Do Thoughts Create Reality?

If you feel you've benefited in someway at RSE and would like to share your experiences,
This is the place for you. You are most welcome to directly post here.
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Justtruth
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Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:06 pm

Once again, thank you Indigo
I like what you said, it puts you in a conscious state to create
On one of the next to last streamings, in a sober moment Ramtha said '' You could have created infinite love in this lifetime''


With all my heart, I desire consciously to create love in all walks all of life, day by day, moment to moment and I know I have the free will and power to do so

________________________________________________________________
EMF Moderators Comment.
In the context of what Justtruth posted.
I like what you said, it puts you in a conscious state to create
On one of the next to last streamings, in a sober moment Ramtha said '' You could have created infinite love in this lifetime''
With all my heart, I desire consciously to create love in all walks all of life,
"The law of attraction Do Thoughts Create Reality?" thread has been split into two topic threads.
Justtruth's post has been moved to our JZK/Ramtha RSE supporters debate forum under a new thread titled Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Thank you for your support and understanding.

EMF moderators

Indigo
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Indigo » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:27 pm

I so appreciate you, thank you. It is deeply touching to have other souls who share similar values and paths to exchange experiences with, and recall past experiences on the path to right now. I love your daily intent. I think we are onto something really good, myself.

I am leaving town to visit my little grandchildren, so I shall be out of touch for several days, playing in the land of ballet, beach and swim lessons with toddlers. Ah, life is sweet, all of it.

In peace,

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:18 am

Justtruth, when you say things in posts like you did above, I find it irrational and perplexing. You say that 'in a sober moment ramtha said', yet, I am at a loss as to what that exactly means. When you say things like this, is it that you are cherry picking what JZ says that feels right to you, and therefore rationalizing 'ramtha's' existence? To me, if this is so, you are still following 'jz/ramtha' and therefore justifying all her deviant behavior. The last person I would ever quote on anything, based on her track record for dishonesty and skulduggery, would be JZ Knight, or as you so often like to say, 'ramtha', who are one in the same in my opinion. This post, from its beginnings, and only in my opinion mind you, has strong rse/jz knight leanings, and could be viewed as propoganda for rse on a site that I joined specifically to disavow everything about rse and jz because of the harm it has been shown to cause, so when things like this are said, I can't sit idly by as if I condone or support what you are saying. Part of the problem on this site, is that there are people who still hold onto the 'ramtha is real' thing, or the 'ramtha was real in the beginning' thing, and I am of the opinion based on my experience that there never was a 'ramtha', never will be a 'ramtha' and anything that is associated with 'ramtha' from day one, should be laid at the feet of JZ Knight, as this is her creation, and her lie. I am willing to be patient with people as they make their transition from rse to the real world, and I will continue to be compassionate and understanding to all those whose lives are hurt by JZ Knight, but there has to be a point at which our true intent is laid out, and what we are here for is made clear. I really do believe to cling onto anything that was taught by JZ, and attribute it to anyone besides her, is delusional and potentially harmful to people who really are trying to re establish their lives from the heartbreak and devastation wrought by JZ.

joe sz
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by joe sz » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:59 am

Years back when emf started i got into "tension" with some emerging RSE members with my positions, which I hope are understood as more than mere opinions to people reading. One of the most damaging blocks that I have seen in the past 30 years to recovery from RSE-like cults is to hold on to the position that "everyone has their own reality" or "creates their own reality." Please understand that I am not dismissing anyone's experience of how they see life and themselves in it at this time. I have a couple of long time friends that still irritate me with their sensitive I-am-spiritual-not-religious male philosophies---but we remain friends.

It is not a bad thing imo to center oneself with affirmations or "send good vibes out into the universe" every morning, but to depend on this as a "method" for manipulating reality is next to delusional and it will have consequenses that have more to do with individual character than magical spells.

I realize that fundamentalists in most religions, including New Age religions, see the world this way....many fundamentalist Christians [fundi catholics included] "pray" for health, good fortune, peace on earth, etc. That much is normal. And maybe the God or being we commune with seems to answer or respond positively in your experience. But this can become, as i said, "next to delusional" if the person believes there is some cause and effect principle happening.
No cult or devotional system has a key or method to make this work if it "works" at all as in the Great Work touted by occultists and "The Work" of the Gurdjieff, 4rth Way cults. There is something else going on----Evelyn Underwood who wrote "Mysticism" over 100 years ago tackled this very issue and addressed it well, I thought.

