The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

joe sz

They built businesses, homes, enrolled their children in local schools, and in all was a boom to the local economy. To the “locals” and the small political machine active here, we were the “Mexicans comin’ to town.” Church Universal n Triumphant/Gardiner, MT http://www.islandparknews.com/obit.php?s...

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D, that is what Prof Ben Zablocki calls an "exit cost", ie, one cost of exiting a cult that encourages belief in and development of psychic powers is that those same beliefs will come back and bite you when you contemplate leaving the cult. Works like a charm. Nearly every cult leader mana...

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Even in fundamentalist Christian cult circles the preacher will use the example of Ananias and Sapphira http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_and_Sapphira who died suddenly after lying about what wealth they had to share with the community, to induce phobias into naive "born agains." Iow, d...

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this psychic power thing is not so much about the RSE members getting them but JZ getting them to believe that Ramtha can use psychic power on them: "I will bring you down." :lol: The underlying fear in New Age cult members is that psychic stuff is real and manageable by skilled sorcerers....

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When religious beliefs become evil: 4 signs April 28th, 2013 By John Blake , CNN (CNN) – An angry outburst at a mosque. The posting of a suspicious YouTube video. A friendship with a shadowy imam. Those were just some of the signs that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, accused of masterminding the Boston Marathon...

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I never met Joe personally but I felt deeply connected to his story and him through EMF.
May he rest in peace. His burden to help his family falls on the living now through his inspiration.

joe sz

Freud would have had a field day with 'hollow earthers'.
'Yes, and tell me more about what you see 'down' there"

joe sz

recall Ramtha's early 1980s teaching about the Hollow Earth? ramtha indicated that there was an entry to it that Admiral Byrd found. http://endtimeprophecy.net/Articles/hollow-1.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth and check this out: http://www.hollowearthnetwork.com/page/476927798 Zorra ...

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this snippet is a window into the debate between a liberal and (surprising for Maher) realistic pov about the core beliefs of Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjwMWfWnd1k

Joe

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I met and interviewed this fellow that channels "Zoosh" and other mind puppets in late 1980s when he was in Santa Fe My impression was "delusional" about his claimed powers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPOdkZv8Xns http://benevolentmagic.com/about.php http://www.youtube.com/wat...

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PS: Batiste is the white bearded guy with balding head and glasses walking and bowing to the Indian guru in some of the pics in the video. Uploaded on Oct 29, 2006 This shows pictures of the Bengali saint Sri Prahlad Chandra Brahmachari (1900-1982) and various people associated with him, including t...

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newshoes... wow, 26+ years! stop now and then on a pretty day, close your eyes and breath. At that moment you are as alive and good as anyone on earth...I hope you can find some humor also---it is good medicine I have worked with groups from equally abusive cults that had decades in. ONe session I r...

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freemysoul I agree that JZ deserves all the blame she can get for infecting her devotees with diseased information but do not give her too much credit. She is not THAT bright or clever :roll: JZ is a speck, one 'viral meme' in the historical milieu of bogus gurus with ideas that support purely selfi...

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several articles http://search.burlingtonfreepress.com/sp?aff=1100&skin=&keywords=ramtha here is an excerpt from Alril 18, 2013 RUTLAND — Malcolm “Mac” Parker and Louis J. Soteriou, partners in the doomed “Birth of Innocence” movie project, were together again on Thursday, but not in a way e...

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Sunshine, you bring up a good point. very simply put there are 2 types of people attracted to harmful cults: Those that are attracted to the mission statement as true and those who sense a reflection of themselves as grandiose, entitled, and powerful. I know there is a mix of both in all of us in cu...

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DAVID ET AL AND JERRENE. I have no idea who you are Jerenne. You sent me this earlier: Lee Harris can be saved and I will do it. Shame on all of you for your unforgiving nature. THAT my jszmhart will keep you in the very hell you hope to escape. There is only love. That is our only true nature. Jerr...

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http://www.millon.net/taxonomy/index.htm this site offers an approachable taxonomy or overview of personality traits and why certain people fall under categories like narcissist, anti-social, or histrionic. Many cult leaders have anti-social traits, but I have known others that are basically schizot...

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for a synopsis of ascended master groups see: http://www.theosophiaistheway.com/Being_IAM/ISIS/Sponsored_org.html . (DEAD LINK) [Ramtha not mentioned] but the suicide of Innocente is 1958 - Mark Prophet splits off from Bridge to Freedom and founds the Summit Lighthouse, sponsored by El Morya. 1961: ...

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No reason to speculate what might happen with RSE. Every concerned person/parent of a cult member wonders if that cult will go the way of Manson, Jonestown or Heaven's Gate. Group generated homicide and suicide are the rare exceptions among the thousands of similar cults on the map. Suicides of a le...

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by age 40 and before, as I recall, JZ already had an 'up and down" weight gain problem. But of course, she was cute in her younger years, a 'head turner, voted 'prettiest girl' in high school. Looks like that can increase self image issues unless the personality driving it sustains a strong rea...

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I think the article may have been referencing an old 1984 video but it is a poorly researched article overall.

tall, slender, blond woman in front of them. Dressed in a starched white Oriental tunic over gray sweat pants and sneakers, J.Z. Knight, 40,

tall? slender?

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shocked I think this is a desperate pr campaign. no one with a sane mind outside her cult believes her anymore. I doubt she will ever be invited to appear on the likes of even hyper-liberal shows like Larry King Live again. In the past Judith could rely on the fact that few people out there give a s...

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just read this self-serving blurb by jz on yelmonline. (my response below): "Published: Friday, April 19, 2013 5:20 PM PDT I was born March 16, 1946, in Roswell, N.M. My parents, Charles and Helen Hampton, were migrant field-workers — cotton production, irrigation, hoeing, and cotton-picking fo...

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I posted for that reason, Ock. As silly and dumb this guy Prescott seems, that is equally how silly and dumb outsiders see JZ Knight/Ramtha. I know it is hard to take from experience. I recall one ex-member of CUT, Greg Mull who successfully countersued the leader say of Elizabeth Prophet among cult...

