JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Yelm

The RSE teachings The Days To Come "TDTC" would have us believe that the world is going down the tubes with all sorts of doom & gloom.
That the Yelm area is protected.
Ockham
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JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Yelm

Unread post by Ockham » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:42 am

I know this is going to sound like a zillion other JZ/R TDTC stories, but the hubris of it really got my goat. I heard RSE was doing another emegency teaching or something for several Pacific and South American nations last weekend (April 17, 2011).

I heard second hand from ramsters that watched it on the Internet, so take this with a grain of salt. JZ/R had a Japanese woman go on the stage, and told everybody how they needed to show compassion for these people who bravely ditched everything including family to join the ramsters in Yelm.

Ugh! Yes indeed, the poor people need some compassion for they were duped to tell thier families to go to hell, while they cowardly slink off to Yelm to leave the families to have what they suppose is a miserable fate: UFOs zoom out of Fuji and blast Japan under the sea. I have compassion that those poor people could get so mixed up and hysterical as to believe that truck load of baloney to the extent they would throw away their weath and their families. I hope their families love them enough to welcome them back after June 15th when the world and human race go about their business as usual.

I wouldn't blame the respective families for feeling reluctance to meet with open arms,their prodigal sons and daughters returning from Yelm. It must feel pretty crummy to be tossed aside in deference to the rantings of JZ/R.

I see it in the deferential way my ramster friends treat me when I don't go gaga over the latest outrageous pronouncement of JZ/R. (The ones RSE's gag order doesn't prevent them from mentioning, that is.)

I think the June 15th date may be just the line in the sand that some ramsters need to snap out of it. Even with the potential timeline change excuse, JZ/R has been making a big deal about June 15. Bad idea for JZ when nothing special happens on that date. I'm not privy on all the RSE talk, but I've noticed that ramsters in the last few weeks are starting to talk about stocking up to last until 2014 now instead of 2013. Maybe teachings are evolving yet again (like always) to keep students hooked longer.

Another Dimension60
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:13 pm

just read an online article on Mother Jones News -"The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science" - following are the first few paragraphs -- if "RSE" substituted "Seekers" we can predict what will happen on June 16th or Dec 24th ,,,,,,

Mon Apr. 18, 2011 3:00 AM PDT

"A MAN WITH A CONVICTION is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point." So wrote the celebrated Stanford University psychologist Leon Festinger (PDF), in a passage that might have been referring to climate change denial—the persistent rejection, on the part of so many Americans today, of what we know about global warming and its human causes. But it was too early for that—this was the 1950s—and Festinger was actually describing a famous case study in psychology.

Festinger and several of his colleagues had infiltrated the Seekers, a small Chicago-area cult whose members thought they were communicating with aliens—including one, "Sananda," who they believed was the astral incarnation of Jesus Christ. The group was led by Dorothy Martin, a Dianetics devotee who transcribed the interstellar messages through automatic writing.

Through her, the aliens had given the precise date of an Earth-rending cataclysm: December 21, 1954. Some of Martin's followers quit their jobs and sold their property, expecting to be rescued by a flying saucer when the continent split asunder and a new sea swallowed much of the United States. The disciples even went so far as to remove brassieres and rip zippers out of their trousers—the metal, they believed, would pose a danger on the spacecraft.

Festinger and his team were with the cult when the prophecy failed. First, the "boys upstairs" (as the aliens were sometimes called) did not show up and rescue the Seekers. Then December 21 arrived without incident. It was the moment Festinger had been waiting for: How would people so emotionally invested in a belief system react, now that it had been soundly refuted?

At first, the group struggled for an explanation. But then rationalization set in. A new message arrived, announcing that they'd all been spared at the last minute. Festinger summarized the extraterrestrials' new pronouncement: "The little group, sitting all night long, had spread so much light that God had saved the world from destruction." Their willingness to believe in the prophecy had saved Earth from the prophecy!

From that day forward, the Seekers, previously shy of the press and indifferent toward evangelizing, began to proselytize. "Their sense of urgency was enormous," wrote Festinger. The devastation of all they had believed had made them even more certain of their beliefs.

