"The List"

Many experiences have happened during these techniques, known as disciplines, at RSE. People have been hurt physically, emotionally, and otherwise. Post your experiences.
Lost in Space
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"The List"

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:21 am

Thanks for heads up about Geminids!
Please tell me you're joking about "The List", and, also, what is on "The List"? Sounds ominous.

curiouser&curiouser
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by curiouser&curiouser » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:22 am

There are ELF (extremely low frequency) generators in the arena... therefore I don't think that all sorts of subliminal tapes are beyond the realm of possibility!
I wear the cheese, it does not wear me. ~Buffy

ex
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by ex » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:30 am

what do elf generators do? how can you recognize them? r the effects reaching farther than the arena? how do you know?

ex
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by ex » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:05 am

people sleep in the arena.the arena is heated.never less there is advised from rse to be considerate and not to attend an event if you r sick. puts blue body healing in its place. there is frogquak with subliminals all night. you can buy the CD in the store to play them all night at home. what many hardcore ramsters do.

freemysoul
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by freemysoul » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:23 pm

The list is a compilation of affirmations: I live for 200 years and beyond, I am my greater mind, etc, etc. It is another way for RSE/JZ to twist peoples minds into believing that they are beyond the 'common folk', better than the 'herd' and above the 'simple minded social conscious' non believers. Still to this day, I catch myself starting my mornings with that old ridiculous routine that kept me spinning my wheels, and have to clear out that old garbage with a cup of coffee and the realization that I am no longer tied to that wretched horse shit. I can finally think for myself and don't have to beat myself up for not being perfect.
More importantly, on a cold clear night, the winter skies here in Washington are gorgeous this time of year. :-)

Lost in Space
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:28 pm

Thanks for explanations, Ex and Freemysoul. At least they are positive affirmations, and not "you are worthless", "you are just a speck", "you are feeble"....
Am trying to comfort myself about the fact that my friend is probably headed for the Ranch right now. Maybe there is a good view of the stars from the field?

Another Dimension60
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:55 pm

is there any way of proving exactly what subliminals are on the tape played and sold by RSE?
And as someone else asked - what does the frequency thing do to a person?

ex
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by ex » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:54 pm

the affirmations r part of jzs brainwash scam. like all her disciplines they r targeted to take your personalty down and recreate a new "higher self" modeled by jz knight. of course there r obvious positives otherwise nobody would agree to go through this process. jz hides her scam in plain sight. the affirmations r somewhere here on the board. after the beginner week it is mostly decided if a person goes for it. would be interesting to know what the percentage of the real newbies who stay after a beginning retreat. a other trick for the beginner is to get current students in to power up enthusiasm and create the group feel were you want to belong to. current students can come for 200 bucks instead of the 1200? the price you pai for your personal improvement is loots of $$$$ and the personal disorders we talk here about. according to jzk we here r the ones which failed to become a 'master'. all the rest of the population chooses to stay 'ignorant'. only her superior crop will make it through the dayes which r here. any other cult which promises survival and paradise? the only positive i see in this is that getting out of this dident kill me, so it must have made me stronger.

ex
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by ex » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:03 pm

to get this into a person:[quote]"you are worthless", "you are just a speck", "you are feeble"...[/quote] if you r not doing as jzr said. that's the job of the generals and the drill sargents. also part of the rse program.

curiouser&curiouser
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by curiouser&curiouser » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:04 pm

ex wrote:what do elf generators do? how can you recognize them? r the effects reaching farther than the arena? how do you know?
As for the "how do you know" part of the question: a few years ago someone I know was doing some maintance at the ranch and he saw these large black electronic machines in a back room off the arena. He was suspicious of what they were and when he asked a staff member he was told that they were low frequency generators.