If one believes in controlling some cause and effect principle as in a "Law" or "law of attraction", then one has devolved into practicing a form of sorcery and one is on the slippery road to Harry Potter land that is filled with magic and fighting good and evil with the "energy" of thought, prayer, magic wands, C&E, whatever. ---which is exactly where JZ and so many others in that category have led devotees. This cause and effect sorcery stuff "works" in cinema and fiction but only as metaphor, not as a reflection of the real, adult world.

All I am saying is be careful....if you desire to keep that magic spell door open in your mind and heart....innocuous at first, it has been the first step or ticket that gets you into cults like RSE and Scientology.

Marie
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Marie » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:16 am

I tend to agree that taking too much credit for the events in your day or the reactions, responses you get from others is bordering on the jz version of creating your own reality. Sure, honey attracts more flies than vinegar, that saying has been around long before jz appeared. But geez, give the rest of the human race some credit for being a little autonomous. And I think most of what happens in our days happens with or without our blessings or prayers, it just gives us some smug security to think so.

There are some who swear prayer works... I used to be one of them until well, it didn't work anymore..:-)... I'm sure it didn't work anymore for no particular reason other than it just wasn't the way my life was going at the time.

Believing that prayer works and / or your thoughts influence your reality is great philosophy while it's working. I think I heard a commedian say one time "then try telling all the starving kids in the world to visualize a steak on their plate."

Prayer and meditation help ME stay positive and yes, that in turn can have a positive effect on outcomes, or not, depending on the situation. But it's not "magical" and / or doesn't cause the situation or outcome itself to change.

** Joe -- your post went up as I was writing mine == you said the same thing I was trying to say, and managed to do so in better detail!... :-)
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:28 am

I just want it to be clear Joe, your post was one that I had no problem at all with, and you are consistently helpful to myself, and I know others. Your insight has helped me make that transition from delusional cult follower, to happily recovering cult follower and it was the video of you at the park specifically that enlightened me enough to entertain the idea, that maybe what I was into was a cult, and it was potentially harmful to me (thus leading me to EMF). It has also been your insight and experience that have helped me overcome many emotional and psychological pitfalls I have been through. So, from me to you, thank you sincerely.
Maybe I am being judgmental or overbearing as far as my earlier post is concerned, but there is a point at which I think being OK with the teachings of JZ Knight or the belief in 'ramtha' has a detrimental effect rather than a helpful one, and holding firm to anything associated with her sickens me personally. I would love to find that happy medium, where everyone was happy with everyone else's choices, and personal belief didn't enter into opinion nor perspective of others realities, yet every time someone mentions 'ramtha' as if it were real, or quotes jz as if she were some great philosophical guru, I shudder with disgust, and I don't think I will ever be ok with people spouting her philosophies as if she were Jesus Christ.
If someone is poisoning you 1 percent of the time, but the other 99 percent of the time being loving, providing for you, and showing you
compassion, is that poisoning any less lethal?
Thanks again Joe for all the help you provide, and your posts that are a beacon to all who wish to find themselves again.

