JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Many experiences have happened during these techniques, known as disciplines, at RSE. People have been hurt physically, emotionally, and otherwise. Post your experiences.
there

JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:09 am

I came across a man named John Todd, who claimes he was born into a multi-generational satanic/luciferian family of witchcraft. gives clarity to harry potter. anyways he claimes that while in the council of thirteen in the early 70's he and 12 other witches would take the master copies of music recordings and call up lucifers princes to have thier demons follow all copies.
he also states that a demon can manifest itself as a ball of light hence ORBS.
kinda makes me sick thinking of walking around in the field through clouds of demons.
here is a link of him talking about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otti-82jEAc

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:53 am

Well the symbol of lucifer is the pentagram. and a very large one hangs on her east wall of the arena. so she awaits lucifer and the old ways.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/SabbaticGoat.JPG

makes me wonder if drawling a symbol of the pentagram on your forehead allows a demon to take charge of your pineal gland. for god sakes i guess you wouldn't want to invite demons into every chakra. what would that be called the black body dicisipline!

ex
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by ex » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:24 pm

doubtless jzr shows parallels to crowleys philosophies. she works with manipulation which is serious enough. to believe in in crap like this just validates jzr. from whom r this videos with the backward talking track in the background anyway. why give charlatans like her more power as they deserve? is it not enough that they step over dead bodies and ruined people? do they rely have to be the antichrist to accomplish this.

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:29 pm

yeah count the number of cursed albulms in your house should equal the number of orbs in your house.
makes me wonder if toys r us with thier pentagram curse every toy in the store to have a demon to follow all toys sold. like the movie chuckie. or the movie toy storie suggesting not to get rid of your demons or i i mean not to get rid of your toys, dont throw them in the trash, give them to another child so the demons can continue ruining holmes and famlies. yeah if your kid is talking to a toy get rid of it.

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:47 pm

john todd also mentioned that the vatican was built on top of on of the largest satanic worship centers in the world. ever wonder how saint kinda sounds like satanist. so on this upon satanic peter's Sigil carved into stone rock, cursed thier roadblock bible book for people seeking the path of christ to have demons follow all 300 translations.
could it be that bibles are cursed books. they build it and the seekers come.
many people have come foreward and stated that they have seen st peters sigil as when they attended a satanic initiation under the popes alter.
and if you research most of the 300 bibles were written by 33 degree masons. it has come out that a 33 degree mason pleges aligiance to lucifer, so francis bacon a 33 degree mason would be glad to curse his roadblock king james book for a christian for demons to follow all copies.
zietgeist said it best it is just a story told by master story tellers. its hard to debate to a bible reader for thier demon sends them a voice to ignore it, it is blasphmey.
what is the song oh when the saints come marching in? is that refernce to helter skelter, when the satanist achieve one world order.

Lost in Space
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:40 am

Hi, There.

I think Ex is right, they only have the power over you that you give them. I think that what demons there are result from negative thoughts, and can best be combatted by positive ones, and a rational or even a scholarly approach. You appear to be interested in conspiracy theory, and so you may be interested in Illuminati Conspiracy Archive, they have a website.
I personally would not give demons the satisfaction of believing in them.

Take care,
Lost in Space

freemysoul
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:25 am

There,
You might want to do a little research on John Todd. He is at the most a complete nutjob, and at least misguided.
I am always suspicious of demon/satan talk because it usually leads to some religious dogma, and usually stems from the same kind of fear mongering that I am very familiar with.
I have simplified my life recently, pulled back from the conspiracy rants of JZK inc., and now I find that the moment someone espouses similar rhetoric, I am repulsed.
I understand the desire to inform people of all the wolves in the fold, so to speak, just as this site informs the public to the dangers and pitfalls of a place like RSE, and I'm sure that you, There, are trying to do just that.
I refuse to live my life pulling a blanket up over my eyes at all the scary parts, and have learned from my JZK/R experience that I will never again allow someone to instill fear in me over ANYTHING. Maybe thats foolish, naive, or just as misguided as mr. todd, but whatever it is, it will and has come directly from me.

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:16 am

i agree i'm not making any orgone comforters to sleep with lol. but the whisper of a luciferian dedicated orb can waste a lot of time wondering is this my thought or the damn orb.
now look at a mason- a seeker non the least but after countless number of rituals pumping witchy orbs into them after years of a demons guiding them . after they finally make it to thier 33rd initiation lucifer seems so comfortable they go on ahead and accept it. actually they accept it at thier third degree when they take the rope off thier neck and say a new strand of energy is around thier neck and will be thier new guiding force. they just dont tell them the force is lucifer till many initations later that it was lucifer.

as for john todd, yeah i saw all the discrediting stuff on him, he went back to wicca and all that after realising he just really manifested a way to clean up on drugs for a bit. but at least he exposed many things before demons whispered him back to wicca.

