event on sunday

The RSE teachings The Days To Come "TDTC" would have us believe that the world is going down the tubes with all sorts of doom & gloom.
That the Yelm area is protected.
LAB
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event on sunday

Unread post by LAB » Mon May 09, 2011 6:14 pm

My brother's wife is a current student, and they have been preparing like crazy for June. He told me yesterday that on Sunday "Ramtha" said that the events in June WILL NOT be happening because of the students. HE said everything that they have been doing changed the future and these events will not occur. Just letting everyone know...Now hopefully my mother will calm down :)

ex
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by ex » Mon May 09, 2011 6:55 pm

she must got it that she came out too strong. normal she lets ebb it away without dementing. so falling in panic prevents disasters. i think emf prevented it with its critic. robair you kept them on theire tow i would be curious to see their faces discussing how to handle the quotes from the christian. maybe they involved jzr and she backed off.

ex
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by ex » Mon May 09, 2011 7:02 pm

thanks for the update. we can stop 'not believing' now. just a joke. i hope the damage which rse followers do to their loved ones doesen"t hurt your familie too much. this end of the world will happen again. what does rse sugest for falling silver and comodeties?

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Robair
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Robair » Mon May 09, 2011 8:57 pm

Hello Lab
Thank you for the update.

The same thing Happened to us in the early 1990 to 1995 we went true the same scenario, getting ready for the end of the world, and to have the Buffon telling us that we had change the time line and future. The only problem with that is none of us remembered worked on that time line we were way too busy getting ready and in fear mode to focus, I am guessing that the same is happening with them Now.
What a shame I was looking forward to see how my Motorhome was going to handle that 1000 foot wave, that could have been a great ride.
Are we still on for the 2012 Mayan Calandar scenario, or did they throwed that one in with this time line as a bonus since they were in the saving of the world mode.
Robair
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

Kensho
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Kensho » Mon May 09, 2011 10:51 pm

QUOTE: "she must got it that she came out too strong. normal she lets ebb it away..."

Normally she also charges for live streams or replays but the most recent streams are offered for free. Something tells me that her lawyers are advising her that the scare-the-pants-off-follower streams are fuel for criminal charges should anyone do something violent or harmful to others, or themselves in thier aftermath.

Already some followers from other countries have moved to Yelm seeking protection from the propaganda contained in those streams. USA Immigration might find that a good reason to investigate RSE and its activities more closely.
The retraction may be nothing more than implementation of the CMA (cover my ass) protocol. Right Judith?

May all RSE followers take to heart the retraction as they did the propaganda; only more so.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

Vanilla
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re: event on sunday

Unread post by Vanilla » Mon May 09, 2011 11:56 pm

That should be clean and clear that Ramtha is BS.

To plainly say JUNE 15th, JZ said that, and then Ramtha predicted before the end of April. I heard it clean and clear.

By June 15th Japan was supposed to have been gone by then, by human hands, no less..man made earthquake.. and the Pacific will have come for us, chasing us down to kill is. The Pacific hunting you down. Full of details of people killing your kids in front of you for your food and water.
17b hours of this doomsday scenario made a lot of people crazy, insane.

Now, its not going to happen?

Anyone with a mind can see this.

I mean its pretty shocking. To play games with people's lives. Who believe Ram is who she says she is..without any proof, just faith and superstitious gossip.

I literally could start a rumor myself and watch it go around the school as truth.

Ramtha: Ah I was just kidding!


To put his students thru all of that. The fear, using the Japanese Earthquake --to make a fortune via internet streaming.

I thought the emergency stream was to warn us of something bigger. HEY WHY DIDNT RAM HAVE EMERGENCY STREAM BEFORE THE QUAKE?

To scare people for 17 hours, tears and nightmares...then to say months later.." I was just joking!" in essence.

That is Bs and any current student reading this should see this clean and clear. You have been fooled by a crazy lady's alter personality.

I am so angry. I am so angry. To sit there for 17 hours and not even taking a break..to be told all this would happen. For sure. He sees. He knows...

For those pathetic people who didnt do anything, well, your time for survival is up..you are dead. Unless you can find someone with a UG and start making a deal. You had all the time to prepare, the times are here now. What have you done? Nothing, well... at least find a UG for your child. So your kid can survive..while you die. IT WAS AWFUL..

Then, sorry, not happening. .. after everyone is prepared and underground. Throwing their fortunes into Yelm.

I just do not believe the balls on Judy. Its an outrage. Don't her staff question that? Don't they have those thoughts, like how convenient, to prepare a way out later when nothing happens. Tell me her Ivy League boys and girls cant see this?

