Just wondering ...

How is life after RSE? What negative effects are you dealing with? How has it affected loved ones? What has helped you towards healing and moving on? Share with others here.
Caterpillar
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:11 am

Just wondering ...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:48 am

Dear EMF
Thank you for setting up EMF. I don't know if I belong here but I really enjoyed reading some of the posts and also watched a few of your videos. I'm fascinated with posts from Tree as she was part of staff. It was an eye-opener. Thank you for your candid posts.
I'm a 'struggling' current student and have been in RSE for under 10 years. My partner is also in RSE but may not return to RSE to stay current (due to financial reasons and no manifestations). I was inspired to move to Yelm and dreamt of working for RSE. However, I had a reality check after reading some of your posts and decided I didn't want to move to Yelm to 'suffer' as most of you have.
I'm coming from a perspective that I think Ramtha could be real but I cannot prove or disprove it. I love the core teachings and that's the main reason I stay current. However, I am disappointed and angry that the actions of JZK, staff and students often clash with the teachings. There is certainly a lot of hypocrisy going on.
I didn't know what FEAR was until I came to RSE. I have made some unwise financial decisions based on the FEAR of days to come. I'm in the process of recovering from the regret as I'm now much poorer $$$. I've been another fanatic of RSE! Eventhough I'm current, I'm lazy and don't do my disciplines and am quilty of being just a philospher. Hence, I haven't manifested anything from the teachings.
My reason for posting is I don't know whom to 'vent' as most of my RSE friends seem to be preparing for earth changes and usually do their disciplines. I find some consolation when I read your posts as I can relate to everything you say. My observation from reading your posts is that even after leaving RSE, the teachings still infiltrate through your thoughts and it seems that only other ex-Ramsters can understand. Is that one of the reasons why some of you still live in the Yelm area? Just wondering.

I've the following questions:
-Does anyone know what happened to the 2 students that did the Torsion process in Assay 3 in 2003 and disappeared. They only came back for their required events. Ramtha was supposed to have taken them to the 23rd universe. Is that proof that the teachings work if focused? How come the students never showed themselves and relate their experience to us doubters?
-Does anyone know any of the remarkable students personally eg Kenny. He seems to be proof that the teachings work. He spent whole days and all free time staring at the cards. Debbie is another one.
-Has anyone ever asked JZK why the hypocrisy and plastic surgery? Who shops at JZRose - she markets to RSE students via email but aren't most of the students too poor to purchase her upmarket products? Isn't her store in the city prone to earth changes?
-Does RSE have shareholders - nothing more has been said since the initial email. Only the rich in the school could afford but isn't it only a handful? Same with the auctions. Who has the money?
-Why so many deaths in the school? Has anyone ever questioned JZK or Ramtha? I have doubt whenever I make a toast to 200 years or more as other students are dying.
-I heard that Audrey Wolfe is back as a student. Has anyone seen her?
-A staff member is promoting MLM and also advertising in the SuperConsciousness magazine. Isn't that contrary to the teachings?

So many doubts ... Thank you for reading.

Caterpillar, dreaming of being the butterfly but struggling with monkey mind.

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:55 am

Dear Caterpiller-

Wow. A huge thank you for posting. And quite brave and forthcoming.

I can totally relate to where you are at. Every aspect from not doing the disciplines
right now, to making crappy monetary decisions, to questioning things
the big guy has stated.
I need some time to digest how to respond, but I can answer a few questions
without batting an eye:

-Does anyone know what happened to the 2 students that did the Torsion process in Assay 3 in 2003 and disappeared. They only came back for their required events. Ramtha was supposed to have taken them to the 23rd universe. Is that proof that the teachings work if focused? How come the students never showed themselves and relate their experience to us doubters?

I thought about this alot when I was in the place where you are at.
NOW, I think, without a doubt, this was total bs.
Same with the infamous lines of "three people have bio-located during this run of the tank."
I had ten friends who claimed it was them who had bio-located.
How in the hell can you know if you have blinders on?? :shock: That made me laugh
as I made it to the void in the tank every time until group ten was formed.
And at that point, I was denied entry by rambles because he said to me:
"this is not for your best interest in evolution at this time". He told me to go back and find
the entrance, which I did. And it was the only time I got mad as hell in the tank
because I had found the secret latch but was denied by rambles and I trusted what he had to say
what was for my "greater good".

-Does anyone know any of the remarkable students personally eg Kenny. He seems to be proof that the teachings work. He spent whole days and all free time staring at the cards. Debbie is another one.


I personally knew both Kenny and Debbie.
I think Kenny is still a raging alcoholic. And Debbie states she is happier than she has ever been and cannot fathom
even entertaining a life with a partner or anything else other than practicing her cards and watching tv.
Henry Sugar candles works.
No other teachings produced these results.
So JZ has used the Henry Sugar book to tout that ALL of the teachings and disciplines work.
I do not know anyone who is being altruistic and "god like" in their being and giving out hundreds of dollars
like Henry Sugar did. Even jz has not given any scholarships since the late 80's. She is riding on what she gave over
20 years ago. I don't find this consistant in accordance to the teachings and the story of henry sugar, which is NOT
her idea. BLatantly plagiarized.

-I heard that Audrey Wolfe is back as a student. Has anyone seen her?

she has never left the area or the school. She was a personal friend of mine. I had lunch with her right before I left
late last summer. Wonderful lady, btw.

-A staff member is promoting MLM and also advertising in the SuperConsciousness magazine. Isn't that contrary to the teachings?

I believe they see this as their own personal manifestation. "Look ma! I manifested my card in real life!!"
One would think that these 2 ideas go hand in hand with seeing other teachers or channels, but I think that is a fuzzy
line. I still think they see it as a justification of their own creativeness.


-Why so many deaths in the school?


I have wondered that over and over again, especially while I was in RSE.
The number of suicides alone was enough to constantly keep myself on guard.
And Yugi's death in the audience (his family and my family ran in somewhat the same circle as
we all had kids who went to the Waldorf school in Olympia) was just an earth shattering experience,
as I had to deal with all the teenagers that night when he died. NOT to mention the fact that
rambles claimed over and over and over again that "no one has EVER died in my audience."
Well, THAT line went out the window.
The kids were especially shattered.
of all the parents in that little circle,
Yugi was the most dedicated, least fanatical,
even keeled, did his disciplines twice a day for quite a length of time,
and he still died, IN AUDIENCE.
Every one of those kids that witnessed this declared at that time and instance
that Ramtha was full of sh*(.

All it takes is for incidences like this to pile up
and jz will have no way of explaining these contradictions.
it will all be self evident.

Caterpillar
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:11 am

Just wondering ... current students lament

Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:25 pm

Tree, thank you so much for your reply. There aren't any current Ramsters/Ramblers I can confide in as I feel like a traitor. I'm so glad that EMF exists!

I was also shocked at Yugi's death. Ramtha's reply was that he had a choice to come back but didn't want to and chose instead to visit the 23rd universe with another comrade who had just died. I have used this as an excuse not to bother doing much with the earth changes preparation as Ramtha will meet me at the light and take me to 23rd universe. Much easier than building a UG. :lol:

Being part of staff, have you ever questioned Ramtha, JZ or your colleagues over the hypocrisy? Did anyone dare?

My partner is also reading your reply and loves your sincerity. He wants to know if you have ever met anyone who after going to RSE for a while, life has gotten better - they are healthier, wealthier, happier and glad they went to the school?

My observation is that the longer you stay current in RSE, the more cynical and poorer you become unless you were already wealthy before you went in. It appears to be the law of diminishing returns.

When I did my first beginners, I made a comment that there must be something wrong with the teachings if the school was going on for over 25 years and no one has ascended! I thought it was very 'cultish' behaviour with the hand gesture and 'so be it' and the loud music. Now, I behave in the same manner...

Caterpillar looking for green leaves

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:41 pm

There aren't any current Ramsters/Ramblers I can confide in as I feel like a traitor.
Hi Caterpillar-
I can again, totally relate.
I have 2 separate experiences on this account alone.

Several years ago, Debbie's (Master of Music) life partner just up and left RSE.
Poof.
Jan and Debbie and I were very good friends at the time.
For months, for lack of better words, my cage was rattled.
I couldn't put a finger on it, but it was badly jarred.
Here was a very long time student, did her disciplines, very devout, high energy with a positive
outlook just up and bailed. She never told me why and I never asked.
I don't know why I never asked. Current students never do.
It's as if an invisible retainer is over their question box of their mouth.
I don't know how else to explain it.
A few years later, Jan came back and visited.
She looked great. Put on a few pounds, but was a happy camper traveling all over the country.
I, of course, being indoctrinated with the fear of traveling, thought she was nuts.
But again, we met for coffee.
And I never asked.
And she did not tell.
I felt she was a traitor,
but even more,
I felt like a traitor if I even thought of asking
and I felt like a traitor just having coffee with her. :roll:
I remember that experience and the feelings very vividly.

The second traitor experience coming to mind is when I discovered EMF and started posting my story.
Eee gads! You would have thought I killed 3/4 of the known earth (inside joke there :twisted: ) by posting
what happened to me.
Here I was, a very dedicated student, did my disciplines daily (until the last year when I started a little experiment
of NOT doing my disciplines just to see if my manifestations powers were more or less than when I did my disciplines. More on that later.), I was a dedicated worker as the school as I have 110% to the very grounds that I considered sacred.
I worked my ass off. (As do many of the staff there do. I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 people who are of the slacker variety. These people have a very good work ethic, in and of themselves but also jz would tolerate nothing less.)
I gave nearly every waking ounce of my life to that place, in addition endeavoring to be the best mother possible.
As I know jz values motherhood, I personally know that jz thought I was doing a great job in that department as well,
(as if I needed her approval, but when you are in the group, it DOES help to have the channel's approval on matters)
as my son worked for her as well, both up at the house and in her store. To this day, my son has an amazing work
ethic you don't find anymore amongst young people. I do attribute that to modeling on my part.

So here I was, dedicated student for 19 years, getting the evil eyes, phone calls, queries when I was having
some great garage sales with great prices on days to come items ;-)
just getting slammed right and left for just speaking out.
Well, the second shrink who saw me said that my entire environment was toxic to my being.
That pretty much solidified what my next move would be.
I didn't really care what I left behind.
I needed to go for my sheer sanity sake.

As I was auctioning off my more high priced items,
ONE of my former friends who was a mother in that small knit group
had the courage to ask me why I left the school.
I carefully, very carefully, chose my words according to
how I had been processing everything having been totally indoctrinated.
I showed her EMF. I showed her Darren Brown You Tube videos.
She already knew my story about the red guard and she knows I am not prone to lying.
She was then on overload.
She left saying, "well, I know what you are saying is true. And I know 2 other former staff members
stories and reasons for leaving (she knew those 2 very well). But, I like the information . I am not going
to shoot the messenger."
I knew when she left, I had rattled her cage.
And to this day, I hope it is still a very loud shudder in her being.
I am confident one day she will try to get in touch with me
and thank me for being allowing.
But that one person does not make up for all the nasty warriors at the post office and Safeway.

Being part of staff, have you ever questioned Ramtha, JZ or your colleagues over the hypocrisy? Did anyone dare?

When I first started working there, I will never forget Michelle R telling me:"do not speak unless spoken to" (by jz)
That pretty much sums it up.
You put your nose to the grind stone, and do not question.
There was one particular hypocritical incident that was my very first red flag that I never did anything about.
On staff, we pretty much know what the schedule is going to be.
unless it is for like an assay or something. Which, for the most part, comes at the whim of jz.
But a schedule is pretty much laid out in advance.
One morning, field work was to be scheduled after breakfast which was scheduled after sitting in the field looking to the
east.
Well, we sat....sat.......sat......sat......focused.....hours went by.
breakfast was never called.
at this time, I have to go to the bathroom.
So, I get up to go.
One of the green leads is questioned in the barn hallway about why is there no break called?
To which the answer was: " I don't know. but jz is up having coffee with Linda Evans and they are
chatting and laughing up a storm up at the house."

Well, you can imagine. I was aghast.
Here it looked like jz forgot to call down because she was socializing.
Later it was explained away that "ramtha saw that the group needed to focus more" that morning.

I never forgot that.

have ever met anyone who after going to RSE for a while, life has gotten better - they are healthier, wealthier, happier and glad they went to the school?

In a short answer, no.
In a longer answer, I do know students who stayed current who got the occasional lottery windfall ($930K), but they stayed in school, and the money went down the drain.
I know of no one who has manifested let's say fabulous wealth or the innate ability to heal with a touch or even anyone who has walked through a wall, much less ascended who has left RSE and said, "wow! that place rocks! I manifested x,y, and z and now it is time to move on!" Never have I heard of this.
I do know of people who have been endeavoring to re-build their lives
in the aftermath.
There are very very educated and talented people out here who are really trying to make a go
of their life after such heavy involvement.
It is alot of work. But in the end, I believe they are onto a better life after having such a huge detour wrought with potholes.

My observation is that the longer you stay current in RSE, the more cynical and poorer you become unless you were already wealthy before you went in. It appears to be the law of diminishing returns.

I can honestly say this is absolutely the way it is.
I have a litany of proof just in my experience with real estate brokers in the area since leaving RSE 2 years
ago next week.
I have had a total of 4 realtors now. This current real estate person is current in the school.
She is SOOOOOO SOOOOOO difficult to deal with.
I swore after the last ramster I would never work with one again.
If I could post her voicemails, I would.
One day, it's all sweet and rosy.
The next day, it's "my way or the highway!! and that is my truth as I see it in this present moment!!"
It is entirely maddening to deal with them.
Narcissistic, self serving, how can I squeeze the most $ out of someone, how can I just barrel through
and make this sale, etc etc
She left me voicemail yesterday saying, "now turn to your neighbor and tell them your truth" and proceeded to tell
me how emotional this one potential buyer is, how they don't understand the creating process because this person
is not in the school, etc etc. It is absolutely stunning.

there must be something wrong with the teachings if the school was going on for over 25 years and no one has ascended!


this was as serious concern on my part.
When I first entered the school in 1988, we were told the school would produce ascended masters in less than 7 years.
WHoo hoo!! Wow!! Count me in!! I am a sincere, devoted student who no longer sees the need for a capitalistic, greedy
society! This is the path for me!!
a few years after the initial 7, we were constantly being told we were not doing enough.
We were not dedicated enough.
Then we were not even worthy of a master teacher and he was going to leave!!
omg!!! try some more Tree!! More disciplines!! More food storage. More guns. More ammo.
The more I dedicated myself, the more I did not see the use for the outside world.
I was going to be greater than that.
I was going to ascend and have no further use for this crappy little planet on the edge of the ghetto of solar systems.

It's over 30 years now of these so called teachings,
and no one is doing close to miraculous things.
Sure, I have always been a big believer in "the power of positive thinking" , and,
whatever I put my mind to and give due diligence,
I always get what I have my dreams and goals set on.
But, ascension was not one of them.
Especially after I found out I was duped by a person who was charading as a hierphant.
It's just not going to happen.

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:08 pm

wish the edit button was still working, a few typos up there....

:roll:

My observation is that the longer you stay current in RSE, the more cynical and poorer you become

I thought of one more concrete example here.

Last spring, before I left, I did some work for some "masters".
Now, the guy who ran the little outfit and the people who I was doing the work for
did not know about my posting on EMF.
the guy who ran his little business, I will call him Rusty, was aware of the red guard incident
way back when it happened and had heard some rumors of my posting, but never saw EMF.
Now, they all have the thinking that I still think like they do.
You know, the side glance of "oh! he's just in his emotional body today!"
or
"dammit! I didn't create my day right this morning because I had too much wine last night."
(actual quotes)
So....
I was to dig several trenches with an excavator
and then fill in several other holes that were dug for septic drainage tests.
My son was working with me at the time and is a pretty sharp tac himself.
So, we both heard the instructions.

The next morning, we get to the site, and Rusty is just bursting at he jugular
as to why we filled in the holes?! I mean, this guy is screaming, cursing, not letting either
of us answer or anything.
He leaves us with more instructions for the day and leaves.

Same thing occurs the next morning.
He is absolutely livid with something we did wrong.
I mean, I thought he was going to have a heart attack right there.
He admits the night before he had 2 bottles of wine with the clients
(the clients each had their own 2 bottles each)
and that he was a little fuzzy that morning.

All I can say is that my son and I figured he was a pure alcoholic
and could not remember anything he had told us to do.
We had even written it down the second time,
to which he answered that we must have
heard him wrong.
Always always blaming someone else.
And not a bit pleasant about it either.
So much for taking everything with a light heart
:roll:

Whatchamacallit
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:31 am

PART ONE OF TWO

Hi Caterpillar,

Thanks for posting. You talked about doubt. I know that in the beginning, & considering exiting, it can be hard to do, but it gets easier. Ramtha won?t strike you down for it, as we can attest to. That is actually, a common fear. YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

My favorite book, Take Back Your Life by Lilich and Tobias, details the doubts, the thought processes, the emotions, behaviors and attitudes, that people have when they are in different "phases" of exiting a cult. It's really quite fascinating that we each leave due to different events that are the Final Straw for us. Yet, the phases we go through, are quite similar, though they vary on a continuum with regard to degree of time/intensity of each phase. Reading that book, written by former cult group members (not RSE), is like sitting down with the authors and having a cup of tea. It's so honest on a down-to-earth, real person level. As they write narratively about their own experiences, and relate that to the work helping others through the years, that they've done, the patterns emerge.
My point in saying that to you in this post, is that we are really all the same on many levels, as we heal, going through the phases of recovery...so YOU are not alone. When we start to entertain thoughts of leaving, we wonder if we're alone and feel guilt, etc. The group will encourage that guilt because after all, "doubt" is a dirty word.
Not really ! It's the beginning step to freedom and, taking back your life.
I don?t know how many posts you?ve read, so I won?t assume that you know my story. I started the teachings in October of 1986 with a group of people who ?studied? Ramtha (videos, books, audio tapes). I started attending events in Yelm early in 1990 and my last event was in 2006. I had a couple of years ?off? in the mid-90?s when I had several of my children close in age.

I always had doubt, and I struggled with it to more or less of a degree, throughout the years. For me, it was perhaps easier than with some people, to set my whirling thoughts (pros/cons) aside because I don?t live in the Yelm area, nor even close at all. So, I returned to my family and while I always had the teachings in mind, and kept up with books/audio teachings, and did SOME disciplines and DID get results from time to time, there was something wrong with that place. What I later realized, was that RSE was in no way responsible for any ?successes? I had doing disciplines. WE, as people, have an innate ability for a ?sixth sense?, so to speak. JZ sure has no license (or trademark) on any of that. Books are written, even from those in staunch religion groups, about experiences with angels, mother?s intuition, family ties that transcend life and death, being saved during a crisis, etc. RSE is not required for that aspect of our lives to be legitimate. Nor does it need to be tightly controlled and regulated, by the RSE dogma?or?as I recall ?Ramtha? saying in an audience (which made me laugh), the ?social consciousness that exists in RSE?. ?He? said it DOES exist, which surely it does; and it?s not the open mindedness, or freedom of thought, that students believe it is. It?s very controlled by the groupthink. I say that gently; I want you to understand that.

As the years progressed, especially in the very late 90?s, and into the 2000?s, I realized that in ways, things rapidly deteriorating in tone, all around. A blessing in a way, because it made stark delineations (my perception of right versus wrong) easy for me to look at (glaringly obvious leaving little room for doubt), due to the increase in severity of the wrongdoing at RSE. It pushed me out the door because I morally (at least) could not support what I experienced, directly or indirectly. I believe fully, that JZ Knight is a sociopathic ?guru?, a proven liar, (examples of that are posted on EMF), and a murderous fraud who should be convicted.

At that point, does it matter if Ramtha is real ???? If he isn?t, it all speaks for itself: JZ is a fraud. If he is, he is guilty of enabling JZ Knight, therefore ?he? is every bit as guilty as she is. Perhaps more so because if he exists he ?knows better? but is choosing to be an enabler. At that point, in my mind, I was FINISHED. My recovery path was underway, and that phase was emotionally painful. I was fortunate to have excellent support.

It?s common for people to leave places like RSE mentally, emotionally, psychologically, about 1 ? 2 years BEFORE they stop attending, PHYSICALLY. That, too, is addressed in that book. The authors, by the way, were both in ?cults? (not RSE) at one time, so they know from whence they speak!

On to answering your questions. (NEXT POST)

Whatchamacallit
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:35 am

PART TWO OF TWO

QUESTION: -Does anyone know what happened to the 2 students that did the Torsion process in Assay 3 in 2003 and disappeared. They only came back for their required events. Ramtha was supposed to have taken them to the 23rd universe. Is that proof that the teachings work if focused?

