judgemental thinking

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tree
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judgemental thinking

Unread post by tree »

So, between a mental health visit and the continuing saga of this UG in progress,
I have this stunning realization about 1) being HIGHLY judgemental of fellow RSE'ers (while I was in) and of course,
with the villagers this being a by product of the continual brainwashing 2) how much this judgement can still be in the subconscious
after let's say, 5 or 10 to 15 or 20 years in the school.

Here is a case in point:

The gentleman who is a contractor, who is in charge of this project of this UG made his money to get to the event.
(yes, the post by David comes to mind about the building of UGs just ads to JZ's coffers).
Prior to the event though, both he AND his buddy, have decided the best way to keep the job is to degrade my work.
I was really taken aback by this as the buddy has never even MET me, nor has he seen any of my work.
So, the client comes back out the next day and is swayed in continuing on with these two bozos.
(I am contracted out for a small portion).
She comes to me 3 days ago, literally crying saying she realized how much fear they had instilled in her and that was their tactic
to be kept on the job. Not to mention that she has found now, like monetary error number 5 and 3 BLAZING mis-orders of
materials.

So, I tell this scenario to my very good friend who has never been in school but is very familiar with my process.
She sais to me, after hearing all this:
Let me put it this way. You have two Ramsters , and they could be engaged in a job, or even just having a meal together.
But it is continual battle to undercut the other one, just so each one can feel more "evolved" than the other one.
That is what you are taught: you are God, and you are better than everyone else.
So you will go to EVERY length to prove that, and that includes undercutting the next guy, at whatever cost.

I guess what's good for the leader is good for the student. (NOT!!)
Marie
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Unread post by Marie »

Hi Tree...

Sometimes human behavior is just "human behavior".... I had exactly the same thing happen to me by a painting contractor once... I was doing some painting for a woman I knew -- I did professional faux finishing at that time -- she had contacted me because she did not trust the prices another local contractor was giving her to paint the new walls in her house.... I had no particular interest in undercutting the other contractor, just told her what I would charge for the same job... She liked my price and some of the things I said about the job better so she hired me... She also hired the other contractor to do work I did not want to do..... The whole time I was there, the other contractor continually degraded my work, put doubts in her mind about the quality of my work, and gave her such a hard time about me in general that she ended up firing me and having the other contractor finish the work... I was shocked and very disappointed in this woman... In my mind, "she had succumbed to the pressure of the good ole boy network" in my small rural area.....which she did, really.....But anyway, my point is, that sometimes human behavior is just bad human behavior, no matter if they are rse or not.... I have noticed in other posts on the board that sometimes particular experiences are chalked up to the incident involving current students, when really, I have had the same experiences with non rse or non cult people....I guess it's just the human need to find reasons for things, make heads or tails of certain negative experiences.... A counselor told me once that the "reason" for something is sometimes beside the point... it doesn't matter what the reason is really, for someone else's behavior, the only thing that really matters is how we deal with it... Just wanted to emphasize that the rest of the world is not beyond that type of behavior too!
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Marie-
This is very good to know about other people, as well.
But in the case of my friend observing MY behaviors socially over the past year, she noticed, that me,
the person who is not negative, had turned several outings into picking on lots of people's
patterns in one evening...and not ONE of them positive.
I am not sure how better to explain it, but she did mention, not once, did I even mention
a positive thing about this particular outing of people we were at.

When I asked this question to that very dear former RSE friend of mine, she recalled this:

"oh hell yes! we did that. In fact, I remember standing in line to register for an event.
One person came up to my friend and started chit chatting with her, agreeing with her, saying
how great she was etc. The second that person turned around, the person I was with verbally
stabbed her in the back.
At RSE, it was ALWAYS like that.
Talk nice to their face, then turn around and trash them.
All in the name of being "more evolved" that the next guy."
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

My RSE partner is always on about not being judgemental but its such a contradiction as he is one of the most judgmental people I know, always criticising people for not adhering to particular rules. He has these really strict rules of behavior and if someone strays outside those boundaries he feels he has to tell them (or me)

As an example we had a really great dinner party for my birthday last weekend, fantastic group of people, lots of laughter and wine. My partner didn't slip into any weird RSE style discussions (thank goodness) that freak people out and bore them to tears. He was funny and got on well with everyone. However last night he proceeded to tell me how shocked he was that everyone just sat where they wanted at the table and he was relegated to the opposite end to me, for me that is absolutely normal, the hosts sit at opposite ends of the table to ensure guests are all looked after and guests sit where they like and are most comfortable. For my partner he felt that all the dinner guests had no manners they should have waited for him to sit down first - so judgemental - what about just letting everyone be who they are and having a relaxed convivial atmosphere? Why is there always this layer of judgement over everyone's behavoir? Is this how most Ramsters are?

