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How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:02 am
by UKgirl
Hello. This is my first post. I have spent the last 2 days reading a lot of this forum, watching Glen Cunningham's 2 videos and I am sitting here now with tears streaming down my face feeling quite shell-shocked. I have been in the school for 15 years, attended many events, spent thousands on books, CDs DVDs etc, and I have a small group of 'ramster' friends close by who have become my closest friends in my life.

I have a lot of mixed feelings at present, anger, grief, feeling stupid, questioning my intelligence, beating myself up .... the same as many of you. But my biggest fear is whether or not to tell my close friends what I have discovered. We travel to events together, we meet fortnightly for 'Ramtha' nights doing C&E, candle focus etc, and we are a big part of each others lives. We share a common thread that our families do not understand.

I stumbled upon this forum while searching for some second hand ramtha resources and this link came up in the search engine so I clicked. That was 2 days ago and I have had chest pains and a sick feeling in my stomach ever since.

YOUR ADVICE PLEASE? Do I tell my RSE friends what I have found? Do I risk losing their friendship? They will be angry at first and I just know they are not going to believe me. I don't know what to do. There is a big part of me that in conscience (one thing that JZ Knight does not seem to posses) is pushing me to speak up. I love these people like my family, and I don't want to see them being deceived any longer.

I am feeling a bit desperate, probably due to the emotional turmoil that is swirling through me and is so raw at just realising all of this.

Also, I know the RSE staff cannot be identified, I fully understand that, but are you sure there are current staff with JZK who know she is a fraud? I have put a lot of trust in Greg and Mike's teachings at events (I am probably just clutching at straws not wanting to put the final nail in the coffin).

Has anyone else out there been worried about telling their friends and it worked out OK?
Thank you.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:44 am
by Rooster
Hi Ukgirl, and welcome!
I have a long history of rse. I have not told all friends what I think of (Ramtha).
I know who will not listen and who will. Yes, you may loose frienships. Some you may not. A true friend will remain a friend! A friend based on your belief value only, is not a friend to begin with.
I worried about this for many years. Even worried about losing my family. My family was upset when I told them.They are still a very important part of my life and it is working out well. Some friends never contact me, some totally felt the same way. I say be your self and do not be afraid!

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:40 am
by UKgirl
A friend based on your belief value only, is not a friend to begin with.

Yes, you are right. I have spent many hours pondering this whole thing and a part of me just can't believe it - or doesn't want to believe it. But I know I must because there is enough evidence. You have been around the school for a long time ... is it true that the teachers close to JZ see the signs and keep her secret?

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:27 am
by Kelku
Hi UK girl,

a warm welcome to you and thank you for sharing your story.

Having been a staff member (world-tour staff) for some years it took me quite a long time to speak out here on EMF.
Now this only happened in April and since then the most amazing things are happening in my life.

Like for you, most of my social contacts and friendships were through the school.

What it comes down to in the meantime is, that none of the bad things I imagined to happen actually happened.
It's all just irrational fear planted by the programming.

I deleted a lot of rse friends from my FB and I exspected some of my friends to turn they back on me.... to my surprise not one person that I considered a friend did.
Some are still holding on to their rse belief but I figured I just leave them alone with.
They know about my position now.... some just took notice and I could feel they didn't want to deal with it.
But leaving them alone, some are reconnecting, asking shy questions and I give them just what they ask for and not more.

Preaching ones new aquired insights might not be helpful but your honest opinion might be big time.
If you just frankly tell them what you think, simply providing your point of view, then they can think about it or not.
But you have then stuck to your own knowing and morals which is vital if you want your life back.
They might be shocked OR they even might open up and tell you about their doubts... you can never know.
I see people suddenly talking with long term friends just to find out that they were doubting as well just didn't dare talking about it.

AND... I made a lot of new friends, amazing people, mostly ex members, and it's just such a great development and evolution and I really feel blessed.
So there is a life after RSE :D ... and it's pretty wonderful.

I wish you all strength for your next steps.

Much Love

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:21 pm
by UKgirl
Thank you Kelku for taking the time to tell me that. Your advice is sound. I know I need time to digest it all myself as it has only been a couple of days, and I am still in a bit of shock I think. When I feel the time is right I will just mention how I am feeling and tred gently....just answer their questions as they come.
I am so grateful there are such generous souls here on this forum to help each other. I felt very alone until I plucked up the courage to get on the forum.

