starting recovery and beyond

If you are new to this forum and are looking for information that is particularly helpful and relevant to those who have recently left RSE and are starting their recovery process, this is a good place to start.
Rooster
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starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Wed May 02, 2012 6:40 am

Hi all,
I was not too sure if this should be under family or recovery. Iam not starting my recovery as I have been out of the school for many years. I am thinking I may need counseling of sort. I seem to be hitting a wall.
My situation being my parents are thirty years maybe beyond, solid patrons of RSE. I have agreed even flowed along with their beliefs and knowledge of the school. I was raised with RSE knowledge. There comes a time when it just becomes more than you can withstand. I am Now living my own life. I have a daughter of my own and a husband. He never really knew much about RSE, but enough to know it was a cult.
I had to take my stand. I just wanted to talk with my parents one night. Ramtha was the only subject, as most of the time. "Uncle Ramtha" I would tell my husband. I have not attended for many years and made excuses to my family until now. I told them, I think J.Z. is a fraud and I do not believe in the teachings and I do not want my daughter learning them.
Many situations have been coming up. Education of my daughter being one. They do not think education is important as the world will be different. She will not need it as history and the system is incorrect any way. She will be her own god and can do anything and know it.
My daughter has had some serious health problems, being my family is well educated in the health field have asked for advice. Mistake! All is good they will heal her.
I find it so hard right now. I can not agree with them or listen to the constant bable. I do not want to war with my parents. At the same time I love them so much! What do you do? I am lost in a way to deal with it any more. any sugestions?

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Sad Grandfather
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed May 02, 2012 1:47 pm

Hi, Rooster. I can definitely sympathize. My daughter found "ramtha" on the internet several years ago, and eventually dragged her whole family, including my 2 grandchildren, out to Yelm. I haven't seen any of them in 3 years. I was keeping in contact with them by email and on special occasions by phone.

I had talked myself blue in the face from the time I first found she was involved. She got my grandson involved and he seems to have evoled into other stupid stuff, since he is in college. My grand daughter never swallowed the coolaid, and was dragged out there against her will. Thankfully, they let her go to public school and didn't force her into ramster school.

I talked to my daughter by phone, a few months ago, and thought we had an understanding. She would not try to discuss ramtha with me, and I wouldn't tell her how stupid the whole thing is. That worked for a week or so and she posted some new crap on her facebook page, http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... 393&ref=ts about "galactic channeling" and I posted my opinion. I haven't heard from her since.

My grand daughter is involved in equestrian things, through her high school, and seems to have adjusted, somewhat, to her situation, but has said, through email and facebook, that her family is supposed to make a trip back to Mississippi, this spring, so she can visit MSU, where she says she wants to go to college, when she graduates, next year. I don't know if they will return, but am prepared to send her a plane ticket, if they are not all coming.

Well, enough about me. I think it is time to be straight with your parents, and make the break, if necessary. Lay down your ground rules and force them to make the decision. You have to think of YOUR futere, and that of your daughter. She will never have a life of her own, unless you get her away from the influence of your parents and Judith. Hopefully, this will shake your parents back to their senses, but from my experience with my daughter, the chances are slim. It's time to think of your own family, and your daughter, and get as far away from the ramster scene as possible. Good luck!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

ex
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by ex » Wed May 02, 2012 4:10 pm

that's the toughest place i ever heard of. for goods sake the parents should be the more matured ones. your family and your kid comes first you left the nest and build already a new one. as we sadly all know there is only a slim chance that long term students wake up. but why not pushing for it? good luck to you. hopefully your kid can recover. the healing efforts will not harm, they r actually a display of love like: i pray for you, as long as you look out for REAL solutions. dissagrements between grown up kids and parents r quite normal. if you would not have rse you might have a different one. like in all conflicts try to be the wiser one.

Ockham
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Ockham » Thu May 03, 2012 2:28 am

My best wishes for a good resolution, Rooster. This issue is a tough one!

Here's my personal opinion: When you and your husband were wed, you became one. Your daughter is of your blood line and equal parts of you and your husband. As such your daughter is closer to you and your husband than the grandparents. You and your husband should be the one to see to the best upbringing of your daughter. How does your husband feel about Ramtha? Is he OK with exposing your daughter to the stories? The grandparents need to learn to butt out.