Funny thing life is. Nothing will happen June 15. Ram said it himself.

But what if it does..what if some horrific event happens on June 15th..then WRONGTHA PREDICTED IT!! How smart. He still is right no matter what happens.

I have other things to do- believe me, but all the students tape the streaming events. I have been to many parties and have seen the collections. There are programs online they buy to record or some just buy a camcorder. Some people have thousands of teachings on tape and computer. On those flash drives.--I would love to make a mix compilation of all the hilarious things Ram says. Then people will see what a nutcase Judy is. A nutcase. I honestly dont have the time. But I wish someone would and post it online.

I really want to be done with the school..done with this whole thing, before it gets too embarrassing to be associated with such cult-- pretending to be a school of the mind.

You got to throw away your mind first.
Throw away all your senses. Disbelieve and distrust yourself.

ex
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by ex » Tue May 10, 2011 1:47 am

sadly the waking up of current students is less than expected. even after this. there r enough excuses to soften down what happened: change of the timeline,weeding out the not serious students to make space for fresh ones, here is one from me: ramtha leaves soon he just wanna make it urgent. that the students in 5 years understand. you r of the lucky ones who get away. since you did disciplines you r indoctrinated. it takes some time to get free of rse. the battle might include: become a sozial outcast[especialy when your sounding was 100% rse students, depression,lak of orientation. but you will do well you r smart. i guess only jzr can destruct herself maybe this is the beginning of the downwards road.

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Tue May 10, 2011 4:32 am

I asked a ramster whom I know, why would Ramtha put all the students through the furious underground shelter digging, then zip, now it is a different story. What the heck is wrong that Ramtha that Ramtha can't see ahead in time that the timeline would be changed? Why did Ramtha wait until now to let them know? No answer, it seems.

That will be $200 well spent on the live stream for a change for students to hear that doomsday has been postponed.

Those UG shelters should still be useful for the December 2012 event or other disaster coming.

joe sz
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by joe sz » Tue May 10, 2011 8:01 am

EVERY CULT LEADER that stresses immanent apocalypse uses revelations to create a crisis in the group mind. This works very well to keep all believers anxious, thus easier to manipulate. The fear factor works to increase giving time to workshops and giving more money to leader. The JWs find this formula very effective having declared an endtime maybe a dozen times in past 100+ years. CUT made endtime predictions regularly from early 1970s. Fundamentalists in Christianity and Islam also use the formula---note the incredible success of the "Left Behind" series among evangelical Christians. [11 million sold]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind_(series)

Here's a decent comparison of eschatologies among the theistic religions:
http://contenderministries.org/prophecy/eschatology.php

Lost in Space
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue May 10, 2011 2:06 pm

The Left Behind series. I bought all 13 of the rather expensive books, because I wanted to know what fundamental Christians believe - a hobby of mine, exploring other faiths. Not bad, if read as sciene fiction! Somewhat trying patronizing attitude to the Jews, though. The interesting thing for us here is that when I went to sell the books to a used book dealer, he said "Not much call for that sort of thing hereabouts (Toronto, Canada), maybe in the Bible Belt in the States I could sell these, but here, I would end up putting them on the $1.00 per table outside, and even then I think they would hang around." And I couldn't find the videos at any of the several stores I looked for them in.
On Mother's Day, I was on a busy street corner and an unseen hand handed me a CD, with a sticker that says MEGIDDO I & II. I watched about 3 minutes of it and I am guessing it was produced by Fundamental Christians.
Yes, RSE does not have a corner on the End of the World doom and gloom scenarios and appocalyptic visions playing out in the collective consciousness. To thinking, unindoctrinated people of whatever stripe, it really does look as though storing extra food rations and finding higher ground and secure shelter is a prudent idea, though living near the Pacific Coast on a faultline and right next to a volcano does not appear to be a good survival strategy.

Vanilla
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Vanilla » Tue May 10, 2011 6:57 pm

I have some news.

A half half student came to me and said

You are not going to believe what Ramtha did at the last event.

He charged 200 for a Q and A and then refused to answer any questions, he just said YOU GUYS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS


Was this the event?

I bet you there was stupid questions anyways.

AM I SAFE? AM I safe?

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Tue May 10, 2011 7:39 pm

Of course, there was more than a little touch of sarcasm when I wrote that would be $200 well spent. Any RSE money goes down a quantum rat hole. I'm sure the devoted ramsters will rationalize the June deadline to build the pointless UG shelter was some grandiose exercise, and it was indeed required to alter the timeline.