actually oddly enough i worked at a restaraunt where leroy jenkins a evangilist in columbus, oh would bring his followers every sunday. john todd turned him to witchcraft and stage hypnosis and helped him buy his property; nice big house like jz's. this man was so foul, and he sit at a table with all these gay men from the soap operas industry, he cuss like jz and brag about all the tax free donations he'd get. one time i was pouring a lady some coffee and she flipped out into a seizure, and jenkins ran over and thumped her on the 4head and well she did snap out of it.
and i responded to an add to get an austrailan sheppard puppy at todd's coven compound in columbus, wow those people had the wildest look in thier eyes, so no i passed on the puppy.
and recently i went to san antonio tx where john todd cursed the albulms at zodiac productions and my friend all of a sudden gives me a book from his uncle who actually knew john todd in dayton ohio. his uncle claims he passed all the levels to meet god and god told him to tell the world to live by only two rules 1. to live by the golden rule 2.to imagine a constant beam of god's silver white light constantly shining on yourself. and to scrap the ten other rules.
and i grew up with a kid named john todd who got into the record producing industry and all ways tried to get me into dungeon and dragons. i'd maybe of passed over this john todd stuff, but just to many puzzle pieces going on here. so shared i did
for some people this may really help them to clear the black and white path orbs out and just leave the middle path helpers.

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:22 am

oh free my
now wikipedia can be created by anyone, so it is not all ways the truth. i know so many people who jump on wikipedia to find the real truth. i could right now go to wiki and edit and add stuff on jz and totally discredit her which would be easy to do. hmmmm well i got to go

joe sz
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:49 pm

the wiki post on Tod checks out:
Todd was arrested in May 1987 for the rape of a University of South Carolina graduate student. After his arrest, he was additionally charged with sexually molesting two children who attended a karate school where he worked. He was convicted of the rape in January 1988 and sentenced to 30 years in state prison.[11] In 2004, Todd was released, but he was put in the care of the Behavioral Disorder Treatment Unit run by the South Carolina Department of Mental Health.[12] On November 10, 2007, Todd died in the institute.[2]
I've worked in an emergency psych hospital [ behavioral health clinic] for 12 years now in the intake dept and see clients at their worst coming in, have to evaluate them, sometimes restrain them, before a doc sees them, etc. Police drag them in off the streets, ERs refer them, and half just come in to seek help. Every sort of illness and behavioral disorder in the DSM spectrum has come through our doors over the years--I've interviewed thousands. Quite a few exhibited the same behaviors I see in unhealthy cult leaders and narcissistic occultists of all stripes. Self-generated religious preoccupation is a common theme among the mentally ill. What makes them "ill" is that their ideas are not readily applicable to society, do not check out academically, and often are harmful to intellectual and emotional function when carried too far. Ill or imbalanced people with character disorders like Todd can be extremely manipulative and "lie" or make stuff up without feeling guilt. yes, he was a nutjob and a criminal.

iow, if you have no sane distance or educated awareness when you interact with such folk, their world can make you crazy too and you can become a devoted cult member for life.

Is JZ launching demons? If you even suspect that without hard evidence, you need a reality check, seriously.

There, it seems to me you are struggling with too many loose associations. Please be careful for your own sake.

joe sz
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:04 pm

Lost,
you said:
I think Ex is right, they only have the power over you that you give them.
Not so fast. I think that some of what 'There' is bringing up re hypnosis is accurate. We all can be manipulated to do what is normally against our will or awareness. the S Milgram experiments, Prof Phillip Zimbardo prison experiment, The Wave experiment by teacher Ron Jones in 1967, and a host of others i could list all prove that normal, intelligent people can be made [tricked] to do or believe evil or crazy things against their better judgment.

We are social beings and need feedback from one another to know who we are and how to make healthy decisions. On our own we are usually toast. The question is, what is the feedback? Who and what do we associate with? Social psychology is full of examples of why this is true. iow, healthy individual choice depends upon reality testing through others and the environment. This includes how we handle the demon world if you or your religion includes that as a kind of surreality.

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:52 pm

hi joe,
i think you need to realize that these demonic orbs whisper ideas into peoples minds. and most of the time people brush it off like where the hell did that idea come from. but when on drugs the critical part of the mind is at rest and the voices go right into the hard drive. That is why jz loves wine ceremonies, for it corrupts her students closer to lucifer her pentagram friend. and we all know for a fact that the demonic orbs at the school have succesfully made adults (like joeseph age) sleep with young women (marrys age) (the bible is such a sick book having full grown men line up to sleep with young women, but it is lucifers sunworshipping story) while she gets them to ingest drugs.

the orbs got john todd back into drugs and framed him right into discreditation.
when i look at how john todd got leroy jenkins all set up it so closely mirrors jz set up.

jenkins sold his property to a hindu group. if a trend will jz sell her proerty to the budha group across the street?

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/0 ... ist08.html

i remember one time i was in my friends (some kid named smith)car and it litteraly broke down and stalled right in front of his healing waters arena. i looked at my friend and laughed and said so shall we go in and get healed.
kinda odd how cars break down in front of jz's arena. the work of demonic orbs i say.

john todd mentions how the soap opera industry is mostly gay witches. and i got to personally know one of jenkins bisexual soap opera groupies. this guy was formerly a groupie at his healing waters arena, and went to jail for dealing cocaine while working in the soap opera industry, and after jail he began working at the restaraunt i was at, and i began dating his girlfriends roommate. then jenkins comes into sunday brunch and literaly put him in a trance and moved him back into his house. he just left his totally hot girlfriend and we never saw him again except for sunday brunch. oh and this guy looked awefully close to john knight really im not lying here. wow that just poped in my mind the puzzle pieces are really adding up here.
if you want to help people joe maybe you could make the patient realize the crazy voice is not thier own, make them realize the sickness is not thier problem but the orb's problem. but i,m sure if you do that the orbs will make all your coworkers discredit that one quickly.

