Brainwashed to death?

Experiences with physical, mental and emotional forms of abuse by JZ Knight-Ramtha, RSE Staff, About student deaths.
Kelku
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:40 am

Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Kelku » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:12 am

How to dump any reasoning at the greatest costs-

It was a 'live' event some years ago in Europe. I was being a translation-trainee and was observed for the quality of my performance,
Some days into the event my arm started hurting while doing C&E.
After a day of increasing pain I mentioned it to the person who had a say about my recruitement and her reaction came right from the rse guidelines: A disapproving look and she found it necessary to point out what a victim I was by analysing that any time I had to prove my skills I would manifest some illness and suggested I should contemplate this victimisation.
I remember how much this affected me. I felt attacked as I considered myself as somebody rarely getting sick (which was true before rse) and I felt challenged to prove her wrong.
The pain grew stronger...
I knew the symptoms and what they were indicating, I am a professional nurse.
I came up with all kind of avoidance, silencing what my body and reasoning were telling me. Everybody was suggesting to do blue body and make a card and do a walk so on and so on.
Somehow I persevered until the event was over and was about to leave as quickly as possible to see a doctor. Meanwhile my arm had become bluish.

In the moment of departure we were told that the 'Ram' wanted to meet 'his' staff, so everybody squeezed into a small room.
I never had the opportunity before to be that close to 'him' and I remember my deep awe and the belief that I would receive some masterlike help.
We spent 8 hours in this little hotelroom with the ramtha-character and numerous more bottles of wine.
,... she never uttered one word to me in the whole session.

I went home, straight into the hospital and was diagnosed with a thrombosis, reaching from my elbow right into one of the neck veins. Because I came that late I couldn't receive the better and more effective treatment but only a much longer and less effective one.....
Parts of that vein are still clogged and will probably never open up again.
It's still a kinda happy ending, because worse things could have happened.

Today I can see the abnormity of my whole behaviour clearly.
I came up with all kinds of explanation about why the 'ram' didn talk to me in this situation.
This in hindsight is so sick...
How brainwashed was I, not to react to such symptoms, despite identifying them correctly?
How brainwashed was I to believe nothing could happen to me cause 'he' said so?
How brainwashed was I to afterwards blaming myself of not being worthy of getting any help from the 'masterteacher'?

I saw other people displaying similarly distorted ideas:

* frail old ladies pumping their wee bit of energy into C&E with their bodies almost collapsing.

* people with external fixators or crutches doing fieldwork

* pregnant women doing C&E, breathing like hell.....

* A dear old lady I knew for years, showed up with terminal cancer, she only had the weight of a small child and she travelled to an event far away from home and gave everything she had.......
To see her doing C&E made me cry.... wondering why she was not sitting in her garden enjoying her last days.... she died shortly after.

* Another friend was diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism and supposed to take the same medication I took for my arm.... he considered it dangerous and bad stuff (which is is, it's dangerous, but it can save lives) and said he'd heal himself and that the 'Ram' would help him.
The day he died I talked to him on the phone, he was really doing bad and I suggested treatment again, he thought he just needed sleep... He died a few hours later from the next embolism.

* I met students with hip dysplasia, limping for years, then suddenly showing up walking normally again and never admitting that they had a hip operation. So getting a hip operation obviously was a failure.

And I see RSE promoting all these healings students supposedly had.
There must be a counterbalance to this stories.

Students were dying because they thought they could heal themselves or the 'Ram' would help them,
This is sick mechanics at work.
I am embarrassed to have treated myself this badly.
I even wonder if I come along now as the whining victim .....
But that's just another programming. :sad:

With much love,
Kelku
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

Kensho
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Kensho » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:15 pm

QUOTE:
How brainwashed was I, not to react to such symptoms, despite identifying them correctly?
How brainwashed was I to believe nothing could happen to me cause 'he' said so?
How brainwashed was I to afterwards blaming myself of not being worthy of getting any help from the 'masterteacher'?


