One Percent Group Think and RSE

What experiences led to your opinion that RSE is, or isn't, a cult ? Address issues; no flaming tolerated.
Leemar
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One Percent Group Think and RSE

Unread post by Leemar » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:45 am

A few years ago I lived in northern Illinois/southern Wisconsin. I indulged, and continue to indulge, myself in a hobby restoring old British motorcycles. Out of that came encounters with various members of a one percent group, the Outlaw MC. I witnessed these individuals entertain themselves with their own peculiar brand of arrogance and self importance. Their behavior was at best loathsome and factually criminal. (see Gauger vs. Illinois).

My point is that the mind set at RSE closely resembles the mind set/belief system adopted and maintained by individuals who engage themselves with one percent groups like the Outlaws, Red & White, Bandito's etc.

1: I'm a victim and it's my turn to settle the score
2: I'm my own authority and set my own rules
3: I am not accountable to anyone for what I do to you

Read this and substitute RSE for MC:

A motorcycle club (MC) is an organized club of dedicated motorcyclists who join together for camaraderie, strength of numbers, and peer group acceptance. Motorcycle clubs have a group of elected officers, a probationary period for new members, and a measure of privacy about their internal structure, bylaws, and membership. As part of becoming a full member, an individual must pass a vote of the membership and swear some level of allegiance to the club. Each club has a unique club patch (or patches) adorned with the term "MC" that are worn on the riders vest, known as colors. Membership in a MC is much different than membership in a motorcycle riding club, because it is the pinnacle of the counterculture, "outlaw" biker lifestyle.

Motorcycle clubs are historically divided into two types: One-percenters, and everyone else (or 99-percenters). One-percent clubs were named in a famous statement by the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA), describing certain troublemakers as only one percent of motorcyclists. There are a great many clubs for motorcycle riders who refer to themselves generically as motorcycle clubs. Though they are grammatically correct, these clubs are not MCs in the strictest sense of the term, and members of MCs, i.e clubs who wear an MC patch, regard these other clubs as motorcycle riding clubs. In the UK they are designated as MCCs [1].


NOW think about the comparison of one percent groups vis a vis 99% groups. I would venture that RSE, Scientology, IAM, etc. have, by far, more in common with one percent groups than folks who like to share a hobby or spend a few hours together on the weekend at the local house of worship.


So to all you RSE devotees, welcome to the underworld of the !%.

I remain,

Leemar, Admiral Galactic Invasion Force and Astro's Best Friend

Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:45 pm

Hi Leemar:

I don't know much about the "MC" you mention, but certainly have heard of the Hell's Angels and the Outlaws. I see your analogy up to a point, affiliation to a secret society. However, I see some marked differences as well.
The outlaw motorcycle gangs in my neck of the woods have fingers in many pies, and are organizations dedicated to criminal activity of an often extremely violent sort. This isn't two teachers swatting at each other when drunk at a wine ceremony. This is murder, arson, extorsion, drug trafficking, human traficking, gang rape, arms dealing - yeah, organized crime. And they are openly killing each other.
It's hard to know who is pulling their strings but I bet you it's not Ramtha, or any spiritual entity.
The goal of the student, prospective student, or ex-student of RSE could best be described as self-actualization and enlightenment. Their may be some conning going on. Maybe some drunken disorderly. Even some suggestion of child abuse, but obviously nobody would join or stay if that was actually endorsed.
Hard to categorized what the goal is with members of an organized crime ring, and some of them are less truly criminal than others, but I fail to see the resemblance in mindset.
Can you expand on what you mean?

wolfman

Unread post by wolfman » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:10 pm

LEEMARS.......

P.S. and by the way........

British Motorcycles are not motorcycles.

Their boat anchors.

Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:52 pm

Wolfman, I don't know about Leemar, but I am now officialy scared of you!

However, all that goes towards my point, Leemar - if some group kicks down your door, beats you up and sets fire to your house, it's probably not RSE.

Tyger

Unread post by Tyger » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:14 pm

LEEMAR says;

"NOW think about the comparison of one percent groups vis a vis 99% groups. I would venture that RSE, Scientology, IAM, etc. have, by far, more in common with one percent groups than folks who like to share a hobby or spend a few hours together on the weekend at the local house of worship."

Correct. Comparisons between obscure fringe control groups like RSE, etc. have zero relationship, bearing, or similarities to other social groupings. Thus the term, "cult".

