Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

There are those who don't believe this study was a credible work. What do you think? Why?
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David McCarthy
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Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:08 am

Before Dr. Basil Hiley's retirement, he was a well known physicist and professor at University of London's
Birkbeck College.
EMF
From Dr. Basil Hiley, March 11, 2013.

Let me explain how I got involved. I received an e-mail asking me if I would present a lecture at a conference "In Search of the Self: The role of Consciousness in the Construction of Reality", which was to be held in Yelm in 1996 and financed by a private benefactor.
My remit was to present the philosophical ideas of David Bohm who I had been working with for over thirty years at Birkbeck.
I had recently completed a book on the foundation of quantum mechanics co-authored with Bohm. Bohm died in 1993,
just as the proofs were being sent to the publishers. This book was a technical treatise and was to do with 'hard' physics.
Since the book was concerned with what the quantum formalism was telling us about reality, in the last chapter we briefly speculated about whether our ideas might have something interesting to say about consciousness.
This particular unexpected connection reflected Bohm's involvement in wider philosophical questions as discussed in his book
"Wholeness and the Implicate Order". Normally David Bohm, himself, would have been invited to speak.
The question that I struggled with at that time was, "Should I accept such an invitation to talk about a field that was not central to my research?" This was a question that I thought about for some time before making a decision.

The person who approached me, claimed to be a retired Professor of Religion. I cannot recall his name at this moment, but he was unknown to me then. I was sent a list of participants, none of whom were in my field, so I made some enquires and found that some were well known authorities in their fields. After some deliberation, I decided it would be an opportunity talk with and meet with these academics to see their reaction to our ideas. It would also give me an opportunity to present our ideas to a wider audience. At that stage I had no idea of who JZ Knight was.
I am not even sure her name was mentioned. I was told that my airfare and accommodation would be covered.

After some deliberation, I decided I would go, not in an official capacity representing Birkbeck, but in a personal capacity. One factor that swayed me finally to accept was, in fact, personal. I had a nephew whose kidneys had failed and was on dialysis awaiting a transplant.
He lived just outside Seattle. This trip would give me a chance to visit him and see for myself what sort of state he was in and report back to his mother. This meant that if the money for my airfare was not refunded, I would pay for it out of my own pocket and stay with my nephew and his family in Seattle. After all the flight arrangements had been made, I was sent some information about our benefactor,
JZ Knight claiming to be able to "channel". Immediately alarm bells started to ring, but I was on my way-- arrangements were in place.

Should I bale out or continue? I decided to continue. When I arrived at the conference I was horrified to see TV camera crews and the press there. This was not what I had been led to believe the conference was about. I had expected a typical academic meeting where we could discuss some deep questions and exchange ideas in a relaxed atmosphere. This was an entirely new experience for me. Some of the other participants were equally concerned, so we met in the hotel lounge at the end of the first day to discuss what we should do,
if anything. After some debate, a general consensus emerged, namely, that we should continue to exchange ideas in the meeting and try to treat it as the conference it was intended to be.

At no point was I asked to do 'scientific' tests on JZ Knight's claims. At no point did I make any public comment about her claims to be able to
'channel'. I do not know if others were involved in 'scientific testing'. I certainly took no part in any tests, scientific or otherwise.
I went there on the understanding that I was to present the ideas that Bohm and I had developed
under the heading of the 'Implicate Order', and how this notion might be of use in understanding consciousness. This has nothing to do with
'channeling'. I have no interest scientific or otherwise in the so-called phenomena of channeling. At the meeting I was asked if I would write up
my talk and I declined.

Please note there seems to be some discrepancy between the date of the conference, which I attended in February 1997 and the statement that
'scientific studies took place in 1996'. If the studies did take place in 1996, then I certainly was not involved.

Please also note that I retired from Birkbeck in September 1997.
Please let me stress once more, this visit had no official or other backing from Birkbeck, it was a personal decision to go.

Yours,

Basil Hiley
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Xylofone
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE

Unread post by Xylofone » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:06 am

Thanks for posting this important piece of the puzzle.

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Fighter
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE

Unread post by Fighter » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:08 pm

Wonderful, David. Thank you!

I would like to also talk about the scientific side as to specifically why JZK and Ramtha's DNA results are impossible. Dr. Basil explained wonderfully, now here is another valid reason to question these results.

