Are Former Students Who "Talk" in Real Danger???

[California Dreamin']

I've been sitting on this question for several months. I'm just putting this out there to see if it is believable to you guys.

A good friend of mine is a very close friend to the sister of a former 20-year student and his wife. They left the school a couple of years ago for the same reasons all of us left. They initially lived in Yelm, but felt that their safety was compromised in Yelm, and therefore moved away and have left no means in which to contact them. He told his sister (via phone) that they are in fear of their lives and feel threatened, and while they were still in Yelm received threats.

Now personally, I never felt or knew of anyone who had reason to be "afraid." Then again, I can be very trusting and naive.
Are these people just paranoid, or should they be afraid. I was told the guy was "high up there" in the ranks of RSE, but I don't know if this is accurate.

Question: Should we be on-guard now that we have left RSE and are talking?

[G2G]

Freedom of speech. Truth always prevails.

[Whatchamacallit]

Personally, I would think most are not in danger. Then again, based on some of the tirades I've witnessed during wine ceremonies, and people being threatened by "Ramtha", who is to say what could be done under the guise of the big dude ?

I do know that EMF has heard from certain people during the time of EMF's existence from people who have posted and then been harassed by current staff/students. I haven't heard anything like that recently, but it has happened, with the most recent occurrences a few months ago. They get nasty emails, and sometimes personally confronted.

Legally, we have a RIGHT under the Constitution of this country, to speak ! We have a right to share our experiences and opinions about what we ... experienced.

[littlewiseone]

It's also a very natural part of leaving a group like rse to feel afraid for ones safety. In fact, any major change can evoke fears for ones existence, whether those are founded in anything other than processing the change/loss and will pass or whether there is any genuine reason to think they might be harmed is hard to say. I don't think there is any organized effort to harm people who have spoken out or left the school but you can never rule out crazies, you know?

Hard to say what's going on with your friends, maybe they knew someone personally who was making their life miserable for them. I would think it's more likely with a relatively close acquaintance/friend who may have personal issues than the rse organization themselves. Then again, I'm sure they aren't discouraging such things...

[tree]

From personal experience, It is not uncommon that for former students to get harassed by current students.
Current students seem really unnerved by people who leave.
In the past, they have followed me around town,
said snide things at the post office,
give even lovlier looks,
send nasty e-mails
and make crank phone calls.

After a while, they will leave you alone because they have way too much canning to do
and then become focused on themselves and forget about the ex student.

It is also a by product to be afraid and paranoid somewhat, after leaving a group.

Of course, unless JZ sues the former student for some stupid reason.

[truster]

I just wouldn't worry about it.
If you worry your attract that.
Also EMF has all the deceased people from rse on our side. They have gotten out of thier brain, become all aware again, and are mad at JZ's deception. Everytime one dies we got another good spirit on our side. they know the real ramtha didn't meet them at the light, but instead all thier friends saying we sent you every sign in the book to realizing jz is lying and you just believed in that cell memory b.s..

Also if the current students dont have enough power to realize the deception we got a leg up on them.
Also just tune into somewhere in thier future timeline when they have realized jz is faking it, and reap the thanks from then, now.

[tree]

I just wouldn't worry about it.
If you worry your attract that.

I am not quite sure I would go with this recommendation.
Coming from a military background, it is easy to see how and why you can say this.

Not quite coming from a sense of compassion for the individual at hand.
Not every one was trained to wear shorts in the winter time.

[Sad Grandfather]

As I sit here, after eating my Thanksgiving dinner of a spam sandwich, while I wait for my wife, whose Alzheimer's has worsened dramatically, to get up out of bed, I am hoping and praying that JZ DOES come after ME!! Since my daughter fell for JZ's bull and moved to Yelm, taking my grandchildren with her, her mother has gone down rapidly.

I'm sure JZ wouldn't come herself, but if she wants to send one of her henchmen, that's OK, too. Maybe they can trace her hit man back to her and she will end up channeling "ramtha" in prison, where she belongs.

Come on JZ! Are you going to let this old cripple keep typing disrespectful things about you and you phony god? You are a liar, a thief and a scam artist! You are lower than whale excrement!! I would LOVE to face you AND your phony god, anytime, any place!