His answer to the whole issue (as I was really upset he had thought to tarnish the memory of a wonderful evening) was that we should discuss how the evening should proceed prior to it starting - really????? Can't we just go with the flow, why all these unnecessary discussions, analysing things before they happen? I guess what my rambling is about is this just my partner's own personality or something from the school?
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Aussiegirl wrote, "I guess what my rambling is about is this just my partner's own personality or something from the school?"

Perhaps it's a bit of both.
The school does promote an arrogant, righteous, superior attitude in the students. I recall "Ramtha" saying a few times at least, that we ought to be PROUD of our arrogance ! Good grief.
However, it's also possible that your partner tends toward a more structured personality and he likes everything in order, with not much in the way of "surprise" or spontaneity in the way of social planning. Had that been me (for example), I would have made SURE I was sitting next to you, because I'd want to sit next to my partner, especially for a birthday bash and there wouldn't have been another option. That is my personality. Not RSE's influence. It is that aspect of my personality that got me OUT of RSE, and that gave me the courage to stare "Ramtha" down on a number of occasions, refusing to comply with whatever "it" was at the time. I am sort of proud (if you can understand where I"m coming from here), that I even invoked anger in "him" on a few occasions. It showed me how small "he" really is, to say the least. I wouldn't be upset with partner - he just wanted YOU !!! That's a good thing.

Also ... happy belated birthday.

:D :D
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

Thanks Whatcha.

You are probably right it is a bit of both. I find a little arrogance quite sexy, its just that my partner is always spouting about not being judgemental then goes ahead and judges everyone! What I have thought in the past is that you can listen to the teachings all you like but humanity can't be contained and all our emotions come through no matter how we attempt to supress them.

Detachment is a dirty word to me!
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

Whatcha wrote: ""That is my personality. Not RSE's influence. It is that aspect of my personality that got me OUT of RSE, and that gave me the courage to stare "Ramtha" down on a number of occasions, refusing to comply with whatever "it" was at the time. I am sort of proud (if you can understand where I"m coming from here), that I even invoked anger in "him" on a few occasions. It showed me how small "he" really is, to say the least.""

:P OH how I would have LOVED to have seen such an exchange of "stares." Good for you.
She does have that "stare" down to an art. If there ever was a ramtha, I'm surprised it didn't threaten to "take HER down!"
8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Whatchamacallit
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Aussie and G2G

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Aussie, maybe you can mess with Partner a bit, next time to you catch him doing the Judgment Game. Maybe he'll get it. As for the emotions, we ARE emotional, mental, physical, spiritual beings. Nuttin' dirty about that !
Detachment = sociopathy if not something worse. That's my two cents.

For example: the tsunami that Ramtha AND JZ KNIGHT "both" said the people who died deserved it. Well, we can, as humanity, witness that TRAGEDY and feel compassion for strangers whom we didn't even know (or in some cases did know). We don't have to feel detached to be God. Frankly, IMO, saying they deserved to die isn't an example of detachment; it's an examply is cruelty, and cold evilness; the antithesis of LOVE. If God(s) were truly detached, I don't believe life would exist. God is love (assuming one believes in God, that is), and love is NOT detachment. Psychopathology is. Just because "God" allows "bad things to happen to good people", doesn't mean they DESERVED it. It just means that life does happen; sometimes there may be divine intervention; sometimes not.

I don't mean to sound "preachy" here. I'm only trying to make a point of overall hypocrisy in the RSE position/teaching along the line of detachment. There, it equates cold emotionless. One should be BEYOND their emotional body and it is a core premise of the teachings. That one's emotions are nothing but chemical reactions encoded in the brain, causing a flood of emotional reactions in the body, and cannot be trusted. Creepy, when it's equated to being detached. We can observe, feel compassion, take action, help one another....and still have kindness for those who suffer tragedy, not slap them in the face.

