Danielle Graham's Studies

There are those who don't believe this study was a credible work. What do you think? Why?
Wakeup-Call
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Washington

Danielle Graham's Studies

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:01 am

This seemed to be the closest thread to post this question...

What about Danielle Graham's so-called studies? She babbles so fast and with such a condescending attitude, I never thought anyone had a chance to ask an intelligent question of her.

The last Blue College event I attended a couple years ago she showed some graphs and was all twitterpated because she said it showed that Ramtha had stopped or reversed time.

Now, I work with graphs all the time professionally and couldn't follow her explanation. Yet, the whole presentation was really that she was having to "dumb it down" for us anyway and we should just trust her and Ramtha.

It seems like what she's getting recognized for in the scientfic community is measurements of "collective consciousness" - which wouldn't be unique to RSE. Yet she shares her findings as though she's "proving" Ramtha's powers.

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:12 am

I can't find where I had made a post about DG before, but here is the interview I found laughable ( of course, in hind sight).
Also, I could never quite "get" what she was endeavoring to accomplish. It was all gibberish to me
(and I do have a college education).
To me, this is very typical of any Ramster.
"Send me money to live off of, and I will show you how much Ramtha exists by NOT using modern scientific methods."
it was actually the product of many, many years of training and discipline to finally accept instantaneous change. My focus on research came from the disappointment of not having seen previous RSE-based scientific research really reflect the heart of the teachings. The reason became obvious to me: these scientists didn?t do the disciplines to gain their own experiences. They didn?t integrate or attempt to integrate this incredible knowledge into their lives, so how could their research reflect an understanding that they themselves have not experienced?
Western society generally, and science specifically, trains scientists to see the world as externalized from themselves. By contrast, we are taught that we ARE our environment. The distinction is HUGE when it comes to viewing the world as well as viewing simple research data.

I have been well trained to understand that I am very much a part of my environment. Therefore the analysis and the reporting of this data reflects my training. I have been trained to think this way by Ramtha?
This last quote I found totally both appalling and revealing of how brainwashing actually works.
You?ve got to remember that some of those things that I chose not to matter were a product of the fact that I was so ignorant as far as the traditional training of the scientists. I didn?t know that I wasn?t supposed to pay attention to them.
Well, there is an aspect of compassion, too. How could they know what I knew?
...good example of the superiority of the group.
I accepted that the model that I have learned from Ramtha? is my model
classic induction.
As I was confronting the reality that how I was trained to think at Ramtha?'s School of Enlightenment, Western science didn?t think that way.
huge red flag.....







INTERVIEW WITH DANIELLE GRAHAM
Executive Director,
NW Frontier Research Institute
September 28, 2006
by Louise SaintOnge, MastersConnection, LLC
Transcribed by Bertha Rainen
MC: In less than a year you have taken a dream from concept to peer-reviewed published material, presentations at major scientific conferences,
to founding the NW Frontier Research Institute, a non-profit global research organization, to being invited to China. The story of how you began this amazing journey into the world of science is so interesting. Can you give us
a brief summary of when and how that happened, what your source of inspiration was?

Danielle: Well, saying that in less than a year this occurred is like saying to the professional musician that after twenty years of practice that one day they were an overnight success. And that is not really the case, you know. The fact is that I became a student of Ramtha?'s School of Enlightenment in 1988, and I wrestled for a good part of fifteen-sixteen years to understand what it was my teacher was trying to teach me, and wrestling with myself during disciplines and coming to terms with this extraordinary knowledge that I have been given. At a certain point, I realized that I had a really great change of life approaching with my children coming of age and moving on with their lives. I recognized that that was an opportune time for me to also review my life and use that energy to do something wonderful.

It was about the time when JZ made her remarkable healing. She started talking about her understanding of the neurons and we began the Neighborhood WalkSM It clicked for me. I?d love to say that it was overnight, but it was actually the product of many, many years of training and discipline to finally accept instantaneous change. My focus on research came from the disappointment of not having seen previous RSE-based scientific research really reflect the heart of the teachings. The reason became obvious to me: these scientists didn?t do the disciplines to gain their own experiences. They didn?t integrate or attempt to integrate this incredible knowledge into their lives, so how could their research reflect an understanding that they themselves have not experienced? I made the choice then, to set out on a journey to do it myself.

So the timeline that you speak of really is the timeline between the invitation by JZ, via Debbie Christie, to collect the data, and then putting myself through the rigorous process of understanding the data, accepting the invitation to publish the data, getting the abstract accepted, the first draft accepted, going through this incredible peer-review process and then having the paper accepted, in less than a year!
Design credit:
Shelley Lucus

MC: You made this presentation to Blue College in 2006, and there you really made it clear how unique the science that we are doing here is, in the world of science. For those who haven?t seen your presentation or those who would like a review, give us a summary of the research and its uniqueness compared to what we may confuse it with in the world of science we may be more familiar with.