Step number one: pack up my Ramtha library and build a bonfire!
All the best

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:27 pm
by David McCarthy
Thank you Rooster and Kelku,

Dear UKgirl,
If I may also share this with you....
Thank you for posting and expressing your confusion, fears and questions, this action was a brave and important step in recovering your life from RSE.
It may serve some comfort to know that most of us here have walked in your shoes and understand the place you have now arrived at...
along with the daunting challenge it takes to walk the path of recovery from RSE.
You may be hit with frightening meltdowns, hang on for dear life and know that these will pass,
if possible step back completely seek out something in your life that you love to do, be it music, art, animals, people, chocolate :D , walking in nature...
anything that will allow you distance and a place to breathe, then reenter with new resolve to understand and to heal.
Reading the accounts of others on EMF will be invaluable..
Learn about the psychological dynamics of how mind control works in cults.
If at all possible therapeutic help may be of some help, Joe Szimhart and others here may point you in the right direction.
Each one of us has a unique process of recovering from RSE, the one thing we have in common is our humanity, the very thing RSE tried to devalue and destroy.
It's the saving grace of genuine love and support freely given and is the key to opening the doors of understanding to heal from the deep betrayal RSE inflicted upon our souls and lives.
I will explore your questions about JZ/R and her cohorts further along this thread.

Welcome to EMF UKgirl,


Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:50 pm
by joe sz
Hi UKgirl!

I can recommend a few things that you do for very little investment save your time.

give yourself time to absorb the picture that unveiled itself for you. Most of us on this forum have been there where you are in one way or another. I was not a RSE member but part of a much larger ascended master cult then led by Elizabeth Clare Prophet [now dead] in the late 1970s until I "woke up" in 1980. The immediate impulse was to toss and burn cult related stuff, then try to help others get "out." I had to re-buy some of what I threw out for later research!
I made a career of sorts out of getting people out of cults since, and i am still learning about how this happened to me over 30 years later!

The book Take Back Your Life by Lalich and Tobias is well worth a read...I know both authors well. ... 0972002154

A paper i wrote about the ramtha cult may help--it is available on emf.


recovery is the best revenge :!:

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:02 pm
by UKgirl
Hi Joe
Thank you for replying to me. I will buy the book and check out your article too. Yes, you are right. Give myself time. I almost don't know what to say to my Ramtha friends anyway so time is my best friend at present.
Very helpful words, thank you

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:08 pm
by UKgirl
"deep betrayal RSE inflicted upon our souls and lives"....

Thank you David. It is comforting to read other EMF members' experiences, sad as they are that we are all in this situation. I have had a meltdown and slept for a couple of hours afterwards. Relief. I will get the books recommended by others and have some one-on-one counseling to talk it out in person to get my head straight.

"Deep betrayal" says it all.
Thank you again,...I am heading straight for the chocolate!!!!

I look forward to reading your post on JZK/R and the staff down the track.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:24 am
by Virginia
Hi UK girl and welcome!!! There isn't a feeling you are having that we don't understand. There will even be times you will question yourself, even with all of the evidence against JZ. Know that is part of the program. You may go through "then what is the point of life it not this?" thoughts or feeling really alone.

There are a couple of thousand people in the school and there are 7 billion people in the world, you will have friends again if any of your friends distance themselves from you. You already have a couple hundred here on EMF. Most of your friends have questioned this too on some level. They have seen predictions not realized, they have watched a drunken belittling nut job deteriorate before their eyes and they have often said to themselves "but i thought Twinkies were BAD for us?". MOST people in the world, most people in Washington state and most people even in YELM do not believe she is anything but a fraud so there is life after RSE for sure. I have better friends now than I ever had in RSE even though I still have friends and family who are members. It is however very difficult to get anyone "out". You can only love them and live by example and be HONEST about how you feel without fear. The fear that prevents you from speaking is all part of the program of RSE. "You are not going to ascend like all the hard working masters, you are a big victim, you are the walking dead, you are lazy, you don't want to change"..sound familiar? Actually the sad truth is that the RSE members are stuck in a cult and have lost the ability to think independently or critically. If you add the alcohol on top of that you really shouldn't be too concerned with what "they" think of YOU. You have that all backwards in your mind. There are many many extremely intelligent and well educated people at RSE. A cult does not discriminate. In fact, our successes allowed us the money to enter the school in the first place and our excitement to learn new things made us needy for information. Judy is an avid reader and she is an amazing speaker and she has compiled a lot of information that was great mixed with insane manipulative tactics all designed to grab money and power. Of course some of the "teachings" rang true for us, i still believe in some of the messages even though I now realize the messenger was a fraud. I have come to enjoy the books from which she has stolen much of her information. This is not an overnight process. I suggest you be very kind to yourself and not beat yourself up. You are free of the ranch but the programming runs deep and it is helpful to let yourself not try and figure out all the answers to life this second. There will be more and more coming out behind you shortly ..that is a promise. With much love for you during this difficult time. Your friend, Virginia

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:12 am
by UKgirl
Hello Virginia
Thank you for making me chuckle! What a privilege it is to be part of this incredible forum. It is immensely comforting to hear from others and that they resonate with exactly how I am feeling. I know everything you wrote is correct and feels right for me too. I will certainly see who my friends are in this process - sadly. You are right, it is impossible to get someone 'out' so don't force the issue or try hard to make someone see what I see. Of the group of 10 'ramster' friends I have reflected long and hard what their individual reactions may be. I think only 3 of them would actually read this forum if I emailed the link to them, the others will just feel sad for me I think.

