Many new Masters of Cards?

Many experiences have happened during these techniques, known as disciplines, at RSE. People have been hurt physically, emotionally, and otherwise. Post your experiences.
Marie
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Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Marie » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:33 pm

My most sincere apologies to freemymind. During moderation of a post on this thread I inadvertently removed the following post. Many thanks to littlewiseone who had a back up copy.
Here is freemymind's post in its original form.

Much love,
Kensho Lynds
(moderator)

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freemymind posted on Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:51 pm

First off, hello to all, this is my first post. I have been stopping by this forum for about a year now occasionally and very intensively the last few weeks.

My girlfriend is at RSE, and has ben going there for 6 years now. This is wher my inside knowledge on some of the things going on at RSE comes from. Before getting to the point of this topic, let me just say that I was very scared when I first got together with my partner, that she would be in a suicide cult. For the past years, as I have talked more about RSE with my partner, I have come to understand this as a non-lethal scam. At least for my partner, as she keeps going to the doctor if she gets sick, and doesn't rely on blue body etc. to do the job.

But to the point of this topic. In the last few months she has been telling me there have been more and more new Master's of Cards, i.e. people who have demonstrated the card-reading on stage. I have looked through this forum (not all of it, there is so much!), but not found anything about this development.

My partner is obsessed by the cards, and often gets frustrated that she can't do it. My questions to you are, if you will:

1. Who has experiences with the cards? Have you ever met someone who has conclusively demonstrated to you they can actually see through those smiley-face cards? (BTW, does it work on a normal deck of cards, and why no jokers?...)
2. Does this new development, meaning the popping up of all the new Master's of Cards, worry you at all?

It seems to me like a desperation act by RSE to advertise all these new "Masters" to get the students hooked.

At the same time, if this is indeed a scam, the more Master's there are, the more people would be in on the scam and the more potential there would be for someone of this circle to come out and tell the truth about how students are manipulated.


I'd really appreciate your feedback on these issues. Sorry moderators if this is posted in the wrong forum, feel free to move it.

Much love,

FMM

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Hello FMM,

To answer your question about the cards I need to provide some back story. My mother and sister have been attending events at the ranch for over 9 nine years, my sister has been involved by books and videos for over 20....They both currently reside in Yelm. I consider the promise of obtaining the ability to "read through cards" as part of the bait that rse uses to hook and keep students. Before I knew much about rse and tactics like these I light heartedly played a game with my dog. I had an old board game called Kreskin's ESP. It had different techniques that were supposed to strengthen your extra sensory perception. It included a deck of cards with both symbols and colors on them. The object was -- can you guess??? -- to try to guess what symbols or color cards your partner was holding....Hmmmm....I wonder if JZ ever played that game back in the day???....Anyway, I digress.....I used to hold out three cards in my hand, turned over so that the dog couldn't "see" them of course...Then told him to pick either the red card, or the card with the arrow on it, or whatever....My highly enlightened dog would pick out the correct card with his mouth from my hand 9 out of 10 times!!!.... and THAT, believe it or not, was without ever having attended an event at the ranch!!!....

I will let you draw your own conclusions from that story..... :lol: :lol:

BTW, has your girlfriend ever elaborated on exactly what benefits one would gain from seeing through cards or hitting a bullseye while blindfolded?? What millions any of the masters have made, any charities they have donated those millions to, any contribution they have made toward the good of whole or helping others in general?
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:42 pm

Hi Marie,

thanks for your answer. First about the deck of cards you write
Marie wrote: Then told him to pick either the red card, or the card with the arrow on it, or whatever...
The cards I am meen to are a normal deck of playing cards, not just some containing symbols. And, apparently, there are 16 or so people who can see through an entire deck consistantly now.
Marie wrote: BTW, has your girlfriend ever elaborated on exactly what benefits one would gain from seeing through cards or hitting a bullseye while blindfolded??
Well, the usual answer is that it is not so much about reading the cards as it is that your ability to do this is a reflection of your abilities of remote viewing or focus in general, basiciallay: "If you can do this, imagen all the other things you can do?"
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:46 pm

freemymind wrote: "If you can do this, imagen all the other things you can do?"
So she means that the cards a just a form of practise to achieve a greater state of mind, is what I mean with this...
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

ex
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Unread post by ex » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:54 pm

in the time i was there i never saw anybody demonstrating powers. i saw clever presentation. i think you should write an admiring letter to rse and ask for dokumented proof. i dont think they can produse it to an outsider. if you send 1000 people to the casino you will have one successtory for the stage. the frustration of your girlfriend sounds familiar. as i heard it they have to do cards several houers a day. in my times there failing got explained by 'beeing not seerious,not guarding your investment: going to school,making not enough time for the dicipliens.there is not much change in this i guess. good luck to you.

ex
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Unread post by ex » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:00 pm

guess what marie they start with 3 cards now.when they do them consitently they go on to more.

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:04 pm

Hi ex,

thanks very much for sharing your comments.
ex wrote: i saw clever presentation.
Thats a good way to put it, for sure!
ex wrote: i think you should write an admiring letter to rse and ask for dokumented proof. i dont think they can produse it to an outsider.
Well they have videos of students doing it online. here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_NxRDgbRZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaAWSS11Cvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETbXD88ZZ0s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khcIznnCqTg


I mean, it seems pretty cool. I dont know, maybe it works, maybe one can do it? Does anyone have an explanation for this? Of course, the cards could be marked in some way. But that would mean that many students are part of the scam. I wonder if someone will come out and tell the truth some day...
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

ex
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Unread post by ex » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:34 pm

coments to the videoes [have to admitt that i dident look them entirely through]. 1st: very edited. 2nd: she is jzs emloye has more to winn in her social field with an demonstration. exposing the scam is bitting the hand who feeds her.3rd: looks like he has to find the markings on the backside. of course i am not a prof. gambler so i am not qualified to judge. i also see a nice income for selling carddecks,headlights,just like the blue pens for the bluebodywork. pyramidscams, gambling, construction of undergrounds are last but least incomesources to finance an expencive hobby: staying current at rse.

Marie
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Unread post by Marie » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:39 pm

FMM,

I think you are missing my point..... ;-)

Three cards, 16 cards, 32 cards, cards with symbols, a real playing deck, it makes no difference ....My point is exactly what ex said above -- anyone -- my dog included, and that was a real story!! -- can pick or see through the right card, by chance........anyone can hit a bullseye blindfolded by chance sooner or later.....it's hype and spin on JZ's part to promote the school so she gets more money for her classes and books and videos....she needs to keep that carrot out there!!.....the only person making any money off of this is JZ. There are threads on this board about students lying and saying they got their cards because they were told to or felt pressure to do so...people in the tank who were helped through doors shut to others in order be able to say they made it to the middle....and on, and on....