You know there's got to be a, "but wait, there's more!" lecture coming, perhaps for $300 this time, that will require an endless series of yet more videos to be wateched or emergency sessions to be attended.

I've tried to point out to ramsters that most religious organizations don't charge admission fees, though they do take offerings. The standard reply is that Ramtha makes you do that to prove you're genuinely serious about the teaching. I point out that Ramtha said that his studends are already chosen. If you're chosen then why the need to pay? Blank stare as response, or else laughably that RSE is on financial skids and needs all the help it can get - example they're taking up donations to build better bathroom facilities. Show them the Thurston County Auditor's web site shows JZ's mansion has more bathrooms than bedrooms. Hmm, maybe JZ could let ramsters use some of her bathrooms. Wink.

joe sz
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by joe sz » Wed May 11, 2011 5:09 am

wow, Lost---you read all 13 of Left Behind! Impressive. I could stomach only the first one. Another in that vein is Perretti's "This Present Darkness" which is the 1st of a series that sold well among fundies but not a bad read. It gives an idea how fundamentalists believe prayer works to stimulate angels in heaven to fight demons in a parallel universe. It reminded me of my CUT days when decrees/mantras/prayer were believed to stimulate ascended masters, gods and angels to act in our behalf. iow, mantras [as "spells" literally] are treated like energy or petrol that you can produce at a metaphysical refinery for use by the angels as fuel.
If you recall, Monsters Inc cartoon film uses the same childish premise saving "screams" in cans to use as fuel to energize the monster city.....

Lost in Space
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed May 11, 2011 12:40 pm

The magical power of prayer, taken up by most world faiths, is possibly science based, or at least, can be validated by medical science - cancer patients who are colletively prayed for do, for example, show statistically better outcomes. And believing that by sending forth Mantras or positive thoughts we can have a beneficial effect on others, this planet, and guardians or angels does not strike me as a toxic thought pattern, Joe. If I had to pick a magical thought, this would be it. The converse, though, fearing demons, could wreck one's life if taken to extremes: if we really are all clusters of vibrating particles, as has been somewhat established, wouldn't a thought effect matter in a sense?
I loved Monster's Inc., and there is a lesson there for RSE - in the end it was discovered that joyful laughter was a better source of energy than fear.
And there is a scene in one of the Harry Potter movies, where the students are being taught how to counter fear - render the object of their fears ridiculous in their own visualizations - for example, picturing a fierce dragon trying to balance itself on roller skates. That sort of "spell" is not harmful. Hey, it could work - imagine a grey man with claustrophobia who has blundered into a UG.

joe sz
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by joe sz » Thu May 12, 2011 7:20 am

Lost, I no longer believe in prayer magic, those studies you refer to as science suck as far as I see, and even as a catholic [or because I am] I do not see prayer as anything more than communion with the sacred. I won't go in to why but one criticism of this sort of mantra magic or so-called evidence that focussed prayer groups can effect cancer suffering is:
How can you tell which magic is working?
TMers say their hopping or "levitation" technique creates a "brainwave" forcefield of consciousness that helps everyone with disease and to relieve violence worldwide.
catholic nuns do novenas for world peace and to heal anyone in distress.
CUT folk do decrees, "the most powerful force in the universe" to alleviate world crime and heal everyone who would accept.
Wiccans send their spells continually for same reasons.
Buddhists put up prayer flags and spin prayer wheels that send "positive" energy for all.
The metaphysical airways are tangled with prayers for healing all the time.
iow, there is no way one can conduct a truly scientific, repeatable test to find evidence of specific prayer that heals a specific patient.
this does not mean prayer does not work, but how it works remains a mystery.
That is the only honest thing we can say, I think.

Lost in Space
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Lost in Space » Thu May 12, 2011 11:44 am

That is certainly your perogative, Joe. A circular argument though, IMO. If you suggest prayer works, isn't that enough? Guess it's just the word "magic" you find objectionable. How about the power of positive thought, does that sound hooey to you? I choose to go through my life thinking I can have a positive impact on others by maintaining an attitude of benevolence. Perhaps the best effect of believing that sending out positive thoughts and good wishes towards others is on the thinker/wisher.
I give you a quote from Brian Greene; The Elegant Universe author, from a chapter called "Entangling Space" in his other book, The Fabric of the Cosmos - and I am hoping that you will acknowledge that Brian Greene is a bona fide physicist:
"...one is hard pressed to find the survival advantage offered by a solid grasp of reality."

Lost in Space
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Lost in Space » Thu May 12, 2011 11:52 am

Ooops, that sentence was incomplete:
Perhaps the best effect of believing that sending out positive thoughts and good wishes towards others can make a difference is on the thinker/wisher.