Danielle: What we did is simply set up a bunch of instruments in the arena during the 2005 BC event and recorded the various kinds of data: Light data, geomagnetic data, electromagnetic data and occasionally force-plate data, and we observed the changing values while we collected. There was never any intent to intentionally affect the instruments. For example, when someone sat down on the force plate, the intent wasn?t to directly affect gravity. They were just sitting on the plate doing their discipline.

MC: I just want to stop you for a moment to give a brief definition of what this force plate is for people who might not know what that is.

Danielle: The force plate is a scientific sensor, and basically what it tracks is the variances in mass compared to a constant acceleration towards the center of the Earth, which we call gravity. How fast we are accelerating towards the center of the Earth determines our weight.

So, while they sat on the force plate doing their discipline, I watched the variances in the data that was being collected and I noticed that as the person went into certain stages of the disciplines, the data stream changed and correlated exactly with what the person was doing. That is significant to me. Now, for someone that has not studied or experienced the disciplines, they are not going to see it has a correlate to anything because how would they know what the changes correlate to?

MC: They just see that it changes.

Danielle: Yes, they just see some changes and, you know, it must be the wind; maybe we had an earthquake or something. It?s got to be something else out there. All of those arguments are valid in a reductionistic world, but while collecting this early experimental data, these correlating changes meant something to me. It gave me reason to keep collecting data and to keep testing that data against other variables so that I could see if it was true over a multiple of different circumstances.

MC: So what is it, again, the uniqueness of it as compared to other scientific research studies that we may be more familiar with? I know you talked about how people will try to put it into a parapsychological context, this whole human body, environment interface.

Danielle: The uniqueness is the respective training and perspectives from which we are viewing our world as researchers. Western society generally, and science specifically, trains scientists to see the world as externalized from themselves. By contrast, we are taught that we ARE our environment. The distinction is HUGE when it comes to viewing the world as well as viewing simple research data.

I have been well trained to understand that I am very much a part of my environment. Therefore the analysis and the reporting of this data reflects my training. I have been trained to think this way by Ramtha?, and science does not yet operate from this fundamental understanding.

My observation about the other kinds of relational research going on is that none of the current scientists approach their research from the perspective that I have chosen, to show and discuss this experimental data. Psychic research focuses on the intentional manipulation of an item, an object or a field. That's not what our research data is demonstrating. We weren?t intentionally trying to affect the geomagnetic field or the gravitational field. These environmental fluctuations were by-products of our activities collectively at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment which is very consistent with Ramtha?'s teaching.

MC: So you have taken Ramtha?'s teachings deep into your life with a vigor and passion that is truly inspiring and a glorious tribute to the Great Work. You are not a scientist, yet you have accomplished the extraordinary in a field that is laden with strict protocols, rules and a culture that is conservative at best. What are some of those typical protocols and how were you able to bypass them? Really, some of your stories are about the magic that occurred.

Danielle: Well, I am trained at Ramtha?'s School of Enlightenment to hold a focus, and what I have come to understand is that if I am truly focused on something that doesn?t already exist, and it is not my experience yet, then that experience has to come from somewhere, and the environment from which the new comes is chaos. It is the transformation of the old into the new reality. So in my training I have learned to hold a focus and that if it is outside of what I already know, then chaos will ensue. And holding that focus in the midst of that chaos, is the process by which matter reorganizes itself.

So what I did is I held the focus of the publication of this paper. Then I worked very hard at writing it to its rigor, matching the standards of what was required by the organization that I was writing the paper for, and held the focus and held the focus, and worked at it, and rewrote the paper, and held the focus and held the focus. And many, many steps along the way, I should have just quit, you know. No, it is rejected. Well, you are supposed to stop. No, the data is not rigorous. No, you are supposed to stop. Well, I didn?t. And then voila, I received the email that it had been accepted for publication.

MC: Well, the point that it was accepted, that whole story is interesting unto itself.

Danielle: Well, for me the bottom line is not to pay attention to what is going on in the environment, to keep holding the focus. It doesn?t matter if they say yes or no. That was a very great lesson for me, not to let how it appears in the world override the picture in my own mind. So it didn?t matter what was going on.

MC: What are some of the things that appeared that you chose not to let it matter what was going on?