ANSWER: My belief is that nobody knows for certain that the event actually happened, because it was only HEARSAY. It is only on the faith of the students that one can believe that claim by RSE, is true. No proof. (I recall that event; I was there)

QUESTION: How come the students never showed themselves and relate their experience to us doubters?

ANSWER: Exactly. Most likely, because it didn?t happen. Think about this contradiction: Many times, students are encouraged to ?stand up? in the audience, when called upon to do so, when they?ve gotten their cards on the field, etc., etc., and the reason for that is to show the students that ?the disciplines work?. If something as big as two students dematerializing via the torsion process and rematerializing elsewhere, then Ramtha could have easily known it was going to happen in advance, and included a ?runner? as evidence to students that ?the disciplines work?. More than just philosophy. Instead, the magic and excitement of proposing that two students did it then leaves everyone else ramped up, wanting to go for the prize, themselves. This is a common tool used by cult leaders. That ever elusive dangling carrot.

QUESTION:
-Does anyone know any of the remarkable students personally eg Kenny. He seems to be proof that the teachings work. He spent whole days and all free time staring at the cards. Debbie is another one.
ANSWER: Cat, if you google something such as ?remote viewing playing cards?, you will see that there are people who have been working on that as a personal accomplishment, for many, many years. It is my OPINION that we all have the ability to have more/less success with that, if we choose to give it time to work on. That has nothing to do with RSE. It?s a tool that is used within RSE to keep JZ?s business going. I used to work with Zener cards from the time I was a kid, and I frequently had better than average ?success? with them. I was also pretty good at ?seeing the cards? at RSE and was able to ?stand up? many, many times. So what? I can?t play a piano worth a darn, but someone else will be (and is) a prodigy. For whatever reasons, these things come more or less easily to us, and that?s IF we even give the time of day to doing them.

If you want to have some fun with Zener cards, they are available to ?test yourself? and practice, for FREE, online. http://www.psychic-experiences.com/psyc ... -cards.php Not a big deal, imo. Just fun. I can sit and knit a scarf and that?s fun, too. That?s a far cry from insinuating that you can hone these skills and then be able to also, ?see the Ram?, or go to the 23rd universe, or ascend, etc. JZ crosses a line by making claims she cannot, and does not, fulfill in her students. Actually, it may be of interest for you to know that in a Complaint Letter that was filed with the WA State Attorney General?s office about 2 years ago, JZ Knight?s attorney responded on her behalf stating in writing, (and this is posted on EMF), that the teachings WERE NEVER INTENDED for people to do those things we ARE and WERE told we COULD AND WOULD DO. Attorney Kaukl stated that in fact, the teachings at RSE are ONLY intended for a person to have a happier, more fulfilling life (paraphrased). You and I and any ex/current RSE student knows full well that we were told the disciplines were designed by Ramtha TO WORK, and all we had to do, was implement them by enacting them?they would work. They would even over ride your doubt, too, because you deem it so. It?s simply untrue.

Further, and I won?t elaborate here, you know that JZ Knight claimed to have channel Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ben Joseph). Books, newspapers, audiotapes, audiences, where students or other listeners, experienced those ?teachings? by Jesus, via the alleged channel, JZ Knight. Well, Cat, in a court of law, in Autumn 2008, JZ Knight was asked under oath, if she did in fact ever channel Jesus/Yeshua and she said NO.


QUESTION:
-Has anyone ever asked JZK why the hypocrisy and plastic surgery?
ANSWER: I recall JZ herself (not as ?Ramtha?) addressing this and saying that she had the hair extensions, and facial work done to give her a focal point of reference (paraphrased) to focus on, reflecting ?youth?. I recall ?Ramtha? saying (excusing) JZ facial work by blaming one of her spouses, who allegedly called her ?ugly?, upsetting her SO much she ?had to? get plastic surgery done. It seems to me, and this is not a judgement, but an opinion; if she lived the teachings, she would not have had plastic surgery done more than once out of ignorance. As the teachings go. She had it because she can afford it and because she wants to look as young as she can, for whatever her reasons are. It IS a hypocrisy to the teachings. Students sit in stinky sweats, and are supposed to rise above their alter ego, but she does not do the same. She dresses in expensive clothes, even casually?and wears a boatload of make-up, etc. She?s ALL about image, which is 180 degrees opposed to the message s/he preaches from the stage. Cult leaders do that.

QUESTION:
Who shops at JZRose - she markets to RSE students via email but aren't most of the students too poor to purchase her upmarket products? Isn't her store in the city prone to earth changes?
ANSWER: Ohhh, stop asking all of these questions and thinking for yourself (insert laughter). Yes, most students are WAY too poor to purchase items at her store. I saw a simple lace tablecloth there for $1,500 years ago. Most students need that $1,500 to scratch together so that they can attend their next mandatory events.
?Ramtha? has said that a 25 mile radius outside of Yelm is safe from Earth Changes. ?He? also said ?Nobody will ever die in my audience?, and Yugi died in ?his? audience. A longtime student in the inner circle?dropped dead IN Blue College audience. My understanding is that the medical authorities were not even phoned to come for help for two hours. Someone correct me if that data is incorrect.

QUESTION: -Does RSE have shareholders - nothing more has been said since the initial email. Only the rich in the school could afford but isn't it only a handful? Same with the auctions. Who has the money?
ANSWER: Wow, really good inquiry. I had a period of time when I communicated (when EMF was in place already), with a person who attended RSE for a long, long time. This person chatted with me for quite a while, before finally saying they had something to share. I think, they were feeling me out to see if I felt safe to them. I will never repeat what I was told, beyond this, which I was given permission to share. That person wants/needs to remain anonymous, which is frustrating in a way, but I respect their choice. The person left RSE, after being hotly pursued by JZ (I was given copies of her emails), and also JZ?s accountant, for said person to invest in RSE. The person had a lot of questions and is high profile in their personal life. Anyway, in reading the responses to the questions, it was boldly clear to this (now) ex-student, that JZ was not interested in ?keeping the teachings pure? as we?ve been told and is used for the excuse to coerce students into signing the Conditions of Participation Agreement (gag order). The person realized that JZ had a PRICE and she was selling shares in RSE. They quit the school. As I said, there is even more to the story, but this is ?nuff said; the point is made.

QUESTION: -Why so many deaths in the school? Has anyone ever questioned JZK or Ramtha? I have doubt whenever I make a toast to 200 years or more as other students are dying.
ANSWER: Students are blamed for illness and death if they are students. They failed to achieve God-man-woman-realized for whatever reason/s. One thing you can be sure of, is JZ/Ramtha do not take responsibility for failure; it?s the students? fault, always. Sadly, some of the students fall into the trap of believing that lie. If a college professor had the failure rate that JZ/R does, s/he would be fired ! RSE is not a ?real? school; it?s a registered, for-profit BUSINESS. If you cannot pay for admission, even after many years, you will have a cold, hard lesson about how much Ramtha loves his people. You?ll be OUT. And, it will be blamed on you for not manifesting the money that JZ demands. Tsk, tsk.

QUESTION:-I heard that Audrey Wolfe is back as a student. Has anyone seen her?
ANSWER: I also heard she went back, and I have not seen her. I know she was back even after the attacks she endured there. My understanding is that she never left until a certain event which she missed, and then she returned later to another event. I don?t believe she was out for long. However, these comments may not be accurate.

QUESTION: -A staff member is promoting MLM and also advertising in the SuperConsciousness magazine. Isn't that contrary to the teachings?
ANSWER: After one of the MLM schemes that went through the school (there were many), I recall things getting very heated as some outside source was either starting to rear its head and look over that RSE wall, or there was serious concern it was about to happen. Students got a lecture from the stage about how there was to be not even a hint of MLM/ponzi scheme type of business underway on the premises. Contrary to the teachings ? Well, it?s sure not the same as pulling money out of the ethers.

Hope that helps your contemplations, Caterpillar !
Whatcha

See&E
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Unread post by See&E » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:01 am

Caterpillar,

Just reading your posts for the first time, and it appears that all of your questions have been addressed or answered.
I just wanted to share (as the others here have already) that we "all" have been there, and from time to time, may still be.
In time, with more and more distance, it is easier to begin the almost impossible task of sorting it all out. Not so unlike living in a big home, with lots of books, papers, notebooks, crayons, pencils, sleeping bags, camping equipment, tents, all weather gear, and 'child like' drawings with peculiar 'duct tape' borders or backing (insert laughter). If and when, someone has to leave (for whatever reason), depending on where and why one is moving (in this analogy) and one's personility, it depends on how that will be for you. Many of us, if not most of us, left, and retained books, tapes, notes, cd's, music, dvd's, vhs, you name it, and did I mention more truckloads of books? (ha!)

Your question about if/how/when one moves on and re-discovers their faith or rekindles a spirituality like one had before (Even their whole life prior to RSE) and during RSE is a good one. During the many years, the teachings (so called) we all wanted to master, and learn, did a very decimating, anhiliation to most, if not all religions, dogmas, and even audaciously claimed to know (And be part of all ages, times, pptte) the TRUE story, which was always different from what we were taught. As a result, once hooked, there was indeed a loss of credibility in the hypocrosy (we were always reminded) in anyone or anything outside the 'true' teacher. Slowly, we were turning our own journey, ironically, into the power of someone elses imagination, their own 'ulterior motives' which used nearly every metaphysical, new age, out of print, in print, current movie sound track, and nationl enquirer stories into the 'teaching du jour' and the 'music style du jour'.

Not only like saying goodbye to a 'home' but the many relationships, and expectations one had, and to fall into the suspension of disbelief while there (At some point, to some degree), was the final level of conditioning, that when one does leave....

There is the protective instinct ( a good thing) like recovering from a relationship, to "make note to Self: Let's not do THAT again!" and then, the rest is truly a journey--- and like bereavement or grief of any kind, it is not a linear process.

The first stages are the tickling of reason, and reality, slowly returning one to a new state of mind. Then, one might need to process or reason that it must have been true, at least at some time, or still is, or (whatever one can accept at that moment). More questions start coming to mind. Like the ones you are asking. The more one asks, the more the illusion on the production is slowly (or quickly under anger) brought down-- like striking a set of a production.

Some who have left, and shared here, and with us personally, immediately went to fill that with another group, or spiritual teacher, etc. It is something that most of us understand, for RSE was not our 'first' experience with entrusting our belief system to someone who proclaimed, and charismatically claimed to be THE channel, THE messenger, THE appointed, (fill in the blank).

In my case, I tried (in vain) to see if there might not be some group, organization, society, or doctrine, which might be the next experience I was ready for. But, in my case, the damage was done. For better or worse, I no longer see anyone or anything out in this world as even remotely possible to have the "secrets" or "mysteries", or at least have the "authentic" current time/age place where one can go to "really" learn.

The books, and all the stories, movies, legends, myths, etc.. in time, became more clear than ever, to all have been "variations on a theme". The old Persian, Egyptian, Druid, Celtic, Norse, (fill in dozens upon dozens of others)
actually tell the same tales. Now on television, or cable (or at your library) one can see factual comparisions of comparative religions, one's search for meaning in the world, universe.

In the end, we all age, go through the seasons of life. The number of years varies, and currently seems encouraging to live longer. This has been my experience, anyway.

I would love to find inspiration, motivation, the passion or sense of purpose, that I once ascribed to being a student, or the other names we called ourselves, and groups we were dubbed.

What I have found helps me, and maybe will be of some comfort to you... is to find opportunities to be in nature, to try to find meaning from my work and vocation.

For me, it is back to the traditional world of diagnostic medicine and healthcare. Not that it has all the answers at all. It is, however, something that (like mowing a lawn, or washing the dishes, or making a bed) one can actually see "before" and "after" cause, effects. Healthcare workers of any role, generally have really great desire to help others, or help ease the pain and suffering (and fear) of those who serve.

This is also mentioned, because I often think of two decades in the school/teachings. Somedays, (not every day) one sees new babies being born into this world, and the joy (in most instances) it brings those who are blessed with a new soul to join them, if but for a time. In the same day, it is still common to talk to those in their nineties or over a hundred, and see the return of the childlike joy. In between, there is every kind of condition, and a lot of fear, uncertainty, and prayer -- even by those who do not go to any church.

There does not seem to be any common demoninator, unlike the movies. Some people who "manifest" (Cough cough) old age, are meat 'n potatoes, smokers, drinkers nice/mean and in between. Some exercise and watch everything they eat, drink, and some of them have better test results (compared) to the norm, than others--- but what is not evident, is "proof" that one's particular religion, belief (or dis-belief) necessarily (in reality) determines how long one will live. Nearly every single person, has never been to the school, most have not read all the books, and would never know what 'disciplines' are in the sense we once knew is. Yet there are rich, and poor, very, very rich, and abject poverty.

I really think EMF is a great place one can read, freely choose whether to ever post, or not (reply).
It costs nothing, and there are some great resources here. Be sure and check out the original board(s) as well
as this forum. You may discover that your experiences and thoughts and feelings, were, and are, shared by others.

At one time, we WERE enthusiastic, passionate, devout members of at least RSE.

We're not 'sour grapes' or doubters. We just "woke up". We finally found our way out of the maze, and decided to (ironically) follow the words (from wherever they really came from) that may have drawn us to the organization to begin with.

Many of us, have gotten rid of most things, but we may still have full libraries or materials. Others, found healing in releasing their accumulated "things"

A hearty welcome to you, and I hope you find a forum and way to help you on your own contemplations, as you seek new green leaves--- and you may still turn into a butterfly... not to worry, you just don't need to pay money, time, to do it.

Take care,

See & E

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:12 am

truly..... a round of applause for this post.......

Caterpillar
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:11 am

Just wondering ... Current students lament

Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:15 pm

Hello Tree, Watcha and See & E,

Thank you all for your replies. Lots to contemplate on. Will check out the links.

Watcha, I did have a 'subconscious' fear of Ramtha sending me a big Runner for even reading and posting here. Like the Catholic church, God is going to punish. Where can I confess? :lol:

I was aware of the LARSE group and and now EMF but haven't paid much attention until the last week. You have done a great job in making others aware of what they will be in for.

RSE sounds like a mini Scientology and they LOVE movie stars. I now realize why Salma is JZ's best friend. Thought it was Linda E. Great for publicity!

Tree, it must be tough living in Yelm. Good on you for speaking up and posting here. I'm glad I live faraway. I know all about red wine and Ramsters. It is my pet hate. Those that were in school during the Truth teachings have a habit of drinking to oblivion and all hell breaks loose. I've stopped hanging out with them.

See & E, yeah a truckload of RSE goodies that's covered under house insurance!

I'm going to check out Mafu. Just remembered I read somewhere that it's similar to Ramtha. Scary! Maybe we can all start channelling some entity and make a fortune. We have enough knowledge to do it well.

Greetings earthlings ... :lol:

Caterpillar

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:22 pm

Hello Tree,

Forgot to ask, how was the experiment in not doing disciplines and manifesting?

Caterpillar

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:39 pm

I just saw the Lee Harris post. Funny that, when I mentioned about channelling some entity.

Caterpillar
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:11 am

Current student's realisations

Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:55 am

Hello everyone

I haven't slept much in the last two days as I was horrified that RSE is a cult and Ramtha may not be real. Have spent time reading some of your posts and also 'googling' JZK.

My conclusion is this:

- RSE is a cult.

- I cannot prove if Ramtha is real or not. Regardless of this, JZ K is a GENIUS!

- The core teachings are beautiful and that probably attract students into RSE.

- The longer you stay as a student, you will discover that the teachings contradict themselves. Actions of JZK, teachers and staff often clash with the teachings. Same with students.

- Most students in the school are poor and many have died.

- RSE students manifestations (if any) are not unique to RSE. Other people around the world have also experienced same and don't do RSE disciplines.

- It is very easy to fall victim to RSE teachings and put Ramtha/JZK and teachers on a pedestal.

- Earth changes will always be mentioned. Ramtha will always predict the worst case scenario. These predictions do not come true.

As a current student for 9 years, I have been totally brainwashed and speak the Ramtha lingo. I have allowed my fear of the earth changes to make financial decisions that I regretted. I have restricted my lifestyle due to this 'fear'. I have given my power away to RSE despite the core message that 'I am God'.

Are there any current students lurking here that feel the same? I would love to hear from you.

I thought of asking Dr Greg but I figured I would get the standard RSE spill: 'You create your own reality. Now make a card on moving to the new neighbourhood. Focus. Do your walk, "I have always been ..." You will see results. Don't despair. It will happen. Ramtha will help you if you have no doubt'.

Caterpillar chewing on green leaves

Whatchamacallit
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Contact:

Re: Just wondering ... Current students lament

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:38 am

Caterpillar wrote: Watcha, I did have a 'subconscious' fear of Ramtha sending me a big Runner for even reading and posting here.
Cat,

Just for your information, there have been some posters on EMF who became "recognized" by the content of their posts, and they started to get harassed, some rather strongly, via emails (at least) by certain Ramsters. I do NOT intent to scare you with that information, but just use it wisely. You're in the driver's seat.

The only information about you that anyone in a non-administrative position can see, is "Caterpillar" .

You're a quick study; I can see that ! ;-) :D

Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:04 pm

wow Cat - great summary! That ought to 'billboarded' somehow by the webmasters - you've said it all succinctly.
As everyone has different experiences while 'in' ramthaland, so too is the experience 'out'. When I left there were some friends with whom contact became limited - but we were/are love connected friends - and eventually it hasn't mattered. Some friends left before me, some after -- again, true Friends are friends in the long haul. Tree has, ad nauseum, posted how awful the people of Yelm are, and horribly she's been treated -- That's her experience and perspective, which doesn't include how she's treated people. Leaving ramthaland can be equated, in some ways, as leaving a relationship/a divorce/quitting or being fired from a long time job -- there's loss, and there's gain.
Meanwhile, if you live in the Yelm area and want to have face to face chats re all this - let David/webmaster know...

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:35 pm

Cat -

I'm intrigued by all of your posts, and I'm blown away by how much I identify with you.

Somewhere on this forum I've read more than once that people who are current with RSE or have left still love the teachings, saying they are beautiful. What bugs me about that is that Ramtha/JZR claims to be the originator of the information being taught when in fact what is being taught has originated elsewhere.

It's bad enough that we were brainwashed at that place, why do people continue to worship her and allow her to reign supreme over their lives? I can't get any of my ramster friends to see the light. They don't even care if JZR/Ramtha is an imposter --they say say they love what they are learning and laughingly talk about getting their Ramtha "fix."

IMO, it would a mistake for you to talk to "Dr." Greg about any doubts you have. He will probably leave your head spinning. He, too, is a master of talk and sales. One of his buddies is/was Tony Robbins who has his own cult following.

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:19 pm

Hello everyone

I've only just accepted that RSE is a cult. A month ago, there was a TV documentary on a cult group. A non-RSE friend rang to check if I had seen the show as he thought the personalities in the show reminded him of RSE students. I couldn't even watch it. I read about it briefly and was totally offended that he would think that I would be so STUPID to be involved in a cult!!! I now realize that RSE IS a cult and I'm still processing the embarassment that I could be so stupid to join a cult!

I note there are two types of ex-Ramsters. One of them is similar to EMF group. They have been in the school for very long (more than 15 years) and may have lived in Yelm at some time. They may have even worked for JZ. They may be struggling financially as most money went to RSE. They do not support RSE at all and have evidence to prove that the teachings have originated from different sources. They believe there is no Ramtha and JZ is faking it. They strongly discourage people from joining. They may consult professionals that specialize in exiting cults. If they could, they will take legal action.

The other type is students that have been in school not very long (less than 10-15 years). They don't care if RSE is a cult. They don't care if Ramtha is real or not. They still love the Ram (fondly spoken) and JZ. They don't care if the teachings are not new. RSE is just another experience. They no longer need to be current. They no longer need Ramtha/JZ's approval so they left RSE. They may still do some of the disciplines. They haven't invested too much money and time in RSE. They may even encourage people to join just for the experience.

I think I'm in between the two types. Must be a third type? :lol:

Nevertheless, both these groups have been affected by RSE and may sometimes have RSE thoughts.

Watcha, it's very easy to identify students from the post. Mike W. would be reading this post.

Another Dimension, I'm relieved I don't live in Yelm. But would be nice to meet David.

California Dreamin', Dr Greg is the MASTER sales and marketing person and eradicator of doubt. I enjoyed Anthony Robbins stuff. I already know what Dr G will say. I've also heard it at AMWAY and USANA! Sigh! The same RA RA after you leave the event - YOU CAN DO ANYTHING!!!

I'm much wiser from the RSE experience. Maybe a little poorer ...

Caterpillar going to bed

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:34 pm

OOps, I'm meant to say definitely a LOT poorer. :sad:

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:26 pm

Cat said:
I think I'm in between the two types. Must be a third type?