Felicitas
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Felicitas » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:45 am

Hi There,

Why do you need to believe in demons? I just don't get it. Do you have proof of your claims that demon(orb)s exist? If so, I'd like to see it.
A guess tells me however that you do not have such proof, because the simple truth is that demons do not exist, except in the minds of humans. In other words, they are fantasies, conjured up to perform a function. The function is that humans can then blame all sorts of stuff on the demon-fantasies, so they don't have to take responsibility for these things themselves. So when something bad or weird happens in your life: blame it on the demon. Personally, I don't buy into that. If RSE has shown me one thing, it is what happens when human beings give away their power over their lives to some 'saviour' (in the case of RSE: the Ramtha-fantasy) and follow him/her blindly. The moment a person becomes a follower/believer, what he or she actually does is to disassociate himself/herself from the responsiblity he/she has for his/her own actions.
As far as I am concerned, the same goes for people who believe in supernatural (demonic or otherwise) powers ruling their lives or having some effect on their lives, which is beyond their grasp. Again: to me that is a clear case of refusing to take responsiblity for one's life.
So, when that happens, I ask myself: why do people feel that need? Is the idea of a reality without such forces at work just too boring? Personally, I do not think so. On the contrary, it is much more exciting, because it means that shaping my life is truly up to me and no one else.
the future is unwritten

Kensho
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Kensho » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:27 pm

Extremely well stated Felicias.
Thank you for sharing that.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

joe sz
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by joe sz » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:25 pm

this thread is close to going off the rails.....
as to orb demons, et al:
I tell my clients who believe in/or feel effected by this woo-woo stuff, who believe/experience the dangerous or benign occult powers of their gurus [Satya Sai Baba, Zen Master Rama, for example] that I have been an open critic of many dozens of cult leaders and their powers since 1980, quoted in newspapers and appearing on tv as a critic. I should be toast if any demon power existed, yet, at 63 I am healthy, take no meds, remain happily married, have no "attacks" during my dreams, and even drove past the Yelm home of JZ many times without incident :roll:

I have sat before established occultists with cult followings who claim to have such power, asked them to demon--strate, and voila, poof, nada. Without smoke and mirrors and succumbing to the power of suggestion, self-suggestion or social contagion the tricks of the mind to alter perception do not work.

Now do not get me wrong: I am not claiming that demons do not exist. I do not know, but if they do, deceit and decieving appear to be their greatest powers.

There are some good medications for people who chronically hear and see what Jung called 'autonomous complexes.'

Or, if you prefer, I have a hell of a guardian angel who takes care of all the demons for me :D

Lost in Space
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:52 pm

Hey Joe:

I am not the one who made any connection between believing in demons and mental illness! I just don't, myself, believe in demons, but I was not calling There a coo coo person for believing in demons, instead, I suggested a website where people expound upon some of the same ideas he is touching on, because I believed he might find it of interest. I don't know much about John Todd, but I don't think I want to find out. Nor was I lumping There in with any particular group, or supposing that he shares ideas or problems with other members of EMF. Since I don't believe in demons, I discount that as an explanation for why people join RSE or stay in RSE. The people from RSE that I am acquainted with are quite sane, and I would say the same thing about most people here on EMF.
I have to say, I don't believe in DSM either, Joe.
All the best,
Lost in Space

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:33 pm

hey lost in space. i sorta agree they only have the power over you if you let them, kinda of. if you were pumped full with a millions demons they'd tip the scales and could have the power to have you corrupt an entire town.
but lets just say you only did 6 events and performed 20 rituals did a black body discipline and put a demon into every chackra and left the school, and overall have 100 demons attached to you. and you're a pretty strong individual and can resist their whispers most of the time. because the dark side teaches persuasion, and you may think you have the power over them, but they are some shifty little orbs, and have persuaded others with their techniques. how many times have persuasive advertisements made you go against your will, and spend your hard earned money against your will, or manifest a symptom against your will.
igor ledowchowshi of power of conversational hypnosis has studied many persuasion techniques/hypnosis and he states that he wouldn't dare watch tv for how they write programs into the back of the mind that fire off all the time. he's made millions making adds for major companies so he can understand it at that level.
so yeah if you were consciously aware of their evil intent you could resist, but what if they use a persuasion tactic and sneak one into your hard drive? :twisted:

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:41 pm

hey Felicitas
you and joe walk around and you see noting floating in the air but yet these digital cameras capture a spectrum of reality that these balls of light exist you have not yet rose to. so you ask me of proof and there you go.
joe ignores his patients cries and states that they are crazy and to ignore thier imagination, but yet digital cameras are giving proof of thier existance.
i think this thread is right on, and joe needs to be away from those patients.