G2G,
Yeah, I know what you mean about the stares. Yeah, it would have been fun to watch the two of us do that. I happened in the arena (even in the front row) and also a number of times on the field. I found it "empowering" as it was a huge thing for me to do, facing "him" that way. But I disagreed and I wasn't going to budge. Period. Ask my mother. (giggle) It just appalls me to see those sheep following everything JZR says. BLECH. It's very sad, because they just don't get it, though I understand that they THINK they do. They are FOLLOWERS. They are Ramtha's villagers, and they don't see it. I was just chatting with a mom who said her dad died in the school, elderly, a few years ago. Another one, gone. Not because he ascended; he died a human death.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

"My RSE partner is always on about not being judgemental but its such a contradiction as he is one of the most judgmental people I know,"

Aussiegirl-
I would say this is a valid assessment of nearly every RSE student I know.And some are even worse.
I truly believe this comes from the "I am superior one because I have all this sacred knowledge and I know more
than these pitiful little villagers around me."
I personally know of one guy in RSE who has been with his GF now for maybe 12-13 years. He honestly believes he is more
evolved than his partner. And this same guy had the same attitude with his previous partner.
I see this over and over again.
It might now always come out in words. Actions speak quite loudly as well.

"As for the emotions, we ARE emotional, mental, physical, spiritual beings. "

But in RSE we were CONSTANTLY being hounded that we are NOT our emotions, we were ALWAYS greater than out bodies, ect.
The teachings like these get people's thoughts twisted into thinking they do NOT have emotions, and then when a wave of some kind of emotion hits, guilt is piled on under the teaching of "I was just in my 'emotional body'. I had a few glasses of wine, and that is all passed
right now.' As if sweeping the whole emotional aspect under the rug.
And I have seen this done time and time again whether it be a dinner party, a death, one's house was flooded 6 feet by the Nisqually River, etc. Life experiences have emotional PROCESSES that RSE and the teachings do not acknowledge.
You are being very "god-like" if you show no emotion.
And if you do have emotion of any kind (other than "pure joy in the moment") there is this blind guilt that unknowingly creeps in.
Of course, this cannot be seen while IN RSE, but after one is out.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

Its heartbreaking to watch how my partner beats himself up about his "addictions" I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. In this case addictions are basically emotional reactions - for any of us who have never been in the school these emotions are a normal healthy part of our lives, for my partner he cannot conquer his emotions and he sees that as failure. In some respects I feel as though I am making inroads with him into accepting and loving who he is with all his humanity, he doesn't talk about total detachment as something to aspire to anymore.

I agree with Watcha, detachment = sociopath, in fact I was watching a series on the most dangerous serial killers of all time and those that were considered the worst were the ones who were compeltely detached from their victims, it is what enabled them to commit torture. I often discuss with my partner the dangers of detachment, it is attachment to each other that keeps us in families, communities etc etc, if weren't attached we wouldn't care about other people needs and the world would basically decend into chaos, its a fundamental part of being human.

Can I ask another question, is it also an RSE charactiristic to talk a lot about what you are going to do, be, etc but not actually do it? My partner spends way too much time talking and visualising what he wants and not nearly as much time actually doing anything. He has always criticized me for not visualising my dreams, but I have told him that I just go and do it. "How can you do it if you don't think about it first" is always his reply. Well guess what I do think about it for about a minute before I put it into action, he on the other hand spends years thinking about things but never actually does them. Which one of us is succesful in their career with a good income and really happy with their life and which one is depressed, struggling to earn decent money and drinking too much? I don't think I need to say.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Aussie, what Tree said about the teachings on the emotional body, is all true. It's a shameful event in RSE if someone is "caught" being in their emotional body, because what's really happening is they're being pressured to repress (compartmentalize) themselves, so that they won't allow emotions to arise. When you can get someone to detach (as you are aware), there's a problem !!! Especially how they are detached from death. They don't even call it that. It's more likely to be called, that they have gone to be with the Ram.

True story: I was at an event and Ramtha was on some kick about "marching". That meant whatever he was going to teach/do/request/demand, the students were expected to "march" (shut up and do what they are told). I'm sitting there, thinking "do it yourself", and Ramtha says to us, "Talk to your partner. What did you just hear me say?" So, this chick next to me says that she would do WHATEVER Ramtha said to do, and she'd march. Dang scary stuff. THAT is the level of detachment that is within some of those people.

It takes that level of sociopathic/detachment to brush off the tragic death of the tsunami victims; adults, children, pregnant women, elderly, newborns. Dead. It's tough nuts for them.

Who remembers Ramtha talking about the old Mystery Schools, and how the teachers would just lead an initiate to their death on purpose, because if they didn't have the developed intuition to pass the "tests of the initiate" in those old schools, they deserved to just get it over with and reincarnate to start over. Whoa. JZR, tell us how you really feel !!!

