My Friend has been involved with RSE for about 20 years - Help

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:32 pm

Hello, I'm new here and I have been reading a lot of the posts on this site and only today decided to post. I recently met a new male friend who attends RSE. Before I met him I had never heard of this school, although I did watch "What the Bleep" a long time ago and vaguely remember JZ/Ramtha. My Friend has been involved with RSE for about 20 years so as you can imagine he is very ingrained in the teachings. He says that it has changed him and his whole perspective about himself and how to live life. I was very curious to know more about this Ramtha and what the whole thing was about so that's how I got here. Being on this forum has been an eye opener. A lot of what is said here I can relate to what he talks about but the only difference is that I see RSE for what it is...a cult...and he doesn't! I am a Christian who used to be a new ager involved in Transcendental Meditation, Reiki healing, etc before becoming a Christian. My friend will be going to Yelm for an "event" on 17th February for the first time. I am praying that through this experience at the event his eyes will open or that at least he will start questioning his path. We are very open in our discussions, which is great. He has mentioned that this year he is focusing on his "mastery".
Thank you all for this opportunity to share a bit about me

Sandy

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:36 pm

Hi Sandy:

I came to this forum the same way you did, having befriended a long term student of RSE.
I consider it a hopeful sign that although your friend has been following the teachings for 20 years, yet they were open to friendship with a Christian. Some good and strengthening things go on at the ranch, amid some less wholesome things, but generally RSE students, if correctly following the teachings, arrive at the notion that there is something very wrong with traditional Christianity, in spite of the fact that some of the indoctrination of students is completely borrowed from it. As well, students are frequently encouraged to loosen their ties with non-students of Ramtha.
Many people here have said that their first attendance at an event in Yelm and first experience of the actual presence of JZ/Ramtha was wonderful, and it was only later that they became dissaffected. I am considering though that since your friend has been 'in' for 20 years and the event on the 17th is an advanced one, the 'novelty' and glamour effect will be less intense. There may even be something off putting for your friend, like seeing the leader really drunk, swearing and berating devoted followers, even publically singling some out for humiliation. Also, along with some things I actually think are right about the school - the sense of mutual support and community, for instance, from what I have observed in the Ramsters I am acquainted with it may take him some time after the event to shake the adrenaline of intense fear engendered by the whole preparedness thing - yes, according to RSE we should all be on hyper-alert for imminent disaster.

Unread post by **David McCarthy** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:39 pm

Welcome to EMF Sandy,
Although your friend has been "following the teachings" for twenty years, this is a far cry from attending an RSE event in Yelm,
This is a very dangerous step he is making.
He is lost to the clever fuzzy "Ramtha" rhetoric, this is merely the bait to lure him deeper into the RSE trap until his critical thinking and life is totally stripped by this cult,
Once the Christian bashing, Family bashing, Relationship bashing, in fact, bashing everything that JZ Knight cannot control in a students life your relationship will be fragmented and seconded to "Ramtha"! and really put to the test.
I hope he has the strength of heart and mind to see through JZ Knight and get out in time, or better still.. not to go.

Yikes Lost in Space...
"the ranch"? How nice for your friends, but aren't we are talking about a destructive CULT here?

Some good and strengthening things go on at the ranch, amid some less wholesome things,

Just what are you referring to here? you certainly are not talking from direct experience.
Many have lost their lives directly because of this cult, I guess some could view this as "amid some less wholesome things" about RSE!
Dear Lost in Space,
I know you like to play the devil’s advocate on EMF but be sure you understand the devils playground before you do!
Try asking "your RSE friends" a question along the lines..
When students are seriously injured during the Ramtha initiations.. who is responsible for that?
If they are indeed RSE students they will answer along the rhetoric of....
“they created that reality"
the slippery slope into cult thinking i n d e e d master...

David

WofthesunEofthemoon · Unread post by **WofthesunEofthemoon** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:42 pm

Well done, Lost in Space. Once again defending the indefensible!! Shame on you!!

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 pm

Thank you David and Lost in space for your replies and perspectives.

my friend has attended events with "teachers" from the US for a number of years...as well as live streamings of JZ/Ramtha through the years but it would be his first time in Yelm.
I suppose from what I hear this trip will either make or break our friendship

..may be that is why I have been feeling apprehensive. I believe that you're right lost in space..it is positive that he was open to being friends with a Chrsitian as to whether that would still be the case after the trip..we will just have to wait and see. I've been overwhelmed watching all the videos, including some JZ/Ramtha videos, reading posts on this forum as well as reading about mind control and brain washing . I just don't understand how people involved in RSE can't see it for what it is..how do they close their minds and eyes to the wrong doings?

if correctly following the teachings, arrive at the notion that there is something very wrong with traditional Christianity, in spite of the fact that some of the indoctrination of students is completely borrowed from it.

Lost in space..can you please explain a bit further about this indoctrination?

David, I'm praying that all of the "bashings" will open his eyes instead..

Thanks again

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:43 am

David, I expressed my measured opinion. I condoned nothing, I said that the bad behaviours I listed might turn him off, for good.
I don't think anything is all black or white.
The good thing about the events at the school, if I could be excused for saying so, is the people one may meet there. Whatever ill arises out of membership and participation, the students have each other. You yourself have said, and others have also, that the typical person that falls into membership in RSE is idealistic and high minded, with spiritual values. I also agree with such ideas as, in order to make positive changes in the world you must work on yourself, to give one example. And I have no argument with the notion that one ought to be self sufficient and self sustaining, and self disciplined, though I would struggle against having RSE disciplines imposed on my daily routine, there would just be no time to live my life.

Sandy, I was speaking to you from the perspective of someone who has been there, and from the point of view that this person is your friend and someone you care about, and I did not believe the situation to be hopeless, nor do I. It is possible to remain on good terms and close with someone in RSE if one can accept them for who they are, not necessarily condoning what happens to them or their chosen path to the extent of buying into it, but at the same time trying to respect their right to choose for themselves.
I don't like the word cult, so I did not use it. And I think that I might have some arguments against the notion that my friend (or yours) is actually a victim of brainwashing, but I will spare the former students here further distress. The issues I have with the school with respect to my friend lie in other areas, and I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have about them in a personal message.
As to borrowing from Christianity; as a glaring example, students are told that they can learn to be "a Christ". Also, there are the teachings about how we need to transcend our bodily natures. There are other examples, too. In fact, teachings from several different faiths, including Hinduism and Buddhism are also woven into the mix.
And W.E., I don't know what it is that makes you believe you have the right to scold me. I wish you well, anyway.
LIS

Unread post by **David McCarthy** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:58 am

Dear Lost in Space ,
You post with seeming support, authority and knowledge about RSE and then go on to offer contact to Sandy through our PM system....
Red Flag.

