Auggghhhh, I am here to share just how frustrating and infuriating and insidious this cult's programming is!
I am really grateful for having read so much of the family & friends posts here on EMF as I processed my own exit contemplations this summer.
In my first posts, I mentioned some non-current RSE dear friends of mine who were also investigating and thinking about the inconsistencies of teachings and the stories about people's lives we were hearing in the Yelm area.
Well, she did not speak to me for about 2 months based on an email comment I made - extremely uncharacteristic of her not to talk to me. It was a misunderstanding of a teasing remark.
Tonight, I finally find out that she reached a point where she couldn't really process the potential of Ramtha not being real...at least for the first years, even if she can accept JZ is faking it now. But what just infuriates me is that another Ramster pal had sidled up to her - someone who owns one of those ridiculous $1000 front row seats at the Ranch, someone that Ramtha married, someone that Ramtha spoke to in audience - and counseled her about the beauty of Ramtha's teachings and how detrimental doubt is to one's growth. ARG. I know we've talked here about that approach of using "Doubt is the Devil" at RSE but tonight it really sets me off. I would swear here but it's not appropriate for the forum. But G-D it!
That said, I was able to remember all the stories and even my own advice to others here at EMF... I did not start trying to intellectually debate and shake her mind free. My friend could state that she couldn't imagine her life if she stopped believing in Ramtha - it would impact all her friendships and her business. She said, it would be like a death or a divorce. I had listened long enough without debating to be able to say, "Yes, it would be. That's exactly what my summer has been."
My goal now is to stay connected with her and turn a deaf ear to insults that have their source in the RSE community. I'm in the midst of moving out of the area for a job transfer (thank God that door opened this summer - I need a change of scenery). But tonight we were able to find common ground about getting together at the holidays when we have always been at the same big party...as in what would I do when everyone started toasting Ramtha? Said I would probably disappear and get some fresh air. She knows I think Ramtha never existed except in JZ's head, that I have no interest in "convincing the convinced" especially at a party, and that if anyone asked me I would share my opinion but they would have to ask.
Ok, I feel better. Thank you for being here.
Not only an Ex-Ramster, now a Frustrated Friend of Ramsters
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Wakeup-Call
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
- Location: Washington
Wow.
What an incredibly frustrating time and path, if you will.
To endeavor to recover as well as being in the midst of Ramsters ....well, I know.
It is near maddening.
I think that scares the bejeezuz out of them
who wants to go through a divorce? even though intellectually they know it is the best thing for them.
It hurts.
It's humuliating.
It's difficult.
It's not comfortable in the least.
I, for one, am happy you have the opportunity to leave.
The change of scenery will be the best thing for you.
I think your approach of "uh huh. yes. I can see that", etc
along with your ability to have remarked "yes, that is what my summer was like"
is the best you can do for yourself and your RSE friends.
Keep being kind to yourself.
Keep us posted.
Some day, the light WILL go on for your friends as well.
And may they be fortunate enough to have you by their side.
What an incredibly frustrating time and path, if you will.
To endeavor to recover as well as being in the midst of Ramsters ....well, I know.
It is near maddening.
when people sense the magitude of the fall out, whether one is ACCEPTING of it or not,She said, it would be like a death or a divorce.
I think that scares the bejeezuz out of them
who wants to go through a divorce? even though intellectually they know it is the best thing for them.
It hurts.
It's humuliating.
It's difficult.
It's not comfortable in the least.
I, for one, am happy you have the opportunity to leave.
The change of scenery will be the best thing for you.
I think your approach of "uh huh. yes. I can see that", etc
along with your ability to have remarked "yes, that is what my summer was like"
is the best you can do for yourself and your RSE friends.
Keep being kind to yourself.
Keep us posted.
Some day, the light WILL go on for your friends as well.
And may they be fortunate enough to have you by their side.