Aussie, if the students would stop and THINK for themselves, they would see something about their attempts to "manifest". They make it into this huge ritual. You have to make your List to do, walk the field for hours, months, days or years, and cross your fingers it's all for naught because...if you are not frequency specific with what you're attempting to focus on/manifest, you'll just never get it anyway !!! Cool. Is that why students pay the CEO the big bucks ? To sort of maybe if they are lucky and do enough disciplines, get a manifestation ? It's not real. So, they go through these rituals, because of what they do NOT have; THEY'RE IN LACK of the thing that they want. As you said, if you want something, just decide you're going to go about getting it, instead of waiting for it to come to you. Like going to the doctor when one is sick, instead of thinking blue body is going to heal you because you're focusing on it.

So, partner will think about things and not DO them, because those things are supposed to COME TO HIM, because he manifested them.

Aussie, you seem to be patient with him. For days, having read your posts, I am thinking to myself, "Why doesn't she get rid of him. They're are 3 billion men on this planet, so find another one." But, then, I realized that your partner sounds to you, the same way I sounded to my husband/family. They put up with my crap for almost 20 years. They're saints, because if the tables had been reversed, I wouldn't have tolerated it.

Okay, I'm going to go put a paper bag over my head now and hide from myself.
I can't believe I was in there for so long.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

I am patient with him because I love him, he has wonderful qualities in him that I probably never post about. Most of the time RSE doesn't encroach on our lives too much. You are right there are billions of men out there, and I am quite happy on my own also but out of the many many men I have met, my partner is still the most interesting, he is never boring and underneath all that RSE rubbish is an intelligent man. I would like to think that he will leave the school eventually but am prepared that he won't. If he became more involved it would definitely test our relationship, I am tolerant now but I think if he was attending retreats and doing disciplines I would probably not stick it out.

Aren't you glad Watcha that your family stayed loving you and with you through your time at the school? Thats the great thing about emotions they can get us through anything, love for our partner, children, friends gives us strength to cope with almost any situation.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

"is it also an RSE charactiristic to talk a lot about what you are going to do, be, etc but not actually do it?"

yes!!!

fortunately, for me, I am a do=er by nature.
While in RSE, I had single mother friends who would just sit and make cards for hours just drinking coffee or wine.
They insisted that that was the way to "manifest".
Many of them resented me because I actually went out and made things happen for myself.
Built my own house, cabin for my son, built my own UG, etc etc : I did "what the Ram told me to do."
I know of one in particular who is STILL living on government assistance as an illegal alien and her son is in college!
She is STILL in the same gov't sponsored housing really thinking Omega is going to hit next week.
This has been over 20 years now!!
If they truly believed C + E = R (the basic tenent of the school-consciousness plus energy creates the nature of reality)
they might think about getting off their a$$ and DOING something.

I rarely have seen, in all my years at RSE, people actually "doing" something about "manifesting".
And mostly, it is the people who have alot of money.


and speaking of "manifesting" I should actually start another thread with that title.
Boy! There are stories out there about "manifesting", but in the real world, would be called: let me see how much I can rip you off! :shock:
tree
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Unread post by tree »

and speaking about relationships,
JZR on a number of occasions has repeatedly said throughout the teachings how difficult it would be to be a member of RSE
and to have a relationship with someone in "social consciousness." She said that for the most part, not to attempt it.
"They will not understand what you know."

During my entire time there, I kept every relationship within RSE or introduced them to the school.
I utterly believed, from an RSE point of view, those teachings regarding relationships.

Now, on the outside, it is really obvious what a struggle it would be.
Maybe oldone might be able to shed some more light on this.
tree
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"addictions"

Unread post by tree »

"Its heartbreaking to watch how my partner beats himself up about his "addictions" "

Let me give you an example of how insidious this statement is.

I have been out of RSE now for a little over a year.
Just two weeks ago. I was talking to the therapist about a change in my environment.
I was concerned about my supposed 'addiction" to chaos happening and would this follow me? (for example when I would go to town and run into a Ramster,
and their reactions or words at the post office or grocery store would be less than pleasant creating an emotional reaction for myself.
I was RSE defining this as "chaos" as "chaos is good" at RSE-it means one is "changing" or evolving.)
When I relayed this story, the look on her face (because I know she is a highly educated professional) told me I was WAYYYY off base.
Then she just replied : pfft.
"It's not true, Tree.There is no such thing as being addicted to this 'chaos'."

oh. :roll:

And this has been over a year being OUT. I hope this post makes sense.
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

JZR on a number of occasions has repeatedly said throughout the teachings how difficult it would be to be a member of RSE and to have a relationship with someone in "social consciousness." She said that for the most part, not to attempt it. "They will not understand what you know."

Tree -

I was married to an "outsider" for the 12+ years I attended RSE, and it was a huge challenge and I paid a big price.

