Listen carefully to what Debbie and Kenny actually say in the introduction - it makes no sense, it is JZR babble. "Now I can see something, and go 'uh-huh', and self-correct it and it's not a big demon to fight" What the...??? That means NO-THING, Debbie! And relates to reading through cards, how exactly?
Seeing through cards. People don't need to come to a Ramtha retreat to learn this. Buy the Henry Sugar book and some candles and practice. This is human potential, certainly. But nothing that Ramtha brought to the world. And it is the ONLY discipline in 30 years that has produced people (now 3) who can do it consistently. None of Ramtha's discipline's have amounted to anything remarkable. The cards is the ONE discipline JZ hasn't figured out how to copyright.
Moving the poker chips...Kenny's hands are extremely close to the chips. Many videos on YouTube showing how to do telekinesis as a trick. Here's one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAxsmVndCVQ Maybe he's legit...but there are explanations for his current skill level.
Precognition with roulette...an unbelievably BAD example...no wonder Kenny isn't wealthy yet from roulette. This is what you'll see at ANY roulette table in a casino. How is this example supposed to be impressive? Kenny would have only barely won back his bets in this example given how long it took for him to get a hit...and that's assuming he would have bet money on his last guess (which he didn't in the video)
As said before many times on this forum... these skills are developed to what purpose? Come to RSE to learn how to make a living as a magician or side-show act.
And so sad...I know they must feel so proud to make Ramtha proud. And all JZR sees is cha-ching, cha-ching, money rolling in while she has a few more monkeys to parade around on a stage to persuade people she has something to offer.
Ding! Ding! Ding!And it is the ONLY discipline in 30 years that has produced people (now 3) who can do it consistently
she finally found one and is riding on the coattails of that.
uh, what was the saying in the tank? "ah, master, YOU are an opportunist!!"
Think about it. The ONE thing that works- and it was not even invented by JZ or Ramtha. And it has taken Debbie 5 years to do.
ok. so now what. The casino's might limit her to 2K a pop. In Vegas, hers and Kenny's face would be put up on the universal security alerts.
All casinos subsribe to that. now what? What is the big friggin' deal? Another 20 years for These 3 to produce some kind of help for
orphanages or Al Gore's campaign? I don't get it.
and upon further examing the videos, let's say just Joe Blow stumbles upon that link. There is absolutely no explanation as to what is going on in the videos or what is to be expected. Only if you are a current student do you know what is going to take place.
Imagine showing that to your sister-in-law in excitement: "THIS is why I go to RSE!!!"
sister-in-law : "uh......hm....okay......"
c'mon video dept and JZ. Get with the program here.
A little explaining might help in your campaign to win over more dollars.
They don't have to worry about the casinos, They should pay attention and apply for Randi's million dollars that he offers to anyone who can demonstrate such prowness. They better hurry though, he is stopping the offer in 2010!!!
I really don't know why Debbie nor Kenny nor the new person (well, she is only new to Yelm a few years) contact him.
They have a legitimate uh, skill that I don't think he can refute. And who in their right mind couldn't use a million bucks??
I just don't know the point of being able to read cards without including the whole moral dilemmas and lessons learned in
The Story of Henry Sugar.
If Debbie's and Kenny's reasoning goes along the lines of "we don't have to be rich to be masters", well,
take a look at JZ! She preaches austerity and meagerness and humbleness as a way to god, but she herself
has taken the richer road. (Do as I say, not as I do approach).
I mean really, I am sure Kenny would rather read the numbers than sling a hammer all day (which I heard he has done).
But to be able to have this ability and not really want to draw attention to themselves..... both of them are very humble people,
and I can see them both saying that.....
but...... as someone else said , "They are jz's monkey's."
What I think students should be demanding is JZ show her prowess in ALL the disciplines. Period.
Come out. Not just let "Ramtha" tell a story about "his daughteren" in the tank "achieving" and finding her card on end.
Put JZ out there like they did Grandmother, and Debbie, and Kenny.
THEN, she as "Ramtha" can chastise the students for not trying hard enough or not being dedicated enough.
Students don't demand this because they are afraid of the wizard behind the curtain who can't really do diddly.
I think there is much better classes to learn parlor tricks... these aren't even good ones.
I think it is well beyond money-hungry for JZ... she is as brainwashed with the power (that the students give her) as the students are of the idealism.
You are such a hoot ! JZ ought to have you and your ideas as her ad agent and marketing manager !!! I can see it now, "Channeler uses talents of her students to triple her bank account !" She markets the teachings, takes full credits and gets even more money that she doesn't even need.
Having said that, I would never believe anyone who said they could do these parlour tricks unless they did them in my parlour under my conditions. Noone has been able to take up Randi's challenge and if you read his website it is so funny to read how people want to control the conditions under which they are prepared to perform their tricks. Remember Uri Geller he had the whole world convinced he could bend spoons with his mind but as we all know now he was just an illusionist.
I have heard a criticism about Randi, though I don't know if it's factual or just a rumor. I knew more details when I heard about it (over a year ago), so I don't now recall details. I heard that folks have taken him up on his challenge and "passed", but he negates them and doesn't/won't pay the money. I haven't researched further to find out if it's true, largely because I haven't feel motivate to do so. Though, I do have a general curiousity about it.
I just think with Debbie and Kenny, you have to be there. They both are very humble people, even shy to a degree. I didn't get the feel either of them liked the spotlight jzrk was placing them in. I'd also guess that some of you exer's have also seen through a card or two, so it's not a big deal if you wish to devote your days to it...and I certainly do not!
