USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

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Ockham
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USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:28 pm

As is being discussed on delavie's blog, in France the inter-agency task force to prevent sectarian abuse known by the acronym MIVILUDES has RSE on its RADAR screen. At least six instances of Ramtha followers are known to be setting up some sort of presence around the Pic de Bugarach mountain. I am not very facile in French and/or details are a little sketchy on exactly what the ramsters are doing, but at least some underground bunkers are reported to have been constructed and hoarding of supplies is going on.

Reuters wire service picked up on the story last week, and various versions of the wire story have appeared on web sites ranging from The Daily Mail to The New York Times. Most notably, the USA news service CNN began running a version of the story on June 17 and gave top miscreant billing to Judy Knight and the RSE as purveyors of doomsday torment to the tiny mountain village of Bugarach.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-17/worl ... s=PM:WORLD (DEAD LINK)

https://www.religionnewsblog.com/23477/cults-france

https://www.religionnewsblog.com/23477/cults-france

https://www.religionnewsblog.com/23477/cults-france

ex
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by ex » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:00 am

finally it hits the international press that rse is a doomsday cult. jsr went too far with the 17 h life streaming. the timing is very good: the south africa story. rse denies involvement. the women in the barrel. rse gives a hollow respond. now Miviludes and the french coordinaters denies. jzr reached out to get money all over the world. the respond to her comes back international. she still intimidates the local press. hopefully she doesn't get away trying this with reuters or cnn.

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David McCarthy
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:12 am

So very true Ockham and ex.
Thank you for posting the link Ockham :idea:
Here is the full article...
Apocalypse prediction could spark mass suicide, French agency warns
June 17, 2011|By Catherine Clifford, CNN

The specter of a mass suicide tied to the widely predicted end of the world in December 2012 has prompted a warning from a government official in France, where people are already gathering at a place believers predict may provide the only escape from the apocalypse.
Georges Fenech, president of French government agency Miviludes, which observes sect movements and warns the public of potential risks, told CNN that he had alerted French public authorities, including the prime minister, to the issue.

"We fear that this message of fear could have serious consequences on fragile members of the French population," he said.
The small southern mountain village of Bugarach is prophesized by some to be one of the few places, if not the only place, that will survive the devastation.
According to Miviludes, settlements in the surrounding area have been established by members of the American Ramtha School of Enlightenment. The head of this presumed sect, Judy Zebra Knight, claims be in contact with Ramtha, a Lemurean warrior who fought the residents of the mythical Atlantis 35,000 years ago.
She has delivered messages about the 2012 apocalypse in front of thousands of followers in the United States, according to Miviludes.
The coordinator for the Ramtha School of Enlightenment in France, Valerie Sautereau, says that group has no apocalyptic beliefs and no link with the village of Bugarach
Suicide resulting from apocalyptic beliefs has already occurred in France in recent years. In 2002 a suicide and several suicide attempts occurred in the town of Nantes within a small circle of people who believed the end of the world was imminent.
"We know from history and experience that apocalyptic discourse can lead to tragedy," Fenech said. "This is why we have taken measures to notify police and other public authorities in order to monitor the situation."
In the late 1990s there was a series of 74 suicides in the late 1990s in France, Switzerland and Canada by followers of the Order of the Solar Temple.
"Around 500 000 French people belong to cults. They affect all kinds of people from all kinds of social backgrounds, including children." Fenech added.
There are growing concerns for the village of Bugarach, which also is known on Internet sites as an "alien garage" where extraterrestrial visitors supposedly wait beneath 4,000-foot Pic de Bugarach. Properties are being bought in surrounding isolated areas and construction of bunkers with underground tunnels and food supplies has also been noted, according to Miviludes, France's Interministerial Mission of Vigilance Against Sectarianism.
"If we see thousands of people arriving it will not be safe," Fenech said. "It's a mountainous area with dangerous mountain roads which would need to be closed
"I have visited the site. People are really worried. It's a tiny village which is receiving thousands of visitors. They hold processions, pray, leave objects. It is essential that we anticipate dangers and take precautionary measures."
He expressed concern for a "climate of fear facilitated by the Internet."
The supposed Apocalypse 2012 has already taken on global significance, with around 2.5 million websites dedicated to the phenomenon. The theories are based on interpretations of the Mayan calendar, which it is said ends on December 21, 2012. Several other astrophysical events have been predicted for this time, including an equinox alignment of the planets.
Scientists dismiss the idea.
"There are no planetary alignments in the next few decades." NASA says in a Q&A page on its website. "Earth will not cross the galactic plane in 2012, and even if these alignments were to occur, their effects on the Earth would be negligible. ... Credible scientists worldwide know of no threat associated with 2012."
The president of the French society Suicide Ecoute, Isabelle Chaumeil Gueguen, said the organization has so far received no calls "related to the apocalypse predicted for 2012."
However, she added, "it's certainly true that people who are mentally unstable can react strongly to dramatic announcements in the press. If it begins to be mentioned a lot in the media, especially on television, we can expect to have calls about it.
"People of a weak mental disposition are also much more likely to be influenced by cults, and messages spread by social networking sights can be equally dangerous."
Link
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/06 ... index.html
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Vanilla
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by Vanilla » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:06 am

Please protect all the ex students who saw thru JZ's lies and left the school.

