I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed...?

Many experiences have happened during these techniques, known as disciplines, at RSE. People have been hurt physically, emotionally, and otherwise. Post your experiences.
California Dreamin'
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I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed...?

Unread post by California Dreamin' » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:42 pm

Sad Grandfather -

As I reflected on your post, I believe that one of the first indications for me that I had begun my journey out of RSE was during a wine ceremony at which "Ramtha" drunkenly rambled on until at least 5 a.m. and I could no longer keep my eyes open. For the first time ever, I left the audience and went back to my tent and went to sleep. NEVER BEFORE would I have done this, as even at that time I considered the act of leaving the audience to be very disrespectful.

Later, perhaps at that same event, it was another late and drunken evening when we all had to find our way back to our individual tents blindfolded in order to rest. It was very very late at night, rainy, and muddy, and I made the decision to "peak" when I felt I was close to my tent so that I wouldn't have to walk around all night in drunken confusion looking for my tent. (FYI, Grandfather, there were events when students couldn't find their tents and ended up sleeping outside in the mud and cold all night.) If I had been caught by a red guard taking that 5-second peak, I would have been thrown out of the event and shamed greatly.

At the next event, as soon as I got there I realized I didn't want to be there anymore for a myriad of reasons including all of the doom and gloom prophecies that permeated the consciousness of the school, and also because I was slacking off on my desire to do all of the disciplines. I think that once I "broke my integrity" and peaked to find my tent, the fanatical bubble that I was living in was burst and that was the beginning of the end of my tenure at the school. I had given myself permission to make a decision on my own IN SPITE of vows that I made to myself about staying in the school, and I never went back.

It took several events and months before I attended my last event, so your daughter may have some internal struggles to process before she leaves. Sounds like she is already doubting herself. Be patient. That's all you can be at this time.

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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:13 pm

P.S. I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed."
This is correct.

:cry:
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:06 pm

Quote:

P.S. I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed."



This is correct.
what a surprise.
She has been dumped and the best way she knows how to deal is drink.
What a great time to be an old timer, reading EMF, and waiting for huge contradicting blunder.

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:42 pm

[quote]"P.S. I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed."
what a surprise.
She has been dumped and the best way she knows how to deal is drink.
What a great time to be an old timer, reading EMF, and waiting for huge contradicting blunder."[/quote]


I couldn't agree more. Alcoholics (and most who are so predisposed) naturally turn to alcohol when faced with such a life challenge as being "dumped." I don't think JZ Knight ever completed a 12-Step program. If she had, she wouldn't be drinking in public again or acting so unimpeccably. (Can you imagine being HER AA sponsor and reviewing the 4th step???????)

I think she is in for the roller coaster ride of her life, as all "eyes" are upon her now. She must be aware there is a group of people just waiting for her next mis-step. Her energy is getting frenetic, as the press, ex-lovers and EMF and others once loyal to her are no longer loyal.

Wakeup-Call
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Wine Ceremonies starting up again

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:11 am

Wine ceremonies - wow, only surprised that it took this long to get them going again.

Being dumped at the holidays - classic reason to turn to drinking.

But I'm not surprised at the Wine Ceremonies kicking in again. I'm sure the newbies hear enough stories from the old-timers about the "days of wine" that they are aching to get the experience. And then JZR can justify new rounds of "truth" teachings where Blue Body and anyone siding with him are lambasted. And, of course, I was thinking it takes another cycle of wine ceremonies to get new relationship hookups established and get some more babies in the making.

I think its great that JZ is so desperate and challenged to come up with something to keep people coming back. She's got huge competition now from teachers who cover the same territory for less money and who are more accessible (e.g., the people who appeared on The Secret). And these folks come across grounded and normal - they aren't channelling.

Kryptonite
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Re: Wine Ceremonies starting up again

Unread post by Kryptonite » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:54 am

They are going strong. Looking at my partners notebook from last event... the wine ceremony notes started out legible then rapidly deteriorated into illegible scrawl. Wine was spilled on the pages making it even more obscene. When asked why would you put yourself through something like that, response was that the wine ceremonies are wonderful. When pressed a bit more as to why... there was no recollection of the ceremony and the question could not be answered. Hmmmmmm... to me, black out drunk does not equal spiritual growth. But then again, I'm sure I do not have the entire understanding of the reasons behind everything since I have never been to the school.

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Unread post by Tree » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:17 pm

Kryptonite-
While in RSE and during the wine ceremonies,
I was absolutely convinced I was "drinking with a God"
and that with each "initiation" we were told they were the equivalent of 7 years of therapy.
And I believed it. Sincerely.
I had plenty of wine ceremonies I could not remember, but I did take good notes.
Not that they really made any sense reading them the next day. :roll:
But I TRULY TRULY thought I was enlightened and being enlightened.