In 1989 I convinced my husband to attend a beginners' weekend in Yelm, hoping he would embrace the teachings. We were seated towards the back of the arena, and he got up to use the restroom. At this point, Ramtha was walking through the aisles and speaking. My husband decided to "check out" Ramtha up close and personal, so instead of returning to his seat after the bathroom, he followed Ramtha around the arena and tried making direct eye contact and tried staring him down. I was mortified!!! I was so embarrassed by my husband's disrespect to Ramtha I just wanted to disappear. After several minutes of this (it felt like an eternity), Ram announced that anyone wishing to leave could do so and would be refunded their gold. A break was then called. My husband chose to leave and got his refund, but I stayed for the weekend. During the remainder of the weekend, my husband stayed in Yelm and talked to locals and ex-students about the school. He was told by all that we were a cult, etc. When we got home, the trouble really began.

To this day my husband believes that JZ was pretending to be Ramtha. He always referred to Ram as "she," and I was constantly defending Ramtha. Man, did we ever argue over that! He gave me a choice to either stay with him or stay with Ramtha. I chose Ramtha over my marriage (but we stayed married anyway).

I fought like a tenacious dog to keep my marriage working and attend school at the same time. That marked the beginning of many years of battles at home. I was constantly being monitored for signs of brainwashing, and my family got in on the act, as well.

Gradually, my family saw that the school didn't appear to be a threat to my sanity since I appeared to be really together, happy and successful in work. Over the years I attended many, many extra events including Boktaus and made wonderful new friends from around the world.

After I left the school, the toll it took on my personal life has become evident. I have a huge void in my life, and my emotional structure is very weak. I've had a nervous breakdown, become a bonafide alcoholic (recovering now thru AA). RSE used to be the context from which I structured my life, as the teachings were impressed throughout my being on a very deep level. Now, I guess you could say, I'm floundering around and recovering from RSE.

Seven years later, I still can't/won't admit to my family that I was wrong (and they were right) about the school. I'm just keep quiet about it (not healthy, I know), and am concerned about what my "molecules of emotion" are doing and have done to my health.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

California Dreamin - why did you end up leaving the school? As the partner of a member of RSE I am always interested as to what motivates someone to leave?
Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space »

California Dreaming:

Always think it seems a shame that, upon leaving the school, one has to count the whole experience as a waste of time...or, tell your family you "make a big goof"...it was a part of your life, and surely is still part of who you are, and we are all here to learn. I have had similar experiences, just not at that school, and over time, just think of them as part of my education..and, glad to hear that you were "evolved" enough to get yourself into AA.
I just left a job that was all absorbing, a little world all its own; it became the centre of my life. Once I left, I started to note all the things I overlooked while working there - like the patisserie just a few blocks away. I asked the man behind the counter - how long have you been here?? is this new? He said they had been open for three years!! It's like returning from theTwilight Zone, I'm telling you!! :roll:
And, Aussie Girl, do you hold any hopes of your guy leaving the school? Or are you pretty much resigned to the idea of him staying in?
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

aussie,

Yes, I'm glad that my family stayed the course while I was in RSE ! One thing I can say, is that they understand that while they didn't agree with my choices, they did believe that I was doing what I believed was going to be beneficial. I got something "good" out of it, though it didn't outweigh the eventual "bad" (deterioration of the teachings). At that time, one day, my husband said to me (not in anger or anything like that, "I think this is enough, and it's time to leave." He'd never told me to leave.

My own opinion was in disagreement to the path the school was taking, therefore in disagreement with JZR. Yes, it was time to leave.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

It's a good question - do I hold out any hopes of my partner leaving the school? I'm not sure, what I do know is that it won't be the instant revalation I thought it might be when I first realised what his beliefs were based on, I was so incredulous that he could actually be part of a cult that I was expecting him to see the light after one conversation with me pointing out how foolish it was. Well that was almost 3 years ago now and I am a little wiser and tread more lightly now.

What I am not sure about is the depth of his belief in the school anymore. Do I think he is changing his mind because he is or because we don't discuss Ramtha and JZ? I feel it is better not to directly discuss the school as it only leads to the most destructive arguments, I just try to find opportunities to plant seeds that I hope will one day grow into the realisation that the teachings aren't what they seem.