[Optimystic]

As I sit here, after eating my Thanksgiving dinner of a spam sandwich, while I wait for my wife, whose Alzheimer's has worsened dramatically, to get up out of bed, I am hoping and praying that JZ DOES come after ME!! Since my daughter fell for JZ's bull and moved to Yelm, taking my grandchildren with her, her mother has gone down rapidly.

I'm sure JZ wouldn't come herself, but if she wants to send one of her henchmen, that's OK, too. Maybe they can trace her hit man back to her and she will end up channeling "ramtha" in prison, where she belongs.

Come on JZ! Are you going to let this old cripple keep typing disrespectful things about you and you phony god? You are a liar, a thief and a scam artist! You are lower than whale excrement!! I would LOVE to face you AND your phony god, anytime, any place!

Oh Dearest Sad,
I wish you lived close to me b/c you could join our family for Thanksgiving which we're celebrating on Saturday b/c it worked best for everyone's schedule.

"Spam sandwich" for Thanksgiving... My heart is breaking for you!

I know JZ ruined your life by taking away your daughter & grandchildren, but, please let go of your anger & let the One True God take care of you.

Love & Best Wishes,
Optimystic

[G2G]

Sad Grandfather wrote: "I would LOVE to face you AND your phony god, anytime, any place!"

My heart goes out to you on this and everydayt. But remember, you, too, have GOD within. That's one thing I kept in mind when I was at RSE, whatever jzrk would spew at later events - the God within me was no less than "rambles." "The big guy/gal" - is no bigger than you, me, or anyone else. So we can all stand toe-to-toe with "the big guy/gal" and offer compassion for his/her tragic situation. I wouldn't want that "karma" for anything. One of my sister's sent me the original Aramaic interpretation of "The Lord's Prayer." The interesting thing to me is it is so closely enmeshed with ancient vedanta, buddhism ideas, etc. I find the words much more comforting than the original, for the Divine is far beyond anything we can interpret or dream up with our minds at this juncture. Here it is:

"O Cosmic Birther of all radiance and vibration!
Soften the ground of our being and carve out a space within us where Your Presence can abide.
Fill us with your creativity so that we may be empowered to bear the fruit of your mission.
Let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with our desire.
Endow us with the wisdom to produce and share what each being needs to grow and flourish.
Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes.
Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate the opportunities of the present moment.
For you are the round and the fruitful vision, the birth-power and fulfillment, as all is gathered and made whole once again."

Gives one a quite different perspective. :) :) :)

Let us hold in our hearts the tears thrust upon India this past day, and be thankful our loved ones are still alive in this plane, and not trampled by those who would wish to destroy the Truth of Love.

Bless you!

[Sad Grandfather]

Thanks for the sentiments! I guess I was just feeling sorry for myself, which I do know is totally counter productive. I do believe we (to a large extent) control our own destiny, but not quite our own reality!

[Optimystic]

G2G said:

"O Cosmic Birther of all radiance and vibration!
Soften the ground of our being and carve out a space within us where Your Presence can abide.
Fill us with your creativity so that we may be empowered to bear the fruit of your mission.
Let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with our desire.
Endow us with the wisdom to produce and share what each being needs to grow and flourish.
Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes.
Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate the opportunities of the present moment.
For you are the round and the fruitful vision, the birth-power and fulfillment, as all is gathered and made whole once again."

I say the Exact version of the Lord's Prayer. This is the version written in Aramaic (the language of Jesus' time). I Love this version b/c it's what I believe Jesus would have said.

Thank You for sharing it with everyone!


Sad, you lost your daughter & grandchildren to JZ (maybe temporarily) & your wife has also "left" you due to Alzheimer's. You deserve to have "feelings" of hurt. You are "not" feeling sorry for yourself. You have too much on your plate!

Love & Kisses to You, sweet, lonely man! {{{hugs}}}

[Sad Grandfather]

Thanks, You are a nice lady. My wife got up at 4:30 and I microwaved us a plate, so I guess that was Thanksgiving dinner!
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving!

[Whatchamacallit]

Hi SG,

While it is sad and painful to see that you are going through such an awful experience with your losses...at least you are a red flag to others who are reading this forum.