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Thu May 12, 2011 6:53 pm

This thread is wandering off topic, but I like the discussion a lot...

In The fabric of the cosmos: space, time, and the texture of reality, Brain Green does a wonderful job of examining quantum entanglement in Chapter 4, pp 77-122. He stops short of endorsing a new-age love-fest of particles in his summary on p. 122, saying. "... such gushy talk is loose and overstated." He only devotes just one paragraphy as to why it is, "overstated," , and hat leaves me a bit unsatisfied. Using an example of a calcium atom emitting photons, Greene says that while the conenctions (quantum entanglement) are there, they are extremely delicate.

I don't think that dismisses the efficacy of prayer entirely. Delicate though its effect may be, perhaps paryer is the grain of sand that could be the tipping point between two outcomes. I think you can conclude, however, there are probably times that prayer won't change the outcome becasue the coarse variables of newtonian mechanics are overwhelming. You can fall over a cliff and pray not to hit the valley floor below, but the unfortunate results are all but certain. On the other hand, perhaps a million people praying might change whether a seratonin molecule crosses a synapse in the brain of a terrorist or not, the the result is a decision is made to free a hostage instead of holding him captive. The big problem is how do you make your prayers enrtangle the right thing and then have the desired result?

I am also with Joe in that it is difficult to test whether or not prayer is effective because the contrary side of the hypothesis can only be tested by having nobody at all pray, and that is not practical to do. It also requires being able to set up a repeatable experiment.

Lost in Space
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sat May 14, 2011 3:56 am

Ockham, you are awesomely knowledgeable...I did not mean to stray off topic, I was responding to what Joe had said.
I think there are a number of threads here that are relevant to EMF:
Why is engendering fear becoming an increasingly common modus operandi among various faith communities, including, it would appear from what Vanilla and others are saying, RSE?
Is that the best way to 'market' a set of beliefs or teachings?
In view of the pervasive and sensational nature of the disaster tidings hyped daily in the Media, does it make sense to think about preparedness, even if that is what one is urged to do by JZ?
What is a wholesome level of belief in anything?
Can we effect matter, outcomes, each other? Can we safely buy-in to the idea that we do, to some extent, create our reality? Is there a higher power? Does prayer have any positive effect? What is the right way of approaching the whole topic of the quantum field?
What is the best survival stratetegy?
This could go on...
I am thinking, perhaps it's best to choose those beliefs that best serve you, trust where you can, love what and who you can, and accept that there are things that are unprovable and unknowable.

joe sz
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by joe sz » Sat May 14, 2011 7:05 am

May 21 is Judgment Day: Christian group
By Janet Davison, CBC News
If the signs are to be believed, the end of the world as we know it starts on May 21.

Billboards are popping up around the globe, including in major Canadian cities, proclaiming May 21 as Judgment Day. "Cry mightily unto GOD for HIS mercy," says one of the mounted signs from Family Radio, a California-based sectarian Christian group that is sending one of its four travelling caravans of believers into Vancouver and Calgary within the next 10 days.

Family Radio's website is blunt in its prediction of Judgment Day and the rolling earthquake that will mark the beginning of the end. "The Bible guarantees it!" the site proclaims, under a passage from the book of Ezekiel, which says "blow the trumpet … warn the people."

Richard Ascough, a professor in the School of Religion at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont., has been watching Family Radio's campaign, and fully expects life as we know it to continue on May 22.

He has seen other apocalyptic predictions come and go, but Family Radio's differs in a notable way: it isn't accompanied by a bold, up-front request for money. And that's worrisome, in his mind.

"I think they really believe it's going to happen," Ascough said in an interview Tuesday.

What if Judgment Day doesn't come?
When groups such as this ask for a lot of money up front, it's possible to think they're "charlatans," Ascough said.

"When they're not doing that so blatantly, it worries me more, because I think they really do believe it and they can convince people who may end up in fact doing things like … quitting their jobs, selling their house, not necessarily to give the money to this group, but simply to divest themselves in light of Judgment Day."

And then that predicted Judgment Day doesn't come.

"We've seen that happen in groups before, and then people are just wiped out, not just emotionally because it didn't happen, but financially," said Ascough. "Some people, it's led to them taking their own lives when they realize what they have done."

Family Radio identifies itself on its website as a "non-profit, non-commercial, Christian radio network" set up in 1958 with one FM station in the San Francisco Bay area. From that station bought by Harold Camping and two others "with the sole intent of proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ," it has grown to a network of 66 stations through the U.S. It also broadcasts its programming internationally.