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ordinarymind
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 3:15 am
?like going through a death or a divorce? ?isn?t that the truth. It took me a long time after leaving the school before I could approach the question of was Ramtha real or not ?.for months, I just let it hang there as I couldn?t face the question . ..I couldn?t face the reality that he might not be real ?too much of my life for 15 years had been totally influenced by my belief in Ramtha ?I had moved, left a job I loved, people I loved, resisted getting into any normal, intimate relationships because ? well, Ramtha had said, how many times do you need to be sexual before you own the experience ?and so I thought I had owned it and was now off on an adventure to ?give birth to myself? ?.and that was an ?alone journey? .. ..so how could I ever make sense of those choices I made if Ramtha didn?t exist?She said, it would be like a death or a divorce.
I can?t remember when it shifted for me .. .I can?t remember exactly what it was that moved me to this place where now I have no doubt about Ramtha .. .for me, now, he never existed .. .it is strange how obvious that seems to me now ?.but in those early days of leaving the school, it was far too painful a thought to even consider ?
Wake Up, I?m so glad to know you are moving out of the area and wish you all the best in your new job and new location. I don?t think I would have recovered to the point I am now if I had lived in Yelm . ..too many triggers there for me.
And Tree, I hope you are able to find a great job in your new location ?. I can imagine red flags going off for potential ?ordinary? employers when they discover your employment record doesn?t fit the ?norm?, and your credit rating seems questionable .. .if only they knew how much this is exactly the norm for most of us with any history in the school.
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California Dreamin'
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 pm
Wakeup, it feels like we are paddling boats in the same convoy. Although I officially became a "non-current" student in October 2000 when I chose to miss a mandatory event for the first time in 13 years, it wasn't until June 2008 that I gave myself permission to "take my blinders off" and examine the "red flags of doubt" I had been ignoring for many years -- even the red flags that I had while I was still an active student.
My current-RSE friends are now in the process of attending their various mandatory fall events. A few weeks ago I told one of these friends about the "amazing" Glen Cunninghan videos. She let me speak, but did not comment. Then I told her I would like to send her a revealing document (written by Joe Szimhart) which cited many disciplines taught at RSE which are not original teachings but are age-old disciplines that have been practiced throughout the years by many different sects. This document challenges/invalidates JZR's assertions that the "sacred teachings" taught at RSE are Ramtha-specific and originated by Ramtha.
My current-RSE friend, who takes great pride in being truth-seeking, open minded and doubt-free, told me she absolutely WOULD NOT READ read Joe's piece even if I mailed it to her. I was really shocked (shouldn't have been) that she wouldn't read this fascinating document, since I told her was chock full of information I thought she would inhale and could relate to, scholar that she thinks she is. What I realized later was that she was afraid of being contaminated with any DOUBT, because when you are a current-RSE student and you have doubt, you believe you will be taken down by Ramtha and that you will begin to de-evolve.
This is really so very sad. Even when students acknowledge a few red flags (as my friend has done), they are afraid to examine the red flags because at any cost they want to avoid having doubt. They would rather stay in ignorant bliss and TREAT THE RED FLAGS AS OPPORTUNITIES TO STRENGTHEN THEIR COMMITMENT TO RAMTHA, instead of exploring the red flags and risking "Doubt is the Devil" per the teachings. I fear my friend is stubbornly stuck in the school and sees no other viable options for herself. For some students who are up there in age and tenure with the school, I think they would rather "go down with and ultimately die with the school" than re-enter into the mainstream of life (social consciousness).
When I initially found EMF and began to awake from my RSE-induced slumber, I still clung to the illusion of Ramtha as being genuine, and felt only JZ Knight was duping me. Over the past several months, I now see the fallacy of the entire charade and I have tossed the Ramtha character into the JZR pile of deception. It hurts so good to have awoken to the truth.