This is all in the plan at RSE; and it comes forward in what I consider to be perhaps the greatest abuse of all. To convince people that any hardship, illness and even death is somehow their fault. The reality is that everyone has or will experience these things.

It is also interesting that Judith herself has had at least one of those old hips replaced. So much for all the so called healing disciplines.:shock:

Another aspect to consider with respect to illnesses among followers caught in RSE's web, is that other followers are instructed not to offer them assistance or comfort.
For me, this last point is what openned the doors to leaving RSE and re-entering reality.

Kelku, it is so good that you survived (by listening to and acting upon reality instead of sticking with RSE's dogma) in that situation. Thrombosis, can certainly be life threatening. Even a session of C&E could have ended in tragedy. I shudder to think how close you may have come to eperiencing the final reality prematurely due to RSE's idiocy.

Take care of yourself and thanks for sharing this. It is so important that others know how dangerous RSE's programming can be. Potentially deadly.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

Ockham
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Ockham » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:04 pm

Kensho, you wrote of the single greatest reason I could never be an RSE follower: the misguided notion that it is somehow compassionate to withhold care and comfort for another person or animal in need. That somehow offering reasonable care is somehow going to devalue the other party's manifestation of trauma. Is it not possible that one's rendering of care is part of the other's mainifestation? Well then, there goes that misguided notion of, 'allowing,' right out the window.

I've witnessed ramsters I know conduct neglect almost to the point where intervention would be warranted, done in the name of allowing. I believe it is a pretty slipperly slope to go from allowing, which is of questionable philosophical merit, to neglect, a slef-centered rationalization of egoism to not be involved in a situation that might by emotionally/physically/financially trying.

That allowing mentality really fits wtih the Judy Knight ego. She gets to exploit the ramsters into poverty. What the heck, who cares, they are mainifesting their own situation becuase their Christ needs them to experience destitution. Did I (Judy) make them give up their security for me? Nah!

There is one of exceptions in Judy's rule set: when a quid pro quo is involved. No doubt, quite a bit of cash was forked over for those face lifts and and hip replacement. I guess the doctors didn't have to feel bad about taking away Judy's growth experience of learning some of the aspects of old age because they manifested her money.

Personally, the greatest spiritual growth I've experienced is whan I have worked in the service of others. It is also an enlightenment to see how much more results a few people working together can manifest than anybody working alone.

Kensho
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Kensho » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:52 pm

Adding to this is when the RSE follower does offer assistance...as an experiment to test their 'powers'. In the end, its all about them. The RSE program ends up altering simple acts of comapssion to this degree in the minds of its followers.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by freemysoul » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:20 am

Great posts. I have always been a compassionate person, from the time I was a little child, seeing a human or animal in pain, physical or emotional, would touch the part of me that wanted to help in some way, even if that way meant only to be a shoulder to cry on, or the ears to listen, I wanted to give of myself to ease that suffering of whoever it may be.
My 'friend' that had been involved in RSE since the early 80's, had me convinced that compassion was just an excuse to be 'vomited' on. There were two parts of the 'compassion experience' in the rse playbook. You are either a 'vomiter, or the vomitee'. If you tell another human being, a friend, etc. about a 'problem' you are having, be it physical, emotional, whatever, this is just an excuse to be a victim/vomiter, and get some chemical kick from your brain from it. If you listen to another person's problems, you are the vomitee, and who wants to be puked on, right?!?!?! I swallowed this illogical bunch of horseshit enough to start applying it in my life. This comes from a set of teachings JZ gave starting in the late 80's on emotional attachment. I surmise she used this to just further her influence and control on the people who weren't completely under her influence yet. I never could completely accept this, and every one of my friends at rse told me that I just loved being puked on, or that I loved puking on others, which just pissed me off, because something inside me, knew better, and knew that showing compassion for others, or giving of yourself to ease the pain of others was a noble thing, not some bastardized version of manipulating others for some personal gain. This was one of the chinks in my rse armor, and it happened early in my experience there. What is upsetting to me is that even though I might not have completely believed it, I still exercised the idea of ignoring others pain, or cutting people off when they were sharing something personal or painful out of some illogical fear of being puked on.
It is such a relief, knowing what I know now, understanding honestly who JZ Knight REALLY is, and being free of her manipulation and deceit. But it doesn't stop the guilty shadow that sometimes comes over me, reminding me what a terrible person I was when I acted as she taught me to. I am grateful to posts like this one, that allow me to look honestly at who I was, understand why, and have the COMPASSION to forgive myself for it all.

