Another mother-story I'm afraid.. :-)

[Felicitas]

Hi, I'm new to this message board. My mother is a student of RSE (has been for about 10 years now). When she first came across the school, I was 22 years old and did not live at home anymore. Im am glad about that, because, although it still was hard to cope with the startling transformation of her personality when she became an active follower of Ramtha, the fact that I was old enough meant I was able to handle that much better than if it had happened while I was still a child. Anyway, I became a student of the school too – for a while -, ordered the books, went to a Beginner Event (in Europe), had my mind blown away by all of the wild and exciting new knowledge and felt wonderfully superior to all of the limited people who muddled on with their dull, miserable lives.. The reason I became a student for a while was primarily because I wanted to understand the things that had gripped my mother so totally and moved her to quit her job, do away most of her larger possessions (like furniture, the stuff she could’nt haul over to Yelm in an airplane) and move from Europe to (the vicinity of) Yelm. My mother and I had always shared an interest into knowledge about life, the universe and everything, that was not mainstream, but rather ‘out there’. But we were also always very down to earth, critical thinkers that did not get swept away by some teaching or guru…at least, until my mother stumbled upon Ramtha. Anyway, after having immersed myself in the teachings for a couple of years (and doing the disciplines, like C&E, torsion field, the walk, the cards, etc.) my critical thinking and my own divine self started to wake me up to more and more stuff that just did not add up: the high financial cost of maintaining an active student status, the paradoxes in the teachings and the, to me, often incomprehensible and ridiculous way in which the ‘knowledge’ was presented by ‘Ramtha’, the worship of ‘Ramtha’ many students engaged in, which I found distasteful and at odds with the central message of the school dat we are all gods, equal, etc., the fact that after all this time not a single ‘master’ had emerged from RSE, the fact that although doing the disciplines was often quite nice, I did not perform miracles because of them (yeah, I know: then I did not do them properly.. , the arrogance towards people that are not in the school and above all the alarming fact that JZ/Ramtha seemed to enjoy all the attention immensely (and of course all the riches that came with it). Since I have always valued input from various sources instead of just one, I began to research many of the concepts that were taught at the school as knowledge that could be gotten only from Ramtha. To my great surprise, I found that all of these (we are gods, infinite consciousness, capable of much more than we think, we create our lives by our observation of reality, the concept of a holographic universe) had been around from many different sources long before JZ/Ramtha began to teach them. So the knowledge is out there, for free. Wow. Then why the hell shoud I pay JZ/Ramtha so much money for it to be presented to me in a theatrical, often downright ridiculous and incomprehensible way? Why should I have to travel all the way to Yelm for that? Or to Belgium or Italy in Europe, to be in some hostel or on some camping for a week or so, for an awful lot of money? I can think of far better reasons to travel to Yelm or even to move there: the countryside is beautiful, Rainier Nt. Park is absolutely worth the visit. My conclusion, based on my experience with my mother and other Ramsters is that people who stay in the school even when they know that the knowlegde can be gotten elsewhere for free, do so because of one reason: they do not trust themselves enough to be their own leaders in the journey to discover their own greatness. This lack of trust is compounded by their fear of death and their absolute conviction that Ramtha is the only safe ticket out of here. I do not judge them for that, but I am saddened by it. My mother is a wonderful and smart lady, that got sidetracked because of this. At the same time, her move to the US has greatly improved her life: I can see that she is much happier now than she was before. So, I have decided not to try and talk her out of this (which does not work anyway), but to remain a 'neutral' observer as far as the RSE-aspect of her life is concerned. When she first became a student, she exhibited all the familiar traits of a fanatic follower in that she distanced herself from me and let me know at every opportunity how limited my thinking was (a normal conversation was nearly impossible back then). But since then we have managed to regain our close mother-daughter relationship (mostly over the phone, since I live in Europe, but that’s okay, I visit her from time to time). She knows that I’m not into RSE anymore, but she accepts that and in return, I accept that she still is. I do not know wether we will be able to keep this up in the future, but for now I’m grateful for the fact that she is not lost to me.