I took hope from your last words .. that others will be following quite soon. promised ...I hope you are right. This has gone on long enough. Surely she can't hold all the power and continue to get away with it indefinitely.

When I think of the universal teachings that what we give out we get back, it absolutely amazes me that JZKnight has been able to get away with this for so long .. 30 years? That really is incredible. I hope we all find a way to support a couple of brave current staff to speak out publicly with proof and expose this tragedy. They, and people like James who would know facts, who have seen her in her home environment are really the only ones who can right this wrong. Linda Evans has to be intelligent enough to know much more. She has traveled around the world with JZ and must have seen her in a weak moment. No-one can keep that facade going perfectly 24/7 can they? She must be getting help from those close to her. Over the years I heard Ramtha say several times that JZ did not want him to heal her so she could change her health herself. Of course! She had to say that to cover herself as she pretended and acted. AGHHHHHHHHHH!! Getting angry again ....

As I read the posts my heart breaks for those who are suffering so deeply. I hear the desperation in their posts and it worries me. She should be held accountable for this at some point. I know we have to release the victim mentality but justice has to prevail. I have experienced shock, disbelief, some grief and tears, a couple of melt-downs but mostly I am angry for the deception and betrayal of innocent people who put their trust in her. There is nothing so monstrous as someone in power who preys on those who place their trust in them.

Thank you again Virginia. I will write here how it goes when I decide to tell my friends. I love them and I have to at least tell them what I have found and let them make up their own minds ...about JZ/Ramtha and about me.
All the best, UKgirl.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm
by ex
hi ukgirl. good luck to you.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:09 am
by freemysoul
Hello and Welcome UKGirl!!!!
It was wonderful to read your post and be reminded by your example that others WILL SEE THROUGH the giant illusion that JZ Knight has created. I am very proud and inspired by you, and all of us who have pulled ourselves clear of rse's treachery. The responses you have received so far, from all these thoughtful and experienced souls is invaluable, and covers all the bases for what you must be experiencing, so I won't repeat all of their priceless and beneficial advice.
I too wanted to know how people who know that JZ Knight is a fraud, especially long term students or people close to her, could sit idly by and do nothing while she wantonly destroyed life after life............I came to the conclusion for myself that there are people in this world just like her, who are so callous and selfish, that the pain and anguish of others does not influence their actions. Also, some live half in RSE and half in the real world, applying the most convenient practice to the most convenient problem, justifying JZ's actions with JZ's 'nonsense'(teachings), and ignoring JZ's actions whenever possible. Also, there are those that actually believe everything JZ has ever said. I have a close friend who is like that, and although I may never understand it, I still have hope that one day they too will see what I have seen. But until then, I just hope and pray for them like I do all those still entangled in her pervasive web.
I am grateful that you are here UKGirl, and look forward to your posts and stories in the future.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:06 am
by UKgirl
Hi freemysoul
Thanks for replying and for continuing to be a moderator of this invaluable forum with David and Robair. This has literally kept my sanity, (I am not exaggerating), as I have not spoken one word yet to another living being over this torturous and sleepless week of discovery. I have spent many many hours reading here, and re-reading some posts just to make sure, and have come to the conclusion that there can be absolutely no doubt in my mind now, even though I desperately wanted it to be wrong, that JZK is a fraud, a liar, a trickster, an abuser, a hypocrite and a thief. I cannot change her, but I can change myself. I cannot change my friends, I can only put the information in front of them and if they take it they do, if they don't that has to be OK with me too. For 6 or 7 years now we have travelled and attended our 2 mandatory events, and then some, done every streaming possible and met together during the week after it to compare our notes and discuss the teaching etc,. I will miss those times together but I believe that the vacuum that is left will be filled with greater love and potentials as I shut the door on RSE and be open to new adventures. This forum has helped me so much to come to that reasoning. Thank you to all 3 of you for keeping it going and not being bullied by the RSE ranch to shut down.