Kensho
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Kensho » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:13 am

QUOTE: "...what a terrible person I was when I acted as she taught me to."

There is a huge difference between doing something terrible and being a terrible person. A lot of misplaced guilt can be done away with through this perspective; while still allowing responsibility to be recognized. I too did unkind things that I regret doing while under the influence of RSE, but that does not mean that I was an unkind person...just confused, manipulated and blinded to reality in those instances.

Similarly, one who expresses compassion towards others does not mean that the person is compassionate all the time...we are all capable of not being what we admire and wish we were. Simply recognizing that with honesty might be the foundation of understanding and compassion for ourselves and others. What we build from there, on that foundation is really up to us.

I remember Greg saying to a full arena of attendees that "there is only one rule for masters...and that is that there are no rules." I used to find it hard to be understanding and compassionate toward him in recalling that remark and the intention behind it; yet statements like that can be expected from one who is caught up in such a thing as RSE, for that is the nature of lust for power over others.
Greg also spoke fondly of his son, so even through he participates in the intentional & detrimental manipulation of others, he apparently does have the capacity to love and care about others as well.
How sad for himself and others (including his child), that he has made the choices that he has.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

Ockham
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Ockham » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:01 pm

You know, I was thinking it would be interesting to read Greg Simmons' doctoral dissertation. I've been wondering how his early studies influenced his tenure at RSE. There ought to be a copy in his college's library. Oops, didn't graduate with a PhD? Oh, so sorry. I suppose it sounds more intriguing to call yourself, 'Doctor,' instead of just, 'Greg,' in conversations.

On the ohter hand, RSE does have a former college head from Maynooth, Michael Ledwith. I am sure that really is, 'Dr. Ledwith.' But then there's the little incident where Dr. Ledwith had to resign his post before the Church threw him out for letting abuses run rampant under his watch.

It seems we have storied credentials indeed among the RSE teaching staff.

Kensho
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Kensho » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:33 pm

Good points Ockham. The delusion and dishonesty of the doctor that isn't and the doctor that might be (although I doubt it), has been showing for some time :oops: :-) . In the world of RSE pretend, pretty much anything goes though. It is an unspoken agreement of sorts: If I don't challenge your lie, then it is expected that you will support me in mine. Oh the potentials of just a few folks coming clean about their own (make believe) delusions at an RSE event and then seriously pointing out just the obvious ones in others would be quite another 'event' for sure.
Even from within the comfy confines of true delusion, there are some things that many RSE followers repeat in the
"I have always been..." recitations that just can't be truly believed; but when in Rome...

Freemysoul, another thing comes to mind with respect to what you said so well:

QUOTE: "There were two parts of the 'compassion experience' in the rse playbook. You are either a 'vomiter, or the vomitee'. If you tell another human being, a friend, etc. about a 'problem' you are having, be it physical, emotional, whatever, this is just an excuse to be a victim/vomiter, and get some chemical kick from your brain from it. If you listen to another person's problems, you are the vomitee, and who wants to be puked on, right?!?!?!"

