Let’s talk about the Fear!

How is life after RSE? What negative effects are you dealing with? How has it affected loved ones? What has helped you towards healing and moving on? Share with others here.
User avatar
David McCarthy
Site Admin
Posts: 2596
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand

Let’s talk about the Fear!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:13 am

JZK’s deliberate and calculated use of the US court subpoena system to intimidate EMF members.
Let’s talk about The Fear JZK seeded in our lives and on EMF.

What I am about to share should not be construed as legal advice to be applied to any specific factual situation.
If you have a legal question you are welcome to post it here... perhaps Joshua can help answer it for you.
JZK's subpoena fishing expeditions are unfortunately creating fear and confusion for many EE and EMF members.
First of all, to date, not one of our EMF members have been subpoenaed directly due our EMF server giving over identifying information to JZK,Inc.
That is not to say it is not possible for her legal trolls and spies to obtain identifying information by targeting EE and EMF members.
We believe this has already happened.
That is why I 'we' have one of the finest lawyers Joshua Koltun now facing down JZK,Inc and endeavoring to also protect your Third Amendment Rights to privacy.
Representing EE members is Breckan Scott: Yelm, Washington Criminal Defense/Personal Injury Attorney/Lawyer
Link: http://www.breckanlaw.com/

But we are staying diligent, hence my request that if any EMF members receive a subpoena or are contacted by JZK to let me know.
Yesterday... at the request of an EMF poster we deleted a whole thread off EMF. This is a very serious matter to delete someone’s post from EMF, let alone a whole thread. :cry:
The cause of this is directly attributed to JZK’s deliberate and calculated intention to use the courts subpoena system to intimidate our EMF members. And what happened yesterday is a prime example of this abuse.
Recently I received an angry Email from an RSE supporter...
Why are you afraid of being subpoenaed if you
have not broken the law."
“Why are you afraid of being subpoenaed if you have not broken the law. Why is everyone running and hiding”
On the face of it, and given this person is still of the RSE brainwashed mindset, it looks this way. I did my best to explain that most people are clueless to the possibility that the US subpoena system is open to abuse from unscrupulous Cult leaders, Corporations and Government Agencies. I explained that for anyone to receive a subpoena is no small matter regardless of their standing.
JZK knows full well the impact of sending these subpoenas out like postcards to harass former students and other outspoken critics of JZK such as Jeff Adams. .
There is another level to these subpoenas, the use of depositions.
This may involve hours of grueling video interviews ‘interrogations” by JZK’s lawyers, with intrusive probing into all matters of your private life. There is no judge or jury at a deposition but there is a court reporter. If it is very advisable to have a lawyer present to represent you.
If you have fears and concerns on these issues then voice them here on EMF. The first fear to overcome is the fear to voice your fear.
This is a direct method of dealing with these fears that often, are illogical and destructive to your own wellbeing and recovery from RSE. It is a fact that JZK, Inc is endeavoring to use subpoenas to frighten EE and EMF members to silence your voices of criticism, the fear generated from her actions is also a fact, let’s talk about this and deal with it together. And hopefully there will be no need to delete more posts and threads off EMF in the future, born of the JZK intimidation factor.
But there will come a day 'that one fine morn' if you stand strong, honest and caring... you will realize that the most shocking thing about JZ Knight is how pathetically insane and corrupt she and her RSE cult really was.
So please lets talk about this 'fear'.... :shock:




Joshua Koltun Attorney

Breckan Scott: Yelm, Washington Criminal Defense/Personal Injury Attorney/Lawyer

Third Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amen ... nstitution

Deposition Instructions

Subpoena duces tecum - Wikipedia,

Deposition - Wikipedia

Depositions - Four Rules Of Answering Questions - YouTube
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 am

Re: Let’s talk about the Fear!

Unread post by Sunshine » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:46 am

Thank you David. Although I have not received any subpoena, I am happy to hear you open this discussion. Fear feeds in the dark. Shedding light on this matter is healthy and needed. It also helps to keep everyone clear and knowledgeable. I learned a few things myself from your post and that helps clear up confusion. Confusion adds to the fear.

Much love to all here who are recovering, it certainly is a process...<3

Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Let’s talk about the Fear!

Unread post by Rooster » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:30 am

I do understand if you own a business in Yelm, that would be a concern.
I also think being subpoened is a harrassment. I can understand that fear as well.