Depending on your daughter's age, perhaps you can explain her grandparents' stories about Uncle Ramtha are make believe the way some people like to pretend about dragons and unicorns. I bet she'll understand in a blink.

Don't believe for a second that focusing, intending or some other RSE crap is a viable substitute for professional scientific medical care. There is room for non scientific holistic care in a treatment program, it is not the program. Take 'Sir' Richard - supposedly closer to Ramtha than many people - as a counter example. Richard chose to pin his hope on RSE discplines and alkaline water rather than getting medical treatment. Richard paid for his bad decision with a fatal heart attack.

Rooster
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Thu May 03, 2012 7:32 am

Thank you, again so much!
I have made a decision. It is just too unhealthy to have Ramtha in my life. I know confronting my parents was advised against, but I just had to. They will have to put their beliefs aside and keep it to themselves or not be a part of ours. It is hard, but I can not risk the vunerability of my daughter and my own sanity.

My daughter will be okay, she just has to go through another major surgery. After learning today she should be fine after. It is sad as my father once was a very intellegent man that would have helped in important medical situations/questions. Now it seems all he can do is roboticly speak rse.

Sad Grandfather. Just be there, and for your granddaughter. She in a place where she will have little direction and few to get answers from. It at least for me, seemed not much different from growing up as a child of drug addicts. You can not go to a parent for advice when their mind is so far gone. She will need someone to help with good decisions to, make it in the real world. I sure hope they all come around and wake up. That Galactic channeling I have seen. My Mom subscibes to some news letter. She has sent them to me. I delete them as they must be from another planet! It is the same concept of how the world will change to unicorns, fairies and aliens added. The whole Nesara concept is also a part of the whole money making scheme.

Thank you, all again :-)

Kelku
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Kelku » Thu May 03, 2012 8:37 am

You go, Rooster.

And be happy and proud about your wise decision.... it might be a rough ride now but I am sure that it'll feel much better really quickly.
And as for your parents. If their place of love is bigger than the rse mindset they'll still be there with you and your familiy.
And if not, the mother lioness in you is awake. :P

Much, much love on your way.
Kelku
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

joe sz
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by joe sz » Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 am

rooster

quite a story you have. no easy answer but if this helps, up to 90% of kids that grew up in high/bizarre demand cults like the Hare Krishna, Children of God, Church Universal and Triumphant, Transcendental Meditation, Scientology, Unarius Society, or World Wide Church of God defect from cult teachings by the time they reach late teens or early 20s. This says a lot about most "new religious movements" that collide with AND degrade social and educational norms in the surrounding culture. Human instinct reveals itself during the adult identity formation stage which usually includes some rebellion against the elders in any family. But kids with potentially healthy brains will rebel even more when finally realizing how degraded their parents' belief systems are. Almost all of Rev Moon's kids rebelled but some stay loyal not because they believe but because of the incredible financial perks. All of Eliz Prophet's kids eventually defected.

If the degradation remains fixed or worsens, the high demand part of the cult usually implodes with the death of the founders and the remaining group tends to relax the rebelliousness and will merge back into society while retaining the teachings. This happened to the old I AM cult and Christian Science as they no longer have a charismatic leader. Christian Scientists might still avoid medical treatment but most will go to a doctor in dire circumstances and not let their children die of treatable diseases, eg.

You are a SGA or 'second generation adult' cult survivor. The research shows that there are special recovery needs for SGAs, very different from those who joined a cult as an adult. World view confusion is more marked in SGAs as they have no "sane" past to go back to, so to speak, so sanity is more about adapting to what feels and proves to be sane in the surrounding culture. Then, as you mention, most SGAs have to deal with adult parents who are yet ingrained in the cult, where adult joiners do not. The latter tend to work through embarrassment issues and apologies regarding family and friends they used to "judge" and devalue when in the cult.

I may have pointed this research out before, but this might help:
http://www.dallascult.com/index.php?page_id=278
i know this author..good book. Jayanti's parents were part of Sri Chinmoy cult
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0307393925/

This book by Erin Prophet is a decent read:
http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Daughter ... 294&sr=1-1

read some of the reviews by SGAs:
http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Daughter ... ewpoints=1

Rooster
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Fri May 04, 2012 4:47 am

Thank you, Joe so much!
I am just so happy you all are here. I am going to order some of the books and may just help out with the reseach. I feel good about a hard decision. I already heard grow up! Lol. But I am sticking to my guns. The school has already robbed me of much life. I intend to enjoy the rest of it!

preeatenna
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by preeatenna » Sat May 05, 2012 1:30 am

Rooster, I was in the school for 22 years and i personally found the book Prophet's Daughter to be very enlightening. I could see a lot of parallels with RSE. The book is also a fascinating story and very easy to read.