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:55 am

Justtruth, when you say things in posts like you did above, I find it irrational and perplexing. You say that 'in a sober moment ramtha said', yet, I am at a loss as to what that exactly means. When you say things like this, is it that you are cherry picking what JZ says that feels right to you, and therefore rationalizing 'ramtha's' existence? To me, if this is so, you are still following 'jz/ramtha' and therefore justifying all her deviant behavior. The last person I would ever quote on anything, based on her track record for dishonesty and skulduggery, would be JZ Knight, or as you so often like to say, 'ramtha', who are one in the same in my opinion. This post, from its beginnings, and only in my opinion mind you, has strong rse/jz knight leanings, and could be viewed as propoganda for rse on a site that I joined specifically to disavow everything about rse and jz because of the harm it has been shown to cause, so when things like this are said, I can't sit idly by as if I condone or support what you are saying. Part of the problem on this site, is that there are people who still hold onto the 'ramtha is real' thing, or the 'ramtha was real in the beginning' thing, and I am of the opinion based on my experience that there never was a 'ramtha', never will be a 'ramtha' and anything that is associated with 'ramtha' from day one, should be laid at the feet of JZ Knight, as this is her creation, and her lie. I am willing to be patient with people as they make their transition from rse to the real world, and I will continue to be compassionate and understanding to all those whose lives are hurt by JZ Knight, but there has to be a point at which our true intent is laid out, and what we are here for is made clear. I really do believe to cling onto anything that was taught by JZ, and attribute it to anyone besides her, is delusional and potentially harmful to people who really are trying to re establish their lives from the heartbreak and devastation wrought by JZ.

Free my soul,

It would have been nice if you would have asked me what I meant, instead of assuming and accusing me of spreading propaganda for RSE. You might as well call me a mole for RSE, which I am not.

You over reacted and it is the exact reason more people do not post here.

I could see your reaction if I was telling people to stay in RSE.


If you want to be a good moderator, you need to realize we are all in different places of healing and seeing things. Where is the compassion and tolerance ????????????????? My last streaming was in May and I have been involved with Ramtha as early as 1984.

It is not a very long time.
I am not clinging to anything that was heartbreaking or devasting and if I want to keep something beautiful that to me is healthy. JZ did not invent love.

JZ did not even invent that are thoughts create life.

To be honest, Indigo's post are beautiful and I can relate to her stories. We both missed the abuse years. I just woke up happy today and her post made me think of what Ramtha recently said. The word sober in front of it was suppose to be funny. In a recent post, I had said to this day, Ramtha has said the most beautiful words I have ever heard. I also said that what I realized too was that anyone can say beautiful words with melodic tones.

I am unraveling almost 30 years, it is my journey and healing, not yours

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:47 am

Justtruth,
I can appreciate your opinion, and in the second line of my post, that is exactly what I did, ask you. Maybe if you reread it you can see that I was asking what you meant, not telling you. I understand what its like to hold onto the things you find helpful to you, and I completely support that. When you start to quote things, in my opinion, from the devil itself, a person who has abused the emotional and physical well being of thousands of people and continues to do so as I write this, I have a right, just as you do, to express my opinion on the matter, and that is all I was doing. I wasn't personally attacking you, or making assumptions about what you meant, just stating my own opinion, and wondering where you were coming from. Also, I wasn't accusing you of anything either, I think a rational person, not emotionally invested in this set of posts can draw their own conclusions. You obviously haven't read my posts, nor do you personally know me, as far as where my compassion and tolerance are, for had I wanted to be intolerant, I could have deleted your posts to begin with, and had I wanted to be compassion less I wouldn't have responded to your post, but that isn't what this is about. I believe it is healthy to question, and healthy to expose delusion or the propagation of a morally bankrupt cult leaders sycophantic and delusional tirades. I think this is about a divergence of opinion that you have taken personally, and if this is the case, I apologize for any misunderstanding, to me, I appreciate your opinion and your posts on the site, and have said so before. I agree that JZ didn't invent love, or the other things you have said, but when you quoted 'ramtha' as saying, "You could have created infinite love in this lifetime.", you leave the impression that a.)you still believe in 'ramtha', which is perfectly ok, you have a right to your opinion and your belief, but so do I. and b.)you presented it in a way that leaves me to assume that you are still a member of rse, and still adhere to JZ Knights fake persona's philosophy, which to me, isn't someone who is leaving the cult of rse, but one who is trying to still spread its dreadfully inept philosophy, one which dramatically altered my life, and that I will spend the rest of pulling the curtain back on the realities of RSE and JZ Knight. Again, I sincerely appreciate your perspective justtruth, and will be supportive in any way I can, but I will never be a part to spreading or condoning a message that has destroyed the lives of so many.