Lost in Space
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:02 pm

Hi There

Why must it be demons? Isn't it PEOPLE who deliberately put subliminal symbols in advertising? Isn't it people who persuade us, at times seemingly against our will? There is a book I read in my teens - Subliminal Seduction - about this phenomenon in advertising. And, besides the actions, we have to figure out what the motives of these people are. Television is an interesting antropological and sociological phenomenon for sure! But okay, allowing for the possibility of demons in my own way, where 1 demon equals 1 negative or other-controlled thought, and 100 demons is equal to 100 negative or other-controlled thoughts, demons can be bid good riddance if you counter them with angels or positive, life and self-affirming thoughts. Fair enough? I guess I don't fear advertisements because I cannot be convinced that my life would be better if I acquired more things, and I cannot be convinced that I would be a better person if I did what somebody with an obvious profit motive tells me to. Leaving television asside, I confess that when we move into the arena (as it were) of spiritual belief or specialized mystic knowlege, the issues are much less clear and it can be difficult to tell an angel from a demon, or a positive thought from a negative one, or a profit motive from one of altruism. I don't have a back door in my hard drive that is at all permeable anymore, There, so no Trojan Horse is getting in here - been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. That is not to say I can never be fooled or mistaken, but I am much harder to sneak up on than I used to be.

Felicitas
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Felicitas » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:59 am

Hi There,

I have seen the orb-photographs (and have taken a fair share of them myself, with my digital camera) and what I see on them are balls of light, some with patterns in them and some without. That's it. And that is also the only fact there is. When it comes to the question of what they are, it is very simple: EVERY explanation people have thought up is pure speculation and remains so as long as one of these speculations or hypotheses is not proven by solid facts. So, your conviction that the orbs are demons is also - absent any proof - nothing more than speculation. And that's fine, as long you don't loose track of that. I'm all for wondering and speculating about the amazing phenomena we encounter in this world, after all, expanding our knowledge and understanding is one of the primary characteristics of being a human being. Curiosity is healthy. Only when it comes to your posts I can't help but notice that you take your hypothesis about the demon-orbs as fact. You're convinced that that is the truth. And that is why I asked you the question why you feel the need to believe in that. A question which you have not yet answered by the way..
the future is unwritten

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:20 am

man these smilies seem to me wiccans are trying to cartoonize deathstar demonic orbs.

here could be some proof. so i come across this witchcraft in the music industry & it gets me thinking. so i opened up discussions with a lot of people out in public, and most people all had their story to add to it. so i wanted to reach more people to get them to become aware and pray to banish these buggers. so i spend some of my hard earned money and i create a john todd t-shirt at some local graphic shop. its the holiday season so basically when i wear it at the mall i'm going to get, through the grapevine effect the entire city contiplating the illuminati cursing stuff we buy.
first of all my car wont start, odd so i prayed and finally it did start. then when as soon as i get on the road cops are all over me, i had to keep pulling into store parking lots, i'm aware the demons are working these beings with lucifers cursed badges enveloping a demon around thier heart and soul. so i grab a quick bite to eat. and i had to run outside to stop people pulling parts off my auto. luckily it was still was able to start. I'm not letting these demons stop me i say and i go to the mall. there are 5 cops at the door and i just ignore them and go inside. now the oddest thing i have ever wittnesed was how when i walked in a store the store would clear out, when i would strike a up a conversation the person would instantly react like a thought ball hit them from kinda like behind me but up in the air. kinda gave me the impression that they the demonic orb was telling the person hey look over here and not at his t-shirt. and the whole time i would talk to people they would look away, so on one person i said hey what do you think about the t-shirt i made to get her to actually ger the person to look directly at it, and off my flank 5 other people came up and started talking really loud and kinda huddled around me and this person i was talking to to stall enough time for her friend to come up and grab her hand and run her into another store then instantly the people talking loudly left. oddest thing i have ever seen. when i get home the furnace is broken the house freezes and i wake up with a cold.
so i go to the the auto store to replace parts stolen off my auto the next morning and the clerk tells me, oh why dont you just go to this mechanic. so i do and he gives me all the parts and fixes for free. so i was rewarded for being at a service to people and exposing the illuminatti curses.
from what i experienced it was beyond coincidence. i dont even want to hear one of you reply that one on me.
they're out there and lots of them.
so lets say you know someone who has a cursed item or upon themselves, don't add to their problems and be niave about it, be like fox moulder and say i believe ya. so of course don't add to their problems by saying your crazy those aren't real, now just take a couple of pills you crazy human. don't enforce crazy is, is crazy does. be more like william glassner famous for his book on reality therapy, and say i believe ya these demons are here on earth by the billions, but what are you going to do about it, what goals are you going to work towards to get the cotton out of your mind. :shock:

freemysoul
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by freemysoul » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:59 am

There,
Putting John Todd on anything, and professing its power or importance is akin to having Charles Manson doing victim advocate work.
I wish the best for you There.
Peace and Love

Felicitas
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Felicitas » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:56 am

There,
Reading your reply shows me that you are apparently - from your point of view - really sincere in that what you present as proof actually is what I meant when I asked for proof. So first of all I'll say that I do appreciate that you did not just ignore or brush off my request, but made an effort to answer it. So thanks for that. But when it comes to the content of your reply (as well as that of your other posts), I must honestly say that I am at a loss.