My daughter was also in the school as a teenager. She got out of it on her own at age 20, when she was in college. She is now 36, and over the years, she has always been very forthright with me about what she doesn't want to hear about, and because of this, we have respected one another's boundaries and not let it affect our relationship. But it is not only those coming out of RSE, but all young adults that have to set boundaries with their parents. It can be a difficult and painful thing to do. I remember going through it with my own parents. If your parents are half way reasonable people who love you, you will all eventually weather the storm, and you personally will come out of it with a new self respect and control over your own life. Unfortunately it may not be possible to by-pass the pain, but it's definitely worth it in the long run.

Rooster
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Sat May 05, 2012 2:05 am

Thank you preeatena,
I have ordered the book. I think it will take a bit for it to sink in with them. I will just have to give them some time. They are highly absorbed. They have been in the school before it was a school. The stories of their main characters in Ramthas so called life time does not help. It just fed the egos and gives them more importance. I will be patient and see what becomes of it. It is just peaceful to be free.

preeatenna
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by preeatenna » Sat May 05, 2012 2:38 am

Oh dear, so they were close to the big R in his lifetime, too. No wonder they think they know more than a common weed. My heart goes out to you, Rooster.

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sat May 05, 2012 2:29 pm

Hi, Rooster,

Having been a 'long ago' member of an organisation which was but a small thing compared to RSE, I nevertheless remember the ego/self-importance 'draw' of being told that one was an exceptional human being born on this earth for some specific 'wonderful' purpose. I can tell you now that I didn't particularly believe it, at the time, in fact, such an announcement waved many red flags for me. However, it must have touched my 'not good enough soul' syndrome, as, even though I had left the organisation, when I became ill as a result of the emotional strain and other pressures, I ended up, as I shared with Joe Sz over Easter, like one of the crazy folk that turn up at his psychiatric hospital wearing purple underwear and burgundy fur coats declaring that they are some sort of Messiah! Not good! LOL But survivable. Children of such 'nutcases' like myself, have a great potential for survival, and full understanding of what has contributed to turn their parents into ..... well, whatever.

I so much wish the best for you.

W.E.

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sat May 05, 2012 2:56 pm

I should also add that children are often the most loving and forgiving of their parents, who may have made such terrible mistakes and been the most deplorable of all examples. Such parents would do well to wise-up and start appreciating what they have, rather than running after the nightmare illusion which JZ calls 'Ramtha'.

W.E.

Kelku
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Kelku » Sat May 05, 2012 3:34 pm

In my 10 years at rse I never got very far in indoctrinating my children with the philosophy and maybe out of instinct I never really tried.
My daughter did one beginning event and wasn't too impressed.... found her cards and asked , "what is the deal here?"
My son always refused to visit an event. He said, "Mom, if I wanna learn about nature, I go into the woods."
Checkmate... :-)
After my break-up with rse, they seem to be so much wiser than me, just saying, "We told you so, mom." And it looks as if they don't have any resentments torwards me and their father because of the way we made them live.
Nevertheless I can see the effects of years of doom and gloom teachings and preparation of 'safe places'...
They never really went on vacation with us.
They never had parents that shared a happy, loving relationship.
We were either busy spending our time and money doing events or by preparing for the apocalypse.
So even if they were never really infected with the rse-brain-virus they lost a lot of life that was never lived.
Maybe it'll only be later that they'll come to an understanding what was taken away from them and anger might come up.
This is one of the fears I am struggling with right now and the bad conscience for having shaped their childhood this way. :oops:
But for now I can feel that they are just relieved that the burden is taken from their parents shoulders and thus from theirs ...
Now they are part of the process of putting things back together in a hopefully more healthy way.

So, I agree, 'cult children' obviously can display a lot of resilience. :P
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

Rooster
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Sun May 06, 2012 3:37 am

Hi Kelku and W.E,

I do not have much anger towards my parents, I do not blame them. I am angry at the existence of rse . I know some have said ex students are angry. Many have said they are not, well I am.