The card trick is a parlor game played by JZ that has no significance toward anyone's "abilities".. I understand the hype that is used is that it is significant as it relates to what ones potential might be, but I have NEVER heard of ANY of the supposed masters of cards reaching the end of the rainbow! have you?

I think intuition comes from the same place that most of our other human traits come from, and that is we needed it to survive when we were roaming the earth as early homosapiens, just like animals need it today to communicate and survive. Some have it more than others just like some can sing better than others, some are genius mathematicians, writers, athletes, etc. It's something you're born with, the luck of the gene pool.... You can probably improve upon it with lots of practice but no on is going to be the next "American Idol" without the vocal cords.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:50 pm

Thanks for elaborating, Marie.

I still wonder, though:
Marie wrote: My point is exactly what ex said above -- anyone -- my dog included, and that was a real story!! -- can pick or see through the right card, by chance........
Thats what I think generally, too, but my understanding is that a "Master" of cards has to demonstrate that they cannot hit only a few cards right, but the entire deck.
I just wonder if this is for real, and if not, what trick is used to decieve us? Do you have any first-hand experience with this, or do you have a reliable source that knows how this is done?

Thanks so much for helping out!
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:00 pm

Thanks for your response, Ex.

In response to your comments:
ex wrote:coments to the videoes [have to admitt that i dident look them entirely through]. 1st: very edited.
Well, looking at this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khcIznnCqTg

and the others, really, once they start turning the cards it is not edited at all. In this particular video there is a cut after the cards being shuffled. But my girlfriend has seen 3 people live on stage and told me the cards are shuffled in plain view and then the student starts to demonstrate right away.

Now, I really do trust my girlfriend that she is not lying, we have a very deep connetion and she is always straitforward about what goes on at RSE, and tells me even wierd things that happen there, she has no hesitation. And there are different decks of cards beeing used, so I just wonder how exactly they cheat, if they do...
ex wrote: i also see a nice income for selling carddecks,headlights,just like the blue pens for the bluebodywork. pyramidscams, gambling, construction of undergrounds are last but least incomesources to finance an expencive hobby: staying current at rse.
I definately agree with you here... if nothing else JZK is a very smart businessperson and knows how to make money.
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

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Robair
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Hello

Unread post by Robair » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:01 am

Hello freemymind
Welcome
Here is my take
Until they take James Randi million dollars chalenge it do not mean much to me.
Oldone
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

ex
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Unread post by ex » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:24 am

i put the no to the videos the 3rd coment is for this two movies. he wiggels the cards back and forth as to find somthing on the back.

Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:50 am

Hello All,

Yes, one can train the brain to bring up an image on the back of a playing card. I was really surprised when it appeared but there is no doubt that it did appear...and it was correct. That was the first time doing it; after just 20 minutes of staring at a card.

When I was in RSE we did a lot of cards and roulette. I did practice cards every day for an hour or so for a period of three months. By the end of that time I was accurate around 50% of the time with the 20 cards that I was working with. But I gave it and the other 'disciplines' up when I realized that doing them was changing me in a way I didn't like. What I had become and how I had been thinking about myself in relation to others bothered me on a very deep level.

Here's the thing that kept knocking around in my mind with respect to cards and other RSE 'disciplines'. The time spent practicing kept me from engaging much else. Doing disciplines seemed to have become an obsession/addiction that took up all of my free time. I even made time to do that instead of socializing (The Ramtha character said that it should be that way).

When I finally contemplated what the attraction to spending hours of each day doing disciplines was, it was difficult to find it. All I could find was an ego that was getting more caught up in its self importance the more I practiced and had successes. It kept me from loving my friends, my family, and even relating on a basic level to any one else. I thought of myself as different in a special sort of way and that served to separate me from most other people :oops: :roll:.

Now that's ignorance, not enlightenment in my world so I stopped all the discipline practice and went back to a form of quiet meditation (pre-RSE). Within a few weeks I found my way here, full of doubts about just about everything I had ever accepted as true regarding enlightenment and spirituality. Within a couple of months I realized that I had been taken for a nasty ride.

I did and still do know that for me, seeing through cards or being able to concentrate on something long enough to attain a desired result, has nothing to do with love, compassion or enlightenment. Its just concentration; the motivation for doing it seems to be what is important. For me, doing things as promoted at RSE seemed to drive me away from the very reasons I had first become interested in the school. Spiritual development was clearly absent despite my dedication and faith to what was being promoted as the path to it at RSE.

Much love, unbound

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:25 am

Freemymind, as a long-time student and having left recently, I have also asked the same questions.

Prior to RSE, I already had some ESP experiences (or just coincidences) that I did not think much of. From the numerous ?achievements? of the disciplines at RSE events, it does ?appear? that many students have ESP abilities as heavily touted by JZ.

With the Henry Sugar discipline (smiley face cards), I was able to correctly ?see? (as a shadow) the numbers and suits, about three out of ten cards at events without practicing at home. So can many others and some can ?see? through the whole deck. The students I have witnessed did not seem to be cheating. You could try the discipline and surprise yourself.

Good question as to why no jokers. May be it is harder to ?see?. It was suggested that we use similar plain playing cards in order to ?see? the numbers and suits clearer. Heavily patterned playing cards were not recommended. So much for ESP ability! It should work under any conditions. James Randi would probably use heavily patterned playing cards as a test.

In 2006, Dean Radin, a researcher in parapsychology from the Institute of Noetic Sciences was studying Kenny Thompson (first Master of Cards) and Debbie Christie (second Master of Cards). At an event in 2006, Debbie informed us that they had to practice at home in order to produce the results required under test conditions with Dean. I haven?t heard more on the outcome of the study. It was supposed to be confidential and Dean was to apply for grant money for this study.

The study was mentioned in ?Ask dr Greg? on Nov 16, 2006 (halfway):

?update on Dr. Dean Radin's scientific research on RSE students?

http://www.beyondtheordinary.net/gregsimmons.shtml


A few side notes:

Dean Radin has worked with Masaru Emoto (the ?water? guy in What The Bleep) who has been debunked by proper scientists. Masaru did not take up James Randi?s $1 million invitation though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto


JZK has made a tax-deductible donation to Dean Radin?s Institute of Noetic Sciences.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/contributions.html

(Hey JZK, how about donating to struggling RSE students whose lives you have wrecked? Charity begins at home..)


Having the ?ability? to remote view the playing cards, Roulette numbers or horse races (all promoted at RSE) does NOT mean one can also manifest at will, heal instantly, levitate, bilocate, teleport, be invisible or be immortal which RSE claims to teach. (Reference RSE uses is Baird Spalding?s Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East which appears to be FICTIONAL!)

JZ/R has NOT demonstrated the above claims. The teachers have to report to JZ on the students? progress at events as she cannot remote view.