But as far as holding out hope, probably not. I have accepted he believes in the teachings, I don't like them and don't agree with them but I have accepted it. If they were to encroach on our life together then that might test the relationship to a point it cannot bear. Only time will tell and at the moment things are calm on the RSE front in our house.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

After I left the school, the toll it took on my personal life has become evident. I have a huge void in my life, and my emotional structure is very weak. I've had a nervous breakdown, become a bonafide alcoholic (recovering now thru AA). RSE used to be the context from which I structured my life, as the teachings were impressed throughout my being on a very deep level. Now, I guess you could say, I'm floundering around and recovering from RSE.
Dreamin'-
I can totally, utterly relate to this. The aftermath of leaving RSE has touched every aspect of my life.
Just as no one gives you a manual about "how to raise a child" when one's child is born, there is not really a manual of "how to leave a cult and how to navigate your life afterwards."
I have found several of the Google videos (Madeline Tobias, Derren Brown, Tori the ex-Scientologist) and this forum have been the most
beneficial. I think it is also important to find one or two people who have seen or understand your entire journey. It could be a therapist ( I have found it better that they understand the workings of a cult, not just PTSD or anxiety disorder or borderline issues) or one trusted friend.
"Take Back Your Life" was also a great resource.
It's not an easy ride.

On the other hand, I also hear from people: "Heck, if it doesn't work for you, just walk away and do something else."
This, I find highly insensitive.
I have no clue why my reaction has been similar to yours and why others are fairly blaise' about the whole thing and appear unaffected.
Like you. the teachings were impressed upon me on a very deep level. I also felt like I was a truly dedicated sincere student, and I think
my level of devotion added to the depth of the ramifications for myself.

Thank you for posting. In reading other people's journeys helps others in a way one might never know. a truly touching post.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

and am concerned about what my "molecules of emotion" are doing and have done to my health.
I don't know where to put this or go with this thought. Pretty scary for me.
I can't even look at Joe Dispenza's brain book without getting an anxiety attack.
It gives me an image of those animations in What the Bleep-but I am not sure what is true or not.

A side thought I have might be to contact Candace Pert.
Since she is an expert in this field, I would like to find out in hindsight what she thought of her experience of speaking at RSE
and participating in a wine ceremony.
hmmmm......
tree
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Unread post by tree »

ok...here is some info:

http://www.candacepert.com/

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/15 ... 5MCBW9BYQT

"This review is from: Your Body Is Your Subconscious Mind (Audio Cassette)
In this work, Candace Pert, Ph.D., once a fiery research neurochemist at the National Institutes of Health, continues her descent into the "New Age" pop metaphysics of Deepak Chopra. Too bad.
As the previous reviewer noted, Chopra fans will love this book. Bleah."
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

Aussie & Tree

Thanks for your replies. Aussie Girl, I hope what I've written helps you understand, and Tree, it's good to feel heard and understood. Thank you both.

I left because I was burned out and mentally overloaded with the teachings. I had taken voluminous notes over the years and was no longer interested in reading, processing and/or utilizing the information. There were so many disciplines that I "should" have been practicing regularly and I had reached the point where I began to resist the teachings. I constantly felt a nagging guilt in the back of my mind that I wasn't doing enough as a student -- no matter how much I participated or practiced, it was never as much as I was taught I should be doing. I felt myself to be an inadequate student. Each time I missed an optional event and wasn't taught the new discipline that came out of that event, I felt somewhat diminished.

Prior to RSE, for many years I was on my own spiritual path, and in my own journey I found the presence and love of my God. This God (my God) was loving, patient and forgiving and provided me with the lessons I needed to learn at every juncture in my life. That God (my God) provided love, tenderness and inspiration.

The god presented to me through RSE played hardball - and the only times I felt my heart warmed by that god was when I was at an event or practicing "the teachings." The voice of that god I would hear would be Ramtha's voice shouting "YOU CAN DO ANYTHING." RSE's message is more along the lines of "MY will be done," not "THY will (God's will) be done," and for me, God's will has always proven to be the correct path for me.

In contrast, the God I have known all of my life is the God through whom healings and blessings take place. I know God resides in me, but I also know that I am NOT God, but one of the many expressions of God.

Sorry for the digression. Back to RSE -- All of my friends in the school were always in absolute "awe" of all of the teachings, while I was beginning to feel like they were merely the same old information being presented with different spins.

One aspect that disturbed me from day-one was all of the hysterics surrounding "the days to come" and all of the earth changes and worldwide and inter-galactic conspiracies. All of the latest rumors and fear surrounding the impending earth disasters were tainting my everyday happiness. Most of the students I befriended were all in agreement about the necessity for UGs and two-years' food supply and were bordering on paranoia. Everyone talked about how Yelm would be safe in the event of a cataclysm, but that California (where I live) would either drop off the face of the earth or be totally devastated.