Now, as for what they do: I will include a link, but for the most part extremely low frequency is a radio wave that is used primarily in communication. It has been speculated that exposure to this radiation could pose serious threats to health, but it was determined that it was not a "sufficiant" enough threat to lower the qualitative standard for use of ELF. However, these radio waves can cause things like; a high or euphoric feeling, extreme suseptability to suggestion and can simulate the effects of drugs like heroin and LSD. Therefore, yes, I would imagine that the effects do reach farther than the arena in that the effect on the body does not stop simply because you step out of its range.

http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/pub ... 1759.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency

Now this begs the question: why would a place that claims to be raising the consciousness of its members need these machines? Huh.........
I wear the cheese, it does not wear me. ~Buffy

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Robair
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Robair » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:46 pm

Hello guys
This is interesting during the early 90s ,ELF was consider part of the conspiracy the ranch was promothing, the idea was that it can prenatrate via a very small hole and was one of the reason that copper was rampant in and use in UGs and also in houses.We use to have copper fabric copper paint copper foil,capes was made with, also the lnining of our hats to protect us from ELF and many other waves.
For someone from the old days to accept that,would really show the level of programation that going on there,and also the lack of memory.
Oldone
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

Lost in Space
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Lost in Space » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:40 am

Guess my science background is sadly lacking - but surely, if ELFs produce these effects, shrinks would have jumped at the chance to alleviate their patients' symptoms of malaise and depression, and addiction counsellors would be touting their benefits in giving addicts an alternative to harmful drugs, as a means of easing withdrawal, sort of a "natural high". Come to think of it, jogging can produce the same effect. But then, it says in the Wikki article that ELFs, or at least EMWs (Electro Magnetic Waves) can cause cancer, or are believe to be linked to it (like virtually everything else in the modern world). And, good question, Oldone - why, if in the 90s the school was urging students to protect themselves from ELFs, would they recently begin deploying them in the arena??? Perhaps these inconsistencies are a good thing from the point of view of EMF - more people will notice, and leave.

Another Dimension60
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:40 am

thank you all for your replies.
nevertheless i ask again - is there proof as to exactly what is spoken in the subliminal "List"? I understand what it's claimed to be -- And, I do believe, unfortunately, that subliminals work. So if the List is what it's claimed and if subliminals work, then why aren't all the long term listen to the List everynight people extra-ordinarily healthy, wealthy and wise?

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David McCarthy
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Covert Hypnosis and Mind Control at RSE

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:21 am

hey Oldone.. this EMF mob is way outta control ....
Now I'm also guilty to wandering "off topic" from WofthesunEofthemoon lovely "Constellations" thread!..:D
So if the List is what it's claimed and if subliminals work, then why aren't all the long term listen to the List everynight people extra-ordinarily healthy, wealthy and wise?
I'm with AD60 on this one,
I think all the "subliminal stuff at RSE is "Red Herrring woo woo juice" that Judith concocted to make a fortune selling tapes!
But in saying that....
I also believe the "RSE subliminals" used as directed by "Ramtha" does undermine critical thinking ... :shock:
listening to those frogs chirpings all night long, night after night..... can drive a person crazy.
a few years ago someone I know was doing some maintance at the ranch and he saw these large black electronic machines in a back room off the arena.
Hi C&C. everyone..
Could it be...what they saw looked something like this?.....
Your Go-to Sub When You Need Thundering Lows!
JBL PRX618SXLF | Sweetwater.com
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRX618SXLF/
Extra Low Frequency Waves (ELF} is defiantly used at RSE, the blasting out hypnotic ELF imbedded music is an example..
This induces a group high and "numbing of the mind" very effective when used before "ramtha" enters the arena
How many of us can bear listening to the "Ranch music" that we soooo loved at one time?
This was all deliberately and meticulously rehearsed "trigger music"!