Without intending to be disrespectful but as an example, Kenny Thompson (Master of Cards, Roulette and Poker chips) asked for help in healing his stepfather here:

Posted on Oct 25, 2009 at MastersConnection:

Master of Cards Kenny Thompson is requesting your assistance in focusing healing energies on his stepfather Ralph, a man he calls "the sweetest man in the world" who has been diagnosed with lung cancer. The family has requested the medical team hold off chemo for a few days to allow Ralph's healing to occur. Kenny says, "See him done with this."

http://www.mastersconnection.com/forum2 ... hp?id=1498


For many students, their anecdotal ESP experiences can be a hook for believing in JZ/Scamtha, as intended by her. I do not ascribe special meaning to these random coincidences anymore. Irrespective of these coincidences, RSE students still have to function like other humans in the world. I was idealistic and na?ve when I joined RSE, and bought JZ?s zeroxed stories.


P.S. Marie, there could be a money making opportunity with your dog!

Here is some inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vD3c0xzwI

By the way, there are RSE students that make a living out of communicating with animals such as horses, dogs and cats.

Caterpillar
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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:53 am

Nay...

Woof...

Meow...

:shock:

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Dove
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Unread post by Dove » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:04 am

Hello freemymind,

Just as a side note I remember at my beginners retreat sitting next to a woman (beginner too) who read through almost a whole pack of cards and it was her first attempt. Yes, we human beings can do extraordinary things at times, and I have personally met some of the ?Master of Cards? and they seem very sincere.

However as Caterpillar stated above, this discipline is the ?Henry Sugar? discipline as described in Ronald Dahl?s book, and taught (hi-jacked) at RSE. It is (to my knowledge) the only discipline that isn?t trademarked, it couldn?t be because the ?Henry Sugar? story is so well known ? isn?t it interesting that it appears to be the only discipline some students are succeeding at. RSE appears to be taking credit for the success of students performing a discipline that originates from another source.

Not being a ?Master of the Cards? myself, I could go out & teach others how to do it, & if they had success I too could take the credit for their success ? that?s basically what JZ Knight is doing. And you will never see JZR ever perform a discipline.

I also agree strongly with Unbound. Doing hours of disciplines every day only disconnected me from my loved ones. My life has been so much more joyous since I exited RSE.

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:15 pm

Thank you to all who have replied, this has really helped me a lot.

The cards thing is really interesting. I wonder though, if that really is possible (I have only seen videos of people who "did" it), then I guess it definitely would be fair to say that there is more "potential" in us, dont you think so? Of course, there would need to be proof of the "next steps". Evidently self-healing etc. doesnt seem to work much better than the usual placebo effect, and I haven't heard of anyone bilocating.

Caterpillar, Unbound, Dove: do you think these "next steps" are possible at all, or is card reading, as far as humans can make it?

From what I understand so far reading through these forums is that the biggest issue outsiders or former RSE students have with the school is the genuineness of JZ chanelling Ramtha and some of the messages (end of the world, etc). Would that be a fair assessment?

I find that in my case, my partner is not panicking about 2012 etc, although she is making sure to learn certain skills that would prove useful in a collapse of civilization type scenario, such as planting vegetables, sewing clothes etc. Quite frankly, that I find pretty cool, and I am all for self-sufficiency. Even if I do not believe the end is near, it still is cool to know some of this stuff, even for pure health reasons (home-grown veggies much better than costco veggies...)

I wonder if sometime soon there will be sufficient evidence for mainstream science supporting card reading. That should spark an interesting debate in the public.

On a final question, can anyone point me to a resource that tell the story of the "original" card readers.

Thanks so much!

Much love,

FFM
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:43 pm

Hello Freemymind,

Link to the Stories containing Henry Sugar.
http://www.roalddahlfans.com/shortstories/wond.php

Regarding cards and the 'next steps', it seems that what ever becomes important to someone can be achieved on some level. That 'level' may be one of delusional perception, hallucinated or for some it may even be actual. RSE does not encourage its followers to make the distinction but rather insists that its followers accept any possibility they desire as actualized through concentrating (focusing) on it alone. Conversely, there is an individualized, closely guided and monitored process of meditation techniques available to aspirants through some religions. Guidance is provided by those who have extensive experience with a particular practice to ensure that the aspirant does not become delusional or loose their mental stability through engaging in such practices.

One of the 'teachings' in RSE is that if you can think of something, or if anyone else has ever thought of it, then its potential exists in the quantum field; and from there it can be manifested simply by concentrating on it as being so. That is the basis of RSE's twisted take on quantum physics and quantum mechanics. At RSE there is little, if any individual guidance with respect to what an individual may be experiencing. Instead, experiences both 'wonderful' and horrific are encouraged as a means to attain one's god-hood and the supposed powers that come with it. Thus many followers of RSE and similar New-age philosophies may dedicate themselves to attaining something which may very well be impossible for the complete and fully functional sane mind of a human being.

Having said that, defining just what is humanly possible and what is not, does not seem to have an absolute solution.

A case of photographic memory.
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006 ... ing-p1.php

Separating trickery from the real thing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLLDE3FZyo

There are apparently some documented cases of outstanding things with respect to the human mind's capabilities; but there seems to be a common denominator in most of these cases. Such 'actual abilities' seem to either be innate and more pronounced in certain individuals, or to have come about spontaneously. In some cases these abilities apparently come about as a side effect of training the mind in certain forms of concentration (meditation), but these are seldom documented; instead they remain within the circles of certain societies and religions. They are not openly placed in the public forum for a variety of reasons. That seems to be where we enter the worlds where imagination, deception and even faith may be intentionally employed to influence the mind and its abilities; for either virtuous or other purposes.

Of the more publicly documented cases, very seldom do those with actualized heightened abilities (usually in an awareness like sight), claim to have created the ability from their own side through an intent to do so. This fact alone should demonstrate that RSE's promotion of intense concentration as a means to attain super-human abilities is questionable at best, and may even be damaging to a person's mental stability.


QUOTE: "From what I understand so far reading through these forums is that the biggest issue outsiders or former RSE students have with the school is the genuineness of JZ chanelling Ramtha and some of the messages (end of the world, etc). Would that be a fair assessment?"

The biggest issue that I have with RSE is that people are being intentionally misled into a world of delusion, apparently so that they can be robbed of their financial security as well as their sense of spirituality, their mental balance and their ability to think clearly. They are encouraged to abandon their social support network (family and friends), and through that alone they are isolated and thus groomed for further abuse and manipulation; all for the financial gain of RSE.