Sandy, I was speaking to you from the perspective of someone who has been there

Been where?... having friends in RSE?
Its obvious to me you have not faintest idea what you are talking about when it comes understanding the critical workings of RSE.

The good thing about the events at the school, if I could be excused for saying so, is the people one may meet there. Whatever ill arises out of membership and participation, the students have each other.

Here you go again....What utter nonsense.
We can have each other by virtue of being human beings.. this is despite of RSE, not because of! but even that is soon hijacked at RSE.
If you really understood the level of destruction and chaos caused to genuine relationships by RSE even amongst the students
you would also understand that "the students have each other" notion is all based on JZ Knights control.
When JZ Knight/Ramtha can order a student to go "copulate" with another student.. And They DO...
Do you really think any true and meaningful value of " RSE students having each other" can survive RSE?

David

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:26 am

Dear David:

I offered contact through the PM system because I know what it's like, as an outsider, to have someone you care about in RSE. My wish for privacy was in order not to give things away about the person who still is my friend, and is still in the school, and also, out of deference to other people I know from RSE.
Having visited this board frequently for more than 4 years, since the previous forum, and read everything here and, as well, what I have learned from the few things people I know who are in the school have let slip in unguarded moments (and yeah, I know they are not supposed to 'talk'), as well as reading some of the RSE literature, I think I can lay claim to having a pretty good idea of what goes on there.
And the community and mutual support I spoke of is what goes on between events, not at events, and is also much more readily apparent to the average member of the public. Hard to hide one's trips to WALMART or a local bar or boutique, and hard to keep one's neighbours completely in the dark about what goes on on one's property.
The "there" I spoke of was, discovering that a new friend whom you value is a member of a group about which you know nothing but start to learn can not be considered good news for your friendship, and that was me five years ago. I think there is a sense in which I could say the same to you, David - Do you really know what it's like to deal with a member of RSE that you are fond of from the perspective of an outsider, a friend or family member who is not in the group? I was trying to be encouraging of Sandy, not attack you or your position.

Unread post by **David McCarthy** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:48 am

Dear Lost in Space

I think I can lay claim to having a pretty good idea of what goes on there.

yes... I can see you think so, but you are dangerously mistaken.
From day one of your posting on EMF you have demonstrated a backdoor knack of legitimizing RSE as a school while playing down RSE as a CULT!
EMF was created in part to expose RSE for being a deceptive and destructive Cult.
This you do not believe, I get it.
But EMF is not the place to post your soft approach to this cult, if you do, expect some flack!
or, have your post moved to the RSE supporters forum.

David

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:05 am

I do not support RSE.
I am supportive of my friend in RSE.
I have listed my various objections to RSE over the years, anybody who doubts my position can check out the link I posted from YouTube, "How to be a cult leader".
And I ask you, would listing all of my objections here be of any service to Sandy, who already believes it to be a toxic cult?
I draw a firm distinction between those who run the school and its students.
What distinguishes RSE from some more toxic cults is that nobody lives on that property in Yelm between events besides JZ Knight and her family. People have their own places, out in the real world, and must live within the bounds of regular culture and society. It's sad that some of them can't, like that couple in South Africa, for instance.
Ordinarily, if the posted topic here is one about which I know nothing, I say nothing.
I repeat, I do know what it's like to have a friend in RSE, and that was my only reason for posting here. I was not intent on defending the school, and I don't believe that my statements concerning drunkeness, foul language, the berating and humiliation of students can in any way be considered to be supportive of RSE.

Unread post by **David McCarthy** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:20 am

Dear Lost in Space,
Lets cut to the chase...
Do you view RSE as a School or a Cult?
or perhaps... a less "black and white" way of asking this question if I may..
Do you think there is any validity in the RSE/"Ramtha teachings?
if so, what would that be?

David

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:30 am

Very well, David, although we are straying away from the topic at hand.
Insofar as the teachings of "Ramtha" are also the teachings of The Upanishads, The Bible, The Nag Hammadi Scrolls, The Vedas, and various Pagans, Yogis, Sages and New Agers and pop psychologists, yes, to some extent I think there may be some validity in the teachings, though I questions whether they originate with "Ramtha". The thing is, it should not be necessary for people to bankrupt themselves and abandon what previously have been their lives in order access such teachings. Also, as people are always saying here, just when one thinks they know what "Ramtha" is saying, the tune changes. One can never "get it" because "it" is not a constant.

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:55 am

Why do I call it "the school"...because it's name is Ramtha's School of Enlightenment", and I am using a short form. This does not represent a weighing in on its validity or modus operandi or raison d'etre.
If someone introduces themselves to you as "a Chelah", do you correct them and tell them they are not saying it right, and should be saying "serf", "thrall" or "minion", David?

Lost in Space · Unread post by **Lost in Space** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:07 am

I will elaborate a bit, just so we are clear. What it isn't, as far as I know, is a Church, because a church is a not for profit organization, and the School (yes, I guess I think of it as a School, in that lessons and classes take place, knowledge (right or wrong) is imparted to participants, and perhaps it is loosely modelled on ancient mystery schools) is definitely "for profit".
I think, though, that most mystics and sages who dabble in ancient mysteries, and certainly most churches, want the word to go forth to as many people as possible, and usually little is charged, they exist on donations; perhaps, in some cases, undue influence is exerted to get those donations, but technically, at least, payment is voluntary.
Unlike most schools, though, you never graduate, and if you don't attend all of your required events you have to start back at the beginning.

Rooster · Unread post by **Rooster** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:17 am

Hi Sandy,
I am happy you looked up EMF inquiring the Ramtha teachings. I wish you luck with your friend. I hope you may take the chance to share EMF with him. I know he may shut it out. I say, a open mind would consider what he may be getting into.

I have a long history of being in the school with parents and family. It will destroy relationships! It will destroy lives in agonizing ways. I remember a quote from Ramtha early in the teachings, which I at the time believed. " You commit to paying a mortgage every month to own your home. Why can you not commit to me?" I thought I would master my life and I am privleged to learn this masterful knowledge. It stripped most of all i ever knew in the school of all their money and dreams! The reality becomes J.z.'s dream. Nothing in that individuals dream really exists after a while. Mastery, yet to see any one really demonstrate a miracle. You here about it, always someone else. For instance the master generals can see and demonstrate the discapline of cards. Come to find they were so hard pressed they learned to count cards. They were to be fired if they did not do it. Desperation and cheating to decieve. Not to mention a close friend of mine watched the generals toss out a few rubber bands and paper clips during discaplines. He no longer attends and questioned already since he peaked at the time of intense discaplines.