Now, on the outside,
I see how totally ridiculous it all really is.
It is almost laughable.
And even harder to believe that people actually believe that crap.
Had I not experienced all those wine ceremonies for over ten + years,
I would have never believed people were so deluded.
It blows my mind to think I actually thought those things.
It is so plainly ridiculous.

ordinarymind
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Unread post by ordinarymind » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:46 pm

Well, I too have my share of wine-splattered notes! ?.and I must admit, I enjoyed the wine ceremonies in the beginning ?they felt very freeing ?and, yep, I thought I was evolving, making new dendrite connections, opening up new neighbourhoods in my brain, receiving the teaching beyond words . .. ..remember that promise ?.?one day there will be a teaching with no words? ?

And then .. . something shifted . ?drastically . . .and suddenly there were these appalling ?truth? teachings and long rambling from Rambles about pedophilia that went on and on and on ?.I walked out on that teaching ?.and the next day my ?neighbour? told me I probably needed to hear it . ..it probably triggered a memory of a past lifetime that I couldn?t face was what she said ?.and so I did try to listen that night but it was so damn incoherent . .. there was Rambles on the stage and bigger than life on those screens ?.I remember once drinking so much wine I was seeing double . ..and seeing double faces of Rambles on 2 big screens was . ..well, you fill in the blank!

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:17 pm

nd the next day my ?neighbour? told me I probably needed to hear it . ..it probably triggered a memory of a past lifetime that I couldn?t face was what she said
this is SOO classic.
I am sure there is a proper medical cult terminology for this
but
from my experience,
if you told your neighbor or friend ANYTHING that you deviated from
as far as instructions, disciplines or teachings were concerned,
they would ALWAYS answer with some kind of answer like this to real
you back in, you baad baad wandering sheep. :roll:

Near the end of my tenure,
I did my disciplines less and less.
For instance deciding at first, not to "create my day."
Of course, I was loaded with guilt.
But I thought, I would try this approach, as having done them
every day for over 15 years was not getting any noticeable results
(yes, day to day little normal miracles, but no massive amounts
of money for fabulous wealth, or some other HUGE "manifestation.")
And I told no one about this.
By this time, the "friends" that I had seem to all be retreating into their selves as well.
Looking back, I would hardly call this a group of "friends" in the common social understanding.
(Probably a whole nother thread here. "Friends" in cults-what they really were inside the group
vs what friends are on the outside of a group).
We just gathered,
every group of peas or carrots
once in while just for fun.
Not really any meaningful exchanges, except maybe
in sharing notes the next morning after a wine ceremony
because no one remembered much of anything
and the one who took the best notes was sought after!
' What one-liner did I miss that might make me miss the
next boat to ascension?'

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G2G
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Unread post by G2G » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:49 pm

""What one-liner did I miss that might make me miss the
next boat to ascension?'""

Don't drink and swim.
:wink:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:17 am

it is true; we were told countless times that "we need to hear it", or "harsh words? someone has to say them to you." both comments were clear messages that rambles knows more than we do, and more specifically, knows more about US than we do ! (not) so the dedicated student does not question the ram, but is humble before him/her, following direction, or deferring to his cosmic wisdom about what "you needed to hear", instead of asking oneself what could possibly justify the "talking to" a student would get that would be so harsh as to cause shame, embarrassment, guilt, and all manner of negative feelings about oneself. in the name of "loving you into life" and "telling you whatever it takes, including lying to you, to get you to go home."

yup. s/he's right. i did GO HOME. just not the way the student typically perceives "one fine morn" to be.

it's interesting, the comment about how (tree) started to detach from the dedicated ritual of doing less and less daily disciplines when the end was in sight. i did the same thing. i suspect that is a fairly common reaction to the internal decision making process going on, as well as just plain old watching all around yourself, at an event, when you know your time there is going off the clock soon. (no pun intended) at risk of sounding like a broken record, i just have to say that in the book, "take back your life", the authors do talk about mentally and emotionally disengaging from a cult, for up to two years before physically leaving. i know it was true for me. especially the last year. i progressed from not doing disciplines at home, to "hiding" in my RV during disciplines at the ranch. it was, as perhaps only those who have attended can understand fully, healing for me to refuse to PARTICIPATE ! (EGADS), and just go sit in my RV and talk to hubby on my cell phone, or read a book, take a nap...or work on my LIST of "pros and cons" of staying in this stupid place (rse).

i agree...it would be a good topic to explore....the pre-leaving thoughts, behaviors, actions, emotions and decisions that go on inside of us, before we've reached the point of attending Our Last Event; GRADUATION !!! one fine morn.

you KNOW. you do not need jz and/or rambling to evolve.

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Unread post by G2G » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:56 am

"""or deferring to his cosmic wisdom"""

More akin to "comic" wisdom! - were it not so sad! :cry:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:25 pm

WHATCHA said: "It's interesting, the comment about how (tree) started to detach from the dedicated ritual of doing less and less daily disciplines when the end was in sight. i did the same thing. i suspect that is a fairly common reaction to the internal decision making process going on, as well as just plain old watching all around yourself, at an event, when you know your time there is going off the clock soon. "


I believe the daily consistent practice of doing (at least) c & e and other disciplines tends to "lock & tie" one into the school. The daily time investment and habit helps assure that the teachings ( :roll:) remain in the forefront of one's thoughts and become the foundation point from which the remainder of your day is experienced. The mandate to do the teachings daily results in another form of a hook keeping you at RSE.