Just because you were once a student does not mean you are still brainwashed.

I hope that ex students who left the school, after finding out it was all fake, are safe, in their reputations.

I hope no lists of students ever make it to mainstream.

People make mistakes especially when lied to, about it being a school, etc..

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David McCarthy
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Mike Wright PR letter to Dirk Vander Ploeg UFO Digest

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:35 am

Concerning Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and the French village of Bugarach
http://www.ufodigest.com/article/concer ... e-bugarach
Concerning Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and the French village of Bugarach
Submitted by Dirk Vander Ploeg on Mon, 04/02/2012 - 15:04
Publisher's Note: We received the following information by email and its publication is to correct possible erroneous facts published.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am writing to correct some misinformation in your post http://www.ufodigest.com/article/aliens ... apocalypse.

Recent articles circulating the Internet about the French village of Bugarach grossly misrepresent Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment (RSE) as having “no less than six settlements in the area surrounding Bugarach.” In fact, there are only 34 RSE students in the whole of France, and none with a Bugarach address. Secondly, in thirty years of teachings, Bugarach has never been mentioned by Ramtha or JZ Knight.

The report by the French government agency MIVILUDES incorrectly identified individuals associated with the Raelian Movement as being students of Ramtha’s School. Cult expert Susan Palmer of Concordia University says that “MIVILUDES is creating artificial emergencies to support the state-sponsored anti-cult movement.” Palmer, whose upcoming book The New Heretics of France, about the French anti-cult movement, believes MIVILUDES spends more time vilifying cults than actually researching them—“obviously trying to justify its own existence.”

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/07/05/on-suicide-watch-2/

We have contacted MIVILUDES about the error in their report.

Thanks,,

Mike
-----
Mike Wright
Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment
A Division of JZK, Inc.
Tel: 360-458-5230
2012 – The Year of Wonder!
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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David McCarthy
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:39 am

Email sent to Dirk Ploeg publisher of UFO Digest.com.
Most likely a waste of time.
David.
-------Original Message-------
From: EMF
Date: 04/04/12 11:26:35
To: publisher@ufodigest.com
Subject: Concerning Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and the French village of Bugarach

Dear Dirk,

For a more accurate assessment concerning Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and the French village of Bugarach.
I would asked Mike Wright how many students from France that have attended RSE these past ten years?
Just because they are not 'current in RSE' does not mean they are not 'RSE' followers.
This would give a more accurate assessment of 'Ramtha' devotees that have moved to, or near Bugarach.
Its a no-brainier that RSE students in this town are not going around advertising they are"Ramtha' followers either!
What you have received in fact is 'fancy PR footwork' from Mike Wright RSE Frontman for JZ Knight.
Don't let them fool you.

It has been my personal experience and speaking as a former member of RSE for over seven years,
that RSE is a dangerous and extremely deceptive doomsday cult.

Yours Sincerely,
David McCarthy
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

freemysoul
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by freemysoul » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:40 am

Way to be on top of it David! You notice how quick Mike Wright is to use the 'cult' word when it is in some way beneficial to JZ. I believe it was JZ who said people that use the word 'cult' use it to defame or slander people with its use. Mike sure was quick to throw it around to separate rse and jz from these students in France and the investigator who has uncovered these goings on. And you know as well as I do that there are far more than 34 people in France that are students of JZ's................what a load of whoohaaaa. I bet there are 34 plus French people at every event JZ has held. One minute Mike claims rse has thousands of students from every country on the planet, the next he is minimizing their involvement to fit their current dilemma. Its disgusting how utterly dishonest a group of people that prides themselves on integrity become whenever it serves their ulterior motivations: The almighty $

ex
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by ex » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:41 pm

the people in bugarach doesn't.t have to be french. look at the composite of rse students in yelm: lots of foreigners. and not all are current. through the europen uninon its easy to settle in france for other nationaleties who joined the eu. realestate is expencive in europe another reason to join together to buy a place. so there r more than a couple per dwelling i suspect. yes it bits if you wanna sell yourself big and than have to downplay because someone starts to watch you. with so much dirt on her jz just should shut up.

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by Vanilla » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:27 pm

Yes these cult busters need to justify their existence by making up stuff. Otherwise they dont exist.

