The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum

joe sz

David, I've hacked at 3 manuscripts for many years...maybe too many :?: Barriers to publication are lack of time to make a really good yet entertaining statement that will appeal to a wider audience, and money for a good editor. There is no money or fame in books of this type--a few authors among my...

joe sz

btw, Creme is a product of the Great White Brotherhood stream of occultists stemming from Rosicrucians through Theosophy, Order of the Golden Dawn, CUT, Ramtha, blahhblahh,blahh.... Creme specifically studied the works of Alice A Bailey, a Theosophist maverick, before coming up with his own revelati...

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sad grandfather... Meccas? maybe Camping will finally submit to Allah and stop pretending to be His prophet 8) my guess is he's recalculating and will emerge with another date...or suggest that God used this as a lesson.. reminds me of Benjamin Creme, who I encountered twice in NM when he was on tou...

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david, david, Have ye not heard that the prayers of the faithful have been used by the hosts on hi to spare you this karma in New Zealand? Have ye not learned the lesson from The Day the Earth Stood Still? As with all good cliff hangers, thy god saves when his hero is at the brink of destruction. Ev...

joe sz

Camping employs 350 or so people in his radio enterprise out of Oakland Calf. average wage, $23,000. fully 80% of his employees or more do not believe in the end time hype and plan to be at work Monday morning. The devotees across the nation and world are another story. Camping's "non-profit&qu...

joe sz

Psss....as a caution, the skeptiko site promotes an idea that some science does and can prove or disprove spiritual experience of out of body/after life awareness without resorting to spiritual or religious faith. I do not completely buy into it religiously or skeptically, thus the tension you sense...

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from Internet radio show: "Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome Joe Szimhart to Skeptiko. Joe is an expert on cults and has been counseling, lecturing, and helping people with cult-related issues since breaking away from a New Age sect in the 1980s. Joe, welcome to Skeptiko. Joe Szimhart: Yeah, glad...

joe sz

Dove, you reminded me of something I observed decades ago with clients and in myself--- the lesson one learns on the path to enlightenment from a deceptive cult leader is that the cult leader is deceptive and not enlightened AND I can be fooled. The true master is one that bows out of the cult after...

joe sz

Vanilla, No one predicted that Heaven's Gate run by Marshall Applewhite would end in ritual, mass suicide but that became a small, closed cult that caused little tension with neighbors at the end, and it had no celebrities to attract much attention to it. The similarity here to RSE/JZ is that the le...

joe sz

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Oom-Improbable-Birth-America/dp/B004KAB528/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305398886&sr=8-1 From Publishers Weekly Eastern spirituality and Western commercialism fuse in this flamboyant tale of an iconic American guru. Journalist Love tells the story of Pierre...

joe sz

May 21 is Judgment Day: Christian group By Janet Davison, CBC News If the signs are to be believed, the end of the world as we know it starts on May 21. Billboards are popping up around the globe, including in major Canadian cities, proclaiming May 21 as Judgment Day. "Cry mightily unto GOD for...

joe sz

The Great Oom: The Improbable Birth of Yoga in America by Robert Love (2010) is a great read filled with fascinating details about the crazy quilt of seekers and gurus during the first half of the 20th Century. This is a bio about Pierre Bernard (born Perry Baker in Iowa in 1876) later dubbed as the...

joe sz

Lost, I no longer believe in prayer magic, those studies you refer to as science suck as far as I see, and even as a catholic [or because I am] I do not see prayer as anything more than communion with the sacred. I won't go in to why but one criticism of this sort of mantra magic or so-called eviden...

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wow, Lost---you read all 13 of Left Behind! Impressive. I could stomach only the first one. Another in that vein is Perretti's "This Present Darkness" which is the 1st of a series that sold well among fundies but not a bad read. It gives an idea how fundamentalists believe prayer works to ...

joe sz

EVERY CULT LEADER that stresses immanent apocalypse uses revelations to create a crisis in the group mind. This works very well to keep all believers anxious, thus easier to manipulate. The fear factor works to increase giving time to workshops and giving more money to leader. The JWs find this form...

joe sz

learn to erase the effects the mothership and the motherf**k*r who put it there... recovery theory engages all the new promising science behind the "plasticity" of the brain....fMRIs and all that show how the brain heals after addiction and after years of constricted cultthink. I still rec...

joe sz

On the other hand you can also be psychotic and see things that aren't there. Hey, Judy?... skilled hypnotists can suggest things to smell, hear, and see that are not there and the compliant client will smell, hear, or see it. a hypnotist can also suggest away something that is there---one video I ...

joe sz

Sai Baba, spiritual guru to millions, dies at 85 New-age icon dies of heart and breathing problems Reputation marred by sexual abuse allegations Jason Burke in Delhi guardian.co.uk, Sunday 24 April 2011 The death of Sri Sathya Sai Baba at the age of 85 from heart and breathing problems has prompted ...

joe sz

There are some parallels to JZR with Claude Verilhon/aka Rael who claims to have been contacted by space ship aliens and "Elohim", now with more than 50,000 followers by some accounts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Vorilhon Dr Susan Palmer has studied this ufo sect since 1987--she's ...

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yes, there was a korean cult led by a woman in the 90s--all 36 committed suicide. another in Australia were "Breatharians" led by a woman and someone died. But most of the more vicious cult endings are led by men. The Church Universal & Truimphant one led by Eliz Prophet was close to b...

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V, I've researched several hundred cult leaders in depth over the years. "Discrepancy" is more the rule than exception in diet, behavior, finances, sexual activity, D&A abuse, etc. The rule for totalist, self-proclaimed gurus goes something like this: You must follow the rules to prote...

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I reviewed this book which is a send up of Festinger's study When Prophecy Fails http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookreviews/bkrev_imaginaryfriends.htm Cultic Studies Review, Vol. 5, No. 1, 2006 Imaginary Friends Alison Lurie Abacus, 1967 original. Owl Publishing Company; New York, NY: Henry Holt a...

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my "art" page is under construction--so more coming soon since i got a studio 2 mo ago at the goggleworks art center---trying to reboot an old career ;-) That painting is one in a line of liturgical pieces I've done---it is going to a show in Dayton OH ....ravens were common during crucifi...