In the annals of denial, it doesn't get much more extreme than the Seekers. They lost their jobs, the press mocked them, and there were efforts to keep them away from impressionable young minds. But while Martin's space cult might lie at on the far end of the spectrum of human self-delusion, there's plenty to go around.

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Thank you for this, AD60. It is so indicative of the psychology which reigns within cults, and which contributes to the hopelessness which so many of us feel when we try to encourage 'cult' members to wake up to reality. The concern being that it is such a pointless exercise. So nice, bearing this in mind, to see so many new members joining EMF who are now just waking up from the deeply delusional dream of RSE.

W.E.

joe sz
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by joe sz » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:54 pm

I reviewed this book which is a send up of Festinger's study When Prophecy Fails
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_bookre ... riends.htm

Cultic Studies Review, Vol. 5, No. 1, 2006


Imaginary Friends

Alison Lurie

Abacus, 1967 original. Owl Publishing Company; New York, NY: Henry Holt and Company, 115 West 18th St, 10011; 1998. Reprint edition. ISBN: 0805051805. (Originally published in 1967 by Putnam Publishing Group. ISBN: 9997407768; Abacus, Owl Publishing Company, 245 pages [Abacus edition]. Paperback edition by Avon Books, 1991. ISBN: 0380711362, 288 pages; ISBN: 0380700735.)

Reviewed by Joseph P. Szimhart



Alison Lurie, an accomplished novelist, won a Pulitzer Prize for fiction in 1985 for Foreign Affairs. In Imaginary Friends, Alison Lurie appears to borrow heavily from a study and now-classic report by Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter. The report appeared in When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group That Predicted the Destruction of the World (1956). The Festinger study disguises the actual cult name, location, and members. In the study, Festinger’s assistants infiltrate a small “flying saucer” cult, the “Seekers,” in “Lakeland” in the 1950s. Lurie was not a member of the cult or an observer during the study.

My guess for the actual cult, if anyone cares, was a small group in the Chicago area led by the medium Dorothy Martin (Marian Keech in the Festinger study), who channeled information from “Sananda” and the Guardians. The “space brothers” used the Seekers in the Festinger study to warn earthlings about a coming catastrophic flood. In real life, Martin fled the Chicago area after her prophecies went public, failed, and made headlines that caused ridicule and harassment of the group. Reportedly, Martin feared commitment to a mental asylum and litigation. She continued her spiritualist quest as Sister Thedra, with an obscure cult following in Arizona. She died peacefully in 1992.

I enjoyed Imaginary Friends. Lurie’s keen eye for detail, plot twists, and subtle, laugh-out-loud humor brings the Festinger study to another level. Lurie includes and goes beyond the participant-observer point of view of the sociologist. She deftly choreographs how cults can affect and change those who study them, just as sociologists can change the cults they study. In many ways, Lurie explores critiques of Festinger’s theory and methodology while she sustains the reasoning behind them.

Imaginary Friends is the story of two male professors, one seasoned and the other just out of graduate school. Doctor Tom McMann as the lead sociologist is a large, fit, middle-aged, never-married fellow. He has established a powerful reputation among his colleagues after just one important publication. McMann convinces his new, young colleague Roger Zimmern, a nonpracticing Jew, to help him find a charismatic group so that the two can test a sociological theory. It has been decades since McMann has published anything of significance. He is anxious that no other colleague knows about the project until he gathers his data. Zimmern finds a small, newly formed cult in the nearby town of Sophis—Lurie mimics Festinger’s Seekers with her cult the Truth Seekers. The two men successfully infiltrate the group that exhibits little suspicion of their motives, save for one member, Ken. McMann wants to observe how unexpected change and unfulfilled prophecies affect group dynamics. He predicts that, after cognitive dissonance from a “disconfirmation,” the group will adjust through rationalizations and by increased recruiting. The sociologists expect to participate for months, if necessary.

Roger narrates the story from the perspective of reflection months after things have fallen apart. The comic events originally occurred when Roger got in over his head in more ways than one during the project. The story is his effort to make sense of all the apparent nonsense that happened then.