What say you Debbie?
The Muse is not Amused..... :twisted:

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:15 pm

Hi, All,

David: "this EMF mob is way outta control..." LOLOL :lol: No worries, David. I have been itching to ask C&C what he/she meant by the ELF generators at RSE, anyway. As to the subliminal stuff, I completely agree with AD60 that it does work, in that many years ago I had some custom-made subliminal tapes produced for myself and my clients by a company that is no longer in business. They were devoted to such things as self-confidence building, stopping smokingr, etc. Of course, I tried them all out on myself, first, many times, to ensure that they were safe. (Yup, I even gave up smoking, for quite a long time.) :oops:

When my son was in his late 20's he was a bit of a 'boy-racer', with a car to match. He also had it kitted out with powerful subwoofers, speakers which resonated deeply with the structure of his beloved Astra car. I warned him that one day the music would shake his car apart. :lol: :lol: Additionally, when taking a ride with him, one would risk life and limb, and not because of the 'boy-racer' bit. :shock: The subwoofers, when in operation, would vibrate your very bones and rattle the teeth in your head!! :D

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:23 pm

Sorry, folks, didn't finish what I was going to say re. subliminal recordings. AD60 made the very important point that nobody really knows exactly what messages are embedded with the froggy 'ribbits', do they? They could be anything from 'Give us your money' to 'I will bring you down!'

hidesert
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by hidesert » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:44 pm

yeah- that was something I always wondered with the subliminals.....do they actually have on them what is marketed? One interesting note, a while back, I was staying with my boyfriend and had just put on "the list" to play and my boy friend came out of the bed room saying "turn that off!"... It took me quite by surprised as I have not seen him react like with adversion like that before ( he was not a student of RSE).....don't know exactly what is was about the cd that created such an adversive reaction in him, but it was one of the many things that got me to thinking about RSE.
Good point AD......why aren't the ramsters masters after devoted listening :shock: ? Poor JZ....30 years and still no one can make it to the top of the class

ex
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by ex » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:08 am

who knows if the subs in the ribbits on the ranch the same as on the to buy cd.

Kensho
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Kensho » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:16 pm

What is claimed by RSE to be on the subliminal croaking frogs CD? Here it is again from the insert included with the CD.