The messages (2012 etc) that are promoted through RSE seem to be just the means to that end. Promotion of fear, insecurity and self loathing are universal tactics employed by many groups to acheive mind control and behaviour modification . RSE uses these as well as others.
For example, RSE openly claims that it is high time that people recognize that they are 'gods' and that anything less than that is, well, a sure ticket to suffering a mundane life which ultimately ends at the grave. A common, human life is NEVER celebrated at RSE. Even the term "mundane" has a derogatory definition at RSE because of the mind-set that is prommoted there. Followers are taught that a mundane human life is not worth living. How cruel is that form of abuse?
These methods of mind control are what I find most objectionable with respect to RSE, not the topic matter of the 'messages' themselves. It is the intent behind the message that is damaging and as another EMF member has perfectly stated, it is abuse and it is spiritual rape.

Hope that this helps.

Much love, unbound

freemymind
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Unread post by freemymind » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:35 pm

unbound,

thank you so much for your effort and thoughtful comments. Let me say it is a great relief to be welcomed with so much help and advice.

The point you make about RSE encouraging students to isolate themselves from their friends / family is very interesting, because I do not experience that at all with my partner. While she is definitely on the "we are all Gods" bandwagon, and advocates independence and self-sufficiency, she is equally interested to live out her Godliness in our, regular, society, and has repeatedly stated that she does not expect me to go to RSE myself.

And the thing is, I agree with the statement that we are all responsible for our own actions, so she is responsible for going to RSE, whatever negatives or positives she gains form that experience. All I can say is that I met her when she was already in the school and I have always found her to be loving and wonderful to all those around her. So even though I was often scared about her going to retreats and about what she might do in the future, I figured there is nothing really I can do except respect her views and opinions as she does mine.

My question to all of you is, what is your opinion on this? I have often considered going to a beginner's retreat just to see it for myself. From the videos of Ramtha I have seen I am not very convinced of the chanelling, for example, neither has my partner been sucessful at any discipline at a statistically significant rate. Neither am I a fan of doomsday scenarios, even if they are packaged in a "change of conciousness" setting. But I acknowledge that seeing live and in person is different from videos and books.

Maybe if she sees that I am not affected by the teachings there and chose not to engage in any disciplines that life is great without RSE too. Mind you, I do think creating your day, for example, is a great thing (except maybe the zombie-like attitude you are in walking around the park); it is a proven psychological technique that allows us to focus on attaining goals and being more successful at, for example, work or school.

Another question: does anyone know other current RSE students who are generally nice people, and active and respected participants in society? (please dont say Selma Hayek) People who, apart from "endearing" RSE quirks, are "normal" to outsiders?

Anyway, I really do appreciate your time, it has been helping me a lot.

Love
FFM

Moderator comment: Please reply to the request for opinions regarding attending RSE to:
General Chit Chat & Social Forum ? Considering going to RSE...
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... php?t=1058
Thank you.
The Moderator Team
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake"
-Jeannette Rankin

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Robair
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Unread post by Robair » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:53 pm

Hello Freemymind

Thank you Unbound for beautiful and very well written respond to FreeMM questions and requests.You are awesome.My post will look pretty simplistic in comparasion more like a Red neck point of view, I was not going to post it but what the heck might as well.
My self use to think that the Human Mind have the potential to do amazing things,but now have put all of this on a shelve to be re-visited sometime in the future.
The reading of the cards by RSE students is very interesting,after watching some of the Videos ,I am a bit skeptic, the first time I saw Debbie do it she did not use that powerful light that they are all using now, and one of them moving the deck like he is looking for something the light will accent,I said to my self what next an Ex-ray machine. :roll:
That is why I mention the million dollar challenge by James Randi, (see unbound link in her ost) Scamtha and everyone else in the school are aware of this challenge and are all staying away from it,they also know that after 25 years of no one been able to proved any of their Claimed including Uri Geller the spoon binder from Germany (surely you should know about him) James have decided that was enough and will close the project in 2010.I am pretty sure that the Snake Oil Salesman Scam Artist JZ is going to take that to her advantage and say something like,he closed it because he knew that my students could prove what the are doing is real.You would think that anyone that can do what they claim they can do would take the million dollars Challenge and run away with the million.
About getting ready for TDTC, or Catastrophic scenario,even before we when to Scamtha my wife who was raised on a farm always had food in storage for all eventuality,Now that we live in Vegas and all food is trucked in,that need is event bigger,we do have a garden and food in storage,like you we also think it is kool to have.
The purpose of our site is to help students and family to recover from this Farce of a teaching Scamtha School of un enlightens
Being all ex-Ramsters we know now that this so call enlighten entity do not exist and never did and we all have payed a very big price to learn it.What ever the new Hook is or will be to keep them coming so far none of them have really worked.Even though I have the tendency to think along the line of a Master Never tell theory,meaning that the one who can do it do not publicized it, again for me to me revisited later in life.
Understanding that our brain is an amazing piece of equipment and have potential to do the unthinkable.I also know that Oil Salesman,and Scam Artist like her will use it to Scam Money, life saving, heath, from Honest people that are in search of the secret of life or enlightenment if you will by using Big Hooks like this one.
it has been over 20 years now that Scamtha have started the so call school,when he promised us that he would teach us to be enlighten entity in 7 years,so far no one in the school is even close to be One ,and if ever this card reading prove to be right that would not change the facts that this Farce of a teaching (like Jeff said) is a total Scam.. and Ramtha do not existed never did,that JZ is getting richer most Ramsters are getting poorer , an all are un enlighten.
You asked if we know nice people in the school,very interesting question,I know when they are confronted about the teaching being a Scam most of them will drop you of their life,I will find out soon as I am planning to reveal my position about the school to some of my current ramster friends that are very strong in the school,one of them already dropped me from his list just by me questioning some of it and his way of thinking about conspiracy theory and 2012.
About your GF she seem to be pretty well center about all of this,I see nothing wrong in one using positive thinking to make life better I am just against Scamers like JZR.
What ever you see or don't see for what this is all about, we here see it exactly for the SCAM that it is
.I would like to let you know that I did enjoy all of your posts so far and looking forward to read more about what you have to say,you really come across,very well center,well educated,and very well written,I have no doubt by the way you write that you will figured it out.
Thank you again and please excuse my simplistic way of expressing my self in making my point.

here something funny From Caterpillar post in Humor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6ZhUW38w

Oldone
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

ex
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Unread post by ex » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:47 am

after the twist and turns this topic took i allready hear jzr from stage "even my ennemies admitted that the extraordinary happens in my audience" most snakeoilsellers work with a frontrow of believers.the scamed come back to look what they missed to make it finaly work for themself or stay away. it took me nearly two years to figuer out there is nothing and nobody to show the extraordinary to me at rse. the fantastics get pampered on stage or become teachers or jzs best friends untill they fall out of her grace and might thretten her position. jzrs relationshipp advice flikers over all possible stands. whatever suits her or the situation she is in will be ramthas true etearnel teaching up to now. all the disscrepancies r only facets of his greater goodknowledge. we might be all goods but jzr made shure to rubb allways in that she is the better and greater one. every cycle in this school can only reacure through the shroud of secrecy and the uncertency that there might be something.