Wishing you could find peace, at least, in knowing that you are far from alone with the sadness you feel due to your losses. There are so many people who have suffered due to the scam that RSE is. Yet, on the other hand, I also can't see a way that you could find peace DUE TO the situation you are in. You are not in a good position, and it sure does seem helpless while your family is caught up in the RSE drama. I assume that daughter didn't even call you to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.

The irony is if she could be like the rest of us who have left there, and looked backwards at the pain we caused our families, she would cringe to say the least. Can't make her look until she's ready.

We understand your pain...though that doesn't do much to help your situation. Maybe the children will cause your daughter to wake up if THEY see the light. That has happened before. There's no telling what could cause her to see the light. There are plenty of us on this forum whom others never, ever would have expected to see leave that place.

Being a sincere student isn't about being a "true believer". It's about one's personal character qualities. Anything we do, we do it sincerely. But, that doesn't mean we are oblivious to being duped; that's about something RSE can't control...not ignoring the red flags and daring to face the depth of Doubt. There is HOPE.

[Sad Grandfather]

Thanks for the encouragement. At least my son-in-law has not become a total ramster though he attended 1 affair in June. He is now caught in the same trap we are. When my daughter left for Yelm, 6 weeks ago with the kids, he was told to sell his business and all their property and join them ASAP. That makes the bad economy a blessing, since, if he can't sell it he can't move. He flew out there to spend Thanksgiving with them and plans to go back for Christmas.

I did get a ray of hope from her last email. She said she attended the last 'retreat' but did not participate in any of the 'diciplines'. She said "ramtha" assured her that was OK, that she was her own person and could participate or not. (Of course that was after she got her money so I can see why she wouldn't care). She said if she couldn't commit to doing all the diciplines, at the next class, she might just not go. That was the first she had ever mentioned about not being TOTALLY involved. That was after she had told me on the phone, a couple of weeks before, that her mother's Alzheimer's was her own fault. I said it was genetic and she could also have the gene. She said no way, that she could change her DNA.

[Whatchamacallit]

Wow, Sad ! That's really hopeful !!

I do know people who have quit RSE because they felt that if they couldn't do all the disciplines, they shouldn't be there. They still were "believers", so to speak, but they just set themselves aside...seeing that they may not be cut out for the work if they couldn't fully participate. This is very good news ! If she's wavering with this reasoning, she is not likely to last real long; certainly unlikely she'll keep it up for years, because the pressure will only get worse. Do more, more, more, go to more events, etc. The carrot is ALWAYS kept beyond one's reach. Even the inner circle fanatics are not God-man/woman-realized, as they say. Let's all hope that your daughter realizes just how HUMAN she really is, soon !!!!

As for your wife...you might not want to do this but I am very serious...next time to chat with your daughter, then you might simply say to her something like, "You believe you have the power to heal. I'm sure your mother and I would appreciate it if you would send healing energy to her to heal her from the Alzheimer's."

I wouldn't fight with her about it. I'd just plant the seed and leave it alone. She's so powerful of a Goddess, that she can over ride even your wife's "creation" of having Alzheimer's.

Gee, wonder why daughter created not being able to commit to doing all the disciplines. Maybe her God is telling her to get OUT.

........ SHE may be having doubts/thoughts like this about herself, though she might not be ready to admit it out loud yet. Leaving RSE happens internally before it happens externally.

Usually.

Others might think my advice is awful, but I don't. (obviously)
I truly believe that we have to meet people at THEIR level and talk their language, at least to some degree...or...there is no communication going on at all because the languages are too divergent. We would do so for a five year old, understanding the limits of their maturity to know. This is not different. It's just coming from a different angle than youth.

It's treading lightly, where brainwashing exists. Also known as pick your battles.

[Sad Grandfather]

Thanks for the encouragement. I have sent an email with a link I plan to send by email, later, to my daughter and the kids. Please give me your honest opinion of it. Thanks

[tree]

a big fat 100% I agree with whatcha here.
Especially appealing to your daughter to help heal her mother.
Just a one-liner though, as I think she might be taking the turn of getting out.

