See this article on "Debunking the Law of Attraction and "Thoughts Create Reality"
If you can wade through it, it makes many great points.
"Believe and Achieve explains exactly how the personal, intellectual, attitudinal, fraternal, and spiritual principles used by the likes of Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, and F.W. Woolworth as well as modern achievers like Tom Monaghan, Mary Kay Ash, Larry King, and Steve Jobs can be applied by you to reach your goals.
Whatever you believe you want to do with your life, we believe you can accomplish it, and more, by applying the ideas that are in this book."
Also, remember being told as a child "You can be anything you want to be."?
At what point does this become a cultic belief?
A skeptic, though, looking at RSE, would say that it's bizzare that a group of people who really believe this would spend all of their energies on preparing for a terrible doom that is to befall the World any day now.
I have ample proof in my life that I do create my reality from my thoughts
Because I have been a witness to my own life on what fear creates opposes to
Love and how you think a pure thought and have no editing, commenting
Or opinion, without doubt or faith can create a miracle
Yes, it's a Catch22. You can be filled up with wonderful ideas and goals, and really get the sense that you are on the right path at the ranch, and that in and of itself is not at all a bad thing. But then, to be berated repeatedly because, although Yelm is safe and R will protect 'his people', and we are all gods if we could but realize it, one is not prepared for the gruesome possibilities that lie in wait for one, like being eaten by aliens, or the starving masses engaging in nasty behaviours like raiding your food stores or stealing your children because the World has descended into a new dark age makes it all seem like a futile exercise. Why do disciplines, or believe, or strive to create anything, if it's all for nothing???
- David McCarthy
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Hi Justtruth,I have ample proof in my life that I do create my reality from my thoughts
Does "observation" affect reality?
I had pondered and stuggled with this question for many years;
it still remains one of the main salespitch hooks used by JZK/R to draw customers into RSE.
But now I understand how foolish to "Think" that my thoughts actually create the reality that surrounds me,
and what a dangerous and delusional state of mind to try and live by.
What I understand now is… I affect reality... not create it,
A seemingly subtle shift in understanding but with enormous implications that reconnected me with reality and out of the RSE madness.
therein I can know the preciousness of life and each other.
Just my perspective.
Life happens! JZ and her cronies are just cashing in on people's desperate wish to control their circumstances and change anything they are unhappy with, IMHO.
This illustrates two things.
1. Some things in life are random. Had my cousin departed to the picnic a few seconds earlier or a few seconds later, there would have been no wreck. It doesn’t take, "Ramtha," to know they weren't interested in manifesting their automobile accident and they didn't do anything to manifest it. Sure, we can use our thoughts to mobilize our bodies do action. If we don't act, the probability of success is zero. The odds of your favorite state government mailing you a check for $10,000,000 just because you think that would be great are zero - trust me! On the other hand, if you walk to the convenience store and buy a lotto ticket, your odds of that happening suddenly leap to a zillion-to-one, same as everybody else that buys one lotto ticket. Your thoughts alone are not ever going to condense a gold Double Eagle out of thin air and deposit it on your kitchen table, no matter how fun that would be. The, "Law of Attraction," as touted by the New Age movement is a contortion of the Pauli Exclusion Principle and Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle mixed with wishful thinking. If one buys into these modern physics theories, then one concludes that the act of observing a physical system results perturbation of the system. OK, so far. What is NOT guaranteed to the observer is that the observation will have a deterministic or repeatable outcome. Experiments bear out randomness.
2. There appears to be objective reality that subsumes the four dimensions of our space-time universe. Regardless of what Knight claims about, "Ramtha," nobody has yet been able to do a repeatable experiment on anything larger than a subatomic particle that supports non-uniform reality. Your reality, my reality, my cousin's reality and the drunk driver's reality are all the same. While my cousin was getting in the wreck, I was probably enjoying a hot dog at the picnic. I didn't want the wreck nor did I do anything to manifest it. I wasn't even aware of it. At the end of the day our realities were the same because both of our lives were touched by the event. If there weren't a single objective reality, something as ordinary as your trip to your workplace would be impossible due to the ensuing chaos that would result from not being able to tell if your car would actually drive in the direction you want to steer.
the law of attraction as stated in New Thought/The Secret is inept and inadequate...is easily dismissed as nonsense when put to a test. yes we attract certain reactions from people and the environment depending on our behavior. but their is an infinitely vast reality out there that we hardly touch with our thoughts and actions, yet can touch us. Think of radiation from sun spots or meteors crashing to earth.
think all the loving thoughts and feel positive vibes around a hungry tiger while pulling its tail in the wild and see what happens. This is the premise of the fringe Christian snake handling cults, eg. they all suffer when bitten by a rattlesnake and it injects its venom...