I am, however, still too humiliated, stubborn and proud to admit to my husband and family that they were right about Ramtha and that I was wrong. I fear having this thrown in my face randomly for the rest of my life. I've already paid a huge price for the years served under the RSE fantasy, and I don't wish to have my mistakes brought to my attention by my husband and used as ammo randomly in any future disagreements we will certainly have throughout the coming years.
Just glad I never made the physical move to Washington. I cannot even begin to fully appreciate how challenging it is for those of you who have already moved from Yelm/WA (or are in the process) which was a place that you surely believed was the homeland you had always dreamed of.
This EMF website is a God-given tool that is daily supporting me throughout the death/divorce of extricating myself from my RSE years. Each day I become a little more healed.
Thank you all -- Wake-up, Tree, Ordinary, and all members of this forum. Although I cannot put faces to your names, I can identify your spirits.
My current-RSE friends are now in the process of attending their various mandatory fall events. A few weeks ago I told one of these friends about the "amazing" Glen Cunninghan videos. She let me speak, but did not comment. Then I told her I would like to send her a revealing document (written by Joe Szimhart) which cited many disciplines taught at RSE which are not original teachings but are age-old disciplines that have been practiced throughout the years by many different sects. This document challenges/invalidates JZR's assertions that the "sacred teachings" taught at RSE are Ramtha-specific and originated by Ramtha.
My current-RSE friend, who takes great pride in being truth-seeking, open minded and doubt-free, told me she absolutely WOULD NOT READ read Joe's piece even if I mailed it to her. I was really shocked (shouldn't have been) that she wouldn't read this fascinating document, since I told her was chock full of information I thought she would inhale and could relate to, scholar that she thinks she is. What I realized later was that she was afraid of being contaminated with any DOUBT, because when you are a current-RSE student and you have doubt, you believe you will be taken down by Ramtha and that you will begin to de-evolve.
This is really so very sad. Even when students acknowledge a few red flags (as my friend has done), they are afraid to examine the red flags because at any cost they want to avoid having doubt. They would rather stay in ignorant bliss and TREAT THE RED FLAGS AS OPPORTUNITIES TO STRENGTHEN THEIR COMMITMENT TO RAMTHA, instead of exploring the red flags and risking "Doubt is the Devil" per the teachings. I fear my friend is stubbornly stuck in the school and sees no other viable options for herself. For some students who are up there in age and tenure with the school, I think they would rather "go down with and ultimately die with the school" than re-enter into the mainstream of life (social consciousness).
When I initially found EMF and began to awake from my RSE-induced slumber, I still clung to the illusion of Ramtha as being genuine, and felt only JZ Knight was duping me. Over the past several months, I now see the fallacy of the entire charade and I have tossed the Ramtha character into the JZR pile of deception. It hurts so good to have awoken to the truth.
I am, however, still too humiliated, stubborn and proud to admit to my husband and family that they were right about Ramtha and that I was wrong. I fear having this thrown in my face randomly for the rest of my life. I've already paid a huge price for the years served under the RSE fantasy, and I don't wish to have my mistakes brought to my attention by my husband and used as ammo randomly in any future disagreements we will certainly have throughout the coming years.
Just glad I never made the physical move to Washington. I cannot even begin to fully appreciate how challenging it is for those of you who have already moved from Yelm/WA (or are in the process) which was a place that you surely believed was the homeland you had always dreamed of.
This EMF website is a God-given tool that is daily supporting me throughout the death/divorce of extricating myself from my RSE years. Each day I become a little more healed.
Thank you all -- Wake-up, Tree, Ordinary, and all members of this forum. Although I cannot put faces to your names, I can identify your spirits.
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Whatchamacallit
- Posts: 880
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
- Location: Earth
- Contact:
All...
Wow, what an AWESOME thread !!