Some published estimates have put its net worth at $120 million or more.

"To have that kind of revenue base, if that's correct, suggests there must be quite a few listeners," said Ascough.

He said it is "hard to get a read" on the sectarian Christian group.

"Their theology is fundamentalist and yet still generally within the bounds of Christianity, until one gets to this date-setting business."

'Evidence found in the Bible'
On its website, Family Radio says May 21 as Judgment Day is "derived solely from evidence found in the Bible."

"Mr. Camping saw God had placed, in scripture, many important signs and proofs. These proofs alert believers that May 21st of 2011 is the date Christ will return for His people and begin a period of the final destruction of the world." All will be over on Oct. 21, "when God will completely destroy this earth and its surviving inhabitants," the website says.

This isn't the first time Camping has predicted the end of the world. He also targeted 1994 as a probable time, but on the website, Family Radio says, "important subsequent Biblical information was not yet known."

Ascough said he thinks Camping's way of reading scripture is "irresponsible."

"It's not the way these Biblical texts were meant to be read, even by their original writers."

And even if they were, scholars can find mistakes in the mathematics and historical assumptions put forward in the Judgment Day predictions, he said. "It's all very slippery."

Ascough hasn't seen such visible activities like billboards from Family Radio in Canada before. He credits technology with allowing the group to reach more broadly into Canada and worldwide.

"They're savvy enough to have figured out how to market themselves well."

Cultural fascination
Family Radio is hardly the first group to predict the end. Movies, literature and television have told tales of a coming apocalypse, in many forms.

"Once it gets mocked on
The Simpsons
, you know it's taken hold," said Ascough.

Ascough sees both a cultural fascination with end-of-the-world scenarios and a fascination with the Bible behind the appeal that religious groups such as Family Radio can hold for followers.

"Quite a few people are attracted to fundamentalist groups of all stripes because many people don't like to live with ambiguity."

While Ascough predicts the world will survive any suggestions of its demise on May 21, he fully expects such ideas will be revived from time to time.

"Almost every generation has this kind of group, so I don't think they're going to go away."

Doomsday predictions
End-of-the-world predictions — or suggestions of other calamities — have been made for centuries. Here's a look at some of them:

Dec. 12, 2012.
The Mayan calendar is widely misinterpreted as ending on that date. Many have predicted that cataclysmic events will take place.

Jan. 1, 2000.
Otherwise known as Y2K, it was a widespread prediction that computers wouldn't be able to handle the arrival of 01/01/2000. They did.

Aug. 18, 1999.
Charles Criswell King, an American psychic, said the world would end that day. His other predictions ranged from Denver being struck by a ray from space to saying in March 1963 that something would happen to U.S. President John F. Kennedy in November 1963 that would mean he wouldn't run for re-election in 1964.

Dec. 17, 1919.
Meteorologist Albert Porta said that six planets would come together that day, with the resulting magnetic current causing the Earth to be engulfed by the exploding sun.

1914:
Based on the Bible's book of Daniel, the Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) estimated the beginning of the war of Armageddon. It was one of several similar predictions.

Oct. 22, 1844.
Followers of American Baptist preacher William Miller, founder of the Millerite movement, considered it the Great Disappointment when the second coming of Jesus, which he had predicted, did not occur on that date.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... radio.html

Vanilla
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Vanilla » Sat May 14, 2011 1:45 pm

I am so done with all apocalyptic groups. I really do not ever want to be associated with the Ramtha School of Enlightenment. It's potential-- -- is so dangerous. JZ addicted to chemicals, alcohol, Prozac, daily injections and now 5 hour energy drinks..

I really believe at times she blacks out and is not responsible for anything she says. Like the drunk girls at bars who mix alcohol with pills who at the end of the night the security have to remove by force.

Did you guys know Jim Jones used to make people stand on stage and confess their sins? You guys probably know that.

All I know is, anyone who even speaks out against a group is in danger, where millions of dollars are at stake. Even talking out against a cult scares alot of people. But the more who do, the more it will change and people will take notice. We are allowed to speak our truth. Not Our Truth, but THE truth. There is such a thing as THE TRUTH for everybody.

I just want so bad to find the MAGIC WORDS that will convince the believers of the truth. What is really going on here.
Mass delusion. Anything goes. Your mind out the window. Obey.

And you know according to this FBI file called Meggido Project, apocalyptic cults are labeled as potential terrorists. Thats bad news. Hopefully those ever involved with the school are not listed somewhere.

Another reason why newcomers need to know. The Ramtha School Of Enlightenment is Not a school of the mind, its an apocalyptic cult..and being a member is very dangerous by implication.
Ramtha with "his" solidarity videos and all those quotes he said that are listed here, from the 17 hour stream, all those threats to the government. The pope.