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:29 am

I read your post several times before responding to you. You did make assumptions about me, you even said you could only assume I was still in RSE. Yes, you asked , but mixed it up with your assumptions and what sickens you
Did you look at the date when I started posting?????
It was June, barely over a month. I am not still in RSE.
Where do you think I am at, who can I talk to and who are my friends now after an investment of 30 years
And now I have to unpeel and unwind, it is a tough place

You missed my whole point of the post and it was love, that is what I was talking about.

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:35 am

Justtruth,
What does when you started posting have to do with anything, weren't you posting 4 years ago as beautifulmind? Also, I am not attacking you, merely questioning the wisdom of accepting anything, especially advise on love, from a person as deviant and shady as JZ Knight purporting to be 'ramtha', regardless of how beautiful it may sound. I completely understand that everyone must process their situation individually and it takes time, and I have and will be patient and compassionate to anyone who is experiencing that, but that doesn't mean I can't point out the ridiculousness or hypocrisy of espousing advice from a sociopath, or try to balance the perspective with which you relate your 'early' experience at rse, with the reality of just who JZ Knight is, and how devious and dishonest she has been since 1979, regardless of who she has convinced otherwise.
Like I said before justtruth, I have compassion for your experience and will be here to help you in any way I can, but I don't have to agree with you.

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Robair
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Robair » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:01 pm

Hey Joe
You are great! You can make your point and be funny at the same time.
This is very simply put and make it a great reality check.

think all the loving thoughts and feel positive vibes around a hungry tiger while pulling its tail in the wild and see what happens :lol: :lol: :lol:
Robair
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:18 pm

Go back and read my posts from Beautiful Mind, I could barely say a bad word

And after I posted I felt like I betrayed Ramtha

So posting again is a new phase
And I feel like a new poster
And I do not feel the same
Not asking anyone to agree with me

Once again, I am not holding on to anything destructive

Maybe JZ would like it, but she did not copyright love

I do not have the hatred inside me that you do toward JZ
so I do not have to agree with you either

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:56 pm

I need to add that 4 years ago, I had never seen a drunk Ramtha
( had not been to the ranch in 9 years)
or a F..... you or AS........... episode that I personally saw on the streamings

Recently, plus all the predictions that did not happen, but I saw how it put

Us all in fear and I saw the manipulation

I am still in shock that more people have not posted abou the 17 hour event

When I first left, it was because I just wanted to live my life, have a career

Have some money for a change, in fact when everyone was going nuts with the 911

Madness of taping their windows, and going to the post office with gloves, I was

living in a city, and my business increased 5 times in a very fast pace, and I was

Pretty happy with my life. I just put the whole Ramtha question out of my mind

I got involved with the streamings later and it wasn't until the 17 hour and free event

That he was on a crazy binge.

But many seeds were brewing with me like the stories I read here on abuse, especially

The woman that was punched and how Dr Jo was treated, etc.............. etc.....................

Then every once in awhile you would hear on a CD in the midst of beautiful words, he

Would have to say'' I will bring you down''. That statement bothers me to my core.


We all have own personal stories, unique to ourself. Maybe I was saved alot because I never

Stayed current, I would do a beginners, then a follow up, hardly ever get to a retreat

And though I lived in Yelm, several times, it was not for long. My main commitment was in

The early days and I easily went to as much as I wanted when we were free to come and go.

ex
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by ex » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:53 pm

i understand you better now justtruth. i doubted your integrety too sorry. but as you write your timeline i understand now how you could missed the abusive parts. respect to you that you see a streaming and stand up and say: thats not ok thats not the ramtha i understood or wanna see again. i for myself resided: jz made ramtha up and runs a scam. there are other explanations, from: channeling works. jz get posessed, jz is a case for the lunibinn,too ramtha was there now its jz. i came at a time were the wine ceremonies started and i saw also a 'glories ramtha' or maybe the rest of the ram you experienced. the change in behaviour i witnessed proofed to me: just human. beginner events were always very inspiring. the test events were he challenged the students were mostly off the mandatories. when the students are limited to the ones who life around yelm. a similar point pis.... me off: even if the people around here believe there is a ramtha. that nobody realy chalanges ramthas and jzs moral missbehavior. no ' for what did you this for?'. i think jz is greedy for power and tests out how far she can go.