Just a strong warning to you and your friend! I hate to see people get lost in this trap.

ex · Unread post by ex » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:24 am

hi sandy. we may not know whats going on in your particular case. 20 years just on the fence sounds strange. so he was on events is a current student. you don't have to shake jzs hand to be in the cult. since i was sucked in there i too react more aggressive if someone wants to defend rse. yes its possible to get the sunny side of rse if you r not heavily involved. but that's very rare. if jz has a good day she might be a pleasant channel. but that's rare since she is on a downhill slide. enlightenment there is expensive and mostly never happen. there is also to consider that the dark-side of rse doesn't get showed in the official ramtha presentations. some of the stuff reported on emf might seem far fetched for beginners and outsiders but they are true. also the ill effects might be recognized when its late and it takes big effort to correct them.

Ockham · Unread post by **Ockham** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:17 pm

Hello Sandy,

Some of my friends have become involved with RSE for five to seven years. For the most part, we are still able to speak with each other. The RSE indoctrination does frequently get in the way. I really get tired of the resistance to having a constructive conversation about anything RSE. It seems like the RSE dogma is take it or leave it; no discussing it or comparing it to anything else.

I am a bit surprised that anybody that's been interested in Judy Knight and/or the, 'Ramtha,' character for almost 20 years has never encountered any of the skeptical spoilers that relate to Judy Knight and RSE; they aren't difficult to find. I don't consider myself particularly well read, but everything I've seen from RSE's library of Ramtha Intensive series, Ramtha (white book) and other texts is virtually a plagurism of something else. Notably, there are shreds of Theosopy a la Helena Blavatsky, ideas lifted from L Ron Hubbard, Werner Erhard, Bhuddism, and pieces of Christianity. RSE isn't even a good synthesis of these ideas into a new coherent philosophy. I haven't been able to find it, but I am trying to obtain Vera Stanley Adler's book, From the Mundane to the Magnificent. It is one of the few of Ms. Alders texts that has not been reprinted. It has been discussed here on EMF that many of Judy Knight's elements of the, 'Ramtha,' character and her teachings are virtually lifted wholesale from that book. Knights, 'Blue Body,' is said have originated in Alder's book, for example.

The food hoarding, constant preparing for impending disaster, stilted behaviors of blessing food and water (not as in thanking God for it, but blessng the substance itself) and endless RSE, 'disciplines,' are likely to drive you crazy if you have to live with a hard core ramster.

You may also want to consider the expense incurred by somebody who is active in RSE. There are several mandatory events that must be attended every year. I thought the event coming up on February 16 has a prerequisite of being, 'current,' which means your friend would have had to attend at least an introductory event within the previous 12 months. The February 16 event also carries a hefty price tag of at least $1,300. I am a little suspicious that your friend is not being on the up and up about never having attended a previous RSE event.

Just the behaviors that transpire at Judy Knight's compound in Yelm ought to be a show stopper. There is abuse of Prozac, excessive drinking, dangerous acitvity in the, 'tank,' that is not moderated by qualified insturctors, verbal harassment, debauchery and undisciplined outbursts (quite the opposite of what RSE bills itsef, isn't it?).

You mentiond, What the (bleep!) Do We Know? Virtually everthing in the film is fantasy. The made-up story about the Indians not being able to see Columbus' ships is pure fabrication. Emoto's ice photographs: by Emoto's own admission, he selected and manipulated the picutres so as illustrate what he wanted. It is more of an art project than a scientific study. The supposed statistics about crime rate lowered via prayer were from Maharishi University and were deceptively manipulaed. Violent crime in Washington, DC increased, not decreaded as suggested in the film. I am still tying to figure out what point the producers trying to make about depression and its treatment in the wedding scene at the end of the film. The film is about 80 minutes longer than it needs to be to make the statement: life can be tough, sometimes you don't get what you want, and perhaps some introspection may help you find fortitude to deal with reality. Actually, the film seems to be suggesting that one manufactures reality from one's own neurotramsitters, so anything goes; believe whatever you want. It is your own private universe and it is all in your head.

freemysoul · Unread post by **freemysoul** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:28 am

Hello Everyone,
Ockham, check out Powell's Book's website in Portland, Oregon for 'From the Mundane to the Magnificent'. Last time I was in there they had two copies.
Welcome Sandy, and let me just say that I wish you the best as far as your friendship is concerned. Speaking as a former member of this cult, I can tell you that we were not only encouraged, but 'charged' (as JZ likes to tell her members) to either convert our friends and family to rse or sever those relationships. JZ has said repeatedly and continues to this day to divide friends, families and anyone that may 'retard our path to enlightenment', a typical manipulative technique of controlling the masses. I went as far as not just separating myself from friends, but saw my own parents as a roadblock to my ascension and future, because that is what JZ said it would take for me to 'behold god', remove the people from my life who doubted or questioned anything JZ said.
It has taken years for me to repair the damage I caused by my behavior that was not just encouraged by JZ, but required for my attendance and progress at the school. I have spent the last few years defusing the mental anguish and personal guilt I put on myself and others, just to try and attain what JZ claimed to offer, only to fall into an abyss of lies, along with personal and financial devastation that I am six years later, still reeling from.
There isn't anything positive to come from rse, I don't care what Lost says about the 'positive' that happens there, they have a right to their outsiders perspective, but I have experienced first hand the consequence of following JZ and applying her 'teachings' to my life, and I am here to tell you, the microscopic shade of joy one may get from their first event, is far overshadowed by utter devastation awaiting them after some time as a 'student' at rse. I have watched people choose to die from curable illnesses because they chose JZ's c and e breathing sham as their method of healing, when she told her members not to spend a red cent on health care. I have watched with my own eyes, educated, brilliant people go from productive happy members of this world, to alcoholic, desperate miscreants who hang on JZ's every word, both ignoring and oblivious of the obvious calamity their lives have become. I have seen suicides, murder, theft on a scale that would make a politician blush, and I am here to tell you, all of it could have been avoided if more people had spoke out and told the truth of what rse is and who JZ really is.
Your friend, with your help and some serious soul searching, has an opportunity in that you have found the right place. There is more accumulative experience on THIS site, EMF, with overcoming the effects and withdrawals from rse, and the caustic result of becoming involved with JZ than anywhere in the world. I hope you find what you are looking for, and again, I wish you the very best.

Kensho · Unread post by **Kensho** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:58 pm

Hello Everyone,
Sandy, the insight provided by all responders is very well worth serious consideration but IMO what has been provided by David, Ockham & Freemysoul reallly shines through as direct, clear and uncouched summaries of experience with respect to RSE and relationships with those involved with RSE.
From my side I truly wish you and your New Friend all the best and I have little to offer in addition to what has already been said; save for the following.