Same with that Kenny. I am not as familiar with roulette as with cards, but the game can be rigged, that I am sure of. There is nothing mystical here. He is just moving the indoctrination from "You maybe able to..." to "With these powers, you CAN"....
PS. My bullshit meter broke...
You may believe in these, and it is understandable considering the subversion that has lead up to faithfully not questioning. These are just my observations as a person who has not been to the school, and I allow my skepticism its proper place.
I have personally seen Debbie read through the cards.
I have personally read through the cards.
My whole point is, so what? What now?
I just don't care for JZ touting these things to promote her silly school that doesn't work.
She found one story that three people "mastered" and is running with that.
NONE of the other "disciplines" that were made up by "Ramtha" fricking work. People are dead.
So, Kenny doesn't have to swing a hammer anymore. I am happy for him. He still has to put food
on the table (as it isn't "manifesting" from some other "dicsiplne" yet! LOL!)
For JZ to use these humble people in this way just goes to show how much she really cares about them.
After all, if she really cared about the past abuses/rapes at the school, a kind soul would have
at least done a modicum of follow-up, and NOT with a lawyer to see, if in fact, these nice people
who attend her school are ok.
I am, after all, amazed she hasn't thrown either of them out on their ear yet.
How she is navigating these waters where she was once such a shark is pretty amazing.
Maybe the red and black in the accounting department is having some influence ( -we can only hope!)
What? stage a huge thing on Oprah or Larry King?
And then what?
more people Google RSE and find EMF??????!!!
God, I hope so.
People: just read the story of Henry Sugar. It CAN be done.
Just avoid spending thousands of dollars and 20 years of your life in some little cult in Yelm, WA.
Save yourself the grief.
I remembered a story this morning from Debbie Christie sharing at a Blue College retreat.
In the story of Henry Sugar, the guy whole who develops the capability to read through the cards at first is elated and then goes through a crisis precisely because of the "so what" factor. It takes a friend to help him find something meaningful to do with his skill (build orphanages around the world).
I'm genuinely concerned for Kenny, Debbie and everyone else in that they have no friend to guide them, they have an opportunist making them into a side-show for her personal benefit of fame, power and money.
Anyway, the story... Debbie was talking about the unexpected side effects of the card work. She said Ramtha asked her about this. Very clever, JZ - find out what else you can take credit for. Debbie told Ramtha that she saw a torsion field or wormhole opening up in an area of the arena. The shocking thing to me, even at the time as a "believer", was that Ramtha's response was "Whoa......." - like "Cool...oops.....wonder what that's about" And then Ramtha never offered an explanation for that phenomena in later teachings.
So who knows what is happening in Debbie's brain that JZR has no idea about! Just keep pushing these people JZ - and if Debbie has a shizophrenic breakdown at some point...just say "Whoa.....look at that...who new?"
1) if this were to happen ( and I would most certainly bet my last dollar on it ) she and the whole incident would have someSo who knows what is happening in Debbie's brain that JZR has no idea about! Just keep pushing these people JZ - and if Debbie has a shizophrenic breakdown at some point...
massive spin put on it.
no different than Mike Wright's breakdown several years ago.
"Debbie is off studying remotely on an island by herself to further master these skills." um....ok.
2) NO ONE completely knows what is happening in JZ's brain/mind (although my therapist would love to work with a sociopath. How often does THAT come around in a professional's lifetime? Think Silence of the Lambs )
and NO ONE knows what happens in each of those RSE students' brains either. Which is pretty scary considering several who come
INTO RSE are a tad off square to begin with.
3) to hear Debbie say that "these things have given me up, I did not have to give them up" only shows me that some serious
re-wiring of the brain is occuring, and NOT the all benevolent, all loving, all masterful kind that is touted at RSE-although, most, if
not all students believe that this is occuring because they have been TOLD that.
But as everyone else said, even if they have a talent for "seeing through cards" -- it somehow sounds more exotic when phrased that way instead of just "picking the right card" doesn't it?? -- who cares? If that is all you have to show for going through YEARS of disciplines and money, than it is truly a waste of time, energy and your space on this earth.
You have mentioned something here that I feel is important. Instead of expanding ones abilities, RSE simply displaces their capacity on many different and for some virtually all fronts and replaces them with things that suit their own agenda$$$Perhaps I am short-sighted on what really matters. With your insights, I am now seeing all the time these people spent on their disciplines and everything else the school has them do --- all of that time, being unavailable to their loved ones.
in RSE, one is taught that they are "greater than their emotional body"what is life without love and closeness?
meaning, to an RSE student, emotions are not really "good" and desireable things.
[so then, subconciously, add guilt to the mix]
If one has an emotional outburst of any
kind, they relegate the logic to : "I was in my emotional body at that moment.
So I just downed a few glasses of wine, and now all is well." poof.
I am no longer emotional , I have no need or desire for emotions, and I am now onto creating my next moment.
Their critical thinking is not there, so love and closeness has an altogether different ...um.....
well, to be a master is to be "above" needing or desiring these things.
So I can intimate from Debbie's intro in the spectacular student section that,
"these things left her. She did not leave them."
sad state of affairs.
Can you come up with fun things to do outside your partners involvement with the school, we go away a lot together (leave my children with Grandma or their Dad), tropical islands, scuba diving, really great things that are so lovely you dont want to do disciplines. On weekends we will often visit a winery for lunch with family and friends, I have found that if you present your partner with good alternatives its hard to focus on the school. Of course as I said it helps enormously that we live in Australia and not around the corner.