CD, W-C, your friend is at least telling you the truth; it IS like a death or divorce to leave RSE. At least she's in touch with her feelings about it. Sure is sad/frustrating, though, that she's so close to seeing the full picture. What you wrote about her reminded me of something. This may/may not be such a good analogy, but it literally popped into my mind. Alcoholism. Drug addiction. Ramtha addiction. I wonder at what point one becomes addicted??? to RSE in a similar way as drug/alcohol addiction; whereby the person doesn't want to look at their "illness" because it's to difficult to cope with the next step that would be required if they DID. It's like a risk-benefit ratio, and the costs of leaving are just not worth it. Maybe that's true for all of us, especially when we admit we had red flags while being current, though we set them aside for known/unknown reasons.
I wonder what she would say if you suggested to her that if her "knowingness" about the teachings is so absolute, that she could view such as the Cunningham videos and not be moved by it.
The change of scenery, as Tree said, is invaluable. For me, perhaps in a way it kept me there longer because I lived far away, so I came home and got caught up in Life, putting the red flag issues aside more easily, perhaps, than if I had been living in the thick of it.
CD...just my opinion, but as you may have read before cuz I've posted about this...I think in the bigger picture it really doesn't matter if Ramtha is-or-ever-was-real. It's not about JZ/Ramtha when we step back and evaluate from our OWN choices, whether or not the Overall RSE teachings/actions/inactions (unfulfilled claims), are something that we agree with and want to support. Playing devil's advocate; if Ramtha is real, then I do not condone his poor teaching methods and actions toward students. Period. I tolerated more than I should have, but during the time frame (the last couple of years), when I witnessed the worst of the Forms of Abuse there, I had enough self-worth, self-esteem and value to make the decision that even if he is real, he's really not so very evolved; he's really an egotistical, immature, EMOTIONALLY VOLATILE, arrogant, pompous arse. That's not a good enough standard for me to allow such a being to be my SPIRITUAL TEACHER ???!!! Not.
As others have, I went through some struggle ABOUT my spirituality. It is a sobering thought to consider that evolution is accurate, and there has been no intelligent design (God). I'd already spent many years church-hopping and trying out assorted christian religions. I didn't (personally) find that to be much different than RSE, as that has its own dogma, too. Ultimately, I decided that I have a choice in how I choose to live my life. I can be a "good" person (or not), and not being good IN CASE THERE IS A GOD, but for the sake of good, itself. If there is a God (and I believe there is), God will know my heart, what a jerk I've been from time to time...and also see my good side. Imperfect, but pretty good !
I even asked myself, what if I'm wrong and the christianity thing is correct ? Years ago, I was "saved" as a christian; I was raised Protestant. It was AFTER that, when I became involved in RSE. Well, that's a broader topic that goes beyond the point of this post, but I've just come to the conclusion that God is so big, that surely a loving God would forgive me at the pearly gates just by looking at my heart. I really do believe that. I'm also open to the concept that there is no God and we simply go to the worm. At least, I'm open minded and not blinded by the dogma of any religion (no disrepect intended for those of you who are "of the faith").
In a way, it's kind of funny because I've come full circle now, back to what I believed in the first place. There me and my humanity; and there's God. Period. No middle man.
Two cents !
CD, W-C, your friend is at least telling you the truth; it IS like a death or divorce to leave RSE. At least she's in touch with her feelings about it. Sure is sad/frustrating, though, that she's so close to seeing the full picture. What you wrote about her reminded me of something. This may/may not be such a good analogy, but it literally popped into my mind. Alcoholism. Drug addiction. Ramtha addiction. I wonder at what point one becomes addicted??? to RSE in a similar way as drug/alcohol addiction; whereby the person doesn't want to look at their "illness" because it's to difficult to cope with the next step that would be required if they DID. It's like a risk-benefit ratio, and the costs of leaving are just not worth it. Maybe that's true for all of us, especially when we admit we had red flags while being current, though we set them aside for known/unknown reasons.
I wonder what she would say if you suggested to her that if her "knowingness" about the teachings is so absolute, that she could view such as the Cunningham videos and not be moved by it.