Lost says;

"The goal of the student, prospective student, or ex-student of RSE could best be described as self-actualization and enlightenment. Their may be some conning going on. Maybe some drunken disorderly. Even some suggestion of child abuse, but obviously nobody would join or stay if that was actually endorsed.
Hard to categorized what the goal is with members of an organized crime ring, and some of them are less truly criminal than others, but I fail to see the resemblance in mindset.
Can you expand on what you mean?"

The goal of the students is one agenda, a selfish one. Yet, anyone who has been to the school or even examined RSE from afar can see that JZ and her staff have a far different agenda. I like to use Scamtha's favorite person and point out the similar dynamics in agenda between the average German citizen, and the Nazi Party members of that era. :D "The left hand knoweth not what the right hand doeth." RSE is supported by the financial contributions of her students. Just the same as "The Mob" was supported through financial extortion of what were people only trying to make a living. That is one comparison. There are plenty of others, such as JZ's sudden and recent interest in politics.

It bears further comment that the intent of the "beginning student" is a FAR, FAR, FAR cry from what they encounter OR are taught at the school. Point of fact: C+E=R is a crock of doggie poo-poo. It doesn't hold up under any standard but that of an unimaginative infant's. Everything that follows FROM THAT teaching is also junk by it's very foundation's nature. ALL of it. Not ONE SINGLE PHENOMENON that I've EVER heard about or witnessed myself...(including my own), can be even REMOTELY ATTRIBUTED TO C+E=R. That's NOT what it was....or is. "She's" lying to her audience. (Oh, not you JZ....I'm referring to 'the entity that has no ID' :wink: )

The agenda of the senior staff and JZ seem to be manyfold. Obviously JZ is doing it for the money....as are some of the staff, I'm sure. Then there is the high probability (assuming she's not simply demonic, of course) that she's started to believe her own BS and is actually trying to create a New Age army of blindfolded hippies. (LOL!!! Good Lord....). When one considers all the thousands of discrepancies between the advertised product and the delivered one...one is hard pressed to find a single positive thing about it.

Unless, of course, self-delusion is a positive. If it is....then RSE is the Harvard/Yale of them all.

Oh, and Lost....you've apparently never heard the story about 'The Ramster, The House, and the Bic Lighter'??? :wink:

Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:18 am

Well Tyger, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine, right?

One thing you said, though -
""The Mob" was supported..." - like Nazi Germany, you think that was in the past????? No, No, that is my reality, in the really big City where I live, formerly known as "Toronto the Good", here and now, today.

Also, if you tell me the story of the Ramster, the Bic lighter, and the house, I will tell you the story of the three year old, the selfishly absent father, non-cult or mob affiliated, and the pack of matches. Or the freezing street person, the generous (?) passerbye, and the exploding propane stove.

Tyger

Unread post by Tyger » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:40 am

Lost;

But were any of those people actually 'breathing' to set the place on fire and just follow a misguided interpretation of the "teaching"? As in: "When a Master leaves, the place he leaves literally is destroyed or disappears."

:wink:

Leemar
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Reply to lost in space

Unread post by Leemar » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:44 am

Lost in space wrote:
"The outlaw motorcycle gangs in my neck of the woods have fingers in many pies, and are organizations dedicated to criminal activity of an often extremely violent sort".

Here is my comparison:

1. In the case of 1% organizations, I would venture that the vast majority of investigations into these groups begin with some inquiry into racketeering, fraud or income tax discrepencies. These investigations may be directly related to the infrastructure of the organization or they may be related more in a more obtuse manner to specific individuals who are members or followers or wannabees.

2. In the case of JZ Knight, the first well known investigation into RSE, which I know of, began with questionable business practices entered into regarding the Arabian horse syndicates, next there was investigation into questionable accountings for IRS filings. In my reality, this is equivalent to racketeering, fraud and tax problems, and, these are institutional problems. Further you have organizational members who opt to engage in similar behavior, with, in my mind, the winking acceptance and support of the organizational structure, i.e. Carol Lawson and World Water Solutions, Mary Redhead and Thelma Magno in an FTC investigation regarding HIV treatment, Omega, white gold, MLM's etc. They are all cons and schemes and likely subject to, at minimum an audit and more likely a fraud investigation. Sort of like identity theft and

Out of racketeering/fraud/tax investigations came further inquiry into more harmful or violent behavior of specific members of 1% groups and members of RSE.

