NVN Article 9/26/08 re Glen Cunningham interview

[California Dreamin']

This was in today's Nisqually Valley News. Photos and link to video interview, also.


http://www.yelmonline.com/storynews.php ... om=&ucat=1 (DEAD LINK)

[Whatchamacallit]

How brave of Glen to share his experiences and opinions out of the closet. Maybe it really will help those others who talk quietly, to have the courage to come forward more boldly.

Interesting that JZR/RSE may comment later. When ? After they see what they want to say for damage control ? Hopefully, she won't feel it necessary to hassle Glen for "speaking his truth".

[joe sz]

eye witness is a great source but Glen's testimony is more than just his opinion as it is crossreferenced by so many other views and published evidence. I first heard Glen speak about these things when we met before LARSE gathering 1. Thanks for posting it. Good, honest effort.

[Whatchamacallit]

Ahh, but Joe, at the very least, Glen spoke his constitutional right; his OPINIONS and EXPERIENCES.

That the points are more than "just" his opinion, well that is just the frosting on the cake, now isn't it !?

[ordinarymind]

I watched Glen?s interview and have very mixed feelings about it. I appreciate David for setting it up and I appreciate Glen?s willingness to be candid. But I must admit to being left with more questions than answers after watching the interview. I don?t understand why Glen would have stayed with JZ for so long when he never ever believed Ramtha was real. I?m sorry Glen, but I do question your integrity about that. People were running blindfolded across the field and getting hurt. You saw that. You said you knew Ramtha wasn?t real. And yet you stayed. What were you thinking? Were you laughing at us? Feeling sorry for us? But you were enabling the abuse to occur . . I don?t get it.

I can understand that not very many ex staff or ex students would want to be interviewed and so maybe it is important to interview those that are willing so that some facts come out, even if their stories raise as many questions as they might answer. But I must admit I am left feeling very sad after watching Glen's interview.

Personally, I find much more inspiration and encouragement in reading the posts here by Whatcha, Tree, WakeUpCall, David and others who I think show so much integrity and vulnerability.

I'm not sure why I'm posting all this, but I guess I am needing to say my piece and not just sit here by my computer feeling sad by myself after seeing Glen's interview.

[Whatchamacallit]

ordinary,

while i can't speak for glen, i can say a few things that might help you to understand a little more.
glen told me that when he first worked for jz, he had doubts about ramtha's existence. so, he "tested" the waters, so to speak. there is so much NOT in the video !
long story short, he spent months testing "ramtha", and having his doubts confirmed, as well as expanding.
during that time, he also saw the situations like students getting hurt and becoming very upset with their "failings" doing field work and such. it DID bother him.
he was working through this, and he admits that he even told some little lies to the students who were so distraught, to perk up their spirits. he told them ramtha was watching them or said a good word.
but, all of those things collectively did add up for him and him and jz had a confrontation one day, whereby he just refused to answer her interrogations. he said to her, if ramtha is real, then go ask him, he knows. you don't need to ask me. i am paraphrasing, but that's basically how i understood the story. he was not allowed in anymore. yet, he still had family there, who eventually did leave, too.

please understand that i'm not making any excuses for glen. i had a lot of questions for him and told him, "i have no reason to trust a word you say." when we met, too. i wasn't a pushover. but his stories have remained consistent over the years, from what i can tell. if you have more questions for him, then by all means, do ask !!!! hopefully, you will get answers.

[Another Dimension60]

I watched Glen?s interview and have very mixed feelings about it. I appreciate David for setting it up and I appreciate Glen?s willingness to be candid. But I must admit to being left with more questions than answers after watching the interview. I don?t understand why Glen would have stayed with JZ for so long when he never ever believed Ramtha was real. I?m sorry Glen, but I do question your integrity about that. People were running blindfolded across the field and getting hurt. You saw that. You said you knew Ramtha wasn?t real. And yet you stayed. What were you thinking? Were you laughing at us? Feeling sorry for us? But you were enabling the abuse to occur . . I don?t get it.

I can understand that not very many ex staff or ex students would want to be interviewed and so maybe it is important to interview those that are willing so that some facts come out, even if their stories raise as many questions as they might answer. But I must admit I am left feeling very sad after watching Glen's interview.

Personally, I find much more inspiration and encouragement in reading the posts here by Whatcha, Tree, WakeUpCall, David and others who I think show so much integrity and vulnerability.

I'm not sure why I'm posting all this, but I guess I am needing to say my piece and not just sit here by my computer feeling sad by myself after seeing Glen's interview.

Fifteen years ago, when Glen returned to Yelm, he made himself available to anyone with the courage to ask him questions regarding JZ and Ramtha. Fifteen years ago I was one of those people ? he spent an afternoon with several of us telling of his experiences, answering our questions. To my knowledge Glen has never not been available to people who were willing to ask him about his experience. We can thank the people who started this message board, David for his willingness to do interviews and put them online, for the generosity of the person who donated money for the necessary equipment. We can thank the NVN for the first time in 17 years they?ve been willing to print anything Glen has to say re JZK Inc. Bottom line ? Glen didn?t wait to speak out ? it?s taken this long for more people willing to listen.
That being said ? and knowing Glen to be a sincerely kind man ? and knowing how much more he knew ? I too was saddened a bit with the interview. I too queried re his staying, and finding humor in what was ugly. Then I looked into myself ? I too used to laugh at Ramsters ? when I was one (always hating that ?title?) ? there was always, in my perspective, a fanatical ?them? ? ?they? did bizarre things, ?they? went to extremes ? i.e. eating copper when copper foil to line your ceilings was recommended; or wearing camouflage clothes in Yelm so they could be invisible; or being stupid enough to take the run across the field blindfolded so literally that they allowed themselves to be injured; etc etc etc. Only now, do I realize that what I was seeing was evidence of brainwashing and loss of critical thinking ? ?those? fanatics were showing me what was really going on in the ramthaworld ? they were ill, and I made fun of them. The old message board was rife with (and in my opinion, polluted with) mockery of Ramsters. It?s easy to do. Are we any different from Glen? Do we sometimes use humor because we can?t handle the ?reality?, the depth of pain with which we are confronted?
If Glen lied to Ramsters to help them out of self-flagellating depression, he did so out of a compassionate heart. A friend told me a story of how Glen gently stopped her from tripping over some rocks when she was on the ?field? blindfolded, and gave her a hug that made a difference in her day?.
I also had to question - how many times I?ve worked for an organization with which I had ethical issues. How often everyday are each of us faced with decisions of money/survival over our moral values. Do we drive a car? Use electricity? Have pvc pipe for our plumbing?
Glen?s interviews left me hungry for more. I?m sure he?ll answer all our questions.
And James ? perhaps you?d better watch the videos ? there was not one hint of whine in anything Glen said ? and not a glimmer of victimness.

