Tahoma Terra Claims RSE is Overtappintg Water Supply

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California Dreamin'
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Tahoma Terra Claims RSE is Overtappintg Water Supply

Unread post by California Dreamin' »

Tahoma Terra claims RSE is overtapping water supply
Tahoma Terra developers came out swinging this week with allegations that JZ Knight?s water system is not in compliance and could pose a public health risk.
Posted 12 Sep 2008. E-mail this article to a friend.
By Megan Hansen
Nisqually Valley News

Tahoma Terra developers came out swinging this week with allegations that JZ Knight?s water system is not in compliance and could pose a public health risk.

Developers Doug Bloom and Steve Chamberlain sent a letter to Denise Clifford, director of the state Department of Health Southwest Drinking Water Operations.

?We are asking the Department of Health to look into (Knight?s) water system,? Bloom said Wednesday. ?We don?t believe they are in compliance.?

In the letter, Bloom and Chamberlain point out discrepancies in their system and call for a down-graded permit status, which could potentially shut Ramtha School of Enlightenment operations down temporarily.

Representatives for Knight failed to return calls Wednesday.

?We are concerned that the high standard we are required to meet is not being required for another water system in the area, Zebras Aqueos Substance Water System,? Bloom and Chamberlain said in their letter.

The Zebras Aqueos system serves the public on Knight?s property and the businesses she operates there.

?The current (Water Facilities Inventory) on record with DOH identifies there are upwards of 10,000 temporary and transient users in a 30-day time frame each month and a constant 50 regular non-residential users each 30 days per month in addition to the one residential connection,? the letter said.

?By their own self-assessment, they are far exceeding their approved capacity.?

?Not only are the number of attendees not consistently represented in official governing documents, it also appears that the system has exceeded its water system capacity, including its water rights, and continues to do so.?

Currently, Knight is fighting the approval of five developments in Yelm, including Tahoma Terra. She is arguing that the City of Yelm does not have enough water rights to accommodate the growth.

Throughout that battle, Knight and her companion, James Flick, have argued that development in Tahoma Terra has impeded flow to Thompson Creek and that the developers violated the 100-foot setback.

?They have been accusing us of not being in compliance to state code,? Bloom said. ?And we have been proving, in court, that we are.?

?Well, we started looking into their system.?

Bloom and Chamberlain included an aerial photo of Knight?s property, which they claim shows ?apparent violations of various state and county laws, i.e. buffer incursions by vehicles and people and buildings, unpermitted stream crossings by both fences and roads.?

The photo shows hundreds of vehicles and tents abutting Thompson Creek, which flows through Knight?s school.

Beyond the assertion that she has exceeded water capacity, Bloom and Chamberlain say Knight is not properly maintaining her water system.

?In addition to the obvious ?exceedance? of the approved system capacity and lack of water system planning documents, there are several previously documented system deficiencies that put the public at significant risk,? the letter claims.

?Only minimum coliform monitoring of one sample per month is performed and only on one of the sources available to the public.?

?The distribution system is largely undocumented, and unmonitored sources cannot be ensured to be absolutely separated.?

Bloom and Chamberlain say in the letter that Knight?s water system should be downgraded to ?red? operating permit status and adequate planning and system improvements should be required.

A red operating status could possibly shut Knight?s business operations down until the system is fixed, Bloom said.

?We?re compliant, we think they should be too,? Bloom said.

?That?s all we?re asking.?
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Good for them, demanding this investigation !

I can't tell you how many times I was at an event and we were told DO NOT DRINK THE WATER !!! We'd even be released from an event, at times, to go replenish our water bottles so we had water.

The word on the Ramster-fanatic street is that Ramtha keeps the water on the ranch, flowing and clear. "He" has even talked about how he's got it all under control. Uh huh.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that she has by passed compliance regulations ! We're talking about a woman who boldly stated she doesn't have a DRIVER'S LICENSE because she doesn't manifest that she'll get caught withOUT one ! I heard it, IN audience, with my own ears along with a bunch of other people. She can't deny it, unless she lies.