Danielle: You?ve got to remember that some of those things that I chose not to matter were a product of the fact that I was so ignorant as far as the traditional training of the scientists. I didn?t know that I wasn?t supposed to pay attention to them. I didn?t know that when the American Institute of Physics says, ?No,? that that means no. I just figured it just means keep going, you know. That possibility had not been trained out of me by the scientific process, the humiliating process that science students are put through. I call it a hazing.

MC: It?s a hazing, but it is also the potential devastation of creativity.

Danielle: Right, and I don?t even want to judge that process. You get your undergraduate degree and get your Ph.D., and then you do your post-grad work and then maybe after you have done all this and you have done some more years of research, then maybe you can do some original research. That is pretty much the way one is trained.

MC: A kind of right of passage.

Danielle: And then you are a scientist, you know. I didn?t go that way. That was not how I was trained. I used the academic training I was involved in to learn how to actually publish a paper.

MC: Yes, but your advisors were not able to go where you were able to go because they haven?t had the training that you have had- the training of the mind. You have been bold enough and strong enough that even though those who are the scientists, those who follow a rigorous protocol, could not see your vision and your passion and wanted to steer you in a certain way of doing things, you chose to continue with your focus against so many odds, and that is truly inspiring.

Danielle: Well, there is an aspect of compassion, too. How could they know what I knew? Now, when I first began in the academic environment, I didn?t know what they knew or didn?t know. I only knew what I knew. The more I insisted on utilizing what I knew, the greater the divide I saw between what I knew and what my professors knew. But that is not a good or a bad thing. That is just how they understand the world, and I understand the world differently. Yes, it is very difficult to stand up and live your truth in a world that has not been trained in this wonderful knowledge that I have learned at the Ramtha? School. I did not buckle and say, ?Oh, you are right. What I have learned for the last twenty years is not correct. It?s not the traditional scientific way so what I know is not valid?? I didn?t accept that.

MC: Beautiful.

Danielle: I accepted that the model that I have learned from Ramtha? is my model, and if that is true then I would need to do what I have been taught to do, which is hold my focus and make it through the chaos. It was very difficult -- and so what if it is difficult?

MC: You are the visionary and the founder of the NW Frontier Research Institute, which has now become an official non-profit research organization. I know it has taken an enormous amount of energy and effort to accomplish this. How did that come together and who are the people involved?

Danielle: The organization was actually a blessing from the contentious environment that I faced academically. Because my academic sponsors were not willing to support me through the publication of my paper, I was still obliged to have my paper be affiliated with some organization. If I wasn?t affiliated academically, and I certainly wasn?t affiliated industrially, then my options were very narrow.

So my option was to be affiliated though a private research institute. I had to learn what that really meant ? to create a non-profit corporation. I had to understand who I would be in the midst of that organization. Basically, I was having to stop being an independent, autonomous do-whatever-I-want-whenever-I-want researcher, and I had to become an individual who was responsible to a governance Board. It took me a long time to be willing to do that. But when it finally came down to it, either I was done with the research because I was not willing to give up who and what I was, or I was willing to change and become part of something greater than me, and create something that was greater than me. Thus, I created the NW Frontier Research Institute.

To do that, I had to create a Board of Directors. I chose from the people I knew that had great passion and love for this research, that were great supporters, both in terms of time and energy as well as scientific advisory. I chose people that just loved what the research was about and loved the Great Work.

We are all students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Some of them are teachers at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Some of them are business people. Some of them are parents. One of the most extraordinary people that came to the table was a woman in the school who has been directing the governance of non-profit institutes for thirty years. She brings a level of expertise to help all of us make this an undeniably accountable and legitimate organization.

MC: And you have said, too, again, how much magic there has been around the way that the group has come together and the unique skills that each one brings. You have also talked about how interesting meetings are..

Danielle: Being a Board member of a non-profit organization means that you are not getting paid. Everybody who comes together to be on this Board is not there because they are being paid. They are there because they want to be, so they bring their strength of character, their strength of wisdom. They bring their knowledge to the Board. So you?ve got a dozen powerful gods bringing their own ideas, and when we get together in working groups, there?s contention. There?s chaos. I've observed this in multiple meetings and work sessions and realized that the magic is that the contention happens, the chaos ensues; there are ideas and emotions flying everywhere. Then all of a sudden, magically out of that, the end result appears. I have come to understand that that is how gods get together and create.

MC: Greater than one would have thought.

Danielle: It is just magic.

MC: Just as you are an inspiration to the Board, they also inspire you and that is the mutual exponential magic that occurs. You have drawn into your life an array of passionate, wise and intense people.

Danielle: I am so inspired by such a passionate group of people who so willingly give so much. That is an inspiration to me.