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Ockham, Actually....there were many new spiritual movements already camped as "Gnostic Schools". One I am dealing with now is The Gnostic Movement headed but the controversial Mark Pritchard who calls himself Belzebuub--may have mentioned this in another post. So, i imagine JZ and co. have...

joe sz

Montreal Gazette By JOE SCHWARCZ, Freelance April 16, 2011 He vanished the Taj Mahal. He made a train full of people disappear. He can turn a baby elephant into a horse. He performs to full houses more than 400 times a year, travels with a crew of 75, carries 48 tons of equipment, an elaborate laser...

joe sz

http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/inde ... an_we.html

A good example of fanatical devotion and where it can lead...
joe

joe sz

V...
Geis is still at it around NY/NJ area --a few years ago I exit counseled 8 of his inner cult who left him--he still has control over a few women and a young man, as far as i know. Ramtha's "prediction" was naive...see:
http://www.jszimhart.com/theater_cult

joe sz

CROWLEY WAS A PROLIFIC [SECOND RATE] WRITER AND POET (oops too loud). he was a wastrel, lived for most of adult life on inheritance from a wealthy grandfather, was actually named "the Beast" by his mom when he was a teen due to behavior issues. He had several "Scarlett Women" who...

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Vanilla you made my day :-) Jeff Knight read an earlier version of the same article and he told me in 1990 it was "the icing on the cake" that blew Ramtha out of the water for him. It is nice that someone "thanks jesus" but someone had to sweat through all the info to put that es...

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Cd and Robair et al your dilemma as to what can "I believe" now is so common with ex-members of any cult. One of the other former members groups I assist [as I can--ex-members are all over thw world] is this one----I posted an essay for them: http://www.movementsofgnostics.com/2011/04/11/b...

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even IF JZ/R had made a proper prediction, so what? Look where the sovereign masters end up? A circus in Yelm where they parade to watch the two-headed lady prance around on stage as they perform rituals in the carnival spook house. Yelm is no safer than anywhere else along the firey belt that rims ...

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Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) created an ouvre as "the Beast 666" and the go-to guy for wannabe satanists and practitioners of "Magick"---a word he coined. In a recent, well-researched biography by Lawrence Sutin (2000) [Do What Thou Wilt: a life of Aleister Crowley---483 pages] t...

joe sz

interesting view using the 'black' icons of hinduism and catholics. There are similarities. The general Hindu approach, as I understand it, to religious expression is layered. All layers are considered "real". At one level the gods and deities are real entities, especially to devotional Kr...

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yes, free, it is 'infestation.' that would be what the minister's wife had in my example. but all this is academic. As ex points out, look at the "fruits" of what JZ has wrought. If we examine RSE philosophically according to knowledge conduct governance RSE gets very poor marks. During a ...

joe sz

not sure if what I say here is gospel, but demonic affliction [the Latin is often mistranslated as "possession" but affliction is the proper meaning] can occur in 4 ways: obsession, oppression, ??, or possession. Here is Catholic Encyclop: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12315a.htm Accordi...

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A.D. there is some validity to what you say. According to the literature demons choose to come and go but are more like parasites, that once they settle in, there they stay and thrive until dismissed. In most cases, the individual can heal themselves through prayer and 'fasting' [does not mean starv...

joe sz

there was a time when I firmly believed that it was possible to either be possessed, or be a medium to some other entity. I had always been taught, however, that this was a Very Bad Thing and could comprise the firmly closed door to the soul, lead one into madness, cause problems for future incarna...

joe sz

could the connection here be the same plastic surgery firm?

crazy is as crazy does....

joe sz

the wickram guy may be scum "as it were" in his sexual behavior but that has nothing to do with his crappy "science." “She’s not faking it,” added Dr.Ian Wickram of San Francisco’s Saybrook Institute. “we got results which could not have been manipulated”! "Faking it?" ...

joe sz

The rise of apocalypticism What on earth is the world is coming to? Montreal Gazette By AL KRATINA, Freelance February 19, 2011 The world is coming to an end. Depending on how closely you paid attention in science class, the above statement could either refer to entropy on a massive time scale or a ...

joe sz

good toon! http://news.aol.com/story/_a/thousands-expect-apocalypse-in-2012/20080706152409990001 Experts laugh off these notions. "These prophecies of doom really don't have any basis in what we know about the Maya," said Stephen Houston, an anthropology professor at Brown University and a...

joe sz

there, here, hear. I watched the link you suggested. http://www.youtube.com/user/snake85eater#p/u/28/5sqru4xvNhY I have no idea what it means. Can you explain it for us? People on mental wards are the least 'mind controlled' because their minds are out of control. That is primarily why they are ther...

joe sz

for those who have not seen this, enjoy!
http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2539741

joe sz

Thanks. It does appear Craig is the opportunist, and JZ/RSE is an opportunist on the coattails of New Age 2012 apocalyptic hype. This "new age" dawning of the Age of Aquarius thing or turn of the ages has been around forever. More recently [1890s] the Masons launched a magazine called The ...

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Wiz, To answer your questions, yes 1 and 2 are the same from what I can tell on the website. I do not believe there was/is a personal connection between V V and JZ although a number of RSE folk I knew read the V V Matrix stuff and perhaps JZ also read it. Maybe someone else knows more or better than...

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Wiz I looked over V V Matrix effusionisms many years ago and just looked at what this self-absorbed occultist is doing now--no growth, same old matrix. VV has a fixed delusion that he somehow has tapped into the cutting edge of human evolution and perception. You are quite correct, I think, that his...

joe sz

I can't recall how many times I've lectured about the cult problem. No matter what the audience grouping, be they Mensa conf attendees, Freemasons, Native Americans, Police depts, college students, skeptics organizations, clergy, psych hospital staff---I am asked the same question: What kind of pers...

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that was quick--now the video is deleted!
http://vimeo.com/7993138 as of 3:40 pm today
Joe

joe sz

good points ex.. I read the recent article too. "no, we are not a cult." :roll: because J Gordon Melton, RSE's onetime resident scholar, said there are no such things as cults :roll: [he really did once on tv!] I'm reading a new book "Charles Manson Now" by a male Canadian psych ...

