The "Myth" of Ramtha

How is life after RSE? What negative effects are you dealing with? How has it affected loved ones? What has helped you towards healing and moving on? Share with others here.
Wakeup-Call
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The "Myth" of Ramtha

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:40 pm

fyi, this is probably a transitional method to help absorb the shock... but I have several friends (not yet "out" in the RSE community that they disbelieve) and one mental trick that is helping is to park some of the positives of our experience under the mental model of "The Ramtha myth" much like I think of the myth of Santa Claus.

Santa's not real but I can still aspire to living out the qualities I admire.

Yes, I think that the Ramtha myth has been much more harmful and destructive. I'm only sharing that this analogy is helping several of us process the loss of 10 years of our lives and sort out the good to take away from the experience.

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littlewiseone
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Unread post by littlewiseone » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:02 pm

Interesting... do you care to list some of these 'positives'...?
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

- The Beatles

Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:31 am

Sure!

1) Learning how to dance...which as an intellectual nerd type, I would never have gone and taken dancing lessons
2) Exposure to great music
3) Exposure to books I would probably not have found on my own - I think the truth that resonants and draws people to RSE is "recycled knowledge"
4) The practice of staying "calm in chaos" via the fieldwork and tank
5) My friend met a truly great guy (who also has kept his critical thinking skills) and he is a great personal friend
6) I found out I actually enjoy country living much more than the city life
7) Learning more about the possibilities of the human mind - it is remarkable to see Kenny read the cards. But again, that accomplishment isn't a Vindication of the Teachings (as JZR said in the Legacy Series Teachings) - it is a validation of the truth of the story of Henry Sugar's training.
8) I am "older and wiser" about what a wacko looks/acts/talks like and what a user looks/acts/talks like. I'm serious. It's a great life lesson. And I'm referring to the teachers and "inner circle" people as much as JZ.
9) Attended some great, wild parties...nothing one couldn't find at a frat party, but that was an experience I missed in life.
10) Seeing what I'm personally capable of potentially with the human mind. I still practice remote view and it is handy professionally.
11) The tape "Change/Allowing/Forgiveness" - the wisdom included there to be ok with people making their life choices and not expecting them to conform to what I wanted them to be for me.

Those were things that were valuable and positive for me personally.

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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:40 am

What I like about the "Ramtha Myth" is the idea of someone who's been around the block and takes the time to come help the bamboozled figure a few things out without any personal gain from it.

While that is not JZ nor her flying monkeys (in my opinion), I can still aspire to that ideal for myself personally.

I think of what JZR has said...that it's not a failure of the teacher if students can't apply what he teaches. (Uh, yeah - I actually think it is). Well, it's not a failure of the student's ideals if the teacher turns out to be a rube.

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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:14 am

I would say that it is definitelty the failure of teachers and a school if there is no graduation. Surely the purpose of a school is to have the students attain something not just continue year after year being told they are not good enough to acheive the goals of the school, surely the problem then is the teaching. Of course noone can ever graduate from RSE, its not a school, thats the biggest joke of all. Its a cult making money off mind control and fear.

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:02 pm

do you care to list some of these 'positives'...?
I actually think this is a double edged sword of an improportional size.

So as to "not throw the baby out with the bathwater" thing for , let's say, 20 years of a person's life,
yet, some of those very 'viable' things and experiences may still be HUGE triggers for a person in their brain
that has been messed with.

I have tried to come up with a list of "postive" things in the year and two months I have been out.

Right now, all of the people/friends I have met, 99% of them have tossed me out because I don't have the same belief system that they do.
How fricking allowing is THAT?
Places.... Yelm? defeinitely leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Things? Blue star (trigger....bs teaching borrowed from the pagans), blinders (anyone care to fly first class and not have the neighbors bother you? trigger). music ( I was a music major. If I hear Yanni in the Mall, I think I will literally vomit)
Times.....what? the great wine ceremonies? Sometimes like a frat party, other times you get raped. hmmm. :roll:
Events.... everyone of those teachings or events led to more brainwashing and taking of one's money.

Aside from these PPTTE (sort of a joke on a play on words from the teachings)

Dancing.....yes, I am still shy, but give me a few glasses of wine and I might not be.
making it to the void every time until group 10 was formed.....ok....so I can concentrate very well. hmm.But I did that BEFORE I came to RSE........Not sure what kind of attribute this is unless, as wake-up call said, I can be calm in chaos.
Next time hurricane winds hit, I think I will be fine.

no tapes or videos of teachings that have been borrowed have more of an impact than someone like Thich Nhat Hahn.
so I see no value in the "teachings".

