My Last Event: Joe D

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My Last Event: Joe D

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:28 pm

I want to talk about my last RSE event. It was a non-mandatory event in November of 2005. I traveled to go to this event because it was, as many of the events are, highly touted as important because it was Ramtha's event. Gosh, don't want to miss that one ! (sigh)

I sat in the front, and what I witnessed - a complete character assassination of Dr. Joe, was one of the major factors in that event being my last event. It was the icing on the cake. Why ?

At the time, rumors were spreading through the school about a rift between JZ and Joe. He was being criticized for something that JZ herself has done; he had a media article where he didn't specifically give credit to Ramtha as his teacher. IN MY OPINION, this is ridiculous, when JZ herself was on Larry King Live and never mentioned Ramtha as the source of her spiritual knowledge. Further, Joe did backtrack and correct his situation. At that point, one would expect, both parties would have moved on. No, no.

Joe wrote a book, (competition for JZ) that contained content beyond the scope of RSE's teachings. He was doing his own thing, but it was viewed by JZ as competition and she sent out a letter telling staff what to say to students about it. I think we posted that on the old EMF site. If not, we do have a copy. Joe was cited as being against RSE and it was necessary for her to take the action of dismissing him as a teacher. Later on, all of a sudden, the Gag Order appeared without notice, at an event with new and longtime students. The Gag Order (Conditions of Participation) restricts students so severely, that not only would they be unable to write their own book (ahem!), they can't even talk about dreams they have in which they experience Ramtha. My understanding is that Joe refused to sign the document and was promptly kicked out of RSE. In my opinion he did the right thing and I'm sure it took a lot of courage, because like many of us, we loved our teacher and the teachings.

JZ has a track record that speaks for her. Many people who get close to her, be they staff or otherwise, end up departing. Long time students have watched this happen for years. Nobody has been allowed to shine a light brighter than hers, without ending up out the door. A painful realization that we are not encouraged to shine brightly in our own right. There are lots of spiritual teachers on this planet, but none may come from RSE teachings at all, because she IS The Show there. White Wind Weaver had a pre-existing teaching she did, joined RSE and suddenly was accused of forgery. That's one example - and WWWeaver is being dragged into court.

In those latter years, as the teachings/teacher deteriorated into highly abusive talk and actions, drunkness, etc., it was time to leave. However, many of us felt a sense of loyalty to the teacher. Perhaps a very misplaced sense of loyalty, but it was there, nevertheless. Why ? Due to special experiences that we had with "him" . So, when JZ's actions were less than stellar, much would get swept under the rug.

So what of this sense of loyalty ?
At what point does a student or ex-student say, enough is enough ? When does a person say that if Ramtha is real, that we have the right to stand toe to toe with "him" and cite a wrongdoing and stand up for ourselves ???? If someone does something nice for you, even something you have deep gratititude for, and then goes forward doing many wrongdoings, does one overlook them because of the "good" ? No.

Now, I am saying that only to make a point, because there are ex-students who believe Ramtha is real, for their own reasons, even if they believe JZ is messed up. Allowing the wrongdoing, is wrong. I've watched this pattern for many years, myself.

I watched, at that November 2005 event, when "Ramtha" acted like a toddler having a temper tantrum, SCREAMING out Joe's name, and saying *uck him, to the entire audience, repeatedly for a long time. It was like he was inciting a riot. He talked about Joe negatively and then, went into this chant, flipping him off with both fingers and screaming this nonsense. When he finally stopped, he said to the audience (LOUDLY), "So what do YOU say ?"
Many, many in the audience, I would say at least 90%, screamed back, mimicking Ramtha, flipping Joe off and yelling *uck you. I didn't. I sat there and watched in disgust.

Now, make no mistake. I know Joe only has a casual acquaintance. If he saw me, he would immediately recognize me. We chatted a little bit a few times about science. I wasn't much into any social scene at RSE. I was there for the teachings and then I went home (far away). Period. But, what I witnessed that night, was a thinly veiled method of turning the students against Joe. Being as compliant as many of them are, like puppets, I would fully expect that they wouldn't dare be seen with Joe after that evening. Just like what happened with Audrey. She was accused of cheating at a discipline, and it really rattled the school. Students were divided amongst themselves into two camps; those that believed Audrey, who said she did NOT cheat (later she confessed after JZ made her an offer-deal....hmmm..), and those who felt she was being ousted because the teachings were going more global in the marketing strategy, and the focus was more on JZ as "Magic Number One" student, so it wasn't prudent to have Audrey in any limelight anymore. So much for conflict resolution !