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I was researching script for someone's screen play when I came across this bozo bonkers spirituality site: http://www.in5d.com/blue-light-to-bring-christ-consciousness.html by Gregg Prescott, M.S. Gregg Prescott was behind the movie 2012: http://www.paganspace.net/group/2012awareness/forum/topics/20...

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here is the article in case link goes down: "If you take just a sip of beer, and moments later—before you’ve had close to enough alcohol to get intoxicated, perhaps even before the beer has hit your stomach—feel a distinctly pleasurable sensation, it might not be strictly due to subtle aromas t...

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OOPS...i THOUGHT THE ABOVE POST MEANT jzr WAS "TAKING A BREAK" btw, those newly in recovery, if you have not read it, get Take Back Yoru Life by Lalich and Tobias, 2 women who were in very different cults when younger for 10 years. Mady Tobias is a therapist and Janja Lalich is a professor...

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http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/04/merely-a-taste-of-beer-can-trigger-a-rush-of-chemical-pleasure-in-the-brain/?utm_source=smithsoniansciandnat&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=201304-science insight into how quickly a sip of wine or beer can change your brain's chemistry. Some peo...

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could mean anything, 'taking a break for judyZrrrr' may be fixing a funky face lift, going to a secret celebrity sober house, reorganizing her wealth into off-shore accounts, hiding from the press or paraparazzi [sp], ..who knows.

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Shocked If Truth is universal, then jzramtha may have expressed it somehow but so have thousands of other sources including science, Aristotle and Peanuts cartoons. The question is "How well and how relevant was the expression?" I know in my case, the more I educated myself over the years,...

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Hope your journey gets stronger and easier. When certainty is challenged, cult members tend to either ignore the evidence or at best fall into cognitive dissonance which can be painful and anxiety producing. The tendency is to fall back into the comfort of set belief patterns to avoid dissonance. On...

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Rooster. I think that is the cliche: "the answers". A good philosopher does not seek "the answers". Good philosophers/seekers strive to refine the questions and to explore better answers, not THE ANSWERS. Same holds true for major religious scholars if you read them. If someone c...

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I still struggle too but it is more fun than when I first left the cult in 1980. What I mean by that is that I work within models of belief that I find "plausible." In sociology (as I told a client recently) humans find stability or sanity due to "plausibility structures" or PS.....

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think about doing small selfless things for others..it helps reverse all the "love myself" bs RSE instilled...
I know when i left CUT in 1980, some of the most healing things I did when possible were simple even anonymous acts of assistance or kindness..on the job or off

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Hi Shocked. I've read all your posts. I used to communicate with Jan Groenveld [when she was alive] who started Cult Aware in Australia. Some of you have seen this I think, but it is a good outline by Jan for structuring a recovery from cult harm. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/articles/recovery.html...

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Ethics: "If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud"

http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/

Been reading Taleb's 2004 book The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable

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Vegans and druids to gain workplace rights under new equality rules The Telegraph April 7, 2013 Victoria Ward A document published for employers by the Equality and Human Rights Commission suggests that ecologists could ask to be excused from duties that increase CO2 emissions, such as flying to bus...

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and I've been on the witness stand both defending myself twice and as a witness at least 6 times since 1987 re cult issues. It always feels awkward, an unnatural way to communicate...

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Judge didn't do that, but he did criticize a few comments made by the non-former RSE members (Szim, Keay, and Adams) In my case i think the judge was right. I used unecessary legalese in my declaration (on purpose). As I mentioned on EE, the judge had to inform both sides that he is the judge [not ...

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NEVER SAY NEVER...I have been checking in to read posts on EMF since I joined EE late in December. I decided to post again due to the ongoing litigation and knowing that I am on a subpoena list---I have not been served. I am also encouraged to see more new ex-members coming forth. I will be posting ...

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Thanks for replying, David. I wanted to wait for your response as a courtesy before I say anything more. No need to respond to this, but I recall that radio show--I wish we had a transcript--but I thought Ross's question came later in the interview when he asked me what we can do about cults in gene...

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Any well meaning group designed to help expose destructive practices is okay in my book. The argument of first exposing the destructive practices in your own back yard (organized religion) seems prudent to give the ICSA credibility. Maybe if they DID discuss the problems with the CC or the Jewish f...

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V thanks for your considerate response. my sense is that David like so many others burned by cultic abuse by any name seek some kind of legal or social remedy to stop the cult madness and spare others the "rabbit hole-mad hatter-queen of hearts" experience. Unlike Alice, ex-cult members di...

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From my personal experience and perspective I see red flags flying over the ICSA. not sure i want to get into this here w you again David. Your "experience" with the Catholic Church [per that dreaded thread] had "red flags" all over it too--Dr Langone is "Catholic", an...

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Sad Grandad..

I guess I'm just an old fogey. Who the heck is Justin Bieber?

think Elvis Presley star power with teens half a century later as a Hip-Hop star. Only JB has better moves.....and he plays a good game of basketball as evidenced when celebrities played pros last year for a charity...

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comet Kohoutek was used by Children of God cult leader Moses David Berg as a herald of endtimes in 1974. In 1973, David Berg, founder of the Children of God, predicted that Comet Kohoutek foretold a colossal doomsday event in the United States in January 1974. Children of God members distributed Ber...

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once upon a time when I was culted in CUT, the entire group fed off of "ideas of reference" of the leader and remained paranoid. "Ideas of reference" is a term used for delusions that people with schizophrenia have. Sharing these ideas of reference with a cult leader is called a ...

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Ramtha's most dangerous enemy is the mirror. ...

What does "he" see

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re children growing up in cults I am reviewing a new e-book for ICSA written by a former Hare Krishna member, Nori Muster http://www.amazon.com/Child-of-the-Cult-ebook/dp/B006DM8TVG there are many parallels with what ex-RSE write on EMF about the child abuses in RSE.. it seems the civil authorities ...