As for JZ/Ramtha, my conclusion is the following: she is a very smart fraud, that exploits people’s fear of meaninglessness and death for hard cash. Ramtha does not exist. Many of the teachings contain valuable information, but that information can be gotten elsewhere and much cheaper. I would not want to earn a living the way she does, because I would not want to be a heartless vampire that feeds off of other people’s hopes and dreams, but hey, that’s what free will is for, isn’t it? If she wants to be a vampire, so be it. Also, I do not think my mother is a victim: she was an adult and in full possession of her senses when she became a student and she can quit the school anytime she chooses to do so.
It might not be easy, especially after so many years and with so much invested (not only financially, but first and foremost emotionally), but I know it is possible. All it takes is a decision and then sticking to it. Anyway, I have high hopes for 2012 and beyond: when december 2012 has come and gone and the world still exists, I expect that many of the ramsters will wake up to what's going on (and no, I don't think that they will drink poison). This is not just one more prediction that did not come true, but a big one that did not come true. After all, it's JZ's big retirement scheme, right? All bets on 2012, cash in big time in the years running up to the grand finale, when the fear of death can be exploited more than ever and then saying 'sorry folks, ramtha has finally gone back to the 23d universe'.

[WofthesunEofthemoon]

Hi, Felicitas,

I am a new member of EMF, too. I have never been a member of RSE, but I was once a member of another 'spiritual' organization, a very long time ago. It did all end in tears and tragedy (well, near tragedy); however, I hope you won't mind my answering your post here, even though I know very little of RSE. In my case, I was the 'mother', who had actually quite small children, at the time, and a husband who was quite happy for me to be giving my time to what, even he, thought was a benevolent society. But, as these things do, it all went wrong. I was very deep down in that particular 'rabbit hole' and getting myself out took an immense amount of energy, and endangered my mental health. (Which had probably taken a bashing, already, by what I had been taught and was expected to do, within this organization.)

One thing I will always remember is that no-one, but no-one, was going to take me away from my children, or them away from me. In your case, your mother, I am sure, is reasoning that you are an adult, now, therefore her life is no longer so tightly bound with yours, in certain respects. After all, we expect our children to grow up, gain their independence, regardless of us and do 'their own thing.' Then, as parents, we may feel that doing 'our own thing' is fine, too. And why not? Yet, a mother (or a father) is always a parent. One of my children is no longer with us. She died in her late twenties. That is one of the worst things that I can imagine happening to anyone. My other child (nearly 40, now) is a great joy to me, even though we both do 'our own thing', these days. Having said all that, I am moving on too quickly, because I have neglected to tell you that, although I refused to agree to leave my family, I suffered from mental health problems for many years (about ten, in all) after leaving the organization in question, so my children had the 'joy' of putting up with a totally 'loopy' mother, for months at a time, during that period. A very bitter experience for all concerned.

I think that RSE seems to eat away at the heart of people, until they are only speaking 'gobbledigook', and have forgotten who they are. However, as a mother, I really don't believe that your mother will not come back to you, when her eyes are opened. Yes, it might take something like 'nothing happening' on 21 Dec 2012 (or whenever it is supposed to be), to be the catalyst. I really hold that thought and hope in mind for you. But, whatever it is, if your unconditional love is waiting for her, that will be wonderful. I know that it is the parent who is supposed to have the unconditional love for their children, not the other way around. (Remember that moment when you discovered that Mum and Dad weren't perfect? What a revelation that is, to all of us!) But you sound, to me, as if you have enough love for the both of you.

One thing I can say is that it might all be a very embarrassing experience for her, to find that she has given all this time, effort, belief and heart, to a total fraud. I do agree with that not all the concepts taught at RSE are basically bad. That is what is so seductive about the whole thing. In fact, I agree with everything that you say about your discoveries during your research into spiritual matters and how they relate to the 'school'. That was my problem, too, with the organization I belonged to. Too much fiction in the mix, which ended up causing total bewilderment.

So, to be there to support her through that will be very important for her. (I realised that I had made a complete idiot of myself and it was very hard to get to grips with that!)

Once again, I do hope that you don't mind me putting my 'fourpence-worth' in here.