1. 1% groups like the Outlaws, have members who have been investigated for RICCO violations, and in the case of Gauger vs Illinois, have been convicted of violent crimes. (PS I know Gary Gauger, Ginger Gauger and Greg Gauger.

2. Members of RSE have been investigated by the state of Washington for security infractions, by the FTC for fraud (Knight, Redhead, Magno, Lawson). Members of RSE have been implicated in alleged sexual violence, (Ledwith, Wayne Allen Geis and, Ruth Beverly Martin.) The postings on this board by, I guess, former members describe abusive practices, violent and criminal behavior, yet you say 1% groups are "dedicated to criminal activity of an often extremely violent sort".

I don't think you will find one bit of evidence from any !% organization which explicitly states their organization is "dedicated to criminal activity of an often extremely violent sort". You will not find such a statement with RSE. It simply manifests itself. Hey the Red and White, The Outlaws, The Banditos, are all just about love and brotherhood and friends and hanging out and sharing and the truth and getting it,,, just like RSE.

I remain,

Leemar, Admiral of the Galactic Invasion Force and Astro's best friend

Leemar
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To Wolfman

Unread post by Leemar » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:02 am

Let me share a bit with you Wolfman.

1. Brit bikes are way too small to be boat anchors. You need something larger and less nimble like an American made V-Twin to effectively anchor a real boat, but, maybe you just paddle around in a canoe so a Brit bike might work for you. Just wanted to "share" that little orange slice with you.

1. You really won't appreciate an old Norton until you begin to realize that they used the same gearbox from the early 1950's until, they went out of business and yeah, once in a while the forks broke off the early Commando's, and tuning two, let alone three Amal carbs is an exercise in patience combined with a bit of magic fairy dust and a tip cleaner for a torch and some bobble head focus.

Hey Wolfman!!, why are you on this board, I mean for real? What is your problem! You got some problem with old pieces of junk that may, or, maynot run depending upon their particular kundalini, i.e. the plugs are fucked, again, the battery is smoked, again, the Amal's are anal, again. I mean get a life Wolfman get a Brit bike.

I remain,

Leemar, Admiral of the Galactic Invasion Force and Astro's best friend

Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:10 am

WEll, Leemar, when a biker club killed half of their members, 9 people, in cold blood on their own farmhouse, I don't think the subject of their income taxes came up at all.
When my friend was gang raped, and her boyfriend along with her, in an attempt to turn them into prostitutes, by a bike gang, I don't think that the question of their ties to graft and corruption came up.
When my neighbour was dragged down a ravine by her hair, when she was 12, "just to make her show respect", I don't think anybody was thinking they were "child molesters" - she was not sexually abused.
When several explosions of businesses and homes in Montreal occured, and people were found floating in the St. Lawrence with their hands tied and their privates removed, and a little boy died as a result of a car bomb there, I don't think finances entered anybody's head.
I am not saying, nothing bad happened at RSE.
Guess I am saying, given the choice between being alone in a back alley with either an RSE member/teacher/even, leader or a member of an outlaw bike club, I would definitely choose the person from RSE!

Leemar
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To Lost in Space

Unread post by Leemar » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:28 am

Lost:

I wouldn't choose either one. I would grab something that floats and get the hell out of that boat. You are parsing words, and apologizing for the group dynamics of RSE. I bet the surviving Hale Bop followers adhere to the same mantra, "better this than that". But the facts remain. RSE cult followers did what........they did......be accountable. Judith Hampton, in my opinion, has a criminal mind and the individuals who worship HER imbue themselves with a like mindset. Hey, Ramtha is as real, or likely less, to me as Charley McCarthy, the puppet,,,remember him? To be direct, I find it nauseous to read posts which intimate Judith and the R are separate entities. Give me a break! Get REAL!

I remain,

Leemar, Admiral Galactic Invasion Force and Astro's best friend

PS. I am going to try to post a picture of Astro, because he is may best friend, he is really handsome, he is really bushy, he has a a really wet nose and the only thing he cares about is being current with pepperoni.

Lost in Space
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Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:46 am

I just said, it's a question of degree, and, was not at RSE, neither were you. I guess it's hard for me, though, to understand it as the truly wicked vile organization it must be if you would liken it to what I've seen of those 1%s. And also, all the people on here who used to be members of RSE don't strike me as having ever had much in common with those 1%s.
I am sorry about what your sister did, that was really bad.
But is she violent???