"it takes one to know one" and how one thinks while in the group is a great approach.

as far as your daughter feeling not being able to be commited to all of the disciplines:
I think that is a very good sign.
BY sheer pressure, and the Red Guard continually lambasting students to "get out and participate"
and bye saying "C&E is not a passive exercise in meditation", there is a HUGE amount of pressure
to participate.
I think when one is near 'the end' of their rope there, under ENORMOUS ENORMOUS pressure,
find ways to escape to their car or wherever they can.
And even there, or in their offices, one is constantly on guard for fear of being caught.

If one has even crossed over that threshold of 'the last straw', they will sit in their office (staff member)
or car and be utterly relieved. The next step would be to 'skip an event.'
At which time, again, with pre-event pressure, be relieved when they realized,
they are doomed and damned for missing an event.
They might even be able to pay some normal bills. :)

It will be THEN that an occasional critical thinking thought will cross their mind.
They might run into a former member, they might think: heck I might try NOT doing my disciplines for a while
and see what happens.
And the rest in down the path of exiting.

And PLEASE, again, for your grand daughter's sake, do NOT let your son in law
sell the farm (business, house, whatever it is).
TELL HIM NO!!
She might whine and cry from Yelm, but if she continues to badger him for money,
she needs to go out and "create her own."
Let her make her own bed in this regards.

Keep us posted.

[California Dreamin']

P.S. I understand that the Wine Ceremonies have "resumed."

[Optimystic]

Tree said:

It will be THEN that an occasional critical thinking thought will cross their mind.
They might run into a former member, they might think: heck I might try NOT doing my disciplines for a while and see what happens. And the rest in down the path of exiting.

While I'm on the outside, looking in...Have any ex-Ramsters experienced a desire to "leave" but was hindered by the fact that they are acknowledging the fact that they made a huge mistake and can't bear the thought of hearing, "I told you so?"

[tree]

.Have any ex-Ramsters experienced a desire to "leave" but was hindered by the fact that they are acknowledging the fact that they made a huge mistake and can't bear the thought of hearing, "I told you so?"

honestly, they can't think like that.

You have to understand. How can I put this. I was going to use a religious fanatical metaphor, but I shan't, the entire point will be lost.
Let's say you are brought up being trained in thinking everything around you is green.
You have been spoon fed this idealism for some time.
Everything is green.

One day, someone, maybe a co-worker or a person you meet in a bookstore suggests to you everything is really blue.
you think, "huh? what is the color blue?'
they show you books, tapes, "scientific verification" (in actuality, just bite sized blurbs) about how the world is truly blue.

One day, you announce to those around you, " I am leaving this green world and going to this world of blue."
POOF! just like that.

many months (or years later), you are innocently between your regular daily disciplines and going to very menial work
when a new acquaintance suggests the world is multi-colored.
Wow. you are floored.
you start to see hues of red, purple, orange, but....oh wait. I was taught it was blue.
few more months pass, and you actually start seeing glimpses of these other colors and get curious.
"could this be true?"
you start to Google about these other colors.
You are totally immersed in even the THOUGHT and conception that there truly are other colors.

One day, you are sitting in your comfy chair in the morning, and you look out, and the world is literally, many many different colors.
You now see.
You are entirely overwhelmed by just the sheer thought of an ENTIRE other belief system.
Day by day, you ingest these other colors, but just as much as your brain can tolerate. It can be easy to overwhelm the
nervous system.

Not once, in this process, do you have the ability to think
(UNTIL you are fully realized in this multi-colored world)
"wow. I was an idiot. me. myself. and I.
and not for the sake of what my father was trying to tell me.
It was me and my idiocy and gullibility the entire time."

This too, shall pass.

[Whatchamacallit]

I'll check my email again but I haven't seen a copy of the letter you sent me. I'll contact you....let me know if you get my note.

Whatcha

[Whatchamacallit]

Tree said, "What a great time to be an old timer, reading EMF, and waiting for huge contradicting blunder."

That's exactly what I said to hubby yesterday as we were going to the zoo ! Further, if Blue Body is up for the challenge, it might be a good time for him to keep in touch with his PAST because she may well slander him. We KNOW how that goes. She sure did a good job of it with Dr. Joe when she had an ax to grind (called jealousy).

[truster]

I heard from someone that the whitewind weaver poperty had a lot of trespassing in the night. They were putting up grid cards saying leave and all sorts of stuff. I heard the authorities were called in and the evidence was collected and documented.