in the same vein I've encountered many clients during intervention who followed gurus that the client believes "arranges" reality for them once they submit to that guru. there are similarites to Ramtha here. The client may be very upset that the family introduced me by surprise, and refuse to speak with me. I gently remind them that nothing happens with out the guru [or their karma or 'the universe'] arranging it, so my presence in their lives at that moment is "warranted." This sets up the inevitable double bind, often makes the person angry, but all am using is their 'logic' to begin the discussion and expand on it.
iow, the client must have done something to attract me to them----in effect they did---they joined a cult and upset their family or spouse
Joe, I really like your way of using the follower's 'logic' to gently open someone to recognizing the trap/prison their mind may be in. It was through examining this sort of thought pattern and testing it out for myself, without the reinforced influence of the cult that it lost validity. That questioning primarily allowed for a greater sense of comfort in examining more closely the dead end thought patterns that I had come to base beliefs upon. Utilizing as much objectivity as was possible given the circumstances, helped to bring about honesty with myself. That was the tough bit because it meant identifying and then letting go of hopes and yes even fears; the very things that were driving some of the aberrant thought patterns in the first place. It seems to be an ongoing process without an end in sight .
A while ago I got into a bit of a debate with a couple of hardliner RSE followers who said that I had given my power away and that I was creating a dangerous reality for myself (hanging out with the less fortunate and not preparing for the TDC).
So I first asked them what the 'power' was that I had presumably given away. No answer to that one...only a stunned sort of silence. That line, "giving your power away" seems to be just one of many thought stopping clichés that I too had adopted while in RSE. It means absolutely nothing because the operative term 'power', has never been defined; at least in RSE terms.
Second we discussed the idea of creating reality by means of thought and intention. Holding to RSE logic, they reminded me that it was the most pervasive subject that one held in the mind that ended up creating the nature of reality. They claimed that the disciplines that they did were to put what they desired at the front of all else (...in the frontal lobe as they put it).
I asked if they could agree that actions came first from thought and so actions were both indicative of the underlying thought pattern and contributing to what might be creating the nature of their reality. They affirmed that quite energetically, most likely because they were still thinking about the topic which brought this whole conversation on in the first place. They were living in paranoid seclusion, preparing for the DTC and we had been discussing the long term future of such an existence.
When it was pointed out that all the preparations and the many levels of seclusion; physically, socially and mentally were actions brought about by thoughts related to fear of harm through something that appeared to be beyond their control, they only listened. I asked them that if they truly believed what they said about creating reality, why they were creating the environment for the very thing that no one (in their right mind) would want to experience. To the question of why would they not put their efforts toward sharing knowledge with others and perhaps cultivating collective alternatives to mere solitary survival, the truth came out. They were secretly looking forward to the DTC, hoping that their preparations would be enough to get them through while most others perished!
In short they perceived themselves to be superior to the rest of humanity and preferred that at least most of it perish. I held back on commenting about the likelihood that they and perhaps a few others would survive unscathed, something that was supposed to extinguish the lives of around 6 billion people along with most all other life forms.
We continued a little further and I asked why they would choose a reality where they alone would live in what could best be described as a harsh existence? The answer hinged on the belief that the DTC were inevitable and it was necessary to prepare for it. I pointed out that they were living that harsh life now and for them the DTC may as well have happened, seeing as they were living in seclusion, were broke and thus relying on their storage, were off the grid and no longer a part of society etc.
The conversation and all further contact ended when I wished them an easy path and then asked what reality they were going to 'create' next for themselves; and would it be framed in singularity, multiplicity, universality or...?
May it be something other than the first option .
Personally I believe that human beings have the most control over their own perceptions; how those are received and subsequently acted upon. Perhaps that in itself IS reality.
With love, Kensho
Booker T. Washington
I've been handed the same line about giving away my power with respect to paying my taxes on time, donating to charity or other things that aren't me-centric. I'll have use the, "What power?," reply next time I get that.
I think Kensho's second observation is really on the mark. If you really believe, "the Law of Attraction," then preparing the underground shelter and hoarding supplies certainly is a huge magnet to virtually guarantee the arrival of doomsday.
Ramsters may say, "Sure, bring it on!" I don't now the proprietary instruction given out only at the ranch. What I understand is there is belief along the lines that, "Ramtha," will bring in a fleet of UFOs of his extra terrestrial friends to reform the Earth into a Shangri La just for, "Ramtha's," human friends. This would be a difficult ramtha-ism for me to offer an alternative constructive thought. How does one offer an alternative to the belief that, "Ramtha," whom they've never met in physical form nor witnessed do anything physical is going to lead UFOs they've never seen, from a planet that can't be observed, to fix the Earth in just a couple years following the cataclysm?
I also have trouble with the lack compassion of the thought it is OK for the other 5.999999999 billion human beings, plant and animal life to be obliterated while ramsters sit smug in their shelters. We're back to that, "Well, they created that fate for themselves," thing.