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:28 pm

Thank you EX, that means alot to me.

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:06 am

JZ Knight is a butcher of souls, who bleeds people emotionally, physically and financially, so I equate her with people like Osama Bin Laden and Charles Manson and have nothing but disdain for her. The feeling, or lack there of I hold towards JZ Knight, stems from her continuing abuse towards her 'students' while purporting to 'teach' them. I am not willing to overlook all the harm that JZ is doing as we speak, to find some minute redeemable quality she may have. Our disagreement stems from something very simple, you still believe in 'ramtha', and I don't. But this doesn't have to mean that we personally attack one another because we don't agree. If you want to quote 'ramtha' as some giant of philosophy, then I have every right to knock the legs out from under the myth you are creating. This isn't a site for people to cheer lead RSE, or to present JZ Knights dogma as the gospel without someone responding fervently, from their own perspective. You have said several times now, that the reason more people don't post on here is because of people like me over reacting or people not feeling comfortable with the responses to their posts. The reality is that, more people are posting on this site than ever, and the reason for that is because there has been an environment created on this site for people like yourself to feel free to express their opinions. That doesn't mean that someone isn't going to question them, or question a persons intent, or meaning, or even state their opinion sternly, without apology, based on facts and reason. I hope you do continue to post Justtruth, and I hope you understand that just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I have something personally against you, and if you post something I don't agree with, or I have evidence that contradicts what you are saying, I am going to respond.

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:06 am

I have not personally attacked you at all

As far as my belief in Ramtha, you cannot say that you know

How I feel, because I am still discovering and questioning

What I feel

You have your experience and I have had mine

You do not have to ram your experience down my throat

I have NOT been trying to have you agree with me at all

You are the one trying to get me over to your way

Of thinking which will never be my way, because we did not

Have the same experiences and you do not seem to be willing

To open up and hear my sharing

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:50 am

Justtruth,
I may not know what you feel or think, but I can surmise through your posts and come to a conclusion based on what you've placed in them when you post things like:

Once again, thank you Indigo
I like what you said, it puts you in a conscious state to create

On one of the next to last streamings, in a sober moment Ramtha said '' You could have created infinite love in this lifetime''


With all my heart, I desire consciously to create love in all walks all of life, day by day, moment to moment and I know I have the free will and power to do so

What other conclusion can one come to other than the fact that you still put stock into, live by and try to share with others JZ Knights harmful rhetoric? I have every right to confront what you say on here, as I know from experience the devastating effect such seemingly innocuous statements can have on a fragile psyche of someone trying to distance themselves from the hell that is 'rse'. You imply in your post, that because 'ramtha' says it, not only is it true to you, but you intend to live your life by it, which is counter productive for people wishing to put JZ's lies, and rse's horror behind them.
I completely understand that you are on your own life's journey, and I sincerely support the freedom of expression that EMF allows, so don't confuse my taking exception to your pro rse/jz posts with me not hearing you, I heard you, and hear you clearly, yet disagree with your support of JZ Knights harmful and manipulative rhetoric. As far as trying to cram anything down your throat, I am at a complete loss as to what you mean. I cannot and will not try to convince you of anything, you have already come to your own conclusions, so don't confuse my contradictory position and opposing viewpoints to being coercive. That is JZ Knights thing, not mine. I wish you the best Justtruth, and support your freedom of expression as I do everyone on this site.

Justtruth
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:54 am

I am DONE with responding to you, freemysoul

Lost in Space
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:19 am

Not to split hairs here Freemysoul, but what is wrong, what is so Ramster like, about this particular statment of JustTruth's that you have offset:
"With all my heart, I desire consciously to create love in all walks all of life, day by day, moment to moment and I know I have the free will and power to do so"
Is that an RSE catch phrase I have never heard of? Forgive me if I err, but I don't see anything exceptionable about that particular statement - and bear in mind that, while I am familiar with many of the teachings and many of the events that go on at the ranch, I am in the friends and family category, and have never been a member of or student at RSE.
To me it is an innofensive as hearing a Christian say "I want to spread love around the world" - although I am not a Christian any longer, I bear with the person and consider their intentions benign.
I think the whole exchange you two have shared is regretable and distressing, while at the same time I respect the positions you both hold.
I just think it's understandable for a newly exiting or potentially exiting Ramster to want to minimize the intollerable crash, the horrendous blow it must be to become disillusioned, and to want to hang on to anything positive one may be able to believe one has gained from the experience.
Most respectfully,
LIS

freemysoul
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Re: The Law of Attraction - Thoughts Creating Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:33 am

