That explains to me the evolution of the jzk circus show. She keeps testing to see how far she can go, how much people will take. How much she can get away with. Like the discipline of running at each other?! Only happened once, total disaster, went too far. Once she read about the brain making new neurons while walking, tada new discipline, now it's not enough to walk talk the dribble, you have to 'self correct' by stopping and holding up your hand when your mind wanders, same as the candle, raise your hand when your not focused! What happened to being so still that the hungry lion wouldn't notice you? How come an all enlightened being wouldn't know the best way to teach the first time? I remember my family member who had been there for years and years and was so pissed that my first event I was caught up to all the teachings, the brainwashed believe that the new people are farther evolved so they don't need to wait 8 years for jz to find something new!
You must be in the same part of the world that I am; I know that "Barbie and Ken" case well. And where is "Barbie" now? I heard that she is a Mom.
I am not exactly clear about the analogy you are drawing - are you saying that the way in which she was coerced to go along with "Ken"'s sick and twisted murders was the same way in which RSE extracts cohesion from its followers?
Yes we are from the same part of the world, in fact I was attending university in St Catharines at the time of all the horror! We were terrified making our male friends take turns staying over.
My point, however convoluted, is that Paul Bernardo evolved into the murderer by circumstance. It was enough fro him to be a rapist, until he got away with murder, now the rape wasnt enough.Jz has evolved into an abuser, and she pushes the envelope a little more every time. She takes it to the extreme and once people get seriously hurt she pares back. From what I have read here from the old-timers she started out with the peace love and Bobby Sherman schtick, no disciplines, just wisdom. Then c&e, gentle and meditative, short time periods, to the hyperventilation sessions that last hours and hours. Blindfolded field walks, again short periods of time, to all day mud fests, filled with stop hand up self correction, the tank, it's a great idea to let 1000 people into that thing at once, blindfolded and terrified. I only did it once, which was enough for me, we started at 8 am and it was called at 3 pm, and the experience brought out the absolute worst in me.
All in all, it proves that there is no master teacher, for why wouldn't he have known the best way to teach us mere mortals the first time? It makes me terrified for my family member who is waaaay down the rabbit hole, the evolution of buxdeluxe college just gets more and more extreme
Lost, I read on a post from you about a lady you knew who used Edgar Cayce to heal her cancer, was she by chance from our area?
As it happens I have a close friend who is a devotee of the teachings of Edgar Cayce. There is an Edgar Cayce institute, and they have a website. There are prayer circles throughout the world set up in his honour...they exist, though, strictly on voluntary donations.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1 ... 00593.html
Interesting little write up of Edgar Cayce. I must say, though, that naturopathy has many such detractors as does the very idea that anyone has psychic powers. Curiously, the poster is an anonymous one, and Linda Goodman is a popular astrologer. Many skeptics hold that there is no validity in astrology either.
Had to have a chuckle at your thoughts that many do not believe in popular astrology, as I would be one of them.
The people who write for SkepDic (as opposed to the people who write TO SkepDic) are not noted for being open minded or even scientifically impartial. To be ardently against something is on a parr, I think, with being ardently for it. Just my thoughts,
And I also thought that a position of extreme skepticism could be just as limiting as rigid adherence to a religion or philosophy. As in that argument,
I suppose this same idea could be applied to RSE in the abstract: If upon leaving RSE you embrace ideas and beliefs which are the extreme opposite of everything RSE stands for, are you any the less having your choices ruled in some way by RSE? I hope for better things for former students.
I would consider RSE to be a kooky yet harmless thing if I could, but to back up from the :abstract: point and simply look squarely at results, the negative effects of RSE participation are undeniable. Were it simply a faulty belief system with unclear origins it would be a sad thing, but in a cult like RSE there is a single causative agent and blatantly abusive overtones.
JZ is surely aware of the stress, fear, poverty, broken families, suicides, untreated illnesses, and psychosocial isolation her students are suffering but apparently to her and her cadre the money and the power rush are more important than that. Encouraging doomsday preparations and panic in an already compromised group of students is beyond irresponsible, beyond mere greed, and beyond dedication to a fictional teacher. It has been called spiritual rape aptly, and it has been consciously and systematically applied for the dual purposes of profit and power; this is the only way I can evaluate RSE as an organization based on its results.
Some students arrived wealthy and managed to hang onto most of their assets and some arrived with good life skills and managed to continue to practice those skills; these types are folks who will talk about how great the school is, because Wrongtha takes credit for their success. And they foolishly suscribe to that.
But there are an equal (perhaps greater?) number who arrived desperately seeking answers at vulnerable points in their lives, and faithfully practicing RSE doctrines resulted in disastrous consequences to varying degrees, and usually on multiple axes of function.
At both ends of the happiness continuum, there is an absence of good result and a plethora of bad ones. RSE is societally damaging and should be shut down.
This my opinion, go ahead and sue me for it!