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No contract can be legally binding if the conditions of the contract cannot be properly understood at the time of signing or are sufficiently vague - how can a new participant possibly sign away their right to sue in the event of injury or otherwise as a result of participating in field exercises a...

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perception can fool you

http://richardwiseman.wordpress.com/video-and-audio/

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"Before I knew it, I was caught up. It's far easier than people think," she says. Thus at the age of 58, Marshall left the east and moved to Washington to pursue her studies of Ramtha. It was a decision that cost her two years and approximately $30,000 in savings. As Marshall's involvemen...

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most and perhaps all legal cases involving harmful "cults" will not allow use of the C word in a hearing or trial. here is a prime example: Amish beard-cutting defendants in Ohio ask judge to ban references to cult or clan at trial Washington Post By Associated Press August 13 | Updated: T...

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excellent posts...even the one who is bored by all this :D On the closing ceremony of the Olympics last night it featured a giant white face of John Lennon in the mid point of the theater floor with his trademark wire rimmed lenses, staring at the sky "above us only sky" a line from his no...

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PS: Abuse within the RCC is no exception, yet you are not holding the same standards to your own religion on EMF. I hold the RCC to higher standards than I do for RSE-like cults. There are much larger, ongoing historical and theological problems. The comment is way off base. Define your standards an...

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Please no more of these tests! This has proved to be an exhaustive and destructive topic for EMF and the moderators OK....if you want to drop this. I found it to be more than necessary as a certain rigidity remains in many ex-members re religion in general. I found that that rigidity is partially w...

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Given Joe’s standpoint as a devout Catholic it is understandable his reluctance to personally explore cults and abuse within the RCC on EMF. However, as stated in our EMF posting guidelines: I reread this note that reveals a severe misunderstanding by moderator(s). I have NO reluctance to explore c...

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David,
OK: I pasted it under "Constriction" thread

so please delete the one above. still a bit confusing--I was also trying to post it to a thread that remains locked
I am beginning to feel like a driver with a virus in my GPS

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to keep this thread on track re my point about constriction....now moved to another thread why RSE is different than RCC or a constricted cult different than a major world religion this interdenominational meeting was started 25 years ago by a pope. who would/could JZ invite to her powwows? http://w...

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david, robair virginia and moderators thanks for coming to a decision re the scary CC thread :roll: I notice that it is now locked. :-? but seriously, the last long post I lost in cyberspace concentrated on the idea of constriction and why that is not only at the heart of what I was getting at when ...

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I just posted an extensive systemic clarification regarding constriction to help the discussion on a previous thread "All things EMF": Joe's Catholic cult... and it appeared to go to "Off Topic" suddenly when i hit submit, then it just disappeared, no where to be found. Until fur...

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Virginia, THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTS :-) do not be hard on your self. these matters of "belief" are long term issues that become more and more subtle the longer one immerses oneself in them. My hunch so far is that David, yourself, Robair and others find it difficult that a "cult expert...

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Also I think the initial thread was misleading. It implied there was going to be some debunking of the Church going on and instead it was an advertisement V, if you or anyone actually think that this is the case, you may be reading into my comments and not merely reading. I brought up the RCC as pe...

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Thanks Robair. I did not listen to the entire interview but I got the same drift you indicated:Simone reminded me of Larry King whose tendency with freaky guests like JZ was to maybe ask a few tough questions but then drop the issue after just one answer....thus psychics were always willing to be on...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjNuf2RgDDU&feature=fvsr anyone hear this radio interview? took place in 2011, I think, but posted in 2012. JZ appears around minute 45, 49 talks about imaginary friends/voices she heard as a kid, 51 1st Ramtha contact in 1977 story. etc. What the Bleep film also c...

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good questions re tolerance for new sects--same issues in Zambia as in US and elsewhere... Zambia: New Religious Sects: Cults or 'Churches'? AllAfrica.com 2 August 2012 THE emergence of numerous religious sects in our country is one phenomenon that has generated debate amongst the public and within ...

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If we are to maintain credibility in our positions as "cult busters" we must be totally objective without agenda. I do not have an agenda to keep people from religion, my partner and Joe do not have an agenda to get people into a religion- but there is a credibility problem here. Playing ...

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Rooster this is one area, sex, I never truly grasped with RSE. maybe someone can summarize :?: was there not some issue with JZ?R and homosexuality or homosexuals joining the group at one stage :?: In CUT as with most Theosophical cults, sex was a BIG issue. The Theosophical Society view stemmed mai...

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:D welcome back, D. you were quite 'tame' during this interview 4 years ago. but I think good point re "anger" that can mean a variety of things: annoyance, antagonism, choler, displeasure, exasperation, fury, ill humour, ill temper, indignation, ire, irritability, irritation, outrage, pas...

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W.E. the principle for Christian prayer, judgment, self-evaluation, forgiveness stems from the saying: Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I AM. (Matt 18:20) This comes from an ancient Jewish and tribal law that requires 2 or more witness to properly judge a crime or event. Recall that ...

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Teach me, O, Lord, to serve Thee as Thou deservest, To give and not to count the cost, To fight and not to heed the wounds, To toil and not to seek for rest, To labour and not to seek for any reward, save that of knowing that I do Thy will. w.e. That Ignatius quote cuts to the core of the problem o...

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tax exempt fraud? Peter J Reilly , Contributor Forbes 7/14/2012 IRS Scientology "Thirty Years War" - Village Voice Legal Expert Argues "Treaty" Is Unconstitutional The Katie Holmes – Tom Cruise divorce has brought Scientology into the news. I read a lot more tax decisions than ce...

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This was included on the j z rse website above: “If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein’s 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a “cosmic constant” and that nothing in the universe can travel faster.” Read more from UK’s Telegraph. Ramtha spoke...

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ps: folks get burned when the coals are not properly prepared or burned down well enough, when too many bits are not in an ashlike state. Somebody on duty f'd up at his workshop.....