The change of scenery, as Tree said, is invaluable. For me, perhaps in a way it kept me there longer because I lived far away, so I came home and got caught up in Life, putting the red flag issues aside more easily, perhaps, than if I had been living in the thick of it.
CD...just my opinion, but as you may have read before cuz I've posted about this...I think in the bigger picture it really doesn't matter if Ramtha is-or-ever-was-real. It's not about JZ/Ramtha when we step back and evaluate from our OWN choices, whether or not the Overall RSE teachings/actions/inactions (unfulfilled claims), are something that we agree with and want to support. Playing devil's advocate; if Ramtha is real, then I do not condone his poor teaching methods and actions toward students. Period. I tolerated more than I should have, but during the time frame (the last couple of years), when I witnessed the worst of the Forms of Abuse there, I had enough self-worth, self-esteem and value to make the decision that even if he is real, he's really not so very evolved; he's really an egotistical, immature, EMOTIONALLY VOLATILE, arrogant, pompous arse. That's not a good enough standard for me to allow such a being to be my SPIRITUAL TEACHER ???!!! Not.
As others have, I went through some struggle ABOUT my spirituality. It is a sobering thought to consider that evolution is accurate, and there has been no intelligent design (God). I'd already spent many years church-hopping and trying out assorted christian religions. I didn't (personally) find that to be much different than RSE, as that has its own dogma, too. Ultimately, I decided that I have a choice in how I choose to live my life. I can be a "good" person (or not), and not being good IN CASE THERE IS A GOD, but for the sake of good, itself. If there is a God (and I believe there is), God will know my heart, what a jerk I've been from time to time...and also see my good side. Imperfect, but pretty good !
I even asked myself, what if I'm wrong and the christianity thing is correct ? Years ago, I was "saved" as a christian; I was raised Protestant. It was AFTER that, when I became involved in RSE. Well, that's a broader topic that goes beyond the point of this post, but I've just come to the conclusion that God is so big, that surely a loving God would forgive me at the pearly gates just by looking at my heart. I really do believe that. I'm also open to the concept that there is no God and we simply go to the worm. At least, I'm open minded and not blinded by the dogma of any religion (no disrepect intended for those of you who are "of the faith").
In a way, it's kind of funny because I've come full circle now, back to what I believed in the first place. There me and my humanity; and there's God. Period. No middle man.
Two cents !
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Wakeup-Call
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
- Location: Washington
Thanks for your comments, everyone. I really am looking forward to a new environment and not having conversations circle around undergrounds, buying gold/silver, propane refrigerators vs solar-powered ones...and getting back to having an interesting life.
Calif Dream: I got some help from my sister in terms of delivering the message to my family. I told them I was over the Ramtha thing. And she told them that they did not get to say "I was right, told you so" and emphasized how counter-productive that would be. Which I appreciated. At work, since I was very open about being in WA for the Ramtha school (and not wanting Ramtha to be ashamed of me in my light review because I'd been ashamed of him....what a "nice" teaching) - some people have been surprised that I would be willing to move so if they ask, I say casually...as though I've developed a preference for Pepsi over Coke..."oh, that - yeah, I realized I was in a cult for 10 years. <eye> It was interesting. Now I want to get back to living in a college town again."
Calif Dream: I got some help from my sister in terms of delivering the message to my family. I told them I was over the Ramtha thing. And she told them that they did not get to say "I was right, told you so" and emphasized how counter-productive that would be. Which I appreciated. At work, since I was very open about being in WA for the Ramtha school (and not wanting Ramtha to be ashamed of me in my light review because I'd been ashamed of him....what a "nice" teaching) - some people have been surprised that I would be willing to move so if they ask, I say casually...as though I've developed a preference for Pepsi over Coke..."oh, that - yeah, I realized I was in a cult for 10 years. <eye> It was interesting. Now I want to get back to living in a college town again."