Lostinspace,
Not to split hairs either, what exactly did you find regrettable or distressing? I had an opinion, I stated it, and Justtruth and I disagree, I don't see the regret or distress in that. I am sure if you wanted to, there are thousands of lines in the White Book you could quote also, and by themselves, without the context of the words around them, they would seem benign, even helpful. Add a little manipulation here, and some falsehoods to those same lines, and you end up with a completely different paragraph, meant to control, deceive and exploit.
I think its beautiful and noble of Justtruth to want to spread love in every walk of their life, and I also will be supportive of them in any way I can. What is wrong with that support coming in a way that confronts the delusion someone is living under?
I understand what you said in your post Lostinspace, and agree that people who have left rse need comforting and understanding, but lets not confuse this with supporting the same delusional state that people are supposedly leaving.

Lost in Space
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:05 am

Conflict of any kind is distressing to me, so I suppose I should stay off the debate forum in future.
I expect I am a little blind to the sensibilities of former students, who naturally dislike anything that smacks of RSE. I did not see what connected that particular phrase with the school. I don't think it's in the White Book either, but I fully own I could be mistaken.
I don't question the fact that you are here to be helpful to everyone. Nor do I question your right to express your opinion.
Mine is still in the order of "save something from all of this mess". That is, something along the lines of harm reduction in the case of an alcoholic, instead of abrupt cold turkey - that if it helps JustTurth to contrast the JZ/Ramtha of the past with the present one, it's tolerable. Of course, I do not and did not know JZ/Ramtha.

ps. I posted this reply initially on the wrong thread. Can I or you delete it from that thread? Thanks, LIS

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The law of attraction Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:16 am


EMF Moderators Comment.
In the context of what Justtruth posted.
"The law of attraction Do Thoughts Create Reality?" thread has now been split into two topic threads.
Thank you everyone for your understanding.

EMF moderators

freemysoul
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:32 am

I hope you don't stay off any of the forums Lostinspace, your opinion, and posts are very valuable, and definitely make me think and see perspectives that I might not of, so I hope you continue to post. I understand that there are things people are going to want to hold onto that they got at rse, I am sure there are things that I have learned there both about myself and of others that I have used and found helpful to me, and I definitely wouldn't want someone jumping on me or screaming at me, or being hurtful towards me when I was in such a vulnerable state, and I hope people can see that me questioning what someone has posted or said, and stating why I think or feel that way, is different from attacking someone personally or accosting them emotional over such things. I also hope people can understand that Justtruth wanting to hold onto the idea of having Love in every aspect of their life, isn't problematic to me, as a matter of fact, I am very supportive of that idea. It is referring to 'ramtha' as being loving, or espousing love, when I have witnessed first hand the hatred, jealousy, and all other negative emotion you could imagine being more in tune with JZ Knight/ramtha. Or quoting jz knight, as ramtha, as being some beacon of love, when the statement itself leaves students to wonder, "what didn't I do enough of to create infinite love?, what did I do wrong not to have love", or even worse, "I don't have Love." Or the idea of , 'you could of had', that is such a typical ramthism, blaming students because of what they didn't do regardless of what they've done, to keep kicking them down, manipulating their emotions, leaving them prey to even larger paradigms of brainwashing. This type of statement doesn't foster love, it creates doubt and self loathing in a person who's indoctrinated. It all goes back to JZ making students feel as though they aren't worthy, never will be, and never have been, putting them back into a cycle of striving for perfection when the definition of perfection keeps being changed by her. Its manipulative, and its at the core of everything that is wrong with rse/jz.

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:50 am

I have sent a long email to Robair because I remember him from the old days and I wanted him to understand the timeline I was involved with Ramtha. I missed the abuse years of the school which I explained to Robair, so I do not have the hate in my heart that some others do. Though I have had my share of hurt, depression, fear and confusion and lots of questioning.