Where's the cops ?
journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Well what do you know......
They must have read my discussion with Steve with regard to the water right feud on his "Yelm Community Blog." posted in the spring. ( I know, it does not necessarily mean that is the way it happened, but I would like to think so).

And so, Steve Kiein created the knowledge for Terra.

**CORRECTION**

EDIT BY JTR 9/25/08

I RECEIVED AN E-MAIL FROM STEVE KLEIN ASKING ME TO CORRECT MY STATEMENT BELOW WITH REGARD TO MY POSTING ON HIS BLOG.

IT IS PUBLISHED NOW AND MR. KLEIN CLAIMS TO HAVE PUBLISHED IT WHEN SENT.

THE COMMENT BELOW ACTUALLY REFERS TO ANOTHER POST WHICH HE DID NOT PUBLISH, MY MAY 22ND,2008 POSTING WITH REGARD TO HIS ARTICLE ON JEFF ADAMS, 0CT. 31ST, 2007 https://yelmcommunity.org (search article date) AND WHILE WORKING FROM NOTES, I INADVERTANTLY COPIED AND PASTED A PORTION OF MY NOTES FOR INCLUSION IN MY POST HERE.

MY APOLOGIES TO MR. KLEIN AND SHOULD HE DECIDE TO POST MY MAY 22ND, 2008 RESPONSE IN ITS ENTIERTY AT A LATER DATE, WHEN HE INFORMS ME THIS HAS BEEN DONE, I WILL ACKNOWLAGE THAT HERE ON EMF ALSO.

THE FULL CONTENTS OF THAT POST CAN BE VIEWED HERE:
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=175

IT IS DATED MAY 22ND, 2008 AND IS IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THE LAND USE DISCUSSION.

?You Know, I just searched his site and did not find my post, in the copy on the EMF site I mention it as being unpublished which now that I think of it He did NOT publish it, I guess the Queen Bee (Bees have stripes like Zebras too) would not permit it, now maybe we know why. But he still created it.... ?

Here is the excerpt, the whole thing can be found at the EMF link below:


JTR:
......I think it might be fair to suggest that a large part of the increase during the 1990-2000 period was due in large part to the number of people who moved to Yelm to be closer to RSE as well as being in a purported safe, protected environment as the big dude had been predicting all sort of cataclysms as well as dooms day scenarios and that Yelm was the ?safe place to be? (How would that make sense if now there is the fear of there not being enough water to go around???)


You know, thinking about it and after reading your article on the economic impact the population of the school has in the community (by the way, I would hazard a guess that at least 75% of all out of town student $?s get spent towards events and JZK inc. operated entities.), I did some quick math on the effects of water usage using the numbers you provided and figuring the average water usage per capita at being 50 gallons per day which I would think are probably conservative.

At that rate, the whole city of Yelm uses approx. (@ the 50 gal per day per capita rate) approx. 88,421,250 gal per year. The new units (given an average household of 2.67) would use approx. 27,677,950-gal. Per year. This is a substantial increase (over 30%) to the estimated annual usage. However, when you view in terms of how much the Yelm reclamation expansion saves per year, it is only a bit less then a 10th of that.


In addition, if you figure that each RSE student spends a total of 25 days per year @ 50 gal per day that amounts to 6,778,625 gal per year. Remember that quite a few of these are not even city residents. They drink and use the water that is paid for by the public through taxes and bonds while spending the greater balance of their disposable income @RSE or, RSE related enterprises....
..
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
journeythroughramthaland
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oops!

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

forgot to post the link at the bottom.

http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=175
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

So, that "fence" in the middle of the creek, where so many tripped and fell on rocks or worse, isn't permitted to be there, smack in the middle of a creek? While I was there, I remember another long-time student telling me that RSE had tried to change the route of the creek. Ooops. Is that alowed?

