Can't you imagine how much fun 168 hours of double-talk, pseudo-science, muddled pop psychology and general nonsense will be - and all for only $1,100 USD? I wonder how many takers she'll get?
Just think what one could manifest, say if one instead donated that money to a local food bank or homeless shelter instead of spending it, as a hapless consumer that Judy likes chide us for being, on the RSE!
Guys. I was so far with my boyfriend, ready to throw in the towel. Last night he sat me down and told me if I loved him I would allow him to be with his teacher and he is going to an event. I told him he was not. I said I will spend your money before you go. He said its being gifted to him.
I then reminded him, of how he was excommunicated, how his best friend was humiliated and lost his wife, how his other friend got kicked out of the school, after years of giving all his money and going to every event, even the $5000 dinners. How the best students get slammed and accused of lying and cheating by the ram.
Does he really want to be one of judy's servants.
I then went on to tell him, how talented he was. He IS a genius! But how the school stunts people..and does he want to be one of those people, who die, not one of them healed themselves, not one..or face down in a garbage can after years of poverty and lonliness, giving all their money to the school, which gives the students nothing back.
He then said.. OK. BUT WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG? WHAT IF RAMTHA IS REAL< AND THE DAYS TO COME DO COME< I WILL TELL YOU I TOLD YOU SO> WHAT WILL WE DO THEN?
I said, THEY ARE NOT COMING> channeling isnt real. All this stuff about aliens is "psychic phenomenon" you have been hearing about all your life. So you think is real. All the science is pseudo science.
He then said that a scientist is going to be a guest of the school soon, a real one.
guys its soo sad. I want my love. I want him.
His mother told me she has been waiting for her son to come back to her all her life from this Ramtha character and her church back home, the entire church prays for him to get out of this cult. Now I am not in any church, I have given up with religion.
I got into an argument with a friend, who doesnt believe in Ramtha- but believes in the school and her experiences. I am sick and tired of being told WHAT I DONT UNDERTSTAND about the whoile Ramtah experience.
People telling me they saw fireworks when they had blindfolds on so that is proof that ramtha is real ITS SUCH BS
I am so angry again.
But I didnt give up. All night I told my boyfriend he was better and how much I love him and he can find god in his kids. I know he has a spiritual hole that needs filling. I know he wants the answers to what is on the other side and what happens to you when you die...but that doesnt give people the right to fool you, because the need for that is so strong in people. What judy is doing is beyond evil to me.
I mean that with my heart, The lives she has destoryed. The minds the school has destroyed. I am so emotional guys. I want my love. He is so smart and he can be somebody.
We can be happy. He can be successful. He can find joy. Not as one of Judy's minions. The school is BS it is not a school it is a cult!
But to be fair, He has not gone to an event or seen a stream and he lied to his student friends about seeing streams and being current. So that is good news.
but remember, u cant control someone else. and u should not try to..it is a great place for fostering resentment. i know. i came from that myself.
just love him. share your truth but allow him his. i dont think rse or anything like that is the answer for anyone. those answers always come from within self. only he has his answers. only you have yours.
battle only creates more battles. like begets like.
i feel for you.
dont lose yourself or alienate him in the process of all of this.
u r in my heartfelt prayers.
not that I have THE answer, but I learned long ago that for intervention to work, the thinking mind has to be engaged. Most often when skeptics argue with new agers, skeptics come across as "having the answer" or the disconfirmatiom and often argue through conclusions.
It is like punishing a kid for not learning the alphabet when all you tell them is how it begins with ABC and ends with XYZ. The kid does not have the information in his brain to work with.
In exit cousneling, i have to have
1. permission from the client to keep discussing
2. enough interest from the client to parse every issue.
3. patience enough to follow tangential and circular reasoning and gently stretch it
4. almost an encyclopedic knowledge of the territory with releveant info to keep the discussion going.
5. have a good idea where I am going with it
what this does is exercise the "monkey mind" or pre-frontal cortex [the area of decision making and human personality].
In successful cases, it has taken me with help from 20 to 60 hours of fruitful marathon exchanges to see the prefrontal area emerge as functional and dominant enough to see the harm in cult affiliation and choose to leave it for good. Cult constriction melts away as the new thought process gains in relevence.
