quantum ramtha

This is a thread to debate the pseudoscience that RSE promotes, versus the science of our current day.
joe sz
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quantum ramtha

Unread post by joe sz » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:23 pm

postd on: http://jszimhart.com/blog/quantum_ramtha

Time master?

The following are notes I made that address several mistaken notions common to New Age or neo-occult believers in this 2008 article, an interview with Judith “JZ” Knight, a psychic and medium for the trademarked entity called Ramtha.

An Internet magazine: SC—the voice for human potential

http://www.superconsciousness.com/topic ... -jz-knight

“How to Become a Master of Time

Interview with JZ Knight [Jan 2008, Superconsciousness]

Author: Danielle Graham
“JZ Knight lives an outrageous and controversial life. For over 30 years, she has regularly surrendered her body for use as a conduit through which tens of thousands of students around the world are trained by Ramtha the Enlightened One. Though she has been prodded and poked, tested and challenged, her claim, backed by an extensive body of evidence, has never once been discredited by any scientist, scholar, or court of law.”

Neither was Jack the Ripper or Daffy Duck discredited, not even once, while they were “alive”, so the statement is meaningless. More to the point, we can ask what the writer means by “discredited?” JZ was certainly discredited by the state of Oregon with a cease and desist order in the mid-1980s for selling overpriced Arabian horses to vulnerable naïve buyers using her “god” Ramtha as the endorser, thus her “Jack and Daffy” show was legally discredited as to conduct at least once.

“Let’s start with time relative to science: these new questions about the existence of time really began to be raised in the beginning of quantum physics, because at that base level [of fundamental particle science], observation causes the energy [of subatomic particles] to stop. Measurement is equal to time. To be able to measure the momentum of a particle, it had to have time, so, time was generated by momentum, or the collapsing of energy into particles, and we are all familiar with that [concept]. In our struggle to define time, if we define it in terms of momentum, then I am very agreeable with that. Momentum meaning action…”

This mishmash of subjective jargon keys on this one point:

“…observation causes the energy [of subatomic particles] to stop.”

Every teaching of JZ/Ramtha hinges on this being true. Iow, the human mind can access the mind of the Creative Force of the Universe as Itself and thus change the nature of reality by mere observation and intent. The statement by JZ is dead wrong. It is a mere belief and a false one because it shows a limited grasp of what we do know of the quantum effect.

Read the following from

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/n ... cki3.html

The Quantum Brain: Theory or Myth?
Ruth Czarnecki
“The study of neurobiology has long involved the actions and interactions among neurons and their synapses. Changes in concentrations of various ions carry impulses to and from the central nervous system and are responsible for all the information processed by the nervous system as a whole. This has been the prominent theory for many years, but, now, there is a new one to be reckoned with; the Quantum Brain Theory (QBT). Like many new theories, the QBT has merits and flaws. Many people are wholeheartedly sold on it; however, this vigor might be uncalled for. Nevertheless, this could prove to be a valid and surprisingly accurate theory of brain function.

One of the most convincing arguments of the QBT is its explanation of how reality is conceived by the brain. Classically, reality should always be changing, even by the slightest notion, and the brain should be aware of these changes as they occur. According to quantum mechanics, this would be impossible; there is no time during which something is changing. Therefore, the brain cannot be in a state of change, it must be in one state or another, there is no in between. The QBT states that our brain takes in reality one moment at a time, it is never in a state where it is observing something change. It observes reality before the change and then after the change and then fuses these two images together in order to make sense of them.

One question about the QBT comes when reality itself is considered; "why can't reality be a quantum system?" Well, there are a few explanations. One is that quantum systems are usually very small. Quantum mechanics cannot be used to explain the universe as a whole in all venues, however, can explain the movements of an electron, or the actions of a black hole. Another reason why reality cannot be explained by quantum mechanics is that quantum mechanics call for a holistic interpretation of the system. Reality, then, is much too large for all of it to be encompassed in one interpretation. Non-locality, another feature of quantum mechanics, prevents reality from being explained by quantum mechanics. Non-locality means that distance is not an issue in the effects of one part of a system on another. For example, curtains might not be blowing because your window is open and there is a wind, they might be blowing because somewhere in Russia, a woman is beating her rugs. This is impossible. Therefore, reality must be classically interpreted.”