MC: And this has been continuous and ongoing even before the Board was officially formed. That is, again, the greater than

Danielle: People send me checks in the mail with notes saying, ?I love what you are doing.? They send me beautiful cards, you know,"You inspire me." "You've helped me create for myself.? I can?t even go into town or go into the post office or go into the grocery store without somebody stopping and wanting to talk about the research. Isn?t that wonderful that we are creating dynamically in the world that is really a part of all of us because we are part of the data?

MC: What, then is the mission of the NW Frontier Research Institute?

Danielle: Let me get the brochure. Let me read it to you:
?The mission of the NW Frontier Research Institute is to actualize the vision, which is to
simply reveal and further discover the nature of the fundamental human environment
interface, to generate and disseminate groundbreaking research data, establish a
world-class research facility, and to develop our global alliances with researchers and
philanthropists, institutions and organizations.?

Danielle: Our mission is actually to work in the world creating more research and working with other researchers that support the fundamental aspects of what it is we have learned at the Ramtha School of Enlightenment, that we are our environment. We are the creators. How that is supported scientifically is the mission of NW Frontier Research Institute. We are not teachers. We don?t teach Ramtha?'s models. We don?t disseminate the teachings of the school. What we do is design and develop research data that supports what it is we have come to understand.

MC: Beautiful. What is your long vision? What is your vision into the future, Danielle, not the NW Frontier Research Institute, which you are rather inextricably combined with? You have talked about what you envision in five hundred years from now. You know, you really do think in the future, just as we are taught. You are an example of that.

Danielle: How I understand it for myself is this: that if I have a vision, let?s say for instance that the foundation of all of science is Ramtha?'s model, then I have to accept that that is not my current experience. If that is not my current experience and I create my reality, then I am the one that has to change to see that reality materialize. I am the one that goes through the process of becoming something different. When what is present in front of me is that the foundation of all science is Ramtha?'s model, and that is my environment, then I will have changed to experience that dream.

MC: So beautiful. What is your greatest challenge?

Danielle: I think my greatest challenge is perhaps no different than most people?s greatest challenge, and that is to press myself every moment outside of my comfort zone; to press myself outside of acceptance and to press myself into the unknown. To do this I must challenge my image. I am inspired by Ramtha?, what he said many years ago -- he said he wrestled with his image until the very moment he left. So that one point that was horrifying to have to deal with at first has kind of reformed into - "this is how it is". Every time I sit and do my cards, or every time I do any discipline to train myself to keep doing the Great Work, I have to confront this nasty thing called my image. The greatest challenge is to want to do that again and again and again and again.

MC: The current exciting news after all of this is your invitation to China. What is the story behind this? -- remarkable.

Danielle: As I was confronting the reality that how I was trained to think at Ramtha?'s School of Enlightenment, Western science didn?t think that way. The horrifying realization that my research wasn?t even in the realm of possibility in Western science was very discouraging for me. Then I had runners and my runners were that this type of research, based on the researcher themselves exploring the human potential, had been ongoing in China for quite some time.

MC: How did you find out about that?

Danielle: Through a book called China?s Super Psychics. Actually, it was first introduced when James Flick read from Eric Davis? Teleportation Physics Study during the Blue College Event in 2005, in which I was also recording the original data. He read a section from Dr. Eric Davis? paper.

MC: Who eventually gave a talk at the School.

Danielle: Right. James read parts of Eric Davis' paper that talked about the teleportation of these Chinese psychics. Later, when I was faced with being asked to reduce the data in such a way that I knew would destroy the essence of that Blue College data, and was very discouraged, is when the Chinese Super Psychics book came my way. I began to read about how that research was actually established in China through a very famous rocket scientist who had trained and spent a whole career of developing technology here in the United States and how, when he was deported to China during the McCarthy Era, China had him pretty much reorganize China?s entire science. At some point, he was given an audience with these psychics. After watching demonstrations of teleportation, he stated then "if this is true, everything we understand in science is wrong".

MC: What is his name? And the special name given to these super psychics?

Danielle: The scientist?s name is Dr. Tsien Hsue-shen. He is a very famous man.

In China, these psychics are known as EHFs or Exceptional Human Functions. These Exceptional Human Functions develop their minds just as we do - through discipline. They are honored and respected. They are considered national treasures. It becomes their job to do what they do. I was frequency specific with these people, that they would base all of their research on the discipline of developing human ability. I was deeply inspired that somewhere on the planet, that someone was doing research that was relational to my own.

