ramtha and gay culture

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joe sz
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ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by joe sz » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:30 am

jz could learn something from this anti-gay group that finally disbanded :idea:

After 37 Years of Trying to Change People’s Sexual Orientation, Group Is to Disband

New York Times, June 20, 2013

By Ian Lovett



IRVINE, Calif. — For 37 years, Exodus International was the leading beacon of the “ex gay” movement, which maintained that gay men and lesbians could change their sexual orientation through prayer and psychotherapy.



But on the opening night of the group’s 38th annual conference here, Exodus International announced that the organization would disband, amid growing skepticism among its top officials and board members that sexual attractions can be changed.

For the past year, the group’s president, Alan Chambers, has been increasingly vocal in proclaiming that therapy could not change a person’s sexual orientation. In a statement posted Wednesday on the group’s Web site, he cited a recent letter he had written to gay men and lesbians.

“I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced,” he said in the letter. “I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents.”

In an interview on Thursday on the campus of Concordia University Irvine, Mr. Chambers said that he believed Exodus International had helped many Christians with same-sex attractions, including himself. But, he added: “Any good we could do in the future would be greatly overshadowed by the real stories of trauma and real stories of shame. So we decided, we can’t do anything but close this down. We can’t just change our name or change our mission.”

The closing of Exodus International signals a major upheaval for the ex-gay movement, which has been the target of increasing criticism.

Professional associations have denounced its focus on reparative therapy to “cure” homosexuality as not only ineffective but potentially harmful. At the same time, polls have shown a rising number of Americans are more accepting of homosexuality and approving of gay marriage. Last year, California banned gay conversion therapies for minors, although a legal challenge is pending.

Still, as Exodus has backed away from efforts to cure homosexuality, other conservative Christian groups have moved to fill the void, and have continued to assert that homosexuality is not innate but an immoral choice.

Since last year, when Mr. Chambers — who gave up same-sex relationships to marry a woman — announced that he no longer believed homosexuality could be cured, Exodus’s fund-raising has dwindled, officials conceded. Some affiliated ministries and churches have also cut ties with the organization.

The Restored Hope Network, which was founded last year after Mr. Chambers’s announcement, will hold its own conference this weekend in Oklahoma, competing with the annual Exodus conference.

Andrew Comiskey, a Restored Hope board member, wrote on Twitter, “How merciful of God to shut down Exodus, which under Alan Chambers leadership had completely veered off the course of its mission.” The Restored Hope Network did not respond to requests for comment.

Aaron Bitzer, a plaintiff in the lawsuit challenging California’s ban on gay conversion therapy, said that Exodus’s closing would do nothing to diminish his faith that such treatment can work, as he said it had for him. A Christian who said he had been attracted to men all his life, he still hoped to one day marry a woman.

“Will the orientation change completely? I don’t know,” Mr. Bitzer, 36, said. “I don’t think any organization should ever promise 100 percent change. But I have noticed changes in myself. I am satisfied with what I’ve experienced so far with reparative therapy.”

Exodus officials said they did not know exactly when the organization would be shut down. The board members plan to start a new ministry whose doors will be open to everyone, including openly gay members, Mr. Chambers said. They are setting up a Web site called reducefear.org.

Many gay rights advocates applauded Exodus’s closing, as well as Mr. Chambers’s apology to gays and lesbians.

“This is an earthquake that changes everything,” said Wayne Besen, director of Truth Wins Out, a group that rebuts what it considers misinformation about gay men and lesbians. “This is like McDonald’s shutting down and saying they reject hamburgers. It really highlights the futility of trying to change your sexuality.”

Yet Mr. Besen remained critical of the views expressed by Mr. Chambers, who has said he still believes that acting on homosexual desires is not condoned by Scripture. Mr. Chambers said he would not push his personal belief on others, but several other Exodus officials, at least, shared his view.

Julie Rodgers, 27, said she came to Exodus 10 years ago, hoping to rid herself of same-sex attractions. Speaking on the lawn of the Concordia University campus where she was one of about 250 attending the Exodus conference, she said she no longer believed her attractions could be changed, nor was she willing to date women.

“Right now, that means a call to singleness,” she said. “In the future, I’ll trust the Lord.”

Robbie Brown contributed reporting from Atlanta.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/us/gr ... h_20130621

Lost in Space
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:49 am

While not disbanding, RSE has embraced a less critical approach to gayness from what I can gather. They have stated that at least one of their teachers is openly gay. I don't know how that is reconciled in the minds of students with what has gone before, although I believe even in the olden days gay people were said to have been the opposite gender in a past life (? does somebody remember this, believe I read that here) which would mean that they are not simply choosing to be gay.
I marvel at the idea that gayness is a choice like what colour socks to wear, in view of the fact that for Christian gays it seems obvious that they are taking the harder path and one which is believed to exclude them from God's grace, and for other gay people not of a religious bent they still face intolerance from some segments of the population at large.