In addition, the money schemes, which never paid off, hit me big time. I foolishly invested over $35,000 in Omega, Harrington-Templar, Destiny and David Hudson's immortality powder (what was I thinking????). I was in the audiences when Ramtha strongly suggested that we put money into Omega, and when Dave Runnels (Reynolds) was invited on stage and applauded for being such a genius with money (Harrington-Templar). By the way, I understand that Clyde Hood of Omega died in prison. I read it several years ago in the newspaper.

My last experience of the school was baking in my tent in 90+ degree weather (inside tent was 100+ degrees) for several hours waiting for and hoping Ramtha would appear one last time before the session was adjourned. As it turned out, after several hours of suffering in my tent, the event was called and we were sent home. As I sat in my tent and tried to focus on not getting ill or heat stroke, I told myself "never again," and that was my last experience at the school.

I still believed in Ramtha for many years after I left, but my own healthy doubt was satisfied when I found and read these message boards and the truth of what I read rang out loud and clear. I still want to believe Ramtha was real in the early years, but I don't know anymore . . . .
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

Lost -

My apologies for not including you in my last message - I didn't notice your reply to my posting.

Fortunately, I don't consider my entire RSE experience a waste of time. I got out when I promised myself I would, and that was when I cared more about seeing my friends at events than about the teachings. I learned a ton of stuff at RSE that I never learned in school - I was exposed to physics and biology in a way that I could grasp, and I was also exposed to fabulous books and people. I really enjoyed the thrill of the field (except for the overnight sessions), the challenge of the tank, and the time spent in the forest. Those were great experiences for me. I loved twilight, remote view and (believe it or not) the early wine ceremonies. Also, to this day I swear I had the BEST TIME OF MY LIFE at the October Boktau, when we did Christmas in October. What an absolute blast!

I was able to integrate the educational knowledge into my brain, and I feel more educated as a result. But, when I look back on the direction of the overall teachings and the emotional detachment and hard-ass attitudes that were encouraged, I realize that it wasn't God speaking thru Ramtha. Reviewing my notes and videos it is apparent that JZR had his/her own agenda, and it didn't mesh with God's agenda. Also, I have enough event tapes stowed under my bed to fill a coffin - many never even listened to. I purchased every single tape that I was "eligible" to purchase. My fault.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

California - thanks for posting, it's always interesting to read different people's experiences of the school and what prompted them to leave. Some are very traumatic, others less so and the more information I have the more I feel I can be there for my partner if the time ever comes that he "wakes up" I am concerned about the void that would left in his life if he did leave as he loves all the reading and learning and quest for enlightenment.

On another point and others can attest to this better than me, every new story helps those leaving or thinking of leaving, as all experiences are different some things ring true more than others and can really help people.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

At that time, one day, my husband said to me (not in anger or anything like that, "I think this is enough, and it's time to leave."
if you ask me, this was the equivalent of aussie girl saying: "I think it is time you leave RSE , or this will destroy our relationship."

you did have red flags, but it took the STRONGER and not brainwashed of the two to set the limits.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

the only times I felt my heart warmed by that god was when I was at an event or practicing "the teachings."
Please read the book: Take Back Your Life.
This point is illustrated there.
This is the hook.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Also, to this day I swear I had the BEST TIME OF MY LIFE at the October Boktau, when we did Christmas in October. What an absolute blast!
I think of this every September.

Well, uh, that can be very much disputed now as to the start of Christmas.
But I had 10 people over for eggs, bacon, sausage and biscuits on Sept 1 of that year, and I had just moved into my newly finished
"Big House."
You have GOT to be kidding me! :shock:
I moved one day, and was TOTALLY enthralled by Christmas on Sept 1??!!
of course this was what JZ was doing at the time....adorning her house in Christmas garb Sept 1.

We should all do what she does, right? :roll:
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Tree said, "It gives me an image of those animations in What the Bleep-but I am not sure what is true or not."

What is true or not ?
Even the SCIENTISTS disagree about that, so how can you know ? Or any of the rest of us ?

My two cents is this: right now, the leading edge in much of science is nanotechnology. There are scientists worldover, but especially right here in our own country, who are coming out with developments at lightening fast speed. These developments, products, inventions, are all helping many areas of our lives. MAJOR breakthroughs.

These scientists have not made their cards, walked the field, done tank duty, built UG's to save them, etc., etc.

They are, as I believe it was aussie that said, just going out and making it happen. The kids are going to college, learning their arts and sciences, and applying them to their field of endeavor.

It's not pseudoscience, it's genuine science and it's taking our world by a wonderful storm. REAL healings, of people, the environment, etc. Awesome reading; nanotechnology and it's practical application in our daily lives on this planet.