The core of the cult depends on Verena, a college dropout at age 19, who moves in with her Aunt Elsie, an avid Spiritualist. Elsie encourages Verena’s mediumistic sensibilities. Through automatic writing, Verena makes contact with an alien race of Guardians from the planet Varna. The Varnian leader Ro channels information to the group through Verena’s cryptic scrawls written after she enters a trance state. The group also hears from Mo and Ko of Varna in this way.

Roger describes Verena as both a nut and a sensitive, alluring waif with sculpted features and hypnotic, liquid eyes. McMann poses as the professor that he is, but in personality more like an affable, accommodating car salesman. Throughout the text, Roger refers to himself as both Roger Zimmern, the objective scholar, and as “Stupid Roger,” the klutzy, shy professor truly interested in contact with Varna. His split persona adds to the tension he feels and the confusion he exhibits, all of which cause uncomfortable, if comic, moments. He eventually wonders who is crazy: Is it he, McMann, or the group?

During weeks of meetings with six or seven others in Elsie’s house, Roger endures progressive changes in diet and belief structures. He tries ineffectively to memorize layers of lessons derived from Ro, Spiritualist doctrine, and idiosyncratic truths that members add to group metaphysics. McMann and Zimmern try their best to be nondirective and participatory, but some circumstances push their acting abilities. For example, during a private conference, Verena attempts to “clear” Roger of icy blocks in his mind by holding his hands while she stands almost against his body and gives an invocation to Ro. “Stupid Roger” believes that she is trying to seduce him, and he wants to let her. “Roger Zimmern” knows that if he dares to have sex with the leader, he could screw up, literally, the entire project, and McMann might kill him. Later in the novel, McMann tells Zimmern that he [Zimmern] missed a grand opportunity for some good sex.

The novel includes truly ridiculous scenes that anyone (like me) who was in a New Age cult might identify with. Ro tells the group through Verena that he and other Varnians will appear to them on Earth from their spacecraft if only devotees prepare the way through purification. Ro gives instructions and announces the hour. The group members remove all organic items from their persons, including cotton underwear, woolen jackets, and leather shoes. They scamper through the house looking for wearable items made of “scientific” materials such as nylon, polyester, and plastics.

The description of women in mismatched apparel gleaned from Elsie’s closet and men in odd items such as rubber galoshes taken from her husband’s closet creates quite a madcap scene for the reader’s imagination. One man in the group had to wear a synthetic quilt wrap throughout the ritual session. After the group removes the offensive organic clothing, Verena directs them to put it all, piece by piece, in the fireplace and watch the stuff burn. Zimmern has a real problem with letting go of his only expensive jacket for something that only Stupid Roger has to believe in. Later in their motel, McMann laughs at him, reassuring him that replacing the jacket is an expense covered by the budget.

The oddly attired group marches outside into the snow in Elsie’s backyard to await “The Coming.” They sing hymns of praise, offer invocations to the Light, and wait and wonder for a long time. Ro and the Varnians fail to appear long after the expected time. An exhausted Verena, who had been fasting and not sleeping for days, finally announces that Ro did indeed appear in a spiritual way. Ro’s spirit is in “man” she says, and then she faints. After the motley entourage carries Verena back into the house, Elsie interprets “man” as Tom McMann. When the lead sociologist reacts on cue to accept his role as Ro, Zimmern gets very nervous and wonders what is going on. Things get out of control when Ken, an ex-member of the cult, arrives and demands to see Verena. Ken is in love with her, and she has feelings for him, too. McMann sees Ken as a threat to the newest developments in the group, thus potentially messing up his project. McMann gets a rifle, fires a shot into the ceiling, and threatens to shoot Ken if he does not leave. Ken later brings the police.

I will not give away the rest of the plot, but I will say that Lurie bends the story from this point on beyond anything that happened in the Festinger study. She entertains us with a wonderfully funny foray into the slippery edges between devotion and mental illness. I can understand why some professors of sociology still recommend this book to their students as required reading. I would.

Ockham
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:31 am

Wow AD60 and Joe,

Thank you. That is much food for thought. That made me think of all sort of things. So much to write about that it is difficult to decide where to start. Just saying, "thank you," for now.