What I think particularly stands out in Henry Sugar work is working for those who practice it.
It was NOT invented by JZ Knight. Nor can it be copyrighted.
But I STILL do not see anyone (and I am just not talking about Debbie Christie or Kenny Thompson) doing anything globally with the gift/attribute they have developed. Nada. Zip.
AND...if JZ Knight is so much greater than even THOSE two, why is she just not building orphanages, giving out scholarships like the BIll Gates
Foundation, giving away computers to people in Third World contries, or, for that matter, assisting the several rape victims that have been
assaulted on her very own property?
I see zilch going on in terms of helping the world, much less the students themselves. Honestly. See RSE for what it is.
Takers.
Which brings to mind the "teaching" : God is a giver, not a taker.

The results are in the pudding.

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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:46 am

Tree, I think Wake Up Call needs to feel as though those years and dollars weren't wasted. Of course all of those things could have been acheived and attained without paying over money to a cult. By the way my partner is still self-concious about dancing even when he is blind drunk so not everyone learns that lesson!

It would make the transition out of the cult much easier for most I think if they feel something positive was gained. I am happy though if anyone wants to see me I'll teach them all of those things (drunken parties with lots of dancing, card reading parlour tricks, meeting great people, opening up your mind, plagirizing other peoples work) for half the price and with no fear of the world ending!

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:27 am

aussiegirl wrote:I would say that it is definitelty the failure of teachers and a school if there is no graduation. Surely the purpose of a school is to have the students attain something not just continue year after year being told they are not good enough to acheive the goals of the school, surely the problem then is the teaching. Of course noone can ever graduate from RSE, its not a school, thats the biggest joke of all. Its a cult making money off mind control and fear.
Exactly ! RSE cannot AFFORD (quite literally) to have students, en masse, graduate and be INdependent !

Also, as Wakeup said in similar words, WE can aspire to loftier morals-values-etc OURSELVES, by our own commitment to our personal growth. We don't need ANYONE else to do that. WE do it for ourselves, and everyone benefits...without a fee, LOL !

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Unread post by Tree » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:48 pm

Tree, I think Wake Up Call needs to feel as though those years and dollars weren't wasted.
Yes, I agree. I quite understood that.
I was endeavoring to point out what "good" things came out of it for me.
I guess I didn't articulate that very well.

I just know for myself, all those times I made it to the void, the times I achieved Tohumo, the first conscious OOB experience I had,
I did those things. No one else did.
Yes, they could have been achieved anywhere else.
But I do not give JZR credit for ANY of those things.

I do think there was a social aspect, AT THE TIME, that I cherished.
Who wouldn't like a fun BBQ with similar thinking people enjoying the great outdoors?
Who wouldn't enjoy a wine ceremony with lots of libation and dancing?
Some of those were VERY memorable. Especially when I was on the front line of drummers.

In the context of the group socially, I had a great time, for the most part.
I am not going to trash that.

But now that I am out, I can see how dysfunctional it all is.
Even in dysfunctionality, people CAN have a good time. :D

So how to see those times in the grand scheme of things when you have just learned you have been a part of a cult.
I think very difficult to put the experiences somewhere so early on in exiting.

I think given time, mindless and simple things to do in recovering, reading, educating oneself about how groups work
and the after affects should be a gentle, self-guided process. And everyone is different in their make-up and how
much time it takes to process these things.

I still see some, um, "postive" things in the experience.
I do not see life's experience as the hole in the donut,
rather I see them as the donut.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:03 pm

Tree,

I understand what you're saying. A while back, a thread was talking about throwing the baby out with the bathwater...vs...not doing so. People are intuitive, there is a lot to the brain we don't yet understand (and much that we DO understand), and the mysteries of life are...mysteries. It's all okay. I had some experiences in, and out of, RSE. The key, as you said, is not attributing the ones while in RSE, TO RSE. WE did achieve those things. Many people have achieved OOB's, etc., who have never even heard the name of RSE. Books are written about the experience's of others along those lines. Not "how-to" books; I'm referring to common people who are just sharing their experiences, even when they don't understand how it happened, but that it did happen. MY OPINION is that it's an error for any of us to be so tossed about in our heads, that we leave a place like RSE, and throw away our spirituality because of it. Or once we're recovering, not be willing to credit the fun times we had, too. Saying we had fun times, or funny times, while we were in RSE doesn't equate saying RSE is The Place to be; it sure isn't.