This is a bit off topic: but I also find it amazing that ramsters think there underground shelters, even the ones with several foot thick concrete and re-bar are going to stand up to global destruction. All one has to do is to look at what St. Helens did in 1980. I have relatives that owned property close to Spirit Lake that wound up under something like 100 feet of ash and mud. There's no way any underground shelter would have helped anybody there. All that would have happened is that it might have enabled one to suffocate to death instead of being crushed in the lahar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_cyG2dJPpc
Perhaps a good alternative contemplation to the Ramtha-type intervention would be to have those who hold that as valid, to ask themselves who has proven to be most helpful in overcoming challenges in their past. Who provided food, shelter, comfort and compassionate concern?
A current reality check might also be helpful:
The human form is soft, flesh based, is dependant upon a rather limited reference range of Ph, hydration, oxygenation and temperature for survival. Extremes of any of these are likely to bring on the inevitable. Because it also lacks a protective fur or shell coating, it is vulnerable to physical injury and infection etc as well.
Over-all the human form really is quite limited in comparison to lower animal life which has evolved to survive environmental and predatory challenges.
What human beings do have is the ability to utilize intelligence to learn from past experience. We are naked and vulnerable yes, but also highly sensitive by nature of the body that we experience and express through. From that combination it would seem that by design we are best suited to intelligent compassion for self and other.
So where does the past experience of a Ramtha-type intervention fit into the logic of relying upon such a thing for survival and life?
It doesn't...plain and simple.
In fact our memories of past experiences of helpful interventions generally return to our parents, then progress to other family members, friends and communities. That past experience might be pointed out as the 'nature of reality' that comes forward when we are suffering; and is likely to be that nature that will come forward in the future as well.
Whether we seek help from those who helped provide comfort in the past is due to intentional thought or because of a memory of past experience seems to be a mute point when the fecal matter hits the rotary device.
An interesting observation in working with the dying is that people often recall their mother or significant other and call out for them; especially if they are in pain.
For most of us, it was our mother who was there for us, on the line, every time when we were suffering and most vulnerable (as children, as adolescents going through the emotional roller coaster of life and as adults pursuing our dreams)...and that state of craving hers or another's selfless loving compassion is where we often find ourselves when all hope is lost.
That fact plays out as reality time and again.
There is the potential to suggest that it might make more sense to align one's self with and cultivate being that sort of caring and compassionate person for thebenefit of self and other, rather than hoping for an intervention from something that has not played out in physical reality; if only as a means to get someone who hopes for that sort of illusionary, self-serving intervention thinking again.
With love, Kensho
Booker T. Washington
I felt the need to share that as I am a big fan of affirmations and guiding thoughts away from the negative, from fear and violence and into realm of inner peace, service, respect and equanimity and love. That, of course, is just IMHO.
I do think those lost in fear and just plain lost in the mire that RSE has become are both traumatized and terrified and will, over time, when they are ready, reach out. It is an organic process and one that cannot be forced by others, IMO. I sat for months in my little house in Yelm after intentionally missing my required, just to be 100% sure I was doing the right thing by selling and leaving. I was, and I did. when I was ready to take the step. Blessings and love and light to all of you who are in the process or pondering being in the process.
thank you for sharing, you understand the early days as I do
So happy to hear of your experiences
Specifically it hinges on the work of Phineas Quimby who had a deep infleunce on Mary Baker Eddy and a host of neo-religionists like Dresser, the Filmore's that started Unity church, Church of Divine Science, etc.
Quimby did two things: he borrowed from the work of Anton Mesmer in an attempt to find a "mind-cure" for illness but he began his experiments at first by usinng a "medium" or psychic to intuit and transfer the information to client. Later he discovered he could dispense with the medium because he felt that the "cure" was there in the mind---all he had to do was convince the client that all is perfect and get the client to believe. Quimby actually called this "Christian science"---a phrase co-opted by Mary Baker (later Eddy) who was "cured" of a chronic backache by Quimby [late 19th century].
Recall that the 18th to 19th centuries were revolutionary in the sciences, technology and the scientific method. Secularization among the intelligentsia was de rigueur (the thing of the day) leading to revaluation of religion as superstition----Thomas Jefferson as an "enlightenment" scholar rewrote the New Testament sans miracles, eg.
For centuries many people were trying to rescue religion from this onslaught or descralization of reality. Sir Isaac Newton even seriously dabbled in alchemy all his life looking to "prove" the supernatural thru "science"....he failed.
