Programming?

[Wakeup-Call]

Question for our cult and programming experts...

As my stomach turns as I ask this because I think I already know the answer....

Regarding Ramtha's signature teaching techniques:
1) "How many of you agree?" - and getting people to raise their hands, nearly on automatic pilot
2) Saying "So be it" with the arm/hand kinetic motion to indicate agreement and acceptance
3) Turning to your partner to restate Ramtha's "teaching"

Are these actually mind control, thought reform, brainwashing type techniques?

[journeythroughramthaland]

Hi Wake-up,

1) "How many of you agree?" - and getting people to raise their hands, nearly on automatic pilot

all of these things go to an aspect of expanding ones capacity to be influenced by both the dynamic they produce as well as the behavior and follow thru actions which may follow.

This particular statement can serve several purposes. firstly, it can be used as a gauge for the speaker to see how all other previous methods have been working. Second, it provides the audience with a view that there is a social consensus which allows them to feel more comfortable with agreeing to things which under normal circumstances they may not have, thirdly, it can help to bond the group as they all see that they are moving along at the same speed.

2) Saying "So be it" with the arm/hand kinetic motion to indicate agreement and acceptance

This statement and behavior has all the aspects above as well as coming at the end of a command or statement. As such, it has the effect of effectively sealing it off from question, giving the perspective of it being outside understanding for those who were not there, as well as imputing a "godly" attitude and persona to the one initiating it. My understanding of the purpose of this statement is to assist one in bringing words and thoughts into actuality. In a way, a "Let there be light" statement. The ritual aspect of the motions which go along with it are comparable to the "Seig Heil" (spelling) salute of the Nazi's.[IMHO]

I have a question, I have never heard of the hand actions along with the words "so be it" being specifically taught could someone fill me in on that? was it just mimicked?

3) Turning to your partner to restate Ramtha's "teaching"

This one is tricky; first you have been partnered up. This orchestrates a closer personal bond then what might otherwise have been available and depending on the way in which the partners are chosen, and opportunity for further manipulation. "Imagine turning to ones partner and saying "that sounded like a pile of ^%$#".

Almost impossible to do even if one has a slight smell of horsey doo doo. Besides being an instrument to expand the "teachings" meanings through the interpretation of ones partner, it goes a long way to increase ones commitment towards whatever idea, concept, behavior that was presented. These become seeds of commitment which because of the dynamics applied as well as the order in which they are applied limit ones choices in how to think about things so that they fall into the orchestrated trail the speaker has created for the listener to follow, much like a cross country skiing trail where it is easier to follow the other skiers tracks.

[ex]

yes :so be it and throwing your hand =sieg heil and raise your arm.many of the technics are just softening your brain to plant jzrs neuronets.the teachings go hand in hand with twisted liveadwises [dump yor partner and spend your money in yelm]the teachings are held very crypticly untill you spend money for the initiation.and then they got you thinking like every ramy and you still belive they are all your own thought.if you like a carneval its a good place.

[Kaworu]

Another technique that JZ Knight uses is to ask questions about a topic that she currently covers and then answers them by herself without batting an eye. This leaves no room for your own individual thoughts, the people are most likely to accept the answer because they buy the scam that the Ramtha character is an omniscient god-man and simply knows best (this is supported by much rhetoric from Ramtha, mainly when he says that "nobody loves you as much as I do" or "I am in a better viewing area" and the like). She also rarely talks plaintext and confuses the audience with randomly lined up statements - the typical JZ blabla that makes no real sense and misses the original point of a topic - she wiggles herself around an answer by quickly jumping onto other subjects.

[Wakeup-Call]

I have a question, I have never heard of the hand actions along with the words "so be it" being specifically taught could someone fill me in on that? was it just mimicked?

JTR - yes, the hand motion was specifically taught by Ramtha at the Beginning Retreats as one of the first and foundational aspects of having him as our teacher. This is on the Beginner's Video set (no longer produced). Ramtha shows the hand motion in 3 steps - although, most students as well as JZR just do a sweeping arc nowadays.

1) Your hand starts on your forehead and moves away from the body about 4 inches as you say "So"
2) Your hand moves directly right and ends about at your shoulder as you say "Be"
3) Your hand moves 90 degrees and backwards about 4 inches (about at your shoulder) as you say "It"

The symbolism is that a thought starts in your frontal lobe, flows through the 7 dimensions and finally manifests at your command.

In recent years, JZ started what my friends and I nicknames "The Double So-Be-It" - using both hands. I guess it was supposed to have double the power.

My friends and I used to say "No-Be-It" and the do the motion backwards when Ramtha was reigning down terror in his prophecies. Now that I have revealed this equally made-up teaching, everyone watch for the "No Be It" teaching to show up in the Fall Follow-Ups with the teaching that people can cancel any experience coming at them they don't want by the No-Be-It practice.

[Wakeup-Call]

Kaworu - yes, that is exactly the experience. And while JZR is doing this, is also constantly reminding the students that this is a brilliant teaching methodology because it builds up their neuronet connections. In other words, if Ramtha spelled everything out, then our brains wouldn't stretch and grow and "get" the teaching.

Having read some of the material on cults, what is really happening is that the students end up making up justifications and rationalizations and filling-in-the-blanks on the teachings so it all hangs together and they can believe the teachings "stand on their own."

[tree]

NLP at its' finest.

[Whatchamacallit]

Journey said, "firstly, it can be used as a gauge for the speaker to see how all other previous methods have been working."

I can comment about this (and agree).

I've been in audiences where I've been a rare bird, NOT raising my hand when Ramtha/JZ says to do so, in response to, "How many of you agree?" Typically, the hands will even be raising, before s/he finishes even speaking !! What does that tell you about the lack of THINKING going on in the student's minds ?

Also, there are instances that myself and others have experienced, when we've dared to NOT raise our hands. Ridicule follows. Sometimes mildly, sometimes downright verbally abusive, and threatening. I've heard people's lives be threatened specifically.

[Whatchamacallit]

Wakeup said, "My friends and I used to say "No-Be-It" and the do the motion backwards when Ramtha was reigning down terror in his prophecies."


Awwww. That's because you and your friends have/had a heart !!! How many of them are "identified" with the terror prophecies and EXPECT that they're going to come true ? Too many. They missed the hypocrisy of the teaching that you create your day/reality ! Unless Ramtha TELLS YOU what you're reality will be, that is !