I feel the need to clarify my position since I had previously stated that I can identify with you. I am definitely not the "third type." Count me amongst the first type you mentioned:
I note there are two types of ex-Ramsters. One of them is similar to EMF group. They have been in the school for very long (more than 15 years) and may have lived in Yelm at some time. They may have even worked for JZ. They may be struggling financially as most money went to RSE. They do not support RSE at all and have evidence to prove that the teachings have originated from different sources. They believe there is no Ramtha and JZ is faking it. They strongly discourage people from joining. They may consult professionals that specialize in exiting cults. If they could, they will take legal action.
CD

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:35 pm

Tree has, ad nauseum, posted how awful the people of Yelm are, and horribly she's been treated -- That's her experience and perspective, which doesn't include how she's treated people. Leaving ramthaland can be equated, in some ways, as leaving a relationship/a divorce/
yes, I posted about what it is like to live among cult members and be continually harassed because I publicly spoke out.
A year and a half was about all I could handle of that nonsense.
To address how I treated people:
I never wanted to see any ramsters while I was still there 1 1/2 years after my exit. Just seeing them caused a severe
panic attack. I avoided them at all costs.
Probably the most I have interacted with people has been on this forum.
And I think you can see for yourself how I treat people.

"out here", in the real world, how I treat anyone is a non-issue.
No one has sent any cease or desist orders
or banged on my door in the middle of the night.
99% have no clue I have been in a cult.
The other 1% that know are very allowing when a panic attack occurs due to a music trigger.
They are very allowing with work when this happens.

Many exit counselors agree that leaving a cult is liken unto a divorce.
Me? I personally don't like to cut off communication,
but if communication is affecting one of the parties in a detrimental way,
I think not seeing the other person would be recommended.
I think everyone is a bit different and unique in processing relationships.
Some want to just dump them entirely,
some want to salvage something.

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Robair
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Location: Nevada

Hello eveyone

Unread post by Robair » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:51 pm

Hello Caterpillar

thank you for all you posts they are very thoughtfuly expessed.

Since you mention Dr Greg, I have been asking everyone here an there what kind of Dr he is no one seam to known, the first time I met him in Yucca 1983,he was some kind of marketing sale pusher,I stop to be current in 1997 an left Yelm to go in the real world to make more money as you known ( Blowing did not work all that well for me :lol: ) and the Dr in front of his name happended sometime after.

The same for Sir Robert,witch Queen made him a Sir.

Would you known something about it ?

I would apreciate it even if it is just an opinion

Thank you

Oldone

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:03 pm

oldone-
Greg is a self dubbed Dr.
He was a marketing guru for Tony Robbins years ago.

Robert Jones was given that bs title by jz acting as ramtha acting as if he had knowledge
of the akashic records.
I have never called him sir. He is anything but a gentleman.

Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:08 pm

"I never wanted to see any ramsters while I was still there 1 1/2 years after my exit. Just seeing them caused a severe panic attack. I avoided them at all
costs." confusing, Tree. By your own report, you rented to Ramsters, worked for Ramsters, sold your stuff to Ramsters, read and post ramster website stuff...... And as posted here previously, as well as by local report, accused, judged, condemned and cursed people who were your friends, employers, health practitioners..... Was it because you spoke out re jz that you were supposedly ill treated or because, as on emf, you consistently accuse, judge, condemn and bash Ramsters, as well as others, including people who love you.?

But not to sidetrack the post. There are a diversity of people everywhere - my experience in Yelm has obviously been different from Trees. As I've posted before, Yelm, in my experience, is full of sincerely nice, hardworking, help your neighbor folks. .... And there are different responses to leaving; and more than 2 or 3 'categories' of former and/or not current ramsters. Many many simply walk away, consider it an experience, and move on. Some, as David and Watcha, opened their hearts to help others leave and heal. There is, as noted, a 'schizophrenic' phase both in current and n0n-current students of separating Jz from Ramtha. My observation is that the healing process has much to do with the personality and spirituality of the individual prior to their getting caught in jz's web; and how fanatic while there; and their motivation in attending. Even the motivation for leaving is different, and thus the healing/moving on from the experience differs. Some, as Tree, it seems, get something out of having diagnostic labels/ excuses for their behavior; some simply move onto another 'group'; some use it as a stepping stone for growth.... It gets us on shaky ground when we try and make 'all' statements - 'all Ramsters' are not one way or another; all "New Agers" are not one way or another.... ...

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:17 pm

AD-

Well, me thinks you have been having private conversations with the David and Whatcha and
apparently the camp lines are drawn.

In the past, I have endeavored to allow and think ramsters might still be people I could deal
with on a professional basis.
I was mistaken.
You were not in the office with Kathy May.
nor on the job site with Russel M.
I was merely pointing out some very difficult experiences with people who are still under the guise of mind control.
It definitely is NOT like talking to everyday people was my only point.
Sorry if you took it any other way.

I don't really think you know how many people "love" me.
So I think that is not a fair assessment on your part.

"But not to side track the post"..... um....I think you did a splendid job.


You are quite entitled to your opinion.
So be it. :twisted:

ex
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Unread post by ex » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:08 am

well ad and tree.i had the same thing as tree going on.a wile i seperated not betwen good and bad ramsters due to my reaction toward them.any ramstertalk was hardly bearable to me.there were only a few with whom i keept contact making my opinion about rse very clear.after years know even this few choose not to pay me for my work so iam done with them too.there some excuses i still give :like beeing exited after a beginner r not beeing abel to leave bcause your whole socal structre breaks up.but i certany have no tolerance for cheat and feeling superior what many ramster do.to safeguard my own sanaty i dismiss them as lunies. i still avoid them because i dont believe in this growing through adversety bs from the ranch anymore.the only winner of this littel fights here is jzr.i dont agree about the exitcounceling is nessesary stand either but i see the advantage getting help..but knowing how jzr works,dissplaying her sources and disscrepencies is a major help.having her school shown as it is should be our major task.because you r getting the carpet pulled away under your feets when you leave.and there is definitly groupconcesness to avoid.

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:24 am

AD, that was well said. There are more than 2 types of ex-Ramsters due to different personalities and perceptions of the experience. It's my analytical habit and wanting to categorize people. I just happen to observe people similar to EMF and 'friends' in the second group. I met the second group who encouraged me to join RSE. They weren't going to RSE anymore but thought I would benefit from the teachings. To this day, I don't know anyone personally like the EMF group and I'm so glad you exist as I needed to have this discussion. The other people I know are current and they don't want to hear about it. They are not even going to check out EMF. I think it's really important that this group is warning people about RSE so they can make an informed decision. I wish someone had warned me before I joined RSE.

Oldone, I forgot to put ' ' with Dr G. I was making fun as I've never called him 'Dr' G. I was surprised when he created the website and was on BTO and called himself 'Dr'. I did a check on him and he's a B***S*** Dr. He WAS my fave teacher as he seemed the most impeccable and SO passionate. I've quit putting any Ramsters on a pedestal now. It was another habit.

I asked the same question about 'Sir'. Which Queen knighted him? Also the laugh ...

Tree, it must be difficult in your position as you were staff and know the key people plus live in Yelm and deal with Ramsters. I'm so glad I didn't move to Yelm. I would have gone crazy.

Eventhough I didn't realize I was in a cult, I have actually distanced myself from fanatical Ramsters when attending events in the last two years. I purposely avoided being near them or joining their conversations. All they would talk about is how often they did their disciplines (I'm still waiting for their extraordinary manifestations) and the kind of UG they would have when the 4000 foot wave hits. (last year's prediction as seen ...). Some were selling MLM and were forcing people to join as it could be the wealth manifestation :lol:

Who started LARSE/EMF? Was it David and Watcha and Joe Sz? Is David the administrator and moderator?

I was reading another post about David challenging JZ to a Q & A. So she should show up if she was impeccable. There are too many discrepancies. I'm amazed she got away with her claims in court and the letter Watcha mentioned.

There will probably be a teaching by R that current students are posting on this website! :roll: I did ask if there are any current students 'questioning' RSE and no one has replied. I wonder why ...

A big thank you for engaging my post. I really appreciate it. :D

Caterpillar pondering

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:46 am

Caterpillar wrote:AD, that was well said. There are more than 2 types of ex-Ramsters due to different personalities and perceptions of the experience.
Cat, I have posted a number of times before, but it bears repeating; it was thanks first to the kindness, compassion, and TIME that was gifted to me by a number of people who live in Yelm, who gave me support by talking to me, sharing what they knew, networking me with others who could related, going to restaurants with me to have a long, relaxed, open dialogue about things, that I first started my trek away from RSE. These people ranged from regular citizens with connections, to people in positions of authority. They helped me for over a year, until one day we said our good-byes, because I told them that I was attending my last event. I will always be grateful to them, and I will always honor their request for anonymity. It absolutely has its place; especially given the historical tactics that JZ will/has resorted to if she feels the need to retaliate. Many of those people were never in RSE, but some were. The stories that they shared kept me up late as I would sit and write them out. That helped me to collect my thoughts as I worked on digesting the information one bitter bite at a time. To this day, I have never shared them with anyone except my husband, and some of them, with David. I wish I could post them on a billboard, but my integrity level is high, so I won't go there. People have all sorts of reasons for choosing silence, or, controlled silence. Not something I care to judge. There are plenty of people like me, that have been helped in the way that I have been.


Caterpillar wrote:Who started LARSE/EMF? Was it David and Watcha and Joe Sz? Is David the administrator and moderator?
LARSE/EMF was started by people who do not all choose to be known. Were David and I a part of that ? Yes, we started the ball rolling. David welcomed Joe to the first LARSE gathering, and as history is recorded/videotaped, Joe spoke to those in attendance about cults, along with some others who are on the video. The second LARSE gathering had a panel of folks who also spoke about additional, related RSE experiences. There has been, and still are, silent and active supporters. The folks 'behind the scenes' are volunteers, who have families, and are ex-RSE customers. Joe was never in RSE, but has worked with folks who have been.


Caterpillar wrote: I was reading another post about David challenging JZ to a Q & A. So she should show up if she was impeccable. There are too many discrepancies. I'm amazed she got away with her claims in court and the letter Watcha mentioned.
At the first LARSE gathering, David has told this story, he talked to Greg S about an invitation to JZ to speak, on tape, with him. David also was open to speaking to "Ramtha", unedited, on tape, without a script. Greg told David that if he had an RSE complaint, he "should have" taken it TO RSE, instead of going and having the LARSE event. SHOULD HAVE ??? We all know what happens to those in RSE who complain, challenge, or question. They get ridiculed, expelled, or experience attempts at character assassination. Greg assured David that he would pass the message along to JZ AND get back to him about it. David NEVER received a response to this day.

It could make one wonder why JZR didn't welcome the sincere, generous, free offer !

;-)

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:25 am

"your whole socal structre breaks up" - that's the kind of experience I meant went I compared leaving rse to a divorce -- one's social structure is in fact disrupted - and it depends on the kinds of relationships made during the 'relationship' as to what they'll be like after.... And certainly I've had good bad and ugly experiences with Ramsters -- as I've said, we're a diversity of folks. Personally, I've learned there's no convincing the convinced - no matter what the particular thing a person is convinced about! - religion politics sex economics whatever - so I've had a if you don't ask, then I won't tell policy. That's what's nice (also) about emf - when a person is open and able to see another perspective, it's available. It's unfortunate that the general consensus in yelm is to not hire/trust a Ramster -- and I know some honest hardworking people who are sincere "students". ... It's the blanket statements about all Ramsters, and all of Yelm that are very distressing - and, to me, are the same kind of thinking we were taught at RSE. And of course I wouldn't choose to hang out with fanatical Ramsters - what would be the value. Perhaps I was fortunate even during my years of attendance that I didn't live only in ramthaland - I think that makes a big difference. And even at the ranch I was an alone kind of person. ... And, I personally love the northwest, and small towns in rural areas.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:31 am

a trivial sidenote re "Students sit in stinky sweats" and plastic surgery -- sweatpants, rolling in the mud, puffed lips at least and probably the other plastic surgeries are simply explained: Linda Evans. Linda couldn't be prettier than JZ if she was wearing sweatpants; humiliating famous Linda was much fun - therefore mud rolling; Linda had her lips puffed.... .... Info told to me by a close inner circle staff.... Fact or fiction, jz is the jealous type, and quite vindictive.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:48 am

"well, me thinks you have been having private conversations with the David and Whatcha and
apparently the camp lines are drawn." - as you so often say,Tree: bwahahah! javascript:emoticon(':lol:') ... I was simply asking based on what you yourself have posted here - no need to talk with watcha or david - let alone that you assume I know them! I don't know, nor said anything about Kathy May. There was a Ramster chiropractor, I think, that you said was not nice to you, and you said it was because you were an outspoken exRamster - and her reply was that you had cursed her out and had been quite ugly to her. You've spoken of Ramster renters, you've spoken of any number of Ramsters for whom you've worked, even after leaving rse, you've spoken of selling your stuff to ramsters, you've posted many times from the master's center and steve klein, etc... ... That's all - I was simply, as I said, confused by the apparent contradiction. Personally, I've worked professionally with some current Ramsters, and there are some current Ramsters I wouldn't work with; just as there are some Christians I'd hire in a heartbeat, and some Christians I wouldn't trust to clean up dogshit; just as there are some ... you get the drift.
Of course there would be "difficult experiences with people who are still under the guise of mind control" - my point exactly - - why, if you so don't trust ramsters, find them so judgmental (as you are of them), etc, would you rent to, hire, work for, study them so much? ... confusing, that's all.
And, of course I don't know how many people love you... I only know a few.

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:13 pm

Thank you all for your posts. Much to contemplate on. So many different personalities and perceptions ...

It would be great if Ramtha/JZ engages EMF personally. I would have thought it was in their best interests to address EMF. I will check out the LARSE meetings.

AD, Linda E and JZ look similar in some shots. Twins?

I've had a look at the latest RSE schedule. It must still be safe to travel as they have events all over the world. The airports haven't been submerged under water yet. I used to wonder why JZK doesn't bilocate as we focused A LOT on bilocation.

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:58 pm

a trivial sidenote re "Students sit in stinky sweats" and plastic surgery -- sweatpants, rolling in the mud, puffed lips at least and probably the other plastic surgeries are simply explained: Linda Evans. Linda couldn't be prettier than JZ if she was wearing sweatpants; humiliating famous Linda was much fun - therefore mud rolling; Linda had her lips puffed.... .... Info told to me by a close inner circle staff.... Fact or fiction, jz is the jealous type, and quite vindictive.
JZ should take an objective look at herself in the mirror. She has become a sad "caricature" of her youthful self. In addition to Linda E., JZ strongly resembles Victoria Gotti (just google Victoria to see the similarity.) :lol:

JZ's face in and of itself should be a RED FLAG. It's in direct contradiction to what is being taught about manifesting. She got what she paid for all right, but at what cost? There is nothing spiritual about ripping people off and then buying a new face with the money. I guess she by-passed doing her list and headed straight to the plastic surgeon so that she could be an example to the poor students of what they too could create. :twisted:

Hey JZ, fess up to your lies.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:37 am

BTW, there are/were JZ clones in school. There was at least one person that had her nose 'fixed' to look like JZ/R. I think R also mentioned it favorably duing a teaching. I can't remember her name. Maybe they use the same plastic surgeon.

Students have complained about the rudeness of most staff in Yelm. Could it be that this rudeness comes from the top ie. JZ and staff mimic the behavior? It's part of the culture of the organization.

Caterpillar

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Robair
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Hello evryone

Unread post by Robair » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:40 am

Hello cat

I think all staff past and present, have an attitube of superiority and all of them do have the tendency to be arrogant.
My two cents
Oldone

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:09 am

Hello Oldone

Yes, so is JZ/R. R is the most arrogant 'channelled' entity I've come across. Any worse out there?

Tree, no offence to you :-) Maybe you can explain. It comes from the top of the pyramid, right? :-)

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:46 am

Caterpillar wrote:Students have complained about the rudeness of most staff in Yelm. Could it be that this rudeness comes from the top
Cat,

It is true that a long standing criticism of RSE is the rude staff. Not all of them were/are rude, but I would say more than half, are. That is, the ones who interact with the student/customers.

You asked if it comes from the top. Yes, it does. As JZR has said that when the staff are rude to students, it's because s/he has told them to be, and not take any crap. You know, run the place like a boot camp. If you think about it, the hierarchy of RSE is like a military branch. I remember R talking about that and saying it's all set up the way it is quite on purpose. I also remember R saying that RSE was "his" EXPERIMENT. I am certain I heard that. It went along with a "teaching" about how his space aliens buddies were all watching "Ramtha's" experiment. It was interesting to them/him, to watch/monitor human reactions to...insert whatever they were doing at an event.

I don't recall that line of conversation happening often, but it did occur more than once.

I am paraphrasing, but "he" said staff did "his" bidding, as "he" told them to, in handling the student/customers.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:53 am

Cat,

I also want to add, that I am not intending to say that the staff are "excused" for their rudeness and/or arrogance (as Oldone stated), because "Ramtha" encouraged and fostered their attitude. We are, hopefully, all adults and if we assume a role of staff at RSE, one might expect it would be because of exemplary maturity and compassion. I can think of three people I knew of on staff, that were that way...at least...in the limited capacity that I knew them. I wasn't at RSE to be a social butterfly, so I didn't get very close to many people. Nevertheless, as adults, we are responsible, irregardless of the persuasion of the cult leader, to conduct ourselves with integrity, maturity, kindness, thoughtfullness, etc. Oh, yeah. Honesty comes to mind, too.

But that is not what JZR is about, so how could it be that staff would be any other way than what most of them are ? Just like JZR !

Sad. But, for those who stay and tolerate it, they will get what they allow.

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:27 am

Tree, no offence to you Smile Maybe you can explain. It comes from the top of the pyramid, right? Smile
Cat-
I found it very very difficult to be around staff there.
That was the biggest stressor working there.
I was fortunate enough to make my "office" space quite a distance from the barn hallway.
I found the gardeners (only 3 of them) and the maintenance manager to be pleasant in any way.
The rest of the entire staff looked down upon gardeners and the maintenance staff.
jz personally adored the garden people.
and the maint. mgr. works her butt of and carries ALOT of weight just maintaining the place,
and jz knows this. she appreciates the work of the maintenance mgr.
I don't know where the rest of the barn hallway staff gets off with the "holier than thou" attitudes.
Primarily the marketing and reg people are the absolute worst. Green leads as well.
The non paid red guards rank right up there with them, if you ask me.
Everyone except Heath.

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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:15 pm

Hello

jz personally adored the garden people.

Sorry Tree but knowing what we know about JZ do you really think that she has the capability to Adored anyone but her self.

Oldone

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:29 pm

Sorry Tree but knowing what we know about JZ do you really think that she has the capability to Adored anyone but her self.
knowing what I know about sociopaths, no.

this was just my personal experience.
I would say about 90% of my work directives came directly from her.
she was always very endearing to me personally.

Geez, I think I must be getting to the end of my tenure here as everyone is questioning my personal experience
and opinions.

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Unread post by G2G » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:54 am

Tree wrote:
Sorry Tree but knowing what we know about JZ do you really think that she has the capability to Adored anyone but her self.
knowing what I know about sociopaths, no.

this was just my personal experience.
I would say about 90% of my work directives came directly from her.
she was always very endearing to me personally.

Geez, I think I must be getting to the end of my tenure here as everyone is questioning my personal experience
and opinions.
I'm not. Your experience is yours, and that you know for certain. Anyone can question, but you were there. Maybe there is more than one "personality" dancing around inside JZ's mind. Some monstrous personalities still loved others. I'm not excusing JZ for her acts, she will deal with those in her own time. Yet I believe as much as she is horrible via RSE, it's difficult for me to say she has no redeeming qualities. jmo.....
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Robair
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Hello

Unread post by Robair » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:05 am

Hello Tree
That was not questioning your personal experience with JZ at all, well all known that She can be very charming when she want to an does have the Habillity to make you belive that she care for you. During that time you might have thought that she LOVE, LIKE,or ADORE you or the garden people, for me it fall in to the category of the NEED TO BE DIFFERENT ( Quote from Ramtha) we all have that need in our self and JZ known that very well an have been using it for eons to devided conquer an made someone belive that she care about them .
Now that we have discorved that she is a sociophat,an a narcissist, for what I known about those TWO.
she did or does not have not have that ability to do so Adore, love.

Did she like your work and everyone else's in the garden ?I am abolutely sure she did,she is very sofisticared lady have an great taste and known when something look greart and is done well , if you would not have been up or above par,we all know what would have happened to you.
One question
Were you still on staff when you left the school? I do not remember :oops: :oops: if you mentioned it or not.