As I said my Mother and Father were quite intellegent. We used to have a very good life. We used to fly to events. I am from the early generation of kids. Kids were not allowed to attend in the early days. Thank god they did not have the school for children yet. We were taught everything, tapes seemed to run 24 hours a day.

As time went on the teachings had started to become wierd. My parents fell deeper and deeper. At the time, The Ramtha character had said to leave your past, say goodby to your children. This is where I have anger towards my father. He abandoned everything and moved out to yelm. My mother followed after him. I was of age but still young, nieve and I struggled to create a life of my own.

I had kept in touch with my mother, I had not heard from my father for about a year or so. He eventually came back into the main stream and my parents got back together. The teachings had changed once again and family being of importace. Thier life; however, was changed forever. Money became less and less, careers were destroyed, The mind deteriorated even more with each passing year. They think they are brilliant, know secret knowlege, and are enlightened. If they could only see through my eyes, the deterioration, a child like, dependent mind.

The destructive effects, especially on the long term student is very hard to watch. I know my parents love, I also know thier dreams. I do not blame them, I know the powerful effects of mind control in rse. I have experienced it.

What is most important to me now is making sure my daughter has security, a good education, someone to come to for advice, a inheritence and never to fall prey to a predator cult.

ex
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by ex » Sun May 06, 2012 7:40 am

bravo rooster. if rse has to fear one thing r brilliant people like you who know the outcome of rse mindsets and can put a light on its absurdities. yes family values r totally manipulated by jzr. so is the conduct between partners.

joe sz
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by joe sz » Sun May 06, 2012 2:31 pm

The mind deteriorated even more with each passing year. They think they are brilliant, know secret knowlege, and are enlightened.
to me this is a form of pseudo-schizophrenia or a partial shizophreniform disorder:
The main symptoms of both schizophreniform disorder and schizophrenia can include:[1]

delusions,
hallucinations,
disorganized speech resulting from formal thought disorder,
disorganized or catatonic behavior, and negative symptoms, such as
an inability to feel a range of emotions (flat affect),
an inability to experience pleasure (anhedonia),
impaired or decreased speech (aphasia),
a lack of desire to form relationships (asociality), and
a lack of motivation (avolition).
One historian of religion and critic of Occultism, James Webb, described Rudolf Steiner as "schizophrenic". Webb was not diagnosing Steiner but was desribing a set of trasts that if nothing else, place Steiner in an exoctic emtal situation. Steiner believed he could communicate with 'supersensible beings' and that he could tap into occult forces. he taught techniques to teach others how to tap occult realms through Eurythmy, Illuminism in art, his lectures, etc. eg, Steiner claimed that the 'Christ' sent Buddha to convert the Martians! In some ways he was brilliant but like many spiritual "geniuses" much of his mental life was off the rails.

if you look at the list above, a few traits apply to Steiner as well as to folks immersed in theosophical-like groups throughout the world. Steiner had female relationships but there is no evidence that he had physical sex. he was 'remote' in himself. I call this pseudo-schizophrenia because there is some aspect of all theses traits affected by the cult experience. 'impaired speech' comes from loaded language--Ramthaspeak affects all expression. Relationships suffer due to the way a cult devalues those who are outsiders, even one's own children. Motivation suffers due to all focus on cult ideals 'away from this world', etc. Try to get a ramtha devotee to explain something about the teachings and it comes off like a thought disorder [seals, remote viewing, blue body, the Void!]

Of course, the average cult devotee is not truly in schizophrenia because the self and psyche can heal thorugh education, resocialization, and without medication whereas someone with chronic schizophrenia cannot heal through education and resocialization...they almost always need medication to just get by.

anyway---just some thoughts on this...

Kelku
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Kelku » Sun May 06, 2012 4:24 pm

Rooster, I think it's great what you are doing.


Thank you, Joe.
disorganized speech resulting from formal thought disorder,
.....impaired or decreased speech (aphasia),...
Right now my natural ability to voice myself is returning.
Last year when I was still doing my job for rse I recognized that often 'words had disappeared', like I was lacking the vocabulary to express myself... not an idea or concept but me as a human being.
Like somebody who suffers from aphasia due to some brain damage.
So at a time when rse-vocabulary had already become obsolete to me, I found myself lacking the words to communicate with the world around. In the sudden absence of rse language I realised I had lost the vocabulary to communicate as me.