From what you have said you sound rational, not rigid. My RSE friends are all still "in" or perhaps still just keeping up the appearance of not being "out", and it makes me sad to think they are caught up in something that detracts from their quality of life to a large extent, as you suggest.
You would know better than I do about all the effects of membership.
I was speaking more in general terms, which on this site is perhaps innapropriate. I do believe, though, that tossing out what amounts to years of one's life and hours of dedication (perhaps futile dedication, but still...) to such an extent that you reject every single solitary thing you experienced and every person that you knew during that time, and every single idea or teaching would strip you down to a very basic and sorry existence. Especially since some of what is taught is not exclusive to RSE and represents the entire evolution of human potential and consciousness. I will not list here what I see as potentially good things that could have come from the experience - that would be offensive to many. Just saying that I think former students are salvageable and that some of the learning that went on, however flawed it may have been, can be adapted to life outside of RSE and, also, the energy spent on extreme repudiation of it would be better spent rebuilding one's life and focusing on things that have been let slide as a result of membership.
I agree with the above premise- as do many experts- that completely discounting or vilifying one's own cult experience is to be avoided. It would simply be a self-propagation of the cult's black and white, us and them thinking. Getting used to the humongous grey zone of life is part of the challenge of recovery... so you will find folks here sensitized against statements even remotely supporting RSE as we strive to get back to the middle.
In my time in RSE I made some of the best friends I ever had, had lots of laughs, got laid a lot, and yes, I did learn a lot- (at a buxdeluxe price instead of $12.95 from Amazon ) ... so there was a balance of good in that part of my life.
But like I tried to explain, organizations like RSE should be judged by their primary effects on the students, secondary effects on their families and social contacts, and tertiary effects on the local community. RSEinc fails those tests.
The garden variety master is a wonderful, giving, sensitive, intelligent, noble person. They wouldn't be there if they didn't have high ideals. Does their presence make the organization less corrosive? Maybe in the eyes of an outsider, but those of us with scars from the Tank might feel differently. In fact, it doubles the insult to our souls.
Let's just be sure to draw a distinction between the worthiness/value of the average student vs. the deceitfulness/manipulation for profit/irresponsibility/hypocrisy of the RSE power structure and those who model themselves after them. The fact that it has attracted some really good human beings -who are uncommon in their own right- in no way can be seen as a redeeming aspect of the school itself.
Speaking from the inside of this, I want to share with you that the repudiation aspect is an act of inner rebalancing that must take place, and though it may be hard to watch from the outside or may be easy to misinterpret, it has to take place. It's how we reclaim our own brains. That's my take on it and I hope I didn't insult you.
About the repudiation aspect we have no disagreement, just that there are degrees of repudiation and taking it to the ultimate extreme may be a form of self-injury.
I would agree about the garden variety master being a good person - and in my own mind I do draw a distinction between the individual student and the 'school' as a whole.
I, too, have thought at first glance that recent attacks on the school were simply overcompensation, etc. and I have to agree that there is risk for psychic injury from that sort of swing. However, I have since found out the third stage of recovery for many people is activism and self-exposure as a recovered cult member, and an effort to help others who are having difficulty extricating themselves from the trap. When seen through that lens a lot of the public flap around RSE makes good sense and a lot of the postings on this board do too.
When I first started reading this forum, I thought "boy, these posters are like mad dogs, they're so pissed I can hardly believe it!" Now it makes sense to me; those posts really hammered their way through my denial where some more ambiguous or lovey-dovey verbiage might not have.
If I was still in the trap or had never been, the value of that might not be clear, but one thing to remember about RSE is the most basic guiding principle- never question, never doubt, the channel is a saint, etc.- so after repressing those impulses for half of a lifetime, it feels unbelievably good to unleash the big dogs and get into some meaty critical thought. It's very healing. Very empowering and freeing. And it just might get through to the current students reading this, because deep down they all know they are being screwed royally.
In the beginning, when I first started rse, it was all about me, my development, my choices, that's the motivation,it's reinforced by the way scrambles explains away the biggest doubt we all have of whether or not he is real, he can't prove it because then it would all be about him,and we would worship him, blah,blah,blah.
After a short period of time you are made to relinquish yourself, because your inner voice is screaming at you, but you are told that it's emotional, you can't get there if you want comfort and serenity, the path is brutal, you gotta suck it up buttercup, no complaints, deny yourself in a 5 hour field, cold wet and tired, deny yourself in the tank when people are pushing and pulling like savages, deny yourself at the end of the tenth c&e tune and you hear another song starting, deny yourself when rambles repeats the teaching for the fifth time during the same rambling when your inner voice is saying okay I heard you the first 3 f-ing times! Jzr promises the map, if you follow it intentionally, it will take you 7 years and all your dreams come true!
What I ended up learning was that I will never let anyone manipulate me to turn off my inner knowingness again, just like Dorothy in the wizard of oz, everything has been with you all along, that's the reconnection that heals, calms and clears the bullshit. That's what I mean by waking up, trusting your own mind to know what's healthy for you. It was an expensive lesson, but hey I learned it!