1. I am Christ consciousness realized.
2. I am filled with vital energy.
3. I am my deeper mind
4. I am the mind of god.
5. The father and I are one.
6. I am the power of God; I am God.
7. I am the all-wise knowing intelligence.
8. I am awakened.
9. I am enlightened.
10. My consciousness is expanded.
11. I am unlimited mind.
12. My brain is open.
13. I am one with all life.
14. I am joy.
15. I am love.
16. I see the good in all people and in all things.
17. I love unconditionally myself and all things.
18. I am worthy.
19. I am understanding.
20 I am righteous.
21. My greater mind appeared.
22. I am immortal.
23. I do unto others as I would have them do unto me.
24. I am everything a master is.
25. I am complete freedom.
26. I am my own power.
27. I take responsibility for my life.
28. I am impeccable.
29. I am moral.
30. I am fearless.
31. I am humble.
32. My psychic abilities are fully developed.
33. I know the thoughts of others.
34. I can see things others do not.
35. I know the future and make my choices accordingly.
36. I am precognitive.
37. I have teleportation ability.
38. I leave my body regularly and remember the journey.
39. I slumber in twilight.
40. I am a lucid dreamer.
41. My dreams are vivid and lucid.
42. I remember my dreams.
43. I control my actions in my dreams.
44. I dream of other dimensions.
45. I dream past life experiences.
46. I dream future experiences.
47. My god talks to me in the dream state.
48. I travel dimensionally.
49. I can fly.
50. I respect myself.
51. I respect others.
52. BLANK? Nothing listed.
53. I see in full view my radiant body.
54. I see the Ram's radiant body.
55. I see clearly the energy fields of every individual.
56. Every day my joy grows.
57. I live in the now.
58. I am point zero.
59. I have visions of the golden plane of paradise.
60. I go to the Ram's house.
61. I remember my life with Ramtha.
62. I remember all that Ramtha has taught me in his life time.
63. I remember. I remember. I remember.
64. I am a time traveler.
65. I commune with great beings.
66. I have made contact with the entity behind the door.
67. My book of life is open and I remember.
68. I remember my past lives.
69. I remember my future.
70. I am fabulous imagination.
71. I visualize easily and dimensionally.
72. What I imagine is real.
73. What I imagine is my primary reality.
74. I am an alchemist.
75. I have the power to create my life the way that I want it to be.
76. I can create anything that I want.
77. My manifestations come quickly.
78. I effect change. I am prepared for change.
79. I accept change in my life.
80. I release and let go of the past.
81. I live in the present.
82. I am evolved in my attitude.
83. I master my habits.
84. Every day in every way I am getting better and better.
85. My passion is awe-inspiring.
86. I am self-inspiration.
87. My talents surface and flow easily.
88. My creativity flows easily.
89. I am genius mind.
90. I am blue body (TM)
91. I can address my blue body (tm) at will.
92. I am Shiva the destroyer.
93. I am master of twilight.
94. My unconscious impressions are realized.
95. My reticular activating system is clear.
96. I have the ability to raise my frequency at will.
97. I am the master of energy movement.
98. I am master of focus.
99. My power of concentration has increased.
100. I can move objects with my mind.
101. I walk through walls.
102. I accomplish the labyrinth.
103. I move beyond the room of my personal doubt and disbelief.
104. I am a healer.
105. God flows through me in oneness.
106. Those I touch are healed.
107. I am master of remote view.
108. I trust my impressions.
109. My knowingness is.
110. I am master of manifesting objects in my hand.
111. I am master of the dance.
112. I am master of the field.
113. I find my cards on the fence.
114. I can feel color.
115. I can see frequency.
116. I am greater than my body.
117. I am greater than my genetic programming.
118. I am transmuted; I cease to age.
119 I am vibrant in my being.
120. I possess tenacity.
121. I encompass great stamina.
122. My body is strong and powerful.
123. My body reflects perfection.
124. My body functions at its optimum.
125. I am radiant health and vitality.
126. My immune system is functioning at its optimum level.
127. My body is healed and restored.]
128. My body is ten years younger.
129. My body is twenty years younger.
130. I am lifted.
131. I labor in great joy.
132. I am utter abundance.
133. My fabulous wealth came.
134. I am sovereign; all my debts are paid.
135. My pantry is full; I am abundant.
136. Everything I want I get.
137. All that I hoped to have I got.
138. I am unlimited wealth and abundance.
139. My cup runneth over.
140. I am fulfilled.
141. I am sovereign on all levels.
142. I transcend the limitation of my personal doubt and disbelief.
143. I am forgiven and born anew.
144. I know what I want.
145. I am decisive.
146. I am protected.
147. I survived the world changes.
148. I live in superconsciousness.
149. I am one of the radical few.
150. I am everything Ramtha is.
151. I enfold into the netherworld.
152. I am peace.
153. I surrender unto my soul's journey and destiny.

There is no Number 52...the printed insert goes from 51 to 53.

Numbers 72 & 73 encompass the delusionary mind set that is promoted at RSE.
72. What I imagine is real.
73. What I imagine is my primary reality.

The following excerpts are of great concern for they may set the stage for acceptance of brainwashing/reprogramming; and thus the potential suggestion of suicide, self harm and/or abuse to be carried out without question.
12. My brain is open.
22. I am immortal.
58. I am point zero.
59. I have visions of the golden plane of paradise.
60. I go to the Ram's house.
80. I release and let go of the past.
94. My unconscious impressions are realized.
103. I move beyond the room of my personal doubt and disbelief.
116. I am greater than my body.
142. I transcend the limitation of my personal doubt and disbelief.
149. I am one of the radical few.
150. I am everything Ramtha is.
151. I enfold into the netherworld.
152. I am peace.
153. I surrender unto my soul's journey and destiny.