I know YOU know these things...I'm just yacking away.

(Everyone) .... Speaking of intuition, I'll share something that will later be proven right or wrong.
About a week ago, I had a vivid dream that my grandchild was born, and laying in MY crib. Since I know I will be babysitting half the week while my daughter returns to her practice, that's not hard to believe. The baby was laying on it's back, with a white outfit on, that had pale yellow and powder blue tiny baby designs on it. I took that to mean it is a boy. I also clearly saw his hair; dark brown. Not a lot of thick, long baby hair, but a full head of dark brown peach fuzz hair. Time will tell how prophetic my dream was. Mom is only about 10 - 11 weeks now, so she isn't even getting a ultrasound that can tell the gender for several more weeks.

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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:41 am

I appreciated all the comments here.

Maybe "positives" isn't the best term. I think the thread here evolved to commenting on "experiences of value." And I hope that lurking readers, people considering making the journey to Yelm to meet the great teacher might read this and realize exactly what we're saying. These experiences are available in your own backyard if you just look a little closer and buy a few books.

I agree with Tree that the social loss is a huge aspect to deal with. Most people dealt with this as they got involved with RSE and it was painful then. I lost life-long pals who were deeply embedded in Christianity. I certainly have no desire to return to a church. But I know I'm going to have to address the need for a new social network in the coming months.

At any rate, I'm sure this is a big factor for people on an unconscious level to even engage their critical thinking abilities and evaluate information on this forum - especially if they moved to the Yelm area, live on a shoe-string, and their business is centered on RSE students. I can think of a good example - Stephanie Ray and the high-priced Masters Connection ads and website business. If she walked away, what on earth would that woman do to survive? Yes, we always have options. But in another thread David McCarthy was very compassionate about what it takes to look at the truth and cope with it, much less the personal fallout.

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Unread post by HumblePied Piper » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:56 pm

I am speaking from an observational stand-point-

all the people I have met that have been involved at RSE... and I do say ALL that I have met, have either shared with me a dysfunctional family in their youth, a dysfunctional social network in their youth, or have given me the impression that their SOCIAL SKILLS had never matured. It is not with judgement that I say this, because my partner is one of them. It is with sadness. I believe part of the alure is for someone who has always had a "hard time fitting in" to come to a place where they are now socially accepted... and even exalted (if they pay for enough events)

these are not "dumb" people. my partner is a Ph.D, yet has been enslaved by the same cult-mentality as any other who is less educated. it seems, i even get a bonus by having my partner be one of the girls that received JZ's scholarship that payed for her undergraduate. add on those conflicting (feeling of gratitude to JZ?) emotions... sigh...

any, it is just my observation of people from RSE that I have met... which is a total of around 20.
i intend no judgement or harm, so please take what you like and leave the rest

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Unread post by Tree » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:44 pm

I would have to agree with you Humbled Pied Piper.
Every one of my "friends" during my tenure at RSE had some large
degree of dysfunction in their lives as children.
Children of alcoholics, abused as children, etc

I have a theory that the more severe the abuse as a child, the closer to the inner circle you are/get.
That is JUST MY THEORY and OPINION.

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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:06 am

I would have to disagree about the dysfunctional childhood, my partner had a wonderful happy childhood with loving parents and has had a pretty typical life since. Good jobs, nice lifestyle, happy long term relationships with women. Its just the RSE stuff that makes him a bit weird, apart from that he's a really normal funny intelligent man.

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Unread post by HumblePied Piper » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:38 am

aussiegirl wrote:I would have to disagree about the dysfunctional childhood, my partner had a wonderful happy childhood with loving parents and has had a pretty typical life since. Good jobs, nice lifestyle, happy long term relationships with women. Its just the RSE stuff that makes him a bit weird, apart from that he's a really normal funny intelligent man.
I have stated this opinion with my partner, too, and she believes that I am mistaken. Perhaps I am looking through blinders about that aspect... still, I am convinced that people are MORE susceptable of entering RSE with a beat down self-esteem/self-worth. A need to be better than the next person... the Type-A personality... (which I could have labeled all these on myself, prior to working a 12 step prog... let me rephrase, that "you" could have labeled me with, because I didn't recognize those traits in myself)

And then the further beat down of self, in that you must conform to the teachings (so your personal thoughts aren't valuable... all that you've thought before is wrong) Here is the secrets of the universe, taught by an ascended being who is beyond questioning.