Fortunately for some of us, we reached a saturation point at which time clarity begins to emerge and critical thinking returns.

ex
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Unread post by ex » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:54 pm

as a hook in your flesh to avoid leaving rse contemplate the function of a 50000$ and up investment of a ug.c&e alcohol the dissciplins are the brainwashtechnics.

Marie
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Unread post by Marie » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:19 pm

dissciplins are the brainwashtechnics
Exactly -- I remember eight years ago when my mother was just starting to become involved, my sister telling ME, "you HAVE to make sure she does her disciplines in order for this work." My mother really wasn't that gung ho until she started doing the disciplines daily. Once she retired and did them all day long, well, now she lives in Yelm.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:42 pm

" P.S. I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed." "


At the first wine ceremony, we were told that everyone must drink wine or they had to leave the event. This applied equally to recovering alcoholics. We were told that if we had "promised" anyone that we wouldn't drink, to disregard that promise. We were further cautioned never to promise to anyone anyTHING ever again, as the promise would hold us hostage.

We were also informed by Ramtha that if we drank "according to his instructions":

1) we would not get hooked on alcohol

and

2) we would NOT GAIN WEIGHT. (guess those 20 pounds I gained were actually 20 pounds of enlightenment.:( )

Marie
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Unread post by Marie » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:14 pm

) we would not get hooked on alcohol

and

2) we would NOT GAIN WEIGHT
Spoken like a true alcoholic!!

Alcohol may or may not be "the crack" that evenually propels my mother toward leaving. Our family is familiar with alcoholism -- another red flag, ding ding ding! -- and she will either become turned off completely by the part drinking plays in rse and the teachings, or she will succumb to the denial and convince herself "she can and always has been" able to drink safely. If that was truly something JZ Knight could deliver, she'd have more than just a thousand or so drunks paying her fees.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:12 pm

At the first wine ceremony, we were told that everyone must drink wine or they had to leave the event. This applied equally to recovering alcoholics.
this is so true.
I know a few recovering alcoholics who left school during this time and stuck to what they knew was the right thing for them.

I know a few who obeyed Ramtha and are still drunk to this day and justifying it all in the name of the great god Rambles.

I remember the very very first wine ceremony outside.
I happened to be inside the chained circle of drummers with only Rambles.
I will never ever forget the 80+ year old woman dangling over the rope that was used to sequester off the people
from the great Rambles. She was totally oblivious to everything and robert jones who was trying to keep her back away
from the group. I will never forget that woman. I felt so sorry for her.
AFter that ceremony and after witnessing this, I vowed to keep my tumbler under 4 oz.
Rambles had come up to her and had this poor old woman fill her beach tumbler ( at least 22 oz) to the rim and down it.
not once, but twice.
I just cannot fathom the mind that orders people to do such things.

just the Sociopath Next Door.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:17 pm

i just have to say that in the book, "take back your life", the authors do talk about mentally and emotionally disengaging from a cult, for up to two years before physically leaving.

hmmmm... I did not know this.

of course, I can only tell my tale from HIndsight.
I never once thought that I would never NOT go back. I thought I was just taking a breather
....until I stumbled upon this site.

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:19 am

TREE said: "I never once thought that I would never NOT go back. I thought I was just taking a breather
....until I stumbled upon this site."


My thoughts exactly. Prior to stumbling upon this website, I always entertained the idea of returning some day, even if just one event per year.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:12 am

Tree said, "Rambles had come up to her and had this poor old woman fill her beach tumbler ( at least 22 oz) to the rim and down it.
not once, but twice.
I just cannot fathom the mind that orders people to do such things.

just the Sociopath Next Door."


Wow. That's awful. Right when I was starting to think I'd heard it all on here. The cruelty rears its head again.

I'm so glad I'm out.


I'm so glad I'm out.


I AM (hahaha ... get the humor ? ) so glad I'm OUTTA THERE !

Jay
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Unread post by Jay » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:48 pm

I was driving behind a Ramster last week on Bald Hills Road. I know it was a Ramster because of the macabre fashion the truck was decorated in. I backed off when I noticed the Ramster swerving, weaving, and speeding up to 70 mph. At the intersection of Elbow Lake Road to Bald Hills, the truck suddenly careened from side to side, spun around in a complete 180, and went off into the ditch. It did not roll.

I parked my vehicle and waited to see if the drunks required assistance. In no less than 60 seconds, the drunks (there were two of them in the cab) put the truck in first gear, slogged out of the ditch, and took off down the road at hi-speed once again.

Yes, the wine ceremonies have resumed. Drive carefully.

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