[Whatchamacallit]

WhiteWind Weaver needs to start another lawsuit.

My two cents

[truster]

I had a conservation with one of the many people who live on the property and this person told me that it is not ramtha who was eager for the lawsuite but it was jz's passion.
OK here's the problem on why they lost. If the give thier power to ramtha they are still really giving thier power to jz for they are one in the same.
they need to see the real picture.
and if they had a copy of think and grow rich which i think was written before copywrite laws existed it puts them free and clear from jz's claim owning the idea of creating wealth from focus upon it.
and jz diddn't patent the word indeed for gods sake.

[G2G]

Truster, it sounds to me that you believe ramtha is reality. Do you?

[truster]

I feel the real ramtha is in no way connected with rse.
does anyone remember in early in 2005 where rse filed against a person in germany who claimed to channel ramtha and his folllowing had records of orgies and rape. I feel the real ramtha as recorded in the rig vedas was in no way connected with that group.
by saying one in the same i mean that jz is acting to be ramtha. just choosing a popular name from the past and making money off of it.

[Whatchamacallit]

truster, why do you think there really is a ramtha ? i'm honestly curious. i've heard a lot of stories over the years and if you're willing to share, i'd be curious to hear if you have had any personal experiences that you attribute to a "real ramtha".

i've posted before, though not for months, that i know of others who.......well.....there seems to be several categories of ex-students. those who think there was never a ramtha, those who think there was for some period of time and he backed away from jz because she clearly doesn't "get it", and those who think that there is still a ramtha channeling through jz. of course, people arrive at their conclusions for their own reasons. i find it interesting.

if there was no ramtha ever, and it were proven to you, would you be emotionally "okay" with that ?

just really curious. if you'd rather not get into this conversation, that's alright. i want to ask.

if there were a ramtha, i would expect that he has better things to do than concern himself with jz's "passion" for litigation and CONTROLLING other people when she can. she's a sad case, INDEED. of course, if there were a ramtha, he could have "outed" jz in a heartbeat by simply telling the audience that because he doesn't agree with her choices, he's no longer participating and he's moving on. the problem with that, is "he" has said a number of times over the years that "he" is leaving. that lends belief toward jz running the whole show and being extremely MANIPULATIVE.

[truster]

whatcha i feel you might be trying to see if you know me, maybe i'm off on that one.

Hace you ever played slugbug and noticed how all of a sudden vw beatles were driving all over the place. Almost if you changed everyones plans through time and space to adjust their agenda to be out driving and crossiing you path in reflect to your focus.

If you apply the mechanics of higher beings crossing your paths you'll make it happen as far as you need to percieve that even if ramtha doesn't exist. that is how i feel about it. if the terrible day of the ram is just some fariytale analogy i'm cool with that as well.

I was involved with a spiritual group before that used these same mechanics and they began working for me , then later i found out the whole theme was constructed out of the leaders imagination. all i thought was wow just because i believed it, it was working.

that what the secret is all about.

[littlewiseone]

hm, truster... maybe just because you believed it, you *believed* that it worked for you...?

[tree]

She's got huge competition now from teachers who cover the same territory for less money and who are more accessible . And these folks come across grounded and normal - they aren't channelling.

Hence, I am sure, the "home study" course.

I find a great contradiction in the "original" teachings of jzrambles in the first place because
we were taught to NOT DISSEMINATE ANY information out of our human mouths because we could NOT convey
what the 'great teacher' could without "putting it through our dirty rag."
(and btw, ever try to tell someone how great the event was and put a specific on it? other than:
"OMG! IT WAS THEE BEST TEACHING YET!!)
Well, then, Rambles appoints 'teachers'.
I know, for myself, I would NEVER go to an instructive session with one of the 'appointed teachers' because of the aforementioned
statement along with the fact I know all of them personally and they are pretty much ego-seeking jerks.
. Why should I? I would only listen to 'the master teacher.'

Well, the master teacher started getting lazy, imo.
At that point, I thought,
"Well, if JZ ever did kick the bucket here on earth , who would carry on? Video playings of the same thing? The school won't last very
long if that were the case."
But then it never dawned on me the entire thing was a charade.
She could give two hoots if RSE fell flat on its' face after her death.

