The EnlightenMeFree (EMF) Online Debate Forum - Read Only Until Further Notice

This Forum has been created by former members of RSE to make public the destructive, deceptive and illegal activities regarding JZK,Inc & JZ Knight at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment RSE.Inc
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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 am 
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I deal with the People from the school almost daily. I work hard to grin
and bear it when they speak of things that I will not understand. Once I get into
a discussion I explore all possible angles of the subject. I have a hard time
justifying being able to not try to speak back to a direct question when I know my
answer could save another human from deep anguish. I do know they are coming
from a place of love and they are trying to share something that holds deep meaning
for them. I just feel bad I can not have them see through my eyes for one second.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:51 am 
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I had heard this before though I had not heard it completely. I was looking for a quote for on here
I think this will do fine. Now I must only figure out how that is done on here.

"You’ve gotta dance like there’s nobody watching.
Love like you’ll never be hurt.
Sing like there’s nobody listening.
And Live like it’s heaven on earth.”

William W. Purkey


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:07 pm 
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I suppose I, "grin and bear it," relative to a lot of the psychobabble and pseudoscience I hear from the people I know who are hooked on RSE. When I hear bullshit, I don't compromise my own principles. I respect the fact that RSE devotees, except for children, are their own people and free to believe what they want, so I don't feel I have the right to be antagonistic, trying to convert them to being non RSE addicted. I have to work with technology for a living, so the pseudoscience of RSE is particularly grating because I daily experience that the universe just doesn't function the way Judy Knight and friends claim, when a ramster starts spouting gibberish. I won't be shy to bring up a concrete counter example and challenge an RSE devotee to give me an demonstrable example that Judy and friends are right. The result is usually predictable: that I am not able to understand the teaching, created my own reality, blah blah blah... cult brain washing.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:13 am 
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Ockham,
Nail. Head. BOOM


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:02 am 
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No unwashing then? Thought it was worth a shot. Everyone has to find their own way
it seems. I was hoping there were something that could be said to bring them back from the
dark side. Good people, bad direction, director. I have on a few occasions tried to talk sense
to that stone and it just looks at me all stone faced.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:22 am 
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My inclination has always been, when the train is coming to shove people out of its path.
Just seems such a waste of time and energy that could be spent on actual living.

Oh well. Thanks for the input.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:40 am 
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Quote:
No unwashing then?

Yes there is an 'unwashing' of sorts...
I think this begins with reclaiming our connection to life that at its core radiates compassion, honor and respect for all life,
rather than the 'alone selfish journey' seen through the clouded lens of a sociopath.
Our humanity reveals a wonderful co-dependence, biodiversity and beauty with all life forms.
What then is 'cleaned out'... is a form of mind parasite, its sustenance to feed off humanity by exploiting fear, superstition and hurt then loses its power and control on its host...
Speak truth to power and walk with honor.... :idea:

That's a good start and destination to reach for.. in my opinion.

David

_________________
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:59 am 
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This so called school seems to be a propagation of hate driven by fear that even extends on with some of the ways people in
the school, students if you will, are viewed on here. I maintain these are good people for the most part from what I have seen.
They are most of you a few years and a few realizations ago. The only real enemy imo
is JZ Darkness, this bashing of people that are doing what is right in their hearts as misguided
as that may be, seems ludicrous to me?
My question to you people is having been through it, knowing what you know,
is there nothing that can be done to help bring these people out of this spell she is casting. She is destroying so many
lives. I know very little of the inner workings of this house of horrors, I do know enough to know it is wrong.
It seems impossible as they do not want to hear and she has given them tools to keep them blind.
It is horrible and unfair but those who have found their way out are the last glimmer of hope for those still being consumed.

I ask again, Is there anything that can be said that will help?


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Hi sequitur...Thank you for you heartfelt post and important questions.
I am sure you have explored our - Friends and Family Members and the Cult Experience
- forum > viewforum.php?f=16
Quote:
I ask again, Is there anything that can be said that will help?

Yes absolutely, in measured amounts depending on how indoctrinated an RSE member has become.
It can be extremely frustrating to have any form of exchange with real meaning, as often the conversation will be hijacked by 'Cognitive Dissonance' and 'Confirmation Bias'... where all logical thought is sabotaged.
But I do believe that words spoken with caring, matched with reasoning do make it through although it may take years to have any real impact.
Speaking or reaching out directly to those closely embedded with JZ Knight is not recommended unless you are fully educated in the methods of sociopaths, even then its most likely a waist of time and very risky for your own well being. I remember meeting up with a former girlfriend and still a hardcore RSE supporter. I gently tried to open the conversation about our breakup and looking at our journey together. I was immediately shot down with a one liner..'Oh David stop living in the past' (This is a common deflection term used by entrenched RSE members ) :sad: The only conversation she was interested in was my building a business website and bouncing around banal niceties. Given any RSE member in that ‘State of Mind’ getting drunk on several bottles of red wine all hell is likely to break loose as buried emotions and upsets from previous un-resolved relationships or life events rise to the surface, also a mirror into JZ Knight's ugly past and world view.

I hope this helps…
Thank you again for your posts and sharing your insights on EMF.