I have worked to over come much fear. The fear of posting for one. I would sometimes cringe inside even after I posted. I would think, why did I do that? What will they say, who will know me? Lol...Thankfully you are all so warm and welcoming, I did not run away. The site has been so healing. To see others in the same situations come out and voice their experiences and healing is wonderful.

Sunshine, your posting has helped others already. I prefer to let others know they are not alone as you have.

I am greatful for over coming fears of rse and jz. I do however still fear what could happen with my family if my identity was known. I watched what happened with Virgina and her brother. How pitiful to have families side against one another.

Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:36 pm
Location: Los Angeles,CA

Re: Let’s talk about the Fear!

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:54 am

Yes Sunshine and David, This is indeed a very fundamental and healthy topic for discussion. While it may get uncomfortable at times, it should never serve to be detrimental.

Universal love, the desire to make the world a better place, to make ones self a better person, to be able to deal with unpleasant realities of life in a more positive manner, the ideas that the human being has greater potential then is currently perceived within society are shared ideals of many who became involved and those that still are in RSE, those things are also a large part of the bait used to draw one towards RSE and organizations similar to them.

In RSE's case in particular, the use and manipulation of fear is what sinks the hook in once that bait has been taken.

The emotion of fear, being one of the most studied emotions next to love has been proven to have evolved as a survival mechanism from at least the time primates first set foot on the ground and experienced a whole new environment awaiting them.

Fear at the sight of a large predator coming after ones' self leads to many bodily responses (better known as "fight or flight") which places the body in a state of heightened activity needed to either run to escape, or stand and defend ones self.

Without it, there is little doubt that the big dude/dudette would ever had evolved to be the supposed Cro- magnon being that it claims to be. :oops:

Fear, being the powerful emotion that it is has historically been used throughout the ages for manipulation to serve others agendas, be it governments, religions, witch doctors, cult leaders and persons in one-on -one relationships. This is evidenced by just to mention a few, Stalin and Hitler, The inquisition, Romans and Christians, the Hindu Thugees,Islamic Jihads, human sacrifices, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, JZ Knight, OJ Simpson. The ones I have left out is only for purposes of space not necessarily due to the proportion of their importance.

I point all this out because in the context of discussing fear I feel one must acknowledge it as a tool of power which can and has been used by members of the human race for ages. Very few persons would be able to make a legitimate claim of ignorance to it. However, as history shows, once hooked and ones perception has been skewed towards the same as the manipulator wants it to be for their agenda (regardless of if they feel it is for the greater good or not) It can have devastating and long reaching effects on individuals and societies.

Let us examine for a moment the ways in which JZK inc. and her minions use and abuse this emotion necessary for survival. Please understand that when I speak of her minions, I do not necessarily mean that they are acting deliberately in this way, it is only a learned behavior for many a mind virus they have been infected with,. I do however believe that many in the hierarchy, including JZ/R are aware of what they are doing to a great degree.

I am going to start by beginning with a hypothetical journey of a woman I shall call Helga. For context, Helga has always felt herself to be a spiritual person, is recently divorced and is looking to start fresh in her life. She is, due to her recent life changes a bit skeptical of the world at large and her place in it. She has several close friends who have been through similar life changing events.

One day, she is invited to one of her friends house. She opens up about her problems, her friend listens attentively, when she finishes, her friend goes over to the bookshelf, takes a book from the shelf and hands her the book saying "this book helped me when I was going through a similar time perhaps it could help you"

"What is it about?" Helga says. "life" her friend answers (note this is the first instance of being cryptic or not fully disclosing when Helga had asked a question). 8)

Helga throws the book in her bag and goes home. At some point in time she begins to read the book; "The White Book by Ramtha" Almost immediately it touches her, resonates with her as she reads on….. Next time she sees her friend and brings back the book she thanks her and asks her who is Ramtha?

Her friend says "My teacher" (Note again the cryptic nature and selective disclosure) Helga might say "Your Teacher??? I didn't know you were in school???" Her friend smiles broadly and with an unblinking stare says " Well I am, a Great School"……..