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by delavie » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:38 am

How do you say "Marquer contre son camp" ?
MW scored a touchdown against his side !?

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by delavie » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:59 pm

MW talk about cult expert Susan Palmer and his book "The New Heretics of France"…

http://anonymousmontreal.blogspot.fr/20 ... tudes.html

and

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2 ... logy_N.htm

Touchdown !

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:30 am

:lol: Yes, what we would call an "own goal" in this country. It looks as though Susan Palmer and her University are as discreditable as you are, Mike Wright!

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David McCarthy
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:26 pm

Its disgusting how utterly dishonest a group of people that prides themselves on integrity become whenever it serves their ulterior motivations: The almighty $
Hi freemysoul, Yep sadly this is the truth.
It's the integrity that gets worn away at RSE, chipped away by what seems at the time the most fantastical ideals.
'The End Justifies the Means' kicks in, then its downhill all the way.... till it's almost impossible to climb out.
No reply from Dirk Ploeg, no surprise there, publications like UFO Digest.com are not so radical to 'truth' they like to portray.

David
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joe sz
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by joe sz » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:31 am

Interesting how Susan Palmer got into the mix. She's influenced by her "trade" and sociological training which is to study the "natives" without disturbing their "culture."

She has been doing a longitudinal or decade-long study on the Raelians, for example. I actually find some of her research useful, if for nothing else, how much control a cult can exert legally over a scholar who may see or find some things that warrant criminal investigation but won't report anything due to potentially losing open access to study the cult or sect further. Nevertheless, Palmer and her "apologetic" ilk in sociology, will uncover and report some things that inadvertantly help me a lot in exit counseling.

I am reviewing a new book now by this "clique" among 22 of these scholars called "Violence and New Religious Movements" (ed. J. Lewis, 2011). Palmer is not among the authors in this book, however. Of course, Peoples Temple, Branch Davidians and Heavens Gate are mentioned. Ramtha is not mentioned at all, but CUT was in passing reference. Neither is MOVE of Philadelphia mentioned, nor the Chung Moo/Master Kim cult and many other cults that have had violent episodes either done by them or to them. The mayhem in RSE field work running at one another blindfolded should have easily qualified, for one thing. The authors tend to attack the so called "anti-cult network" as well as most ex-member testimonies and the last chapter really slams violence by "deprogrammers." Yours truly was not mentioned ;-)

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David McCarthy
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:44 am

Interesting how Susan Palmer got into the mix. She's influenced by her "trade" and sociological training which is to study the "natives" without disturbing their "culture."
Hi Joe, I can see Susan Palmer making such an excuse for not taking a moral/ethical stand, but what do you think is her true motivation?
I am constantly coming across people like this with seemingly high IQ but no backbone..
Is it she just doesn't give a damn and hides behind intellectualisms so long she gets published?
J. Gordon Melton comes to mind.

David

Cult apologist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_apologist
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joe sz
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by joe sz » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:30 pm

I am constantly coming across people like this with seemingly high IQ but no backbone..
Is it she just doesn't give a damn and hides behind intellectualisms so long she gets published?
J. Gordon Melton comes to mind.
david
there is no clear answer as to motivation among scholars. Obviously, to some degree they have to love their field and are interested in what makes these movements tick. But access is crucial, so being critical is counterproductive unless they are finished with that "cult" and can make a compelling summary argument as to ethics, harm, etc.
One of the best examples of a sholar studying a cult was in Laurence Veysey,1973: The Communal Experience: Anarchist and Mystical Countercultures in America. Veysey offers a harsh critique at the end of his 121 page chapter on the Synergia ranch cult after living/studying with them openly in 1971 as a participant-observer, exposed the leader Johnny Dolphin Allen as a psychopath. This same Synergia movement 20 years later created the Biosphere2 debacle in AZ in the early 1990s. I went down to try to exit counsel one of the 8 Biospherians the day before she went into the thing in 1991--unsuccessful, as you could imagine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

Palmer or Melton have never been so objective or insightful as Veysey was, imo. Veysey, of course, had no agenda to counter an "Anti-Cult Movement" which seems to affect and muddle Palmer, Melton, et al as if the purported ACM they despise were "Red China".
In some cases, i think the scholar has "gone native" to the extent of sympathy for new religions struggling through early phases of development. eg, Falun Dafa gets a lot of sypmathetic support from these scholars because a bigger more powerful 'cultlike' regime, Red China, has come down hard on Falun members, imprisoned and persecuted many unnecessarily, often on trumped up charges.
On the other hand, if someone I knew was interested in joining Falun, I have a host of arguements why NOT to join. for one thing, Li Hongzhi, the founder is a nutcase grandiose new age guru who has been hiding in NY state.
There should be a revolution in your thinking. Without television sets, people would have them in their foreheads, and they could watch anything they want to see. they would also have supernormal abilities. Without trains and planes, people would be able to levitate into the air from where they sit, without using an elevator. It [Falun] would bring a different state of societal development....the flying saucers of extraterrestrials can travel back and forth at an inconceivable speed and become large or small. they have taken another alternative method of development, which is another scientific approach.
Zhuan Falun, p 302 (Li Hongzhi, Fairwinds Press, 2001)

So Falun Dafa is very much like RSE, a fantasy movement to increase superpowers by using "chi' techniques, and then take over the planet.