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Unread post by ex » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:22 am

[quote]From what I understand so far reading through these forums is that the biggest issue outsiders or former RSE students have with the school is the genuineness of JZ chanelling Ramtha and some of the messages (end of the world, etc). Would that be a fair assessment[/quote] my issue is that rse is a destructive cult. jzrs ruthless exploiting of thousend of dollars for her extravacant livestyle [renting yachts in the meditaranien for 1/4 of a million during the time she sheeds krokodiletears how her school goes financely down or fly dozenz of her hollywood friends to boston harbour for a italian style dinner during she gives days to come teachings at the school who do you think paid for her antics?]. on the other hand you might be right it boils down to this two arguments pro and con of both . the issue for me is that rse is a scam and its services r qouestionable. and there r 6000 customers who left.

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:00 am

Hello all

Whilst a student at RSE, my husband mentioned Roald Dahl?s Henry Sugar story to a friend who is a retired school teacher. Coincidentally, his friend is a fan of Roald Dahl. About 25 years ago, he taught 10 year old kids and read the Henry Sugar story in class. The kids loved the story, and tried the candle and card focus in class and were able to remote view the suits and numbers correctly as well. The full details weren?t discussed but remote viewing playing cards is NOT unique to RSE?s ?not so remarkable? students after all.

The above needs to be investigated more thoroughly as to whether it is ESP or just coincidence and anyone can do it. The ability to remote view playing cards does not mean one can remote view everything else in one?s life or is a ?super? being.

As a side note, here are some comments from Professor Richard Wiseman, a psychologist who studies deception, luck and the paranormal. He is also a professional magician.

I wonder why JZK did not choose ?real? scientists like Professor Richard Wiseman and his colleagues to ?test? her? :roll:


Quote:

TESTING PSYCHICS

Investigating macro-PK in India
Professor Erlendur Haraldsson (University of Iceland) and Prof Wiseman travelled to India to investigate religious leaders claiming to materialise objects in their bare hands. They observed and filmed various materialisations under informal conditions, but none of the religious leaders managed to produce phenomena under controlled conditions.

http://www.richardwiseman.com/research/psychics.html


Quote:

PARAPSYCHOLOGY

Although Prof Richard Wiseman does not think that the results of laboratory-based studies into psychic ability provide convincing evidence of such abilities, he does believe that they do justify further work in this area. For this reason he has carried out various projects assessing laboratory-based evidence for extrasensory perception (ESP).

In 1997, Prof Wiseman and Dr Julie Milton (then University of Edinburgh) co-authored Guidelines for Extrasensory Perception Research ? a manual that outlines how to avoid the methodological and statistical pitfalls that can occur during ESP experiments. In 2005, Prof Wiseman and Dr Caroline Watt (University of Edinburgh) co-edited Parapsychology - a large collection of key papers from the field produced as part of The International Library of Psychology.

Remote Viewing
In the late 1990?s, the CIA issued an overview of twenty years of US government sponsored research into ?remote viewing?. Dr Milton and Prof Wiseman carried out a detailed critique of the studies described in this report, arguing that they contained serious methodological problems.

The Ganzfeld debate
In 1994, psychologist Daryl Bem and parapsychologist Charles Honorton carried out a meta-analytic survey of a set of ESP ?Ganzfeld? experiments (a type of ESP study employing a mild form of sensory isolation), arguing that the database constituted evidence for psychic functioning. In 1999, Dr Julie Milton (then Edinburgh University) and Prof Wiseman published a follow-up paper, presenting a meta-analysis of Ganzfeld studies conducted between 1987 & 1997, and arguing that this subsequent research had failed to replicate the initial effect. This paper produced a large amount of controversy within parapsychology, culminating in a special issue of the Journal of Parapsychology.

The remote detection of staring
Some parapsychologists have conducted psychophysiological studies in which participants seem able to psychically detect an unseen gaze. In 1995 and 1998 Prof Wiseman carried out joint studies in collaboration with Dr Marilyn Schlitz (Institute of Noetic Sciences), a parapsychologist who had carried out many of the most successful staring studies. The studies revealed evidence of an ?experimenter effect?, with the sessions carried out by Prof Wiseman obtaining quite different results from those conducted by Dr Schlitz. A third joint study, reported in 2005, has failed to replicate this experimenter effect.


Mind Machines

Mind Machines are interactive multimedia kiosks that present the public with an opportunity to participate in various psychological experiments.

The first Mind Machine was designed by Prof Wiseman and Dr Emma Greening (then University of Hertfordshire), and involved asking the public to try to psychically predict the outcome of a random coin toss. This kiosk collected over a quarter of a million datapoints during a year-long tour of Britain's largest shopping centres and science festivals. The findings did not reveal any evidence to support the existence of extrasensory perception.

A second Mind Machine, created by Prof Wiseman in collaboration with Dr Adrian Owen and Dr Daniel Bor (MRC CBU, Cambridge), tested the public?s short-term spatial memory and was commissioned by the British Association for the Advancement of Science as part of their ?Creating Sparks? Festival of Science. The kiosk collected several thousand datapoints whilst in the Wellcome Wing of the London Science Museum, and the results of the study were published in the academic journal, Neuron.

http://www.richardwiseman.com/research/ ... ology.html


James Randi can still keep the $1 million, it seems...

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Unread post by G2G » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:28 am

I've been hearing, too, there are more "masters of the cards." I don't understand what this has to do with jzrk/ramtha, since it would appear to be an ability we all have and can hone into. While I was at RSE, there were many who could see through the cards, not all, not all the time, but enough. One of my partners and I were using bicycle cards instead of the smiley-faced cards, and we decided to try and see through a pile of about ten cards at a time, instead of following the "teacher's" every word and instruction. I'd get images and write down immediately what I saw. We were getting many of them correct. Of course, we were in deep focus, enhanced by trance music. Of course, this has nothing to do with a 35,000 yr. old warrior and is Dahl's teaching. So that's it now at RSE? Focus on the cards, go to a casino, and try and make some money?
That's pretty sad, and you don't need to pay thousands of dollars to learn it. You only have to practice it. Kenny would spend twelve hours a DAY focusing on the cards. Debbie described how she did it, too, getting comfortable in her favorite chair. I do not believe the cards are marked. I was in audience where a deck of cards was handed off and shuffled and examined right in front of my own eyes. However, simply because some might have this ability or can fine-tune it doesn't interpret into "ramtha is a god!" ;-) ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by ex » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:34 am

cardtricks allways puzzel the observer. cheats r set up that you cant look trough them. i agree also that geting a big shott pokerplayer or gambler wouldent be my intensive to study the great work. i dont wanna question your integrety i just wanna point out my thoughts about this. also the probabilety changes imensly if you read 1out of 10 or 1out of54. i heard jzr selling finding the moneycards [on the field]as a prof of miracle. so if you find your card 1 in 600. the ods that 600 people find one of the cards are just much more probable. it just isent the same. but the audience just nods to it.