Several RSE students made unsuccessful attempts at trying to find these researchers on my behalf. It was discouraging. So it would be the invitation to our third conference by a theoretical physicist at Princeton. It was the 25th Anniversary meeting of the Society of Scientific Exploration. They had invited us to present our RSE data. They had also invited one of these EHF scientists to attend this conference also. I was like oh, my gosh.

MC: It?s beautiful.

Danielle: Beautiful, beautiful moment. So I asked immediately for contact information but learned he would not be attending. We initiated introductions and I started sharing my research and how I would very much love to talk with them. He invited me to Beijing. I knew that RSE had an event scheduled in Hong Kong in November so I asked him if November would be a good time. He said that would be a very good time. So we began the process of getting ready to do this trip to China. In the meantime, we have opened quite a communication between their researchers and our researchers, me. Yeah, it?s just me at this point, isn?t it? They are very excited about us coming over.

The other thing that I think would be of interest to your readers is that in China there are seven hundred advanced psychics, advanced EHFs that work in the labs generating rigorous science data. Each psychic is assigned their own researcher. So there are seven hundred psychics doing research with seven hundred scientists.

MC: Extraordinary.

Danielle: And they have been doing this for thirty years. Can you imagine the incredible data that they have collected that has not been available to us; that somehow, someway, they found my simple little paper and my simple attempt to model our ambient fields as a by-product of developing mind to be of enough interest to have invited me over to speak with them?

MC: This truly is extraordinary, Danielle. What do you think you will be doing there? What is the agenda?

Danielle: Well, for me just to be able to speak with scientists that are working in a parallel research intent as I. I am so hungry for that after having suffered the slings and arrows of Western science. I think it is important to note that one of the things we have learned about the Chinese researchers that is similar to one of the very important principles for the NWFRI Board of Directors: Everyone on the NWFRI Board of Directors has to do the experimental work, so they can truly support our research from a place of experience, not just philosophy. In China, all of their scientists have to do EHF disciplines. They are required to develop their mind and the EHFs are required to take science courses, so that collaboratively they work together, understanding each other better, by studying what each other does.

We have read an interview with one of the psychics who talks about her life. She talks about how hard it is to make time to do her disciplines being a Mom and doing all of her responsibilities. Here is this woman with advanced teleportation skills, wrestling with similar issues that we wrestle with here. But unlike here, in China, it is her job. So after she sends her kids to school and makes breakfast and does the laundry and sweeps the floor, you know, her job is to develop her mind and to do what it is she is asked to do.

MC: So when you just said five weeks away, I was really thrown off because that is amazing.

Danielle: It?s upon us.

MC: As a non-profit organization you must rely on the focus of your incredible mind and the generous support of people, and you will be seeking funding through grants and such as time goes on, as the non-profit Institute becomes, I would say, more mature. But right now you need financial support for the China trip, and we, the RSE community, can help you to realize that goal. Again, it is something that benefits all of us. I would love to see us all gather together to support you in any way that we can to do that.

Danielle: We want to generate $25,000 for this trip. We have two translators and one documenter, an entourage of four. We will be in China for 2 weeks on this first trip.

The beautiful thing about all of this research is that it couldn?t have happened without everybody anyway. The data itself was collected from the student body and the student body has supported the research to get it out into the world. That support has been just extraordinary. Being a non-profit research organization also gives everyone the satisfaction of a mutual reward, meaning that as they economically support the research, they get to receive benefits from that in tax deductions, etc. We are just about to take that next step to be prepared to receive sponsorships from outside the community in terms of grants and corporate sponsorships. But at this time, during our little first year that we are taking our research out into the world, it is being locally supported and locally sponsored.

We have created beautiful brochures about the China trip and sponsorship support that will be available for people to pick up at the RSE during our follow-up events. It includes a coupon that they can send in their love and their sponsorship.

MC: We are really happy to have the MastersConnection be a voice for you out there in the RSE international. How can people contribute?

Danielle: Donations can be mailed to NW Frontier Research Institute at P.O. Box 2171, Yelm, Washington 98597. They can also make payments through PayPal, livingsys@ywave.com. If they need to make other kinds of arrangements- if someone is out of the country and they need to make a direct deposit into the account, they need to call me at 360-458-9446 and arrange that.

MC: Whether it is $5 or $5,000 or $10,000, $50,000, or whatever it is- it all is a wonderful gift.

Danielle: Right. And the other thing to remember is that whatever is not used for the trip goes into the general operating fund that supports the continuing mission of our research.

MC: ?Building a world class research facility, for example.

Danielle: Yes!

MC: I am so excited about your trip and can?t wait till you come back. Will we be able to interview you then so you can tell us about it?

Danielle: Yes.

MC: Yes? Wonderful. Is there anything you would like to say that I haven?t asked you?