There will be no "Ancient School of Wisdom" to protect and prevail.
It will shrivel up into a bleak handful of old-timers because the new people will see
there is actually NO PROGRESSIVE INSTRUCTION because the channel is d e a d.

[tree]

whatcha said: truster, why do you think there really is a ramtha ? i'm honestly curious.
truster said: whatcha are you saying you think you know me

truster-
uh...no. see the above question. why do you think there really is a ramtha ?
again, turned into "it's all about truster" thing again.

[Whatchamacallit]

truster,

if i put my attention on seeing pregnant women, i would suddenly notice them all over the place. why ? simply because I WAS LOOKING for them. simple equation there.

do i wonder if i know you ? no.

it would be highly narcissistic and presumptive of me, to think that i would apply the mechanics of higher beings crossing my path and it will happen. it presumes one major point that i don't even want to control; the desire of a higher being to want to cross my path. i might want to go shopping with Person A, but that does not mean that they would want to go shopping with me.

now...since you espouse the rse teachings, i will assume that your response would be that the higher being i would come across, would be from me, from my own energy. well, if that were true, why would i bother ? that, to me, sounds similar to playing parlor games. i could turn that around and say that a higher being could want to place themselves along my path because THEY can think for themselves and want to cross MY path...how's THAT for a narcissistic twist ?

(insert humor)

as for The Secret, i wasn't impresed favorably. i watched it and found a lot of holes as i did. at least it was...imo...better made than WTBleep.

truster, i think you should open up truster's school of enlightenment. you haven't left rse.

and that is your choice. it's not a slam. i just disagree with you here.

[Sad Grandfather]

hm, truster... maybe just because you believed it, you *believed* that it worked for you...?

The mind can do strange things. As my wife's Alzheimer's has progressed from just forgetting things, she has reached a point where she "remembers" things that never happened, but are related to the present. A car can pass us on the highway, and she will say, "That same car passed us the last time we were here." OR we'll be watching wheel of Fortune and she'll say that they had this same show on last night. Then she'll watch a recorded cop show, forget to delete it and watch it twice in succession, and not catch it. If I say anything she'll get irate and adamant that I am wrong, so I no longer say anything.

The scary part is when we are sitting in our recliners and she'll ask where we went, last week, in the motorhome. It's been sitting in the shed for over a year. Recently, we got a coupon from a credit card company for $25 at Red Lobster. We had not been there in years, so when we went to Jackson, we went by to get our free meal. She kept saying things like, "That's the same waiter we had last week" and "That man and his little girl were in here last week".

Because the "memories" are generated by her brain and she believes they are real, to her they become real.

I'm not saying that Truster has Alzheimer's.

It's just that if you want to believe something, it becomes real, in your mind.

[Marie]

It's just that if you want to believe something, it becomes real, in your mind.

Mental hospitals, governments, malls, the WORLD -- is full of people who believe what they want, regardless of the realities.

[G2G]

Truster - there never was a "Ramtha" in the "Rig Vedas." There is, however, Ram, in "The Ramayana." Just "Ram." Read it, the entire thing. Then please tell if you believe in flying monkeys. If you knew the "Ramayana," you'd know why I'm asking this.

[ex]

ramtha is not the ram.jzr not even know the story remotly because there r some nice things she could have used.

[journeythroughramthaland]

Truster,

"I feel the real ramtha is in no way connected with rse."

Yeah, you are correct.

In the same way that the tooth fairy is not connected to teeth.

[David McCarthy]

"I feel the real ramtha is in no way connected with rse."

Yeah, you are correct.

In the same way that the tooth fairy is not connected to teeth. Rolling Eyes

Thanks for that JTR, it gave me a big chuckle this morning.

On the subject of...Are Former Students Who "Talk" in Real Danger???

When RSE members are isolated far enough away from society and their loved ones.,
JZR will casually move in to feed off the remainder of their lives.
For me the "unmasking of Ramtha" has much to do with cleaning out those delusional fears.
Former Students Who "Do Talk".. shine a candle to light a path out of the RSE abyss.

it may also be worth contemplating...
Are Former Students Who "Do Not Talk" in Real Danger???


the truth will set you free.....




David.