Vanilla
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Vanilla » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:15 am

The gist of the last stream, was to help each other. Its not fair for some people who have too much stuff and others nothing. Help each other GUYS.. That was the whole Gist. People pay money to see a channeled entity say that.

That to me, was completely the opposite of a month ago Ram telling everyone to close their underground home doors to the "grasshoppers" who will be knocking, not to let them in, and its not fair for some people to have saved and prepared and help others. When they have not done anything to preserve themselves.

Ockham
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:42 am

Hi Vanilla, and everybody,

Vanilla, I was thinking of your experience that you've been kind enough to relate as I was reading the postings above from AD60 and Joe. That got me to pondering many things about control, addiction, and nature versus nurture. Vanilla, in your case you studied the teaching, then made a consisdered analysis that the teachings weren't adding up. That is not to say that was an easy assessment to make. Interestingly, there just as easily could have been students sitting on mats next to you in the arena who have been attending since the 1980s, and they're happy with the teaching.

It seems to my unsophisticated view that there are some similarities between cult membership and drug dependency. In both cases, the motivator may the desire to fix something, or replace something missing from one's life. The cult leader or drug dealer dangles a very seductive product to reel in the victim. Some people can take a hit of crack or attend a cult meeting and walk away, never to return. Other people can become sober with a lot of work. For others, the game is over and a life long addiction ensues. So why can some people just walk away, some people struggle to get free and there is hardly any hope for others? Of course I don't expect an quick answer; this seems like it could be the basis for more than one PhD dissertation.

The other thing that I find interesting is the range of cult experiences. Some people aren't attracted in the first place. Some people eventually exit, and harbor bittterness. Some relapse and slide back into the cult. Others, decide they've had enough, but still maintain a relationship at a distance and stay on at least somewhat friendly terms. That's the nature versus nurture I am thinking aobut; what are the risk factors: inherited or in the environment that lead to cult susceptiblity?

I found the 2006 LARSE part 2 video with Carroll Cobbs very interesting. Carroll was obviously a very educated and rational person, even with a background in physics. Still he associated with JZ/R. That shows that there isn't anything, "dumb," or, "wrong," with people that join cults. It can happen to anybody. I also got the impression that Carroll didn't harbor animosity when he decided he no longer wanted to be so involved, but he did still feel the attraction. Reference: http://video.google.com/googleplayer.sw ... 0899846516 (24 minutes into the video).

What really gets me is that some of the RSE teaching seems sensible, perhaps even beautiful. I just shake my head when JZ/R launches into the wild stuff about lizard aliens, UFOs, grey men, Bildeberg Group, etc. A friend played a Ramtha CD for me where JZ/R starts out reasonable enough in the beginning, and after half an hour she's telling wild stuff about UFOs. She also rambled for something like 15 minutes how RSE isn't a cult, which seemed like proof enough to me that it is. I couldn't stand to listen all the way to the end, and exucsed myslef. I can listen to all the wild talk I want every night for free on the radio show AM Coast to Coast. I think much of it is the exact same material that RSE presents.

freemysoul
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by freemysoul » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:38 am

Ockham,
The drug addiction analogy really struck a cord with me. When JZ started with the wine ceremonies, I had dozens of friends in the school. I also invited several new people, which I terribly regret, who had drug addiction or alcohol issues they had sorted out through treatment, meetings, church............etc...... What I watched from those four or five years is heart wrenching. My beautiful friends, resulting to acts that I thought below them, because now they had a justification to use alcohol, and smoke tobacco, so it was an easy step for them to completely fall apart. What I learned from that harrowing experience, and the loss of more than one friend, that I attribute to JZ's deceit, and their desire to "behold God", is that there are people in this world who should not drink. Not ever. Not wine, not beer, not any of it. This is a very controversial subject, I know, but after I watched beautiful, kind, compassionate, extraordinary people turn into monsters because of JZ's "discipline", my experience will forever hold that there really is such a thing as alcoholism and drug addiction, no matter what JZ Knight tries to convince people, I watched it first hand. The sicker part of this shameful betrayal, is that JZ turned around and blamed it all on the 'students'. Granted, they acted on their own volition, of their own free will, but were tricked and deceived into doing something they would have never done, had JZ Knight not convinced them that they would 'change the chemistry in their brain', and 'get even closer to beholding the god within', by drinking wine in extreme excess.