Danielle: I am very excited by what these researchers and what these people who have developed their skills have to offer us as students and how they can help us. As much knowledge as I have been given, as much as I have learned, as many years as I have dedicated of my life, I am not approaching this trip thinking I have got something to teach them, but understanding that what they have achieved and accomplished, that I get to benefit from.

So I am approaching this very humbly, but with great anticipation for what it can contribute to myself personally, to our organization generally, and to the RSE student body on an international level. I think that there are many gifts in China and that as the Marco Polo of RSE science, I hope to bring back more than just a few spices.

MC: Thankyou. Blessings on your journey.

To Contact Danielle Graham:
NW Frontier Research Institute
14604 93rd Ave. SE - PO Box 2171 - Yelm, WA 98597 Email Here

Wakeup-Call
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Washington

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:45 pm

Thank you, Tree.

Interesting interview. It seems to boil down to the fact that it took Danielle 15 years to finally find a way into the "in" crowd at RSE. Food Storage didn't seem to be it.

I wonder how long before she is appointed a teacher at RSE to backup Mike Wright on the science presentations.

User avatar
G2G
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:09 am
Location: Planet Earth

Unread post by G2G » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:59 pm

Danielle states: "We are part of our environment."

This is a news breakthrough to her? Reading her interview again demonstrated to me just how immersed she is in the RSE "environment" - what thoughts are her own and what thoughts are jzrk's? It's difficult reading even after a year out - seeing the words, "what I have learned from Ramtha" -

In my experience, I learned to never surrender my critical thinking even for moment, to anyone. 8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

Whatchamacallit
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:31 pm

I believe the following is accurate and true, so someone correct me if I'm wrong and I'll gladly retract the statement.

Danielle's college work was at the level of her first two years - the associate degree level. With ALL due respect to ANY level of college education, I personally wouldn't equate the same level of respect toward someone "doing research" at the Associate Degree level, vs. the Master's or Doctorate Degree level. They do not compare, and each is earned for a reason.

The fact that she is looking through rose colored glasses called "Ramtha's Model of Science", puts the foundation of her "science" on shaky ground to say the least. That foundation (theory) has NOT been proven valid, so what does that say of any results she claims ? (a rhetorical question)

Now, I am really off to the grocey store!

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:28 pm

There was an article in the Evergreen State College campus magazine that mentioned that Danielle had not yet achieved her AA degree, but that her current studies pur her on track for her 4 year degree.
I took offense to her as well because she was alluding to working on her Master's degree (maybe she was speaking tongue in cheek)
yet she hadn't even acheieved her 4 year degree.
I am sure by now, she has her 4 yr degree (thanks to all the contributions by RSE students to her Frontier Research Institute blah blah blah).
And I couldn't agree with you more Whatcha...perfect grooming for a Mike Wright back up.
But eh gad, she is more superscillious than HE is!!! :roll: :roll:
I woulnd't give her the time of day. Princess of narcissism.

Wakeup-Call
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Washington

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:08 am

Supercilious - wonderful word! "haughtily disdainful" - So very true.

Thanks for the info on her lack of having even a 2-year degree when she conducted her study.

I find it interesting that even though her study went before "peer review" that none of the "peer review" comments have been shared. Oh wait! Look what I just found online!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1609629982

I love this comment at 10:20
"You need to have an experiment that isn't open to such criticism"
And Danielle interrupts him to tell him that she knows what she knows and she has world-class advisors and blah-blah-blah. I doubt she cleaned up her experiment based on the very SPECIFIC feedback she gets so that her results could not be explained away.

Notice how patient, kind and helpful the reviewers are and how obnoxious and condescending Danielle is.

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:07 pm

Notice how patient, kind and helpful the reviewers are and how obnoxious and condescending Danielle is.
I whole heartedly agree.

So, can she now boast, it did, in fact, go up for peer review??
uh..so what. they shot it down. you became arrogant because of your "teacher".
pfft.

world reknown scientific study my a$$.

User avatar
G2G
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:09 am
Location: Planet Earth

Unread post by G2G » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:43 pm

I REALLY missed something in her credentials! I thought she was working on her PhD!!! Oh sheesh. Not dismissing any form of higher education; however, working on a PhD and having your work peer-reviewed at that level is an entirely different "ballgame." I definitely must read her interview linked above! So her expertise is bascially through her "teacher" Ramtha? How is it she came to be invited by the Chinese? (Oh yeah, she "created" it with crayolas and an index card).