The article above goes on, but the point here is that “classical” reality, the one we human beings live in and move in and have our being in, is not a quantum reality as such. By that token, we do and can not change the quantum world by mere “observation”, intent or thought. The latter is a spin on the observer effect in physics:


This observer effect is real, eg, when we have to let some pressure out of a tire to check the pressure. We change the pressure we are checking as we are checking it, however so slightly. But at the quantum level, most new agers and New Thought devotees misinterpret the observer effect in the so-called “double slit” experiment:

“This thought experiment was proved correct experimentally. The people conducting the experiment found that when the sensor was turned off, an interference pattern developed, but when it was turned on, the interference pattern was destroyed. It was even found that the level of detection could affect the result.

The change of the wave function from ψ to ψn is called the collapse of the wave function and occurs when the measurement takes place.”
The observer’s power of mind has nothing to do with changing the effect—the act and instrument of measurement does.

So here is the JZ/NewAge/New Thought sleight of hand:

Like any stoner on good weed, we can all imagine being in the mind of God where time and space, past and future, you and me, good and evil, pain and joy all resolve into a Oneness that is the Source of all possibilities. Oh yes, I have been There! Or, if we put away our entheogens as all good yogis have done since the ancient days of Soma, we can meditate our minds into a kind of emptiness or satori, thus “yoking” [yoga is the root word for yoke] Atman to Brahman---thou art that. Cool, huh? To the embarrassment of India and its culture, we in the West have been treated to a long stream of pseudo-gurus [Swami Muktananda; Satya Sai Baba, eg] and their cults claiming to transmit "siddha" or paranormal powers from guru to chela.

Ramtha has been spouting this “you are God” mist for over 40 years---but, so what if I AM that I AM? This is no profound insight.

Let us assume that this mystical entry into non-duality is possible and true for the moment. Then what? More insipid devotional milieus and sometimes dangerous cults have formed around this concept than I can count in my 30 years as a researcher in this cult field: Seth Speaks, Lazaris, est, E Tolle, A Course in Miracles and so on. I am God, I am God, I am God were the words of actress Shirley MacLaine in her 1987 movie Out on a Limb. Okay, she was God screaming I am God on a beach one day….what duh f? I called her insight “premature divinitis” at the time, a common disorder among naïve meditators.

Let me break this down into simple, real life terms. Suppose I convinced a young man with no construction skills that he could meditate and become a master Cathedral builder by using a few of my mental and spiritual techniques. Once he felt confident [enlightened] I order him to go build a house all by himself using natural materials and tools. What do you think will occur? Right. We might end up with some kind of rudimentary structure built by non-meditating boy scouts or a few teenage girls lost in the woods overnight. That is unless my student cheats and goes to Home Depot, buys proper tools, a truck, some plans and takes lessons in a class on house making. But not in his lifetime would he ever build a St Peter’s Basilica using only mental yogic techniques.

This sleight of hand in oddball new religions like Scientology or Ramtha tends to revolve around the idiotic idea that by having a stoner’s or yogi’s awareness of God in your brain with attendant "experiences", your brain becomes God and is suddenly or potentially infused with powers of God or Brahman or the Demiurge or an Operating Thetan or Divine Presence or Whatever deity. The suggestion of "potential" is key here: every cult leader in this milieu offers techniques and workshops or retreats and intensives to help the enlightened reach that potential in "human evolution." JZ through her Ramtha School of Enlightenment has put thousands of devotees through sometimes excruciating but almost always ridiculous blindfolded tasks like blowing air [C&E], yelling, attempts at remote viewing, crawling through mazes and tubes, and using prozac and other substances to train the brain to release superhuman "unlimited" powers. The result after 30+ years has been anything but impressive. Thousands have left the cult disgusted, disturbed, disoriented, depressed, disgruntled, and damned angry after waking up from the spell of Ramtha with less than nothing to show for all their effort, time and money spent.