I look forward to watching the demise and destruction of RSE, Judith Knight and the Ramtha facade with everyone here. How long will it take? Who knows, but I can wait!
All the best.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:01 am
by FreeNow
What is cool is all my old scamtha friends are still friends and have also left the school.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:35 am
by UKgirl
Hello FreeNow
That is music to my ears. Fingers crossed history will repeat itself with my group of friends. "The truth will set you free"
All the best

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:54 am
by Oriane
Hi UK girl

I met an RSE student and we became great friends. I knew nothing of RSE before I met him and he was sharing a lot with me regarding his beliefs and his master which urged me to research Ramtha. As I researched Ramtha I stumbled on EMF site which gave me a different perspective and more of an insight on what really goes on at RSE. As our friendship grew, I felt that I couldn't remain hypocritical by not divulging to him that I have been on this site and interacting with ex RSE students. I informed him of some of my findings on EMF and the existence of this forum. So far, he has had no inclination to check out EMF that I know of. Since then, our conversations on Religion and beliefs have changed from being very controversial,open and informative to being more guarded due to our differing opinions.C btw Im a christian) We relate to each other very well and therefore we have not severed the friendship. I still appreciate, respect and love him as a friend even if I have opposing opinions on JZR which I have communicated to him.
I naively believed that he would come to realisation and leave RSE or at least use his critical thinking to step back and question RSE. I now realise that it is not as easy as that. We are from down under and it was his first trip to Yelm in February although he has been involved with the teachings for about 20 years. The teachings are ingrained in him and reflect through his life and his self-talk. I have accepted that it is where he is at. In my opinion he is an intelligent, wise and knowledgable person who still has a lot to offer. I am currently researching and reading about cults and mind control from some of the materials recommended on this forum and other materials I have come across. So far it has been an eye is allowing me to detach emotionally from my situation and see the broader perspective of cult involvement. I keep him in my prayers :)
Just thought I'd share my experience from a different angle as I have never been involved with RSE. I applaud you for your courage and your insight. It is through people like yourself who are willing to humbly share and express themselves on this forum that others will be also set free from the traps of RSE.
All the best to you :)

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:17 am
by UKgirl
Hello everyone. I have copied this paragraph from my reply to David's post regarding the teachers at RSE as it gives my update from my main topic.

I am a few weeks down the ex-RSE track now and am feeling really good about it all. No going back that's for sure. I told my RSE friends that I had found this forum and about Glen Cunningham and Jeff Knights videos. Unfortunately they don't want to know about the 'anti Ramtha negativity' saying "that information has been around for a long time" and reminding me of all the beautiful teachings we have heard from Ramtha and JZ. A few of them have been deafeningly (is that a word?) silent, and the others just feel sad for me and consider me 'lost' to them now. I am on the outer, but know that a little time and space from it all will sort out which of them are true friends who are able to still love and accept me for my beliefs that are now different to theirs.

Thank you to all the moderators and members who post. I am OK. I knew this would happen. I have found a wonderful couple who are sharing coffee and listening to me weekly at the moment, who are not RSE students, but who know a lot about the school and JZ and have been watching with interest and been quite wary for many years. They are a great support and I am grateful for their friendship.

Time will tell ... and I wait patiently as the great observer now ... amazing what I can now see!

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:09 pm
by freemysoul
Great job UKGirl. Time, for me anyway, made things better, and I have made more friends in the last 3 years than I have lost from rse. Also, I understand now how shallow and 'unloving' those relationships really were. For me, they were based on a foundation of dishonesty and great falsehoods. While involved at rse, you must become detached, uncaring and cold towards others feelings and lives, which creates a divisive atmosphere. This is all justified by JZ in clever ways, but I know now that treating peoples concerns and feelings with disdain is unloving and VERY unenlightened. I always felt I was holding back while there, and I guarded my words so as not to offend or sway outside of what is acceptable in those rse circles. It feels great to speak my mind without the overwhelming fear of saying something 'unenlightened', being corrected, or having to choose my words like a game of pickup sticks. I am grateful to be where I am and who I am today, and it is great to hear your progress as it is a great advertisement for having a real life and new friends after rse.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:38 pm
by Eddie
Just a quick message to those that decided to quit the school.
The week I quit the school, I became very ill for about 10 days.
I guess that's normal.
I've been healthy (actually more healthy) the past month(s).
Don't Just Do It.
Just Get Out.

Re: How Do I Tell My RSE Friends That JZK / Ramtha is Fake?

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:08 pm
by Tree
When a person chooses to leave RSE,
they leave behind nearly all of their friends,
their ENTIRE social foundation,
their support system,
their tie to the herd.

It is as someone completely pulls the rug out from under your ENTIRE life.

It is very difficult.

But know that there are other social structures and friends and sometimes family waiting.

It is very very difficult. And your body will feel it as well (several have posted their bodies' reactions).

Be kind, patient and gentle to yourself.