The water problem is just the tip of the iceburg. What about the overfilled Great Hall, over capacity-people sitting anywhere they can almost on top of one another when a beginners' or other event is opened up to all of the current students not at the current event? You have long lines of people paying, what, at least $50 a head to get inside, one side of the building is taped off, and long lines getting inside. Once inside, it's obvious to one not entranced, there is a HUGE fire hazard. People step on other people, and imo, it's dangerous. Doesn't the town have a fire marshall? Or do they lock local officials out as well? Certainly the students "KNOW RAMTHA WILL KEEP THEM SAFE." :roll: :roll: :roll:

How many people have died while at an event? Everyone I was around certainly was sick! It's also a public health hazard.

Doesn't the town of Yelm have anyone to check out these matters?
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
tree
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Unread post by tree »

?The current (Water Facilities Inventory) on record with DOH identifies there are upwards of 10,000 temporary and transient users in a 30-day time frame each month and a constant 50 regular non-residential users each 30 days per month in addition to the one residential connection,? the letter said.
They should pay particular close attention during the months of October and November when the follow-ups
are in full swing in regards to both the water and the fire hazard issue.
ex
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:18 am

Unread post by ex »

<10,000 temporary> how is this number to read? is it printmistake?seems high to me? i definitly saw that the stream got altered with pipes and rearanged driveways during the time i was there.since she doesent care about permits i wonder how many illigal projects she pulled trough.but than sueing neighbours.geting away with the argument bringing money to town.fish and wildlife definitly should inspect the stream.
California Dreamin'
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New NVN Article re Tahoma Terra

Unread post by California Dreamin' »

RSE: DEVELOPERS' ASSERTIONS "PETTY"
Posted 19 Sep 2008.
By Megan Hansen
Nisqually Valley News

Ramtha School of Enlightenment property manager James Flick says allegations about JZ Knight?s water system not being in compliance are petty.

?There?s nothing I really want to rebut,? Flick said. ?We are properly permitted on every level.?

?These are simply false accusations trying to stir things up.?

Last week, Tahoma Terra developers Doug Bloom and Steve Chamberlain sent a letter to Denise Clifford, director of the state Department of Health Southwest Drinking Water Operations asking her to look into Knight?s water system.

?We don?t believe they are in compliance,? Bloom said last week.

In the letter, Bloom and Chamberlain point out discrepancies in their system and call for a down-graded permit status, which could potentially shut RSE operations down temporarily.

?We are properly permitted on every level,? Flick said. ?This whole child mentality of throwing mud is ridiculous.?

Flick however, wasn?t surprised by the accusations.

Currently, Knight is fighting the approval of five developments in Yelm, including Tahoma Terra, based on the assertion that the city does not have enough water rights to accommodate the growth.

Throughout that battle, Knight and her companion, Flick, have asserted that development on Tahoma Terra has impeded flow to Thompson Creek and that they have violated the 100-foot setback.

Bloom and Chamberlain assert Knight has violated the 100- foot setback by allowing student to camp all around the creek.

?We are allowed to have human bodies in the 100-foot buffer,? Flick said. ?We asked and no one has a problem with it.?

Flick also said the accusation that RSE is pumping more water than allotted is false.

?We actually just transferred more water rights,? Flick said, about 35 acre feet.

He said RSE?s water system is inspected on a monthly basis.

Flick said he welcomes questions about the school?s compliance and is willing to fix any errors, if they are any.

?If something wasn?t right we would by all means fix it,? Flick said.

?But we?ve been up on board and have been for 20 years.?
Marie
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Unread post by Marie »

?This whole child mentality of throwing mud is ridiculous.?
Hmmmmmmmm...... which is more ridiculous?? Holding accountable an "organization" that draws "thousands" of people to its conferences by ensuring that organization is in compliance with county and state regulations so as not to endanger other human lives and upset an ecological balance, or making a public spectacle of yourself by comandeering some legal charade because you are threatened by someone else's use of the term "turn to your neighbor??" Really, who is the child here??