It is clear to me now that you are so absolutely rooted in your beliefs that you are in fact reading the world around you and what is happening to you in it through a mega-filter, created by you. That filter makes sure that everything that happens, such as your experiences in the mall or with your car, is interpreted in such a way that it reinforces your belief about demons hunting you. In other words, you've got a major case of confirmation bias. All humans do have it to some degree, but in your case, like in that of RSE-students, it has gotten totally out of hand.

I will not launch into a lengthy discussion about how ALL of the stuff you present as proof of your demon(orb)theory can be explained in a rational way, because to me (and I suspect to many other readers of this message board) that just too obvious. Also, I have decided that this is my last post in this discussion thread, because I have nothing more to say on this subject. And I guess it does not fit here anyway, because it does not really qualify as 'general chit chat'. I wish you good luck dodging demons (from your point of view you're gonna need it) and hope that some day you will escape your mental prison.
the future is unwritten

Lost in Space
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:00 pm

I think this thread is really several threads!
I want to thank There for stimulating a lively discussion.
Orbs, demons, Witches, Satan and Lucifer, social pressures, persuasion, departures from the norm, group interventions...
I have to make the comment, though, There, that the Satanist or Lucifer servant has little in common with a Nature worshipping, do unto others, be careful what you wish for Wiccan. I am not a Wiccan, but I know some, and they are highly ethical people who do not worship the Prince of Darkness. I don't agree with the blanket equation you are formulating between Pagan and Evil.
When you speak about orbs and demons, I just see them as "those things that plague us or drag us down", elements in life that work against us, or parts are our own nature that we must combat if we are to live a decent, honourable and fulfilling life.
I also read that book on orbs. I am not sure what they are: could be specks on the camera lens, could be refractions of light, could be naturally occuring phenomena about which as yet we know little. The pictures are beautiful. But if you consider the film industry especially as regards special effects, it is possible to imagine that they are engineered.
In any case, whatever it is you think is going on in Life's struggle between good and evil, There, I hope you find a path that leads you to peace of mind.
LIS

joe sz
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by joe sz » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:30 pm

back on the rails :arrow:
The people from RSE that I am acquainted with are quite sane, and I would say the same thing about most people here on EMF.
I have to say, I don't believe in DSM either, Joe.
All the best,
Lost in Space
Lost, I get your point but need to address the "faith" issue.
Is "sane" your diagnosis or a perception? No one I know where I work, the psychiatrists incuded "believe" in the DSM.
The DSM is a developing tool used (and misused) to make sense out of or create a language to describe a spectrum of behavioral disorders in the human population. RSE members believe in the White Book perhaps as if it were a Bible or Koran. I do not use the DSM at work like a Bible. It is more like a calculator, a descripter or scale. It is like a bird watchers manual. When a birder spots a strange bird, he can look it up to see if anything behaves and appears like it. Once identified he can communicate with fellow birders about a specific animal to heighten awareness and lessen confusion. That's it. The manual has nothing to do with belief in a higher truth or a cult ritual.
The difference is that we yet have a lot more to learn about human behavior and neurology than we do about birds.

I think there is a general fascination and fear with what is sane or not and an enormous amount of nonsensical stereotyping and misperception about that in some individuals. Part of the confusion is in the context---people in mental hospitals are not all insane, in fact few are. Many are quite as sane as you or I or the average RSE member, as you so kindly pointed out. Iow, they are emotionally disturbed or overly anxious without psychotic symptoms AND they need or want help. We generally reserve the word "insane" to mean psychotic behavior, not mental illness. Psychotic behavior includes acting on voices or visions that have no connection to reality. Take JZ and the big R, eg :-)

And yes, one behaves as if crazy or insane if the conspiracy they believe in has no connection to reality. There is also a difference between acting insane and being that way. Take Hamlet and Ophelia, eg, in the play.

I recently watched a well done dramatic film from India 2006 called "15 Park Avenue" about a woman with schizophrenia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_Park_Avenue
This film lays out much of what we are discussing here and offers an intriguing ending that I thought profound

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:19 pm

Hi Joe:

I guess for sane we could substitute rational, or we could substitute socially acceptable.
I appreciate your not taking offence from my remark.
My argument with DSM is that it represents the Medical Model way of looking at various troubling (to individuals or those around them or both) behaviours and ideations, whereas I prefer some other models, such as Social Psychology, Behavourism, or even, Nurture as opposed to Nature, or Learning Theory, or Adlerian psychology, or Positive Rationalism; really, anything but those toxic pills, Joe. I understand that the Psychiatric community is trying to help, that pills do help some people, that those who prescribe them believe that they have studied their effects, and must be very learned to be able to prescribe them - still I think the cure in some cases is worse than the so called disease. And it's a shame that psychiatric diagnoses carry with them the very stigmas they were designed to eliminate. Also, I remind you that prior to the advent of modern psychological theories, people were believe to have an imbalance of their "humours", or, in religious parlance, be DEMONICALLY POSESSED if they exhibited non-coping and unusual behaviours.
I am pleased to hear that a distinction is being drawn between 'mental illness' and emotional distonia or disorders. Also pleased to hear someone from the therapeutic community saying that "we still have a lot to learn".
If we look in DSM, though, wouldn't believing in demons warrant a diagnosis? Whereas, believing in God would certainly not be classified as aberrant. There is, of couse, some relativism. If someone grows up in an entire community of people sharing like beliefs, and those beliefs depart radically from commonly held ones, still I think they would be judged "sane" or normal* (*I don't use that word much).
"It is the norm in this, as in all other things prevails. Assent and you are straightaway sane; dissent and you are dangerous, and handled with a chain." Sylvia Plath

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:41 am

Actually, I believe, Lost, that in olden times people who were a little different, or exhibiting the sort of 'symptoms' which we might today call psychiatric disorders, were often believed to be 'touched by God', which is why we still have the saying, today, that someone is a little 'touched'.