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WE I meant only that There is in that nuisance category. There does not make effort at rational response to criticism---of course I am not referring to a person here but only to posts as presented. I do not know There or if the posts are even authentic in the sense of "honestly, this is how I r...

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SG I agree with you to quash There's impulsive nonsense posts and if s/he needs it I sincerely hope There is helped. We work crisis lines at the psych hospital in my dept among a host of other responsibilities so we get a portion of anxious, drunk or mentally distrurbed callers who abuse the system ...

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;-) There, there is another more sophisticated use of "doubling" developed by Robert J Lifton in his well worth the read book "The Nazi Doctors". Lifton defines doubling as the antisocial behavior of someone who can act benign around his wife, kids and family on one hand then go ...

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Someone who had no idea who Ramtha was until he bought a small desk ornament [pyramid] emailed me about this site. I wasn't aware of it before. http://precisionpyramids.com/ The site promotes RSE: http://www.precisionpyramids.com/pyramidlinks.htm Anyone know who this "Craig" is in lalaland...

joe sz

The Mausoleum is open every day from 10:00 am to 1:00 pm, except Mondays and Fridays. Visitors still wait in long lines to see Lenin's body, for which entrance is free of charge. Visitors are required to show respect while in the tomb; photography and videotaping inside the mausoleum are forbidden,...

joe sz

bluesky, the story you tell of this mother is almost a parody of too many similar stories I've dealt with over the years, with dozens from the ramtha cult. what the husband in this case might experience from the Ramtha wife falls under the category of 'gaslighting'. I just helped a nurse I know reco...

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I think that what Lost does has tremendous value for people ooking to live with meds with some success typo--meant to say "for people looking to live without meds" the studies I've seen re depression show that most patients with clinical depression rise out of depression with or without m...

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thanks oldone. this is both an unwieldy and important topic as WE, Lost and others have so eloquently in their own ways stated. The struggle as i see it has been apparent since the days of Freud and Jung who both tried to use scientific principles to treat clients yet find ways to address metaphysic...

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back on the rails :arrow: The people from RSE that I am acquainted with are quite sane, and I would say the same thing about most people here on EMF. I have to say, I don't believe in DSM either, Joe. All the best, Lost in Space Lost, I get your point but need to address the "faith" issue....

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oldone being in trance, aka entranced, is a state of mind in which peripheral reality and discursive thought are diminished. One can be either deeply focussed or feeling generally diffused [dissociated] but the key is lack of applied reason and questioning. If you notice, stage hypnotists use a rapi...

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this thread is close to going off the rails..... as to orb demons, et al: I tell my clients who believe in/or feel effected by this woo-woo stuff, who believe/experience the dangerous or benign occult powers of their gurus [Satya Sai Baba, Zen Master Rama, for example] that I have been an open criti...

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Someone involved with Ramtha in the earliest days in Richard Chamberlain's house contacted me and sent me audio tapes from 10May1980. Jeff Knight and others i won't mention are on the maybe 2 hours of the session. It has been over 2 decades since I've listened to early ramtha tapes. Sorting the word...

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Lost, you said: I think Ex is right, they only have the power over you that you give them. Not so fast. I think that some of what 'There' is bringing up re hypnosis is accurate. We all can be manipulated to do what is normally against our will or awareness. the S Milgram experiments, Prof Phillip Zi...

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the wiki post on Tod checks out: Todd was arrested in May 1987 for the rape of a University of South Carolina graduate student. After his arrest, he was additionally charged with sexually molesting two children who attended a karate school where he worked. He was convicted of the rape in January 198...

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W.E. "Silent decrees (ribbit affirmations) and spoken decrees (rapid and loud ribbits)" ROFLOL, Joe. So apt. Although I was not a member of CUT, the organisation I belonged to taught us to 'heal' etc, using white light and coloured rays of energy. I remember it well. Only when studying psy...

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I had a colleague in the deprogramming field decades ago who had some brilliant if simple challenges to people who overvalued the power of prayer. He was a Vietnam vet that got caught up in a Bible cult for many years, then broke away with the help of an ex-member. Sadly, he died in the early 1990s ...

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thanks for posting the subliminal "ribbit" list, KL I see how readily JZ and her crew have fallen into basic New Thought patterns. The idea behind new thought and the 'science of mind' movements is that thought itself conditions reality, and not only personal reality but thought with inten...

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I hope you will not mind me quoting here from your review: "faith in God relies on a slim intuition at the borders of our testable reality." Mmmm, yes, I do agree. did i really write that? Some insight must have slipped in... The corollary is that faith implies an awarenes of some kind of...

joe sz

C&C careful, mate. I've been at this cult expose business and helping "others" since 1980. It is easy to get overwhelmed as well as messy. the former because you are entering crazy territory riddled with anti-social personalities, schizophrenia, deceit, and delusion--not to mention rig...

joe sz

let us keep paddling..... marie, I reviewed Lobdell's Losing my Religion on Amazon/if interested scroll down: http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Religion-Reporting-America-Unexpected/product-reviews/B002QGSWGK/ref=cm_cr_pr_link_3?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFourStar&pageNumber=3 I ask...

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JZ/Ramtha and her "Church of the I Am' actually did thrust everyone of you (and me by default) into this discussion on this thread. You all bought into her claim that "Ramtha is Christ for you for this age", an early White Book era teaching. You bought the idea that some big guy with ...

joe sz

god as character could mean what are god's traits? Traditional Islam gives 99 'names' or traits of Allah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam only one is truly harsh, the Avenger. This also comes from Jewish tradition: Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. one post used that old canard o...

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I agree w Oldone: This discussion could be fruitful in the right context. There are many 'christian' related sites on the Net. perhaps Duk and others can join one of them. Those recovering from RSE and similar groups like Prophet's CUT in my case, have special needs. ex-CUT members find catholicism ...

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I sure would like to hear Joe’s take in all of this since he has struggle with it much longer than all of us and seem to have found a place of peace. Oldone Just lost my elaborate answer to this---took too long and the 'submit' kicked it off :-x I'll save this one before trying to post.... An old f...