ex
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by ex » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:55 am

here some update out of the master connection:
It’s been about 8 months since Ramtha strongly advised his Asian students to leave their home country and find a safe place to prepare for the days that are here. Many students from Japan, Taiwan, China, Korea, and others moved to other countries to find homes that they could begin their preparations. This was and remains an enormous challenge for all these students and their families who accompanied them.
Many students around the world sent donations to the Masters Fund, and to the Masters Connection in an effort to help ease their burden. The donations came in swift in the form of financial aid, food donations, clothing, blankets, furniture, tents, and household goods. Through these donations simple humanitarian needs were made available to many of those Asian students relocating to Washington State. Through these events, it became clear that the student efforts needed a single place to coordinate the donations and be available for these students to collect the items they needed as they become available. In response, Conrad and I opened our home and property to the collection of these donations for the students to come and obtain whatever they needed in this journey. From an initial student group of 120, more or less, many of these students were clothed, fed, hosted by other students to have living arrangements, and assisted in many other ways-all supported by many RSE students around the world. We received clothing from European students who mailed packages from their own countries, as well as from Mexico and other states in the U.S. The support was beautiful and grand.
Many of the Asian students frequently traveled back and forth between the U.S. and their native country to keep their visa’s current and legal. This was another challenge that often drained their personal funds and left them in difficult circumstances requiring assistance with housing, transportation, and daily physical needs. All your contributions have gone to this effort without any administrative staff or costs. As of today, there are approximately 35 – 45 Asian students who continue to live in our area. Some of them continue to have host families who support their daily living. Some have obtained student visa’s and are attending local community colleges taking on a variety of courses. Many of them are still struggling to become self-sufficient and to provide for their daily meals. Many have not been able to buy property or to obtain those items which are recommended for the days to come-including their food and water. Property in the area is too high for them to buy as single entities or as a small family and they have been renting RV’s, travel trailers, rooms, and cottages. They are endeavoring to form small groups for their long term needs. All these projects are enormous challenges for just regular working citizens that live in this country, and much greater for those students unable to work for their needs or their daily bread.
In this holiday season, we are finding a few students who are still cold, needing small electric heaters, blankets, rain boots, etc to deal with a cold winter whose icy winds and great white silence began in earnest this week. Yes, there is still much we as a student body can do to ease the burden of our own RSE student body and I humbly urge you to consider making any contribution you can this season to the Masters’ Fund, or the Masters Connection so we can create a season of small abundance that can be their runner to greater abundance in their futures. We will be putting together baskets for the season for those students still in great need and we hope you will find some opportunity to continue the generous spirit we have seen demonstrated these last eight months. Thank you to all. Thank you for your kindness, your generous hearts, your passion to help your brothers and sisters in the great work, and for your selflessness during their time of need even when we all face our own challenges in these days. Bless you.
- Jenise Mugler
http://www.mastersconnection.com/index. ... the-march2
from 120 uprooted people 40 left. also the visa question is answered.

Vanilla
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Vanilla » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Doesn't the school teach you to create your own money?

Aren't the Japanese wondering what happened to the " you have three days to get out" warning?


Since a very scary JZ KNIGHT- as- Ramtha scared them into moving to Yelm, with her prediction of a second tsunami coming and wiping all of Japan away, She should take care of them. She is in some way responsible. These people think she is god. They believe every word she says, as Ramtha. Their faith is in their god who tells them these things are coming and they need to move to Yelm. SO they do and they are stuck and broke and poor. Now they rely on begging.

ex
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by ex » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:10 pm

120 asian coming - 80 wondering = 40 left brainwashed and filling jzrs lines. i wonder how many are current at the end of the year. jz as ramtha asked before students to relocate. the yelm master scene always needed fresh student money to exist.