With very much love,

WofthesunEofthemoon

[Felicitas]

Hi WofthesunEofthemoon,

Thank you for your wonderful reply to my post. It means much to me to hear your point of view, being the mother instead of the daughter. I had not yet thought of the possibility that she might feel embarassed towards me and others, once she wakes up, but I can imagine it. As you say, unconditional love is very important and I think I have that for her. We both do 'our thing' and she does rely on the fact that I am independent. And that's okay (and yeah, I do remember the moment I discovered that my parents weren't perfect. Very disturbing at the time, but hilarious now, when I thing back to that).
The fact that my father also lives on the other side of the world (from where I am), because of his job, helps me to keep a proper perspective of things (my parents are divorced). It's not the fault of RSE that I don't get to see her much. After all, there could have been other reasons for her living at a great distance from me. And then there's the undeniable fact that she is happier now: she met and married a terrific guy, she lives in a beautiful place and loves her work. I can see that everytime I visit her.
At the same time, since I became disenchanted with RSE, part of me is alert and watchful, feeling responsible, as if I am the parent and she is the child (there's nothing like having a cultmember as a mum to reverse those roles..), I keep a lookout for any signs that mean that I might have to do something (although I don't know what that would be) to help or protect her. When she wakes up, she'll have a place with me and she can stay for as long as she needs to. I expect that it won't be an easy time and you have confirmed that where you say that your children had to put up with a 'loopy' mother.
It is good to see from your example that people can overcame such odds, thanks. That gives me hope. And I am sorry for your loss. Loosing a loved one is a horrible, horrible thing and I can imagine that loosing a child is even worse.
Yes, you are right when you say that RSE eats away at the heart of people. It is right, because RSE presents itself in many subtle and not so subtle ways as being the last outpost, the last escape, when all else has failed: organised religions, atheism, new age (Scamtha loves to make fun of the new age culture), guru's or swami's or whatever they're called. The message is that all of that does not provide real answers, but RSE does. That's a message that's pretty hard to resist when you're a tired seeker. It's just a shame that those people (including my mom) can't see that life is already beautiful and mysterious enough just the way it is. For me, the most profound realisation was that I did not really need (or want) to be Superwoman, immortal and able to manifest anything in an instant in order to enjoy my life. No, I could just enjoy my life. That's it. I don't need a master-teacher to do that. If anything, I am my own master-teachter. And I partake of the wisdom of others when and if it suits me, but always on my own terms.

Thanks and love to you, Felicitas

[WofthesunEofthemoon]

You are very welcome, my lovely!

It sounds to me as if you have already found the answer to the wonderful mystery of life and why we are all here from your own heart. It's surprising what lives in there, isn't it?

Your mother does sound to be happy with her life, right now - there is always a sense of euphoria when you believe you belong something special and that you have discovered something that no-one else really knows (apart from the chosen few, that is.) There will also be the sense, for her, that she is living life the way it should be lived, which will make her heart feel light. That we are looking at it from the perspective of knowing that that simply can't be true is meaningless to her, right now, just as you have said. It is very sad to think of that all being taken away from her. Is it doing her so much harm right now? Probably not. It's a hard one, isn't it, when the waking up will be so much more painful than the dream?

But there is an old saying: "All will be well, and all will be well and all manner of things will be well." Things have such a way of working themselves out for the best, no matter how we are seeing them from any moment, or any perspective.

Lots of love, my honey,

WofthesunEofthemoon

[anemone]

Hello, (sorry english is not my 1st language)

i see that this forum has not be so active lately but i must say it helps reading these stories.....
about 3-4 months ago my dad told me that i had to move form where i live because i am close to a volcano and the "end" of the world is coming... i can tell you that hearing this from your dad is shocking...after the initial shock i asked him where he got thi information and he started to talk to me about ramtha. i started to look abotu ramtha and of course from my point of view it is obviously nonsense and definately similar if not a cult! (or at least using the same sistem)
but my dad is more and more getting into it and went for the 1st time with his girlfriend - who is also a follower - to the shcool of enlightment this september. he now talks about selling his house and moving to a safe ground where he will be protected from the end of times andthen can begin the new promised life,....it is very scary and it is becoming more and more difficult to have a conversation with him without having ramtha and that "change" is about to happend put into it.
i am so afraid that one he will wake up from this and realise that he spent all of his money and savings (he already spetn so much on books dvds conferences and now the school) that ramtha is bullshit and and that he lost he time friends and all to a lie. for the past fews years he has been involved in many "scams" ...amway, and other marketing pyramids that are strangely similar in the technics they use to lure people in as ramtha. he already lost so much do to that....and he is not the same man as I used to know a fews years ago...it seems part of him is dead when he talks...it is so sad to see and accept.
i dont know what o do...i love him so much, so much it hurts, and seeing him disappaering behind ramtha and what he(or should i say SHE) says breaks my heart and the rest of the family as well.
i dont try to talk him out of it i know its useless, he knows wat i think about it though, but i dont know whatto do, i am so afraid to loose him.
my brother and i talk about it andwe have decided that for now all we can do is be tere for him whenever , keep an eye on what s happening, and love him! but sometimes you just want to shake him , wake him up from this.....
i would appreciate your opinion, and point of view because i dont know what to do more.....

