General Chit Chat & Social Forum, ? Evidence of Reincarnation Conference Marina page
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=330
have been reposted here.
Thank you journeythroughramthaland
Jul 24, 2008 journeythroughramthaland posted
Could it be that when in a group/religion/traumatic situation etc which occupy one's full dissociative capacity that upon leaving, the void one feels and has to deal with is partly the unused dissociative capacity while engaging their critical thinking abilities? I think that one of the reasons it is often mentioned to survivors of groups such as RSE to see movies, watch (mindless) tv, draw, paint play music etc upon their exiting process is not so much effective because one is doing what they had previously been unable to do in the group, but possibly because it eases ones sense of the unused dissociative capacity and in so doing eases ones sense of a void that might need to be filled again.
if the theories of evolutionary dissociative capacity development have some validity, then it would stand to reason that after leaving a group like RSE which engages in many rituals and teaches one to continue these rituals on their own, that when one leaves the rituals there is a void and a propensity might be to fill that void. One problem might be with filling that void too soon.
It may be that it is more healthy to first shrink ones capacity to disassociate so that there is not so much to fill. As this may be one of the reasons that quite often members of groups similar to RSE simply change channels or clothes so to speak.
What I am saying is that for persons exiting groups in which many of the demands were to maintain dissociative states, one might do well to resist the temptation/need/or possibly addiction to fill the void that is left and allow it time to shrink to its cultural norm.
When I have been speaking of dissociation, I have been speaking of it as being both pathological and as occurs in everyday life; states of creativity (inspirational in particular),various sleep states, sensory deprivation states, states promoted through drug use,various types of meditation, daydreaming and other forms of relaxation states. pathological states would be fugue states, psychotic states especially hallucinatory in nature. I am not saying that hypnosis and disassociation are the same state only that disassociation occurs in a hypnotic state and appears to be a necessary ingredient.
I was just throwing that out there to hear others comments; i.e. if they had artistic endeavors before joining, were they able to maintain or in fact enhance them while a member and did having that outlet help them in their recovery. If so, i was suggesting that perhaps it is a possibility that while in the group their normal dissociative capacity was not able to be fully occupied. Said in another way, if their dissociative gas tank was 20 gallons on going in, 25% already being used in their artistic endeavors the balance for the everyday purposes mentioned above, were they able for some reason to maintain the 25% while in and coming out of RSE and groups like it (which has been my impression for quite a few) and why might they think that is so, if indeed it is?
One of the statistics revealed by the study done at RSE of JZ and a group of "advanced" students Greg Simmons included, was that on average they were 3 times higher on a dissociative states then the general public. If I remember correctly, JZ had the highest level. The people doing the study described it as "the ability to keep secrets from ones self". So if the average person has a 20 gallon tank, then through the various exercises and rituals in RSE it becomes a 60 gallon one, upon leaving one way that might help them recover and not have an "empty' feeling with regard to missing those states would be to find ways in which allow their gas tank to go back to its original size.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
Thu Jul 24, Tree posted
*******It has been my experience that engaging in somewhat "mindless" or relaxing activites upon exiting a group (and not all are mindless, mind you)
it would be analagous to let's say having a very very stressful day at the office and this person just needs to unwind by just watching
anything on TV, or fishing, or whatever it is that relaxes that person until they can get back to the 'center' of who they are, and continue on
with normal life.
Now that I have typed that out, I will reflect on that very very stressful 20 years at the office.
Upon leaving the group, I found an utmost RELIEF in removing myself from the every increasing pressure to prepare for survival.
to can food, to work to buy food, to scrounge for anyone's free food, to build my UG, to be in an argument with someone as to if my
hatch to my secret escape door was submarine/water tight proof, etc etc
It was 20 years at a very stressful office.
So, I needed to unwind.
And in some unwinding, I had some realizations that had to be researched or authenticated or just plain vented about with a therapist.
"Is this real? Is this true?"
Unwind, and educate when one is ready.
If either of the two happen too fast, I think a mental breakdown would ensue (I know this for a fact. I personally know of 3 people
who this happened to).
Jul 24 Lost in Space posted
Journey and Tree:
Journey, you define disassociation as keeping secrets from yourself - trying to get your meaning. It does sound like a pathological condition that may be acquired through performing the disciplines and participating in the school - Self Hypnosis, if you will - where you re-write your personal history, and re-wire your personality/neuronet; essentially, turn yourself into someone or something else, divest yourself of all of your past emotional attachments and habits, and start a new life. And leaving the school must involve a colossal shift in states of consciousness and habits of being, particularly for those who, like you Tree, have invested years of time and effort into participating. And on top of that, leaving any long term job can precipitate a type of identity crisis, and anxiety about the future - What do I do now? - which I can certainly relate to, having left my job in April.
Also, thinking, when a life skills group draws to a close, there is actually a highly specific lesson on closure that customarily takes up the last session - taking formal leave of the group - and although some participants tend to stay in touch with each other, still it is generally acknowledged that people will feel a sense of loss. And that's only after 16 weeks...I can only begin to imagine what leaving RSE is like for people who have been in it for years...like leaving home for a young adult, but without the blessings and continued emotional support from parents and siblings.
I personal feel that such a dramatic life change/personal transformation is enough to give anyone a nervous breakdown, particularly if leaving involves negative relations with people you have been accustomed to associating with while in RSE. And Tree, I think you were wise to seek the support of a trained therapist or counsellor. And, you sound pretty okay, actually, all things considered.
Thu Jul 24 Whatchamacallit posted
Been reading through the posts ~ interesting thoughts. I?ll add a few more of my own to the mix =-)
As for prematurely filling any voids that are experienced after leaving a place like RSE?I see it as a different issue other than dissociation. Or that the void-feeling itself, is related to the events/school. I?ve talked to a number of people who have left RSE and felt that void. It wasn?t the void of missing going to the events, the habit of going to the events, not seeing one?s ?friends? at events, hearing the big guy, etc. It was the PAIN of having to face having been misled by someone/the teacher, the person that you trusted and loved to be guiding your SPIRITUAL LIFE !!! What a betrayal. An intimate part of our lives, our spiritual lives, just meaninglessly USED by a con artist. OUCH. The void of the LOSS, the GRIEF. First the emotional loss leaves the void/pain, not unlike the death of a dearly loved one. Then, later, the anger that goes along with, ?The so-and-so scammed me out of how much money??