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Kensho to extend your accurate observation hot wood coals are POOR conductors of heat, thus there is a porous airy quality that allows for a split second of comfort before stepping off. The moisture barrier is important, thus walking on a damp lawn helps but this is NOT necessary as skeptics in Indi...

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Robair thanks for adding your history. as to your point that most people come from a base religions: In 1983 the Jewish community reported that fully 1/8 of that generation of Jews in the US had joined cults---that is an amazing number. No wonder that it was the Jews that set up the first cult clini...

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Robair I wish David well re surgery--no fun, to be sure. My position that some questions are too personal is just that. It does not mean I am offended by the personal questions. I took no offense. The problem is negotiating what is relevent as an answer. But if questions degrade into ad hominem atta...

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Kensho
subconsciously I think I was hoping to avoid emails...

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hope anyone reading this thread isn't getting a headache :shock: ....some ex-members struggle mightily with religious issues and the validity of any organized religion, resisting with all their instinct to taste of that poison again in any form or label.....I know I did. The CC is the most imposing ...

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sorry, I could not edit the repeat copy above

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bzzzzzzzzz..is that a fly or a hornet :?: or just another curious mind at work, David :?: yes, I took some questions as too personal [thus meaningless to anyone outside my self and wife] but I will offer responses as i see fit. I purposely started this thread to ferret out the quality of anti-cathol...

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postd on: http://jszimhart.com/blog/quantum_ramtha Time master? The following are notes I made that address several mistaken notions common to New Age or neo-occult believers in this 2008 article, an interview with Judith “JZ” Knight, a psychic and medium for the trademarked entity called Ramtha. An...

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W.E.

not sure if that is compliment...some of us artistic types continue to move in the cloud of unknowing
no matter how hard we try to stay in our shoes....

used to be one of my favored books
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing

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I would appreciate a more personal opinion/reflection and insights of your CC journey :idea: Otherwise it seems to me these issues just become swamped with intellectualism, causing our search for answers, meaning and healing from cultic abuse on EMF to silently exit stage left..... David thanks for...

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ex I get your point as to style of participation in RSE with some catholics People are people whether they are in piss-ant cults or extended world religions I agree: anarchy has never worked as a solution to human affairs except to tear down a corrupt ruler or assuage an adolescent rebel in his own ...

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D I have not seriously tracked either of these catholic cults. The Palmerians have gone through some phases already--depends on the new leader but old criticisms still remain as indicated in links above: Criticism Controversial practices which are not part of traditional Catholic devotion have been ...

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This from a paper I published about Church Universal & Triumphant in an ICSA Journal in 2002: During the hectic preparation for the Dark Cycle (1987-1990), hundreds of foreign devotees were worried about how they might stay safe. Suddenly, American CUT members “courted” and married foreigners. T...

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unwise question, Grasshopper.

just eat the cake

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good points Of course, accepted social standards and practices often change, as do the standards and practices of new religions as they develop: today’s cult sometimes becomes tomorrow’s established religion. Being called a “religion” is social seal of approval; being called a “cult” is a social sca...

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more on Divine King principle in human evolution: If anyone has been following the Penn State debacle regarding sex-abuser coach Sandusky and the recent [yesterday] published opinion as to weather Joe Paterno [Joe Pa] was truly an accomplice or enabler, the news was a harsh judgment on Paterno's gia...

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O et al

It is not about 'making the chocolate cake appear'

It is about Being One with the Cake.....
ask Sensei David since he was enlightened on his 60th birthday

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07/12/2012 The Washington Post Cults tell us so much about ourselves By Mathew N. Schmalz Cults are back in the news. There’s the TomKat divorce and renewed popular portrayals of Scientology as a “cult.” Established religions also have their “cult-like” qualities. For example, the Catholic congregat...

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You're supposed to be a Christ on the verge of ascension after 7 years. You should be able to move one little paper clip or remotely view a card by now. GOOD POSTS, Seriously! magical thinking is pervasive among many people into any religion and spirituality. in most cults it becomes the rule rathe...

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Robair We were in Old Town Montreal daily. feels like old European city in many ways, great place to stroll, eat, people watch. My wife and 2 daughters saw Cirque du Solei "Amaluna" there, bought cheap seats day before but got lucky when host resat them in most expensive seats. Montreal is...

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Robair Bonjour I am in Montreal for the ICSA conference..going well. Brought my wife and 2 daughters to enjoy the city--magnificent jazz festival and good food, shopping, etc. Hillary brought in Jean Houston who is an old exponent of human potential movement and trance states using mythological jour...

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yes, dittos David

May the cake be with you!

joe

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In the Congressional spotlight, Kevin Garvey, an authority on cults and training, evaluated the May training programs and concluded that May “uses its training to deceptively impose a religious and spiritual conversion on people from whom its intent is initially kept secret” (Hearings, 1996, p. 817...

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if some wild kid threw a rock at the back of JZ's head while she's channeling Ramtha and struck her, her perception of quantum fields could not change the bloody bruise left behind, even if the kid hid from her view behind the Yelm property wall. There is a bigger picture here addresed in Prophets F...

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I think you nailed it, K. Dr L Jolyn West, head of psychiatry instruction at UCLA before he died, was perhaps the most vocal opponent in his field against Scientology. he "paid" for it by being labelled the most evil man in the most evil "cult" in the universe :!: Co$ hated him a...

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Thanks for reply, Kensho It seems we've gone away from the main topic, unless someone wants to continue with comments re "catholic cult." To summarize, McNamara's 2 vol study: It helps us place RSE and JZ in a specific category of a "demon possessed" religious activity. Ch 2, Vol...

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Mormons quit church in mass resignation ceremony By Jennifer Dobner Sat Jun 30, 2012 SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) - A group of about 150 Mormons quit their church in a mass resignation ceremony in Salt Lake City on Saturday in a rare display of defiance ending decades of disagreement for some over issu...

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well, I finished McNamara's (2011) 2 volumes on Spirit Possession and Exorcism. the 2nd volume ends with a 20 page reitieration of the Roman Catholic rite of exorcism that the author places squarely as similar to the early, preChristian rites from Zoroastrian and pre-Neolitic times. w/o elaborating ...