I think I need to approach my partner in a different path... I just watched the Hal Mansfield interviews and heard some keen insights. I want to fix her, and I am aware that that won't work. However, I do want to nudge her into questioning her "truths".
Stopped going to the hardware store to get milk.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:42 am

Humbled,

Hal is a great guy. He's been working with cults and gangs for many, many years, and has seen a lot. Real down to earth guy; straightforward and helpful as he can be.

If you confront (nicely, aggressively, doesn't matter), your partner, she's going to smell a rat and probably get defensive. I could be wrong but I honestly believe that the "key" is the right TIMING. Sooner or later, students have doubts. They may well not verbalize it; likely won't. But it's the little things that you can say in a non-confrontational way, that can be the seeds that later flourish and bloom. Using "I" statements is good.

Example: I don't understand why Ramtha is telling people the world is coming to an end and they need (food storage, UG's, etc), when he went through all the effort to teach that God is within and Behold God. It just seems to me that the world would be healed if that were true.

Maybe that's not the best example, but my point is that when you comment, YOU are the one talking about yourself, so it's not eliciting a defensive reaction, or feeling like she should/would want to be defensive, TO react to just how unenlightened you are. (giggle)

As for the childhood thing...mine wasn't perfect (of course), or idyllic, but overall, it was normal; mom, dad, nice house in the 'burbs, etc. I am certain my draw to RSE was the marketing and my own vulnerability to the "metaphysical" message because of my own experiences intution, and wanting to know more. I had been seeking a number of "teachers", and didn't have all my eggs in the RSE basket. Actually, because I experienced quite a few others at the same time, it probably helped me to remain somewhat detached from the intensity of the RSE dramas. It also gave me the insight into comparison of RSE and "Ramtha's" disposition, relative to the other teachers, who ALL had a much more mild mannered and respectful disposition.

I know that for some of you readers/posters who have partners in RSE, or other family/friends, it's so hard to grasp how in the world a person can get sucked into a place like RSE. At the same time, I have met a number of you posters who have endured the issues that having an RSE partner brings into your relationship, and asked myself, "Why in the world do they stay with an RSE student as a partner, when there are so many other fish in the sea ?" Yes, I understand you love them, even though they may frustrate you at times with their RSE beliefs. My point is that in a way we share something in common; when there is something you believe in, and care about, you can overlook some of the "bad", stay attentive to the "good", and hope that the good will prevail in the long term.

I really hope that your relationships will work out for you (all) to be together, happily, despite RSE's influence. It did for my husband and I, if that's any consolation that yes, it can work out "happily ever after". I'm sure at times, we were ready to throw each other away, but it's clear to me now, that the bond we have, that wasn't even as clear to me then as it is now, was stronger than either of us knew.

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Unread post by aussiegirl » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:22 am

HumbledPied Piper - I have definitely learned from this forum not to confront my Ramster partner anymore but to seed things into conversations as delicately as possible. He is on the defensive all the time about RSE (because of how vocal I was at the beginning of our relationship) so I need to be extremely cautious how I bring things up. We really dont talk directly about the school and Ramtha anymore - how can we when I think its a massive con and a cult and he thinks Ramtha is the greatest teacher he has ever had. We do however still discuss some concepts related to the school as my partner's belief system is a big part of his life and who he is so I can't just ignore it completely. As he is removed physically from the school he is less influenced by some of the things that go on as he would be if he still attented retreats, but that basic belief exists (after 20 years its not going away in a hurry). I believe that one of the most obvious things that would cause questioning even with a devoted Ramster is the all the talk about theend of the world, my partner is always talking about creating your own reality - well hello? who wants to create that reality? It doesn't make sense, it really doesn't make sense. If we discuss the doomsday stuff my partner always refers to the fact that its just a possibility - but I get the impression from this forum that its not really taught that way by the school, more of a fact that its going to happen, so if your girlfriend is attending the school and getting the end of the world message as well as the we create our reality one then surely this is cause for some questioning? but go gently

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:20 pm

I would have to disagree about the dysfunctional childhood
let me say I did NOT say EVERYONE who attended, or has attended RSE has a modicum of dysfunction.
I, myself, grew up in a very wealthy, well-balanced, somewhat type A personality household.