Under JZ's "Gene Markers", you will see the following:
"R1B-QM242"
"I-M253"

To put it simply, "R1B" and "I" markers are only possible from males. That's right, they only come from the Y-Chromosome. So what does that mean?
a) JZK is a male.
b) Some other European Asian man got his DNA tested on behalf of JZK.
c) Same as b but with Ramtha as well.
d) It's entirely made up and the private labs were also made up.

For those lost, let me explain with science!

Humans have 23 chromosomes. Chromosomes are your DNA bundled up. In this case, we have 23 bundles that determine an entire human. The 23rd bundle is our Sex Chromosome. This set determines our sex. There are two types, and they are called "X" and "Y".
XX = Female
XY = Male

The reason why both females and males have at least one X is because all mothers have two X's. This means that a mother will pass down one X or the other X. This also means the father determines the sex of the child, and it's a 50/50 chance to pass down a X or a Y. If he passes down an X, it is a female child. If a Y, it is a male child.

Quick fact: This is why sometimes when people try and "revive" their dead female pet by cloning it, the female has a 50/50 chance to look entirely different, because the other X gene is activated.

Now to talk about Haplotypes and Haplogroups.
A Haplotype is basically a gene given to you by a single parent. One from your mom, and one from your dad. If you don't know what a gene is, it is something that determines a characteristic of a person. For instance, a gene determines if you have brown or blue eyes. There are tons of genes in each chromosome.

For Haplogroup, think of two different families. We'll call them Family A and Family B.
Family A and B have different parents and different immediate family. There seems to be no relation between them within a couple of generations. But, both families A and B share a R1B gene from a 10,000 year old ancestor. This is known as a Haplogroup.

Haplogroup DNA tests are done to understand where your family's history came from. For instance, if Europe, it's primarily R1b. For Asia, it is primarily R1a. I say primarily because these genes spread out but for simplicity's sake we can safely say that, for instance, R1b mainly stems from Europe.

To expand on Haplogroup DNA tests, there are two types. Male (yDNA) and Female (mtDNA).
For the male test, you have to either be a male or have your closest male relative do the test (father, brother, etc.) for the best results.
For the female test, anyone can do it because everyone has mitochondria. Mitochondria is only from a female parent.

The male test is the most common and preferred. This is because females tend to change their surnames in marriage, thus it gets confusing quickly in history. Another reason is that female mutation is much slower than the male's. This means that if you take the female test, your ancestor(s) could come back as somewhere between 10,000 to 100,000 years old and it would be impossible to know anything more specific than that.

This is all speaking in simplicities for everyone to understand and I hope I explained everything correctly enough for it to be understandable.
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Ockham
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:02 pm

The table of Judy Knight’s alleged genetic markers is fairly useless without context. I agree that having male haplogroup markers makes no sense as presumably Judy Knight is female and should lack a Y chromosome. There is a condition called CAIS (complete androgen insensitivity syndrome) that results from a defect in the RH gene. A person with CAIS is morphologically female due to the body’s inability to respond to androgens (male hormones), yet that person is actually a male despite having a female form. The catch here is that people with CAIS are infertile and apparently Judy Knight has produced offspring. I am not an expert, but I am not aware of another way to possess a Y chromosome needed to carry the markers cited in the table above and not be morphologically male.

Putting aside for the moment whether or not some miracle occurs to to suddenly give Judy Knight a Y chromosome to carry a genetic marker suggesting Asia Minor genetic lineage when she’s supposedly channelling Ramtha, there is no business for a Y chromosome to be in Knight’s cells at times when Knight is not acting as a channel. Why would Knight need a Y chromosome anyway in order to be a channel?

My personal opinion is that the DNA samples were contaminated by either inept or intentionally poor handling procedures at the time the samples were taken. Apparently three different labs had the same determination, so that suggests a problem early in the chain of handling the sample.

Another possible explanation is that Judy Knight’s whole DNA story is a fabrication put together by somebody who knows some, but not a lot of, genetics.

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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE

Unread post by Fighter » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:10 pm

Ockham,

Thank you for the additional information! I didn't bother going into other specifics on other ways how this could be possible because it gets quite complicated and then quite rare of it being possible even then. I suppose you could categorize it back to my "a) JZK is a male."

I agree with your personal opinion, especially since the person who did it was a fraudulent chiropractor :roll:
I've had some experience with DNA, enough to understand how easy it gets contaminated!