I am going to fast forward here, perhaps there is some more information imparted as to the nature of Ramtha and the nature of the school but as Helga would see in hindsight, it was like pulling teeth and all of it led to "You have to experience it for yourself…"

There is no talk about the teacher puking, snotting, peeing, cursing, shouting bigoted remarks and demeaning listeners from the stage. Note what was missing; note what is unknown needing to be made known for an informed consent to participate. Its like going to the hospital for what you think is going to be a visit and not being told they were going to anesthetize you and cut you open! ;-)

Now, what has helped to perpetuate all this??? When Helga asks her friend why she can't be more specific about what she is learning, her friend explains that she has sworn not to ever divulge what she is learning (more intrigue).
Helga eventually makes the decision to take a portion of her alimony payments and enroll for a beginners class at RSE ( now here is where some of you can help me out. I am not certain if one enrolls over the internet they sign the condition of participation on line or at the ranch) for purposes of this discussion she lines up in Yelm like in Disneyland to sign the conditions of participation. She sees what her friend spoke of, she sees it says she is entering into a "Solum covenant" not to disclose what she is to learn (lets not forget that will include at some time the snot,spit,vomit and pee) Helga doesn't really understand the meaning of solemn covenant in legal terms, she is more then likely looking at it as some sort of ritualistic oath into this what she has already learned is a " Mystery school"….. :shock:

As soon as she sees it and signs it that is what makes the impression on her. More then likely not the part about releasing JZK inc. from injuries possibly sustained there, not about the stuff that should she become one of JZK's honored "teachers" that she would really be tied up in knots.

Helga doesn't even have to set foot in the ranch and she is already fallen victim to a perception of fear should she disclose anything.

This is at the heart of JZK's operation. This is what she is attempting to use against anyone who might want to pull the curtains back and reveal that the wizard is not a wizard. Or to put it in Ramtha speak "lifting the veil"

Take a look at the consequences if it had not been signed; anyone who went to the school would be free to tell their friends they go to a school taught by a waxed faced broad who pees, snots, spits, curses and rants and raves for hours (just to mention a bit) and some of them might go to see it just to see if it is true that people actually pay money to see this. But wait….you don't have to go and see this, you can just look it up on the internet!!!

Oh…but that's no good… :cry: then there would be no money made by JZK there would be no way to lure future recruits into her scam, her little ponzi scheme fed by peoples good intentions, trust, sincerity, willingness to help humanity and their dollars would dry up and she would be left alone, with no school, much less money, no adoration, no reason to have to put on the Ramtha go-go show she has had to put on for decades (that might be a positive for her) and those people who might have joined get to keep their good intentions, ability to trust, sincerity, willingness to help humanity and their dollars for their retirement, family, and whatever charities they choose (in a perfect world). :D

Here is a suggestion to those who think that piece of paper they signed can really rule their "sovereign" lives and keep them from telling even what they might BELIVE took place in their dreams!!!

Note; the following is for amusement purposes only and not to be construed as legal advice:

Make the unknown known. :idea:

Find yourself a Lawyer, one not connected to RSE in any way and ask them just how obligated you are to that document. Most attorneys will give an initial consultation for free.

David is right about the seriousness of having a subpoena served on ones self. However, in my experience the courts do not look kindly on a misuse of the subpoena powers. They regularly and actively guard against it because it reflects directly upon the court.

The perception of fear appears to be now on the other foot. Except now, this fear is based in reality. JZs actions are those of desperation and based upon the material that is out there it is understandable.Hers is a reaction of fear.

Jz/rs teachings of the elimination of emotions include fear, translating into the elimination of ones survival skill to be able to defend ones self. That is why people stand still while being attacked in the arena, that is why no one goes to anyones aid when they are being attacked. Both of those things are acts of submission

In fact, their perception of fear has been supplanted. In the above situations they are acting out of an instilled anxiety, one which would have been hard to perpetrate and perpetuate without signing her despicable agreement.

I have always thought that the Conditions of Participation she requires participants to sign is one of the main cards that held her card house up. I think that card is beginning to move and will soon disintegrate. It will be up to all of those who who have signed it or are considering signing it to decide if they will allow it to guide and restrict their behavior and their freedoms .

Keep this thread going. I think it is so important both for those involved with RSE, those who have exited RSE and those outside of RSE altogether who cannot grasp the dynamics at work which enables those involved to behave in the manner they do.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:38 am

Re: Let’s talk about the Fear!

Unread post by newshoes » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:28 pm


Having just come to a place of posting here, I feel the fear viscerally, my heart rate goes up and I want to stop thinking about the insidious intrusion into my thinking that jzkr has pulled off. (Breathing hard here). Not to mention the grief I have over financial and relationship losses. Sadly, jzkr has/had colored so much of my thinking for so long, I am only now beginning the work of healing.