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GOOD POINT AD---REAL FOOD vs MYSTERY MEAT AND KOOL-AID there was a "back to Blavatsky" movement among Theosophists who were upset with the Besant-Leadbeater-Krishnamurti direction tyhat was embarrassing the TS in the press around 1910-1920, according to Guenon. Leadbeater always had sweet ...

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correction;

Guenon managed to recover from his 7 year stint in Parisian occult circles as a college grad, then, as an "ex-member" get his PhD in math and go on to excel in metaphysics.

he did his thesis in math, on Leibniz---his "theological' doctoral dissertation was rejected.

joe sz

AD I see what you mean about "sameness" but i also see that having that "experience" of oneness is universal. L in Space reports how UUs derive from that Principle to come up with a list of worthy "principles" as do all religions and cults with their codes, mission stat...

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W.E. I'd like to hear others weigh in in this weighty :?: also reminds of a story about the angry Unitarian who burned a question mark on his neighbor's lawn... I guess I am saying that maintaining a position of 'oneness' is innocuous enough as long as one does not move to express it or put it into ...

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W.E. That is the ultimate "conclusion" or cliche that 'we are all one'. Even mathematician Fr. LeMaitre who invented the so-called "big bang" theory called it a "singularity" that all we call the universe emerged from. Blavatsky and her Theosophists claim to represent t...

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W..E.. My inclination after all these years of skeptical application is to continue to accept a 'philosophia perennis' or a 'theosophy' that is behind everything. Jacob Boehme an earlier, idiosyncratic [is there any other kind?] theosophist called it the "Ungrund". Some forms of Deism fall...

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discussing this stuff makes me 'barmy' too sometimes :shock: it is like skating on thin ice imbedded with gravel over a murky lake on Mars....that's a mindfull...sorry ;-) I did get Rene Guenon's [original 1921] book in the mail yesterday and I am well into it. Like revisiting an old eccentric frien...

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btw, WofthesunEofthemoon great limerick about HPB! I still think that "Ancient Wisdom Revived: A history of the Theosophical movement" is one of the best scholarly resources on Theosophy and HPB by Bruce Campbell (1980) I more esoteric, densely written book in French "Theosophy: Histo...

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have not posted lately, moved my household into a smaller, older, needs work home. --even had to reset my password that I forgot. HPB always attracts my attention. The first long research paper I wrote in 1983 after I left CUT/Summit Lighthouse was "Mad B's Myth" at 100+ pages [it was refe...

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btw, I interviewed Gerald Bryan's widow, Olive, in 1982. She said he was a wonderful man, a chiropractor who got caught up briefly with the I AM until he smelled the rats inside the castle. He noted how many spouses were grieved over their mate's breaking up with them because they would not join the...

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sorry bout that, hidesert

my email is
jszimhart@windstream.net
not dot 'com'
my old email still works as well
jszimhart@dejazzd.com

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Psychic Dictatorship in America was published by Gerald Bryan in 1940 under 'Truth Publications'. The book is a collection of a series of monographs or chapters he wrote in the late 1930s to expose the "I AM" Activity cult founded by Guy and Edna Ballard around 1933. It's been out of print...

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there may be "11 dimensions"...who knows. String theory, eg, in physics that attempts to tap into other dimensions is yet in its infancy and may be scrapped by science someday anyway for something more coherent. Skepticism is at the root of all philosophy which exists to refine questions a...

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I heard Blackmore lecture a couple of times at Skeptics conferences. She was one of the rare females to speak or attend these conferences that I estimate as 85% or more male dominated. Another interesting factoid is that most New Thought, New Age, psychic and occult religion participants and leaders...

joe sz

Channeling has, in my view, always been self-talking. Shirley MacLaine, that paragon of popular enlightened self-talk, was highly influenced by jzramthaisms [they did drink redwine and get sloppy drunk together during those expensive ($1000 a half hr?) private sessions per "Dancing in the Light...

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illusionist It seems to me you confuse or equate Ramtha w Ms Knight who as far as I can tell remains a 'student' of the big R and as such has not attained enlightenment, so all her foibles, flaws, inabilities to sustain a naturally youthful face, soured relationships, false advertising in Arabian ho...

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The by now legendary lawsuit Scientology leveled against Time Magazine http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html [CoS lost eventually] set a highwater mark in aggressive cult tactics to silence freedom of press and speech. Here they go again. St Petersburg Times has been report...

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Perhaps we will someday have a similar film for a festival re the RSE experience. Title could be " Vinny wants to Void " or something like that ;-) "Posted by Gina at 2/18/2010 03:10:00 PM "David Wants to Fly" is receiving wonderful reviews at the Berlin Film Festival, per l...

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By Randy Sly > 2/15/2010 > > Catholic Online (www.catholic.org) > > On Friday, six ex-scientologists spoke out about their experiences inside > the Church of Scientology at a Press Conference in Hollywood. > > > > WASHINGTON, D.C. (Catholic Online)  The airwaves of Los Angeles were > buzzi...

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on another thread [scientific test of jz] I posted an example of the protocols that Randi and scientists would require to test a paranormal claim. This also includes the agreement of the psychic to the protocol, of course. I heard Randi lecture once about this protocol. The example he used was the c...

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fyi, setting up proper protocol for testing a psychic or for psychic power is not so easy. To psychics the very protocols interfere with their psychic ability---a copout. eg. I've experienced mediums and channels refusing to perform or failing to read my aura because I was in the room or my energy w...

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Kenny and Debbie seem to think seeing future numbers can make for some good horse racing and roullette +EV gamblings. (as a direct result, in their eyes, from being able to see through the cards). I know over 30 people can now do this. Anyone have a scientific explanation for this? :roll: I'm from ...

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Two days after the tragedy, and presenting themselves as an organisation called National Mental Health Assistance, representatives of the Church of Scientology duped Fox News into running the church's freephone number for five hours on the bottom of the screen, apparently in the belief that it was ...

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Problems with groups like RSE and CoS are the layers of hidden agendas and the bottom line of failing to deliver anything remotely resembling the promises on their brochures and websites....read on. This UK commentary hits a bullseye in my view. Don't panic Haiti, the Scientologists are coming! For ...