If your New Friend is, or does become seriously aligned with RSE, it is highly likely that symptoms of mental illness will be a factor that will accompany him into any relationship that he becomes involved in. These may stem from the delusional, psychopathic and sociopathic states promoted by RSE but are not limited to those; for he may also develop a host of others as compensatory mechanisms to the mind controlling tactics employed by RSE. Above all, while he is involved in RSE, he may not be open to realizing that he may have lost the ability to think clearly or critically; and that can make discussions on any subject difficult or down right brutal.

The important consideration for you may be, are you prepared to enter into or maintain a relationship with someone who you know to be mentally ill or who is likely to develop a mental illness; with the expectation that the relationship will be mutually supportive? You will benefit greatly from support outside of the relationship if the answer is yes, but this is likely to be difficult given that RSE also promotes indoctrination or failing that, separation from anyone who questions the authority of the character Ramtha or what is being promoted at RSE.

Your relationships with other friends, family and congregation members may very well be seen by New Friend as being a problem with respect to the relationship that you may have with him and you may be pressed to do terminate them; if only to keep the peace with him. That will leave you to "sneak around" to obtain support or face the wrath judgement of one who may believe themself to be a god...or anything else that he may proclaim himself to be at any given time. Yes, this form of delusion and change in identity is heavily promoted at RSE and forms the heart of what is promoted there.
"I have always been...(insert a god, a master, a christ, wealthy, healthy etc)" is what is running in the minds of RSE followers constantly; or is supposed to be if the follower is doing their 'disciplines'.

There are many sincere posts on EMF describing the turmoil surrounding relationships and experiences with respect to involvement with RSE and its mental manipulation confines.
If you have not read it, I offer a letter that I wrote to Judith that summarizes my own perspective and experience soon after leaving RSE. May it, along with the vast amount of insight provided by other members of EMF, provide support for you you in whatever choices and circumstances arise.

With love, Kensho

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=871

WofthesunEofthemoon · Unread post by **WofthesunEofthemoon** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:31 pm

Agreeing with Kensho that the replies from David, Okham and freemysoul are right to the bone and the truth of the matter, I do hope that you find them helpful, Sandy.

Also, Kensho, thank you for once again putting up your letter to JZ. So worthwhile reading.

My very best to you, Sandy and hopes that all the above information may clarify what RSE, and membership of RSE, is all about, and how it can impact on relationships and loved ones outside of the organisation.

My heart goes out to you and your friend. And my warmest thoughts.

WofthesunEofthemoon

Sad Grandfather · Unread post by **Sad Grandfather** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:16 pm

While I recognized the whole ramster thing as being a total hoax and scam, from the beginning, I have lost my daughter, son-in-law, and grandchildren because of it.

At this time, the youngest of the family, my grand daughter, who just turned 18, is the only one who has not become involved. She was dragged out there, against her will, 3 years ago, when my son-in-law didn't have the fortitude to stand up to my daughter's ultimatum to move to WA. She has another year of high school and, I hope she will come back home to attend college, and I have offerred to help, if she does. I seldom, ever, talk to any of the others because there is just so long we can ignore the elephant in the room.

Judy stole a lot of things from ancient religions, that would be of value, if you studied them at the source, but once she got them she has twisted the good things to suit her own ends, and from all I have heard and observed, there is nothing left that has any value, except to Judy and her scam.

ponysong · Unread post by **ponysong** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:00 pm

Hi Sandy,

I think you have found the right source (that is, EMF forum and website) to help answer your questions and give you a true perspective on RSE.

For me, it was a very painful experience to learn the truth about RSE, when I started a relationship with a long-term (>20 years) member of this "school". I chose to end that relationship, but maybe you will be able to take a different path, and continue with your new friendship.

All the best to you!

Vanilla · Unread post by **Vanilla** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:24 am

Its just awful seeing "Ramtha" on stage drunk. I feel sorry for your friend. Yelm is a cold, rainy place with nothing to do. So sad.

ex · Unread post by ex » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:06 am

would be his good luck to see jz at her worst. getting handled by staff who think they r the sub channel for ramtha.

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:44 am

Hello everyone
First of all...I do apologise for the late reply to your posts. I am forever thankful and blessed by all of your responses and perspectives. As I write this message my beautiful new friend is making his way to Yelm for the retreat. Although we haven't been friends for very long, our conversations have in no way been superficial. We connected at a very profound level, although we are on different life paths. I have told my friend that I am no longer seeking a spiritual path. The Christian life is my chosen path...and I thank God for everything I am learning on this path.
When I watched Ramtha videos online I felt no respect and no connection for the messages or for the JZ/ Ramtha phenomenon. They say "our eyes are the windows to our soul" As I look into JZ/Ramtha's eyes..I see no love, no compassion or humbleness. There is a disconnection which is flagrant in JZ/Ramtha where the mind does not seem to connect to the heart...I believe that the essence of our being is "love" and that same love, in its most humble form, is primarily what I would expect to permeate Ramtha's being as the “god” she proclaims to be, and reflect through her eyes, but I can only see cockiness and a semblance of superiority. I wonder if that is passed on to the RSE students through the teachings. Does that cause an internal battle?... between the heart and the mind? I am praying that my friend’s heart will take over and he listens to his intuition and sees RSE for what it truly is after this retreat. I have complete faith that truth always prevails.

Speaking as a former member of this cult, I can tell you that we were not only encouraged, but 'charged' (as JZ likes to tell her members) to either convert our friends and family to rse or sever those relationships.

Wow.. Free my soul.. that is a very strong, manipulative and controlling statement from JZ.. yet it is accepted as “logical” on the path to enlightenment.??
I am also very surprised that my friend has allowed me, a Christian, into his life. I don’t convert anyone I meet to my Christian belief as I respect their decision to be where they are at. I am open to learn how they got to their chosen path and willing to share my story. The knowledge that there is such a thing as RSE has led me into the study of cults and most of all question the human behaviour and the degree of acceptance as us humans conform to such cults. In the short time that I have known my friend , a lot of the ‘words’ or ‘phrases’ he uses I realised after reading the posts on this forum are from RSE.. such as “200 years without death”, “So be it”, “being red in the rainbow”, “an alone journey” to name a few. The facts of JZ/Ramtha have become his facts and he repeats them as facts such as the channelling aspect, the godly aspect of this entity as well as his own “divinity”, the doomsday prophecies etc. I have no doubt that he has got the capacity and the intelligence to think rationally and question.
I am willing to support my friend if and when he decides to leave RSE if looks for that support as I hold him in very high esteem. IMO there is an undeniable depth to the soul of a "spiritual seeker", a yearning to be a "better person" as we go through life and find the courage within to face our deepest insecurities and fears and overcome them. I believe that is where my friend and I connect, disregarding our respective chosen life paths.