Oldone

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Unread post by ordinarymind » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:19 am

Tree wrote:

Geez, I think I must be getting to the end of my tenure here as everyone is questioning my personal experience
and opinions.
Likge G2G said, I?m not either . . .and I appreciate your posts and hope you will continue. This is complicated stuff we are all trying to process and I know I am learning a lot from hearing about everyone?s experiences. ?I think this one dimensional communication (i.e I mean typing into a computer and not being face to face) can sometimes lead to misinterpretations and so I think we need to give each space and not jump on each other for a few words or phrases that might hit one of our trigger points.
Just my opinion,
Ordinarymind.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:06 am

Were you still on staff when you left the school?

yes. I left in the middle of the night, so to speak.
She laid the staff off for 2 months during which I found
a better paying job and someone told me about this site.
I told the yellow guard I needed a few things,
and I took all my ranch gear (think of the stuff you pack your
car with for an event) with no one noticing.
I remember my heart pounding as if in an Edgar Allen Poe novel.

See&E
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Stop Lights Red Yellow Green Blue Leads

Unread post by See&E » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:39 am

Tree,

Something I never really understood. Once upon a time, in the teachings of 35K yrs ago, and the great march
there was the 'red guard' or what have you. Terms that were mentioned in school like:
Red Guard
Staff
(I'll skip all the various groups, as I've posted on the old board about those)
now
"Lead"
Green
Yellow lead...
Master Builders
The Unseen, etc

Can you help shed some light on your understanding of where these evolved from? It seems to have become more and more factions/guards/ terms...

It also might be helpful to others trying to make sense of these terms.

Thanks for your thoughts, sharing

See&E

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Unread post by ex » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:30 am

since all asking you a hole in your belly i have a question too .if you dont mind it might be a hot theme or not.whats your experience with mobbing at rse.how is the military hirachie used there from people who work there.i was once in toiletstaff and my expierience with the big guys were more than negative.they missinformed guided me on a stupied need to know,dident kept apointments.first i thought it was my fault but later i meet people who had the same expierience.if you work too hard you threaten their job and they mob you.

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Unread post by Tree » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:57 am

ex-
they missinformed guided me on a stupied need to know

I am hoping I got the gist of your question. If not, ask it another way.
Your line here stuck out in my mind like a thorn on bush.
It has been my experience that the entire staff runs on a "need to know" basis, which gives rise to
the arrogant attitudes of some in various positions at the ranch.
For instance, the people in the marketing dept plus maybe Hobbit, are pretty much the top of the line
of information. They will guard it, even from the lower echelons of staff, under the guise of
"they really don't need to know this information" for their job functions.
This, I feel, crosses a barrier of the personal.
They feel, they have the latest executed order from the big house, and they will keep it under wraps
until time x.
It gives them a false sense of who is in charge.
It also supports a military hierarchal chain of command.

At the ranch, everyone who works there is pretty much relegated to their office of duty.
There is a small handful of people who have access to the entire property.
And it is not the people who you would think.
The gardeners and the maintenance dept are allowed both up at the house
and down at the barn hallway. Period. No one else has the cross access.
Remember, "the house has eyes."
So these people actually know what is going on,
rather than the perceived notion of what is going on, let's say, in the marketing dept.
Because those in the marketing dept like to think they are on top of everything.

After a while of watching this, and not having a specific office in the barn hallway,
it occurred to me that I pretty much knew what was really happening,
so I learned to ignore the pompous attitudes of let's say Greg, Michelle, Steve, Mike, Pat,
Jean, Natalie. Because what I heard up at the house eventually trickled down to the barn hallway.
And then that information trickled out to certain staff, then to the public via grapevine.

What I found interesting since I am very honest and naive by nature, and also
I want every one to be on the same page with the same information, (why not? we were all
on the same team, so to speak)
when I knew jz was going to come down to the barn hallway unannounced,
I would poke my head in a few doors and give various staff a heads up
as an impromptu visit by the queen just caused havoc for those in the barn hallway.
They can't scramble fast enough to the table to kiss her backside.
It is dreadful and amusing to watch all at the same time when this occurs.
So, my thought was, share the information so all are prepared.
Same goes for when she was going away for the weekend.
NO ONE in the barn hallway knew where or for how long she was going,
unless of course, it was a rambles trip abraod. Then the itinerary is posted in the yellow guards' office.

In hindsight, they pretty much appreciated this. Who wouldn't want the inside scoop?
The thing is, they used it differently than the intent in which I was doing it.

After a while, it got to be too much of an effort on my part
for people who had an ulterior agenda
of that hierarchal way of being that they self generated.
So I stopped.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:17 am

See & E-

Red Guard
Staff
(I'll skip all the various groups, as I've posted on the old board about those)
now
"Lead"
Green
Yellow lead...
Master Builders
The Unseen


I am not sure how these terms came about.
They were established before I started working there.
I do know some came from Mason verbage,
and I later read about some references in Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China, psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton.

In his 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China, psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, M.D., describes eight coercive methods which, he says, are able to change the minds of individuals without their knowledge and were used with this purpose on prisoners of war in Korea and China. These include:[1]

* Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
* Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
* Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
* Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
* Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
* Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clich?s, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
* Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
* Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.


I believe it falls under Loading the Language.
It is of my opinion, that by the time jz established these terms,
she knew what she was doing.

I find it interesting that the terms
Yellow Guard (*gun toting hired security)
Red Guard ( I call them Mall guards. They volunteer to be the "lesser" of the 2 security teams.
Although, they are to be respected per Blue Body and jz. pfft. )
Green lead (the rotating coordinator for the event, which used to be the same person throughout the entire event. Usually someone from the marketing dept, but now "appointed teachers" are assigned at times)
were long established before the
Blue crew (volunteer bathroom staff) was.
In the earlier days, the bathroom crew was pretty much the low group on the totem pole.
You know, you can't manifest your way to an event, so you "volunteer" to work the bathrooms
for a reduced rate at an event.
Parking crew pretty much fell below that. They were unrecognized. Parking crew still has no color
and is under the direction the the head of the Maintenance department head (Blue Crew leads).

ex
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Unread post by ex » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:07 pm

thanks.to what extend do people go to protect theire jobs there?

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:10 am

.to what extend do people go to protect theire jobs there?

very good question ex.
as you know, living in Yelm, if you haven't heard horror stories about working there,
you are dying to be employed by the best god/goddess ever! :-x

I am serious here.
People would give their right arm, or run over others, just to get a job there
because of the perceived status of working "at the ranch".

Other old timers, who have somewhat better paying jobs on the outside just ignore
this little caveat. For some reason, they have retained a bit of what is left of critical thinking
and are thanking their god and their manifesting abilities for providing a better paying
job that can revolve around events (very very difficult, btw. one has to sacrifice
somewhere!! what company allows for that kind of time off??!!)

So, pretty much when you are in, you just keep your nose to the grindstone
and pray you are not in the marketing dept where Mike so Wright will throw
you under a bus
(like he did to Joe D.) I have never encountered anyone else who
would do such a thing there. They pretty much keep to themselves
unless they are bent on "rising to the top".

I hope this helps.
at this juncture, I think an open forum with ex staff members (and David could tape the
whole thing) would be most enlightening. Liken unto when you get out of wine ceremony,
and the next morning you just happen to meet up with about 7 of your best current student
"friends", and you discuss the happenings of the night before because someone sparked something
that you recalled and could add to the already lively conversation. :-)

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:06 pm

Tree, thank you for the insider info. It must be extremely difficult to work in that sort of environment. I know what you mean about students DYING to work for JZ. I was inspired to work for such a genius mind until I realized what I was going to be in for! Minimum wage and extremely hard work.
She sounds like a tyrant. I notice that the teachers are appointed by Ramtha due to their passion and manifestations. They are 'under pressure' to perform.

Steve Klein's latest newsletter mentioned Dr Joe D on Neurogenesis from VoiceAmerica Network. Is he back in farvor? RSE's Quantum Cafe does not appear to sell his book, CD or DVD.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Hello

I have 2 questions:

- Anybody tried Rezilience (Resveratrol) by James F.? How come red wine is still being consumed if you can swallow capsules? I note it's not a new invention.

- Greg S. in Physics of Change newsletter mentioned Conquer yourself 1 oz pure silver coin from Ramtha's pure wisdom collection.

http://www.goldwisdompro.com/

There is not much info eg who it's minted from. It's the second time Greg has mentioned this. I haven't seen it advertised anywhere else. Maybe Greg created the coins.

Wow, what would be next - A portable UG?

Caterpillar

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:51 pm

Greg S. in Physics of Change newsletter mentioned Conquer yourself 1 oz pure silver coin from Ramtha's pure wisdom collection.
several years ago, a lady name Cheryl M minted several coins under the business "Sovereignty Coins."
She had the groups names minted on them with several ramtha symbols.

They are worth no more or no less than any other minting,
other than the fact greg and rse have been saying the Canadian Maple Leaf will hold a better value.
Anybody tried Rezilience (Resveratrol) by James F.? How come red wine is still being consumed if you can swallow capsules?
I see it as the latest fad, no different from coral calcium.
You can now buy red wine extract from K mart. :roll:

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:58 am

Tree, thanks for reminding. I have forgotten about Coral Calcium and Star Stuff. Michel L. was supposed to be fabulously wealthy from Star Stuff.
Still have some bottles of Coral Calcium and litmus paper! :roll:

Isagenix is the latest $$$ opportunity. Mitja K is promoting it.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by G2G » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:58 pm

Caterpillar wrote:Tree, thanks for reminding. I have forgotten about Coral Calcium and Star Stuff. Michel L. was supposed to be fabulously wealthy from Star Stuff.
Still have some bottles of Coral Calcium and litmus paper! :roll:

Isagenix is the latest $$$ opportunity. Mitja K is promoting it.

Caterpillar
You mean from the happy honeys who met at RSE? The guy was a hoot from Australia, involved in professional acting, and the girl from Hawaii. They met and fell in love at RSE. They were two normal people before. Then moved to Tenino - from Hawaii. So methinks this is their site: http://thehoneys.isagenix.com/us/en/home.dhtml I remember them from the get-go and met them at their very start. Was hoping they weren't still into RSE. What a waste of two intelligent minds. It is so sad.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:09 pm

Way before JZ and RSE began promoting the benefits of resveratrol, here is a list of a few "scholarly" articles, real medical research. JZ just did some reading.....again, and incorporated it into her teachings. A good excuse to bring back "red wine" ceremonies. Not.

Scholarly articles for resveratrol study 2003

Here's a Google search for medical articles from 2003 and upward. So when did Judy begin her teachings on this? Ahem.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=res ... i=scholart

Examples below:

Melatonin, xanthurenic acid, resveratrol, EGCG, vitamin ... - Lopez-Burillo - Cited by 34

Genome-scale analysis of resveratrol-induced gene ... - SangHwa - Cited by 47

Inhibition by red wine extract, resveratrol, of cytokine ... - Culpitt - Cited by 67


---
To quote 'someone' - nothing new under the sun, Horatio! ;-) ;-) ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:17 pm

G2G wrote:JZ just did some reading.....again, and incorporated it into her teachings.
Yes, of course you're spot on that the medical literature was publishing/studying this topic.

Gosh, if we could only count how many times she's read books and then they become teachings, afterward !

I had a private conversation with an ex-employee who referenced meetings where JZ planned "what's next" in the teachings. Always in control, probably based on which way the wind blows $$$$$$$ would be my guess, LOL.

:roll:

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:54 am

G2G, Yep, that's the happyhoneys! Check this out. Mitja K. confirms it. Are the downline all RSE students?

http://www.happyhoneys.com/meet.html

and http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/364/b01

and http://www.vimeo.com/2225574 Watch the video, WHERE DO I SIGN UP??? A community in Yelm ... :lol:

Hey, is that manifestation of fabulous wealth? I heard that those proteins shakes come in handy at Blue College.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:12 pm

Yep, that's the happyhoneys! Check this out. Mitja K. confirms it. Are the downline all RSE students?

and http://www.vimeo.com/2225574 Watch the video, WHERE DO I SIGN UP??? A community in Yelm ...
Hey, is that manifestation of fabulous wealth? I heard that those proteins shakes come in handy at Blue College.
Hmmmmm. There is something familiar to me in the beginning of this clip. Looks like Mitja just might have been influenced by Derren Brown's NLP experiment at the shopping mall, i.e. "raise your hand if you want what I have."

If you don't know what I'm referring to, check out 'Derren Brown at the Shopping Mall' video on YouTube.

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Unread post by ex » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:52 pm

http://www.mindmaster.tv/have a look at this.not too deep.pretty disscusting getting a selfhypnosed drone.and mytja and the girl well learned from your employe.hi enough up in the hirachy to use jzr brainwash without getting sued?the respect i had for you just melted away.

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Unread post by G2G » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:21 pm

California Dreamin' wrote:
Yep, that's the happyhoneys! Check this out. Mitja K. confirms it. Are the downline all RSE students?

and http://www.vimeo.com/2225574 Watch the video, WHERE DO I SIGN UP??? A community in Yelm ...
Hey, is that manifestation of fabulous wealth? I heard that those proteins shakes come in handy at Blue College.
Hmmmmm. There is something familiar to me in the beginning of this clip. Looks like Mitja just might have been influenced by Derren Brown's NLP experiment at the shopping mall, i.e. "raise your hand if you want what I have."

If you don't know what I'm referring to, check out 'Derren Brown at the Shopping Mall' video on YouTube.
Difficult to watch. ;-) Just has that "Judith" stare. Practice, practice, practice, huh, Mitja? ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:11 am

The Happyhoneys have done well in recruiting RSE students into Isagenix especially getting a 'world teacher' Mitja involved. The million dollar question $$$ - is JZK involved? Great marketing for Blue college and Days to come. :roll:

I was so inspired by Mitja's story on how he became a 'world teacher' in his short time at RSE and manifested a pay rise by doing the 'walk'. That vimeo completely shattered my world perception. :cry: Anybody remember JZ/R speaking of his bloodline? I was sucked in again! Aw - he's special.

Happy Caterpillar

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Just wondering ...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:31 am

I have been hanging out with a few 'current' students and have mentioned my dissatisfaction with RSE and communicating with EMF. My partner and I were horrified at the response as we have used the same ones in the past ourselves. :shock: Excuses, excuses, JZ is only human... Don't put her on a pedestal. Ramtha said he will deceive and lie to us to evolve us ... It's our humanity that is questioning RSE ... The other mystery schools in the past were the same, students were killed ... Just read the Nine Faces of Christ, is that why it's a required reading? Think Skakus = Ramtha Aaahhhhhh...

Oh NO!!! My question is: Was anyone in the audience when R said he would do anything to evolve us ie lie, deceive? That's why we have the failed investments? We haven't heard that one although I do remember him saying said that masters often push people off the cliff if they are 'stuck' in that incarnation.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:45 am

My partner & I realized that our non-RSE friends and family are SO allowing when we used to speak Ramtha talk especially after coming back from events. They still put up with us and never told us to shut up. The glazed eyes and fear of days to come. Our lockdown after Sep 11 and informing everyone of the teachings. Our stock up of food and water which have now EXPIRED and medical supplies which have also EXPIRED. I showed off my beautiful cape just to impress them ... I know of students that walk around town in those capes!

Ah, confession time. :lol:

Caterpillar musing

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Interesting info ...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:13 am

I found this while surfing the net.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK5MH42CQSEOO

The following is a post from the above site. The plot thickens. JZ, is this true? Can we verify this?

'Dolores Williams says:
In the '80s I lived in San Diego and one day while sitting in the waiting room of a doctor's office I met a woman who was the pastor of a local Spiritualist's church. The subject of JZ Knight came up, and the pastor smiled knowingly and shook her head. She said she was a good friend of JZ's mother who had talked a lot about JZ's passionate intention to grow up and become beautiful, rich and famous no matter what it took.

According to the pastor, JZ had no natural talents to help her realize her lofty wish of fame and fortune. But her mother's interest in metaphysics could be a convenient way to provide a head start. She had already learned early in life that beauty had power to influence both men and women, so that was a given. Now all she needed was to become an "expert" in cosmic knowledge.

In her early twenties, she began educating herself by spending several years intensely studying all things metaphysical. She spent hours a day at the Spiritualist's church, New Age bookstores, libraries, local Religious Science churches, etc. Throughout her journey she shared her ambitions with the pastor, who watched her friend's daughter's ambitious Ramtha performances eventually work to take her straight into the fame and fortune that still today dominates her life.

Listening to a few Ramtha tapes, I had heard JZ flub give herself away several times.
Once while bashing President Reagan, "Ramtha" (obviously a loyal Liberal) slipped
by saying ". . . although I did not vote for him" followed by a quick correction stumbling over
"er, that is to say, er, if I did vote." Dead give-away.

Sidenote: In the '90s JZ and two other contemporaries, Linda Evans and Terry Cole Whittaker, formed a trio-friendship as they shared common bonds: All were well known attractive blondes, about the same age living in Washington state. All were interested in metaphysics. All had multiple (failed) marriages with much younger men. Wealth came to each of them primarily by looks, secondarily on their talents. Did they have a lot to girl-talk about or what?

Ramtha is a fictional character created by JZ Knight but if that character helps people come from hard times into better times, that's a good thing, so let's not shoot the messenger. After all, look how well it works for JZ!'



Anybody remembers Terry Cole Whittaker? I haven't heard of that name.

What's in it for Linda Evans? Surely, she would know by now if R is real or not.

There was a Brandy Knight ad in RSE newsletter Sep 07. http://knightlimousines.com/ Is that JZ's son? Has anyone ever asked why her sons and grandchildren are not in the school? They claimed to have seen Ramtha in her book. Surely, they would want to know more and participate in the school.

Maybe we should put an ad for friends and family that know JZ pre-Ramtha to come forward and tell their story.

Caterpillar has many questions ... for JZ

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:42 am

Cat,

I absolutely recall a number of occasions when R said that s/he would do "whatever it takes to get you to go home", including "I will lie to you".

There are some folks who believe that the Scams that go through RSE, are "tests" from "Ramtha".

If you give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's the case, then it begs the questions of who is Ramtha, really ? I mean, if the teachings hold true and we can create anything...that also means that Ramtha can create a TRUTHFUL way to "get us to go home".

:roll:

As for JZ's adult kids being in the school...they are not. Hmmmmm.

Glen Cunningham addresses the topic of JZ's kids and that they are not in the school. If you haven't seen the Glen Cunningham videos...you probably ought to. He's a former staff bodyguard whom David has interviewed in person. They're posted on EMF.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavid.........help ! :D

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:49 am

Here ya go?.

The Glen Cunningham Video Interviews September 1 2008. Yelm, Washington

EMF link
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=455

The Glen Cunningham followup Q & A Video Interviews October 20 2008.

EMF link
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=600
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:11 pm

Oh NO!!! My question is: Was anyone in the audience when R said he would do anything to evolve us ie lie, deceive? That's why we have the failed investments? We haven't heard that one although I do remember him saying said that masters often push people off the cliff if they are 'stuck' in that incarnation.

Yes. I was in the audience when R said he would do anything to evolve us, including lies and deceipt.

As to Omega, we were encouraged by R to invest and told that our Omega money (from Saint Germaine's wealth) was to be here in a "fortnight". People sold their assets in order to invest in Omega. When the return on our investment was delayed, we were told it was because of the doubt some of us were beginning to have as a a result of the "due date" getting pushed and pushed into the future. Then, lo and behold, we were told that the window for investing had been reopened, so many of us got excited and began liquidating even more assets and sending the cash to Clyde Hood. I never heard an explanation from R as to why we never got our fabulous wealth. Also, he never discussed Clyde Hood being indicted, found guilty, and sent to prison.

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Unread post by ex » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:16 pm

thats very ridicules anyway lieing and then be asked to be inpecable when the students pay.i bet there are' runners 'for people who look livestreams without reg.the whole omegascam was very clever steared .all of 'rams' infos i heard were cryptical like:your faboules wealth comes with the first snow.or it came from the downline like playing the omegamessage in the morning after a wineceremony.you all never wondert after the reopening ?when all the littel payments went via mu ???to?? clyde hood?i never got a reseed sent back.i was just hearing the end of it.wen jzr stated on stage:i never said your faboules wealth comes trough omega.it was dead silence.one or two were yelling fu...you ram...after this i still heard people discuss if this was the test and the money rolls in later.the only peorson which struck rich was jz herself.on a chrismasevent she stold as herself her storry how she bought shares from a company from petty cash and all the money she could reach.[also consider that she has this whole thing running that she ows the irs ? million?]so she must had have a sneaky bookkeeping beeing observed by the irs.and still be abel to pull cash out of jz inc.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:24 pm

California Dreamin' wrote:Also, he never discussed Clyde Hood being indicted, found guilty, and sent to prison.
Yes, that's true. It was all over the newspapers, students talked about it, but from the stage, it was, "Mum's the word".