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:29 pm

I am the visiting heretic, whose only interest here is that most of my living family are now involved in Judy's scam and are contributing to her welfare.

As to seeing through the cards, maybe there are people with ESP, though I do not believe such a thing exists. If one person goes through a deck of cards, the odds are 1 in 52 that they would guess the first card. Since they now know the first card, the odds on the second card are 1 in 51, whether they got the first card right, or not. With a photographic memory, the last card would be 100% certain. That they could guess 10 cards could be a function of chance plus memory. That they could guess 20 cards would obviously happen, on occasion. If they had been belittled and ostracised, when they got none, then getting 20 would indeed be a big deal, and no doubt they would want to brag to all their friends about their "abilities", while the multiple times they got none would be forgotten.

That said, I was shown many years ago how to shave the edges of a deck of cards so I could recognize every card, by suit and rank, while my friends would study the cards intently and not be able to pick out my markings. Fortunately, I had principles enough not to use my shaved deck when playing poker with my friends, so managed to keep most of the friends. All hucksters use shills, and I'm sure Judy is no different.

I agree that if they want the skeptics, such as myself, to believe, then take the million dollar challenge. In fact, I'd say anyone who says they can read the backs of cards, even 20% of the time and hasn't already made millions, and been banned from most of the casinos, would be a liar, or have no interest in money or wealth!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:32 pm

Since we don't have the edit feature, please note that, in the above post, "my family is NOT involved" should read "NOW involved".
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:59 am

Hi Sad Grandpa,

Yes the shaving trick is very hard to detect especially because no one is actually looking for those types of markings.

The way the people manipulate the deck in the video sure looks like they are using the light in some way. best would be if they just never held the deck! that usually stops it in its tracks.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:54 am

All hucksters use shills, and I'm sure Judy is no different.
Bingo..
Most RSE insiders are "shills", when they eventually and inevitably fall out of favor with the queen of shill,
they are paid to keep silent.
for those that do not know what a shill does.....
A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists. The term plant is also used.

Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions[1] because of the frequently fraudulent and damaging character of their actions. However, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz", the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience", is a type of legal shill.

"Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, possibly because their income is tied to its prosperity.
Shill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:30 am

Another type of shill was used by carney operators to hype their fixed games. As a teenager, I would go to carnivals and watch the shill, when things slowed. He would go up to play the game, and since the wheel was controlled by the foot pedal under the table, the shill would start winning and making a lot of noise to attract a crowd. When the crowd gathered, the shill would show off all his "winnings" and leave all the suckers to continue playing (and losing}. They would also let a sucker win a couple of times to get them to raise the stakes, then clean them out.

My daughter gave us a phone call for Thanksgiving. She said they were buying gold coins to hedge against inflation, Since the economy is in the tank and trillions in unbacked currency and debt is being dumped into the system, I told her it sounded like a good idea. Later I started wondering if Judy is selling gold coins. That would be another example of taking a good idea and then saying, "Have I got a deal for you!"

Anyone heard of a gold coin scam starting?
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by ex » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:30 pm

she doesent have to. one of her clever students will do the trading earn on it and bring the winnings straight back to her buing his enlightment.

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Unread post by ex » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:47 am

thanks for putting the right math on reading the cards.the other story was about the field were you put your cards up, with a symbol of your choise, at the fence. you r blindfolded and hyperventilate. through focus you r suposed to find your card among the ones from other people. on a blue college event jzr put cards with money up. all people. whoever found it could claim it. of course they got found.jzr claimed that this was proof how focus works and everybody is after money instead of buying enlightment from her.

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Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:31 am

ex wrote:thanks for putting the right math on reading the cards.the other story was about the field were you put your cards up, with a symbol of your choise, at the fence. you r blindfolded and hyperventilate. through focus you r suposed to find your card among the ones from other people. on a blue college event jzr put cards with money up. all people. whoever found it could claim it. of course they got found.jzr claimed that this was proof how focus works and everybody is after money instead of buying enlightment from her.
Yes, I had heard of finding your card on the fence while blindfolded. I'm not sure how many people participate, but if say 100 people do cards and put them on the fence, the odds are that one of the participants will find their card, while 2 or 3 is well within statistical probability. If only one person find their card, they will, no doubt, be overjoyed and will scream, "Oh my God, I found it!" All attention will be directed to them, while the ones who didn't find theirs will feel like failures and just quietly vow to do better next time. Of course there will be times when no one finds their card but, of course, that is their own fault and they are not doing it correctly.

If they ever have 30 or 40 out of 100 find their card, even I might be impressed, but I'd consider 10 or less, occasionally, as just being within statistical probability.

Now if Judy could sort of "lead" participants to their cards (as I hear she has done in the maze), then the number of winners would be increased.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:40 am

Hello everyone

Re: Finding one?s card on the fence blindfolded

I think the above is overrated by JZ/R and anyone (possibly your pets as well) can do it ?without cheating?. The more cards one has on the fence and the more times one goes can increase the chances. Several years ago, I was at a mini event where we got permission to practice finding our cards in the field in our spare time. Students that had the extra sessions found more cards. One student (adult) found more than a dozen and a half cards. I found the most cards in that event as well. Finding cards on the fence while blindfolded is not a big deal, and it does not mean you create your reality nor have ESP as claimed by JZ/R. The RED FLAG is that many students do NOT ?manifest? the dreams on their cards, contrary to JZ/R?s teachings and claims.


Re: Shills from RSE

I wonder if John M. Wright is a shill from RSE that reviewed 2 RSE products here.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-rev ... WWJYU44J1B

He promotes RSE?s pseudoscience and their recommended pseudoscientific readings.


His other name, Mike Wright is revealed here.

http://www.amazon.com/Mike-Wright/wishl ... h_all_itms


Mike Wright is one of Ramtha?s appointed teachers.

http://www.ramtha.com/teachers/mike_wright.asp



Re: Playing cards

This is not intended to be an ad but JZ now sells ?Ramtha? playing cards so no more smiley face cards. More $$$ for JZK Inc.

http://store.ramtha.com/Store/item/RCARD



Re: Buying Gold and Silver

Sad Grandfather,

JZ/R has been recommending hoarding gold and silver for years (possibly since 1987). Ramtha?s predictions for the prices of gold and silver over the years have been INACCURATE! No surprises there?

One can actually purchase Ramtha?s gold and silver medallions here. Another $$$ making opportunity for all involved with the Ramtha deception. (Again, this is not intended to be an ad.)

http://www.goldwisdompro.com/aboutus.html

From my research, this company seems to have been set up by RSE students that cannot spell ?Wisdom, not Wisdow?.