To stop using "[seals, remote viewing, blue body, the Void!] etc., ect. can leave one pretty speechless for a while.
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

Rooster
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Mon May 07, 2012 7:25 am

Hi Kelku,
I think Joe would probably give you better proffessional answers. Just to let you know I suffered not having the language for years. It is so ingrained and speaking from your self and your own heart can take awhile to adust. I was the quiet kid! Always the quiet one! I listened more than I would ever speak. Thats all I can say but today, when something needs attention. My spouse says I will not shut up and I have learned to be quite aggressive when I need to. Not sure if that is good or bad. I just became that way, and can really speak up when needed.

Hey Joe, contacted your proffesional and offered my help. This is his response. I am looking so forward to his findings. I thought I would share.



Thank you for your interest.

I have recently concluded this study - but will keep you in
mind for future studies. I will be presenting my results at
the ISCA conference in July of this year in Montreal - and
then publishing my results with the ICSA journal. ICSA has a
great website (International Cultic Studies Association)and
a great network of people/professionals to be able to talk
to in order to help you through the process.

Good luck to you - I know it is very difficult being born
and raised in a cult and then subsequently leaving. I wish
you all the best!

Cyndi Matthews

joe sz
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by joe sz » Mon May 07, 2012 3:13 pm

r
I will be at that ICSA conference also, to present a talk on "intervention," in Montreal. I will try to meet w that person mentioned about who did the research.

Sunshine
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Sunshine » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:38 am

Oh my goodness Rooster... I just read your story and I cannot tell you how much I could relate to your relationship with your parents. I just got off the phone with my mother who no longer attends the ranch but is the most die hard believer in Ramtha, it just sickens me! It is so difficult because I love her so much. She has isolated herself from society and practices the teachings and disciplines to the point that she calls them "her truth".. I know she will never "wake up", which saddens me because there is just far too much of her lifetime invested. She will take this to her grave before ever admitting she may have been scammed. It is all so incredibly sad because I love her so much and it is so heartbreaking and at the same time I just want to yell "WAKE UP" but I see that she is simply far too invested to ever be able to wake up.. I'm know I'm rambling now. I apologize. I just read your story and I know you can understand.

How is your family doing? Your husband, daughter? Parents? I hope the very best for you and your family and if you ever discover a positive, effective way to deal with your parents, please share it with me. I cannot completely stop talking to my mother as she has not got many people in her life and I couldn't hurt her like that, I've done it in the past, I didn't talk to her for almost 8 years directly after I left R$E, but I ran out of there and got swallowed up by substance abuse/addiction. It was the only way I knew how to deal with the pain, confusion, isolation.. I was ostracized after leaving the school, by the whole freaking town! I am clean and sober today and have been for over a year now. I'm finally staring to do good in my life, went back to school. I dropped out in the 9th grade because my mother said I was a "free god of my own being" and didn't need to attend school. Uggghh. Anyways, again, rambling. Thank you so much for listening. It is extremely therapeutic to be able to get all this out, there are not a whole lot of people that truly understand our plight.

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Robair
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Robair » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:32 pm

Hello Sunshine
Welcome
Rambling is a very therapeutic and Free on here , most new comers on have done it, that’s What EMF is all about, I have said it many time, I am always amazed to see it happen when one come on here for help and everyone is there to help. It Always Always make my day every time. So Please RAM-ble all you need, one day you will also be part of the one helping . That is the Magic of this Site.
Thank you everyone
Robair
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

Rooster
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Re: starting recovery and beyond

Unread post by Rooster » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:05 am

Hello Sunshine,
My family is doing really well. When I told my family how I felt about Ramtha they did come to terms with our differences. They do respect that. Sometimes my mother forgets and will start to go on a rse ramble. I remind her and sometimes she gets a bit upset sometimes not. She did say she loves us and does not want to loose us. I told her that would not happen. We just need to have respect for each other.
I hear from my brother, that she often says to friends that I have gone off the deep end. I am okay with that as well as being so called ignorant. For the most part it has gone well. I just e-mailed the latest greatest stuff going on in yelm.

I am just so happy you are here. I am happy to hear of your sobriety! I too have had my battles. Keep up the good work!!!! You are far from alone.

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