What's more, is the students let JZR get away with the silence. Nobody stood up and asked about it. It would have been awkward to do, because JZR was fairly unapproachable. Can't challenge what isn't made readily available for DIALOGUE. It's only about monologue there.

The few times JZR has been challenged at the microphone, I have heard JZ herself have an edge in her voice and be condescending in her response. Hmmmm.

(David, you think she'll ever give you an interview ? ........... rhetorical question ........)

:-)

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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:35 pm

Hello guys
Terry Cole Whittaker :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have funny storys about her, I was close to her for few months,back when she was a preacher around San Diego, in 1985-86 after she took over her husband ministery.last time I spoke to her was after she moved to Washington and jointed the school,she was very suprised to see me there to say the list.
Do not known where she is now,she must still be looking for a new scam to make money.
As far has I am concern she did not moved to Yelm to Learn from Ramtha as much as to study or spy on JZ if you will
with the intention of doing the same thing her self.


My Two Cent

Oldone.

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:46 pm

(David, you think she'll ever give you an interview ? ........... rhetorical question ........)
Watcha...
I have no doubt that Judith knows about my request for an interview.
But..
I am as more likely to get an interview.. than Omega to pay out ..

Perhaps an interview with Clyde Hood would be more appropriate...!
Hey Clyde...
What was the purpose of your visit to JZ Knight in Yelm?
How far did your collusion with JZ Knight go?
What was discussed?
Did JZ Knight receive money from you/Omega at that time?
Do you have an apology for all those RSE members that you stole a fortune from? :cry:

Hopefully the police will interview Judith before I do...!

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:02 pm

Thank you for the link to Glen C. videos. Certainly sounds like R could be made up. I don't know how she does it though ie she 'passed' the scientific test and channeled for hours under the influence of alcohol.

Also watched Mafu. Very similar but not as good as JZ. I read somewhere that JZ said Penny went to RSE and is a fraud. :roll:

Just stumbled across this: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ramtha
Wasn't sure if EMF had an input. :lol: It's funny.

Caterpillar wants to know how JZ fakes it.

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:28 pm

That might be something to ask Blue Body...I mean, James!

Found this on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Cole-Whittaker


Verrrrry interesting. So Terry had her thing going on years before Judith ever encountered her "glimmerman" in her kitchen. ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Wiki

Unread post by Compassion » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:57 am

G2G

I post a comment on Terry..in the videos thread.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:34 am

Has anyone here ever contacted Anne Marie Bennstrom (owns the Ashram in California) or J. Mark Burnett (dentist in Washington state)?

Would be interesting what they have to say about JZ/R. Mark was the only 'witness' in the kitchen when R supposedly appeared to JZ.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:22 am

Cat,

AMB sent EMF an email. Just to answer your question.

It would be informational and helpful to hear AMB's version of her JZR experiences. Perhaps she'll consider that and post.

Some people just prefer to read and not post, for their own reasons. I respect that, though it's a bit frustrating at times. One can hope they will have a change of heart !

;-)


Don't know about JM Burnett. Perhaps you can look him up and give him a call !?

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:37 am

It's interesting that JZ's female friends are rich, famous and attractive.

I couldn't find much info on Marjorie Layden apart from being the founder of CSE. There was a teaching where Ramtha mentioned Dr Joe D's girlfriend has a private jet and transported them to an event. Is that her? There I was naively thinking that these rich people 'manifested' wealth while attending RSE. Sigh!

Caterpillar waking up and doesn't like what she's seeing in RSE

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:41 am

re Dr Burnett - can you imagine how many starry eyed ramsters over the last 30 yrs have tried to get close to that man and find out info re JZ?.... I know a few who went to him as a dentist... a dead clam has looser lips that Dr Burnett. Think about it - has anyone ever read a quote of his - in all the interviews and newspaper coverage of jz? he lives(d) in Tacoma - not like he was geographically inaccessible. Which is not to say don't try... just put yourself in his shoes, and imagine how you could be approached.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:57 am

AD60, :lol: re: Dr B. I was thinking that but I've to fly a long way to see him! He's a good dentist - look at JZ's teeth.

Whatcha, could EMF get AMB's permission to publish her side of the story?

There are still suckers from overseas that have just moved or are moving to Yelm so they can be close to the 'Ram'.

Caterpillar desperately seeking proof that RSE is a fraud :cry:

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:32 am

Cat,

AMB didn't offer to tell anything about her experience. If she ever wanted to, of course we'd post it. Well, rather I should say I can't imagine why we wouldn't.

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Proof that JZ/R teachings are not original

Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:14 am

Hello

Do you have a list of books that JZ/R could have obtained her teachings? I remember reading somewhere on EMF about Vera Alder. Do you know which book as she has written several?

It's interesting how my perception changed from Ramtha is real when I started posting here to it could all be fake, especially after watching the Marjoe and Mafu videos. My partner and I are even practising 'channeling' to see how well we can fake it. Deep breathing ... Indeed. :lol: Greetings, entity. What say you?

I had a conversation with another Ramster yesterday. I've learnt my lesson. That will be the last time I'm voicing my dilemma to fanatical Ramsters. They excused away all the discrepancies in the school to it's our fault and R is testing us. Sigh! Can't have a discussion when they are coming from the perspective that R is real. If it's any other organization, we would have taken RSE to court.

Caterpillar wants to learn to channel :lol:

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:44 am

Yes, there are several Vera Stanley Alder books. From the Mundane to the Magnificent is probably the one with the most Ramtha-type parallels.

As for talking to current Ramsters who have a reason to justify anything even the death of the tsunami victims...now you know. As it has been stated on here before, there's no convincing the convinced.

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Unread post by ex » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:01 am

At RSE "blue body" is a "so called" method of healing
which involves focusing on "shimmering blue webs" (borrowed straight out of a book by Vera Stanley Alder titled "From the Mundane to the Magnificent.")
This dogma (something put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds) was introduced in 1993 and I was there
FROM THE OLD BOARD cant find the ramtha vison yet.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:35 pm

re sources: the old emf site had several threads specific to such -- including Vera, Edgar Cayce readings (much/most of early material - to mid 80's - including, I suspect, the convoluted speech pattern of the early Ramtha), Taylor Caldwell (I'm just exploring that - recently found some of her old novels - I think the 'conspiracy'/grey men stuff came from her); read INDEED in the Bible recently - never noticed that before - in the Psalms; Joe has mentioned Theosophy stuff as sources; books sold at RSE, which Ramtha inspired to be written javascript:emoticon(':roll:') .... .... Prior to (almost) every home having a computer with internet access, JZ was on mailing lists of 'alternative' newsletters with much of the 'conspiracy/days to come' type info.
Speaking of Taylor Caldwell - just found/started a book The Lion of God re Paul - made me remember a Dialogue about 85 in which JZ did one of her entrancing story telling bits - re Paul.... Anyone have a tape?
Be interesting to ask Steve Weinberg his sources in putting together the White Book.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm

Cat... what's interesting to note re ramtha believers - different people say the very same words in response to people who've left; discrepancies in 'teachings'; emf; etc. - robbotic, rhetoric - a very big red flag.
When the Dialogues were first recorded Ramtha bragged how his words would hold true 100 years from now.... I keep trying to fit that with lie-ing to teach .... hmmmm

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Unread post by ex » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:50 pm

the old emf site had several threads specific to
i thought so too but its difficult to find.this sorce verification schould get an extra thread on emf.you remember were the quote out of the alderboock is?

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Unread post by Marie » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:12 pm

You know, what strikes me when reading this post is I'm not sure it makes any difference from where JZ lifted her material -- and I am not saying this in a flippant manner -- but I remember my mother talking about and reading Cayce since I was.... 6??.... Which was.........a LONG time ago....:-).... About 45 years.......And when she moved to Yelm recently she threw out most of her books because she couldn't take them with her, and I know among those were books by Adler and a ton of Cayce because I had to go through them and help her get rid of them... Sometimes I think I would have had a treasure trove of all the old literature Knight took her act from, and I knew that at the time... But honestly, I was just so turned off by everything "new age" at that point I didn't even want to look at any of it..... Anyway, my point is, that my mother has been reading all that stuff since long before she was hooked into rse -- my sister too, by way of all that early new age crapola from my mother -- and it doesn't make any difference.... I think on some level they must KNOW that Knight wasn't the first to deliver those "teachings" but it doesn't matter to them... I think the way they look at it, it just verifies what Knight says even more, because they have heard the same thing elsewhere. I have said this in another thread a long time ago, but I remember my sister showing me some video tape 20 years ago of what she said was "proof" that the "grey men" were running our monetary system and the world... Honestly, I couldn't make heads or tails out of the tape at the time, it was like one of Knight's "events"... Just a lot of people sitting around and not saying much for hours... I remember my sister being really angry with me that I did not see "how important this was"....

Just another reminder to me that I really haven't known my sister at all for the past 20 years or more... and just how much all of "this" has affected whatever relationship I might have had with her. As it is, we have none -- I mean, she literally has stopped speaking to me -- because I fail to grasp how enlightened she is and what she has done for me... Do you know that she wrote me a letter -- 20 years ago -- because she thought I wasn't grateful enough to HER for my sobriety??? According to her, it was because of her, and her candle focus and meditation that I stopped drinking... And do you know, that according to her, she could heal my torn ligaments "if I wanted her to"... but that it was very intense and took a lot out of her, so "I had to be really sure" that's what I wanted .. I declined, I mean, she saved me from drinking myself to death, I owe her my life as it is, it was too overwhelming for me to be indebted to her for yet one other thing!!... :roll: ...

Anyway, from my experience -- most of the books and literature all say different forms of the same BS type things.

Hug your family, smell the spring flowers, enjoy the birds, volunteer to help others less fortunate than you... THAT is the real deal.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

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Unread post by G2G » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:20 pm

Cat -

I have a *ton* of these books. I'll sift through and see how long it takes me to dig up Vera's book, and the page numbers of her own "encounter"
with a "being," as well as the "blue webs."

Indeed, ;-) so shrewd she is to have read these obscure books from long ago, and then bundle up the information into her own little version. There is no Ramtha. There is only Judith Hamption, having been a "voracious reader" by the account of her own husband, may he rest in peace, Jeff Knight.

I have a ton of books to dig through, but I will get back to you. Also, if you read Judith's "State of Mind," in it she states her then husband, Burnett, was reading Cayce, where he found mention of "the day the Ram came down the mountain." Judith was reading Cayce. No wonder why "her" teachings "resonate" with so many - she took what she read and packaged it very nicely. Good marketing team, eh? ;-) ;-) ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:35 am

http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK5MH42CQSEOO

The following is a post from the above site. The plot thickens. JZ, is this true? Can we verify this?
Kathy Alexander is a very very old school, "original" student who actually is an inner
circle person where ever she goes (think AMB).
She sewed the Rams' robes for a number of years, even after she left RSE.
She had hip replacement surgery about ten years ago.
She is a salt-of-the-earth type of person,
loves people,
and is very sincere.
I know her very well
and wish her the very best at this advanced stage of her life.

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:39 am

Maybe we should put an ad for friends and family that know JZ pre-Ramtha to come forward and tell their story.
jz, of course, has had them all, including her children and J. O. sign little pieces of paper that state
they will never talk about her until 25 years after her death.
They sign.
She gives the money.
All is well.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:43 am

Thanks for all your input. Marie, I agree that it probably doesn't matter where JZ got her material. It's interesting that your mother and sister still went to RSE as confirmation of what they already knew. However, my partner & I got hooked into RSE because we haven't heard the info before and thought wow - what great new teachings! We were under the impression that most of Ramtha's teachings eg blue webs were original. So we are shocked to find out from EMF that the 'old' books had already mentioned them. We like to read those books and some of those books are not in print now. I don't remember JZ/R referencing the 'old' books but RSE has patented heaps of their teachings like the pharmaceutical companies patenting every new molecule they discover. Every RSE and Kleiner's Korner newsletters are giving 'proof' that the scientists are now discovering what Ramtha had predicted years ago. It really gives the impression that RSE's teachings are original.

I mentioned in another post that my partner is reading a book called Influence - the psychology of persuasion by Robert Cialdini. He explains how we can be so gullible! :shock:

G2G, I'll look for Vera's book. I thought JZ mentioned that she was just an ordinary housewife and one day this being appeared. She was never into the 'new age' thing. I found out now it's the same story used by Penny Torres (Mafu). Hmmm

I think RSE sells 'hope' and we bought that at a high price.

Is there a good 'exit' book?

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:44 am

Do you know that she wrote me a letter -- 20 years ago -- because she thought I wasn't grateful enough to HER for my sobriety??? According to her, it was because of her, and her candle focus and meditation that I stopped drinking.
and on goes the madness of how people think when infected with the likes of RSE.
and AD60 thought it was me who had issues with current masters. lol.
look at Marie and her sister, who is a devout follower of ramtha.
no one faults Marie for seeing her sister's madness.

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:48 am

Is there a good 'exit' book?
Take Back Your Life
by Janja Lilich et all

and

I Can't Get Over It ( if it applies)
and
Get Me Outta Here (again, if it applies. If it doesn't apply, need not respond)

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:32 am

[/quote] jz, of course, has had them all, including her children and J. O. sign little pieces of paper that state
they will never talk about her until 25 years after her death. [/quote]


Tree, who's J.O.?

JZ is clever to sell shares in RSE. It doesn't matter anymore if Ramtha is real or not. The inner circle will not be leaving the school if they have invested in it even if they have proof that Ramtha is not real. It's now in their best interests to promote the school. It's also JZ's exit plan. She can leave anytime but Ramtha will always be around - the wind...

I wanted to buy into the school but didn't have enough assets or income :shock: Greg S. said it was a great opportunity and I felt honored that even I could get this close to JZ/R. :cry: What a buffoon or maybe it's a good investment? :roll:

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:52 am

and on goes the madness of how people think when infected with the likes of RSE.
Tree,
The madness of RSE is all about abuse and its denial.
As it is with your abuse on EMF...! that you still refuse to take accountability for.
and AD60 thought it was me who had issues with current masters. lol.
I can understand why you would think this laughable,
But the fact is.. Not only do you have ?issues? with RSE members but you have ?issues? with
the EMF moderators including myself.
Another fact is.... Marie?s post have always remained respectful on EMF, despite the terrible situation she has inherited at absolutly no fault of her own.
You however... have proved yourself to be an abuser on EMF and a ?stealth? one at that.
No different in my mind to the RSE staff that abuse their position and influence within the RSE organization,
rubber stamped by JZR.
There will be no rubberstamp for you on EMF. Those days are over.
This whole issue will be explored in the coming weeks on a new thread titled....Abuse on EMF.
Link?
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=742

along with several other ?stealth EMF abusers? that we have had to ?moderate? and endure these past three years.
Blatant examples will be posted.
I recommend AD60?s thread titled???
Behavior Patterns
EMF link
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=736

also??..

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissist ... y_disorder

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:08 am

Cat,

J.O. was one of JZ's "significant others". Or "partner". You get the drift.

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:57 am

ah

another fine example of the pot calling the kettle black.

many former members form their own groups and become leaders of such.

I rest my case.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:31 pm

Marie ? How courageous you are to have looked for/found emf in attempting to understand your Mother and Sister. What a painful journey it must have been/is for you - ? I wonder if your experience is like those whose family member/spouse is an alcoholic, or abuser, or has some chronic illness. In a sense, those of us caught in the jz web have been/are dis?eased. What I?m trying to say, not well, is that I feel for the hurt (inadequate word) you?ve experienced, and offer the notion that your treatment by your Mother and Sister is not personal, but more a symptom/result of their dis-ease. I would suspect there are other deeper dis-ease-ments in their backgrounds and the ramtha thing is only the mask through which their issues play out.
Your sister?s statement of how healing you is ?very intense and took a lot out of her? speaks loudly that she actually doesn?t ?get? what she?s spouting? sad, hurtful, laughable, painful. Wish I could find a recording in which ramtha spoke of ?egolessness?. In my opinion, healing doesn?t hurt, take energy, diminish. To not speak to a Sister because she doesn?t agree/understand is the opposite of Enlightenment, imo. If anything, your journey to sobriety was probably made even more difficult with so much of your Sister?s concept of you as alcoholic/energy directed at you.! Again, sadly, she isn?t able to see that yet.
Re JZ and information ? this is a very not simple situation, not black and white ? and there, it seems, ?is the rub? (whatever the h? that means!-just seemed the appropriate phrase) Anyway ? some of the info JZ ?teaches? is valid, some not. Perhaps the best plume line for discerning validity is your own perspective: if the info encourages/fosters/enables/points to : Hug your family, smell the spring flowers, enjoy the birds, volunteer to help others less fortunate than you... THAT is the real deal.
For instance, my experience with the info from the Edgar Cayce readings was a major hook into ramtha ? and the highway on/through which I escaped. The Cayce material consistently insists on God first ? whatever the God looks like to you, Love is always first ? whatever the situation, medical emotional financial, the question is always ?What is the Ideal? of the individual. Anyway, I know Joe S. also lumps Cayce in with everything New Age/not to be trusted ? and here?s not the space for discussing the Cayce readings perspective?. It was only an example that all the stuff may not have been crap, and, the similarity with JZ?s presentation was probably a subtle hook for your Mother.

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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:38 am

Marie and AD60,

I can relate to what you are speaking of in terms of a dis -ease which effects the one not in the group. One can be so focused on their loved one that they can be blinded in seeing what and how it all is effecting them-self. I can tell you for a fact that happened with me. I don't think if given a choice I would have done too much differently, after all the way one responds when they feel their child is in danger can bypass a lot of logic and move one directly toward response mode. I immersed myself in all things "cult" for several years which included working with other family members as well as group members, When I say working I do not mean payed, I mean pro-bono, I did have a self interest which I would disclose which was that in hearing others stories, it helped me understand and enlarge my perspective of what my daughters experiences might be like.

I saw that if I only spoke with "x-members" who were affiliated with the then "anti-cult" networks I got for the most part a cookie cutter perception. I broadened my contacts to current group members and others who had varying view of the phenomena that we all are perhaps too familiar with. This helped me in several regards. It continued to allow me to see the variety of opinions, beliefs, situations and the similarities within them , yet how in the larger picture how individually different they really are.

Several times I ran into those who were aware they were involved in a "cult" as most understand the term, yet when they described their former situations, I understood that they were better off in the group they were in then back in the life they described previous to the group. In these cases, they did not expect to remain in the group forever, so this is where the majority of our discussions went towards. Where did they see themselves after their group involvement? How did they feel the group was going to help them in getting there?etc. For the most part, in these cases they looked at the group as a stepping stones into "normal' society. A testing grounds of sorts where they can learn a way to be a part of something, feel empowered, and in so doing become a better, healthier member of society. One may find that hard to envision, but in these particular instances, it made sense, though I would not endorse that sort of prescription for the majority of persons.

It is interesting that you AD60 found the entrance also part of your exit. Reminds me of this quote:

"A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it" George Moore (of course in todays terms it would be man/woman, he/she)
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:12 pm

Hello everyone

Thank you for all your posts. Tree and David, I note there is some conflict here. I hope there will be a resolution.

I read some of Tree's posts and was very touched by her honesty and courage to speak up especially being an ex-staff. That gave me the courage to explore my own dissatisfaction with RSE and eventually contacting EMF and posting questions here, some of which were answered by Tree. I'm not taking sides as to the conflict but I wanted to say I was motivated to post on EMF because an ex-staff was on board and I had questions that I wanted answered by someone that was 'close' to JZ.

My partner & I have just watched LARSE video with Joe S. and Carroll C.. We also watched Jeff K and Glen C's videos. Thank you for producing the videos as they have helped us immensely to process our thoughts and come to terms with our choice of joining RSE and staying for so long. What buffoons! :shock: It's quite humbling to admit that to self!

I have asked heaps of questions here in the last 2 weeks and got my answers. There appears to be evidence that JZ/R's teachings are not original. Ramtha's predictions and comments to some people are not all accurate. Carroll discussed the scientific study of Ramtha and mentioned that the results may also be seen in persons with multiple personality disorders. My partner had a hunch that maybe JZ has the ability to move to a part of her brain where she can be the Ramtha character and speak for hours without notes and drink a lot. Ramtha could be just another personality that JZ slips into. That could explain all the discrepancies in RSE and lack of evidence of any extraordinary/supernatural ability of Ramtha, the ascended master. JZ is definitely a genius and RSE 'was' the best show in town for us. She is the best actress and deserves the top Academy award/Golden globe award.

After listening to those videos, I now have a better understanding of where I'm at and why I feel betrayed and angry. I'm certainly wiser now and will not be a 'follower' or put any teacher on a pedestal. I was a victim of RSE and their very clever marketing/NLP techniques. I gave my power away totally to JZ/R eventhough I was taught that I am God. However, I've also gained knowledge from RSE and have enjoyed the events and company of Ramsters. That is also the 'trap' and one of the reasons for not exiting when I noticed the hyprocrisies.