An interesting side note here about the murder of a Ramster for his gold in 1992. Imaginary Ramtha did not reveal who the killers were as JZ paid for any information on the killers. :shock:

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=171

Copied from above:

Joe Sumrall was a tall, handsome, congenial man who moved to Yelm in the mid-80s to be near the outrageousness of Ramtha. He left behind the California rat race and a lucrative career as a graphic designer. Free of the strictures of social consciousness, he was able to pursue a playful passion for cartooning in Yelm. He published a popular book of cartoons in 1988 and syndicated his work through numerous New Age publications, including Common Ground (1989-90). His cartoons were known for their superb draftsmanship and playful satire of New Age eccentricities.

In January 1992, Sumrall attended an event at the Ranch. During a lunch break he drove home to eat. He was later found dead at his house, having been beaten and strangled to death by an unknown assailant. Disgruntled former students suspected foul play by elements at the Ranch, some even accusing J.Z. of settling a score against Sumrall for satirizing her in some of his cartoons. But according to those close to the investigation, police do not think the killers were in any way related to the Ranch or anyone in the Ramtha community. Police believe there were two perpetrators who probably knew that Sumrall had, like many in the Ramtha community, buried gold on his property, and that the killers severely beat an uncooperative Sumrall into revealing the location of his buried loot, after which he was eliminated as a possible witness. J.Z. was so upset about the murder, she proclaimed a $25,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of those responsible.

It is ironic, however, that J.Z.'s gesture, though well intended, trails a tragedy in part catalyzed by Ramtha's advice to avoid banks and bury valuables, such as gold, on one's property. Not only did many followers relinquish financial solvency when they followed this reckless advice, but for his parley at sovereignty, Sumrall lost his life.

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slight of hand brainswashing

Unread post by joe sz » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:01 am

like magic most brainwashing techniques operate through misdirection.
Eg, in boot camps that militaries set up world-wide for new recruits, the apparent reason for the boot camp is for training and fitness as well as instruction in combat, etc. The underlying effect and purpose of all that pressure is to get new recruits to obey commands and act even in the face of death--to obey even if they are afraid to obey--FOR A HIGHER CAUSE.

Finding cards blindfolded on a fence is ridiculously ludicrous as the skill if it exists at all is inapplicable anywhere else or with anything else. There is no evidence of a "third eye" or 6th sense that develops all of a sudden with a few years of practice. The real purpose of the ritual is to get the recruit to do it, to obey, to trust that there is a higher cause like enlghtenment or ascension into heaven. This translates into trying any number of other stupid things like crawling thru underground tubes or sitting outside all night to experience miracles. If the cult can get you to do that stuff, then getting money out of your pocket and recruiting others to pay money to play is not so hard.

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Unread post by littlewiseone » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:14 am

Ha! Joe, good point!
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by freemysoul » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:33 am

I have attended RSE and been current off and on for the last 15 years. I have experienced every discipline the school has taught, and had success at fieldwork, archery, the tank, etc., etc., and I know exactly how people are becoming 'masters' of the cards, as I was one too, yet my conscience wouldn't allow me to continue the charade that the rest of these 'masters' are purporting. After sitting with any deck of cards for the hours and days and weeks that you are taught to, and flipping them over back and forth as you 'guess' what they are, you begin to notice small, sometimes almost invisible imperfections on the backs of the playing cards. When you see this image, you are taught that this is that particular cards 'equation' or 'symbol' or 'mark'. Sounds like cheating right? Right. Once you memorize the imperfection, you memorize the card that goes with that imperfection: discoloration near the tip of the right corner/queen of clubs, L shaped scratch in the center/8 of spades, and so on and so on. Now you are taught to have integrity and all these other noble things, yet in the light of the 'peer' pressure and idol worshiping that exists at RSE, people allow this little 'white lie' to become nothing more than their god speaking to them from the cards. The key to actually proving yourself a master of the cards in the true sense of the word would mean that you could see through anything consistently. If you can see through a playing card 52 times in a row, then you should be able to see through anything. But this just isn't the case. Still, right now as I type this, there are members of RSE memorizing imperfections, and blemishes on the backs of playing cards calling it 'being god', or being 'master of the cards', when all they are doing is cheating and lying. When they can prove to the world that they can see through anything, anytime, not just a deck of THEIR cards that they have studied microscopically under blinding light for weeks and months and years, then we can call it maybe something special, until then, JZ and RSE will perpetuate this as some huge deal that Ramtha taught his students to see through playing cards. Just like everything else taught at this school, it is a farce, a lie, a cheat, a manipulation and a giant trick perpetuated on people who want to believe in the miraculous. What a cruel place.

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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:24 pm

"When you see this image, you are taught that this is that particular cards 'equation' or 'symbol' or 'mark'." -
This is actually "taught"!! - by Ramtha? by the so called selected "teachers"!
Thank you for sharing this, for your honesty.
It's yet another example of an essential technique used throughout everything at ramthaland - division. In the same vein as dividing the fields of the star tetrahedron by instructing to spin in opposite directions (which has NOTHING to do with wht the Merkabah is about), ---- there's always a separation made within oneself: thought/emotion; higher self/lower self; analogical mind/monkey mind; -- or between self and others - enlightenment/social consciousness; us/the villagers..... Etc Etc Etc -- look for the divisions -- just as jz accuses the churches of causing division, she does a better job. In this case - as Free points out - the person recognizes this is cheating and yet denies/rationalizes/separates the self from the self's integrity.
i'm sure ya'll could come up with other obvious such divisions promoted in ramthaland.
It's what steve klein/jz do in the community - promote division - accuse the city council of all manner of crap;
Divide and conquer - it's the old Machiavellian way -- a 'house' divided will fall; a person divided can be controlled.
I know I've wandered a bit from the specific of reading cards -- what Free has shared is just so reflective of the whole process at ramthaland - a first grader would recognize that as cheating yet intelligent sincere so called spiritually oriented adults can rationalize it into god talk!! Amazing!