Is Prozac still currently being used at RSE to help “drop the veil”?

I was shocked to read and hear about wine ceremonies and the reasons behind why it is promoted at RSE. I was even more appalled at the use and acceptance of Prozac!!!
I am so grateful that I have found this forum to be able to vent out all my thoughts as I try to come to terms with the existence of RSE and how it destroys people’s lives.
I thank you all for welcoming here and for all your support so far

Ockham · Unread post by **Ockham** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:55 pm

Thank you, Sandy, for sharing your experiences.

Argh!, those, 'Ramtha,' phrases over and over again. To me, being, "red in the rainbow," the way Judy Knight uses the phase, is endless spending on RSE paraphernalia and course work and never getting anything, except less wealthy, for it. Reference, (see the end note): http://ramtha.com/html/community/teachi ... dyDead.pdf One of the few writings RSE lets you see for free, but then it is really an advertising tool to prove you need Judy Knight's, 'school.'

Lucky for this author: http://www.lynncarneson.com/about-red-i ... therainbow that Knight forgot to trademark the phrase, "red in the rainbow."

For Prozac on the floor of the auditorium, I can't answer, because I am not a school attendee. However, the RSE stand on the use of Prozac is still promoted on the RSE web site now (February 2012): http://www.ramtha.com/newsletter/vol2/i ... er_03.html I have not found any more recent statement from RSE that is contrary to the 2006 statement.

There is a lot of sub rosa scammy activity that goes on at the RSE campus. Judy Knight has allowed some of the scams to be openly promoted at RSE organized events in the auditorium - the Omega scam, friends have said, was promoted by a guest speaker, and allegedly, 'Ramtha,' many have indirectly encouraged people to hang in even as scam was going bust. A few years ago, drinking MMS, a concoction of pool treatment chemicals mixed with citric acid suddenly became the rage with RSE students. MMS was an MLM scheme cooked up by a charlatan going by the pseudonym, 'Jim Humble.' SEA-11 water was also promoted by, 'Ramtha.' SEA-11 is slime that is left over from ocean water after a complicated set of steps to precipitate out the trace elements in the water. Of course, sea water contains traces of lead, cadmium and man-made pollution that might not be so smart to concentrate and drink. When nobody experienced a miracle after drinking SEA-11, 'Ramtha,' berated the audience for corrupting the discipline. Promoting water alkalizer machines was also done at RSE. About a year ago, a prominent RSE student named Robert died of a heart condition, and Robert's family felt Robert's condition was made worse by the alkaline water. 'Ramtha,' denounced alkaline water shortly after Robert's death. Robert's daughter was also placed on the RESE-connected Internet based talk radio-like show, Beyond the Ordinary, and she made a tearful plea for listeners to abandon alkaline water. The Ramtha denouncement and talk show appearance seemed to be an RSE damage control maneuver so RSE could be on record against alkaline water, designed to fend off any future law suits.

It is also just over a year ago that a French couple, ex-physician and woman living in Zambia, over-loaded on, 'Ramtha,'-inspired survivalism, murdered a policeman, went on the lam in the African bush for a week. The couple was ultimately killed in a police shoot-out. References:
http://www.pretorianews.co.za/manhunt-f ... -1.1012419
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/ ... -1.1014951

RSE issued a press release claiming no connection to the Zambia incident, however newspaper photos show there were Ramtha books, hoards of food and stockpiles of guns in the couple’s shack. The setting was virtually a mirror image of the caches that RSE students set up in the areas around Yelm, Washington.

Kensho · Unread post by **Kensho** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:57 pm

Quote: "The setting was virtually a mirror image of the caches that RSE students set up in the areas around Yelm, Washington."

Oh...not only in the areas around Yelm, Washington my friend. They are spread as far and as wide as are the RSE followers. Tragedies in the making...and such a wasteful shame of human life and potential for followers, friends and family alike; thanks to RSE.

We can only hope to see the day when this blight on humanity breathes its last...while offering help and understanding to those seeking to be free of it in the mean time.

With love, Kensho

ex · Unread post by ex » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:07 am

so your friend is a very active ramster. using a big amount of rse phrases shows how much the brainwash is sucked up. i still do not understand how someone can claim having 20years of rse contact and not has slide down the rabit hole or got out of there. i think there is a lot of manipulation from him going on. jz and her students are always profound. there were two ways when my ex partner came back from the ranch: either she was the know it all. her surroundings not fit to her state of conciseness. me a burden blocking her enlightenment. or she came home to the familie spreading her great positive attitude superior to our misly human condition. impatiently waiting that i make the right step toward my enlightenment, which includes going to rse, suporting the latest mlm scam she got into, or be at least the cheap babysitter sporting her busy [but nonproductive ] schedule. i wish you all the best. there is a slim chance for a ramster - nonramster couple if they don't life around yelm and contact to rse and students eases of after the event. but that is rare. if he stays and that is what he probably does after 20+ years. he will challenge you to go the right way, the ramtha way. be careful that the profound level is not profound manipulation.

Ockham · Unread post by **Ockham** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:17 am

Thanks,

My apologies - I didn't mean to suggest the UGs and hoards are only in Yelm. The doomsday preps are ill advised and dangerous no matter where.

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:12 pm

Thank you Ockham for the RSE link re: Prozac..

http://depression.emedtv.com/prozac/pro ... fects.html

Hopefully common sense will prevail and the facts checked out before any "mentally balanced" student decide to take prozac.

Ex, Kensho

I really thank you for your perspectives Re: manipulation and mental illness..important points to consider if ever a relationship was to eventuate. No need to worry for now

..let's just see what the outcome is from the Yelm retreat

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts and well wishes.

freemysoul · Unread post by **freemysoul** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:51 pm

Hello Sandy, and welcome. I apologize for taking so long to respond. As far as JZ's demands and requirements on the 'students', logic takes a back seat to control and manipulation. Logic, common sense and 'reality' are the first things that JZ separates newcomers from, as this makes molding a rational, thoughtful and intelligent newcomer into an irrational, selfish and blindly obedient sycophantic worshiper of all things JZ Knight.
Its great to have you on here sharing with us, so thank you and don't be afraid to ask anything you have questions on. Unlike rse, we welcome dialogue, and remain transparent as there is nothing here to hide.

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:06 am

Thank you for the welcome and your reply to my post Freemysoul. I really appreciate it.