An ex-students loyalty to Ramtha, if they believe there is, or was, a Ramtha, should not, in my opinion, ever outweigh upholding integrity for what's right - and for what's not. For the sake of argument I will say something that I've said before and again, this is my opinion (to each their own). If Ramtha allows these behaviors to go on, when he has expressed strong opinions about many other things in the school, about students, about the world and humanity, then it is only intentional that he would allow JZ to act like a sociopathic guru. NO student should allow that. If they are in a position to shine light to expose her shenanigans, they have a moral obligation to do so. Ramtha can either support that stand for integrity and nobility, or sit down and shut up.

No fear. No need for fear. We need to take a stand for ourselves and not be mistreated, or wrongfully treated.

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:38 pm

"Is it that they don't know....or is it that they don't want to care?"

(a bit from "critical mass/wind on the water by CSN)

"Over the years you swam the ocean following feelings of your own....but now you are washed up on the shoreline"....

How many RSE's realize they rely on jrk's feelings, and their "own" are deeply buried?

Carry me home, I said to myself-and here I am. I see the entire experience threw a new eye, over a year later. How COULD I believe such a thing? I was so sincere in my endeavour, but oh, that's what RSE counts on. The "magical" first events and all the new experiences and supposed knowledge.

"Maybe they'll go, maybe they'll disappear..." (the corrupt teachings and abuse with those feeling their "own feelings" - something they most likely haven't experienced in some time.

"it would be a shame for the spirit to die" for the sake of jrk's sefl-fulfillment.

One can only hope- Wake up and rest softly, RSE'ers.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:34 am


I had not been aware of how Joe D had been treated, though I must say it does not surprise me. While I have written some about Joe with regard to his appearance in WTB and his touting of the "You create your own reality" philosophy. I never got the impression that he was out to pull the wool over anyones eyes. My impression was and still is that he feels that he has something to offer that will help relieve people who are suffering and offer something healing.

That said, so was the guy who invented the lobotomy. I do not mean to imply that Joe or what he teaches is on that level, only that as one attempts to bring good into the world with good intentions it doesn't always work out that way.

I am surprised that he has not detached himself more from the school and the teachings as he seems to have been making efforts towards more mainstream acceptance.

During the time my daughter was there he was probably INDISPENSABLE to JZ and RSE. Unfortunately, the majority of "neuro-nets" being changed were being changed to fit JZ's agenda. He is an excellent speaker and able to engage those to whom he speaks.

It appeared to me that out of all the people in WTB he was the one who stood (of the RSE folks)out as more palatable. JZ felt fine then to use him and his new found celebrity to gather more recruits for the school. Yet, as that celebrity began to gather more steam it appeared that he became more expendable.

This is one of the hallmarks of a destructive cult. Members are loved when they agree and submit, but if they get sick, disagree, have autonomy, or begin to take the limelight from the leader they are not only out in a New York minute, but their history becomes re written also.

This is also one of the things that makes this type of group different from a mainstream religious group. When their membership is sick or the community is in trouble they take up a collection or volunteer time to help.

Unfortunately, our current administration behaves much in the same way as RSE, when former high up staff have the courage and integrity to tell the real goings on and truly "enlighten" (making the unknown known) the rest of us, administration hatchet people go to work on them. Scott Ritter, Paul O'neil, John Bolton, Scott McClellen and Richard Clark just to name a few.

Truth is always a difficult thing to keep secret, there are always those willing to put their personal interests aside and be willing to state their own personal failings and the reasons for them in order not only to redeem themselves but to help those who come after them from falling into the same type of traps.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:25 pm

JTR said, "Truth is always a difficult thing to keep secret, there are always those willing to put their personal interests aside and be willing to state their own personal failings and the reasons for them in order not only to redeem themselves but to help those who come after them from falling into the same type of traps."

You are a good writer, JTR.

Yes, that particular comment sums it all up. I wish so much Joe would speak out OVERTLY. NONE of us has been harmed and IF there is any fear there - for him or anyone else who fantasizes about posting but is afraid to, just go for it. The boogy man/woman isn't going to get you. S/he's just a bully with a bark that's bigger than his/her bite.

More 2 cents from Whatcha

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Dr Joe

Unread post by Tree » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:53 am

one never knows where another "ex' member stands in their a) beliefs or b) exiting process until one has a one on one.
Thus far, it is just my opinion, Joe still thinks that the enitty "Ramtha" exists and is still very very hurt by
JZ's actions, whom he was so privledged to know and drink many a toast with.
Not to mention the fact that, hopefully, by now, he is standing on his very own soap box actually helping people,
as his own experience of a broken back demonstrated to him the power of positive thinking.
Which, thusly, was mis-contrued/brainwashed into the teaching of Blue Body (insert trademark sign here) healing.

Thus, the tanlged web of brainwashing, removing critical thinking through NLP techniques and sleep and food deprivation,
and deceit.

I do not think there is one very clear cut path.

Blessings to us all.


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