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David McCarthy
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:05 pm

As always..Great analysis Joe.. :idea:
I guess it boils down to moral standing does not increase with a higher IQ,
And not to mistake the two for the same.
That wisdom in its true light is far more subtle than cleverness.
The problem is with RSE that I was fooled into believing JZ Knights brilliant performance of "Ramtha' as the ultimate wisdom,
only to realize it was all show business junk was mind shattering.

Again..Thanks for your insights Joe :idea:

David
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justwow
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by justwow » Thu May 17, 2012 9:55 pm

There appears to be another 'correction' to the Miviludes story, in particular the last paragraph which states that RSE is not about doomsday events..
Talk about selective memory...

From Ramtha.com news articles:
Corrections to misconceptions in the popular media about RSE
Recent media articles about the French village of Bugarach serving as a landing spot for UFOs that mention Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (RSE) are completely inaccurate and misrepresent the School and the students.

Specifically, a report inaccurately stated that RSE had "no less than six settlements in the area surrounding Bugarach." In fact, at present there are only 34 students in France involved in RSE programs, and none of them have a Bugarach address. There is no "settlement." In thirty years of teachings, Bugarach has never been mentioned by Ramtha or JZ Knight.

The report by the French government agency MIVILUDES incorrectly identified individuals associated with the Raelian Movement as being students of Ramtha's School. Cult expert Susan Palmer of Concordia University says that "MIVILUDES is creating artificial emergencies to support the state-sponsored anticult movement." Palmer, whose upcoming book The New Heretics of France, about the French anticult movement, believes MIVILUDES spends more time vilifying cults than actually researching them—"obviously trying to justify its own existence."

There is no "Doomsday" scenario for 2012 or any other year for RSE students. RSE has consistently argued against the 2012 end-of-the-world belief. For example, in the book The Last Waltz of the Tyrants, originally released in 1989, Ramtha states, "By the year 2042 the Earth will look again like the times that I knew it, with lush green growth and life and the bluest skies and cleanest water. That is its destiny."

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by justwow » Thu May 17, 2012 10:49 pm

oh, and one more thing re: the above Ramtha 'news' article...it was signed by Rob Wynne at Wynne PR: http://wynnepr.com/about.php (DEAD LINK)

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu May 17, 2012 11:38 pm

Thank you for the update justwow,
Classic attempt at damage control by Judith by using outsiders who are clueless to the truth of RSE, but more importantly don't give a damn.
Robert Wynne is a communications executive with more than 20 years experience in strategic marketing........
Wynne PR | Public relations for the digital world
http://wynnepr.com/about.php
(DEAD LINKS)
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ex
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by ex » Fri May 18, 2012 2:09 pm

so big deal someone mixed some cults up. no reason to downplay one of them. whats jz reason of existence?
i assume thats jzs new pr firm. i wonder when she plays the my best friend selma card again. anyone knows if selma is knighted [by the french government] by now? selmas involvement with rse is listed as an academic achievement [on wiki] not as the involvement in a cult. i wonder how carefully selmas pr guys r.

Ockham
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by Ockham » Sun May 20, 2012 4:16 am

Next thing you know RSE / JZK Inc.'s puppet PR press agent will be issuing a statement that no RSE participants have ever built underground shelters and hoarded supplies in Thurston County, Washington. RSE has never thought anything about an impending depopulation event.

Funny thing about puppets: they have wooden noses that grow when they tell lies.

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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by Ockham » Sun May 20, 2012 3:26 pm

That quote of the hypothetical public relations manager was supposed to read, "RSE has never taught anything about an impending depopulation event."

Apologies for the typograhical error.

Also, of course, that was completely tongue-in-cheek. Everybody knows RSE taught TDTC and the need to dig UGs for decades.

ex
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Re: USA news outlet picks up on MIVILUDES story

Unread post by ex » Sun May 20, 2012 4:04 pm

what always blows me away is that behind closed doors r often taught the opposite which get stated in press releases. if this is even just to keep the image of res up and the rest of the world are dummies who cant handel the rse truth, students should get the deceit. anyone knows how aware students are? about the simons interview in south africa? or this press release?

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