What do you guys think am I right? Or am I just really freaked out ?

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Sat May 14, 2011 3:01 pm

Vanilla, what you wrote does resonate with me. I've worried mre than once that RSE could turn into a Jonestown, Heaven's Gate or Branch Davidians. Some of JZ's devotees are into the cult to the extent that they'd drink the Kool Aid if she gave the orders. My knowledge is a mere scratch on the surface compared to what Joe and the others on EMF know about RSE and other cults. One of the big reasons I started reading EMF was to try to gauge the danger level of RSE presents for ramsters I know. When they first started talking about Ramtha, I wrote it off as fairly harmless; just another New Age gimmick, then the survialist and doomsday talk started take over a large portion of their lives.

A big difference seems to be that JZ runs her operation more like a Disneyland theme park than a cult commune that has its followers living on the grounds full time. The devotees go to RSE to get their New Age dose of entertainment, them leave. The business side of RSE seems to do a pretty good balancing act of keeping RSE controversial enough to keep the school interesting to prospective students, but also to be careful enough to pay its taxes more or less on time and give a very small amount of support ot the local community. Jones and Koresh locked horns with the government and didn't try to be especially friendly neighbors in their communities.

Unfortuantely for Thurston County, some devotees choose to live almost right next door burying shipping containers to build the UG shelters that JZ/R entertains them about. The devotees that don't see RSE as entertainment are worrisome. I know a person who joined an RSE subgroup that's (still) bracing for the June 15th Armageddon, and they're ready to bar the door to the UG and shoot anything that approaches. Maybe such people would be wacked-out anyway, and would find some other doomsday seer like Michael Rosenwald (May 21 Judgement day guy) if RSE weren't around.

I think JZ uses the doomsday crud as a convenient way to keep students filling her money trough from which she and her investors feed. If the message were love and light, people would take one or two classes, then that would be it. With the doomsday message, she can keep varying the disaster talk ad infinium and justify it with changing the timeline. Some students eventually see though it, that none of it ever comes to pass. She's got the slick beginner's sessions and book business that is a nice soucre of income, and it keeps reeling in replacement students.

JZK Inc. is a corporation owned by Knight, Hoffman, Flick, Simmons, etc. and it is chartered as a for-profit. It literally is all about the money. That's where RSE is different from the Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate.

At the end of the day, RSE itself probably isn't dangerous per se, but the talk handed out by RSE is worrisome. JZ certainly is protected to be allowed to say whatever she wants as long as it isn't liebelous, and we have to accept that. It is too bad there isn't some sort of sticker like the label on a bag of Twinkies that has to be stuck on the white book to alert readers that it contains a lot of empty calories and intellectual high fructose corn syrup. RSE has already supun off the nutty French couple that moved to Zambia and ended in a tragic shoot-out with police. Let's pray it doesn't go any farther than that.

Kensho
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Kensho » Sat May 14, 2011 3:13 pm

Hello Vanilla,

In many ways I think that you are right. Judith's addictions are likely many and may not only be chemical but IMO, also psychological. I do believe that Judith has lost some cognitive/memory ability and that is coming through in her latest performances :twisted: . IMO Whether this is substance induced, age related or a combination of the two, is not the main issue.

Whatever the cause of Judith's recent unbalanced escalation, to follow someone like that is probably not a good thing because whom we tend to hang out with, we tend to become more like. To follow the lead of someone who is erratic and unbalanced will likely lead the follower to the same sort of behaviour and in this case, that presents many concerns.

The recent promotion of the energy drink is just another one of those things that have potential harm...especially if mixed with excessive alcohol. This was the reason that "Four Loco" was banned in many states, including Washington. The combination of caffeine, stimulants and alcohol can be deadly; as it allows one to consume more alcohol than would normally be possible without passing out. Alcohol poisoning sent several University of Washington students to hospital recently and prompted the ban of Four Loco, but some people simply mix energy drinks with alcohol for the same effect...alcohol poisoning is the potential result.

On another note, although it is impossible to truly know what the US Government's interests are with respect to specific cults, it seems that there is some interest in The RSE. I am from Canada and for 3 years I would drive across the Canada/USA border several times a year (at least 4/yr) to attend events. RSE provided two statement to members from other countries which were written by US Senators (dated in the late nineties and early 2000), in which it was stated that they had visited RSE and had determined that it was a school of sorts, where classes were held etc. Sorry but I can't exactly recall what it said. This document was to be presented at the border to help facilitate entry into the US and so I did present it to them. In my delusional state during that time I also proudly stated to them that I was a member of the RSE whenever I crossed into the US in response to the question of the purpose of my visit.