Yes, I very much agree with you that within the psychiatric system various medications and other treatments can seem to the patient to be worse than the 'dis-ease' itself, and I, also, have various arguments with the DSM, if one were to take it as a bible, and not to consult it as a frame of reference, or some sort of guideline. After years of working with troubled people, DSM or no DSM, whilst I would hesitate to go so far as to say that problems that people appear to be exhibiting are always very obvious signs of this, or that disorder, nevertheless, in a great many cases, they are.

W.E.

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:55 pm

Not just to patients, W.E.
It's the Medical Model I take issue with, because it involves medication.
And, major pharmaceutical companies are being sued because of the drastic effects of some of these pills.
Further, it's not just people deemed to be psychotic or hospitalized for bizzare behaviour who are being prescribed the pills, and in the absence of any other form of treatment - you can get them from your GP. Look at the widespread use of Valium in the 60s or Prozac in the 90s (and at the Ranch).
Life hurts sometimes and there's no pill for that.
And in my own life I have acquaintances and friends who have suffered certain unpleasant side effects from their meds., such as rapid weight gain, stupefecation, increase in suicidal thoughts, thyroid or other organ damage, loss of sexual function, sleeplessness, anxiety, even brain damage in one case.
I wish that Touched by God idea was as widespread as you think it was. Unfortunately, people troubled in their minds or emotionally unbalanced were locked up, chained to walls, or put in boats and cast out to sea, or beaten to drive out the demons. The medical model is, at least, better than that and far more compassionate.
It may be useful from a therapeutic standpoint to categorize people according to their problem behaviours and ideations. Where, IMO, it all falls down is where particular treatments are recommended for all people suffering from the same "illness". It would be nice if there was a pill for emotional imbalance that works the way insulin works for diabetics, but that's not what is happening.
Getting off my soapbox now.
Happy New Year everyone!

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 pm

Happy New Year, Lost, and everyone.

Thank you for everything that you have said, Lost. Of course, there is a massive amount of truth in what you say, and I have a great deal of sympathy with it. There are no clear answers, and the medical model can still be a fairly brutal system, in many ways, when it comes to emotional and mental welfare. There can be no 'one size fits all' approach which is in any way successful for a great number people, although this is the context in which many designer, psychiatric drugs are used.

Bless you for bringing all these very salient points to our attention. They should be considered carefully, even though I have no idea how things might be changed to offer something better, both with regard to the medical model and other, gentler models, such as psychotherapy, et al, which sometimes have to be used in conjunction with anti-depressants, for a while, anyway. There is not the space, nor, perhaps, is this the forum, for a more indepths discussion with regard to these important and sensitive issues, but I do thank you for what you have said.

W.E.

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:27 pm

Hi W.E.

Yes, I'm sure you are right, they may not be an appropriate place for such discussions, confined as they are to the interests of a few.
However, as this topic broached by There concerns demons and orbs and such, it naturally tends towards issues of faith, belief and differing viewpoints, and the question of what is rational, and how best to deal with what may appear to be irrational to some. Also, this section of the forum at least is for General and Social Chat, and so is not confined to topics specific to RSE, departure from RSE, or the aftermath for people leaving RSE, although I do see a tie in with such concerns. I do not consider I am or anyone else is doing EMF a disservice by giving members other things to think about on this thread.
As someone trained as a Life Skills Coach, with a focus on advocacy for former psychiatric patients, I naturally approached this topic from my own perspective, as I am sure so did you, Joe, Felicitas and others. I am respectful of others' point of view. I see that no other alternatives are considered for the depressed, except in conjunction with anti-depressants, whereas in my experience depressed people can learn to cope and may have better outcomes without them. I try to contribute in my own way. I am committed to the idea that a better way should be offered and is being offered by some here and there.
And no, there is no easy solution or one best way.
I bless you back, W.E., as being someone who is wise and compassionate and has valuable insights to offer here.
All the best,
LIS

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Robair » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:08 pm

Hello everyone
I know sometime we want everyone to stick as much as possible to the contect of the forum but my self thing that this one has turned to a much better and in depth subject then what it started.Talking about orbs and demons it really not a stimulating or informatics subject that we really want to continue,so as far as I am concern you guys can continue with this one,My self is learning a lot from it.
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by joe sz » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:58 pm

thanks oldone.