Every cult/group has its' draws. I was not making a generalization about dysfunction in childhood
or I. Q.

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Unread post by Marie » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:42 pm

I recall reading in either Margaret Singer's book, Cult's Among Us, or Peter Olsson's book, Malignant Pied Pipers, or both, that part of the cult indoctrination or process is to suggest or manipulate in subtle ways that one rewrite one's own personal history so that it gives one more of a reason to belong to that cult or to fit in... It also gives the cult leader more leverage .....

It has been my observation after over 20 years of recovery from active alcoholism that we ALL have issues, we ALL have backgrounds, we ALL have things we need to work on.... some more than others and to greater and lesser degrees.... I think that cult environments tend to focus on those issues more in order to give people "reasons" to belong to the cult... It just tends to dovetail into the "I am special" thing... I have heard my mother tell people recently about "abuse" she has suddenly recalled from her own family of origin and to be honest, I don't think it ever happened..... She suggests in subtle ways to her sister that *I* am emotionally abusive toward her, which is just totally crazy..... My sister, also seems to want to live in the past and focus on the endless wrongs done to her in childhood....it just seems to make her own position loftier, holier than thou and in some sick way, make them both "more special" and have more reason to want to "seek enlightenment".........Or, maybe they are both just mirroring the abuse that JZ herself suffered as a child.... as it is my belief that cult members tend to be little mirrors of the leaders personality and issues.......

My point is, who doesn't have some form of "dysfunction" in their own family???...... We all think that looking at other people from the outside, that "we" are the only ones whose family did this or that, but really, most people just don't wear that on their sleeves, so who'd know??......

Humbled, my mother and sister and her husband have been heavily into rse for over 8 years... I think my sister for over 20.......and my mother's sister and brother, my aunt and uncle and his wife, are now fringe rse... so I have bascially over half my family involved in this ridiculous cult.......When my mother started talking seriously of moving to Yelm last year, that's when I started looking into it more, as she is 75 and currently lives with me on the east coast.... I was being the concerned daughter and wanted to know more about "this thing" she was involved in.... Prior to that, I knew they attended events twice a year and my opinion of mandatory paid spiritual events was not high, but hey, it was her thing and I did not notice any outward harm being done so, it's the "god of her understanding" right??.....I know it is typical when you first find out about the magnitude of the whole thing to search for reasons "why"........It's human nature, if you can find out "why" then you can "do" something about it... And really, in fact, there is no pat answer... It's like alcoholism, cult members come in all shapes, sizes, reasons and degrees.... And if you have been in a 12 step program, then you know that really there isn't much one can "do" to or "for" the person who is involved .... Like alcoholism, all you can do is let them make their choices, it IS their life.... and be there for them when and if they decide that is not the life they want.... All you can do or decide, is how much of the ride you want to be part of....

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:53 am

Tree said, "Right now, all of the people/friends I have met, 99% of them have tossed me out because I don't have the same belief system that they do.
How fricking allowing is THAT? "

I've been thinking about this more. I experienced the same thing. When students found out that I wasn't coming back to my next required event, I was dropped like a hot potato by most of those 4th seal Gods (not).
A "quitter" is viewed as a failure who can't cut it in the school and do the Great Work. Not so. We just realize that while we did want the Great Work, we didn't FIND IT THERE. We all have what it takes to Do the Work, because we DID do arduous disciplines. Some of us sillies did them for many, many years (hiding my head in a paper bag). We have tenacity, perseverance, etc. What we've endured since leaving RSE, and the accusations against EMFer's, which they all consider us ALL to be, are weak. They sling names like they are Ramtha having a temper tantrum. Ever seen that ? It's a sight. Shameful. (think wine ceremony)

We get tossed out by current students not because we are quitters without the same belief system as them; but because THEY cannot handle that broad of a scope in their life, for interacting with people. For as enormously, universely, cosmically OPENminded that they believe they are; they are SO NOT that. They can't wrap their wits around (I'm not saying ALL of them, but many of them), DIVERSITY. They can only wrap their wits around being with LIKE MINDED people. It's a form of prejudice, with arrogance. However, I also think they are filled with fear, not because of just the Days To Come stuff, but because they might crack if they face someone who has left the school, and the doubts that could raise within THEM. We've already faced our doubts. We don't run and hide from relationships with them; they do. That's why they will differentiate us vs. them (non students fall back into the category of being villagers, whom a student mustn't cast pearls before swine/villagers).