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This new study reinforces social influence theory as well as explaining how the events of The Wave [film based on the 1967 high school experiment gone awry] occured. I think it can help explain why someone "joins" a group like RSE especially after attending a workshop or event AND how one ...

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This book by Goodrick-Clarke will give you all you need to know re theosophy and Nazism http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookreviews/bkrev_blacksun.htm Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric Nazism and the Politics of Identity Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke New York: New York University Press, 2002, 371 pages. ...

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RSE in Israel poses a host of problems IF they make the news there. Israel has been tough on "sects" settling there, eg Scientology. Yet some have managed to find limited acceptance [for example the Black Hebrews: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites Main article: African H...

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Sweat-lodge documents reveal chaotic scene Arizona Republic, January 12, 2010 By JJ Hensley The participants in James Ray's fatal sweat lodge outside Sedona describe a chaotic scene and a spiritual leader that was reckless and had admittedly "let his ego get in the way" during prior events...

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good links for dahn hak, Cat. Makes you think how cults use the brain to fool the brain 8) It goes back to what Kathleen Taylor explains in her science oriented book "Brainwashing": chapter on 'The Traitor in your Skull' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing_(book) This book should stu...

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Steve Hassan and I are quoted in this Jan 2010 Glamour Magazine article:
http://www.glamour.com/magazine/2009/12 ... 0000195005

If you know anyone in it or ex-members, they may be interested
joe

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(CNN) -- A small town in Luxembourg once destroyed by fierce fighting remembers one of the bright moments in the dark of World War II -- a visit from Saint Nick. For Dick Brookins, a U.S. soldier standing in for an absent Saint Nicholas, it was to change his life also and help him find some meaning ...

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I have permission to send a pdf file to any individual who requests to read the out of print book "400 Years of Imaginary Friends" by Kenneth Paolini and Talita Paolini (2000). This is a self-published personal testimony and historical survey by ex-members of Church Universal and Triumphan...

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Rare witchcraft charge laid Fraud Alleged National Post December 11, 2009 Amy Husser, Canwest News Service Police have invoked a rarely used witchcraft charge against a Toronto woman accused of defrauding a lawyer of nearly $150,000 after she reportedly suggested she was possessed by his dead sister...

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I got curious about Ledwith now that you brought him up, looked over his info on the web. This is from http://www.ramtha.com/teachers/Miceal_Ledwith.asp "The insights of leading-edge science indicate a very different understanding of God and our place and purpose in creation than the ways of th...

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http://www.regainnetwork.org/ Cat The website above regards Fr Maciel, another controversial priest/founder of Legionairies of Christ. I know J Paul Lennon, an ex-priest, who helps to run ReGain and who used to belong to the Legion. He's native Irish and may know more about Ledw. Lennon wrote "...

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The 20/20 team visited with me and videotaped me at my home, then in New Mexico, for that piece they did on Ramtha @ 1987. Jud Rose and dave Doss [producer] both told me about the interviews they did with Sandy Fallis and other old friends of JZ. Those former friends were apparently clear about what...

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like magic most brainwashing techniques operate through misdirection. Eg, in boot camps that militaries set up world-wide for new recruits, the apparent reason for the boot camp is for training and fitness as well as instruction in combat, etc. The underlying effect and purpose of all that pressure ...

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http://ridiculoushuman.blogspot.com/200 ... -best.html

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edit: Sorry, I have a bad habit of spelling 'perennial' wrongly...

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The White Book is a presentation of the perennial philosophy, the perennial Wisdom, caste with a certain mythology around it, but I tried to keep it pure. I tried to keep it, ya know really in accord with what is call ?perennial philosophy?, if you?re familiar with that. There are two issues here t...

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Great posts enlightenmypocket! Good people in bad cults is an old drama. The Rolling Stones released this song Sympathy for the Devil in 1968. One of the lines goes: Ah, what's puzzling you, Is the nature of my game.... Another goes: But what's confusing you, Is just the nature of my game Any number...

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Despite having matured, Boopsie is still easily influenced, and has gotten heavily into new age practices, which B.D. considers absurd. She firmly believes in reincarnation, ESP and channeling. She herself has had a great deal of unintentional success in the latter, and became a vessel for "Hu...

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Over the years I have had to gather information on literally hundreds of RSEs. In every case i either purchased the materials outrights from the group or, more likely, after exit-counseling someone from the group, thus building an incredible deep trust, the ex-member would hand over the stuff knowin...

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If this legistlation passes we will open the gates to a radical change in what we the taxpayers are required to support in medical expenses. "We don't believe there should be hurdles between an individual and spiritual treatment that could be the most important solution to healthcare in this co...

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latimes.com Healthcare provision seeks to embrace prayer treatments A little-noticed measure would put Christian Science healing sessions on the same footing as clinical medicine. Critics say it violates the separation of church and state. By Tom Hamburger and Kim Geiger November 3, 2009 Reporting f...

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SG It is not so much an individual reponsibility to remain rational because no way can any one person no matter how smart he or she envisions the self, can be rational about all things in one lifetime. Its a relational thing and about the quailtiy of the relationships. That begins with the family sy...

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V brings up a host of popular concerns if Earth were invaded by an alien force disguised as a friendly advanced race. Liz Prophet of CUT and other Newage groups in the 60s--70s taught that humans were divided into types that had different types of heart-flame. A true "keeper of the flame" ...

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You can see the new V pilot here:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/106763/v-pilot

great reptilian alien invasion flick remake of 1983 series. very good.

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Cat Kaukl makes a bogus issue out of the so-called "brainwashing" claims of Jeff Knight. Jeff claimed he was due more money than he got but that he was not able to think clearly about challenging the god ramtha/JZ at the time because that is how he viewed the relationship. He thought the R...

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I am not sure if JZK ended up paying the $800,000 settlement No, she did not have to. This was an "evidentiary hearing" with no jury. The judge did not find enough evidence to totally prove that Jeff was a victim of fraud. His [Jeff's] attornies got costs/fees only. I was his first witnes...

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Devotees of the Mar?a Lionza religion, a mix of Catholic, West African and other customs, make a pilgrimage each October to Sorte Mountain in Yaracuy State, Venezuela, home of the high altar to the religion's central figure. http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/10/28/world/20091028VENEZ_index.html ...