Would love to see a picture of your Astro.
My Astro, the cat, would probably like that too.
What kind of dog is Astro again?

Peace to you Leemar.

Leemar
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Unread post by Leemar » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:40 am

Lost wrote:

all the people on here who used to be members of RSE don't strike me as having ever had much in common with those 1%s.

I'm have to disagree Lost. I think that the mind set in 1% groups, high demand groups, LGAT groups boils down to a very common theme, one of selfishness. Take a look at alexandria's video at the Yelm middle school with Joe and David and Greg et al. A frequent position she took with respect to dismissing her father's concern was, I AM doing what I want to do. I believe she now acknowledges the harm this took on her and her family. 1%'s are doing what they want to do. CUT member's are doing what they want to do. Carol Lawson was doing what she wanted to do. Mary Redhead was doing what she wanted to do. Ledwith was doing what he wanted to do. Hampton is doing what she wants to do. Everyone is doing, impeccably I might add, what they want to do and damn the consequences, damn the outcome, just carry on doing whatever it is YOU want to do and then when you come out of your trance state and see all of the damage you have imparted EITHER INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY stop for a minute and, rather than say to yourself, OH SILLY ME FOR WASTING SO MUCH OF MY TIME WITH THIS FAIRY TALE, ASK YOURSELF, WHO DID I HURT WHILE I WAS PRETENDING THIS IS REAL AND HOW CAN I DO SOMETHING TO LET THEM KNOW IT WAS NOT THEM, IT WAS MY OWN FAILING, I AM SORRY and FORGIVE ME.

I Remain:

Leemar, Admiral Galactic Invasion Force and Astro's best friend

PS: Astro's mug is in "Process" Hey did anyone ever here about "Systems and Procedures"? Is that RSE stuff? Heard that a bit from my sis. Always sounded a bit odd.
Odds are - they will.

PS YOU, ME, and I etc are rhetorical

Tyger

Unread post by Tyger » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:29 pm

LEEMAR is correct again.

I've never met or seen a single group of people so dedicatedly selfish as Ramster's my entire life. They make Kremlin communists look generous.

They are self-serving, selfish, irresponsible, dishonest, tend toward the narcissistic, definitely delusional, highly paranoid, hateful (get a Ramster mad and watch them hurl spells at you), care nothing about 'mankind' - only their own "enlightenment", and are some of the most dictatorial, tyrannical, and rude people I've ever met. Over half of them are stone cold drunk at any given hour of the day or night. They tend to be so stupid that you could tell them Twinkies are "the food of the Gods" and the morons will buy them by the caseload.

And those are their good points. Truly P.T. Barnum's kind of people.

Also, the males from RSE tend to be so feminized that getting them to shake your hand instead of hugging you like a woman and trying to cop a feel is a "discipline" in and of itself. I have to tell them all the time...."I'm not gay, why are you touching me like you want me to be?"

Then they look at you with this stupid, "I don't get it?" look. It's disgusting....

It's the most anti-human school ever conceived.

And now they are targeting the children....

wolfman

Unread post by wolfman » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:26 am

Hey Tyger ! ! !

RSE is a waste land of the waste land.

I was there for 13 years.

But what I learned was that there are bigger fish in the ocean and the bigger fish eat the smaller fish that float to the top.

Squids are included.

My Stop At RSE Was A Stop In Time................

I understand that now.

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G2G
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Unread post by G2G » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:48 am

wolfman wrote:

My Stop At RSE Was A Stop In Time................
I understand that now.
That's a very interesting perspective, Wolf. In a sense, 'time' did indeed stop for me. Again, I had no idea what I was getting into, but once in I wished for more "truth" or "knowledge" from imo, an altruistic perspective. Even though my tenure was short, it was during a very traumatic and tragic time in my family's life. In doing something so desperately to 'help,' I left one I loved so much, one I promised to be with at all times in times of need (not my husband, still here, thank you!). I missed several weeks at a time from this person's life in order to "help." I focused only on health for them. Now, knowing all this person wished for was me to be there in the flesh, and to literally give my shoulder for them to rest upon. I can't regain this time lost. And I wonder. Was my going to RSE during this time my way of dealing with tragedy or subconsciously avoiding the ultimate encounter? I refused to believe I was going to lose this person. But I did. I can never regain the lost moments, and with all of the pitfalls of RSE and my regrets over attending, this is the singlemost issue. I could have been with this person for many, many more weeks, when they were still able to function. But I was always at some sort of retreat.