Caterpillar coming to terms with RSE

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Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:30 am

Caterpillar,

The response to your post has been moved in its entirety to the "Abuse on EMF" topic thread.

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=742

Thank you for your understanding.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:57 am

No problems, Webmaster and I've also posted a reply to 'Abuse on EMF'.

I've been questioning myself as to how I ended up in RSE and stayed for so long. There's a part of me that wants to believe that Ramtha is real. I figured it's the same part of me that wants to believe in Santa Claus, tooth fairy, Easter bunny and Disneyland. I was searching for the meaning of life and I bought the message of hope sold by RSE. After this experience, I've decided I no longer need to have all the answers and I don't need to seek other teachers' opinions on their meaning of life. I also don't need to be told what to do by JZ/R. I just have to believe in myself.

I thought of doing an experiment where I advertise that I am channelling somebody and have all the answers just to see how many 'suckers' would show up. I would refund them the money and reveal how gullible they are at the end. Maybe JZ started off this way but she took the money.

I have actually paid for my air tickets to go to an overseas RSE event but I don't want to play in Ramthaland anymore so I'll take a vacation instead.

Much wiser Caterpillar, no longer 'current'

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Channelled info ...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:04 am

P.S. JZ will exit RSE in 2012 before the 12,000 foot wave but the investors/inner circle will try to manage the school with the Wind if it's still standing. This is channelled information from Mickey Mouse.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:07 am

As seen in infra-red now ...

Mickey M.

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Investors' Circle

Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:55 pm

Catepillar said:

P.S. JZ will exit RSE in 2012 before the 12,000 foot wave but the investors/inner circle will try to manage the school with the Wind if it's still standing. This is channelled information from Mickey Mouse.
Hi Catepillar -

I have a question for you. I physically left RSE in 2000, and at that point in time (as I understood it) I never heard any talk of the investors circle. I'm curious--is the investors circle still alive in RSE? how is it being marketed?. i.e., does JZ get up on stage and promote, or does Greg Simmons have that honor?

Or maybe - just maybe - I had already unknowingly contributed to it under the guise of Omega! :twisted:

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:58 pm

Cat,

You can wonder if Ramtha is real, or ever was anywhere from 0 - 100% of the time. You have a right to wonder about it. You have a right to wonder about it and not be criticized or swayed. Time will take care of that. If you go through the rest of your life wondering if Ramtha is or ever was real, who cares ? If you go through the rest of your life believing that the Messiah coming is going to occur, or his Second Coming is going to occur, so what ? If you believe in the God Pan, so what ? I will suggest that it's less important to the fact that you questioned the RSE DOGMA for whatever reasons that you started to do so. That speaks highly of your critical thinking ability being intact. If it was only intact to the size of a mustard seed, then it might as well have been a mountain; it was enough to free you. Good on you.

I've seen people get, what I believe is, hung up on whether this or that is "real", when what matters is how they are functioning in their lives. What matters is that the person is exiting a cult-like or cult group, and they deserve to give and get respectful support, not pressure to adopt yet another theory or dogma. Let people be themselves, sans rudeness.

The real issue is when each of us looks at RSE, and lists the pros and cons based on our own opinions, personalities, expectations and attitudes, then we can make a decision about staying or leaving RSE. Additionally, we can look at the level of cost involved in leaving; are you (any of us) ready to deal with the pain involved in leaving ? Will it be too much to cope with the loss of what we think could be real "friends" in RSE ? Do we cringe at the thought of how much time and money we invested ? When thinking about those things, does it make us want to just go to "one more event" because it might get better ?

Having the guts to face being conned takes a certain level of courage to go forward. It also shows that there is a healthy level of discernment going on, at least at the end when one is able to face the mirror and one fine morn truly comes. We are freed from the RSE dogma and the closed-minded, narcissistic world view that it engenders. Also known as the "masters" versus the "villagers". Or more crudely stated, the "pearl holders" versus the "swine". "Ramtha" has told students not to cast their wisdom before swine. Speaks volumes.

Happy Spring. As a friend recently reminded me, a time of rebirth and renewal.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:39 pm

California Dreamin' , I asked this question on Page 1 of this thread and Whatcha replied: Quote: 'QUESTION: -Does RSE have shareholders - nothing more has been said since the initial email. Only the rich in the school could afford but isn't it only a handful? Same with the auctions. Who has the money?
ANSWER: Wow, really good inquiry. I had a period of time when I communicated (when EMF was in place already), with a person who attended RSE for a long, long time. This person chatted with me for quite a while, before finally saying they had something to share. I think, they were feeling me out to see if I felt safe to them. I will never repeat what I was told, beyond this, which I was given permission to share. That person wants/needs to remain anonymous, which is frustrating in a way, but I respect their choice. The person left RSE, after being hotly pursued by JZ (I was given copies of her emails), and also JZ?s accountant, for said person to invest in RSE. The person had a lot of questions and is high profile in their personal life. Anyway, in reading the responses to the questions, it was boldly clear to this (now) ex-student, that JZ was not interested in ?keeping the teachings pure? as we?ve been told and is used for the excuse to coerce students into signing the Conditions of Participation Agreement (gag order). The person realized that JZ had a PRICE and she was selling shares in RSE. They quit the school. As I said, there is even more to the story, but this is ?nuff said; the point is made.'


Here's a link about the investment in RSE on EMF:

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... olders#350


I (and students on the mailing list) got emails from JZ and her accountant in 2007 about investing in the school. Unfortunately, I didn't keep the emails. It was for RSE students and family, both US and non-US residents. The terms of investment were for a particular type of Corporation as per IRS laws. I can't remember which type. It was mentioned. From memory, I think it was a minimum investment of $100,000 and the investor has to be earning a minimum of $200,000 per year or have $1 million worth of assets. These conditions are required by law for that particular type of corporation.

One has to sign a confidentiality statement before viewing the prospectus. I didn't check it out. I should have as it would have been another Red Flag. :sad:

I know Greg S. also mentioned the investment at an event.

Anybody remembers more about the details?

I posted previously that people who have invested will never admit JZ is a fraud. It's now in their best interests to promote the school just like any other business venture.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Tree » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:00 pm

Caterpiller-

I do hope the people who were assuaged into investing
went the way of your friend. That would speak highly of them.
I would think if they saw what your friend did,
I think it would raise a red flag as well.
I don't know too many people who would
sell their soul for 100,000K if they saw
what they saw in the e-mails.
Greg S might be invested because
where else is he going to work??? He is no where near retirement age
and does not have 100K to invest.
Steve K does not have to work.
But Mike W has to as Michelle H.
All salesmen needing a job.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:35 am

Cat, "From memory, I think it was a minimum investment of $100,000 and the investor has to be earning a minimum of $200,000 per year or have $1 million worth of assets. These conditions are required by law for that particular type of corporation."

That is also what I recall.

Also, the person I was referring to, followed up after the email invites. They had a fairly long list of additional questions, directed both to JZ and her accountant. The person went through some real soul searching, after being in the school a long time. The content of the emails that the person shared directly with JZ, and also her accountant, were what was sent to me. What marketing. Anyhow, fortunately, the person saw through it and was quite distressed, as it was the turning point for them, that caused them to leave the school. A blessing in disguise. That's what really matters ! :!:

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:04 am

I haven't posted in awhile, because things seemed to be getting better. I'm glad to see that Caterpillar has his/her mind back. Congratulations! When my son-in-law flew out to Yelm, Christmas, to visit my daughter and the kids, his daughter said she wanted to go home, and came back with him. In early March his son came home for "about a month" to visit, and I let myself hope he would stay. My son-in-law had a sale for his business but said he was staying here, with his daughter, and hopefully, his son.

Then my daughter came for a visit and he did an instant flip-flop and says they are ALL moving to Yelm. He has never had the fortitude to stand up to her. I asked if he had just been telling me what he thought I wanted to hear, and he said NO, that he didn't decide until she got home. As it stands now, she is flying back out there, while he and the kids stay here, and he tries to sell their home and other property. Then she is to fly back, soon, to help with the moving, whether the other property is sold, or not. We had hopes but now they have been dashed!

Being possibly the world's greatest skeptic, I cannot imagine, with apologies to the very intelligent people posting here, how anyone can get sucked into this, but my family is GONE. Considering my wife's Alzheimer's and my physical condition, I don't expect, once they are gone, to ever see them again. I can only hope the son gets away to college and back to reality (the real one, NOT theirs) and that the daughter can keep her sanity until she is of age and can get out of there. MY daughter can stay there until she dies, if she wants. Of course she is convinced that she will live forever, ascend, or be transported to the Himalayas, or whatever the latest teaching is! :roll:
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:02 pm

Sad Grandfather, I was just wondering how you were. My heart goes out to you. It seems to me that the ultimate frustration, the ultimate angst in our human lives is when we see and warn others of danger and we aren't heard.
Your post opened my heart and reminded me to not give up, to love as best I can, and trust in Divine Order.
I weep with you - for your Family, and for all the Families.

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:00 pm

Thanks for your concern. At this point, I am trying to move on, since my motto has always been "If you can't fix it, why worry about it", but it's harder when it's your whole family.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Marie » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:31 pm

Grandpa...

I know exactly how you feel, as you probably know from reading this board that I lost my entire family as well... My mother and sister directly to rse -- mom moved there last October -- and my aunts and uncles, mom's brother and sister and their respective spouses when I had the nerve to question her move to Yelm to them... As you say, what can you do? Nothing to do but keep moving forward, although very sad, yes.. It's a little odd realizing you have no real family to speak of...My 16 year son is still with me, he lives with his dad, but we are close in proximity and relationship, but that's it. But I know that worse has happened to many. You're not alone, my thoughts are with you.

FYI, I talked to mom yesterday and she said she stopped taking her cholesterol med since moving out there -- she had triple bypass surgery about six years ago and we have a familial history of high cholesterol.. She has been trying the same alternative methods for lowering cholesterol that she's been trying for years to no avail... She said my sister's cholesterol is over still 500, which it has been for years... At some point, I know I'll get a phone call that one of them has died of a heart attack... Seems senseless, but their choice.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:44 pm

If they die because of following the false teachings, I don't know why it wouldn't be the same as medical malpractice? Maybe that wouldn't apply because Judy/Ramtha doesn't claim to be a physician, just a miracle healer?

You would think that Judy/Ram could be charged with contributing to their deaths, in civil, if not criminal court. Maybe it's like telling a child to jump off a building and promising them they can fly? Is there any law against contributing to the stupidity of another, or taking advantage of the mentally incompetent?

I keep looking for ways to bring the woman to justice, but she seems to have chosen her legal advisors well, and picked lawyers with no conscience, but maybe that is redundant!

Anyway, I appreciate the empathy and understand we are in the same boat.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Marie » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:24 pm

I'm not a lawyer -- althought I work for one!! -- but I think it would be like trying to hold alcohol distributors and gun manufacuturers for related deaths... That's just my opinion, not the people i work for... Although i have talked briefly to them about what justice can be done and really, as long as they fit the definition of mentally compentent to make decisions about their own affairs, it is considered free will.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:01 am

I'm sure you are right or something would have already been done. I do understand there is a difference between practical and legal mental incompetence. At this time, I wouldn't mind seeing my daughter get some life threatening disease, if it would wake her (or at least the kids) to the fact the whole thing is a viscious SCAM.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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A story ...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:45 pm

Hello Sad Grandfather and Marie

It is heartbreaking to lose your family to RSE. You cannot understand how they ended up in RSE and why they continue to stay there. What do they see in Ramtha/JZ and the teachings? Are they benefiting from it? Will they ever get out?

Here's my story on why I stayed for 9 years. Ramthaland is addictive for people seeking occult knowledge. Once you get a taste, you want more. I've loved all the teachings. They blew my mind away as they were so out of the box of the everyday mundane, groundhog day stuff. I was hooked the moment I stepped into Ramthaland. I got to do activities where I got proof that I was psychic. Hence, I wanted more. I bought books, tapes, CDs, DVDs, Tshirts, caps, posters etc so I could continue with the Ramtha fix after I went home. I met wonderful people there that thought just like me. We hung out after leaving Ramthaland. I played with more Ramtha stuff when I was at home. I went to the mandatory events and MORE. I couldn't get enough. I wanted to play in Ramthaland all the time. It was just an escape from Earth. I thoroughly enjoyed the camarederie and the sense that we were special in Ramthaland and was so loved by Ramtha. You know, he waited to talk to us after 35,000 years and would help us in this life and afterlife. I listened to everything he had to say.

What a fantasy! Yes, that's all RSE ever was, just a fantasy, a creation of JZ Knight for the whole family. Sad Grandfather and Marie, I wanted to explain the 'high' I got from Ramthaland and how addictive it can be.

One fine morning in March, I woke up and realize the money is not in the bank. I've spent most of it in Ramthaland. I didn't develop superpowers. I had to do a reality check FAST. I stopped playing with Ramtha toys and spent a few weeks exploring EMF. I learned all about MIND CONTROL and CULTS. I listened to other ex-Ramsters' stories. I found out that JZ Knight is a Cult Leader, a sociopath and she made up Ramtha, her imaginary friend. What a beautiful story. But that's all it ever was, just a story. JUDITH, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR YOUR DECEPTIVE BEHAVIOR, I know you are reading this.

I played 5 minutes of Ramtha and I have a distant memory of why I enjoyed listening to the story.

I DO NOT NEED to play in Ramthaland anymore. I've discovered that RSE is a DANGEROUS and EVIL place. It is a big, black hole that sucks you in. It is a DESTRUCTIVE CULT.

Sad Grandfather and Marie, I don't know what you can do to get your family out. I think they have to come to the realization themselves that RSE is just a fantasy. I was a fanatical Ramster and I've got out. There is still hope for your families.

Caterpillar becoming the butterfly, flying out of Ramthaland.

P.S. This is just my experience. Other people will have a different version.

Joke: Q: How do you identify a beginner student in RSE?
A: They are the ones with the money - but not for long ...

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Conspiracy theory ...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:17 pm

This is my theory. There has to be other people involved in this deception. Judith's other best friend, Linda E is hired to give her acting lessons ie personal acting coach. That's why she always got to the Void. Greg S. is hired as the master marketing guru and he perpetuates the deception. He knows it's all made up. James F. is also part of the act. They would have to be invested in RSE as well.

Shirley M. left as she discovered how profitable this New Age business is and started her own. Check out this link:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/25/us/wo ... wanted=all


Richard Chamberlain didn't stay long. He must have found out as he is an actor. Why does she enjoy the company of actors/actresses? Because she is one of them. She is the best of all and deserves an award for the Ramtha character. Clap! Clap! Clap!

Yesterday, I watched James Randi's fake Carlos entity when he came to Australia on Google. Listened to his 45 minute interview where he said it was modeled on Ramtha - Red Flag! Saw the movie, The Wave and watched Joe S. at the first LARSE meeting. I agree with 400 years of imaginary friends!

That also explains why Ramtha only channels through JZ and she sues everybody that claims to channel Ramtha. She is right! He DOESN'T even exist.

Caterpillar imagining possible theory of Ramtha

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:05 pm

Caterpiller, thanks for that! It is great to see you have your mind back, even if your money is gone forever! ;-)

I have learned much in my research of Judy/ram on the web, and talking to my daughter, before she decided talking to me was hindering her enlightenment and I was trying to make her feel "guilty" (a negative emotion) and trying to "manipulate" her. I know that what you say about the high is absolutely the truth, as I have seen it in her. Having lived for 74 years, being ripped off more than I care to remember, I have become a total skeptic, so I investigate anything very closely. My daughter, having lived a sheltered life, is too trusting for her own good, and inclined to believe anything, if it's what she wants to hear. I realize, now, that she was over protected and should have been allowed to experience more of reality growing up. That is, the hard REAL kind of reality, not the kind you create in your mind through fantasy.

If it was just her, and I was 20 years younger, I'd say let her have her fling and get a dose of REALITY. Unfortunately she has involved my only 2 grandchildren and because my son-in-law has no backbone or cajones, he has let her do it and is now going to sell everything they have built, over 22 years, and move the whole family out to Yelm. My grandson is a dedicated ramster, while the younger granddaughter was very happy to get away from it and come home to her Dad. Now she is going to be dragged back out there, against her will. As I said, if I were 20 years younger, but since I am a cripple and not in great health, I doubt I will live to see them get out of there. My wife has Alzheimer's, which is progressing, I don't expect she will even remember she has a daughter or grandchildren in a year or so.

Yes, I am a bit bitter! We devoted a big chunk of our lives to trying to teach our daughter some values when she was growing up. I spent a lot of time and effort, and some money, helping them set up his business and get where they are, and provide a future for my grandchildren. Now they want to throw it all away to go chase rainbows and give it all to a con artist. And as our lives are coming apart, and we could use a little help to keep it together, she says she must live her own life and that she is responsible for no one but herself.

They will see the light eventually, as most everyone does, but I'm not sure we will still be here to see it, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. She is an adult (approaching 50), at least chronologically, though obviously not mentally or emotionally. I can see, in her naive state that, being told she can become a god and live forever, free of illness or worry, that she would grab it. I would too, if I was too deluded to not recognize it for the scam it is.

Congratulations to you, Caterpillar, for becoming a butterfly and returning to the real world, imperfect as it may be.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:14 pm

Thanks again Cat. Aside from the absence of money in your bank account, were there any other indicators - red flags as they're called here - that something wasn't right in Ramthaland? How did you 'find' emf? Were there/are there people in your life who have simply loved you through your Ramtha era? Again I'm impressed by your willingness to research, 'hear' what you found, and act on it. Your posts here are very helpful.
And Grandfather - maybe moving to Yelm will ultimately help your Family see more clearly the game that's going on. How old is your Granddaughter? Old enough to call CPS?

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:02 pm

15
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by G2G » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:29 pm

Fifteen years old? Then she should call Child Protective Services, since she obviously does not want to go back out with her mother. There is hope, for you..and for her...which can turn into the real deal. You are in my heart and send much love your way!
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:39 pm

Thanks, I'll try to get that word to her. As I heard it (not from her) she had mixed emotions. She didn't want to move, but was glad the family would be all together again, even if in WA. I will make sure she knows that she can come here and have a roof over her head if she can't handle it, and I'd sure give her a place to live, or buy her a plane ticket, if she gets out there and wants to come home.

No doubt it would be a tough decision as she has always been close with her parents and brother.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Long reply to AD60

Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:24 am

Sad Grandfather, it is frustrating to watch your family's life being destroyed by RSE. I can understand why your son-in-law is moving to Yelm. He loves his family and wants to be with them. That's the best he can do at the moment as his wife is not going to leave RSE or Yelm. As AD said, moving to Yelm may help the family see through the fantasy and you could check with CPS what your granddaughter can do if she wants to get out.

AD, the RED FLAGS were everywhere but it was my quest for the occult knowledge and addiction to the Ramtha high that kept me going. Before I joined RSE, I consulted a psychic (I don't use them anymore) who informed me that RSE is a dangerous cult as he has a friend that left RSE. He gave me all the reasons ie RSE charges money, people lost money in scams, Ramtha's predictions were false etc. I did an internet search and the information was true and there were more stories of wine ceremonies etc. I'm a curious person and I wanted to see for myself so I enroled in RSE but got hooked. I never wanted to join a 'cult' but I was told many times at RSE that it is not a cult. It is a just a school of metaphysics/ancient wisdom. Yeah, right. Ramtha is real because the scientists have tested JZ and there is some phenomenon. JZ is the only true channel. I looked around me at the events and saw all these intelligent people, professionals and non-professionals that also believed in Ramtha. It must be OK for me to continue in RSE. Throughout the 9 years, I have also contemplated these questions/Red Flags which contradict the beautiful teachings:

First red flag - 35,000 year old being??? Seriously, if you believe that ... :roll:
Why does Ramtha need a bodyguard? Where are his superpowers? Why the yellow guards, red guards etc?
Why do his teachings often benefit JZ or in favor of JZ?
Why are the actresses and inner circle part of Ramtha's family and in high positions in his army? :roll:
Why does JZ take credit for the incarnations of famous women in the past eg Joan of Arc, Lily Langtree etc.
Why has no one ascended as the school has been going on for so long?
Why aren't JZ's children and family in RSE?
Why does she need plastic surgery and beautifies herself? Look at her photos.
Why does she have so many marriages/relationships often with much younger men?
Why does she get sick and consults health professionals when she/he gave us disciplines to heal ourselves?
Why do the teachers/green leaders have to provide feedback to JZ constantly about our progress in the events. Can't she remote view?
Why does she fly to interstate/overseas events when she/he tried to get us to bilocate?
Why did she establish JZ Rose in the city and sell expensive stuff?
Why did she sell the school at a high price?
Why did Ramtha/JZ give the impression that the teachings are original when they are not and managed to patent most of it?
Why did Ramtha teach in Assay 1 (in 2002?) that a proton has a neutral charge when it actually has a positive charge? Where is the real science?
Why is JZ so mean to her staff? Why are most of the staff so rude?
Why did Ramtha/JZ promote investment scams and vitamins/pills etc?
Why did so many students die and many are sick? Why so many poor students?
JZ has an expensive lifestyle (eg her mansion) and why does she allow the poor standard of living for her students at the events in Yelm?