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3 Ramtha Pays More [J.Z. Knight, divorce] Spiritualist J.Z. Knight, known as Ramtha, was ordered in March to pay $125,00 in attorney fees and $24,160 in costs to attorneys involved in the divorce settlement case with her ex-husband Jeffrey Knight, who accused the famous "channeler" of coer...

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yes. I learned that from seeing "Cats" 4x with my wife.

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I heard that the new biography on Spalding that will be fact based and NOT newage fantasy is nearing completion. Stay tuned....it may be out in a year or so .

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yes see my review on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Religion-Reporting-America-Unexpected/product-reviews/0061626813/ref=cm_cr_pr_link_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFourStar&pageNumber=2 Cats and the ineffable name, October 18, 2009 By Joe P. Szimhart (Douglassville, PA USA...

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http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/ New updated book by former longtime AMWAY leader "The book has been completely edited and updated to include details on class action lawsuits filed against Amway/Quixtar, law enforcement raiding Amway offices in India and The UK Department of Trade and Indus...

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Paul Haggis Renounces Church of Scientology in Blistering Letter

http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/paul-h ... p?page=all

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David, Most of the clients I referred or took there in past years were very pleased with the treatment and education they got there. Average stay was 2 - 3 weeks. I heard a few complaints as it is not a good fit for every personality. No place or therapy is. Most they could take at a time was six cl...

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There is a convergence of techniques in almost all 'new age' mass therapy cults. The sweat lodge cult and RSE use similar behaviors as landmark, insight, psi-worold, tony robbins, lifespring, etc. this recent French news program [with English subtitles] is worth viewing: http://www.culthelp.info/ind...

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On a conference call Mr. Ray held last week for sweat lodge participants, Dr. Bunn was shocked to hear one recount the comments of a self-described ?channeler? who visited Angel Valley after the retreat. Claiming to have communicated with the dead, the channeler said they had left their bodies in t...

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She also described a game ? enacted again at the retreat this month ? in which Mr. Ray wears white robes and plays God, ordering some participants to commit mock suicide. For the ?vision quest,? the exercise that required spending 36 hours in the desert without food or water, participants had sleep...

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Cat, I watched the i-psychopath documentary. very good, concise. It is important, as the film points out, never to make or impose a diagnosis until the results of scientific or reliable psychological tests are in. I looked at a few more documentaries on that url. I would recommend this one for ex-cu...

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david, No, I have not exited anyone from the 'ESP' or NXV#*M cult. 3 weekends ago in Denver at the ICSA conference we had a memorial session to talk about Paul Martin. Very moving. He was one of my quiet heroes in this cult business with a meticulous scientific approach as well as having deep empath...

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I "exited" maybe 2 dozen people out of Lenz's cult so I had to study every nuance of his history and teaching---that meant listening to hours and hours of his lectures---ugh...and reading and reviewing his books for journals. Here's one review: www.csicop.org/si/show/snow_job_in_the_himala...

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Published 10.16.2009 Former CUT leader, 70, dies at home By Camden Easterling, Enterprise Writer Elizabeth Clare Prophet, founder and past president of Church Universal and Triumphant, died Thursday of complications from Alzheimer?s disease. She was 70. Prophet died at her home in Bozeman, said Thom...

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This brings up one of the host of contradictions I found within movements that claim to represent the Great White Brotherhood or Theosophical Society milieu of "ascended masters". In the Agni Yoga teachings instituted by Nicholas and Helena Roerich @1920s under "Master Morya" it ...

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Deaths at Sweat Lodge Bring Soul-Searching New York Times By JOHN DOUGHERTY October 11, 2009 SEDONA, Ariz. ? Tucked into stunning red rock formations and canyons punctuated with splashes of green junipers, this town of about 11,500 has long been a high-end golf and tennis resort, the choice location...

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caterpillar I got the book and am 85 pages into it. Lobdell intros his book with a quote from Descartes: If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things. The book is an easy read. Nothing hammy or pin-headed so far.

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Marie, This might be a new thread....but it relates to the pray idea also. I am reacting to your signature. I just got the book "Losing My Religion: How I Lost My Faith reporting in Religion in America--and Found Unexpected Peace" by William Lobdell (48, award winning jounalist). www.willi...

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Marie, I hear what you mean about dogs but I am not so sure everyone feels the same about "their" dog. Dove, a in nail the church coffin came for me when I was sitting in church one Sunday and heard the minister say in his sermon that animals are "less" than people..anyone who ha...

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I missed Lisa's talk as i attended another one at the same time. I will have to read her paper too.

I wrote to Dr Whitsett to see if she has her paper or talk posted somewhere
Joe

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David, et al, After i broke with Mother E C Prophet's cult in 1980, a cult that required an incessant amount of "prayer" called decreeing [hyperspeed chanting] as well as use of New Thought style affirmations and Hindu chants or 'bhajans', and I include Aums or Oms and Buddhist 'Om Mani Pa...

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I am on my way home after 2+ days of a conference put on by ICSA mainly for a limited venue--maybe 80 people inclunding many mental health pros w PhDs atended. Good conference,. S Hassan gave a talk on his take on altered states and hypnosis. I spent some time talking with him personally, catching u...

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decades ago I learned how to cast horoscopes and do astrological readings. I had readings by some famous, published astrologers as well as by just average ones that charge reasonable prices. I'll admit it--I was a quaisi-believer in the art back then but the quasi soon won out over the believer and ...

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"To know things about yourself you could never see changes one's life in unimaginable ways," - Private Session participant I have no idea what that quote means. But I hear the same [almost exact] statement from people who see 2-bit astrologers. Could there be a connection? 8) These privat...

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Interesting stuff on rajneesh/osho. There is still a huge market for Esalen-like workshops and that is basically what the Osho center in Pune, India offers now. By the time I came across them, his books did not impress me. Back in the day, I exit counseled a number of his sannyasins successfully but...

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check out the latest SPECT brain scan this center uses to help treat addictions and mental illness. I've worked with people who have been to this treatment impressive center in AZ, Sierra Tucson. http://www.sierratucson.com/therapies_trtmnetmod.php I do not agree with all the treatment modalities th...

