here is another perspective

[iamgod17]

here is another perspective on all of this rse, cult and the rest.........

i would say, for myself, i had issues certainly in the beginning because i felt so strongly about what i had experienced(mind you--1 retreat where i found ME....questioned ramtha....but found ME through some disciplines and ALONE time) so that i found myself 'arguing' for the teachings

what i did not understand then that i feel like i am getting a grip on now is that it was MY EXPERIENCE and it was so PROFOUND to ME that i just wanted to SHARE IT

mistake

no one is me but me



in hindsight, i would never try to convince anyone of anything

they will never be ME...and that is a good thing

family

this is another topic that i find rather odd...because i found more 'family' outside of my own family throughout my life

some of this came from 'likemindedness' and a willingness to accept me for me

other things that came up for me in my life was this 'guilt' of 'obligations of family'. tricky....does anyone really owe anyone else anything????

mind you, children are different in my view because we owe them as parents the support, love and such to bring them into their own individualness...but there is a very fine line we walk because it would be 'unjust' of us, in my view, to rob them of their own individuality and their own dreams

so rse...........why is it that some are so 'entangled' within that that they dont seem to be able to see outside of it? or at least to question things within it?

its so individual........

is it a cult? not in my experience at all......

could it be considered as such? sure...that depends on the individual.......

my take on all of this...particularly for those with 'family' that they care about that they feel are 'stuck' within it............LOVE THEM no matter what they think. ALLOW THEM their dreams, desires, and yes..their involvement with rse

it is their choice.....

i suppose one can look at this like they would view an 'addict'....at least maybe in some cases

do you win the battle against addiction when you 'cut them off' from your life?
do you win the battle when you decide you won't speak with them because they are involved with this group or addiction?>
do you win the battle....the battle ....the battle.......

maybe its time to stop the battle.........??

why not indulge them in what they adore? why not bite that tongue and talk with them about what they believe and feel and allow them that time to share?

sometimes just listening opens doors to hearing another perspective.

it brings back to mind something i actually learned from ramtha a while ago. when your ENTIRE ATTENTION is given to someone else........without your NEED TO TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK OR HOW YOU FEEL OR HOW WRONG THEY ARE OR WHAT YOU BELIEVE...you most often bring them to a state of true appreciation of YOU.

change most often and most naturally occurs....

with love to all of you

[Another Dimension60]

"it brings back to mind something i actually learned from ramtha a while ago. when your ENTIRE ATTENTION is given to someone else........without your NEED TO TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK OR HOW YOU FEEL OR HOW WRONG THEY ARE OR WHAT YOU BELIEVE...you most often bring them to a state of true appreciation of YOU."

This is an excellent example of how jz/ramtha uses a valid principle and twists it. What you describe is called "unconditional positive regard" -- and it's not not NOT about someone getting you - it's about being present with someone which allows them to see/know themselves while simultaneously bringing a knowing/experience of Unity.

The same with the concept of "allowing". Wolf spoke eloquently re that. The concept of allowing is about 'seeing' the True Essence of a person - Mother Theresa would call it Christ - also validly named the Heart Essence of someone - -- At the same time, as Wolf points out, that DOESN'T mean 'allowing' harmful behavior. ... "Allowing" is not blanket permissiveness.

It sounds as if you are doing/thinking/seeing as many of us - that is, attributing to Ramtha what is your experience. ... If you were walking on the beach along the Atlantic Ocean and had a grand epiphany, would you then "worship"/follow/give credit to the ocean for your experience? ....

Again, some history - the fear factor began in the mid-80's - it is not new - only re-newed with 9/11 and the popularity of 2012.... Although the 'what' to fear and how to 'prepare' has gone through many phases/transformations, it's the same pattern of engendering fear.

Ockham stated well that what seems to be valid and true re 'ramtha' teachings is from other sources; and that the bait to participate in/be a customer of jzk inc's ramtha business is the love and light and be all you can be stuff.

Thinking about - "Father's" justification of jz's drunken behavior is the twisted version of judge not that ye be judged. Yes it's a valid principle to look within at our own behavior when pointing a finger at someone else -- and again, that doesn't equal permissiveness. For instance, when training professionals (counselors, ministers, social workers, etc) re domestic violence, it's essential that each person recognize their own capacity for violence -- That DOESN'T mean therefore we should all act out our violence or allow others to do so.

During my time as a customer of jzk inc, I had several profound learning experiences - lessons/learnings which have served me since - (including and particularly in 'the tank') - but it doesn't make ramtha real or, even if so, the source or cause of my learning, nor does it make the tank less of a cruel twisted torture imposed on innocent people.

Blessings to you iamgod17 and your journey home to yourself....
and I appreciate your emphasis on the fact that doing battle doesn't bring peace, only more battle....

[ex]

yes there is no battle anymore if you cut a drug addict off your life. anyway its the addict who NEEDS TO WIN the battle not mine or yours. you already give some exceptions [children]. so me as a husband earning most of the money should allow my now ex spouse to culture her believes with going to every possible event? at the cost of my dreams and desires? and oure other obligations. everybody should shut up about believes and allow? allow another vanda , another paulson, another beating by staff or ramtha. how much allowing is required? the question for me was: how much do i have to not aknowledge at rse that the learning still makes it worth to be involved there? the 'old' ramtha gave all the good out. whats left there is a cult around an 'old ideal' with a scrupulos cult leader.