David

"Criticism, like rain, should be gentle enough to nourish a man's growth without destroying his roots."
— Frank A. Clark

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

_________________
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Unprogramming and unwashing, I believe, for the nonprofessional person is tricky at best. Cult members are programmed to smell out attempts to break the cult's lock and will distance themselves from rational thought.

The best thing is to make yourself as knowledgeable as possible about the cult's ethos and its teachings. That is one of my problems because I really detest reading JZK Inc.'s books full of double talk and that awful stilted language. I'm not going to take RSE courses to get access to the instruction that is not in the books. Being facile in the cult's teaching and lingo gives credibility in discussing the cult. What I try to do is to find somewhere the cult teaching is in opposition to what common sense shows to be reality, then ask questions. "What do you think about, ..., when I look at it in the world around me, it seems more like ... . I'm having trouble understanding how the teaching explains that.". Get the cult member to question the teaching for himself or herself. It is a frustratingly slow process.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:49 am 
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Broach the subject of the ridiculousness of Ramtha and expect to hear; that's your truth. It's a really stupid argument but the indoctrinated feel like slam dunk, case closed. There are truths and absolutes in this world. Your personal belief or faith is irrelevant.

Truth: Ramtha isn't real. JZ created this character for profit and adulation.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:07 am 
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Hi sequitur...Thank you for you heartfelt post and important questions.
I am sure you have explored our - Friends and Family Members and the Cult Experience
- forum > viewforum.php?f=16

Thank-You so much David. I finally read this and realized it was a link. I have read a few of the
posts from some very intelligent people that have dealt with this nonsense far longer with much
more insight into these matters than I, very helpful. Thanks to all who take the time to unveil this
monster, you can understand how befuddling all this is to those of us that have never been subjected to such blinded ignorance.
I found this on the web and thought it worth sharing. Most had probably seen this I had not.



When theology erodes and organization crumbles, when the institutional framework of religion begins to break up, the search for a direct experience which people can feel to be religious facilitates the rise of cults. A cult differs from a formal religion in many significant ways. It is in the nature of a cult to claim some esoteric knowledge which has been submerged (or repressed by orthodoxy) for a long time but has now suddenly been illuminated. There is often some heterodox figure, mocked or scorned by the orthodox, who presents these new teachings. There are communal rites which often permit or spur an individual to act out impulses that had hitherto been repressed. In the cult, one feels as though one were exploring novel or hitherto taboo modes of conduct. What defines a cult, therefore, is its implicit emphasis on magic rather than theology, on the personal tie to a guru or to the group, rather than to an institution or a creed.

Daniel Bell


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:49 am 
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When theology erodes and organization crumbles, when the institutional framework of religion begins to break up, the search for a direct experience which people can feel to be religious facilitates the rise of cults. A cult differs from a formal religion in many significant ways. It is in the nature of a cult to claim some esoteric knowledge which has been submerged (or repressed by orthodoxy) for a long time but has now suddenly been illuminated. There is often some heterodox figure, mocked or scorned by the orthodox, who presents these new teachings. There are communal rites which often permit or spur an individual to act out impulses that had hitherto been repressed. In the cult, one feels as though one were exploring novel or hitherto taboo modes of conduct. What defines a cult, therefore, is its implicit emphasis on magic rather than theology, on the personal tie to a guru or to the group, rather than to an institution or a creed.


Daniel Bell (b. 1919), U.S. sociologist, educator. The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism, ch. 4, Basic Books (1976).

The reason I am re-posting this quote is; I was talking with a friend who while was not a ramster did attend the school. They enjoyed the company and the teachings but did not embrace the scamtha villeinage. I noticed how this might be a road map for JZ Daze if it were written before the school began. They said 1976 was pre-ster, I found this interesting and thought others may also.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Thank you all for this website. I am in overwhelm right now. My sister just flew off to someplace in Italy to join the "school" and I have been trying to figure out what's what. If anything, I am realizing from the many stories here that I have a lot to learn and should not rush to convince my sister. I love her and don't want any harm to come to her. This has all come as a big shock to me because I don't understand what value she sees in the RSE message. This is a side of her I am just learning about. So I guess I will ask her about her trip when she returns home and wait to see what happens next. In the meantime, thank you again!


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Hi Hollander,

Welcome to EMF
I'm very sorry to hear about your sister.
It is often the most idealistic and openhearted people who are deceived and indoctrinated into cults.
Oftentimes dragging whole families into a quagmire of broken homes, relationships and divisions.
We will do all we can to help.

David

_________________
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:31 am 
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Hello and welcome Hollander.
It can feel overwhelming being in the position of a loved one, as my family informed me after I left RSE, I was oblivious to their pain and anxieties. Oblivious isn't the right word, I didn't give a damn, and at the time thought them ignorant and lost. My family allowed me.....that's the best way I can say it.............they allowed me. They even provided transportation to and from RSE several times, which I look back on now and just shake my head. They would state their concerns, and ask questions but never judge me or berate me. They were great listeners and this was a very effective approach, because it left a doorway for me, once I began to see the truth of what rse and jz truly are, they were there for me.
I hope and pray the same for you and your sister. Don't ever give up


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:29 am 
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freemysoul

wonderful advice!!!


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