It's been two years since I had the eye opening realization that felt like freedom. I was driving on a road in yelmland and the picture of the group of Japanese people standing at the corner with suitcases, looking lost, came to mind. Until that moment, I did not see the crazy outrageous inflicting of pain that is the jzkr stock in trade. Telling the Japanese students that their home was going to fall into the ocean at any moment and they needed to run for safety to yelmland, that is fear as a manipulative tool. Stark. Cruel. Madness. From a psychopath. Only a pathic (psyco/socio-) can so effectively use others' emotions for their own ends.

There. I said it. My hands shaking, heart racing now. That's what that fear does. It's a PTSD response in me. From my many years of conditioning in the school.

It is so important to keep this discussion thread active. No one should feel alone in facing the legal juggernaut of jzk rse.


Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:36 pm
Location: Los Angeles,CA

Re: Let’s talk about the Fear!

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:20 pm

Hi Newshoes,

Welcome! (I like your nic by the way)

Your honest and courageous post hit home for me. After my experience with Bodhananda (see; viewtopic.php?f=11&t=115I ) I felt the same anxiety and panic when calling the house my daughter was in, it increased greatly if he answered the phone, and even more so in his presence. Those feelings lasted for over a year until an instance which I will describe later in this post.

Besides that having those feelings are unnerving on their own, they can be perceived as spooky, mysterious and at the time they are happening, inexplicable.

This is because there is no apparent immediate threat such as someone holding a knife at your throat, a wild animal leaping out of the bush at you, or being caught in a rip current in the ocean and seeing the beach disappear.

For you, you were only typing keys on a keyboard, for me I was only dialing a telephone number. Completely different environmental situations from the ones mentioned above.

In the one where the threat is real and apparent, the heart pounding and blood rushing is a hormonal response which dilates our blood vessels allowing more blood supply to immediately go to our muscles so that we would be able to better respond to the threat. The same is true for the heavy breathing which is sending more oxygen to help the muscles respond better, run faster, fight stronger.

My prior self defense training helped me move through this, though at times it was close to paralyzing. I can only tell you how I came to view this in hindsight and hope it offers you understanding that relief from that is certainly possible, especially since I fully agree with you in the respect that it is a result of conditioning.

Once I understood what had happened to me and was effecting my daughter, my rage was on the order of Charles Bronson in "Death Wish". For me, it was a terrifying reality that I understood I was capable of mortal harm. The thought of acting on it was real, palpable, and close to overpowering at times. I had to constantly review all the consequences of such action to get a better perspective and find ways to vent my feelings that would not result in such severe consequences.

That was one reason for my feelings. Another was because, I had imbibed in Bo, subconciously, some sort of mystical, greater then me power in addition to the fact that he now had that power to wield upon my daughter who was out of my reach.

This is the instance which ended those feelings for me instantaneously.

I had driven up from Los Angeles to surprise my daughter, I knew where she worked, so I went there rather then the house she was living at with Bo. She wasn't there but was expected back so I waited. I am not sure if someone got in touch with Bo to let him know I was there or not, but while I was waiting, he came through the door, stopped , waved and smiled and said "Hi",

I erupted and said "Hi?, just who the hell do you think your saying hi too?" My heart was leaping out of my chest, the blood was pounding in my ears and head, my body was tingling and felt like it was vibrating and shaking perceptively.

As soon as I had said that, Bo stood completely still and emotionless and just stared at me which I recognized as typical behavior meaning to say "my freak out is mine and he had no part in it, so he would just allow me my lesson" I paced back and forth trying to get some sort of control of what was happening in my body.

When I realized he would stay there like that until he outlasted me, I made a decision to confront him at his own level of determination. Taking all of these feelings with me (I was about 50 feet away) I walked very, very slowly and deliberately straight towards him. Each step I took, I consciously grounded my body to help contain this feeling of my body getting away from me. I got to within a foot of him, and kept going until my nose touched his nose. At which point he went to push me away.

Something I had never expected happened. He had actually pushed himself off of me and thrown himself backwards, lost his balance and fell to the ground. I had not moved a bit.

I saw in his face as he was down that what had happened was also totally unexpected to him and his vulnerability had been exposed. As he got up I said, "You, will never, ever, touch me again." and walked past him to go outside and wait for my daughter. then he left the store and was on his way. I never experienced those feelings again after that moment though I still encountered him, in trying to remain in contact with my daughter.

So Newshoes, while your feet maybe a bit sore from the breaking in period, know that your posting and moving with the feelings you are experiencing can help undo prior conditioning.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

Post Reply

Return to “Leaving RSE: The Aftermath”