Puleeze.
?We are allowed to have human bodies in the 100-foot buffer,? Flick said. ?We asked and no one has a problem with it.?
This is usually something written into a deed or easement outlining how the land will be used... Not something relied on by a verbal "no problem".... I am confident the developers have their own legal dogs investigating... Bravo.
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

QUOTE:
[quote]?We are allowed to have human bodies in the 100-foot buffer,? Flick said.[/quote]


This statement gives me the CREEPS. According to the Merriam Webster On-Line Dictionary, a couple of definitions of the word "body (bodies)" are

2. the physical remains of a dead person or animal.
3. the main part of the physical structure of a human being or animal, not including the head, arms, legs, or wings

(See also corpse)


How in the hell did the phrase "human bodies" enter the dialog???? :twisted: :twisted:
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Jimmy Flick said, "?This whole child mentality of throwing mud is ridiculous.? "

Oh, I see.
It's only okay when YOU are calling others as having a "child mentality" ? I get it. THAT is not throwing mud ! What was I thinking ?

Jim, I'm embarrassed for you.

James
Blue Body
Red Face
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Sept 28, 2008

"Water system concerns dismissed"
"Concerns expressed by Tahoma Terra developers about JZ Knight?s water system were reviewed and dismissed by the state Department of Health."


[ED. NOTE: This writer found the front page, sensational headlines in the Nisqually Valley News on August 15th about accusations made by Thurston Highlands/Tahoma Terra developers Steve Chamberlain & Doug Bloom concerning water rights on JZ Knight's property and Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (RSE) must be some journalistic attempt to sell newspapers. Seems like the modus-operandi at the NVN is to throw mud hoping it will stick and deal with the full story in-context later, once they do more homework. There was another front-page follow-up in the NVN on this issue on August 29th. Once an investigation was completed by the Washington State's Depts. of Ecology and Health, the results finding Ms. Knight's property in total compliance was in a small title in the lower left front-page of last Friday's newspaper, under another sensationalistic headline with accusations hurled against Ms. Knight by a former employee from 17 years ago, renowned city volunteer, Yelm Chamber of Commerce President-elect & Mayor-appointed citizen committee official Glen Cunningham. Where was the top front-page headline "Bloom & Chamberlain's concerns have no merit say 2 State agencies?"]

"Concerns expressed by Tahoma Terra developers about JZ Knight?s water system were reviewed and dismissed by the state Department of Health.

'Our staff had a meeting with them (Tahoma Terra?s Doug Bloom and Steve Chamberlain),' said Carolyn Cox, public information coordinator for the DOH. 'We were able to bridge some misunderstandings.'

In a letter dated Wednesday, Sept. 10, Bloom and Chamberlain alleged non-compliance by Knight?s Ramtha School of Enlightenment and asked the Department of Health to look into the school?s water system.

Bloom and Chamberlain claimed that Knight was overusing her water rights, violating a 100-foot setback of Thompson Creek and exceeding capacity.

Knight is fighting the approval of five developments in Yelm, including Tahoma Terra. Knight is arguing that the City of Yelm does not have enough water rights to accommodate the growth...

'The Department of Ecology?s Report of Examination regarding (Knight?s) water rights shows that each attendee would use an average of 35 gallons per day and each staff member would use 15,' Cox said...

'Ecology?s approval of that projected use is good through 2013, and they see no problem with (Knight?s) water rights.'...

'The Office of Drinking Water has looked into the developers? concerns,' she said.

'We are satisfied that the water system is operating within its water rights and we see no need to adjust usage/event attendance limits in their Water System Approval document.'

Cox said her staff has thoroughly looked into Bloom and Chamberlain?s concerns and are satisfied with the findings.

'From our perspective as the water system regulator, (Knight?s) water system is in good standing,' Cox said."
Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call »

Well, of course that's what the overseers are going to say, otherwise it looks like they didn't do a very good job monitoring the ranch in the first place.

However.... what I expect will happen as a result of Tahoma Terra's complaint is that JZ & Flick will have the auditors up in their shorts all the time with much tighter reviews and standards going forward.

A case of win the battle, lose the war. That's how that little game is played in the real world.
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