Judith's glossies are laughable in "proving" she is "channelling" anything. For the lay-non-medical person, it might appear impressive. I still scratch my head over how many MD's I'd met at events. The studies do not prove there even is a Ramtha. They only prove that Judith believes there is, or her acting-classes and other abilities ((one can be taught to fake a lie-detector response and have it appear legit) - the military does just this in many cases for obvious reasons)) are in full gear. And she is offering holdings for public sale? So she is now for lack of a better word, "selling Ramtha?" Oh, blasphemous!!!! <sarcasm>

On to Danielle's interview.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

Wakeup-Call
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Washington

Correlation and Causation

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:33 am

In the scientific/mathematical world of statistics (a realm that Ramtha apparently hasn't spent any time in, nor have his teachers), experts say "correlation does not imply causation."

See Danielle's implication (quoted below, very early in the interview) that correlation does imply causation...that the C&E discipline/meditation is causing the correlation she found.

This is appalling for said "scientist." Seriously. And so few people reading the interview would catch it. I only did on a 2nd read.

[quote="Tree"]

Danielle: So, while they sat on the force plate doing their discipline, I watched the variances in the data that was being collected and I noticed that as the person went into certain stages of the disciplines, the data stream changed and correlated exactly with what the person was doing. That is significant to me. Now, for someone that has not studied or experienced the disciplines, they are not going to see it has a correlate to anything because how would they know what the changes correlate to?

MC: They just see that it changes.

Danielle: Yes, they just see some changes and, you know, it must be the wind; maybe we had an earthquake or something. It?s got to be something else out there. All of those arguments are valid in a reductionistic world, but while collecting this early experimental data, these correlating changes meant something to me. It gave me reason to keep collecting data and to keep testing that data against other variables so that I could see if it was true over a multiple of different circumstances.
/quote]

Let's go to Texas A&M's statistics department for a little Correlation/Causation lesson 101...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.stat.tamu.edu/stat30x/notes/node42.html

Correlation and Causation

We must be very careful in interpreting correlation coefficients. Just because two variables are highly correlated does not mean that one causes the other. In statistical terms, we say that correlation does not imply causation. There are many good examples of correlation which are nonsensical when interpreted in terms of causation. (you hear that, Danielle - "nonsensical")

a. Ice cream sales and the number of shark attacks on swimmers are correlated.
b. Skirt lengths and stock prices are highly correlated (as stock prices go up, skirt lengths get shorter).
c. The number of cavities in elementary school children and vocabulary size have a strong positive correlation.

Three relationships which can be taken (or mistaken) for causation are:

1. Causation: Changes in X cause changes in Y. For example, football weekends cause heavier traffic, more food sales, etc.
2. Common response: Both X and Y respond to changes in some unobserved variable. All three of our examples are examples of common response.
a. Ice cream sales and shark attacks both increase during summer.
b. Skirt lengths and stock prices are both controlled by the general attitude of the country, liberal or conservative.
c. The number of cavities and children's vocabulary are both related to a child's age.
3. Confounding: The effect of X on Y is hopelessly mixed up with the effects of other explanatory variables on y. (Note - this option is what Danielle dismisses out of hand as what the stupid scientific schlubs would say about her experiment without the benefit of 20 years of Ramtha brainwashing, I mean teachings)
For example, if we are studying the effects of Tylenol on reducing pain, and we give a group of pain-sufferers Tylenol and record how much their pain is reduced, we are confounding the effect of giving them Tylenol with giving them any pill. Many people report a reduction in pain by simply being given a sugar pill with no medication in it at all, this is called the placebo effect. To establish causation, a designed experiment must be run.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Danielle will never bring this up to Ramsters or address it here, much less in her experiments. She'll just show up at more and more consciousness conferences around the world as a junk science presenter, claiming no one has challenged her results, which of course means that what she's presenting is true. (Oops, there we go again with the faulty reasoning...)

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:41 pm

the data stream changed and correlated exactly with what the person was doing.
um....so going back to the RSE "tenents"...if you are "analogically BEING" during the supposed discipline,
how would you know what you are doing? much less Danielle, who thinks she knows what you
are doing??? :shock:
so let me get this straight, Danielle is now able to be in your head/mind and KNOW what you are doing while
YOU are being anaogical :roll: AND Then point out that the correlations are similar...

wow...stupendous

Wakeup-Call
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Washington

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:59 pm

To clarify for those unfamiliar with the C&E discipline, which is what Danielle was testing...

Supposedly, during C&E, a person is working to push energy from the "1st seal" to the "7th seal" - in other words, from one's sex organs up to the top of the head. As trained, there is no set amount of times to breathe to make this happen. And even once a person gets the energy moved up to certain levels, you have to periodically breathe the technique again to keep the energy from falling back down. How fast and how far a person moves the energy is based on their will, focus, intent and correct form during the exercise.