ps. i want to add that although i am not personally a spiritual person i respect completely the people who are and i find some of the teaching givne by ramtha very good and positive! i dont critic the beliefs, I critic the way she sells them using dangerous lies, fiction, money and playing with people´s heart and lives to get some monetray gain!

anemone

[Another Dimension60]

Thank you for your heartfelt sharing. Sadly, as you can read in previous posts, the best you can do for your Father is continue to love him - ultimately love will lift him out/wake him up.... It is probably the hardest thing you will have to do in life - to stand by impotently and watch a Loved One being hurt -- Love is more powerful than all the ugliness you've noted re jzk inc.'s ramtha. Keep remembering/seeing the Man you know your Father to be.
It's not much consolation, but the American media is also quite 'busy'/pre-occupied with stimulating fear re volcanoes and earthquakes and endtimes and tsunamis and economic collapse etc. -- jzk inc. no longer has the corner on the fear market....

[Sad Grandfather]

I am a 76 year old grandfather, not in great health, and my wife has Alzheimer's. Over 3 years ago my daughter "discovered" Ramtha aka Judy Knight, and after flying out there 3 times with my grandchildren, packed up and moved, with the grandkids, leaving my son-in-law with the ultimatum that "to keep the family together" he'd have to move there, also.

She also was wrapped up in the 2012 crap, and said the Yelm area was the only safe place. I was astounded and pointed out that they were sitting on the San Andreas fault, at the base of an active volcano! She just brushed it off, and changed the subject. Yes, Mt. Rainier is a volcano, though for now it is quiet, it could easily be the next Mt. St. Helens. Are the "students" not aware of this?

Mt. Rainier could easily become the next Mt St. Helens, but with the potential to be MUCH larger. Will it happen? It could start becoming active tomorrow or it could be a million years, but yes, it has the potential.

Of all the places on earth to claim to be safe from global upheaval, Yelm is probably in the bottom 20% of "safe" places.

I haven't seen my daughter or her family since they moved there. I hope I live to see 2012 become a non-event, but I have heard that Judy has told her followers that if they all concentrate their powers that they can change the timeline and save the world. That way they can all take credit for it NOT happening!

Unless something dramatic happens, I probably won't live to see the family again.

[anemone]

thank you anotherdimension for your reply.
i do believe in love and i love my dad so much, and always will no matter what!!! i just hope that this situation will not harm him too much and that we do not loose him from it. liek you say that is all i can do anyway...i really miss him

sadgrandfather i completeley agree with you ,and that i actually an argument i used against ramtha and jz, but then i was told that i was not spiritual enough to understand it and that they are many reasons that yelm is safer any other places but that i cannot understand it. i ma really sorry to hear about loosing contact with your daughter and grand-children, it must be very hard.....
another thing i was told is that one of jz´s prohpecies came true when the chilean earthquake happened because it shifted the axe of the Earth....that is true, it did shift if a couple of degrees ( as it has with the tsunami in south east asia) but none of the catastrophic outcomes of the the shift happened (extreme weather, major mirating shifts from birds and animals, end of the golf stream etc) ...but then again, none of that mattered as all my dad sees is that she predicted the shift ad it happened, a sign that what ramtha says it is true.

i hope you will be your daughter and gran children again, and i hope that when 2012 passes and nothing happens some of the students will realize how much they have be lied too and deceived.....

[Sad Grandfather]

Yes, I was given the same treatment, in that I was told that I was just ignorant since I had not experienced all the things that she had.