This supercilious interview with JZ Knight is a great example of pseudo-scientific self-delusion. Let the medium speak for herself:
“When we begin to work on our future, we have to realize that it’s not that we are living in multiple universes, yet at the same time, we actually are, because that line of pearls that connects us to the future of potentials, we get to express in an arrow of time that has been chosen by us, and when we bring them in, we become frequency specific to them. All of them are actually our potentials. But, by and large, when we begin the process of unfolding out of no time, a time machine that processes potentials, when we start that, it really is relative to the concepts we’re going after.” (JZ in SC)
“I literally look at people’s heads and I can see a pincushion. I mean I see their head and then I see all these spikes coming off of their head, and those spikes are lights that fade into different colors. They’re enormous [and] there’s a massive amount of them. I know what a person is working on [because] I see it sitting between their eyes, literally in their mid-brain. They are frequency specific with a future potential that is relative to who they are and the reality they’ve created now. That reality has extraordinary possibilities in the future that can be downloaded and realized now. They’re so numerous, it looks just like a porcupine or a pincushion, but you can tell what people are interested in because the one that is feeding the midbrain is the future they are most connected to.” (JZ Knight, SC 2008)

Well, what can we say? If you think that is a remarkably scientific claim, we have some $3 bills for your collection.

If you have any comments or questions, email me: jszimhart@windstream.com

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Re: quantum ramtha

Unread post by Kensho » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:33 am

Welcome to the cog-fog of those over 50 Joe :lol:
I think that the correct email is .net rather than .com

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

joe sz
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA

Re: quantum ramtha

Unread post by joe sz » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:30 am

subconsciously I think I was hoping to avoid emails... ;-)

joe sz
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA

Re: quantum ramtha

Unread post by joe sz » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:55 am

JZ's misuse of 'quantum physics' has been a real laugher among anyone that grasps what particle physics entails.

Here is a good read from Prof Anderson who addresses that fact that you cannot go to a reductionist view of a human being as a "bunch of quarks and electrons" and determine human behavior from that. He wrote about this in 1971.

http://www.amazon.com/More-Different-No ... 9814350133

A running thread through several essays is Anderson's criticism of ultra-reductionism in science which is reflected in the title of the book, "More and Different". Anderson's basic viewpoint is that more is not just quantitatively but qualitatively different from less. In 1972 he made a splash by discussing in an article in Science magazine how "higher-level" sciences are based on their own fundamental laws which cannot be reduced to physics. In the book he details this philosophy through several examples from physics, chemistry, biology and psychology. He does not deny the great value of reductionism in the development of modern science but he incisively explores its limits.
- See more at: http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/ ... 3AL4r.dpuf

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Re: quantum ramtha

Unread post by MindState » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:30 pm

RSE has no science. They ruined the experiment! And quite frankly, I'd rather be clam digging at the beach and end the day having got no clams....than listen to JZ preach over and over "when we do our walk.....we see the word....."I"....stop....focus....see the werd....see the werd in front of you "have".......see the werd....make your piece with god .....flick your hair to one side.....rais your hands.........see the picture...."alllllwayyys"........and we don't stop until we have the glitter......

She can go fly away with 'Sea Biscuit" and the rest of her nut-head shills can run away and get lost! It's only a matter of time! The world is waking up and seeing that the cult leader has no cloths. The disciplines trademarked at that school are worth less than nothing. We already have it all. Can't patent something that has no words at all.

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Re: quantum ramtha

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:43 am

You can pick up almost any book by a credentialed lecturer in quantum physics and read that there is a profound disconnect between quantum physics and classical physics. The problem of is that quantum physics is fairly good at describing the probability of what happens to quanta such as quarks and leptons. There is not sufficient information to tie the behavior of subatomic quanta to what is likely to happen to you big toenail in the next five seconds, let alone the entire universe (or universes depending on which school of philosophy to which one belongs).

Ron Garret of Google gave a very good talk about the problems inherent in the reductionist philosophy of quantum physics. Ron talks about the attempt to resolve the shortcomings of quantum physics by a new branch called quantum information theory. QIT speculates that reality is a hologram condensed from thought, however that really doesn't get you anywhere toward solving the question of beingness at the end of the day. I recommend reading Ron's paper mentioned in his blog post here: http://blog.rongarret.info/2011/01/quan ... iracy.html

I think you can sum it up with Ron's quoting of Joe Provenzano near the end of the paper:

"Enlightening as this new insight may be, it does leave us with the vexing question:
if what we perceive as reality is only an illusion, what is the "substrate" for this
illusion? To quote Joe Provenzano: If reality is an illusion, who (or what) is being
illused? If reality is a magic trick, who is the audience?"

Don't let the use of math in the paper put you off; it is not necessary to do the math to get the point.

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