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-Moderator Comment- This new topic has been split from Joe's main thread: Catholic Church Cult . Thank you Joe, Kensho . _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Kensho thanks for response I can think of dozens of channlers since the Th...

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Thanks for responses, and please forgive my spelling--I still have no clip/edit icon that appears on my posts... Since followers of a religion or cult tend to believe a spiritual leader's take on the spiritual or possession experience; whether or not it is truly experienced or has been intentionally...

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PS McNamara's point is that we are hardwired thru evolution to instinctively respond to possession activity as if it were real, whether it is real or not as we can know it. When the divine king is devalued, cultures turned to human and animal sacrifices as did the Jews in there Temple after the King...

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Kensho, "long, deep history indeed! :-) Similarly, the more recent adoption of Tibetan Buddhism pretty much requires some concurrent study of the Tibetan language and culture. This is despite the fact that my current affiliation is with a Western, English language based organization of the Nyin...

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opus dei this is what I mean by a "pitfall' or controversial cult behavior within a tradition. The last pope, John-Paul2, pushed early canonization or sainthood for the founder of OD (now Saint Josemaria Escriva), something I and many CC folk think was a mistake. The CC is LOADED with these con...

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V thanks for your reply.. Your insight underlines my caution to all ex-members I work with--stay away from any well-organized church or group for some time. Too many triggers. Any world religion, unless one is born and educated in it, is a very demanding leap for an adult to join. It is like learnin...

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let me clarify something here. cults like RSE with maybe thousands of members of varying degree or less and a small core staff with living leader cannot easily be compared one-one to a vastly corporate and world class religion. No one religious sect has more members on the planet the the CC. @ 1.2 b...

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ps: Virginia one note: I am also an "ex-member" of a large cult CUT that borrowed much from Roman Catholicism by channeling many of the saints along with Theosophy's "masters" and sundry other gods and entities from world religions. CUT like RSE always had more and more things to...

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v your points are common ones made about CC behavior. I will address a few as best I can... again, I am making no apology [as in apologetic] .. I do not recruit anyone--there are too many triggers in the CC for most ex-cult members to handle even if they felt attracted to the "mission statement...

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David, ex. this is where the C word [cult] becomes problematic---it means too much and covers a wide variety of definitions. By the wide definition, all religious and devotional behavior is cultish. What we are talking about really is deception, self-deception, delusion, greed, abuse, thought reform...

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-Moderator Comment- Given Joe’s standpoint as a devout Catholic it is understandable his reluctance to personally explore cults and abuse within the RCC on EMF. However, as stated in our EMF posting guidelines: ** Rules For Posting ** EMF is generally not concerned about theological issues but inst...

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Also Joe even though I appreciate you debunking so much new age crap that's out there you may want to start in your own back yard. I find nothing to be as big a cult as the catholic church. :-) I can appreciate all your concerns about the Catholic Church, who "Jesus" really was, and about...

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update: new website link to essay on Geis acting cult

http://jszimhart.com/theater_cult

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I was met with "that's your problem master", "do you have a problem with drinking?", "if it annoys you then it is all about you!". UKgirl this is precisely what is wrong with the blame-the-victim-based totalist cult. There are many ways to disprove this and here is one...

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David..."break noted" UKgirl, please do not feel undone by anything written here--not personal. However, ideas in the form of beliefs and scientific claims are fair game for discussion. Lipton crossed over to becoming another new age prophet when his "science" failed to impress h...

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UKgirl Hope this does not burst any bubbles, but I am a guy with a pin ;-) I reviewed this book by Bruce Lipton in 2009 for amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1C6B8ZB1KZJHM 29 of 34 people found the following review helpful the cell gods, January 19, 2009 By Joe P. SzimhartThis review is from...

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Hi UKgirl! I can recommend a few things that you do for very little investment save your time. give yourself time to absorb the picture that unveiled itself for you. Most of us on this forum have been there where you are in one way or another. I was not a RSE member but part of a much larger ascende...

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merci, delavie this vivekananda is a self-starter inspired by ramtha writings and the Pyramid Spiritual Society http://www.pssmovement.org/joomla/index.php Brahmarshi Patriji, founder of Pyramid Spiritual Societies Movement (PSSM), realized the power of meditation through his own profound experience...

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this is a 1990s article that addresses spirit possession and amnesia,,, It also became clear that not only could all Haitians be possessed, but that almost all who participated at Voodoo ceremonies and desired the experience had been possessed at least once in their lifetime. And there were several ...

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WELCOME SARATTE re ramtha should be able to speak in any language to anyone's "brain/mind" if "he" is "unlimited"--or in the very very LEAST, since "he" is an ascended master among a host of ascended entities from any number of cultures and language groups, Ra...

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EX Dyer relies on mass appeal or hundreds of thousands that may buy his products, thus does not need to bleed individual devotees for cash like JZ. Dyer also arranges 'tours' to spiritual sites with over a hundred attending. I would think he brings in far far more cash than JZ. Dyer has been at this...

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Thanks Ockham. there is a casual interview with Dyer and Oprah on OWN. http://www.oprah.com/own-super-soul-sunday/Dr-Wayne-Dyers-Surgery-from-John-of-God-Part-1-Video Dyer is at his plush home in Hawaii. he describes his remote healing experience with "John of God" who treated Dyer from ba...

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I watched a portion of public TV this morning that featured 'Dr' Wayne Dyer, a popular spiritual leader. Dyer often appears in concert with folk like Eckhart Tolle, Marianne Williamson, Jean Houston, Brian Weiss [of reincarnation fame] actor Jim Carey, Oprah Winfrey, TM product Deepak Chopra, and so...

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:!: At his trial Verbard admitted that he had lied when he claimed that the Virgin Mary appeared to him in visions and claimed to have cut all links with the cult’s several hundred members. Cult leader jailed for prison escape by helicopter Saturday 02 June 2012 By RFI The leader of a cult on the Fr...