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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Felicitas » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:43 pm

Wow, I did not yet know about the fact that they actually teach that the small, sometimes almost invisible imperfections on the backs of the playing cards are that particular cards 'equation' or 'symbol' or 'mark'. Ha!! Now I get how my mother could become one of the so-called 'masters of cards'...she told me some time ago that she is now also able to do the whole deck of cards without error. Since she told me that I have kept wondering how this is possible. I know she does not consciously lie to me, so apparently she herself is totally convinced that she has 'mastered' that 'discipline'. This certainly explains how, so thanks for sharing that, Freemysoul and Another Dimension60. It also explains why she has not been able (as yet) to do other stuff that would be truly mindblowingly amazing.
Whoa, it still boggles my mind every time I am confronted with yet another example of just how gullible we humans can be (myself being no exception I'm afraid). :shock:
And yes, I recognize what you mean when you point out the various divisions that are inherent to RSEdoublespeak and doublethink. It's full of divisions and mindbenders designed to make a crooked thing seem straight, much like in Orwell's '1984': "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is power"...
the future is unwritten

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Robair
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Robair » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:49 am

Hello guys
Freemysoul,thank you for sharing this with us,I am sure it took you some real soul searching to let this go.
But by doing so you have make it much easier for many to understand the mind set of this so call teaching.
We still have the offer for anyone in the school to come in our studio and do the cards trick.
We offer $1000.00 and still do,but I do not think that the amount of money should matter at all,if JZ would be sure that any of her students could do it she would have sent someone, just to shut EMF off and all the other critics.
If more money would make a difference they just have to let us know.
David has a great point if they can see through cards they should be able to do it with their blinders on
Thank you again for sharing
Oldone
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

appealing
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by appealing » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:08 am

Hi Freemysoul and everyone

I gave up on my practice with the cards because it felt like it didn't have any integrity - I was looking at the flaws in the cards and could see so many tiny marks on each one. I asked other masters about this and they said I was getting messages about what the cards were in these ways because I was not analogical enough to see the actual number and suit. I had posted something along these lines on the old board, but in the changeover it has been left behind. Anyway, nice to know that someone else has confirmed that they had a similar experience.

So good to have the new board all go. I was missing it!

8) Appealing

Kensho
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Kensho » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:28 pm

Hello Everyone,

There was an event in 2007, where Deb presented an account of the experience that she and Kenny shared while at IONS (Institute of Noetic Sciences). They were there to participate in a scientific study regarding psychic abilities by demonstrating seeing through cards. What became a problem for them (although Deb did not present it in quite these terms), was that IONS researchers placed the cards under a single sheet of white paper. Apparently this was enough of a barrier to 'seeing' for both of them.
It was stated by Deb that they would practice with the paper over the cards and then return to IONS...but apparently that return visit did not take place; as no more has been said about it. Nor did the claim that Deb would demonstrate her 'abilites' on Oprah materialize.

In recalling personal experience with the card thingy, I did actually see the shadows of numbers and suits appear both on the backs of, as well as beside some cards (where ever the gaze was resting), but in retrospect the amount of time spent sitting and staring to have the experience just wasn't worth it. When I contemplate what else I could have spent time and effort on in states of just a normally functional mind, I realize how much true life experience was lost through 'focus disciplines'. Although meditation is something that is an integral part of my life and has been for 30 years, thankfully the majority of it has not been spent focusing on distractions from the wonders of life.

I have come to the conclusion that the so called 'RSE disciplines' are intentionally designed to do many things but primarily they function to keep followers' minds occupied and distracted from thinking in a critical or even conventionally accepted way. This in turn may decrease the awareness of alarm reactions that normally function to move one away from situations of loss (of sanity, of life, of love etc). Even if an individual does attain the ability to see through a solid object, in the end, the question remains what will they do with that ability? Somehow I doubt that it would be put to use as a benefit to the world at large if the individual considers themselves to be the self serving god that is presented by RSE; for the pride involved with that perception pretty much eliminates room for compassion and the desire to help others. At no time did RSE instruct me to focus on someting like changing the weather to mitigate harm to others, or to manifest food for the starving, or to bring peace to places afflicted by hatred and war. In fact most of the focus seemed to be directed toward attaining wealth...and that was infused with instructions to give the lion's share to RSE (Here's looking at you Greg! :roll: )

To me, the loss of the desire to help others is the greatest loss of all. It is not only a sub-human state of mind but seemingly also a sub-animal one as well, for even animals express the desire to console and provide comfort through concern for their own offspring; and at times for other species (like humans) as well. Before, during and after the turmoil of RSE, and even when all seemed lost upon leaving RSE, when people that I considered friends expressed resentment and hatred toward me and my affiliation with EMF, my faithful dog never changed his tender expressions of concern and unconditional love. Gradually I recognized the awareness of that quality as still being present and as something open to cultivation through use. That was the greatest gift I recieved through the experience of RSE, but it only came back after leaving RSE, because that was what RSE promoted as the very thing to be eliminated. :sad:

To those who have left RSE and have returned to humanity, and as well to those who still have their minds imprisoned there, I'd like to offer these thoughts. Spend your time wisely; for surely it is better to have the ability to see another's suffering and to have the heartfelt desire to help relieve that, than to to see through a playing card. ;-)

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

freemysoul
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by freemysoul » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:00 pm

Beautifully eloquent Kensho,
Thank you for your thoughtful insight. That compassion you speak of has always been an integral part of who I always thought I was, and the longer I stayed locked into the limited thought pattern taught at rse, the less compassionate I became. Very wonderfully presented, thanks. It is so healing to read everyone else's experience and understandings on here, thank you all sincerely.

ex
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by ex » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:42 pm

I have come to the conclusion that the so called 'RSE disciplines' are intentionally designed to do many things but primarily they function to keep followers' minds occupied and distracted from thinking in a critical or even conventionally accepted way.
This in turn may decrease the awareness of alarm reactions that normally function to move one away from situations of loss (of sanity,
of life, of love etc).

bravo

Lost in Space
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:27 am

Reading through this thread, I kept thinking about Ingo Swann, a test subject of CIA PSI experiments for many years. He did remarkable things, it appears, that might have more practical use than being able to see through playing cards by memorizing their backs. In the 70s he did some research with an eminent quantum physicist (now what could this remind us of?)
see this article:
http://www.answers.com/topic/ingo-swann
I have read one of his books, in which he says that ESP is a normal human faculty, and a learned behaviour, and we can all achieve some measure of success in at least one or two types of so called psychic powers if we are willing to devote time and attention to their acquisition. For myself, I have had occasional startling experiences, and witnessed some pretty compelling evidence of PSI capabilities in others.
My general thought is that, even if RSE students can actually demonstrate their ability to read through playing cards, apart from being used as a marketing strategy as has been suggested here, what is the point? Will it "Walk my dog or feed my kids"? Will it improve the lives of others? Is it something "For the Common Good"?
Even taking as a given that students of RSE can achieve great things in the realms of ESP and PSI phenomenon, what are they being encouraged to use their powers for? Gambling?

Vanilla
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Re: Many new Masters of Cards?

Unread post by Vanilla » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:48 am

My experience with Cards

I was doubtful the whole time and fought with my best friend who could read them. I knew she was mapping. I had done it myself.

In fact I proved to my partner once I could do it, I picked out (easy ones) ones with scratch and memorized 5 in ten minutes. Then I called the teacher over, I think it was Kareem. I told him what I had done.

He said, " How do you know your partner can see the same scratches?"

I showed him, my partner could.

Then he said, " How do you know you aren't putting it into his head that those scratches are there?"

I was so bummed. I was just coming from across the globe to learn what I thought was magic, was just card mapping.

Another teacher, Laura, had told me the same thing.

I never met anyone who could do it while the card was covered.

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