To Tree's point....there is no outward sign to indicate where a person has moved the energy. Therefore, how could Danielle correlate what she saw with "oh, Greg's energy is at the 4th seal now!" Or "oh, there he is, he's got it all the way up to his brain now!" Of course, some people developed their own unique quirks - hands shaking from the energy once they thought it hit the 4th seal, or perhaps Greg was doing his "wow, I'm blissing out here" look so Danielle knew he was at the 7th seal.

The point is that she cannot, not scientifically. That's why she has to go around saying "I know what I know" but can't really prove it. Ok, then say you're a philosopher rather than a scientist.

Pretty interesting that she had to form a non-profit research institute to get her paper peer-reviewed because her own college wouldn't back her! A college that doesn't back their student's research - they must have had their concerns about the quality of the work.

joe sz
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:07 am

[I think that there are many gifts in China and that as the Marco Polo of RSE science, I hope to bring back more than just a few spices.
quote]

This self-aggrandizement is beyond pitiful. It is embarrassingly so. She will take on China as a scientist? Does anyone know what "treasures" of hierophantine learning she brought back? Did she ever go?

Thanks, Tree, for posting the interview.
More evidence that too many years with RSE can make one into an intellectual cripple.

Happily, the brain is a mutable organ and can recover with healthy excercise.

[/quote]

Tree
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by Tree » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:19 pm

I think that there are many gifts in China and that as the Marco Polo of RSE science, I hope to bring back more than just a few spices.
OMG!! How did I miss that one!!!! :lol: :roll:

The Marco Polo of science.....OMG!

uh...how about: "There is nothing new under the sun Horatio" ??!!!
oh Danielle, you will SOOO look back years from now and think,
"omg, I was such an a$$." I want to be there for that one.
You will have to dig your own head out, but I will be there with Kleenex....

Wakeup-Call
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:20 am
Location: Washington

Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:40 pm

Joe - yes, Danielle did go to China. I heard a presentation - frankly, it sounded like these people were out on the fringe as well. Supposedly, they looked at Danielle's data and recognized something they called "The Door" - their meditators passed through "The Door" at a certain point. No explanation of that, just loud audience applause at the Ranch.

I'm chuckling here, because I got a vision of Danielle and her tribe traipsing through China with their allegorical blinders on, calling...
"Marco??...."

"Polo...."

"Marco??..."

"Polo..."

User avatar
littlewiseone
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:26 am
Location: US and A

Unread post by littlewiseone » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:43 pm

Wake-up, I think the applause you are describing at the ranch is the kind where nobody really gets it, but they figure if they applaud real hard they can somehow appear intelligent... hillarious/sad stuff.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make...

- The Beatles

Whatchamacallit
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm
Location: Earth
Contact:

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:02 am

littlewiseone wrote:Wake-up, I think the applause you are describing at the ranch is the kind where nobody really gets it, but they figure if they applaud real hard they can somehow appear intelligent... hillarious/sad stuff.
Exactly.

Like the robotic "raising of your hand" if you understand, or AGREE. It's amazing how many things we agreed to, without even thinking about them.

Danielle...oh, dear. I am embarrassed FOR you. (not being sarcastic)

Hearing her talk in audience, I noticed how very arrogant and narcissitic she was. I'm surprised she wasn't blowing kisses to herself. It's all very sad. But, she's being enabled in RSE to her entitlement. Sad, sad.

Remember she even talked about the professor from Evergreen that she claims to have brought to the ranch, to show HIM what's what with her experiment/data ? She claims that as he returned to his car, he said to her, somewhat surprised, "This place really IS a school."

She was VERY pleased with herself. She set the science department straight, as a college freshman/sophomore.

Egads.

Xylofone
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Re: Danielle Graham's Studies

Unread post by Xylofone » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:35 pm

You can't take her work seriously. She wanted center stage at RSE and JZ let her run experiments for a while and then cut her off.

She ran off and joined another cult in India (a live-in cult) after leaving RSE and pledged the rest of her life to a charlatan guru whose disciples have been caught faking manifestation and other so-called powers.

I didn't realize people cult-hopped but a few other RSE students got involved with this charlatan, too.

When the dream breaks down they feel unworthy of the cult leader rather than seeing that they've been scammed again.

By the way, her research paper that she was so proud to have gotten published (the reason she was able to claim such high honors as a scientist as she called herself) was eventually pulled from publication when reviewed by actual scientists. So there you have it.

Post Reply

Return to “The so called Scientific Study on JZ Knight-Ramtha”