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Sad Grandfather, this is still not a bad rule of thumb I think: In my younger days, I was told to "believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see", but that was before Photoshop and video religion is more a state of quality than quantity in the end. no religion can quantify "...

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thanks for link..will see this if it gets to our area. the conclusion is iffy: "greatest lesson any guru can teach" no true guru would fake anything at anytime, and most devotees believe that instinctively, thus only a pathological liar will convince and fool hopeful devotees over a long p...

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Ockham...thanks for your insights on this important issue. If I may, I want to comment on Even the Catholic Church, a favorite target of JZ Knight's diatribe, conducts continuing scholarly research and engages in at least some critical introspection. actually, for centuries the Catholic church has e...

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ps: That Krippner statement above also ignores how common the phenomena associated with JZ Knight and Ramtha are in Western culture. Our 'Bible-belt' preachers continually enter trance states while preaching, suggesting that they are 'inspired' or seized at these special moments by the Holy Spirit, ...

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In these non-Western cultures, the phenomena associated with JZ Knight and Ramtha most likely would be honored, admired, and put to use by the community for purposes of divination, counseling, and healing. It would be a gross misinterpretation of our data for the research participants to be patholo...

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ahem.... :lol: I read this study/report before. Note that the "scientists" were aware that no control using "actors" to replicate the JZ Knight result was done: That has been my criticism all along..."acting" has not been ruled out, thus neither has fraud, or a form of ...

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reminds me of photo ops cult leaders Sri Chinmoy [w pope, prem Gorbechev] and Yogi Bhajan [w Clinton] used to arrange with clueless world leaders, then use these images as PR.

but good for the granddaughter--she got to greet a president--good memory save for what stands behind her--

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CAN POSTS BE RATED AS TO NUMBER OF HITS

or views

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'karma' in this context appears to stand in for 'like' but karma is a loaded word with all kinds of new agey connotations, as if by voting one is handing out praise or failure, or thumbs up or down. In the Colliseum of old Rome the thumbs down meant slay the loser, and thumbs up [like in facebook] m...

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preeatenna

perhaps what we are really seeing in RSE is an ancient "Punch" reincarnated as Ramtha to continue the "Punch & Judy Show" known to the Neanderthals.

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that "spell" is common to cult members. the hypnotic state can be defined as focussed attention with peripheral awareness diminished. eg, in "guided meditation" someone might "guide" you through a journey to all the planets in the solar system with very descriptive, eve...

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Robair In reaction to O'Neal's lawsuit, Smith's attorney filed an anti-SLAPP motion to dismiss the suit. The motion, which is meant to protect individuals sued for exercising their constitutionally protected rights, will go before a judge on May 21. what jz/r and other cultic groups have to consider...

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Oregon mom sued by church over online criticism May 16, 2012 By Becky Bratu, msnbc.com An Oregon mother of seven is being sued for defamation by her former church over critical comments she made online. Julie Anne Smith, a stay-at-home mom who home-schools her children, said church members began sh...

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good points O.. of course, on second thought...a dangerous proposition in Ramthaland to have 'second thoughts'...any extreme or indulgent behavior creates the opposite effect desired unless it is truly regulated [religious]. eg, one can have the emotion to play piano and start pounding the keys unti...

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tis is a blog by someone [lindsbo] that lives in Olympia area from 2009 that has a video of jz/r expounding on emotion, ten commandments, etc while smoking a pipe. http://ridiculoushuman.blogspot.com/2009/01/ramtha-knows-best.html I may be recycling this video but the 'pseudo-accent' JZ uses reverts...

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this 'poetic rant' is from 2000 when the Lisa McPhearson Trust was still functioning. Jaime Kennedy admits he inherited his manic-depressive traits from his con-artist greatgrandfather, L Ron Hubbard. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3755748244736332767# this is a cleaned up, recent NPR versi...

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New Mayan records ruin the 2012 end-of-the-world theory Hamilton Spectator Malcolm Ritter Thu May 10 2012 Archaeologists have found a small room in Mayan ruins where royal scribes apparently used walls like a blackboard to keep track of astronomical records and the society's intricate calendar some...

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mentioned this a long time ago on emf in her 2nd fanciful autobioagraphical tome, Shirley MacLaine, reported that in the early 1980s when she was a "student" of Ramtha, she would pay $1000 per half-hour for personal sessions with JZ as R and R would offer red wine which they would drink to...

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re the no gender thing keep in mind that Scientology claims that Buddhism is closest to what they teach, then keep in mind that Blavatsky and Olcott, the Theosophical Soc. founders, took 'pansila' or 5 vows to become Buddhists at end of their careers. Of course, Buddhism in Theosophy is a hybrid tea...

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this 'transgender' person Kate B finally revealed s/he was in Scientology in new memoir and on national tv. despite her fame, took her 20 years to get over fear of speaking out about Scientology! A Queer and Pleasant Danger: Kate Bornstein, Trans Scientology Survivor The iconic "gender outlaw&q...

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r
I will be at that ICSA conference also, to present a talk on "intervention," in Montreal. I will try to meet w that person mentioned about who did the research.

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The mind deteriorated even more with each passing year. They think they are brilliant, know secret knowlege, and are enlightened. to me this is a form of pseudo-schizophrenia or a partial shizophreniform disorder: The main symptoms of both schizophreniform disorder and schizophrenia can include:[1]...

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if i may add to Kelku's accurate post.. JZ/R said early on: "I am Christ for you in this age." by default of self-proclamation, ramthaism is the new Christianity. But the question to ask is What kind of Christianity does JZ mean? There are thousands of "constructs" of the Gospel,...

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rooster quite a story you have. no easy answer but if this helps, up to 90% of kids that grew up in high/bizarre demand cults like the Hare Krishna, Children of God, Church Universal and Triumphant, Transcendental Meditation, Scientology, Unarius Society, or World Wide Church of God defect from cult...