Ever since I found this forum after meeting my RSE friend, I keep coming back to read posts and links. I have seen such a display of intellectualism on this forum it gives me hope to see that some RSE students do manage to regain their commonsense and rational thinking. I'm hoping my friend will also come to this point sooner rather than later.
Is it wishful thinking?? He has been involved for a very long time and only seems to have great things to say about the "philosophies" of RSE.

ex wrote:i still do not understand how someone can claim having 20years of rse contact and not has slide down the rabit hole or got out of there. i think there is a lot of manipulation from him going on. jz and her students are always profound.

I'm understanding that "sliding down the rabbit hole" means to be totally immersed into the indoctrination..am I right??
I believe that "Manipulation" from him as ex put forward, would work if I was seeking a spiritual path or an understanding of my human nature. The "red flags" were already up for me as he told me about RSE, hence the reason why I'm here.

I have no inclination to following the teachings and I thank God for EMF.

ex · Unread post by ex » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:40 am

i was slinging some references around or might have misunderstand you. your friends 1st event in yelm puzzled me. the retread now going on is traditionally for advanced students. that means he has at least two major events on his back, nowadays its possible to do the beginner retreat in spring and the beginner follow up in autumn abroad or some requireds r not seen so major nowadays anymore as in my time. the original 2 day beginning event is since about 12 years on tape and available per mail. basically: 15 to 20 years ago there was nothing online ,per mail or abroad available from rse other than the white book and 2-3 others or materials some friends were 'not supposed' to share.in this case the 'curiosity hook' is put out through secrecy and he would have been lured to yelm about 15 years ago. that why i think he is not honest about his involvement with rse. jz as ramtha is very intolerant and bashing mainstream christians believe because some ministers around yelm saw her as the devil or at least one of the wrong prophets. that might be a reason hiding rse involvement. but you r right just wait how your friend comes back. he might have fallen in love and doesen't know to handel deep emotions. according to jz they r the block to enlightenment. she prefers a a cold intellectual approach which renders her followers confused and ready to be saved by ramtha.but trust your own feeling and don't rationalize a bad gut feeling away because jzs' logig' gets her followers to override doubts in them self and for sure the once from friends. i wish you and actually every ramster a healthy loving relationship because that was which broke in myself from jzs spell.

Ockham · Unread post by **Ockham** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:09 pm

I have also experienced what Ex said about ramsters. I had friends come back from a retreat event in Yelm very changed after only four days exposure to JZ Knight and RSE. They were all covered with blue magic marker spider webs and didn't want to wash off that stuff. They seemed almost like robots - like experiencing cold tukey withdrawl. There was no hardly any talking to anybody. I think what Ex wrote is what happened: that JZ Knight filled then up with talk about who they were superior and eveybody outside RSE can't understand the instruction; perhaps outsiders are trying to sap the enlightenment away.

The event going on now in Yelm at RSE is almost nine days of close contact with the RSE propaganda. I saw friends come back like different people after only four days changed into something much more one-dimensional personality than before the event. The idea of the alone journy into the void is a big problem for me. People buy that idea and quit being functional, and might even lose jobs because of need to focus on, 'Ramtha,' instruction completely and doing then endless disciplines. I am cynical and believe it is exactly what JZ Knight intends to get every available penny from the RSE students and the sociopath in her also wants every available second to be spent in devotion to anything she says. The RSE instruction is engineered to that goal from the moment of first contact.

It could be possible to cherry pick some of the ideas from RSE books, but that is not what a serious, 'Ramtha,' student can do. It is possible to get materially the same cherry picked concepts of spirituality, cost free, from the public library.

ponysong · Unread post by **ponysong** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:45 pm

The event going on now in Yelm at RSE is almost nine days of close contact with the RSE propaganda. I saw friends come back like different people after only four days changed into something much more one-dimensional personality than before the event.

Exactly what I saw, almost one year ago, with my RSE (now ex-) boyfriend. He seemed a rational, loving human being when I met him, and I grew to love that person. I disregarded the initial red flags I saw when I first learned about "Ramtha" because my BF seemed so normal - how could he be in a cult? But all that changed after he spent nine days in the compound.

It seems that's the purpose of the mandatory annual retreat. If people don't go back and get immersed for a period every year, or every few months, they start to get back to "normal". They begin to regain some critical faculties, outside interests, human relationships.

freemysoul · Unread post by **freemysoul** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:16 am

This is a great thread. Sandy, I don't know if its wishful thinking or not to expect your friend to act like one, if this is what you are asking. I know this tho. My friends that are still part of rse, I only speak with on a yearly basis, if that, and it is never a real conversation, always empty banter, never substance. These contacts seem to get further and further apart. These friends know how I feel about rse and jz knight, so they avoid that subject at all cost. Add to this the fact that they see me as a failure, lost, ignorant, blasphemous, and wasting my time trying to change peoples 'truth'. So these relationships, which I hold onto out of my compassion and care for these people, who at one time shared a common bond, rse, have now become more like strained, distant, mistrustful and judgmental associations. We can no longer speak 'ramtha speak' because I can't stand the gibberish horseshit, and know what damage it does, and they don't wish to partake in what they call, "Idle chit chat", you know, share about our families and common friendships, "how's your kids," or "how are you" is always answered, "We are always excellent", even if they were flying off a thousand foot cliff in a fiery car crash, they would claim to be, "Always excellent". I've found that trying to save them from JZ, is like them trying to convert me back to rse, IT IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, and I have made my peace with this, heart wrenching as it is. They will die members of rse, and jz knights cult will have claimed 5 more beautiful souls, who at one time had promising, successful and compassionate lives, but were drawn in like moths to the flame by jz's empty, wicked words.
Maybe your friend is different than mine, maybe your friend is like one of the many on EMF, who found their way here in spite of JZ Knight, and who have reclaimed their lives from the clutches of a madwoman. But if your friend is anything like mine, and lost to the depths of rse's bottomless chasm, you will tire of their ignorance and lack of compassion, and they will tire of what they claim is your ignorance and misplaced compassion.

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Fri May 04, 2012 11:37 am

I wasn't sure if I should keep posting here regarding my new friend who went to Yelm for the retreat in February. So much has happened since then. I have told him about this forum and confronted him with some of the teachings posted on here. The accepted use of Prozac being one of them, as I can't fathom how anyone could accept teachings which encourage the use of drugs. We have had a few run ins as he now knows my position on RSE and I know his position on Christianity. We have ascertained that the friendship is more important but somehow the differences seem to creep up at times. I know that by reading the posts on this site I have lost respect for this school he attends. I haven't told him all of what I read here but enough for him to have an idea. I invited him to jump online and read your posts as I know that I am not as thorough as you all are, as RSE is a new concept to me. He hasn't been too keen and I haven't pressed on. He has since been to another week-end retreat in April in Australia, which is where we are from.
The friendship goes on despite the differences....
I wanted to ask...
What is JZ Knight/Ramtha's position on Christianity?
and..another question...
Are RSE students living overseas getting a watered down version of the teachings through live streamings?
So great to have this site to vent on and ask questions I know can be confrontational if I was to raise them with my friend now he knows where I stand...thanks again :)

Kelku · Unread post by **Kelku** » Fri May 04, 2012 7:44 pm

Dear Oriane,

my thoughts on your questions:

JZR's position towards christianity can rather be labeled as being anti-church and anti-religion.
The christ principles though play a great role in the teachings although often in a distorted rse sense.
So christhood is seen as the goal, .... becoming a master.