It keeps THEM imprisoned, while they have themselves convinced and look to surround themselves with likeminded people to support, that they are the special, radical few. So long as they think along the party line (RSE), they are special. Anyone who isn't part of that party-line-mold must be released so as not to threaten to crack the mold. Doesn't matter WHO we are, just THAT we are....we threaten the existence of their reality in the brainwashed state of being.






Places.... Yelm? defeinitely leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Things? Blue star (trigger....bs teaching borrowed from the pagans), blinders (anyone care to fly first class and not have the neighbors bother you? trigger). music ( I was a music major. If I hear Yanni in the Mall, I think I will literally vomit)
Times.....what? the great wine ceremonies? Sometimes like a frat party, other times you get raped. hmmm.
Events.... everyone of those teachings or events led to more brainwashing and taking of one's money.

Aside from these PPTTE (sort of a joke on a play on words from the teachings)

Dancing.....yes, I am still shy, but give me a few glasses of wine and I might not be.
making it to the void every time until group 10 was formed.....ok....so I can concentrate very well. hmm.But I did that BEFORE I came to RSE........Not sure what kind of attribute this is unless, as wake-up call said, I can be calm in chaos.
Next time hurricane winds hit, I think I will be fine.

no tapes or videos of teachings that have been borrowed have more of an impact than someone like Thich Nhat Hahn.
so I see no value in the "teachings".

What I think particularly stands out in Henry Sugar work is working for those who practice it.
It was NOT invented by JZ Knight. Nor can it be copyrighted.
But I STILL do not see anyone (and I am just not talking about Debbie Christie or Kenny Thompson) doing anything globally with the gift/attribute they have developed. Nada. Zip.
AND...if JZ Knight is so much greater than even THOSE two, why is she just not building orphanages, giving out scholarships like the BIll Gates
Foundation, giving away computers to people in Third World contries, or, for that matter, assisting the several rape victims that have been
assaulted on her very own property?
I see zilch going on in terms of helping the world, much less the students themselves. Honestly. See RSE for what it is.
Takers.
Which brings to mind the "teaching" : God is a giver, not a taker.

The results are in the pudding.

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Unread post by Tree » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:10 pm

They can't wrap their wits around (I'm not saying ALL of them, but many of them), DIVERSITY. They can only wrap their wits around being with LIKE MINDED people. It's a form of prejudice, with arrogance. However, I also think they are filled with fear, not because of just the Days To Come stuff, but because they might crack if they face someone who has left the school, and the doubts that could raise within THEM.
This is so utterly true. The RSE students cannot see the forest through the trees here (no pun :lol: )
I think that is why in town I either got nasty looks or just the usual stare down. (not to mention harassing phone calls
and stalkers).
Only ONE person in the last year and 3 months has had the balls to come up to me and ask me my stance on RSE and JZ.
And at the time, I gave her the best answer possibe in that veggie aisle at Safeway.
I do think my answer would be a wee bit different now, but I answered her question as honestly as I knew how at the time.
(she was a former staff member as well).
If they each dared themselves to ask David, or myself, or any other former member, I think that would 1) show more open mindedness
2) it may just start to be the easing of the crack of truth starting to re-from.

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:32 am

Tree said, "If they each dared themselves to ask ..."

IF (and of course, they're not for the most part), thinking for themselves, and they dared to question and want answers that aren't just someone spitting out the politically correct RSE dogma-answers, then they could ban together and demand accountability from RSE. How novel it would be for that to happen from CURRENT students in the school...a level beyond us ex-students who are daring to ask the hard questions and demand/expect a higher standard, and accountability. If they would stop giving their power away to JZR to think for them, and tell them what reality is and why, they could make change in whatever way it would shake down.

I expect it would bring upon the end of the school, but my post is not intended to suggest that as the goal. I think it would be a natural side effect.

What if JZR held a "march" and nobody came ?

They all really GRADUATED !

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Unread post by G2G » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:50 am

""What if JZR held a "march" and nobody came ? ""

She'd probably charge $1000 a head, at that as part of "not coming" to her march which she "manifested" as such!

How about a march with everyone asking for a refund since no "toyotas" fell from the sky? :wink: :wink: :wink:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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