[ordinarymind]

Then I looked into myself ? I too used to laugh at Ramsters ? when I was one (always hating that ?title?) ? there was always, in my perspective, a fanatical ?them? ? ?they? did bizarre things, ?they? went to extremes ? i.e. eating copper when copper foil to line your ceilings was recommended; or wearing camouflage clothes in Yelm so they could be invisible; or being stupid enough to take the run across the field blindfolded so literally that they allowed themselves to be injured; etc etc etc. Only now, do I realize that what I was seeing was evidence of brainwashing and loss of critical thinking ? ?those? fanatics were showing me what was really going on in the ramthaworld ? they were ill, and I made fun of them. The old message board was rife with (and in my opinion, polluted with) mockery of Ramsters. It?s easy to do. Are we any different from Glen? Do we sometimes use humor because we can?t handle the ?reality?, the depth of pain with which we are confronted?
If Glen lied to Ramsters to help them out of self-flagellating depression, he did so out of a compassionate heart. A friend told me a story of how Glen gently stopped her from tripping over some rocks when she was on the ?field? blindfolded, and gave her a hug that made a difference in her day?.

Thanks Whatcha and AD60 . ..you both make good points. And I agree with AD60, that I too had judgments about other "Ramsters" that appeared (in my mind) to be fanatics. Point well made and taken. Also, I know that if I were to be interviewed by David, I would likely not come across as coherently as I might think I am ...it isn't easy to be interviewed I don't think. So again, I want to say I do appreciate David and Glen for their video. This is a complex situation and I am grateful for all efforts to shed more light on it.
Ordinarymind.

[Whatchamacallit]

Ordinary,

The topic of "judgement" is an important one that has come up, I think. I've been thinking about it. Just randomly, these are the major thoughts I've had on my mind, as I pondered the word.

I've admitted on here before, I was quite non-social at RSE. I've admitted it was because a lot of the people struck me as fanatical, or turned me off in their attempts to be "cool" (acting/talking like Ramtha with their Ramthaspeak, as though they had Arrived). I kept a polite distance and befriended VERY few people in all those years. Many/most would recognize my face if they saw me, but a rare few knew much of anything about me. So, I say this, because I sure did hold judgements about plenty of the students. I'm sure some deserved it and some did not. I just didn't want to get involved. I did my disciplines, attended the teachings for the information, and my focus was my family.

I think that mockery happens on both sides of the fence, so to speak. I know students mock the rest of the WORLD, because in their spiritual arrogance, they're sure they're superior. JZR fuels that. I remember hearing "Ramtha" say, a number of times, that we SHOULD be arrogant and proud of it. Entitlement. It's so ridiculous; if we were pulling gold coins out of the ethers we'd have earned being arrogant. The paradox would be, we'd be in a space of not NEEDING to Be Arrogant if we were that evolved. It's all so human, is my point.

It hits a raw nerve for us, I think, to think how "silly" we were. As aussie and others have said, too, it seems SO ridiculous if not stupid, to consider what students do/believe. I wonder to myself (and now on here), how much of what is perceived as "mockery", isn't intended as that, but as just a belly laugh over something that you can only shake your head at (the students won't listen to you if you tell them it's a scam). Not to laugh AT them so much as to laugh to stay sane, you know what I mean ? It's really all very sad. Yet, they'd hack your head off if you tried to intervene. You can lead the horse to water....

I feel a strange sort of bond, a sort of affection toward them, ...how can I explain this... like if you watched a little child do something that is just so silly (not funny, but dumb if you will), that you just laugh at what you're seeing. You're not intending to be mean, but with a "knowing" affection, you just have to laugh and shake your head. I THINK that is what I "got" from Glen on the videos. I KNOW he would be a happy guy if those students were out of there. I KNOW it pains him to see the suffering that comes from there. Just some food for thought.

I think that if we could just have a wish, we'd wish that the current students would just see the light and get outta that place. None of us wants anybody else to suffer what we did when we realized the gig was up.

Personally, I feel that I hold the most judgement toward JZ. She knows what she is doing, and she does it anyway, despite the reasoning, and she sleeps well at night, knowing she ignores dissatisfied customers ~ to whom she owes.

Then, when you see/hear/observe what they are capable of (the likes of Flick, etc), I think there comes a time when the boxing gloves come off. I find it hard to feel sorry for Flick when he makes the comments he did, and when he ALLOWS himself to be made a gopher, for JZ. I think we've all noticed how she doesn't speak for herself. She has puppets do it for her. I've heard some firsthand stories about Flick, and some downright nasty things he has done. I just shake my head, and I think he's pathetic.