If I had a guess on it I'd say the second one you mentioned, that she paid someone to research gene markers for Europe/central Asia or someone who knew a little about gene markers and used that information to create her "spiffy-looking" picture. Today, it's really easy to learn about it via Google. Not sure of back when the DNA test was published. And of course, the most you can get about the "private labs" are what state they were located.

Xylofone
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

Unread post by Xylofone » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:45 am

Very interesting! It's refreshing to see information from someone who understands these tests to notice and point out these important details. This DNA test thing has been the source of "proof" for so long, it's now clear as day (or should be) that it is a fraud.

Besides, doesn't "Ramtha" just control her body from behind her brain? He doesn't enter her body, why in the world would he change her DNA if he's only accessing her brain? It must be that which is called parlor tricks, indeed, as it were... ha ha ha

If she did have CAIS, she could have used that to her advantage to get that Y chromosome in the results, but then that would assume the tests were done in the first place. I don't think there were any tests, I think it was all made up and fabricated from scratch using real DNA results as a template. I think she paid her graphic designer to create a lab result form and they plugged in the information, making sure to make SOME of the results different on the second copy so it looked like there were two people tested. All the while, she made the mistake of not knowing some of those results she copied to her own test results form were only possible for males. Oops!

I don't think JZ is androgen insensitive, either. If you look at her over the last 20 years, it's very apparent that she's become extremely masculine in a way that would only happen to a female taking testosterone. Her jawline squared off like a man's, her neck got fuller (even when she isn't fat) and her fat distribution changed to that of a man's (belly, hips - these are visible in photos and in person) and you can see where the fat is distributed in a male pattern even more when she's heavier. Her voice is deeper, too, and it's not a smoker's voice it's thicker vocal cords.

Wouldn't it be nice if someone had gathered her spit/snot from the stage when she spat at Ladystar and had it tested? Maybe someone in the near future could get her DNA from a "close encounter" and test it so we could see what's up.

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Fighter
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

Unread post by Fighter » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:07 pm

Xylofone,

Maybe if she takes enough testosterone, "Ramtha" will finally stop sitting and animating like a female would. :lol:

Every time I've watched "Ramtha", he sits in ways that would be uncomfortable for a male (sure, easy excuse to say "he" is simply doing what is most comfortable for her body)

But then, you see all sorts of feminine animations, as if Ramtha is gay, but "he" can't be, he's homophobic! Maybe "he" should come out of the closet... :roll:

Great observations! Now I have to go and observe.

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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:49 pm

Another possible explanation is that Judy Knight’s whole DNA story is a fabrication put together by somebody who knows some, but not a lot of, genetics.
Hi Okham! Great to see you out and about!!!

I think you may have hit it on the head. Looking at it realistically, JZ is nothing more then a storyteller. She has been telling stories all her life. She simply found a way to have a captive audience. She needs the audience, she is nothing without it. When one takes her stories and compares them to the great myths and legends of the ages, it is like comparing fools gold to gold.

Her myth will not survive her. Probably one of the reasons for her putting the lid on the COP's for 21 years after her death. The other may be to be able to give the whole go-go show some value she would be able to tap into in her old (read older) age. There should be no surprise about her tales.

While she is a story teller, there are no "morals", there is no meaning (except for her bank account), there is no value. Unless of course one gets value in studying a pathological liar.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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David McCarthy
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:46 pm

journeythroughramthaland.
Hi Okham! Great to see you out and about!!!
Yep.....it certainly brightened my day when I read Okham's post... :-)
welcome back Okham :idea:

For the record..
Screenshot - RSE DVD for sale "In Search of Self' - 1997 conference at RSE. $44.95

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But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Xylofone
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Re: Dr. Basil Hiley about his attendance 1997 conference at RSE - Took no part in any tests, scientific or other

Unread post by Xylofone » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:38 am

Fighter wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:07 pm
Xylofone,

Maybe if she takes enough testosterone, "Ramtha" will finally stop sitting and animating like a female would. :lol:

Every time I've watched "Ramtha", he sits in ways that would be uncomfortable for a male
You mean the way Ramtha exaggeratedly manspreads on the throne more than any man in history? lol maybe JZ wanted to be a dude and this is her way of living out multiple fantasies: being a dude, lording over peasants, collecting millions of dollars, and play acting Jesus.

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