Sociopaths taught?

What experiences led to your opinion that RSE is, or isn't, a cult ? Address issues; no flaming tolerated.
sequitur
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Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by sequitur » Tue May 28, 2013 6:57 am

I am not in nor have I ever been in the school. I deal with regularly in my business, I have noticed that most have no regard for rules or guidelines.
They seem arrogant and pushy. They seem to snub their noses at any form of authority. I was wondering if this behavior is taught or somehow
implied as a way to treat other people?

joe sz
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by joe sz » Tue May 28, 2013 10:22 pm

I call it social contagion. We tend to take on the behaviors and speech of our in-group. Studies of cult and gang members indicate a strong tendency to migrate to a kind of group personality, group style, and group-speak.
This is a natural effect of any highly devotional milieu--no one has to "teach" this behavior, only manage it to get the believer in line or in the loop. Most people will adapt hairstyles, looks, apparel, attitude and language readily to insure acceptance in and feel the comfort of identification with something they want to believe.
Here is a good source for what I mean:
http://www.somis.org/TDD-01.html
http://www.amazon.com/Discipling-Dilemm ... 0892253118

sequitur
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by sequitur » Tue May 28, 2013 11:00 pm

That makes a lot of sense. Thank-You for your in depth analogy. Now that it is pointed out I have noticed the same
type of singularity in religious settings where everyone is stuck in the same mindset.
I also must say there are very intelligent and well spoken highly functional skilled people in the school which we
would not have in this area if not for the school being here. She must be a master at manipulation to get them to blindly
buy into these concepts. Or as I have wondered if they stay because of the group which gives them access to business and comradery that
they have not had and now enjoy fully knowing that the teachings are half baked bs, the last line is my own take
on my limited knowledge of what goes on there. I have watched some of the videos and debated much on the validity
of the school of which I find to be so full of holes it would not slow down a breeze.

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David McCarthy
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue May 28, 2013 11:11 pm

Hi sequitur welcome to EMF, thank you for your post.
To follow-up on what Joe shared....
Yes, the arrogance is taught directly through the direct atrocious behavior of JZK\ R and RSE staff member's.
Students mimic this behavior to varying degrees, often you see this in the form of entitlement and arrogance.
Most students that arrived at RSE were wonderful, intelligent selfless people on a spiritual quest,
lured by promises of healing and true spirituality...
But once through those gates.... its a steady downhill slide into enslavement all dressed up as freedom.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

sequitur
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 12:01 am

She is a piece of work. What percentage do you suppose are true believers of what is taught?
What I have issue with and it may be just that I am not understanding what the context is; the whole
concept of being a God, and the creation of reality. When a being can create mass from the void
and make that mass a living entity I would consider them for god like status. Of course they would
have to work on a universal scale to be a God in my understanding of the concept, I also understand
the power of positive thinking and how it can effect everything we do, but to create reality, again
it may just be semantics and my lack of understanding the context? I just wish they would consider
that their reality has to mesh with other realities.

sequitur
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 12:21 am

I suppose the money and time she robs from the people is miniscule to their real sense of being, and what of the families?
I have one customer who moved here from overseas, she lives in a one room shack with her children and their children.
She sold her home overseas, a home that when she talks of it's beauty her face lights up. She is not a legal citizen and
has to move between Canada and here to stay in this country. It is sad how much these people give up, what is borderline
criminal is what the children give up. I heard JZ is having health issues, when she passes I hope there is atonement. I wonder
what will become of the school and the people in it when she is gone?

Ockham
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by Ockham » Wed May 29, 2013 6:36 am

I think there are quite a few long term ramsters that completely know that JZ Knight and RSE are a sham - they are there to foist new age scams of fake bank debenture shares, vitamins, water alkalyzer machines, mineral dietary supplements that are in reality pool chemicals, and colloidal silver that's full of nitric acid. I am convinced a lot of the scams go on with JZ Knight's knowledge or even approval and I suspect she gets a cut of the action. The other scammy behavior goes on in the periphery in Yelm at large, much like the circus of goof balls that follow a Grateful Dead rock tour - the difference being that the RSE circus stays rooted in one place.

There are other unsavory characters that hang out in RSE. One example is Michael Ledwith that was essentially forced out of the Catholic Church in Ireland where misconduct between staff and students took place while Ledwith was a college administrator. Several years after departing the Church, Ledwith surfaced at RSE where he's known by the nickname Father. He's visible as the gray haired guy hanging out on stage with JZ Knight in some RSE's own promotional videos on Youtube. Ledwith runs a web site called Hamburger Universe promoting his New Age books.

Another tie to RSE is an Internet radio web site that hosts a talk-show-like podcast called Beyond the Ordinary that often features RSE staff. About two years ago, the daughter of a ramster who died of heart disease made a tearful plea for ramsters to stop using alkaline water machines - presumably because somebody had touted the machines at RSE and her father's death was tied to use of the machine. Ramsters I know told me that they received e-mail from RSE with instructions to listen to that podcast. Beyond the Ordinary also has had an advertiser called Colonial that has also appeared in an RSE affiliated web publication called Master's Connection 20/20. Colonial apparently ripped off ramsters selling, "cull," scrap silver Dollars as investment grade coins.