Ockham
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:51 am

Hi Ex,

Do you know where to find the article that you cited on MC2020? I wanted to share it with some Ramsters I know. I pasted the first sentence of the article into Google, and Google does hit one the sentence, but the URL returned by Google is that of the MC2020 main page. I searched though all the available pages on the MC2020 web site, and there doesn't seem to be a link to this article any longer.

Either that, or not surprisingly, I'm not doing something properly.

I could see how RSE might want to cover this up becuase it exposes that RSE tacitly or even actively condones their, "Masters," cheating on their visas by taking worthless courses at the local community colleges so they can stay in the United States. That is really a shame becuase student visas are a limited resource, and meant for students that have a real need to study in the US and will presumably ultimately contribute talent of vlaue to both the US and their home countries.

This would be good fodder for the media to chew upon, as illiegal immigrants and visa cheating are the hot button issues. RSE backing visa cheating is the stuff of potential political suicide.

Laughing: that RSE doesn't itself count toward somethnig that can be used as the basis of a student visa! Hee-hee-hee! :D


Ockham
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:11 am

Correction!

I found the article. It is under the heading of Maters on the March, near the top of the current first web page.

My apologies, but my remarks about the disingenuous use of student visas still stands, of course.

Ockham
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:31 am

Thanks Ex. I found the article simultaneously as you were posting the link.

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ponysong
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by ponysong » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:47 am

This would be good fodder for the media to chew upon, as illiegal immigrants and visa cheating are the hot button issues. RSE backing visa cheating is the stuff of potential political suicide.
What about sham marriages arranged by RSE so that foreign "students" can stay in the U.S? From what my RSE ex-BF told me, I think it's common practice in RSE. I would be surprised if there wasn't some of that going on with the Japanese members, too.

ex
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by ex » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:38 am

by all means get jz alias ramtha behind bars or ruin her. what frustrates me is that she rips families apart ruins people and can do this under the protection of the law and we have to think about a detour to get to her. further frustrating is that she has her followers who think she is real and celebrate her for abusing them. anybody who knows about the no of attendance for the follow ups? maybe there is hope that students wake up. otherwise i will still take a provocative stand on the issue of brainwashed jzr followers. they need tough love like a meth junky because they do damage together with jz knight.

Ockham
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:30 pm

You can look up the student visa requirements at the US State Department web site:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1268.html

The RSE, "masters," from Asia posing as community college students are lieing about all the requirements for obtaining a visa:
Qualifying for a Student Visa

The Immigration and National Act is very specific with regard to the requirements which must be met by applicants to qualify for the student visa. The consular officer will determine whether you qualify for the visa. Additionally, applicants must demonstrate that they properly meet student visa requirements including:

•Have a residence abroad, with no immediate intention of abandoning that residence;
•Intend to depart from the United States upon completion of the course of study; and
•Possess sufficient funds to pursue the proposed course of study.

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David McCarthy
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:05 pm

Thanks for that Ockham

This is all very relevant...and one method to protect our families.
I hope someone in the US drops the U.S. Border Control a hint!
here ya go..
Contact Us | U.S. Border Control
http://www.usbc.org/contact-us-2/

If JZ Knight and her RSE staff try to enter NZ again they better have the correct visa's in order this time!
NZ doesn't so easily tolerate foreign cults setting up shop here.
I would recommend to all EMF supporters outside the US to notify their border control agencies
when RSEInc visits their neighborhood !

List of national border guard agencies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_na ... d_agencies

_______________________________________

Hi ex
they need tough love like a meth junky because they do damage together with jz knight.
Perhaps so...
but personally I don't equate meth junkies with victims of cults, what we are looking at here with RSE victims is what Dr. Margaret Singer describes as
THE SIX CONDITIONS FOR A THOUGHT REFORM ENVIRONMENT
1) DECEPTION: Keeping the person unaware of the hidden agenda in order to control and change the person
2) DESTABILIZATION: Controlling the person’s physical environment and “thinking time”
3) DEPENDENCY AND DREAD: Creating a sense of powerlessness, anxiety, and fear in the person
4) DISCONNECTION: Suppressing old behavior and attitudes
5) DEVELOPING THE CULT PSEUDOPERSONALITY: Eliciting new behavior and attitudes
6) DENIAL AND DEDICATION: Maintaining a closed system of logic and restricting criticism

in other words... "cult brainwashing'... :idea:

David

Millennial Cults Overview
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~rsmith/overview.htm
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

freemysoul
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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:41 am

So it isn't 'The Days To Come' any longer, now it is 'The Days That Are Here', wow. I am reminded of all the justifications I made for JZ's 'prognostications' and lies, just as this woman does in her article. Every time someone questioned JZ or my belief system at the time, I had a pat answer for all disbelief, often parroted from JZ herself. It isn't that 'students' are dumb, they just can't face the facts of living a giant lie for years and sometimes decades, and are so far removed from what they knew as 'normal', that getting back there seems impossible. Sometimes it seems easier for someone so engulfed in JZ's web of deceit to continue the charade, either justifying it by saving face, or wishing and hoping like hell that maybe there is a shred of truth in everything they have been told. 'Maybe, just maybe, everyone else in the world is wrong and JZ is right' was what I held onto. I know that this sort of ideology and fantasy kept me involved for much longer than my soul told me I should be, and I know many of my friends are stuck in the same conundrum as I type this. I do hope that they find EMF as I did, understanding that saving face and continuing their cult following is much more painful and expensive than cutting all ties to retain the sanity they have left.

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Rooster » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:08 am

freemysoul, so true!!! I find the ones that have been there so long gave up their whole life. To back out now is just too painful for them. They hang on to every thread of hope. That was beautifully said.

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:17 am

Thank you Rooster. There is hope for them all, even though JZ has most of them so baffled with bullshit that filtering out control and manipulation from reason, is at times, impossible.

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:17 am

CUT/Summit Lighthouse had this same immigration problem esp during late 1980s thru 1992 or what came to be called "the doomsday cycle" when they concentrated on everyone moving to Montana to partake of the enormous survival shelters there. Suddenly there was a rash of "marriages" among so-called 100% staff who were supposed to be celibate :roll:

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/23791/e ... triumphant

I and other ex-members spoke with INS who investigated for years....NOTHING happened as far as legal fines or indictments.
Don't get your hopes up---INS has bigger problems than petty cult members. But it is worth a try :!:

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:23 pm

Probably the best way to go about it would be to put a bug in the ear in one of the local TV channel news operations in Seattle. There are a number of unfair (from the cheaters' perspective) factors that might make RSE visa cheating a little more newsworthy that it would have been in the past. The weak US economy, general xenophobia, and lingering 9-11 terrorism worries could add together for more than usual public distaste of RSE's shenanigans.

It may be noted to the media outlets that:

1. The visa cheaters take jobs away from US citizens.

2. The cheaters take up seats in the higher educational system and deny citizens access to retraining.

3. The cheaters use up community social support resources that would have otherwise gone to citizens who have already funded those services for themselves though prior taxes.

4. The cheaters are in the US because of RSE's doomsday prophecies: there is no telling how mentally unstable they may be - they already threw away their safe lives in their home countries.

5. The pretense under which the cheaters are in the US is a clear violation of federal immigration law.

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:56 pm

I think our immigration laws have been ignored for several years, except when it benefitted the politicians, like the sham wall.

The Dems want to get them amnesty, so they will have a whole new underclass' who they can exploit for their votes, and the Reps want to keep them available for their handlers to exploit for their cheap labor.

I'm afraid today's politicians put self interest first, party politics second, and the good of the country and people, a distant 3rd, if at all.

Sorry, I didn't men to try to turn this into the politics forum! :roll:
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Ockham » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:29 pm

Point well taken, but that is why I suggested talking to a media outlet like KING TV, for example. Try Judy Kinght in the press: no rules need apply in the court of public opinion. Visa cheating to sneak into the US to avoid the purported coming Japanese tsunami has made-for-TV melodrama written all over it. It is the type of psuedo-news reporting that TV stations love.

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Re: JZ/R asks students to show compassion for Japanese in Ye

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:41 am

Go for it! Any kind of negative publicity is GOOD!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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