But Christianity in and of itself is seen as being part of the church's construct and is thereby negatively painted.
Religion is seen as the cause for the fall of men by taking his god away and placing it outside.
Jesus however is often taken as an example for a real master who has awoken into his christhood.
The church and religion have distorted Jesus' message for mankind.

Your question whether oversea students get a watered down version of the live streamings.....
When it's live they get the real stuff. When it's a re-stream, it's for sure edited. So are the videos that are used at events. Only the real live act is unedited for those who are taking part.

joe sz · Unread post by **joe sz** » Fri May 04, 2012 9:55 pm

if i may add to Kelku's accurate post..

JZ/R said early on: "I am Christ for you in this age."

by default of self-proclamation, ramthaism is the new Christianity.

But the question to ask is What kind of Christianity does JZ mean?
There are thousands of "constructs" of the Gospel, the Roman Catholic being the largest, thus the main target of all of the "new christianities."

But what ramtha is really saying is far more encompassing. Most new religions like RSE since Theosophy arose in the late 19th century claim to tap the 'perrennial philosophy' or essential tradition behind all religions, thus the mix and match syncretism that exists in many sects including the Bahai, Self-Realization Fellowship, and all New Age teachings. This essential spirituality almost always points to the Self and the Within and to personal experience as the path to 'ascension' or moksha.

This syncretism is a corruption of the basic idea Krsna's in teaching in the Bhagavad Gita that "all paths lead to ME."

And of Atman/Brahman, or the realization through a form of yoga [yoking] that the "drop" of the self [atman] is the very same essence as the "ocean" of being [brahman]. The goal is to extinguish the self into the all [nirvana or moksha or oblivian or salvation depending on your tradition].

RSE totally misses the elevated comparative discussion among the great religions and their scholars, monks, and saints.
What JZ and ramsters say about christianity or any religion is pig slop compared to the exquisite banquet available for those who care to look with an open, inquisitive mind.

Ockham · Unread post by **Ockham** » Sat May 05, 2012 1:01 pm

In the March 2011 Yelm event, Judy Knight or, 'Ramtha,' (I couldn't tell which one she was supposed to be at the time) went on and on for three hours of profanity laced diatribe decrying the Catholic Church. This certainly not a healthy way to teach about the philosophical differences between RSE's, 'The God I am,' and the church's teaching of Jesus role as a savior in the absolution of Man's sins. Frankly, I'm not sure that was the point of the apparently alcohol fueled diatribe anyway.

Joe really hit the nail on the head about RSE as a so-called school. You won't find any Socratic Method or didactic interaction at RSE. You get Judy Knight's theory doled out, period. Never mind that the co-opting so-called quantum physics in nonsensical and un-testable ways to prop up RSE's instruction. You take the teaching or hit the highway.

~~

Yes, up until now the live streams were unedited in that they took place in real time. From time to time, embarrassing stream transcriptions pop up on YouTube. For example, there was a clip posted where JZ/R, very drunk, went on for 20 minutes apparently talking about having a sexual relationship with the famous horse Sea Biscuit. RSE issued a take down order, so that gem is no longer available. Hey, that's Gnostic teaching, why wouldn't RSE want the world to see it? RSE thinks it is losing revenue by not being able to sell that clip to RSE customers?

Of course even the real time live streams are in essence edited. First the camera operators choose or are told by the producer what to film. The producer has control over which camera is switched into the feed at any moment, and can choose to mute or insert music over embarrassing moments. It is surprising how much video production can change the tone of even a live event. You can bet that the producer will insert an audience reaction shot so the home viewers don't see JZ/R puking all over the stage or spitting on the people in the front row.

The stream replays are edited. The 17 hour marathon of March 2011 was supposed to have been re-streamed, but only the first half was ever shown a second time. The reason was the drunken second half contained half contained hardly anything coherent, and it would have been too embarrassing for RSE to present in even severely edited form.

~~

Consider this:

RSE is a corporation, not a non-profit. RSE exists as a .COM corporate organization on the Internet. RSE does not meet the criteria to be able to receive a .EDU domain assignment from EDUCAUSE. RSE is simply a business that exists to make a profit for its stake holders. That JZ Knight sells a particular product is coincidental to JZK Inc.'s reason for being.

JZK Inc. pays income taxes. RSE does not qualify as a church and does not get to enjoy a tax exempt status.

WofthesunEofthemoon · Unread post by **WofthesunEofthemoon** » Sat May 05, 2012 3:49 pm

Quote: "And of Atman/Brahman, or the realization through a form of yoga [yoking] that the "drop" of the self [atman] is the very same essence as the "ocean" of being [brahman]. The goal is to extinguish the self into the all [nirvana or moksha or oblivion or salvation depending on your tradition].

RSE totally misses the elevated comparative discussion among the great religions and their scholars, monks, and saints.
What JZ and ramsters say about Christianity or any religion is pig slop compared to the exquisite banquet available for those who care to look with an open, inquisitive mind." Unquote

Fully agree with this, Joe.

Quote: "there was a clip posted where JZ/R, very drunk, went on for 20 minutes apparently talking about having a sexual relationship with the famous horse Sea Biscuit." Unquote

Well, what can one say, Ockham? Catherine the Great may have empathised with this, except I believe these rumours about her were unfounded. But, what does it say about JZ? Pretty sick. :-D

I go back to my thoughts about JZ and RSE as being the antithesis of all that is holy!

Not to say that I am a Christian, but none of anything which arises from RSE strikes me as a wholesome way to consider ourselves, yet alone to live our lives.

W.E.

Kensho · Unread post by **Kensho** » Sat May 05, 2012 4:54 pm

A pre-Rse event dawn at the Prairie Motel in Yelm. I was awakened by shouting outside the motel room door. Peering through the blinds and the rain that was pouring down, I saw a young man wrapped in a motel blanket, sitting on the wet grass with his back to the motel. "I am god!" he shouted in a German accent. "Yah... I am God!"
This went on for 10 minutes or so before 'god' retreated to his room.