Spouses, lovers, family members and close friends normally have no success at this because of role confusion in the cult member's mind that sees the partner/friend as just that and not an "expert" in the field. This is why in counseling, whether in law, medicine, mental health, or governance, one should never presume to counsel/educate a family member or close friend. Children are different, of course. [Listening and arguing are not counseling or educating, but listening and arguing can have a good effect at times.]
A new book 'Incognito' by neurologist David Eagleman examines this problem calling these parts of the brain "rivals". The friend/family role will "outrival" the counseling/expert role no matter what you know about the cult.
I hope you and your love can work it out, hang in there with him. It is only a matter of time and it could be sooner than you think.
I thought of you as I read a story about an actor and on the bottom it showed a phone number, from the rag The Sun, saying ''Have a Story"
Wow!!!!! wouldn't the 17 hour event be some thing to publish??????????????????
I can understand your boyfriend and you both at the same time, because I have been both, in and out and boy, when you are IN, it is hard to see anything else.
His time coming out could really be soon, it has been a long journey for me, but when I decided not to follow or even listen, the decision was in a moment.
I am set up very well for the DTCome and have no regrets about it, through my own research and lots of sources, I found it was wise to store food, water and I am NOT in Yelm, but in my own paradise in the country which is truly my desire, so maybe you can support that desire in your boyfriend and that might calm him.
My heart goes out to go both
It is good to hear from you again, but painful to know why you're back.
That's a great article from Joe; superb intellect! I wouldn't dare to try to add a comment to that. Vanilla, when you write, you have great insight of RSE and you have a deep knowledge of the RSE material. If anybody can engage your BF to rational consideration of the validity of RSE, you're for sure God's pick for the job.
General (perhaps silly) thoughts, some likely not applicable to Vanilla's situation:
Ultimatum or drawing a line in the sand over the belief is a bad bargaining strategy. That's a dare to the other party to cross the line. Odds usually favor the other party taking the dare.
Depending on how at-odds your two belief structures are, perhaps you can compromise with one in the school and the other out - so be it! One of my pretty good friends is a ramster, but doesn't live in Yelm. We still get along, but keep RSE off the table when we're together. A deeply involved ramster and non ramster in a marriage might be just too much to bear, but just a thought...
The money thing is a potential big issue. RSE costs a lot. If you're just starting a family, you need to provide well for the kid(s) and put funds aside for their future education. It is easy to spend $5,000 or more per person each year on RSE to, "stay current." Also doing the disciplines assiduously may not be conducive to holding down a steady job due to the time commitment the disciplines require. That in turn could foster resentment in the partner that is left to be the wage earner and general care taker of the home.
Try pinching your BF on the cheek unexpectedly and very uncomfortably. If he yells a profanity ask him why he's swearing. Why should he be angry? Didn't he create that reality? That could be the start of an interesting conversation on whether there is objective reality that subsumes us all or whether we're manifesting our own reality bubbles.
See if you can get Vera Stanley Alder's book, From the Mundane to the Magnificent. Study the text together to see the elements that JZ Knight plagiarized. If, “Ramtha,” reveals exclusive gnostic informaion only through JZ Knight, then how could Vera Stanley Alder have written almost the same thing years before?
Read about how James Randi created the channel, "Carlos," out of thin air. Randi has a really cool video documenting Carlos on Youtube. Gee, who else, maybe somebody that lives in Yelm, manipulates the media and the public like that?
Perhaps you can arrange for the two of you to spend some time in a volunteer organization such as a homeless shelter. That's a good place to see people that are thankful to get the help they need and to ponder whther the unfortunate people would willingly manifest such a reality. Volunteering at a nursing home is an eye opener too - would those residents really manifest that? These venues are good places to illustrate whether or not the concept of allowing makes sense. Just spending a few hours watching what's going on in a emergency room in the middle of the night at a busy downtown hospital could provide a major wake-up.
Cook a nice meal for yourself and enjoy it for yourself without offering to share any with the BF. If he protests, explain he must have created the reality where he doesn't get fed; must be what he wants - so be it! Let the BF figure out how to manifest his meals. Make sue he's always allowed to manifest doing his own laundry too - for sure!