this is both an unwieldy and important topic as WE, Lost and others have so eloquently in their own ways stated.
The struggle as i see it has been apparent since the days of Freud and Jung who both tried to use scientific principles to treat clients yet find ways to address metaphysical issues that one could not treat with an antibiotic, insulin, chemotherapy or surgery. Freud warned Jung to 'beware of the black tide of the occult' and Jung did not listen. Jung went into that crazy world [his channeling of Philemon and Red Book is the evidence] and came out "sane."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(Jung)

As was mentioned, the new meds have been a godsend for many folks whereas for others the cure seems worse than the disease [sociologists used to say this about us deprogrammers in the old days :roll: ]

Before the advent in 1950s of thorazine and stellazine, folks with schizophrenia had almost no life and suffered inside their heads in institutions, on the streets or in jails. They were treated with crude forms of electric shock, psychosurgery-lobotomy or insulin shock therapy. Yes, meds have side efects, yes we have a long way to go, yes many meds need to be discarded, yes the pharmaceutical industry has become a corporate cabal, but for many folks turning back to the early 20th century and "alternative treatments" would only mean more suffering and death. I think that what Lost does has tremendous value for people ooking to live with meds with some success. We get clients at our hospital who are on horrible regimens of polypharmacy [5 to 15 meds a day], our Docs will stop all meds that are not medically necessary like insulin or BP meds, observe the patient for a week or so, and then try a minimal medication if symptoms require it. Too many docs prescribe meds because they can without enough concern for piling them up.

I think sanity is not the question here as much as quality of life under certain belief systems. The terrorist Saudi pilots of 9/11 lived among us/US as sane adults for years planning their moves. Yet we could argue with good reason that their quality of belief was horribly constricted and misguided thus leading to the worst kind of behavior. This discussion is about behavioral health, not belief, but quality of belief is clearly a key factor in behavior.

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by joe sz » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:12 pm

I think that what Lost does has tremendous value for people ooking to live with meds with some success
typo--meant to say "for people looking to live without meds"

the studies I've seen re depression show that most patients with clinical depression rise out of depression with or without medication and therapy in 6 months as long as social support is adequate. I think a person's core health and resilience have more to do with recovery than meds.
The same holds true for ex-cult members, most of whom do quite well after a year or so without formal exit counseling.
I suppose it is that crazy confused period shortly after the breakdown, divorce or cult exit that brings many to ask for help or think they need it.

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:41 pm

I have skimmed over this thread, and my only comment is, "Why do some people seem to have to have some supernatural crap to believe in? Is it because you lack self confidence, such that you must dream up (or let someone else do it for you), some kind of imaginary beings to run your lives? Do these entities (be it ramtha, orbs or space aliens) allow you to not have to take resonsibility for your own actions and their consequences?"

Get a life!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:33 am

hey grandfarther are you a athiest

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:03 am

My beliefs are more along the line that there is probably a higher power running the whole infinite universe. This God didn't have to create the universe since God and the universe are both eternal and infinite.

Then man evolved and invented religion, in all its hundreds (thousands?) of forms and things have been screwed up ever since.

No! You can't join my religion. Go start your own, or follow some charlaton like Judy Knight.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:27 am

yeah some man started all this confusion

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Duk » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:56 am

I do believe orbs could be demons, I mean maybe, and I have received spiritual attacks, just remember that the number 1 strategy of the enemy is to remain unnoticable.


And "there", your statements about Vatican and the Bible, are completly out of context.IMHO I mean since JZ is antichurch, so now everybody in "Launching" demons according to "there".. so what the heck is you point!? where do you want to go whit this?

And it is very curious how many of the members of this forum have a newage-kinda philosophy still and havent move on, others have, but not the majority, anyways everybody has to go there own way...

Anyways peace may be with you.


Duk

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:24 am

hey duk
the context of rome is several people have claimed that a sigil is below the altar in rome (david icke interviewed some lady arizona wilder who claimed she attended a sacrifice at the sigil). therefore i wonder if rome thought it would be even easier to control people's spirituality if the attached a entity/orb wicca to each bible and chant a purpose for the orb to control the christian who accepted a curse.
there are over 300 bibles and most were written by 33 degree mason, that is fact. sad we live in a world where the only time we agree on one spiritual truth is when the one world order tries to make us follow one faith.
so what should people move on to duk?

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Duk » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:28 pm

Man dont get unto conspiracy theories, Ive been into all of that crap and is just a waist of time. Dont buy that bs, it is the same bs-structure as the teachings at rse, they make you believe stupid nonsense, move on bro thats my recommendation.

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:49 pm

Maybe the issue is, developing a healthy form of faith or dispensing with faith alltogether? I expect that values and ethics are enough for some, philosophy and scientific inquiry for others...I don't begrudge There the conspiracy theory bent, we all have our own way of dealing with trauma and angst, but I see conspiracy theory as something developed by Fundamental Christians, and it appears to me, There, that that may be where, on the faith spectrum, you fall. No criticism for that. Thing is, does all of this conspiracy theorizing make you or anybody else feel better, and better equipped to deal with life? RSE has been accused of fear mongering, and by airing all of these theories in the way that you have here, at times it appears that you are doing that too.
That being said, you are obviously intelligent and have a lot to say, and I humbly suggest that instead of reading everybody else's books and blogs, you write your own.

there

Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by there » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:06 pm

well just trying to warn anyone interested in attending rse that i've reconized witchcraft paraphernalia.
i'm not trying to create fear.
if someone warned me about tainted coke cola id say thank you, not yell at the person.