The list goes on... I have asked the teachers and Ramsters most of these questions but the answers they gave were unsatisfactory and wishy washy.

I stumbled across the FACTNet posts by LARSE I think in late 2006 while googling Ramtha. I read a few of the posts but didn't think much of them as I still wanted to believe in Ramtha. However, in the last 6 months, Ramtha's high was just not good enough in spite of attending events, being in the company of Ramtha and videostreaming events. I began to question the RED FLAGS and was reading a few posts on EMF in between attending events. I was still fanatical about Ramtha but I was also hooked on the RED FLAGS. My curiosity got me into RSE but it also got me out of RSE! Tree's posts influenced me to post on EMF. I researched on mind control and cults. Carroll Cobbs' speech at the LARSE meeting about his realization of the false science on the explanation of the manifestation on the physical plane, was my deciding factor in exiting RSE. About the 'not very scientific study' on JZ, he mentioned that people with multiple personality disorders can also produce similar results. My partner (also in RSE) has an interest in physics and has never understood Ramtha's legacy teachings about the science. We knew Carroll was right and have enough evidence to prove that Ramtha is a fictional character. The 'cost' of exiting RSE is truly justified.

I was warned about RSE but I still joined RSE. I saw all the red flags and now I can answer why - Ramtha is not real. I agree with the book on 400 years of imaginary friends. They came from the same 'BS' source.

My partner & I are much wiser now. We had fun in JZ's fantasy world. There is no excuse for JZ's deception. At least, Walt Disney told the truth about his characters.

Here's a prediction to all current students: JZ will exit in 2012 as chaneled from Mickey Mouse.

Caterpillar's story.

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P.S.

Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:34 am

Just a footnote, I have often forgotten about the psychic's warning about RSE before I joined. He never experienced RSE and only told me his friend's story. I didn't pay much attention to his warning as he did not personally join RSE. Before I joined RSE, I questioned my 'friends' who had been in RSE (some current and some not) about my concerns and they assured me that it is not a cult but a school of ancient wisdom/metaphysics. They gave me the standard RSE responses to my queries. So I decided to experience RSE for myself as I believed it was just a 'school'.

What a trap! Eventhough I discovered LARSE in 2006, it's only in March, 2009 that I started to wake up from the Ramtha fantasy and did some research on mind control and cults.

I have an insight now into why people join cults, the difficulty in exiting cults and the families that suffer. All these people seem very intelligent and sane!

Caterpillar was once crazy ...

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:44 am

P.S. I was led to believe that the teachings were original so whenever I read any of the recommended readings or the scientific breakthroughs, that confirmed to me that Ramtha was right. I had no idea that IT IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND. JZ/R copied those books and scientists. She was an avid reader according to an insider.

What a trap again. JZ is such a sociopath, Judith are you reading this?

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:59 am

I just thought of another reason why I stayed in RSE. Ramtha gave his legacy teachings (final teachings during his time) around 2003 (?) and there was an assumption that he was leaving. JZ also mentioned that she was choosing to die and reincarnating in Africa during that time. There was no way I was missing out on such vital information. As the years went by, there was a feeling amongst students that Ramtha may be leaving and many people moved to Yelm. It was also supposed to be a safe place as Ramtha would protect the area. He was a real Father figure!

Sad Grandfather, there's the sort of madness that goes on in RSE students' mind.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:29 pm

Thank you so much Cat/Butterfly (don't want to abbreviate that! :lol:
Excellent summary - and I know will be helpful to others.
immediate 'ahs' in me - the fact that there are so many obviously intelligent, 'professional', apparently sane people in RSE (even amidst the 'fanatics' and the obvious not quite so mentally folks which were easy, for me, to dismiss in a sense - i.e. that any group of people has folks like that)
- the lure of more -- I'd not attended anything Ramtha for 2 yrs - the manifestation events I figured were all I needed. Somehow ended up going to San Diego to a C&E weekend - maybe it was called a Beginner's -- and got snookered into believing this was the next step.
- then there was the first Assay - I have a clear picture of being in the pasture standing around 'ramtha' midst the crowd circling her - and in that quiet calm obviously masterful voice speaking a high truth she said: if I only had you for 11 days(or whatever) you're consciousness will be forever changed. ... Hooked again - because for me it had become important that I didn't get just words/ideas, I wanted to see a difference in me/my life.
If we could communicate/break through with only one concept to current Ramsters it would be to recognize this lure of more/the next step.
The next obvious concept - it is a repeatable pattern since at least 1984 of jz or ramtha stating they were leaving.... It's either a flat out marketing technique, or, could be when jz gets stuck for what to teach next.
Another not quite so obvious concept is for Ramsters to recognize they're all saying the exact same words in response to the same question -- it's so Stepford Wives sometimes it's scary -- the same words re someone who no longer attends, the same words re emf, the same words about any question such as yours described above. It's one thing when you consciously repeat a catechism, it's another when you don't recognize that you're not speaking your own words and thoughts.
- Even when I found obvious plagiarism, although I'm sure it was a crack in the wall that blocked my awareness! - I blew it off -- don't remember how I rationalized it, but it wasn't enough.
What's most fascinating, intriguing about your journey is your statement re it was your curiosity that got you in and out.... Similar to my recognizing that what I had learned from the Cayce Readings helped hook me in, and the application of what I learned got me out....
I wonder if that's so for others - that is, the same 'highway' on which they traveled to get hooked into jz/ramtha is the same 'highway' on which they traveled out. hmmmm. something to think about. And, it's always fascinating to me the moment of the click, the moment when it is done, the recognition of no more re attending jz's events. the moment of epiphany.
Thank you again. I so appreciate your posts.

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[b]Mind control in RSE[/b]

Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:48 am

AD, I just realized some of the ways RSE uses mind control tactics. The wine ceremony is a great way to suspend critical thinking and absorb everything that Ramtha says. You don't think when you are drunk. All in the disguise of dropping the veil and suspending the personality. Anyone that objects to drinking wine will leave the school. That's great because RSE does not want those critical thinkers in the school. They are disruptive to the group.

Blue College is the ultimate tool as it maximises all mind control tactics ie elitism, fatigue, lack of sleep, change in food habits (self-sufficient foods are used if no food vendors), fear of not being tough enough etc. All of the above will stop you from critically thinking. The same tactics are used in the wars to influence prisoners into making statements that they wouldn't normally make against their own country. Hence, students in BC are even more brain-washed and they stop thinking.

Another tactic is the use of fear. The fear of days to come predictions also help create a more cohesive group. Some of these predictions are so ridiculous that if they do happen, no one on earth will survive anyway - eg 4000 foot wave. My partner says he will surf it when it comes. :lol: Evidence of this fear is the frenzy and panic of any Ramster that hasn't prepared undergrounds, food, water, clothing, gold, silver etc. Anyone who does not believe in some of the ridiculous predictions will leave the school. RSE prefers them to leave as they are thinkers. The school doesn't want thinkers, they only want believers.

Remember, Judith does not want anyone that is a thinker as you cannot control thinkers.

Perhaps Hitler's quote is appropriate here: "How fortunate for Leaders that men do not think". Judith is the leader of RSE

Caterpillar thinks.

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Unread post by ex » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:08 am

you remember the salespitch:invite someone to the school you care about but not a critic.yes people who think are not welcome.

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Unread post by sara » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:26 pm

I remember actually being told my my RSE friend that "red wine switches off the yellow brain so that you can take in new information more easily"! It didn't occur to me that I might be taking in a whole lot of crap - how open and trusting most of us were...

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:07 am

I just watched JZK/R on Merv Griffin show (1985) for the first time. JZ was such a bad actress. Ramtha looked so fake. Derren Brown would have done a better job. I'm also watching some of his videos. This is part of my deprogramming process. :-)

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:10 am

Caterpillar wrote:I just watched JZK/R on Merv Griffin show (1985) for the first time. JZ was such a bad actress. Ramtha looked so fake. Derren Brown would have done a better job. I'm also watching some of his videos. This is part of my deprogramming process. :-)
I have been told that tapes exist of Judy channeling Jesus. That should be interesting fodder for your recovery.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:11 am

yes Cat, I have to agree that fear is a very big factor with jz/ramtha. You may have missed the fear of 'going to the light' and being consumed by other dimensional beings. There was an overall fear of dying instilled - The DTC fears seem cyclical - slowed down a bit and re-vitalized after 9/11. Part of my waking up process - I asked a friend why she left - one of the points she made was how much fear we lived under -- I discounted that - I wasn't afraid of dying, it was living that was the challenge for me. Nevertheless, at the next event I attended, I took a step back, so to speak - and recognized the fear factor.
There's also the fear that ramtha will point you out as a failure, a fear of not 'achieving' and being dubbed lazy, not passionate enough, etc.
Then there's the fear of leaving - especially for people who live in Yelm - in particular those who have no relationships with anyone outside of the jz/ramtha; as well as for people who have burnt their bridges - and have no home to return to. My heart goes out especially for people from another country who can't get home.
Perhaps the encouragement of fear can be a red flag in any situation - even in churches -- the ultimate essential message from true Spiritual Traditions is not fear.
JZ excels at dividing people within themselves - denial of emotion, denial of questions, denial of valid doubt, denial of the fear she fosters at every opportunity --- no matter how valid the info or even the so-called disciplines - they can't work in an inner environment of division and fear.
Derren Brown blows me away - even if, as someone suggested, we only see the 'successful' cons.

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:21 am

I can identify with the 'fear factor' as I was brainwashed from birth into fundamentalist baptist doctrine, and was assured that if I questioned my "faith" I would burn in hell for eternity. Even after I saw all the contradictions, I lived in fear until I was able to be 'saved' from my previous indoctrination, through reason and logic, so in that respect, I may have something in common with escaped ramsters.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:34 pm

Nice insight Grandfather. Unfortunately too many of us were brought up with a fear of God - fear meaning afraid, guilty, worried, anxious, not enough etc. The "fear of God" in the Bible, truly translated would be more like - what a little boy at Christmas time feels like going to the big department store with his Mother, riding in that mysterious small room that moves, getting out at the toy floor and seeing before his very own eyes every toy he could possibly imagine and more - fear as in overwhelming awe of such Presence that Is for me (and every other child).
I think that the negative fear of God is part of what allows us to get lured into someone such as jz. Especially in the early years it was all about Love. God is Love, we are Loved, we can be as Loving as Jesus. Perhaps that's why the "White Book" is used to lure people into the more contemporary ramtha - which lays the foundation, in a sense, for the schizophrenic/splittedness of participants -- because the "School" teachings are 180 degrees different than the 'teachings' of the late 70's to mid-80's.
IMO true learning can't happen in fear, certainly not 'enlightenment' - whatever that is! Ironically, for me anyway, even though I did the foood storage thing and the underground thing, I didn't recognize the fear factor. It wasn't until I left/arrived at done-ness that I realized how much extreme stress I'd been under for so many years.

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INTERESTING DISCOVERY!

Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:24 pm

Just discovered something INTERESTING! Judith on Merv Griffin show in 1985 mentioned that Ramtha appeared to her on a Sunday afternoon on Feb 18, 1977. (Feb 18, 1977 is actually Friday!)

In the old 'A Look Within' video from RSE, the date Ramtha appeared to Judith is Sunday afternoon but on Feb 7, 1977. This is mentioned at the beginning of the video. The school also has a DVD called The Quintessential School of the Mind (my copy was produced in 2005) and there is 'A Look Within' segment there and Ramtha appeared to Judith on Sunday afternoon, Feb 7, 1977. (Feb 7, 1977 is actually Monday!)

Wikipedia states Ramtha appeared on Feb 7, 1977. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Z._Knight

From RSE website, it is Sunday afternoon, Feb 20, 1977 that Ramtha appeared to Judith. http://www.ramtha.com/html/aboutus/faqs/jz/who.stm

The most accurate answer is the RSE website ie Feb 20, 1977 which is Sunday.

http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/mon ... &country=1

Hmmm, you would think she would remember esp on Merv Griffin show in 1985 as it wasn't that long after. Obviously, someone on RSE website checked the calendar when they rewrote the history of the day when Ramtha appeared to Judith. :shock:

I can only guess RSE's reply: There are different potentials when Ramtha appeared. :roll: Another red flag!

I was thinking about the Jesus discrepancy in court. Judith must have told the truth in court that she didn't channel Jesus. She just lied to us when she pretended to channel Jesus. So that was the truth in court??? Or is it another parallel universe excuse???

Caterpillar deprogramming and collecting red flags on RSE ...
[/b]

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Links

Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:45 pm

P.S.

Link to JZ on Merv Griffin show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK14JfRiNQ4

Link to 'A Look Within' video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9yDssY6U5A

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:53 pm

This is strange. The links don't work since I've posted here. The two videos on youtube don't work either but other videos on youtube work.

Hmmm...

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Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:37 pm

Caterpillar,

The links are working fine,
Thank you for posting.

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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:06 am

Caterpillar
This is funny,and very very good
Thank you

Oldone

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Query for Joe S.

Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:15 am

While searching for the book, 400 years of imaginary friends, I come across this website by Sean Prophet (Elizabeth Prophet's son):

http://www.blacksunjournal.com/about He started another website called Atheism Online. Sean also mentioned an 'imposter' website by a former CUT member.

Joe, there are 2 used copies from Amazon from $200. Do you know if I can find it anywhere else?

Thanks.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:04 pm

Hi Caterpillar:
Forgive my butting in, since the post is addressed to Joe S. If you are thinking of trying another religion, i.e., atheism, I'd like to repost my "religious" experience (no, no, it's not what you think). These beliefs have served me well, for years, because they came strictly from logical thought and reason, with no outside teacher. This is posted under " Friends and Family Members and the Cult Experience ? STARTING A NEW LIFE", but I have copied it below.

Interesting thread on religion! I'll share my experience of being saved FROM the church. I was 44 years old and had been brainwashed frombirth with fundamentalist teachings. I had been having doubts, for years, about all the arbitrary stuff they were telling us at church. I had stopped attending regularly for some time, but still lived in constant fear that if I didn't believe everything I was told, that I would burn in hell for eternity. I had a terrible auto accident, was in a coma for 3 days, and after a lengthy stay in the hospital, came home with both arms and a leg in casts. The church folk started coming by to visit, and instead of offering comfort and asking if there was anything they could do, they were telling me that this was God's punishment for not being faithful to the church.

With nothing to do but sit in my wheel chair and think, I managed to think my way right out of the church and form my own beliefs. I faced up to some questions -
1. How do we know which is the one "true" religion?
Answer: Out of all the hundreds, if not thousands of religions, in the world, most telling their sujects that theirs is the only way to Heaven, how is one to know, which is right?? Logic says they can't all be right, in fact, no more than ONE could be right. Logic (God?) also told me that the God of the universe would not send one of his own to hell just because he happened to have been brainwashed from birth into the wrong religion. Therefore, I concluded, they were all of man and NONE of them were right.
2. Is there a God?
Answer: Which is more likely, that all the vast, infinite universe just "happened", or that there is an infinite power who created it all and controls it? I chose to believe their is a higher power.
3. Did God create the whole thing in 7 days, as told in Genesis?
Answer: What is a day? It is the time it takes the earth to rotate once on it's axis. BUT before the earth was here, what was a day? Maybe it was the time the universe rotates once or maybe the time between one 'big bang, until the galaxy stops expanding and collapses on itself to create the NEXT big bang. Even if the Bible was devinely inspired, it had to be written at the level of understanding of the people of the day and the actual writers, so many of the terms are meaningless.
4. Does God have a "personal relationship" with us? Does He micromanage our lives?
Answer: If prayer gives you comfort, go for it. BUT, if you then sit around and wait for God to answer your prayers, expect to have your faith tested. Remember, God is the controlling power of the vast, infinite universe. We live on a tiny speck of dust orbiting a very minor star in this universe. There are an infinite number of other stars with planets, which surely harbor other intelligent life. Sure, he is infinite and all powerful, but he set this thing up to run according to his natural laws and doesn't need to be constantly fiddling with it. Remember, God is infinite and all powerful. He is much farther above us than we are above that bacteria in the colon someone mentioned, or even an amoeba in our sewer.
5. Is there a place of punishment, i.e., hell for those who do not toe the line?
Answer: As mentioned above, would a loving God (or even an unconcerned one) sentence a person to eternal torment, because he was brainwashed from birth into the "wrong" religion?? Example: A child is born into a radical Muslim family. He is sung to, in his cradle about the glories of martyrdom. He is saturated with this teaching all his life. When he is 14, they strap a bomd on him and he goes to blow up a nursery school. He appears before God (now being all knowing) and say, "I can't believe I did such an evil thing!" Would God not say, "Welcome back to eternity, for you knew not what you were doing"?

My beliefs are now very simple: In the beginning (actually there can be no beginning, or end, of eternity), God created the Heavens and the Earth, along with the entire, infinite universe. How he did it, whether by big bangs, evolution, or whatever, is for Him to know and for us to wonder about. He set it up to run according to His natural laws, so it would continue to operate for eternity.

Then MAN created religion, in all it's many forms, and things have been screwed up ever since!

I have no problem with anyone's religion, if it gives them comfort, and does not do harm to themselves, or others. If you like my beliefs, welcome to them. If you want to join my 'church', forget it! Go start your own. :lol:
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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More on Judith ... and a question

Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:14 pm

Sad Grandfather, thank you for your thoughts. Since RSE experience, I'm definitely NOT trying another religion. FYI, I was born and bred as a Catholic before I found theosophy err RSE, now that I know what RSE is about. The only 'group' I'm in is EMF as I find it therapeutic in processing the aftermath and I hope my postings would help current students that may have doubts about RSE. I'm exploring critical thinking and in the process, stumbled across skeptics and debunkers eg Derren Brown, James Randi, Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins etc. It's eye opening to see them expose people like Judith and how gullible we are as we want to believe in something, anything, just to escape this reality. It would be the day if one of these skeptics attend RSE and expose it in the event.

Back to Judith. After listening to Joe S.'s talk at LARSE meeting, I had a look at theosophy and rosicrucian and I can find similarities with RSE. :shock: Obviously, Judith stole the philosophy from there and packaged it under new teachings from Ramtha and made $$$. It seems that Judith also got her ideas from various sources eg Val Valerian's Matrix books, Hinduism etc. At a recent event, Ramtha encouraged us to tell everyone about RSE and NOT to be ashamed of him. This shame is the RED FLAG ie 35,000 year old being??? :roll: Student numbers must be down. Judith uses Ramtha to influence the students. The teachers and students often say, 'Ramtha wants you to do this... ' It's not as influential if Judith had said it.

I was browsing through Judith's book, 'A Sate of Mind'. Eventhough I've read it years ago, I did not notice this discrepancy. I've been to a few of her introductory lectures where she told her story about how Ramtha appeared to her. She would always mentioned how she was just a happy housewife, married to her husband then, the dentist (his profession adds credibility to her story). She also mentioned this on Merv Griffin show. What I discovered now is that from her book on Page 279, she was single in Jan, 1977 and decided her family needed a 'masuline influence in their lives'. On page 280, she also prayed that 'she did not need to work and provide for her family'. (Funny that as Ramtha has mentioned in a negative way about women that don't work and expect their husbands to provide). So she and her friends went to the Roadway Lounge where businessmen, doctors, lawyers, ($$$) etc hang out. That's where she met the dentist presumably in Jan, 1977. About a month later in Feb (whatever day), 1977, Ramtha appeared to her. She wasn't exactly a 'housewife' in the proper sense as she only met the dentist in Jan. In her own book on Page 287, she married the dentist on Aug 27, 1977, 6 months after Ramtha appeared to her. She 'became a happy housewife and mother'. These are her words. Then why does she perpetuate the lie that she was a happily married housewife to a dentist when Ramtha appeared. She only met the dentist about a month ago. Hmmm... More disinformation...

I'm disappointed that Judith is a fraud and that I've been duped so I'm 'debunking' the myth of Ramtha.

I have a question for EMF. Has anyone figured out how Judith managed to drink all that alcohol when she claims to dislike red wine and also hold it in without going to the toilet? My thoughts are perhaps she was drinking grape juice or pretending to drink as the goblet is opaque. As to the toilet, maybe she is wearing incontinence pads. Ramtha is always wearing baggy clothing.