:D
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Tree said, "
if you ask me, this was the equivalent of aussie girl saying: "I think it is time you leave RSE , or this will destroy our relationship."

you did have red flags, but it took the STRONGER and not brainwashed of the two to set the limits."

Yes, true. I did have red flags. But, I was blinded by my love for the core teachings and my teacher. I would shut out much of the rest; the local dramas I would hear about when I few out to Yelm/events, the meanness of some of the staff, and I even dismissed ..some...of JZR's outbursts (wine ceremonies), though it really bothered me that a God CHOSE to speak to ANYone in that derogatory manner. That kid were there put me over the edge. JZR, imo, should have chosen a more lofty manifestation for "teaching".

At one time, I think if my husband had said it's time for me to leave, I would have told him to go somewhere hot as heck. I might have even left. I'll never know for sure. But, he's a smart guy, and he sure knows me inside and out, so I think he also knew that the "time was right", so to speak, so he ran with that.

In other words, it was all in the timing. I think for a lot of people, that's probably true to a large degree. We just have to be ready to hear it. How many current students are not yet out of RSE and will later find this site ? It's going to happen. But, if someone had told them earlier...it wouldn't have worked.

I think JTR said a while back (months), that it's important to do one's best not to alienate a current student from the family. It's true, but it's probably hard, too.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

I thought about how to say this, since I read more of this thread last night. I will preface what I go on to say, with "to each their own", because I'm going to disagree with some things, though it's not intended to be misconstrued as telling anyone what they have to believe - hardly. So, perhaps, at least to some, this post might be a bit of a "downer". With that preface, I want to share the following with the intent to catalyze some introspection - or not.

In educating myself about exiting a cult, one thing that I learned about, is a phenomenon that got dubbed, "the buzz". The buzz is the "feel good rush/high" that happens at events (in any cult), when the emotions are running high, good food and friends, the perception of getting new and unique information, that sort of thing. In thinking about that, for months, I concluded some things.

Going to an event, setting up one's space, connecting/reconnecting with friends at the event, sharing meal breaks with friends, over hot, home-cooked food, having "Ramtha" come out amidst a background of loud music, built up anticipation, getting what one believes to be new science information that is relative to one's evolution (the reason we went in the first place), all are factors to contributing to "the buzz". JZR used to talk about "the buzz" in other terms, and address how students would be high for up to two weeks after an event, and then need their tune-up fix. What a slick way to encourage dependency on attending events, and encouraging an external locus of control in a person. Until a person steps back and rethinks this with a more critical viewpoint, it works.

As I've heard it said, "Screw the buzz." With this, I have to agree. Just as we can become programmed for anticipating many things in life, we might want to be careful about, and take a good look at, our emotional reactions to where we get/feel "the buzz".

I have previously commented in many posts, that I had some "fun times" at RSE. I won't dispute that. However, they were MY good times, my experiences. It gave me my "buzz". But, I wasn't paying and traveling to get a buzz. I was there because I wanted a very highly evolved level of truth, bringing me to my God-realized-being state, in 7 years, as I was told we would have. I was given PSEUDOscience, not real science. The pseudoscience "felt good" because to me, (and others) it felt "special" and we were "the radical few who were chosen by our God" to evolve in THIS lifetime. Wow, pretty impressive. So, while students walked a gazillion miles of field work hours over the years - today - they are STILL walking. The REAL scientists are out there in the world, especially via nanotechnology and related advanced sciences, DOING. They don't walk fields, or make cards, they produce RESULTS in our precious world.

For me, RSE wasn't the best time of my life, though I had some fun times. I do agree that if there is an entity/energy coming through JZ, is is not highly evolved, and in fact, appears to be quite humanlike in qualities just as in a high school clique of immature children. The best time of my life, beyond the 20 wasted years I spent in RSE, gaining "knowledge" that I later had to discard because it's riddled with lies, has been being with my family, my community, and learning more about my world as it exists NOW.

My two cents.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

when Dave Runnels (Reynolds) was invited on stage and applauded for being such a genius with money (Harrington-Templar)
I will NEVER forget THAT one.
I was sitting near the back of the room during a wine ceremony when JZR brought Dave up on stage.
I did not realize it to be a red flag at the time.
What I DID know was here was this total a$$ of a guy, getting praised on stage for "creating something out of nothing."

I just could NOT believe what I was seeing, as I know how this guy treats his wife and children.
not to mention the fact that he stole the entire lot of money and left for Asia (without the wife and kids).
I personally know of another couple who got railroaded into his scheme. They , too, had to leave town, cutting all ties with all people
here, because of this person who was lauded by JZR. What a farce!
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