Occulists like Robert Boyle, Eliphas Levi, and Blavatsky were positing that the occult arts were "occult sciences" and just as valid as technology. iow, religion was trying to compete with scientific method to get "results"-----the so-called "war" between science and religion emerged through fundamentalists among Christians who were reacting to Darwin. In the arts, artists turned to the "inner world" for the truth, thus you find Kandinsky using Theosophy, eg, to stimulate his "inner necessity" and the Truth in painting as abstract forms...modernism in art was born of this struggle. One of Kandinsky's primary inspirations was "Thought Forms", a 1906 tome put out by Theosophists Besant and Leadbeater with colorful illustrations of moods and energy principles that they claimed to "see" in an occult way.
Occultists always used the phrase "As Above, So Below" to reinforce this idea that thought ("heaven") can be used to manipulate what was in manifestation ("earth").
This radical division was not there in university-level studies prior to the last 2 centuries. Theology was just as rigorous as science in discusssion with no necessary division, esp since St Augustine and the 3rd ot 4rth century in Christian history.
What this boils down to is method. Spirituality among the New Age cults has fallen into pseudo-methods like C&E, decreeing, chanting, positive thinking, Tensegrity, affirmation, Eurythmy, and what amounts to casting spells to "create reality" or take power over life, the environment and the future.
There are "methods" that work in spiritual pursuits but these have nothing to do with manipulating energy and matter, which is in the realm of science. Spiritual method exists in morality, ethics, conduct, rational principles, "do unto other as you would have them do unto you", seeking elegance or beauty in math and chemistry, striking a social chord that moves emotion and raises human consciousness in music and art and film, iow, in the aesthetic realm that scientific method recognizes but finds utterly elusive. That latter also includes forms or worship that do not violate what is real, iow, prayer or devotion as communion with and not manipulation of "God."
Flms like "Glory" and "The King's Speech" have more to say about the human spirit, spirituality and dignity than anything JZ Knight ever taught. Her theater, similar to that of Elizabeth Prophet and other pseudo-gurus, is bad art with butchered science targeting the self-centered who are either naive and confused or in denial and angry about what we really need to do to flourish as human beings...I was there as one of the naive and confused in CUTland for a time...I speak from experience too...
However, many authors of the "Think Positive" school were Christians, not new agers.
And we only have our own brains to work with. But, according to Christian thought, we were created in God's image, and so, looking within makes sense. How can we know what is real? Science is about as changeable or accurate as our own perceptions.
Seems that what you are talking about is the choice of paradigms?
I am uncomfortable seeing all new agers being lumped together, along with fundamental Christians and Christian Scientists, or hearing that they are all self centred. Nor would I characterise all RSE students as such; some of them (and David has frequently said this about himself) have wanted to be a Christ so they could save the world.
As among scientists, there is much ongoing debate about the nature of reality, the nature of God, and our own natures - different schools of thought.
I think that what you believe; your perception in a sense does create your reality. And I hold that the "ripple" effect is valid - by our thoughts and actions we do effect matter and outcomes for ourselves and others.
And there is that mainstream science book I have sitting here that says that we are all just clusters of vibrating particles, and that our thoughts actually leave our "clusters" and travel forth as energy.
And if I say that sometimes I feel 'bad vibes' coming off people, does that make me a cultist? Or if I agree with the cancer treatment specialists who state that the patient's attitude is a huge factor in their outcome, does that make me a cultist?
Or if I tell a client that they choose how their inner world is made up, and that choice is going to have a tremendous impact on their outer world, am I indoctinating them?
Something I have been doing for almost 30 years and I will keep is blessing someone from the Lord God of my being to the Lord God of someone's else's being, be it animal or human.
To me it just means from my spirit to another and I have seen results in an instant.
Or how about when you stare negatively at someone and they turn around
Even a smile to a stranger effects a response
I feel I create my reality, I have too much personal proof to think anything else
There is no "casting spells" or witchcraft involved. Only blessings and gratitude and wishing all creatures dwell in peace, happiness and safety,those living, those being born, and those passing from this plane. I, personally, love starting my day this way, sending out these thoughts at first to the masses, then focusing down to those I personally know, and myself. No offense intended.
Have a wonderful day, all!
PS Just Truth, the blessing you use is the same as the Hindu greeting of "Namaste", which means, as I was taught, The God within me salutes and acknowledges the God within you." A simple method of greeting each other with mindfulness, respect and honor. It does tend to remind you to be conscious and to also bring out the best in you, as well! .
In the context of Justtruth's post.
"The law of attraction Do Thoughts Create Reality?" thread has been split into two topic threads.I like what you said, it puts you in a conscious state to create
On one of the next to last streamings, in a sober moment Ramtha said '' You could have created infinite love in this lifetime''
With all my heart, I desire consciously to create love in all walks all of life,
Justtruth's post has been moved to to our JZK/Ramtha RSE supporters debate forum.
'EMF' Message Board • View topic - Do Thoughts Create Reality?
Thank you for your support and understanding.