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Here's a review I can agree with. But one question we all must ask isn this: If the Society for Biblical Literature and academics who study this stuff scientifically have not come up with evidence, why would you believe a sensational film maker? Bigfoot in mouth :lol: http://variagate.com/film08-2.h...

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bloodline claims that the lineage of the priory of Sion exists. Not.... in my view. I reviewed the Da Vinci Code for several publications and looked into this then: http://icsahome.com/infoserv_bookreviews/bkrev_davincicode.htm my words: "The novel claims that Leonardo Da Vinci was a Grand Mast...

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"the power is within me." I find that exactly the message of Christ. ".... Which Christ is that? Certainly all the channeled New Agey Christs parrot the within routine ad nauseum, but is that what the Gospel tradition says? My answer has nothing to do with whether one is a Christian b...

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cat this is an excellent reference. Both science and common sense experience tell us that overloading any of the senses causes a disruption in brain fundtrion, therefore perception. eg, listening to rythmic drumming for many minutes will induce trance in most people to soe degree. Once in teance the...

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stage magic is about distracting people from the obvious with simple and elaborate diversions

Thanks for posting the real data from that study, Cat.

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dove
the red flags you described are valuable insights for anyone thinking of leaving RSE. Thanks.
best wishes,
joe

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http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/06/ev ... ion-s.html

This lecture [long, fast paced] by a Stanford professor is good for stimulating discussion and thoughts about why rituals and and odd religious beliefs occur

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correction: i wrote She says she was in a "tunnel" like the sleeping prophet E Cayce In that Science of Mind article JZ says she went to bookstores after 1977 at the direction of R to help herself answer questions about "What is this? What am I to do?" "I'd gone to bookstore...

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No. I think she meant that Ramtha is in the same milieu as all those folks exhibiting and seeking for "healing" and "energy" at the psychic fair I attended. Here's the statement: "What I'm really honored to know about myself along with aboout seventy million other American p...

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earlier today I went to a metaphysical fair or Annual Holistic & Spiritual Expo. It was in a Fire Company hall. I paid a $5 entry fee for the privelege of visiting perhaps a hundred exhibits. beyond the usual psychic readers, massage folks, reiki masters, and crystal healers there were pet psych...

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good point littlewisewoman people with anti-social personality disorder see no right or wrong in their actions but are clever enough to lie or to hide when necessary to protect their own a$$. it is my personal experience on numerous occasions which offer me the 'proof' that matters to me. This fail ...

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If ramtha was really a man, things could be worse! Scientology: The Truth Rundown, Part 1 of 3 in a special report on the Church of Scientology St. Petersburg Times Sunday, June 21, 2009 By Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writers Part ONE of THREE The leader of the Church of Scientology ...

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Snapping first came in @1979. It was one of the few books out with critical updated info on cults at the time. I know it helped me to get a grip on what happened to me in Prophet's cult. A flaw in Snapping and the newer edition [that now includes Ramtha] is the limited and somewhat skewed demographi...

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If you buy this book be aware that it will reflect Melton's view and not mine or Jeff Knight's for example. ...we are not listed in the index. This book looks like a patched together text for new students in religious studies. There will be nothing in the book that the authors might be sued ofr, thu...

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caterpillar Ford Greene was successful with the Molko case but that case also was a setback for expert witnesses. The anit-anticult crowd gathered to counter Dr Margaret Singer's theory of brainwashing and "coercive persuasion" as unscientific and won. She was not allowed to testify and it...

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oldone Jach Pursell as Lazaris [accent: la-ZAR-is] was managed by his "wife" Peny and her partner. The last I checked ten years ago they all lived in a $30 million complex [Jach by himself] in FL. Lazaris has been far far more successful in the channeling market than ramtha. btw, Lazaris i...

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Zeolite marketers ordered to stop illegal claims. The FDA has ordered Zeo Health Ltd to stop illegal claims for three zeolite-containing mineral products: Destroxin (cancer prevention and treatment), Esdifan (diarrhea) and Zeo (hangover preventive). The warning letter noted that the company's Web si...

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my wife called me while I was at work to tell me that vanpraaaag, jz and another was on LK. she saw a later broadcast. She said she watched ten minutes but turned it off---waste of her time. She did mention that jz looked 'botox'ed. What ever happened to growing old gracefully? Thank God for the Mot...

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LK's producers arrange to have psychics and other New Age curiosities now and then because a certain demographic audience eats this stuff up. Van Praagh has been on before. LK also has had as guests Elizabeth Prophet, Fred "Zen Master Rama" Lenz 2x and a host of other bizarre cult leaders....

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AD You are correct, I have no repect for Edgar Cayce's channelings yet I understand why others feel his "truth is within" illusion is not an illusion but very real. Cayce says: ?For truth is a growing experience in the hearts and the minds of individuals as they apply those tenets of the l...

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Sun Media Corporation and the "Journal de Montr?al" fined $10,000 for invasion of privacy of Raelians MONTREAL, May 11 /CNW Telbec/ - The Court of Quebec found Sun Media and the "Journal de Montr?al" guilty for invasion of privacy of two Raelians, one of which is a priest. Sun Me...

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AD I follow your logic. That line of argument is obvious and common but it is also a false analogy to compare the myths and miracle stories of a Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, or Jesus to those claimed by modern day mystics and gurus who can submit to real tests, video taping and so on to prove their pow...

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cat the Bruton book indicates that Baird's grandfather "John" Spalding did live in India where Baird's father may have been born. So it is conceivable that Baird "III" had real ties to India. Bruton states that Grandpop John wrote an unpublished manuscript that Baird later used a...

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no, can't recall this one. caterpillar mentioned them to me a bit ago. I would like to see the video. There were many many communal experiments in the sixties and seventies, but most flopped within a few years. In hindsight nearly all of them developed cultlike symptoms. Poor managing skills tend to...

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This book by David Bruton on Spalding must be read with care as to the author's pov. Although I could easily ferret out what was factual there is an element of the occult and spiritualism in it. The author makes no claim to pursuing clairvoyance or psi but he was apparently a spiritualist who had ma...