Of course I am an outsider, and my opinions are an impression of what RSE allows us to see from the outside of the organization. To me it feels like RSE is a shark tank of long term ramsters that are all trying to out-scam each other and extract as much as they can out of neophytes as they come through RSE's gate.

Ramsters definitely cop an attitude. RSE promotes a distrust of authority figures, supposedly teaching the government is actually run by reptilian aliens. RSE also promotes the sovereignty movement and some ramsters have turned their properties into armed compounds with underground shelters. Some ramsters allegedly camp out as illegal immigrants, holed up in recreational vehicles squatting on others' properties around Yelm.

Ockham
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by Ockham » Wed May 29, 2013 6:58 am

There is a whole infrastructure around RSE with books, videos, for-pay web content, etc., etc. There is a lot of money to be made. I think when JZ Knight dies, there is enough inertia tat RSE won't disappear right away. Perhaps JZ Knight is of the same stature as, say Edgar Cayce or Nicola Tesla, but the latter are still household names and spark urban legends even decades after their passing. The difference is that Cayce and Tesla were well known internationally in their time, but Knight and more so the Ramtha (tm) character are generally unknown outside the New Age movement. Will Knight's mystique and RSE persist after she's dead - I think for at least a while, but probably not like Cayce. If Knight is smart and wants RSE to stay around for the long term, she has a succession plan for somebody else to start doing Ramtha when Knight dies. I wonder... I also suspect Knight's ego may get in the way of her being able to accept that somebody else can do the Ramtha gig. We'll have to wait and see.

Ockham
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by Ockham » Wed May 29, 2013 7:10 am

One could debate for hundreds of blog pages about the creation of reality and being God. In the short, if one reads mainstream authors in Modern Physics, there seems to be consensus that there is objective reality in which we are all extant. One could argue that reality is based on perception and that a ramster could use her or his mind to manufacture any reality wanted - unfortunately that is fantasy, not reality; outside the ramster's head, the universe goes on as always.

sequitur
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by sequitur » Wed May 29, 2013 7:45 am

You have clearly been able to watch this closer than I Ockham, Thank-You for sharing your insight. Thanks for all these answers, you
can see how it becomes mucked up to the point that I have been torqued out compiling questions. I found this site very informative
and helpful in as far as knowing others have seen the same and came to the same conclusions. Usually the only ones I have to
discuss my misgivings with are the uninformed or the completely immersed. It is good to hear these perspective's from informed
people that are seeking solutions. Now that JZ has brought that lawsuit against this site I am sure more people from the school
will see another perspective and hopefully it will someday dawn on them as it has many of you how predatory the school is.

joe sz
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Re: Sociopaths taught?

Unread post by joe sz » Thu May 30, 2013 9:13 pm

this is one of the most difficult concepts to grasp: How do cults and cult leaders manage to control people?
What kind of person joins a cult?
Both questions are poorly worded thus the answers will be skewed.
Better to ask:
How does anyone manage to control people?
Why do human beings gravitate to group activity and cohesion?

The same process occurs whether the group is good, bad or ridiculous.

Human beings operate more efficiently and better as social groups since stone age hominids being creating clans, rituals, rules, and myths to live by.

That transcendent attraction draws us out of ourselves to serve a group, play a role in a group, lead a group, etc. All necessary features in human civil society.
Leaders almost always have charismatic qualities that set then apart from the crowd that does not want the responsibility to lead yet should retain the power to dismiss a leader. In ancient tribes, the shaman or priest was rarely if ever the leader for good reason: Prophets, shamans have a different role. The chief leads in practical ways of knowledge. iow, a healthy clan always had a separation of church and state. In RSE JZ is both shaman and chief, or is very invested at faking it by assuming a god persona in Ramtha, who retains both shaman and chief.

Herein lies the problem. Unless the group has means by which to sustain a balance of power, a leader can take full advantage---the power WILL corrupt anyone that will not submit to proper governance. In a healthy "cult formation" as in some monasteries I know, the abbot can be voted out or in every year. The monks have a democratic power that does not exist in RSE.

bad unhealthy cults encourage an intense circular path, one that orbits the leader and the doctrine 24/7, but the follower can make no effort to be as powerful as the leader or as "enlightened". I call this circular tension and it can result in the follower ending up in a rut, getting more and more mired and never reaching the goal [becoming a god, ascending, etc.]

exiting becomes perilous due to phobias about the world out there being unreal, evil, ignorant, soul-stealing, etc. The worst part of thinking of leaving a harmful cult is the realization that there is no baby and bath water. Everything has to be tossed. In Christian terms, to be "born again" means to pour new wine into new wineskins. This is tough to grasp. David does not like my analogy about marriage, but it works here. Once divorced, you cannot be spouting the good things about your previous wife to you new wife and expect her to feel comfort in that. The old wife"the one your used to call baby baby when having sex, has to be all gone from your life. I know this is difficult to achieve due to shared kids and assets, but the new marriage goes much better if that old one is gone baby gone :!:

Life after cult goes much better when all the stupid stuff the cult put in your head is gone and replaced by a healthy mind set.

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