You state that you would not attempt to add to Joe's analysis of the situation, yet you are busy with ideas for Vanilla which totally contradict everything that Joe has said.
I am speaking to you as a retired psychologist/psychotherapist who can concur with everything that Joe has said, and also as a survivor of a cult. I would like to point out to you what would have happened if, whilst I was a member of that cult, any of the strategies which you suggest had been applied to me by family members, in order to convince me of how mistaken I was:
Well, nobody did draw a line in the sand on the side of my family. That was done by the cult, which became totally unacceptable to me, so my family won, in that respect.
Money: well, the organisation I belonged to adhered more to ideas of spiritual truths not being about money, so, until things started going awry, (which they later did), money was not a real issue. So I guess I have to go further to really make my point.
If my husband/partner had pinched me on the cheek to prove the point that this was something I had 'manifested', he was likely to have been smacked back. I would have assessed that he was trying to be 'too literal', and have been annoyed - more evidence that he 'understood nothing about where I was coming from'.
No amount of alternative sources of information, which might have been indicative of plaigarism, would have made much difference, if presented by my family. I would have perceived family members as being merely 'destructive' and trying to undermine 'the Truth.'
Volunteer organisations? I would have been very happy to help, but would have assessed that the people requiring help had somehow earned their situation, or chosen it, with regard to what may have happened to them in a former incarnation.
If my husband had started 'playing games' with me, such as saying,'Well, you don't get this because obviously you didn't (mentally) create the situation, or 'manifest' it'", he would simply have annoyed me. I would have seen through this strategy straight away, as would Vanilla's boyfriend. This guy would see the strategy as childish and stupid and missing the point of his beliefs entirely, just as I would have done. In fact, I thought my husband to be stupid on many, many occasions. Of course, he was far from that. The fact that he was always 'missing the point' from my perspective was hardly down to him. Oh, yes, and don't forget that I was more than capable of 'manifesting, my own meals, just as he was.
RSE openly promotes simply dissmissing anyone who looks critically (questions) what is promoted there as 'destined to die, failures at living and ignorant of reality'; and not worth the bother. I do recall the Ramtha character giving a whole discourse on how our problems always have to do with relationships with other people, so it is best to just end any that pose a problem...and how true masters have no problems because they do not form relationships with the ignorant or engage in lowly human emotions.
QUOTE: "No amount of alternative sources of information, which might have been indicative of plaigarism, would have made much difference..."
In RSE such a thing would be explained away so easily by followers, for in Ramtha-land it is promoted that Ramtha is a timelss, all-knowing, powerful god-entity.
I can honestly say that with little effort on my part, the explaination with respect to plagerism from me while I was an RSE follower would go something like this:
'Ramtha transcends time, space and mass; and it was Ramtha that deposited that information into the mind of the person who presented it so that it would come through for those in that time. If anyone is guity of plagerism, it is the one who claims to have developed the information as original thought. It was Ramtha that was the one who participated in the creation of Jeshua ben Joseph's (Jesus Christ's) soul and taught him how to be a master after all.'
How does one begin to debate in a helpful way with one that is determined or trained to hold onto that sort of delusion?
It really does seem that there has to be some sort of desire from the cult follower to see something other than the beliefs that they are/have become.
Its a terrible situation for everyone involved; the follower, their family and friends....perhaps in the end, even for the cult and its leader.
With love, Kensho
Booker T. Washington
I just realized that RSE's use of the word 'master' and how they define it is actually more correctly termed 'sociopath'...and this is what RSE promotes as being the ulitmate aspiration and goal for its followers!
How did I not see that before? See? Even some three years after leaving RSE, there are still some blind spots to what really goes on there. It truly is a long road back .
With love, Kensho
Booker T. Washington
There is reason to believe that JZ may, indeed, be inculcating people (especially the 'hardliners') with ideas which are purely sociopathic. It is such a pity that there may be friends of these 'RSE 'hardliners' who are outside of RSE, and yet who remain oblivious to this, and continue to expound the 'impeccablity' of their RSE loved-ones.