So for me, too, RSE was a "stop in time," or perhaps more likely, an attempt to stop time and avoid the inevitable. I could cry just writing this.
I am grateful for the fact that love never dies. Never. :(
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Living Force
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Unread post by Living Force » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:02 pm

G2G.....I am so sorry for the loss you have experienced ....and can feel your pain in the words you wrote....BIG HUGS to you over the net.....but all in all you have come to a self realization that is part of the journey you are on in this life....something lost...something gained...It just sucks when life shows each of us our lesson, without us being aware we were in class at the time.....so don't put yourself in detention for your past actions...it seems you have already paid enough....be thankful for what you have learnd...and go forward with that knowledge, to be the better person you are now. Peace to you!
Keep on Truckin'

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G2G
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Unread post by G2G » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:44 pm

Thank you, Life Force. "Good days" and some not so good. Yes, it was a path of learning, painful as it was.

Love is the tie that binds. :)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:01 am

g2G said, "Again, I had no idea what I was getting into, but once in I wished for more "truth" or "knowledge" from imo, an altruistic perspective. "

If people knew what they were getting into, and there was full disclosure that the school isn't going to make you a christ so that you can help heal others and this planet of its woes, they wouldn't have a membership. They prey on sincerity, with a glossy marketing campaign. How many people on here, over this past year, have said, "If only I had searched deeper first."

That's important. We're not that stupid. We didn't think we needed to search deeper AGAINST what was being marketed. If we went through life looking to prove all things wrong, or expect them to prove themselves right, we could become paranoid. Perhaps some have.

What I'm getting at, is the "burden of proof" should be upon the one responsible for truthfulness in marketing; RSE. They need to be held accountable for not delivering what the business claims it is marketing. JZ telling the WA State Attorney General that the school is ONLY intended to help people make their lives more enjoyable is not the same as having a website, and other marketing tactics (sales materials via THE UNITED STATES MAIL SYSTEM), soliciting for RSE as it claims you can heal your body, create any reality, do remote view, etc., etc.

RSE is guilty, in my opinion, of fraud. STudents are guilty of searching for deeper answers to life than they've been able to find elsewhere. That's not such a crime. The lucky ones figure it out a.s.a.p., and get out of there before too much damage has been done in their personal lives.

Leemar
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I think I finally got it:

Unread post by Leemar » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:43 am

When former RSE devotees speak in terms of the school being a fraud, I think the term is being used with respect to the organization failing to deliver on its marketing and advertising pitch ie. some sort of implied warranty of merchantability. Am I correct?

I am speaking to the organization being engaged in fraudulent practice which goes beyond the outward claims of the fluffing and hype from Simmons. I am speaking to the pervasive and endemic activities of the principals of the organization, the employees of the organization and the students/customers of the organization to engage in fraudulent business enterprises, offering fraudulent products and services and engaging in fraudulent financial transactions which are offered to the public - outside the boundary of the "school".

To list a few:

Omega
World Water Solutions
Horse Syndicates
White Gold
Silver Sea Water
Vortex Water
HIV Treatments
PIP
ITEX
MLM's such as "Money for Moms"
Family of Eagles
Lotto

These activities went beyond selling magic wizard capes, focus pillows, beeswax candles and magic mirrors. These activities involved fraudulent business practices and the activities involved not only principals of the organization, they involved students and employees of RSE. The frequency of these activities, in my mind is beyond coincidence and indicates that a mindset is developed at RSE which holds no guilt regarding activities that may actually harm others at no expense to you. This is what I mean by selfish and fraudulent behavior. It is not so much the puffing of the sales literature, "hey when is the last time your car turned you on" it is the fraudulent and perhaps criminal behavior that so frequently ooooozes out of that patch of ground..

I remain,

Leemar, Admiral Galactic Invasion Force and Astro's best friend

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:18 am

Leemar,

There is no doubt about it. "Ramtha" openly supported some of those activities.

It is also illegal to use the United States Postal Service to promote fraudulent activity. So, my specific reference to fraud, which is my opinion, was based on the things advertised and promoted in the snail mail. Such activities can be investigated and if guilt is found, guess who's in trouble ?

As for your expanded explanation of fraud, I agree.

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