Caterpillar is debunking Ramtha.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:55 pm

Caterpillar,

Remember the times when Ramtha would go back outside of the Door 5 where s/he came in from ? Or we had long latrine breaks and waited ? Or we were wearing our blinders during C&E ? That's when JZ went to the bathroom.

As for what's in the bottles, JZ was drunk. How many times did we hear about how many bottles of wine s/he could "hold" ? Yet, it always deteriorated into attacks upon the students, verbally, emotionally, sometimes physically. How is that "holding one's wine" ? S/he has vomited on the stage, fallen over, cried like a baby, walked in a stumbling fashion, ... i.e. drunk. What was in those bottles ? Who knows. It was only a couple of people who ever opened those bottles. We were told if we doubted what was in the bottles, to come up and check. Nobody did. When the offer was made, it was probably wine.

Thanks for sharing about the contradictions you found in the State of Mind book. Good detective work, Cat !!!

I was just reading about how 90% of the people who enter a cult, leave it. Typically by 2 - 3 years. That's hopeful for Sad G, and anyone else. The article I read said that after 3 years, people are more likely to want to commit to the group, because they are more 'invested' in it.

As for EMF, it, too, as been criticized as being an anti-cult-cult. That's plainly, crap. Nobody chases anyone who leaves here and we don't encourage anyone to stay, either. We hope that this forum will serve you as a stepping stone, whether that takes a few days, weeks, months or years. It's totally up to you with no strings attached...................................well.........'cept play nice :D

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 pm

Whatcha, I'm on a mission to debunk Ramtha. :-) It would be harder to leave the longer one stays in a cult. We got out!

I may find more discrepancies in 'A State of Mind' when I examine it with a fine tooth comb.

Another thought after watching Derren Brown. The initials J.Z. subconsciously also mean J.C. ie Jesus Christ. I also remember Ramtha saying that JZ was not happy with the rapper's name, Jay-Z and tried to get him to change his name but couldn't.

RSE = Ramtha's School of Entertainment ...

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:01 pm

Hi Cat,

Good ! Keep searching. It's a bit humorous to watch how we each process our time Out ! We're all heading toward the same goal; moving on, in our own ways.

Ramtha's School of Entertainment ! LOL

hmm...

Ramtha's School of Entrapment :evil:


I like your mission. Those who read EMF and are "on the fence" (and they do read, and later post), will get food for thought, too.


JZ - Jesus Christ. Yes, I had figured that out, too. blech.

I can say this; I am SO glad I am not JZ Knight. I hadn't heard JZ tried to get Jay-Z to change his name; but, it figures. So fitting of her narcissism. What nerve....shaking head....

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:00 pm

re emf as a cult: (I posted this previously) perhaps our participation on emf is related to the same hunger that led us into jzland - the desire to know and understand and grow. The big big big differences - there are no fees, no financial gain for anyone - in fact, financial loss for the webmasters; nothing to join, no group, no specific belief system, no particular point of view (except the clearly stated purpose of the website and clearly stated guidelines for posting). We're free to come and go at will. The moderators do their best to keep the site clear of spam and porn, and abusive posts. There's no single leader to follow or agree with - a diversity of people with a diversity of backgrounds experiences and perspectives. There's no use of manipulative techniques, nothing being sold, no prominent personality to obey. There's no structure, organization, group to belong to. There are only a few people who have dedicated their lives to providing others a constructive playground on which to play and learn, if they choose - or not. Even after many years as an 'ex', I continue to learn and increase my understanding and am greatly appreciative of this message board and its posters.
And I agree that we do need to be more mindful of what we get 'hooked' into. Even as valuable as emf is, participation by reading and or posting needs to be kept in balance with the rest of our lives. Unlike a cult, there is nothing being done overtly or covertly to make you participate or keep coming back. Many folks have come and gone, some to return, some not.
re discrepancies between Les Sinclair interview in beginning of Honolulu Dialogue video and jz's autobiography - someone I know who knows someone(and the source is irrelevant to the point) found many many many discrepancies between the two - asked jz's office, in innocence re the discrepancies, and was taken off the mailing list. I'll see if I can find out some specifics. Meanwhile -- GOOD JOB CAT!!!
has someone already noted: ramtha's school of entrapment? :roll:

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:33 am

Another Dimension60 wrote:re discrepancies between Les Sinclair interview in beginning of Honolulu Dialogue video and jz's autobiography - someone I know who knows someone(and the source is irrelevant to the point) found many many many discrepancies between the two - asked jz's office, in innocence re the discrepancies, and was taken off the mailing list.
i can vouch for that. i know of times when people have been deleted from the rse mailing list.

feelin' the love !!!!!!!!!

LOL !! 8)

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More debunking

Unread post by Caterpillar » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:57 pm

I found this recently posted expose video on you tube on What the Bleep: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlPiXNlhKFo

Re: the previous posts, sounds like I won't be getting a reply if I asked RSE about their discrepancies. I was quite tempted to.

I haven't seen the video interview with Les Sinclair. Would be fun to watch it now from a different perspective.

R.S.E = Ramtha's School of Enlightenment alright (your wallet is so light, it can actually levitate ...)

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Unread post by Jay » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:22 pm

"Anyway, in reading the responses to the questions, it was boldly clear to this (now) ex-student, that JZ was not interested in ?keeping the teachings pure? as we?ve been told and is used for the excuse to coerce students into signing the Conditions of Participation Agreement (gag order)."

Hello. New guy here.

I am curious why students who sign the "gag order" don't simply assert that they signed it in another timeline?

Ramtha gets away with that line all the time.

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Purpose of EMF

Unread post by Caterpillar » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:54 pm

I've to admit that when I was browsing through EMF in the past, I often wondered why the people here 'wasted their time' posting about RSE when they have already left the school. Why rehash the past? I used to think they could never discourage anyone from joining RSE or change current students minds about RSE.

I was completely wrong in that regard as I'm 'technically' still a current student and with EMF's help, I have exited RSE and now even think that Ramtha is not real. My partner, another current student has also exited RSE the same time. So there are two students that have left RSE, thanks to EMF.

I've also now understood my judgement on ex-Ramsters posting on EMF. I'm one of them and it is therapeutic for me at the moment to post. I think it's morally wrong for Judith to perpetuate the lies and I like to warn others about it. It's still up to them to make up their minds but at least, I've done my bit.

Whatcha, thank you for the link to Jason Beghe's Scientology 2 hour video. It was awesome! What he went through with Scientology was exactly the same process that I had gone through with RSE and probably most people here. I love his swearing as I think the same about RSE but just cannot post on EMF in the same 'f*****g' manner.

Caterpillar loves to swear about RSE

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What's new?

Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri May 01, 2009 2:25 am

There's a 'new' Evening with Ramtha 05/01 - The Continuance: State of Consciousness. http://www.ramtha.com/html/events/current_2009.stm

I think it's the continuance of being mind controlled by RSE. This is video streamed live to all current students around the world so NO ONE misses out.

Also a new DVD on Candle Focus $19.95. http://store.ramtha.com/Store/item/D09CF

What more can we learn about candle focus? I heard that the main discipline of Blue College 2009 was candle focus. The students paid all that money for a discipline they can do at home. :roll:

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Outsider's observation of Ramsters

Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri May 01, 2009 3:58 am

The following observation of JZ on Merv Griffin Show is taken from Past Deadline by Ray Richmond.

http://www.pastdeadline.com/2007/08/my- ... e-and.html


'It was time for J.Z. Knight to come out. Merv introduces her. The crowd, all evidently Ramtha-ites, gave her a raucous standing ovation. As she took her seat next to Merv, Knight lowered her hands and the crowd grew instantly silent and seated. It was eerie. I looked at some of my co-workers standing nearby, and all carried an expression of fear, as if we'd just crashed a cult gathering and we were the only ones who had been denied The Answer.

Merv asks Knight all of ther proper question about how all of this happened, why she was chosen, what she thinks it means, blah blah blah blah blah. And then Merv summons Ramtha to appear. As soon as he does, Knight closes her eyes, begins rocking back and forth and emits a low humming sound. This continues for -- no joke -- more than three minutes. You don't know how long 180 seconds can be until you see it played out before your eyes as dead air time. Merv looked totally uncomfortable, alternately looking at the control booth and at the rocking guest beside him, once shrugging while making eye contact with the producer as if to ask, "What now?"

Finally, at right about the 3 1/2-minute mark, Knight opens her eyes, bolts upright, springs to her feet, thrusts her right fist in the air and screams, "INDEED!!!!!!!!!!"

On cue, the audience rose as one, thrusts fists in the air and answered, "INDEED!!!!!!!!!!"

For the first time in my life, I knew what it was like to inhabit a mental institution. For these people, this woman was God. To me, she was a transparent opportunist. But at that moment, she owned the world -- on TV, preaching to a roomful of spellbound followers. Merv, for his part, was flabbergasted. His body language said it all: his face looking at Knight/Ramtha, his torso leaning as far back in his chair as it would go.'


Aren't we glad we got out of the mental institution?

Caterpillar :lol:

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Judith was challenged

Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri May 01, 2009 3:14 pm

Did you know that Carl Sagan and others challenged JZ Knight and other channelers to prove their claims? Of course, Judith did not take up the challenge.

Here's the article:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys2/csicpcon.htm

Judith's reply from the article:

'In a statement issued by spokesman Les Sinclair, Knight replied: "Isn't it
wonderful we have a society which allows us freedom of speech, movement, ideas
and beliefs." She also said it was wonderful the skeptics "can attain national
media attention which allows them fame and glory. God bless them." '


The fame and glory which Judith accuses the skeptics of attaining from debunking the 'frauds' is NOWHERE near the fame, glory and money $$$ she makes. Who is more famous and wealthier, the debunkers or the entertainers (channelers)?

Furthermore from the article,

"People have a right to believe anything they want, and if they want to waste
their money, they have every right to do so," Kurtz said. "Unfortunately, a
great number of sincere people are taken in."
Randi said if people don't treat supernatural claims with skepticism, "they
will start to vote for and give their money to people who promise them fantasy
instead of something real."


Let's NOT be taken in anymore by these DELUSIONS.

Caterpillar

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Fri May 01, 2009 6:10 pm

Caterpillar (or should we start calling you butterfly?), I just wanted to let you know you are not just talking to yourself, since I am reading all your posts. It's just that, at this time, I don't have much to add. Keep up the good work! I emailed a group of your posts to my grandson, who said he would read them. In his last email he said he had not read it yet, but might get around to it. I have emailed him twice, since his last contact several days ago, without response, so I guess he felt I was a "bad" influence.

I mentioned in one of his emails about "shaking his faith" and I was told there was no "faith" involved. It is all proved by science and Quantum Physics. He is to go to college in the fall and wants to study Quantum Physics. I told him I thought that was a great idea. I hope they don't contract with Judy to teach the college course. :roll:
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Wed May 06, 2009 6:48 pm

-Moderator comment-

Dear Caterpillar,

Your excellent post has been moved to its own topic thread..
Message Board Forum Index > Academics: Books & Videos forum <

To view post...

RSE's recommended reading...
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=767

Thank you..:D
The Moderators

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Cards

Unread post by voidgate » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:26 am

Caterpillar, I just read your first post that initiated this thread. This is relevant to your question about Kenny. I used to spend many hours focusing as I was unable to find work in the Australian labour market. My skills just don't fit into the workplace structure at all.

I no longer attended RSE at the time because I had run out of money. At the time I still believed the teachings would work. A friend in RSE told me that she had been to an event where they focused on a candle with mirrors. I decided to focus on my cards using a candle as I found it increasingly difficult to do a lot of C and E due to back problems I had.

I did a few hours a day for about a year and a half. I did this many years before Kenny was ever presented in public. The result was I could see the future readily and it was provable in my own life. The time it took for something I saw to happen was variable. It could be in a day or it could be close to a year. There was no certainty on that.

When I lay down with my blindfold on I could also see images like in a dream. Sometimes they were just an image and sometimes they were a moving picture. I understood that language of the symbols and found it very easy to use this to go shopping. Like most people I would often spend hours looking for something I wanted and was unable to find it.

I would ask questions of what I presumed at the time was "my god." I asked where I could find some object I wanted. developed a system and found the objects I wanted easily after a while. Sometimes my reasoning process interfered and I got the wrong answer. It became a challenge. I wanted proof that I was not just imaging things or it was coincidence so I did this almost every day for about two and a half years. I found CD's, movies clothes and the proof was that I liked them or that they fit when I found them at the location I received.

The ability I had did not last and I can no longer do these things as I used to. I do not know why. Everything I worked hard for at RSE has been taken away from me. It is a disgrace. Everyone goes to education to improve their abilities at whatever they are interested in.

Furthermore all the focus I did never gave me money so I could improve my daily life. The circustances I lived in where already dreadful at the time. What is the point of all of it when you can't even get a normal reasonable life ? It never gave me employment and it never healed my body despite huge hours of focus on the blue body as well.

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Unread post by voidgate » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:48 am

If you look at the above RSE always judges the customer and blames them. I knew a lot of people who put many hours daily into their disciplines and focus and it did not get them anywhere. There is no need to worry for anyone who does not do their disciplines enough because it won't get you anywhere if you do.

It is my observation that people in RSE are used and when they have outlived their usefulness to RSE inc. then they are discarded. Furthermore those who have the greatest ability are soon made a public example of or whatever it takes to make Ms. Knight supreme.

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Just wondering, no more?

Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:36 am

Voidgate

Since leaving RSE, I think RSE and similar I Am/New Age teachings seem to place unnecessary meaning on coincidences that can happen to people whether they are consciously aware or not. These coincidences have happened to me before, during and after RSE, with or without doing the disciplines. I do not ascribe special meaning to them anymore.

JZ has blended these coincidences with her zeroxed I Am/New Age teachings and a few words from the Quantum Physics dictionary to create a self-proclaimed ?unique? school that supposedly teaches its students the art of manifestation, healing, remote view, telekinesis, levitation, invisibility, bilocation, teleportation, immortality etc. The majority of these claims have NOT been achieved or demonstrated, NOT even by JZ herself.

RSE showcases a few students that have a high number of hits with correctly guessing the playing cards, and Kenny who can sometimes correctly guess the Roulette numbers and sometimes move poker chips without touching, so he claims. I bought this marketing hype before when I was ?just wondering? and brainwashed into thinking that these students were remarkable, NOT ?

Henry Sugar, the character from Roald Dahl?s book that was a recommended reading, donated his winnings and established 21 orphanages with his ?remote view? ability. NONE of the above students or JZ has done similar. JZ is still TAKING money from people around the world. Go figure?

If any of JZ?s claims were genuine, at least one of her students or herself could have taken up James Randi?s $1 million paranormal challenge.

RSE is a ?scam? for magical thinkers. JZ also teaches the ART of LIVING in FEAR with all her zeroxed but FALSE doomsday prophecies and conspiracy theories on just about everything imaginable.


JZ/Ramtha seems to produce students that behave like paranoid fruitcakes (organic, of course)?


In conclusion, the following are some typical behaviors of RSE students:

- Staring at the sky with little blinking.

- Walking in a straight line and muttering ?For as long as I can remember, I have always been giving lots of money to JZ. So Be It (with arm movement)!?

- Creating the day by proclaiming ?From the Lord God of my being, this day, I earn lots of money to give to JZ. So Be It (with arm movement)!?

- Walking around blindfolded and making hissing sounds, trying to remember the reason for the blindfolded walk and not to bump into anything dangerous.

- Hyperventilating while blindfolded, to loud music without dancing.

- Staring at a candle flame or playing cards without snoozing or snoring.

- Sculling a full glass of red wine quickly, after making this toast ?To living for 200 years or more so I can continue to give lots of money to JZ. So Be It (with arm movement)!?

- Taking pictures of dust, insects, pollen, mist, rain, smudges etc and trying to communicate with them, IRRATIONALLY thinking that these are interdimensional beings, dead beings or wormholes so as to escape from earth.

- Running away in FEAR from Men in Black, ?social consciousness?, the Catholic church and ex-Ramsters from EMF!!!



Caterpillar is running away from anyone that claims to be channeling some being.

So Be It (with NO arm movement)!

Chuckle??

Caterpillar
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Correction...

Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:26 am

Chuckle ?DM ...

Oops, not Chuckle?

:lol:

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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:10 pm

Chuckle?DM

Chuckling?DM

Oops?DM

are trademarks and service marks of David McCarthy and are used with permission.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Sad Grandfather
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Re: Cards

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:37 am

voidgate wrote: Furthermore all the focus I did never gave me money so I could improve my daily life. The circustances I lived in where already dreadful at the time. What is the point of all of it when you can't even get a normal reasonable life ? It never gave me employment and it never healed my body despite huge hours of focus on the blue body as well.
This is just an observation from an "outsider", but I wonder how much better off you might have been if you had spent all the time wasted on cards, candles and meditation, doing something actually productive. How much better off would you have been if you had invested all the money you gave Judy, or even buried it in the back yard? That is not meant to be critical, but just an observation of what the woman is doing to peoples' lives.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:39 am

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1066975

1990 article from The Seattle Times about the transformation of Yelm due to JZK cult.


David?DM, Voidgate and others from that era would remember this?


Sad Grandfather, unfortunately, we would have been more productive and in a better financial situation without JZ. :sad:

Some business owners in Yelm are wealthier with Ramsters around, for example, the liquor stores!!! JZ/R has trained her students to scull red wine quickly, not sip slowly? :shock:

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Unread post by voidgate » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:45 pm

Sad Grandfather, When most people take up a study they perceive they are getting something of lasting value that benefits their life. In RSE it does not work that way. The corporation owns it all sooner or later. Furthermore if someone tries to use it for any personal gain they usually have a legal case pending or a threat and if they don't submit to Ms. Knight they could be in a lot of trouble. People who are considered adept at RSE practices got into trouble and I believe they went back to Ms. Knight under her terms and conditions.

If I knew prior to RSE what I know today I would never have taken their offer and my marriage would not have disintegrated because of it. I had no marital problems whatsoever. MY life would have been the following :

In my life I would have had work for the last 18 years. I would have had a lot of money and a very nice lifestyle with reasonable neighbours. I reasonable in- laws who lived nearby and worked the family farm. The former family have become most unpleasant some time after I got into it, with just cause, in hindsight.

To sum put instead of giving me something for my money RSE has taken almost everything that brings me joy away.

I would not have ended up in an industrial war zone with corrupt, or incompetent officials everywhere and very cruel abusive neighbours who blame me for their violations like everyone agrees on this way of life. Judith considers violent living enlightenment and if I don't want to live in a merciless city it is all my fault.

I could have been growing food for koalas. I could have been working my sheep dog. I could have been growing tagasaste for drought fodder and re vegetating the environment and doing something useful for the planet rather than living like a down and out welfare recipient. I could have been growing my own food rather than going to the supermarket all the time and throwing all of the ridiculous wrapping into a landfill. The waste is disgusting and I would never choose to live like that. We has no local shops in the neighbourhood at all and I liked it.

For all the money I gave to RSE and all the effort I put in which was enormous RSE gave me NOTHING.

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:46 am

I suspect that within 5 years, my family will also be broke and in financial trouble. My grandchildren will be gone from home by then, and I hope will get away from there and become successful, but I will be very surprised if my daughter and son-in-law are not left to live in poverty, with their retirement gone, unless supported by their children.

It is so easy to see these things from the outside, but obviously not so easy when you are under Judy's spell, as they are now. I have done what I can, to no avail.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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santa claus=halucingenic aminta muscaria/fly agaric

Unread post by arewethereyet » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:30 am

catapiller said " I figured it's the same part of me that wants to believe in Santa Claus.

if you want to believe in sant claus go pick you some fly agaric/aminita muscaria mushroom.

i ate over 100 of these beauties while i was living in the northwest it made some temporary job remodeling the eagles landing casino very exciting, it gave me incredible strength, good spirits, and vivid dreams.

soma/aminita muscaria fruits around cristmas time when the nights are foggy. picking these turned my hands red. in siberia they would throw these mushrooms out to the raindeer to gather them up to pull sleighs, when rudulph ate the mushroom it turned his nose red.
Santa is dressed in red with a white dot on his cap ( this mushroom has white dots on the red cap)
santa/muscaria enters your chimney (throat) and falls to your fireplace (stomach) to give you a present/psyadellic experience. during the trip psychic abilities are enhanced -meaning to know if your naughty or nice

santa clause is a halucingenic experience.
these mushrooms do have toxins but it would take 30 or so caps to kill someone, although it would be far less for a young child, so for god sakes inform your child about the truth of this matter so next time it sees this mushroom next to santa claus on some holliday card doesn't trigger anyones child to eat a bunch of these.

these mushrooms gave me some really cool experiences the air looked like the water on stargate portal. and opened my mind to deceid to move away from the western coastline and volcanic areas.
just if you eat it dont go to the place where everyone is mad (yelm) go to a place where everyone is happy like i did. just a anology from alice in wonderland.

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