[Sad Grandfather]

Are you required by the court to pay for her addiction? Are there children involved? Time to go to court.

[freemysoul]

Very well put AD60 and ex. I have a hard time holding my tongue when someone starts with ramthaspeak iamgod17, and I am sure you mean well. Its just that every bit of that philosophy has been tainted. Everything JZ has ever said as Ramtha was meant to control people out of 'fear', 'love', 'jealousy', 'anger', 'resentment', all of those emotions she tried for 30 years to get people to disavow.
When you talk of the 'guilt' of obligations of family, I completely understood where you were coming from, because I let JZ convince me of that same selfish understanding for many years. I didn't feel guilty about taking care of my parents until JZ Knight told me I should, and then went on to tell me I shouldn't. The fact is that I Love my parents, and I have every intention of taking care of them, not out of guilt, or shame, or any other emotion JZ feels about her family and then projects on her 'students'. I won't take care of my parents out of some ridiculous fear, or emotion that is taken out of context, I will take care of my parents out of the love I have for them, the respect that I want them to maintain, and the selfless nature that I have found once again, after being free from the clutches of RSE for a couple years now.

[iamgod17]

again, i appreciate all of your perspectives and will always consider them along with my own. so thank you......

personally, i love my mother but have never liked her as a person. i struggled for many years with this notion and being attacked from within my family because i somehow was being selfish and not at all very 'daughterly'. honestly, it is difficult for me to like an individual who is very manipulative in nature---saying one thing one minute when it suits her needs and then turning it around completely to be in favorable agreement with someone else so she is accepted. and i could go on but wont...because i am sure you understand where i am going.

this does not take away the fact that i would never turn my back on my mother should she be in need if there is a way i can help her BECAUSE she is my mother and took care of me when i was her child. but i can also do so without subjecting myself to any of her abusive ways.

i just wanted to share this with you and intend to address other points as well in another post

[freemysoul]

Thanks iamgod17, I sincerely appreciate your posts and understand your perspective as well. Thank you for your insight also, as it will be of much help to many people here. I would feel the same way if my parents were abusive towards me, and wouldn't subject myself to that either. Again, thanks for your posts

[WofthesunEofthemoon]

I agree, iamg, the question of obligation/duty towards family members is a tricky one. I had a mother who, much like your own, I loved, but didn't always like very much. It was obvious that to keep some distance between us was a very good idea, and of benefit to both of us.

However, at the time of her dying, through the last days of her painful struggle towards death, all I could think about and what consumed me to the core, was my unconditional love for her. It was as if she were my own child, even as I was hers. There was no way that I could have deserted her. It had nothing to do with duty, or obligation, when the chips were down, even though I felt that I really owed it to her. It was all that I had to give, and it was freely given.

W.E

[iamgod17]

wow.........i mean WOW............

thank u guys for your wonderful heartfelt thoughts...

i just had my mom and my 'family' pull some really incredible things on me..........

just again...more confirmation about that fact that FAMILY is those who care and are of like mind........

not necessarily those of BLOOD relation.....

currently i am not speaking to anyone in my family because i just dont know what i would say to them, honestly.

the things they have done have been so thoughtless, selfish, and uncaring....it is indescribable to me

through the most difficult of times comes the most hardened and resiliant of persons...i look to that for myself and my children right now

we will succeed in all of our dreams, endevours, and in everything we desire because we desire it to be so..

to HELL with the rest of them

they will live with what they have given as it returns to them

i wish u all the most grand of experiences and the most love any can give

[Vanilla]

For preaching so much "allowing" and not judging..they dont allow those accused as sex offenders- in the school and post their photos and addresses on the wall. To judge.

My friend's boyfriend wasn't ALLOWED to be himself, and he was to say lightly, judged negatively by the big gay warrior Ramtha, himself, when he showed up with a new lover so fast after his wife died..

Sex offenders obviously cant love themselves into life, or change. But prison inmates are welcomed. Also those with colds or flus are told to stay home. Because bluebody cant protect against them.

[Sad Grandfather]

Iamgod, so your concept of family would be if you are a drug addict, you should only hang out with other addicts, because they are of "like mind".

Ypu seem to agree that you owe minor children something, but not that children owe anything to parents? So though my wife and I spent years bringing up our kids, caring for them, sending them to college, and helping them get a good start in life, they owe us nothing, so we can just go die in a nursing home without anyone caring?

And while I am quite sure they are going through their retirement, by giving it to Judy, that I should just butt out and not even share my opinion, and concerns with them? I don't know your definition of "love", but to me, being an enabler in destructive behavior by your children and TO your grandchildren would not qualify as love.

If Judy only destroyed lives financially, she would only be a liar and a theif, bet because she destroys lives emotionally and psychologically, and indirectly destroys the lives of others, I can only consider her a truly evil person.