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Ockham and all if we look at the 22% of adult Americans (and Turks!) that believe in an armie-get-it-on Armageddon in their lifetime (that's around 40 million people) RSE is a mere drop in the lagoon. With all that superstition among mainly evangelical fundamentalists (and Bible Belt folk) on the ri...

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just in: see the graph: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/02/apocalypse-soon-9-of-canadians-say-world-will-end-in-2012/ Apocalypse soon? 9% of Canadians say the world will end in 2012 National Post Sheila Dabu Nonato, Postmedia News May 2, 2012 Seems a lot of people think the end is indeed, nigh....

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ex I get your idea that in a LOCAL distater like Chernobyl, the governemnts can lie to reuce the panic factor. But we can compare this to the perverbial earthquake scare, you know the one that has California falling into the ocean overnight and the Himalaya sinking into giant pit dragging Nepal alon...

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rooster 99% bogus. you can get drunk on this stuff--I suggest you stop taking it in! I checked maybe 20 conspiracy sites that carry this fukushima radiation phobia. This one is good, because the author finally found one conspiracy nut-site that blames it all on the "Jews" which is the bott...

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bitte schoen I puzzled over that judgemental thingee also as a new age devotee --all I had to do was "read the text" and it all cleared up...duh... ;-) interesting to note how these ideas of judgement and justice were refined in Greek philosophy and the Hebrew scholars 2500 years ago. But ...

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'Nice "Ramtha' touch... to stop you "judging" people. Yes, I agree...David, your instincts were good to diffuse this attacker's 'final solution' judgment of you by exposing his Ramtha powers as a sham... But notice that he wanted to stop you from "judging" RSE devotees and ...

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this woman was "inspired" by an Anthroposophist (Steiner's cult) and an Indian guru who claimed to live on "prana" alone: Swiss woman starved after 'eating' only light 25 Apr 2012 The Local Lyssandra Sears A woman living in the east of Switzerland who believed she could survive o...

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SG that is the most basic question I am asked. the answer is complex, as usual, in matters of the mind. there have been a few incidents of pure deception for fame and money. I work with the mentally ill, as you know, at my "night job" and see all phases of disorders that include delusions ...

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Former Clearwater Scientology leader Debbie Cook settles lawsuit with church Tampa Bay Times · By Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writers Joe Childs Thomas C. Tobin Tampa Bay Times Apr 24, 2012 Only weeks ago, after delivering hours of damaging testimony about the Church of Scientology,...

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ascended master cults [not unlike major religions] are notoriously unstable, tending to splinter before or soon after the founder/leader dies. There was dissension after Blavatsky died, the TS splitting 3 main ways but soon many more "mediums" or channels appeared by 1920. here is a short ...

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in CUT/Summit Lighthouse, in 1979 we had a thick book of hundreds of decrees and affirmations to memorize. The I AM cult had a similar book published in mid-1930s and added to. here is a sample of SU affirmations: I AM life of God-direction Blaze thy light of truth in me. Focus here all God’s perfec...

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CD and others--I posted this notice on video/books thread also that book, 400 years of Imaginary Friends has been out of print for 8 years or more. the authors gave me permission to distribute it to individuals who ask me for it please send me your email so I can forward it no charge--but you can do...

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California Dreamin and anyone I need your email address to send a pdf copy of the book "400 years of Imaginary Friends" that book has been out of print for 8 years or more. the authors gave me permission to distribute it to individuals who ask me for it. no charge for personal use--but you...

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That book '400 Years of Imaginary Friends' by Kenneth Paolini and Talita Paolini (I wrote the forward to it) has been a good resource for many exiting RSE and similar groups. email me if anyone wants a copy... It took the Paolinis ten years of recovery and research before they began writing this. Th...

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good post, Kensho... the stupidity of such "affirmations" is exposed by: I am writing a play better than anything Skakespeare could have conceived. (My published work is generally ignored but one of my poems made it into my high school yearbook) I am composing a symphony that exceeds Strav...

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http://ramtha.com/html/pdf/introduction.pdf this intro to what ramtha is "about" says it ALL. It underscores in spades what I said above. It denies that RSe is a "new religion" or even 'the building blocks of a new church." What happened to the Church I AM???? It says that t...

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do not be too hard on the actress. she was not the only famous hollywood type taken in by ramtha or some other channeled spook over the years. She remains as evidence that one can be an excellent dancer, artist, actor, musician, etc yet remain a philosophical and political ditz for life. ditz: A sca...

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this is from 2004 on shirley's website.

"Hello

Ramatha (sic) has always come through JZ.
Love and Light,
Shirley"

http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encounte ... p?t=190285

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Trance dancing accompanied with music occurs in many religous movements. The Hindu raga and tabla with dancing is primarily a trance--ecstacy format. In Islam, Sufi orders will use 'whirling dervish' as well as a folksy version with loud drumming, marijuana, and head shaking to go into trance and &q...

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TRANCE DANCING, LOUD MUSIC

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I am constantly coming across people like this with seemingly high IQ but no backbone.. Is it she just doesn't give a damn and hides behind intellectualisms so long she gets published? J. Gordon Melton comes to mind. david there is no clear answer as to motivation among scholars. Obviously, to some...

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Bali has long tradition of shamanic trance dancing. the purpose is to 'embody' a god, ancestor, or animal spirit. JZ could have watched this stuff on tv in 1980s. remember to breath normally when you watch these. http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A2KLqINs8YNPSTYAKhH7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBrc...

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w.e. et al: 3 more stories of recent admits here, then I will quit because this is neverending 1. Latino male 24 arrived with police who said they apprhended him at a convenience store. he was scaring the clerk by saying he was the "Antichrist". I had to physically redirect the Antichrist ...

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Many mass training cults like Lifespring used Chariots of Fire music, etc in the 1980s and onward well before JZ did, so again JZK merely "borrowed" an already effective, hypnotic technique

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Co$ is not the only fringe group cashing in on the vulnerable addicts and their families. Services in general are not very good anywhere unless you have good insurance that has not run out for mental health/substance abuse. many Fundamentalist Christian "camps' exist also for addicts. some are ...