May there be a positive, compassionate and peaceful end to RSE's negative influence in everyone's life.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

joe sz
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by joe sz » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:37 pm

thanks for posting the subliminal "ribbit" list, KL

I see how readily JZ and her crew have fallen into basic New Thought patterns. The idea behind new thought and the 'science of mind' movements is that thought itself conditions reality, and not only personal reality but thought with intention can change another's reality.
Imagine that.
When I was with the CUT cult, that was also steeped in New Thought as well as Theosophy, we used silent decrees [ribbit affirmations] and spoken decrees [rapid and loud ribbits] to change reality 'according to the will of the godself (the Magic Presence) or the gods. We believed we could manipulate specifically colored "rays" of energy that the mind and heart could direct like cosmic lazer beams into human affairs. We called it "the science of the spoken word."

I've come to see this as a persistent and childish human instinct to use magic to change the world, cast spells, exercise thought control over the environment, peek into the future, and imagine that we become invisible whenever we place our hands over our eyes. Nearly every religion has members and sub-movements who view prayer and ritual in this magical, pseudo-mystical light, so i am not merely criticizing so-called cults. My main criticism is that cults like CUT and RSE promote childish magic as real and the norm whereas you will find extreme caution in this area within the teachings of major religions.

I like your point that all these affirmations can amount to hypnotic self-suggestion and feeds into the 'brainwashing' effort by the RSE.

Kensho
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by Kensho » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:37 am

Thanks for your input Joe,

Your quote "...the norm whereas you will find extreme caution in this area within the teachings of major religions." is an especially important point and thanks for bringing that forward.

In Buddhism, in no way are practices ever to be undertaken as a means to alter relative reality through a belief in magic, to cultivate super-natural powers or to feed the ego-clinging superstitious mentality. In addition, most practices require that the practitioner complete required preparatory practices before hand and only engage in the practices under the careful guidance and supervision of fully qualified teachers and practice instructors. This is to protect individuals from becoming deluded into believing imagined experiences or from distorting perceptions through contrived thought (wishful thinking).
It is well known and understood that the exploration and realization of one's own mind can be very tricky; and for many it is sincerely undertaken as a life's work, which at times culminates in the often brutal facing of one's own truth; along with the self-deceptions, confusions and delusions of the mind.

Those who intentionally distort or program the perceptions of the minds' of others for their own selfish purposes, so that their followers cultivate in their minds the means to deliver them to the very sufferings from which they seek liberation, is such an all pervasive form of abuse that it defies the imagination and certainly verbal description.
No so called enlightened being could or would engage in such activities; which leaves us to ponder the questions, what exactly is the driving force behind such activity and how does one effectively intervene on behalf of the victims?

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:01 pm

"Silent decrees (ribbit affirmations) and spoken decrees (rapid and loud ribbits)" ROFLOL, Joe. So apt. Although I was not a member of CUT, the organisation I belonged to taught us to 'heal' etc, using white light and coloured rays of energy. I remember it well. Only when studying psychology did I understand the possiblity that, as adults, we still retain all the capacity of children to believe in 'magical thinking', which does not make it true, simply because we are adults. We may not believe that we are displaying childlike attributes whilst indulging in such beliefs, and that makes it very difficult for some people to 'wake-up'.

[quote=Thanks for your input Joe,

Your quote "...the norm whereas you will find extreme caution in this area within the teachings of major religions." is an especially important point and thanks for bringing that forward.

In Buddhism, in no way are practices ever to be undertaken as a means to alter relative reality through a belief in magic, to cultivate super-natural powers or to feed the ego-clinging superstitious mentality. In addition, most practices require that the practitioner complete required preparatory practices before hand and only engage in the practices under the careful guidance and supervision of fully qualified teachers and practice instructors. This is to protect individuals from becoming deluded into believing imagined experiences or from distorting perceptions through contrived thought (wishful thinking).
It is well known and understood that the exploration and realization of one's own mind can be very tricky; and for many it is sincerely undertaken as a life's work, which at times culminates in the often brutal facing of one's own truth; along with the self-deceptions, confusions and delusions of the mind.