That was a real wake-up call. The absurdity of it all was profound. Moreover, no one cared or bothered to shut him up. "Just one of JZ's flakes..." was all that I heard said about it later while checking out. It was embarassing to be recognized as another one of JZ's flakes in that office. From then on I couldn't say those words without recalliing that experience or questioning what I had heard at RSE with respect to gods, religion, Jesus...and Ramtha. It wasn't my last event, but it was the last time that I did not question what I truly believed about these things; and more importantly what I based those beliefs upon.
Personal experience speaks volumes but Judith and her anti-everything talks made it dificult to gain a foot hold on a particular belief or decide what to hold on to and what to cast aside. I've come to the conclusion that the RSE views on religion are designed to do just that. The specific distortions are not important. The aim is to remove from her followers any reliance upon anything but what she says.

With love, Kensho

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Thu May 17, 2012 11:22 pm

Sorry for the delay in my response to all your wonderful posts but been so busy of late as we are moving house.

Religion is seen as the cause for the fall of men by taking his god away and placing it outside.
Jesus however is often taken as an example for a real master who has awoken into his christhood.
The church and religion have distorted Jesus' message for mankind.

Kelku...it is exactly the conclusion I came to after hearing my friend express his opinion and saying that he was "anti-church"
It is an interesting concept because born again Christians freely study the bible without a priest or preacher to guide us at times, and as we do, we endeavour to keep all revelations in context, to understand the true meaning of the spoken and written words . The concept of achieving Christhood is definitely a Christian principle. It is about living a sanctified life with Christ within us. As I listened to my friend talk about the RSE teachings, I have observed quite a few similarities to the Christian path.

This essential spirituality almost always points to the Self and the Within and to personal experience as the path to 'ascension' or moksha.

Joe...I really appreciate your input...I am finding as I have those deep conversations with my friend re: enlightenment that the RSE path is very self -absorbed. In my opinion this path would suit someone with narcissistic tendency. In fact it would nurture such a tendency if it was in them in the first place.

In the March 2011 Yelm event, Judy Knight or, 'Ramtha,' (I couldn't tell which one she was supposed to be at the time) went on and on for three hours of profanity laced diatribe decrying the Catholic Church. This certainly not a healthy way to teach about the philosophical differences between RSE's, 'The God I am,' and the church's teaching of Jesus role as a savior in the absolution of Man's sins

Thanks Ockham...I am yet to get my head around how “enlightenment “can be achieved if JZR, the so called "master teacher" displays judgement and arrogance in conveying her “philosophical teachings” There is an air of superiority around JZR which reflects in her teachings and subsequently in her students. Whatever happened to humility, love and compassion?

I saw a young man wrapped in a motel blanket, sitting on the wet grass with his back to the motel. "I am god!" he shouted in a German accent. "Yah... I am God!"

Thanks Kensho.....As humans we want to believe that we are more than this body, that there is more to us than being mere humans. The bible talks about that the seed of immortality being in us. It all seems so confusing to have all the different paths in the world which lead to “God” in whatever way the definition of God is to us. At the end, it comes back to our core, our humane nature. In my opinion, if we can find a way to be in touch with our “heart, our “core” it will reflect outwardly in our demeanour and how we relate to others.
I did an emergency chaplaincy course at church a few weeks ago and sat next to an English lady who was from the Brahma Kumari group. Despite the differences in our paths, we related to each other at that humane level. We reflected respect and acceptance to each other. I thanked her for stepping out and being in a room full of Christians with no judgement. It was wonderful to see the Christians embrace her and accepting of her faith. An emergency chaplain is a person from any faith community who has compassion and love in them to step out and be a personal support to others who have suffered loss and trauma through disasters.
In my opinion, the major difference between the paths chosen by my friend and I is that one is about the “mind” and the other about the “heart” We have come to a point now where our discussions re: our paths have subsided as it is useless to delve in the differences. The reason for my question about JZR’s opinion of Christianity is because I hear the judgement as my friend talks about Christianity.
It makes me wonder…as an RSE student, how much of the beliefs, opinions and philosophies they hold are not from JZR’s??
I asked the question about whether live streaming is not a full portrayal of what actually happens in Yelm as it seems that my friend closes his mind or even makes excuses for the irregularities and profanities displayed in JZR’s teachings which are mentioned in this forum.
Thanks again everyone for your input and allowing me to vent

Kensho · Unread post by **Kensho** » Fri May 18, 2012 1:36 pm

Hello Oriane,
Trying to make sense of the RSE followers' perception of Christianity or any other reiligious path is probably futile. If memory serves me correctly, when I was a follower of RSE, the definition of Christianity had been reframed and reduced to something quite different than what would be commonly accepted. Thus debating the issue with an RSE follower might mean that the opposing opinions have quite different points of reference; spiritual on the one hand verses the power of control on the other.
In RSE, most religious paths were defined as political-controlling mechanisms designed to 'keep populations in line' and to deliver power to select political leaders. The spiritual aspect of religious paths was not discussed unless there was something that could be extracted, manipulated or twisted and then presented as some sort of 'gnostic wisdom' or RSE garbage.

In answer to your question as to whether an RSE follower's opinion of Christianity is founded on anything but RSE's definition, it is most likely that their opinion is based on what they have been led to believe at RSE even if they held a more convention opinion before RSE. This was my personal experience with RSE after having been raised as a Roman Catholic and converting to Buddhism after leaving home. In that time, the spiritual beliefs of my family and I, although different in some respects never created disharmony. Yet for the time that I was following RSE doctrines, my view of my father (whoose faith is unshakable), and his beliefs changed dramatically. I saw him as someone who was mind controlled and I was blinded to the reality that it was I who was suffering from an absence independant and freedom of thought. Through RSE's indoctrination and the thought distortion programing that I received there, the cummulitive effect was even enough to have me renounce my Buddhist path of 25 years and return the vows I had taken.

The good news is that when/if RSE followers leave RSE or people leave other financially motivated mind controlling groups it is possible to overcome the harsh judgements of others' differing spiritual beliefs and accept that there are many choices and paths with respect to spirituality.

One of the best memories I have post RSE and during recovery is enjoying a hot tub and spiritually based philosophical discussions at my father's home with some of his Christian community and a couple of Buddhist friends thrown in to round out the spiritual soup.
That was a few years ago and it really helped me to realize and accept that no matter the choice in spiritual path, that the intention behind following a chosen one in particular while openly learning about others, may reveal fundamental similarities with many others who hold faith in something greater than a mundane existence devoid of it. It seems that at that level, there is no need to be right and see others as wrong.

I wish you an easy path of joy and happiness.

With love, Kensho

Oriane · Unread post by **Oriane** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:03 am

Thank you Kensho for sharing your experience :) I really appreciate your valuable input.