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Robair » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:19 am

Hello there
I am going to be 64 years old I have drank coke since I was 15 for many years I was drinking 3 to 4 aday and and still kicking, I do have artritist in my hips not enought to bather me that much and that may contributed to it but my father had the same problem and he never drank even one coke or soda in his life. I am not saying that coke is good for you but will say that is supposed effects are exgagerated I do think it is adictive, and we all will be better off with out it, but putting on the consperacy wagon I don't think so.
It is stuff like that that make you not credible, you have come up with some very good point on here why don't you stick to those instead consperacy theories I am pretty sure all of us have heard most of them and we at EMF I really getting tired ot it this site is not about that please understand that.
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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:16 am

there wrote:hey duk
the context of rome is several people have claimed that a sigil is below the altar in rome (david icke interviewed some lady arizona wilder who claimed she attended a sacrifice at the sigil).
I'm sure if youreally searched you would fin several people who would claim that space aliens attended an Elvis concert, and someone who interviewed someone who would swear they saw Elvis whisked away on a spaceship, while the left a body behind to cover the deed.
:roll:
Elvis lives on the third moon of Saturn!
:roll:
Now, in case you missed it, that was intended as sarcasm so please don't grab it and run with it,
:roll:
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by ex » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:27 am

since i diden't know the word sigil i looked it up interesting reading to the background of rse thinking?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(magic)

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by Heyoka » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:14 am

Its quite obvious she is in the Illuminatti.
She channels the Sun God, flaunts 3 of thier symbols in her books. NAA- negative alien agenda traits.
Illuminatti are connected to the NAA. Sacrafices peoples well being for the good of her group.
Used the Matrix books as her bible.
I've seen her possessed by Ramtha before People started calling her a fraud.
Illuminatti doesnt allow much respite for thier members so theres more chance of fraud when they want you to keep the contract even if you're a facade. Under contract to collect tears and blood through abuse, neglect and deprivation.
The blood and tears have high chemical content from trauma unlike happy tears. Creating atmosphere of keeping people down and distracted from their life purpose. Propagate fear. Conjuring up other demons.
The maze, field and tank are the best places to perform spells and rituals with the blood and sweat all over the area. Its like the elite having people pour feces, blood and milk all over thier walls to summon a demon into a small statue.
Illuminatti has a goal to fool people by material goods and own thier soul for it. She deflects like a demon.
So...I've been seeing real demons since I was a child and in RSE at age 8.
The demons came right out of her matrix bible. I suggest not shaking hands with her.
Keep your gifts hidden from her. She used my psychic energy when I was a child.
She took it from me. I was then chased by demons till I was 15.
When I gave up my gifts, it went away. Now since my awakening in 2017 I see them again. Theyre still around.

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Re: Please stop feeding fear on EMF

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:47 am

Heyoka,
Its quite obvious she is in the Illuminatti.
-Moderator Warning-
Dear Heyoka,
I understand your deep fears and concerns... however!
Did you read the above posts and debate on this subject?
Your continued posting of unsubstantiated claims about the 'Illuminati' and 'demons' serves JZ Knight and RSE and little else.
This adds nothing to EMF in our efforts to help RSE survivors clean out their delusional 'Ramtha' fears and madness.
as I shared with you recently...
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Carl Sagan.
please..stop feeding fear on EMF...this is what you are doing and not helpful at all, it has to stop now.
Your post will stand...
Any future unsubstantiated posts on the subject of the 'Illuminati and 'Demons' will be removed without notice.
I hope you understand Heyoki.

David


Related:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - RationalWiki
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Extraordi ... y_evidence

EMF POSTING GUIDELINES Registration Agreement Terms
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3&p=3#p3
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Re: JZR Launching Demons Into Her Students?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:30 am

I agree with Joe sz...pulled from this topic. :idea:
by joe sz » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:49 am

I've worked in an emergency psych hospital [ behavioral health clinic] for 12 years now in the intake dept and see clients at their worst coming in, have to evaluate them, sometimes restrain them, before a doc sees them, etc. Police drag them in off the streets, ERs refer them, and half just come in to seek help. Every sort of illness and behavioral disorder in the DSM spectrum has come through our doors over the years--I've interviewed thousands. Quite a few exhibited the same behaviors I see in unhealthy cult leaders and narcissistic occultists of all stripes. Self-generated religious preoccupation is a common theme among the mentally ill. What makes them "ill" is that their ideas are not readily applicable to society, do not check out academically, and often are harmful to intellectual and emotional function when carried too far. Ill or imbalanced people with character disorders like Todd can be extremely manipulative and "lie" or make stuff up without feeling guilt. yes, he was a nutjob and a criminal.
iow, if you have no sane distance or educated awareness when you interact with such folk, their world can make you crazy too and you can become a devoted cult member for life.

Is JZ launching demons? If you even suspect that without hard evidence, you need a reality check, seriously.
There, it seems to me you are struggling with too many loose associations. Please be careful for your own sake.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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