On two occasions I got pulled out of the line up and was taken in for questioning...they recorded the address of the RSE and contact numbers and names of the staff on each occasion. Other than these occasions I had absolutely no difficulty entering the USA once they swiped my passport. Clearly they had some sort of record on file because I was often asked if I was going to the RSE and if the address or location of where I was going had changed.

After leaving RSE there was over a one year lapse before I re-entered the USA to take a course at the University of Washington. I was pulled out of the line up on this occasion and was again taken in for questioning. They asked about my affiliation with RSE and if I was going there. I probably got pulled in for questioning because I had not been across the border for more than a year and stated to the officer at the drive through portion of the border crossing that I was no longer attending RSE when he asked me about it.
During questioning in the border office, when I informed them that I was no longer affiliated with the RSE they wanted to know why. It was then that I informed them that I believed that it was a cult and that I believed that it promoted behaviours and practices that were unsafe for individuals, communities and society as a whole. During this questioning (over an hour), they asked about those promotions and practices and I told them about the DTC teachings, mind control, conspiracy theories, anti-gov't promotions, substance/psychological abuse, child abuse and the result that it seemed to have on some of the people who were attending; and also on those who had chosen to leave RSE. I referred them to the EMF Website and informed them that I was a moderator on the site, which I was at that time. They found that very interesting and I waited for another hour while two Border Patrol Officers reviewed the EMF site, often answering questions related to what they were reading.

After that I was asked if I owned fire arms (I did at the time) and whether or not they were registered (yes). They photocopied my fire arms licence (necessary to obtain firearms in Canada), and asked some other questions with respect to the topic of fire arms and their intended use; such as when had I last been hunting. The answer to that question was over twenty-five years ago (It was a lie as I never did go hunting...there was a gun at the remote farm/hermitage for emrgency use with potential wild life issues), which long before becoming affiliated with RSE and the relatively recent firearms licence issue. They asked if I had engaged in the sport of target practice beore selliing my firearms (No). They were left to draw their own conclusions as to why I had obtained firearms while I was a member of RSE...no need to be psychic there :roll: .

I have since crossed into the USA regularly to atttend courses at the U of W without difficulty but I expect that there is some record on file that I was once affiliated with a cult-RSE. Perhaps it also shows that I support those who choose to leave RSE through EMF. I also suspect that the US Gov't is fully aware of the goings on at RSE and are watching developments as well as the followers there closely. It felt good to have it on record somewhere official that I am no longer affiliated with RSE as well as to know that the US Gov't has access to EMF. This, if for no other reason that should something nasty happen at RSE or because of it, it is on record that the US Gov't had knowledge of, and had ample access to knowledge of the history and goings on of RSE. By not taking action sooner rather than later, they may very well be engaing in a tacit agreement with what goes on there.

Vanilla, you made the right decision to stop following RSE and your posts have been extremely beneficial to the readers of EMF; for you have provided the most updated information in a candid and honest manner. Thank you so much for that.
May you have a good and happy life from here on :D .

With love and appreciation,
Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Sat May 14, 2011 3:23 pm

Correction:

The May 21 Doomsday Guy from Family Radio is Richard Ascough, Richard Rosenwald wrote an article about Family Radio in the Washington Post. My sincere apologies.

joe sz
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by joe sz » Sat May 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Vanilla,
No one predicted that Heaven's Gate run by Marshall Applewhite would end in ritual, mass suicide but that became a small, closed cult that caused little tension with neighbors at the end, and it had no celebrities to attract much attention to it. The similarity here to RSE/JZ is that the leader, Applewhite, projected "escape" from this "vehicle" body onto group doctrine most likely because he believed he had terminal cancer [as it turned out, he did not!].

Jones of Peoples Temple and Koresh of Branch Davidians attracted government interference due to paranoid rantings of leader and closed, armed living behaviors. CUT also attracted government attention for similar reasons, huge survival shelters and weapons in place, but Waco happened in April 1993, thus bringing heavy criticism to CUT--- it became a different,
"positive" cult, dropping most of the paranoid survival teaching by the time Prophet stepped down with dementia in 1997. The huge shelter became infested with vermin from neglect.

JZ has some of Applewhite's paranoid projections, wanting to "ascend" or escape Gnostic style from this body, only she's using drugs and alcohol, nip and tuck surgery, and an increased dependence on radicalized followers for her identity to avoid the inevitable---she is dying and fading from her "remarkable" run as Ramtha's cult messenger.