[G2G]

Having been involved in some controversial environmental issues, I was advised, "the more visible you are, the safer you are."
I believe this. Be vocal and open up about the RSE experiences. What can she do? Sue? Then I go to the ACLU, for "I do not ever remember signing anything." And that's the way I always remember it!

[See&E]

JTR, Thanks for the chuckle also!

IT also has always reminded me of how the many documented cases of various people, soldiers, who have been living under war conditions (e.g. WWII, other conflicts) at some point... years... even decades after the war ended, slowly, carefully come out and encounter those who have been enjoying life for a long time.

Also, the movie, "Blast From The Past" (Comedy) reminds me of those who prepare for the DTC (TAH) (lol) and due to their beliefs and readiness are ready for the first opportunity to use, try out, and "live" the event they have been preparing for. In the movie, the younger generation helps set the parents free.

[truster]

g2g yeah i think i remember it just said ram if i remember correctly in the rig vedas.

I had a really bad health in the past, which i think was mainly from breathing all the oil smoke and other experimental pills and shots from the persian gulf.
my health got so bad i was unable to work and droped out of college and my million dollar company failed, i lost my house and had to sell my new vehicles. I quit working and my life changed to just surviving. I got really close to my god in that part. my friend named J. Bliss let me move into his house and I began my seek for knowledge of god, outside of popular religion.
I felt i needed a vacation and sold a bunch of my stuff and decieded to move to st. thomas to be a scuba instructor. While waiting for a reconnectiong flight in jamica they told me i could not fly one way to st thomas so i changed the flight to peurto rico. I checked into a hotel and threw my luggage down and noticed a book by brad steiger called "in my soul i'm free". this was a book about paul twitchel the leader of eckankar. I read it cover to cover and thought it was really cool for it was material i never heard of. then instantly i got a knock on the door to move to another room that was cheaper and had a better view. once moved in there i attampted to do a soul travel (dicussed in the book) to meet rama an ascended master 35,000 yrs ago. i got out of my body (my aunt taught me how to do this when i was was 17) and met some guy in a cloak on a beach and he told me to walk with my family and we were all 30 yrs young. then i was back into my body and i heard a loud voice say dont give up you have a lot of work still to do. I walked outside near the ocean and i saw all this glitter in the air everywhere around me. so i changeed my plans and went back to visit my evil crazy irish catholic mother who is banned from all family functions do to her constant curses. it is terrible to be under her roof so i spent most of my time at the college library reading all the eckankar books. during this time i brought back to life 3 dead animals, began seeing spirits and many more things. so i moved to minneapolis to be close to the teachings at thier temple. i showed up with $20 in my pocket. i instantly met some guy who gave me a job then he looked at me after i got the job and said i"m moving and then said rama, and walked off.
ok so here is the topic of the post from much reflect on from what i can gather. because i believed rama was helping me my day dreams provided the experience of that.
The mechanics of eckankar involve a monthly discourses where you are given names of people who guard etheric cities and the password to get in and visit the libraries to learn at. I will say i had some amazing dreams and amazing dream signs and daydream experiences. But i began to wonder if because i believed in them i was making it happen and that made several people in eckankar mad. I would say what is the final initiation, where at my deepest level i'm god and i made it happen and not the list of eckmasters who help out the students(rama was one of the listed eckmasters).eck=light, kar=sound;light and sound=the holographic experience of the dream reality.
then i heard jz on coast to coast and wondered if it was for real so i began to research it and found out about the fake or maybe real rama in germany who was reported to have many rapes and orgies in his school.
so anyway i read most of the books from rse and at my beginners event i noticed jz could not keep her stories straight and sometimes she as channeling ramtha would speak as if she was jz ist person,then catch herself. Instant red flags went up, then i was fed that cell memory b.s.
so if a current student student is believing that ramtha is going to send them a runner, most likely the student will create that experience, if other than that jz will imagine it and create the experience instead while laighing at her nieve students believing it was an ascended master who created the runner.

a lot of people at eckankar know paul twitchel created the mechanics of this group from cut and paste events he gathered while studying at india. but they like me realized that it was them who created the experience and love thier night and day dreams from a lofty angle. some leave and some stay. the people at eckankar were a much better group of people than rse,
I choose not to belong to groups anymore. I love my own views to much to join the bandwagon. riding passenger seat will often get one lost when getting behind the steering wheel themself.