I always knew she was a bit gullible, but never thought she was stupid enough to fall for Judy's line of bull. I have lived a pretty diverse life and experienced a lot of things, but since I am not a ramster, in her mind, that is all that counts.

I have actually hoped that she would get some very painful disease, which might bring her to her senses, since her "powers" would not heal her. Even if she died, if it would bring the rest of the family to their senses and save the minds of my grandchildren, I would consider it a reasonable trade.

[Lost in Space]

I sincerely hope each of you have your family members restored to you fully. I don't believe any group can stop people from loving one another, although sometimes it may appear from their behaviour that they have.
And, Sad Grandfather, I don't know how young your grandchildren are, but I suspect that like most kids, at some stage they are going to find themselves, and rebel against parental authority, realizing as said here that their parents are not perfect, and finding their own way. Who knows, as teenagers they may become Atheists, Christians or Humanists in rebellion.
My friend lost his child through divorce, as her mother had custody, and kept her from him for years, all the while telling his daughter that her father did not care about her (talk about mind control!). As an adult, though, she sought him out and they have re-established a relationship.
And, lets hope that it will not take a major illness for your daughter to realize that her kids are entitled to a relationship with you.
Sad for you, but thinking there is hope.
Also, I can relate to the indignation felt when a loved one suddenly decides that you are not "good enough" for them, because you are not enlightened and not part of the School, and you are therefore not something on which they should waste their godly energy.
Lost in Space

[Sad Grandfather]

Thanks, for the encouragement. The kids are grandson 19 and grandaughter 16. The boy is into the cult thing, but the girl was not, the last I knew.

I am resigned to the fact that I can do absolutely nothing to solve the problems, and that I may not live to see my grandchildren again, except their pictures on my website.

My goal at prsent is to live past 2012, and see what they think after nothing happens. Maybe, instead of my daughter getting an illnes, Judy will get a fatal one. I'd like to see how that gets explained!

[Lost in Space]

Sad Grandfather:

I just read your story on another post - about your illness and that of your wife, and how your daughter said, presumably coming from a place of wisdom learned at RSE, that you created them. I shed a couple of tears and gave a prayer of thanks to some nameless Higher Power that I did not attend the school when I was tempted to and my folks were still around. My kid was their only grandchild, and I would have tried to take her with me, or left her behind to be raised by her loving but alchoholic Dad. I was and still am hung up on a Ramster, by way of explanation for that temptation.
Sending you love and a hug, if that helps at all.

[Sad Grandfather]

Thanks for your kind thoughts. It has certainly been an "experience"! I'm glad you have been able to keep your perspective. Maybe your ramster will eventually get back his sanity and you can have a life.

[Felicitas]

Anemone and sad grandfather,
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I have not been able to post a reply before, but I just want to say to you that I really feel for you and what you're both going through. My thoughts are with you!

Your experiences with your father, anemone and with your daughter, sad grandfather, are - sadly - so familiar, since I have had and am still having the same with my mother. Just yesterday she called me to say that I really had to think about getting out of where I live in Europe soon, preferably by the end of this year and move to Yelm. She has been saying this a lot lately, ever since RSE has stepped up the 2012 end-of-the-world crap big time. Apparently there was an event last saturday, at which Scamtha dished out some more predictions. One of those was, according to my mother, that the part of Europe where I live (the Netherlands) will go under water, starting january 2011... If it were not for the real fear in my mother's voice, I could just laugh and move on. Since my mom joined RSE some 10 yrs. ago there must have been a dozen times (as far as I remember) when this kind of prediction was made and lo and behold: I still have dry feet here. My mom keeps telling me that I can always come to Yelm and stay with here, that it is the only safe place and all that. I keep answering that I appreciate her offer, but that I do not see any reason for moving, that I do not share here fear, etc. It does not seem to matter. Everytime she's gotten another ramtha-fix, it all starts over again.. And becoming ever more intense these last couple of months. It makes me sad and angry.

If ramsters have one extraordinary ability, it is to be able to talk any crooked ramtha-nonsense straight: whether it is the 'you lack the proper understanding', 'your thinking is too limited' or 'you have not had these experiences'-line, there's always a convenient answer they can use to shut you up and absolve themselves from actually thinking about what was just said to them. Very frustrating.