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David McCarthy
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:34 am

While not disbanding, RSE has embraced a less critical approach to gayness from what I can gather. They have stated that at least one of their teachers is openly gay.
Hi LIS,
A less critical approach than what? :-? JZK/R's attacks on the RSE gay community has been diabolical.
Examples JZK's homophobia and fracturing the minds of gay RSE students have been documented and posted on EMF.
I will direct you to those links ASAP.

David.

Homophobia - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Lost in Space
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:05 pm

A less critical approach than they used to display was what I meant, David. Sure, cite examples and links if you like.

Ockham
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:33 pm

JZK, Inc./RSE, Judy Knight and the instructors seem to have a track record of appearing to say one thing and doing another. Judy was married to Jeff Knight who was reportedly gay / bisexual. I don't think it would be accurate to categorize the Jeff Knight relationship as a display of tolerance towards gay people because some of the most vociferous apparently anti gay rhetoric out of RSE was after Jeff Knight. I am a bit surprised RSE has an instructor that is said to be publicly known to be gay. Still, I am not convinced that is a bell weather of a trend towards a note tolerant attitude.

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David McCarthy
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:31 am

Hi L.I.S, everyone...

When I first arrived at RSE (circa 1989) it me puzzled why were there so many gay students ? it seemed most RSE staff members were gay also.
It was explained to me that 'Ramtha' held gays in the highest spiritual esteem because they were advanced students who dared to live a previous incarnation as the opposite gender,
it all seemed to make sense at the time :oops:
Looking back now I believe that it was JZK's cross-dressing transgender 'Ramtha' show that attracted a disproportional amount of gays to RSE,
and still does.
What I found very hard to handle was the meanness of Gay staff members taking delight in powertripping and ordering students around.
Back in 1990 I became close friends with David York an openly gay man and hardcore student who later died of aids.
I asked him why didn't he ask 'Ramtha' to heal him? he cried telling me he begged 'Ramtha' to heal him and was told he was not ready :-?
I held his hands when he drew his last breath.
JZK's 'New Age' gay bashing is all about divide, confuse and conquer...JZK-R's gay bashing started around 1994 I think?.
Using the word 'Gay' or 'Homosexual' in our search engine flags numerous accounts of JZK-R's gay bashing ...
Here are some links on this topic thread Re: >'ramtha and gay culture'.

David

Related:

'I know that in the mid nineties Ramtha said that all gays were capable of molesting so not to have them around your children. Also that if you were gay it was because you had the soul of the opposite sex.'
(EMF) Online Forum • View topic - Ramtha didn't allow homosexuals to be homosexuals
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1342&p=10477&hilit=Gay#p10477

'Scamtha would frequently publically humiliate Pavel over his homosexual fantasies, in the name of the truth teachings'
'I hope, if he is gay, that he can find a way to move past the sexual shaming that went on at the Ranch. '

(EMF) Online Forum • View topic - Jzr threating paulvo's wife anyone remember this?
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1888&p=14830&hilit ... ual#p14830

'yes you mention the false moral of rse. Ridiculing people about fantasies or being homosexual.'
(EMF) Online Forum • Search
search.php?keywords=homosexual&terms=al ... mit=Search


'ramtha) take on it was that if you were a homosexual, it was because one of your parents was having homosexual thoughts at the time of conception.'
(EMF) Online Forum • View topic - Ramtha's crazy baby science
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1354&p=10578&hilit ... ual#p10578

'Ramtha used to try to marry homosexuals to straight people.'
(EMF) Online Forum • Search
search.php?keywords=homosexual&terms=al ... mit=Search

Cross-dressing - Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing

LKL - Celebrities Speak Out On Gay Bullying - Pt. 1/4 - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnZoERp-T24
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Lost in Space
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:27 am

I am not sure why that link to the really good LKL show with Tim Gunn and all is included, although I did like seeing it again.
I think with that you have highlighted the fact that if gay bashing went on at RSE it was little different from the attitude of substantial portions of the general public. I am not saying I think it's okay, mind you, just typical. I would expect better things from an 'enlightened master'.

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David McCarthy
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:50 am

Thanks L.I.S

abuse (bashings) comes in many shapes and forms at RSE...
Be students gay or heterosexual... everyone eventualy gets targeted for a psychological bashing from the 'Lord God Ramtha'...
The more 'advanced' students take great pride and place when 'Ramtha' abuses them directly.. :-?
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Rooster
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Re: ramtha and gay culture

Unread post by Rooster » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:49 am

The abuse on the gay culture was just horrible. J.Z AKA RAMTHA made a mockery of them. The things that were said about them and the public displays were just sad.

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