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Interesting how Susan Palmer got into the mix. She's influenced by her "trade" and sociological training which is to study the "natives" without disturbing their "culture." She has been doing a longitudinal or decade-long study on the Raelians, for example. I actually f...

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Before It's News ("People Powered News®") is a citizen journalism outfit, where anyone can write something and have it go up. Or at least, that was the intention - it was promptly flooded with conspiracy theorists and is now an outlet for gibbering lunacy. The Skeptical Humanities blog fi...

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KL Good point.... I agree with the connection to Ericksonian hypnosis. The 'so be it' with hack gesture is very much a "trigger" or suggestion to the "subconscious mind" of a believer. To non-believers, the gesture is merely theatrical and even comical. When I point and command m...

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I am smiling :-) I hear this too often from nearly every member of fringe group that outsiders label as weird or cultic. It is the language of 'non-thought' or an easy psychological maneuver to try to spread the blame. Common crooks use this same maneuver to justify thievery and deceit: Everyone ste...

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WE you can't make up what I've seen over the 12 years in psych intake..psychotic patients come in at their worst and sometimes you just have to laugh. However, processing them is a real headache and demanding on staff prior to admission. btw, the "shoe" was a high-heeled tan suede ankle bo...

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Yes, It must be Easter! we just now admitted a new 22 yr old "messiah" at our hospital. "Jesus" was going "to make the world burn on Sunday", so the police brought him in. At same time a middle aged chronic patient brought in by police was holding a bible, kneeling and ...

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The Jerusalem Syndrome: Why Some Religious Tourists Believe They Are the Messiah February 17, 2012 Wired By Chris Nashawaty Edit | Shortly after his 40th birthday , the life of a man we’ll call Ronald Hodge took a strange turn. He still looked pretty good for his age. He had a well-paying job and a...

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yes, 'so be it' is a form of amen but it is more a command or a "seal" as in approved or sent. The I AM cult used "decree" as a form of commanding reality according to a "science of the spoken word" that grew out of the New Thought Movement groups that employ froms of c...

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I was one of the few people in the world that got thrown out of a cult...that's funny stuff...then I went back and paid her again..then the all-loving "ramtha" called me a "whore".. not unusual for devotees to be kicked out of cults. Here is a list of reasons: 1. mental illness ...

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The only thing god cant do is open a closed mind.

thank gawd

at least you can have some control in RSE. In ramthalaland, 'god' can tinker with your mind ad infinitum

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will Pres Obama be inviting JZ to his re-inauguration party then?
Will she come as Ramtha if he is the endorser?
Imagine that

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Holi is perhaps the most popular annual Hindu festival in India But thousands participate every year lately in this color fest in Utah at a Hare Krishna temple. one sign that old controversial cults can reform and settle into the American religioscape http://fox13now.com/2012/03/26/viral-video-2012-...

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this reminds of the day Sri Chinmoy had a small crowd of 50 or so devotees in his weight lifting room to "witness" him nudge or dead lift 7,000 lbs with one arm. yes, I said 7,000. It was hoisted on a rig above his head. many in the audience said they saw it move, thus Chinmoy posted the p...

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some seque here from the explosion article... I have noticed that poltically both parties attract different cult affiliation and support. Rev Moon gave millions to Reagan/Bush causes and many former politicians took huge amounts from Moon to lecture for his private corporate venues. eg, ex-pres Reag...

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ex
I agree. just watched it. recommended.

but "doing good" also demands we grasp the context. eg, Scientology submits leason plans to schools, sends emissaries to help in emergency situations.
what is the agenda? is a good question...is the do-good agenda a mask for something else?

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David, studies done since WW2 on 'groups' [especially by W R Bion (bee-on)] shows that among 'neurotic' soldiers that Bion was studying, he noted that when he broke them up into groups of 4 or 5 and gave them a task to solve, invariably the most sociopathic one was chosen or ended up as the leader. ...

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David, good you posted these. one would have thought after 20/20 in 1988, RSE would have died on the vine, but information gets "buried" unless people do their homework and think rather than 'resonate'. sad. also, thanks for posting the stuff on Sherril McN..she's had quite a makeover from...

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PS: I am inclined to view "breathing" in any yogic fashion as a possible trigger for x-RSE due to all the C&E? has this been a problem for anyone? In CUT and the "I AM" cult, chanting or 'decreeing' was so central that any form of prayer in a group or sing-song rally cry coul...

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outonalimb advice is tough to give and recieve for some recently exited cult members due to questions of authority, making up one's own mind about intimate choices, feeling a need for a secure "plausability structure" (fancy phrase fr sociology re a belief system or 'code to live by'), and...

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I heard posts have "disappeared" lately
just testing

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re Geis: as far as i know, he still operates out of NJ near NYC but with only a one or two 'sex-slave' like yong adult female devotees. Since i did that workshop for his 'acting school' that got 9 of the 12 out, he's been compromised. I keep this webpage, the only thing on the Net that shines any li...

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welcome maroni. Good apple juice with too much arsenic in it is still bad for you. glad to hear that your 'monkey mind' is working well. You figured Ramtha out before severe damage was done to your life :!: I continue to monkey around with esoteric teachings, taking them apart to see what makes them...

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oops--I meant magnetic field, not axis. although, I was thinking of the 'axis mundi' that folklorists mention as the 'center pole' of the world or universe that moves subjectively with the tribe or person. Often, a tribe might set up a pole in a courtyard that becomes the center for the world both s...

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Hi Max. That 'scientific' study of JZ/R has never been corroborated by independent scientists. Judy will not submit to that. The crew that 'tested" her had a bias pro-psi coming in, thus a huge RED FLAG should be waving in your head about any claim made. The team that tested her never compared ...

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you are welcome you are under a rest you have a right to be silent you have a right to speak up anything you say on emf will not be held against you you have a right to avoid RSE students you have a right to imagine Ramtha as a puppet-god in a clown suit with strings attached to the remedied lips of...

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