Yeah, any sensible person would wonder how Yelm could possibly be the safest place, as Scamtha claims, when there's a volcano (Mt. Rainier) right on the doorstep. As you pointed out, sad grandfather, it might be the next Mt. St. Helen's. How very reassuring. But of course, according to my mom, Ramtha will not let that happen to his students, nooo...

Like you, I have my hopes on 2012 coming and going without the world coming to an end. Since it is such a major prediction, I hope it not coming to pass will have more effect as a wake-up call than previous predictions. If my mother does not wake up then, but instead buys into the 'we focused on it not happening' and so Scamtha is still right, then I guess I will give up on the hope that she will ever come to her senses. All I can do then is keep loving her, keep telling her that there's always a place for her, if she wants to leave and that's that.

But for now I do hope with all my heart that my mother, your father and your daughter and all the other loved ones at RSE will come their senses sooner than later!

Greetings, Felicitas

[Lost in Space]

Yes, students are encouraged to believe that Yelm is the only safe place, and to build underground shelters. I approach this from an academic perspective - I would not like my friend or your relatives to be underground at the time of a pyroclastic flow from a volcano, or flooding from volcanic debis in the river, or during an earthquake - worst possible strategy is to put yourself somewhere that you will be unable to get out of and will possibly be drowned, burned, gassed or crushed, and where you will have no options and no opportunity to adjust your thinking during a disaster. I am hoping that students know this deep down.
This article is of interest for those of us who would like to believe that Yelm is a safe place, but really can't believe it:
http://www.ci.yelm.wa.us/police/earthquake.htm

[Felicitas]

Wow, thanks Lost in Space. I'll make sure to point that webpage out to my mother next time I speak to her.

[Lost in Space]

You are most welcome Felicitas. I hope it helps.
I fear it would be futile to do this for my friend, who is deeply enmeshed in the school and has been for over 15 years. Better luck to you with your Mom.

[ex]

[quote]Apparently there was an event last saturday, at which Scamtha dished out some more predictions. One of those was, according to my mother, that the part of Europe where I live (the Netherlands) will go under water, starting January 2011.[/quote] dated concret predictions have a 100% failing quota coming from jzr. on the otherhand she misses to predict real major events [a no 8 earthquake in her backyard, a tsunami, 9.11.] so you r save. let us know if anything at all floods in the next 4 month. it is always very interesting to measure someones action on their own teachings. if yelm is the only safe place why build the ramsters their bunkers ? if conciseness creates realty who focuses on such a miserable future?

[Felicitas]

Hi ex,
My thoughts exactly, if the ramsters create their own reality: why such a crappy one??? Actually, I asked my mother that once and suggested to her how that seems so at odds with the 'teachings'. With the whole ug-building and storing food for the 'days to come' stuff going on at RSE, in my mind the focus is actually on fear and survival, but then -if your focus creates your reality- would that not create just that: fear and survival?!? That does not seem very smart to me. You know what she replied? She said that I was missing the point completely (surprise, surprise..) and that being prepared actually frees the person from the fear that he or she won't survive.
Well, there is definitely truth in that, but in my mind that would entail moving farther away from Mt. Rainier and being prepared for earthquakes...
And while I do not believe that we create our realities in the way RSE teaches it, I think the ramsters have - with their actions - proven that they definitely DO create theirs: storing food, building ug's and therefore living in fear, albeit subconsciously, and hanging on to Scamtha's lips for constant confirmation of the rightness of this course of action. What a perfect feedback loop.

I'll be sure to let you know if the Netherlands turn seriously wet in the next couple of months. As you pointed out, dated predictions from Scamtha the enfrightened one have a 100% failure rate, so this will certainly be very interesting.

[anemone]

hi felicitas
thank you for replying and sharing your story as well...with my father is the same , he believs i live in a dangerous place because i live near a volcano ( which is normal s some degree of risk) and that i shoudl move inmediatley because disaster is upon us!
i hope like all that 2012 will open some eyes...and i really hope that until then he does not sink all of his money in this thing...he is already planning to move and sell his house as soon as he can to be in a "safe " place ...meanwhile he does not allow himself to do anything else...has given up his old dreams that he has for years and does not allow himself so mcuh of the fun an relax as he used to.......
good luck to all who are going thru this...it is nice to have this website to talk about it...as it is such a hard subjetc to talk about with anyone.....
take care and tank you