There is no "pattern" to a cult's demise, other than "founder's disease" which means the founder will not appoint a new charismatic authority. I think no one can predict whether JZ will take a number of devotees down with her in a bizarre Gnostic ritual--most likely the group will begin falling apart like CUT did, sustaining a number of devotees for a few decades---like some clueless Japanese soldiers yet fighting WW2 in the Phillipine jungle in the 1950s.

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Sun May 15, 2011 1:09 am

Thank you so much Kensho and Joe. Both your responses are extraordinarily lucid, candid and rational. I feel very humbled by the depth of your understanding. I hope some day I'll be able to share some of these postings with future ex-ramsters. Later, maybe we will be able laugh at some of the silly aspects of RSE.

I'm hoping that JZ is really in RSE for the money, and some day she will pack up the tent and declare retirement. My fantasy is that Ramtha will lecture that the students finally made it to being masters and permanently shifted the timeline and now JZ and Ramtha can retire to Spain.

Who knows, maybe JZ can't rise above the meglomania, and she won't be able to stomach retirement, letting vanity instill fear of being seen exiting a has-been. Were this the case, perhaps it could go down like Heaven's Gate with a mass suicide at an event. Let's pray not, and hope JZ sees herself as running a New Age theme park which she can shut down gracefully when the time comes.

ex
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by ex » Sun May 15, 2011 9:34 am

since i heard gregs answer to the succession question i am sure there r plans running rse after jz. jz can send a monthly video message to keep ramtha alive. with a full archive of ramtha sayings they can run the school and let ramtha 'say' whatever they need him to say. the dramatic recent event can come handy in a few years to manipulate through fear again. jz is hooked on her glory that she might not be able to retire as you said. jz might be in trouble to find a new home. not even opra wants her. living in hollywood were she diminish around all the stars? were she needs linda and selma as best friends? living in the boonies in south america were a major worships her? whatever there comes it will show soon.

Ockham
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Sun May 15, 2011 4:15 pm

Excellent observation, Ex. I have been told some of the RSE events consist of a large part of presentation that isn't live JZ/R at all, just staff teachers, or videos of Ramtha from last year, or portions takes from TV shows that were on History Channel. I guess if students are willing to pay a lot of money to watch pre-recorded Ramtha now, they will probably keep doing it.

Vanilla
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Location: Rome, Italy

Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Vanilla » Sun May 15, 2011 5:14 pm

Yes Ockham. The beginner retreats do not get to see Ramtha. Or maybe they don't want to spring Ramtha on beginners just yet, they want to wait-- to then show who this Ramtha is.

I spoke to someone --who believes-- at best-- JZ is channeling her higher self. I say we all are our higher selves.
So they sell these CD discussions when she was at her "higher self" many many years ago, edited and cut and made perfect. So this is what the new students expect to hear and see.

They play edited video of speeches that year or from a different country where Ramtha was coherent. Everyone is always taking notes.

Have you guys ever looked thru your notes? I would be curious as to what you guys have written down that made sense at the time but doesnt make any now. New Thread.

They do love the history channel and that Jesse Ventura show conspiracy theory. Also people who died and saw the light stories. And all the orbs they took that week. They play news stories that fit the agenda, like such and such said by last year, the dollar would be gone and we all would be rioting and looting.

Kensho
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Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Kensho » Sun May 15, 2011 5:43 pm

So there is yet another live stream posted for May 20th for $200.00 apparently about the world and "keeping the state". It seems that Judith has found another way to generate some cash flow...streams used to $50.00. There still hasn't been a posting for part 2 of the first stream that went on for 17 hours although that is what was promised. I suppose that there just isn't any way to make that workable. :roll:

On the subject of the inevitable demise of JZ/Ramtha, there was a cult leader who was very close to her in how he ran his cult following. Some of his followers continue to distribute recordings of his talks now many years after his suicide.

EMF link to that one here:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1013

I just hope that if she takes this route that she doesn't try to take anyone with her as he tried to.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

Ockham
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: event on sunday

Unread post by Ockham » Mon May 16, 2011 1:29 am

It must be that $200 is the sweet spot for the price the market will bear versus the number of students that will sign up. I wonder how high RSE will pump up the streaming cost. Several ramsters I know coughed up the $200 for the last Internet stream without batting an eyelash.

I've been wondering what became of the second half of the 17 hour talk-a-thon from March 2011. Based on the remarks about the event, it sounds like it may have been too difficult to edit the second half into something coherent and non-offensive.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the Worldwide Update Part II Maintaining the State presentation scheduled for May 20-21.

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