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I imagine if the Ramtha myth is correct that Judy will be sitting in a kitchen somewhere with her oxygen bottle when she's 80something, and some guy she keeps calling Ramtha will appear to her with a wheelchair ready to take her away. Spalding was a real oddball it seems. He was 5'6" tall but v...

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PS: The Bruton book offers a good bit of personal insight into Spalding's relationship with his publisher Douglas DeVorss. Bruton and DeVorss interacted personally to settle the Spalding estate. What is of interest is that DeVorss seemed to be manipulating Spalding and nthe legend around him all alo...

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Just read a short book, Baird T Spalding As I Knew Him by David Bruton (1954). The author gives us a very friendly but realistic picture of Spalding without buying into his fantasies. The book exposes Spalding as a con-artist who nevertheless did not exploit his devotees--iow, he never started a cul...

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nice quote but be careful with using Assagioli as a reference. he was a disiple of and promoted Alice A Bailey channeled material. AAB started an offshoot Great White Brotherhood movement [Arcane School & New Group of World Servers] in early 1920s after joining and teaching at the Theosophical S...

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ex I challenge any of JZ's most "successful" remote view students [or ex-students who still believe they have this power] to take the simple ouija test I proposed above...and they would not even have to use a ouija board 8) :lol: Let a trained stage magician conduct the test agreed upon by...

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Chris others have good things to say in prior posts about this but keep in mind, as far as science is concerned that kind of singular study of JZ has no meaning if there are no comparative studies using the same tests on many other channelers as well as actors who fake "channel" to see if ...

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An entire procession of cults and obscure religious sects has followed Blavatsky's lead, copying their doctrines from her and from one another while simultaneously denying their true sources and instead attributing their second- and third-hand revelations to further contact with the Hidden Masters ...

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watcha modrators may wish to start a thread with this legal stuff. If you wish to find legal opinion from a sociological persepective that would tend to "defend" new religious movements or cults, turn to this site below for starters. I met with Prof Richardson once many many years ago and ...

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Ballard This case regarding the I AM Activty that started in 1940 set the standard for all subsequent legal cases against "religions" or spiritual movements. Jay is correct that the US courts cannot convict a cult leader of fraud no matter how ...

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Unbound and others. This is a good thread for sorting out, iow, "naming" what happened. Here are some thoughts to consider. I have tended to look at the idea of cult influence as a kind of social disease that causes psychological symptoms. We can better treat and recover from a disease whe...

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see&e Good article on Krishnamurti. I remember when he was in Los Alamos, NM--I read the news about it in Santa Fe papers at the time. I would not waste a day driving to hear him---found his autodidactic approach to teaching to be a bore. Like he said, "Aristotle will lay down certain princ...

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G2G You are digging into the deeper layers of the new age compost heap 8) Ruth Montgomery was a journalist turned New Age/occult author/psychic based on her belief that she had intimate contact with 'aliens', esp one called Lily [a male entity]. Her alien contacts endorsed Frederick von Meiers [aka ...

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I had a file on Astara many years ago. I looked on wiki to jog my memory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astara,_Inc. I think of it in the category of an 'I AM-lite' new age group, kind of like most small New Thought groups or the Unarius Society. The 22 lessons they offer is in the same category as I ...

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That's interesting stuff, Watcha, about the ACM and mixed views about what happens to people who defect and why they join cults. It's enough to make you crazy as viewpoints are all over the social map from Dick Anthony/J Gordon Melton to Margaret Singer/Michael Langone. "At the end of the day&q...

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OOPS, that was Holly Hunter not J Foster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Piano

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no correlation with cults in The Piano. It's like a 19th century era piece about people coming to NZ as I recall.
Harvey Keitel and Jody Foster are in it though.

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I recall when the campion sisters were researching for this film interviewing "exit counselors" in America. they retained Rick Ross for content--Harvey Keitel interviewed him and played the part. Also interviewed Tal Brooke for "baba" content based on his experience with Satya Sa...

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A writer just tipped me off to this: The following is case law re copyrights of books purportedly from 'celestial' or metaphysical sources. The lawsuit by Urantia Foundation includes mention of a similar suit brought by the family of the author of Dweller on Two Planets by 'Phylos the Thibetan'. Thi...

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So let me explain that: I think when you learn how it works, you come to a junction in your life, and that both ways lead to the same point, only one of them is shorter than the other one. So, you can have the selfish way or the compassionate and love your enviroment way, and have the same things a...

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yes you can learn to avoid nlp, caterpillar learn to "stop and think" as suggested by Dr Kathleen Taylor Home review by Joe Szimhart November 25, 2004 Oxford University Press, Great Clarendon St., Oxford OX2 6DP, UK ISBN 0192804960 Hardback, 324 pages Ł18.99 (British pounds) Challenging i...

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Traveller in Space: In Search of Female Identity in Tibetan Buddhism. June Campbell. George Braziller, New York, 1996, 240 pages. Review by Joe Szimhart, 1997 Anyone who has followed the recent histories of Zen and Tibetan Buddhist teachers with Western devotees knows that, too often, these same tea...

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I finally had time to look over the entire 67 pages article quoted from that began this interesting thread---- http://www.pennypresslv.com/Obama%27s_Use_of_Hidden_Hypnosis_techniques_in_His_Speeches.pdf Disclaimer: I voted for McCain, do not feel Obama was or is ready to preside over America. Nevert...

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journeythroughramthaland thanks for trying to get this thread back on the rails :-? I dislike getting into personal disputes on these forums but Tree, that last post was harsh, schoolyard 'tit for tat' stuff. It belongs in another venue. maybe y'all can start another thread or keep it off EMF as Dav...

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maybe "campaign" was the wrong word but this does seem very important to you. I am merely trying to help out. btw I was referring to "member" as in: Government. a. a member of Congress, esp. of the House of Representatives. b. a member of the British Parliament, esp. of the House...

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cerulean. I agree, good thread. Here are some questions that may help this along. This is from what I wrote on my website on "Cult 101": http://home.dejazzd.com/jszimhart/cult101.htm Thought control 1. The practice by a totalitarian government as attempting (as by propaganda) to prevent su...

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