Those who intentionally distort or program the perceptions of the minds' of others for their own selfish purposes, so that their followers cultivate in their minds the means to deliver them to the very sufferings from which they seek liberation, is such an all pervasive form of abuse that it defies the imagination and certainly verbal description.
No so called enlightened being could or would engage in such activities; which leaves us to ponder the questions, what exactly is the driving force behind such activity and how does one effectively intervene on behalf of the victims?

[/quote]

Thanks for making these extremely pertinent points, Kensho, which I deeply agree with.

W.E.

joe sz
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:52 pm

I had a colleague in the deprogramming field decades ago who had some brilliant if simple challenges to people who overvalued the power of prayer. He was a Vietnam vet that got caught up in a Bible cult for many years, then broke away with the help of an ex-member. Sadly, he died in the early 1990s [he suffered from PTSD, something I witnessed full on when sharing a room with him on cases--he'd often yell or stand up ready to fight "something or someone" in his sleep]. Anyway, "D" once challenged a cult member who belonged to a charismatic, apocalyptic Christian group that claimed to "move mountains" through prayer:

"You pray to God to raise this roof off this house and I will pray to keep it right where it is. Let's see who wins!"

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Constellations

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:56 pm

Good example, Joe. Sorry to hear about how hard the consequences of war were on your colleague, though. As a small child I was aware that there were many men, recently home after WWII who suffered this way, my father included.

LiS, re. proof-reading, I am sure you are right, but, you know those naughty little error fellas still keep sneaking on through! :shock: :lol:

W.E.

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Re: Constellations

Unread post by joe sz » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:33 pm

W.E.
"Silent decrees (ribbit affirmations) and spoken decrees (rapid and loud ribbits)" ROFLOL, Joe. So apt. Although I was not a member of CUT, the organisation I belonged to taught us to 'heal' etc, using white light and coloured rays of energy. I remember it well. Only when studying psychology did I understand the possiblity that, as adults, we still retain all the capacity of children to believe in 'magical thinking', which does not make it true, simply because we are adults. We may not believe that we are displaying childlike attributes whilst indulging in such beliefs, and that makes it very difficult for some people to 'wake-up'.
For those who believe in a traditional God or 'Ground of Being' that attracts the creation back to Itself, it is easy to see why some magical thinking and New Thought affirmations seem to work. If a God operated according to rules or laws that are of the very nature of God, and this God is super-intelligent and loving, then as a divine parent [Father], God can sort out intent and value of witchy spells, affirmation, prayer, wishes, sympathetic magic and simple requests quite readily.

We imitate this God when we answer notes from our children to Santa Claus or Jesus or when a child pastes an affirmation to her ceiling to get her way/permission to have her navel pierced [my middle daughter actually did this at age 15. It took a year, but it "worked"].

A kid might ask Santa for a horse, but in our wisdom we offer under the Xmas tree instead a coupon for ten "free" riding lessons. Or, we might just go ahead and buy the kid a horse, put it in the backyard and say, "Go forth, child! Pet it, feed it, groom it, shoe it, board it, buy it a saddle, break it in, exercise it, pay for the vet bills, buy a shipping trailer for it, and find several hours a day when you must attend to it."

Or we as "God" or a judge [in ancient aramaic the word for gods 'elohim' was also used for human judges, thus Jesus saying "Ye are gods" meant in context ye are judges acting in the place of God.] might just ignore the affirmation or prayer because we judge it as stupid and we let the stubborn kid figure it out in time on their own.

A good discussion of 'ye are gods' is in the site below. This one line has caused enourmous and continual confusion among New Agers and Bible cult followers who take the saying too literally and not in proper context.
http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG ... e_Gods.htm

WofthesunEofthemoon
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:33 am

Re: Constellations

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:25 pm

Thanks, Joe and thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, which has been so interesting and informative.

W.E. :-)

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