It is quite likely that this part of the RSE playbook is to discourage RSE followers from sharing their true experiences of suffering with each other. That way, among RSE followers at least, it appears that all is well in everyone else's life. Add in the RSE dogma with respect to how suffering is to be perceived and not only is the pressure on the RSE follower to suffer in silence, but to also first blame one's self for difficulties and then to create a delusion that supposedly over-rides it.
As Kelku's original post illustrates, that sort of thinking can potentially result in a far more serious sort of suffering...possibly even in death.
It is a very dangerous way to think, but this is what RSE promotes.
By speaking out about our experiences in this regard, may those who are convinced that this way of thinking is somehow beneficial, be encouraged to take a closer look at the reality of it not working out for the best in the end.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by freemysoul » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:49 pm

Very well said Kensho and thank you for your thoughtful response. I still am working through the guilt associated with my time at RSE, and am far from the person I was two years ago, but there is still work to be done on my part. Thanks again for such a well thought out post.
It really is helpful for JZ to convince people that there is no such thing as a victim. What a clever, yet mean spirited way to absolve JZ Knight of responsibility when those she has led to peril come looking for retribution, and a better way yet for her to convince people to victimize or abuse others with ZERO accountability.
This is the a keystone to RSE's operation, and I am sure this dogma has kept many from ever seeing what JZ does as harmful.

Ockham
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Ockham » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:14 am

I know it is unavoidable, but I hope recovering former members don't feel undue guilt. RSE is a mind control collective, so while you're in, you don't have access to your normal faculties for weighing decisions objectively. I see at least a few parallels to people who have voluntarily served military duty. For any number of reasons, it seemed like the correct decision going in. Freedom of choice is restricted while in. Coming out on the other side, there is post traumatic stress to deal with once you feel the weight of what happened while you were in. Provided one makes the choice to join in good faith, using the best facts at hand, it was a morally sound choice.

The crooked teachers at RSE that know they're shoveling out questionable instruction?; perhaps karma will deal with that

I think I know better than to offer psychological advice because I don't have proper training Just let me say that I support everybody whom I've read here, and I hope everybody is able to find the coping skills they need to let go of what they don't like about the past. Know that was then and this is now. No need to feel bad about moving out of the past.

Kelku
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:40 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Kelku » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:49 am

So wonderful thoughtful posts here. :D

Kensho, I love the points you elaborated.

I'd like to add something on the doctoral degrees.
As far as I know Miceal's are valid.
Greg once said that his is derived from a joke. ... very funny, especially for the people that don't know this.
I just came about an example that I found to be revealing.
The following is taken from the Q&A section of Greg's newsletter from March 2012:
Questioner: I read your book and I want to ask you about the sleep paralysis who is known as the Old Hag syndrome. I have this since I was in high-school. I want to control it. I wake up in the night, and my body is frozen and I can't move, I see shadows and I hear different voices and sounds very loud, is a feeling that I will die in every moment.

Greg: I had that happen once to me. As I couldn't move, and I was frightened, I called out the name RAMTHA. I was instantly able to move and it never happened again. Maybe you can do the same thing?? Seeing shadows is indicative of being in infra-red frequency, the first level one passes through after death. Some people experience this state of paralysis in order to have an Out of Body (OBE) experience.
http://www.physicsofchange.com/newsletter0312.html

??? :shock:
So this is the kind of advice you get if you have a real physical problem?
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

ex
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:18 am

Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by ex » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:46 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Some reports read that various factors increase the likelihood of both paralysis and hallucinations. These include:
Sleeping in a face upwards or supine position
Increased stress
Sudden environmental or lifestyle changes
A lucid dream that immediately precedes the episode
Excessive consumption of alcohol coupled with lack of adequate sleep[18]


out of that advise similar to dr gregs: To get rid of the demonic creature, one needs to pray to Allah with certain lines from the Qur'an.

wiki outdoes dr greg and ramtha.

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Mitchell
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Re: Brainwashed to death?

Unread post by Mitchell » Sat May 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Thank you for sharing. This attitude found amongst RSE students and staffmembers is highly destructive. I often encountered agressive, blaming attitudes when people were ill. Things like 'you created it, you deserve it all!' This attitude must be the farthest away from true enlightenment. It lacks any form of compassion. Would an enlightened Master turn another soul away like that? Not even an 'unenlightened' human being would do that within his normal senses. This goes to show that not only rational thinking is being shut down, but also the normal capacities of the human heart. Deadly ...

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