I await his answer.

I did NOT start posting here to argue or debate and I sincerely feel this thread is NOT in fact in the proper place.

I am also NOT the author of it, so that needs to be removed

If anyone wants to continue this thread and debate or argue, I am not interested in responding, so please save your energy

Putting this in the JZ supporters debate section, is implying I am a supporter of JZ and I never said I was

It has also been implied that I am still in RSE, which I am not and if I was,

I would be honest enough to say so

It has also come to my mind that because JZ has plagiarized all her material

And nothing is original, I am NOT FOLLOWING HER DOCTRINE

She does NOT have a copyright on love or that our thoughts create reality

I learned about that way before I met Ramtha, so it is pretty ironic

That I have been accused of following plagiarised material.

Being so fresh out of the school, ooops, I quoted Ramtha, but before his name,

I put the word Sober which was meant to be funny or sarcasstic

Yes I posted 4 years ago under Beautiful Mind, I am in a new phase of questioning

Because of seeing for my own eyes, a drunken, spitting, cursing, spitting person

And with the predictions, then on hold, but then wait, a comet is coming, it woke

Me straight up, but that was just June, when I first posted as Justtruth, because

All I want is just the truth

I am hurting too, and I had to go as far as preparing for the DTCome to have the

Peace and strength to stand on my own

Now that I am prepared, I can walk away

And now I have to review all that I was taught and look at almost 30 years of influence

I could use a little kindness

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David McCarthy
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 am

Joe posted recently...
Newly exiting RSE folk deserve respect and patience
Dear Justtruth Please try to understand...'
EMF nor the moderators will not be dictated to by anyone and that includes recovering RSE members who carry over onto this board "their recovery needs' the same self centered and selfish attitudes learnt and practiced at RSE.
Your post demonstrates this is exactly the correct place for this thread to be placed and for you to post at this time....

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

iamgod17
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by iamgod17 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:46 am

i hope everyone.............EVERYONE stays and continues to voice their opinions and concerns....

FREEDOM OF SPEACH...sharing experience and feelings should not be something one ever has to worry about

why is it that we cant be more accepting of one another and honor one anothers experience without making somehow that experience that someone else has had unacceptable?

justtruth....i love you...u have been a very dear friend to me and have 'gently' pointed out many things that i know question...i LOVE you for that....

many of you too have done the same

just because i might feel some VALIDITY in ramtha or maybe the earlier teachings...does not make me a misguided crazy person...and i am not saying any of you have said this but i can say i have felt it from time to time posting here

i agree with justtruth in the sense that coming from love, be it tough love, love in and of itself(which ramtha spoke often of in the early days....in a most beautiful way...and others have too...not just ramtha)is what is important

we cant love in conflict...ever....conflict only creates more conflict

and the funny thing is that the minute anyone feels 'attacked' there are only a couple of things that seem to happen from what i have seen....they either shut down and so we lose that wonderful source of knowledge and experience.....or they come out in counter attack and now we will find unproductive conversation that is based in selfishness and the idea that 'no one understands me so i have to find a way to make them understand ....'

i have been here for a very short time and i would like to stay and learn from all of you....so basically i cant speak to what many of you have stated because i dont really know you or your experience but i can tell you that i WANT TO KNOW....i hope i have a chance to learn from all of you

as for justtruth, i have NEVER met a more caring, compassionate, brilliant minded and free thinking individual yet in my life...she led me here because she truly cares about me and others like me. she has come to question things in her many years of experience. i value very much what she has to offer and would hate to see anyone here miss out on that.

maybe what is best is that we state our experience and allow others to state their own WITHOUT judging those experiences or putting assumptions upon them based on our own experiences. i realize this is not always easy.....DAMN it has been very difficult for me I can tell you.....but i try

lets keep the knowledge, individual experiences, and such open so we can be a place where NO ONE IS EVER AFRAID TO SAY WHAT THEY THINK (without the judgement of anyone elses experience...of course...)

i love you guys....

ex
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by ex » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:37 am

hate is a strong word for calling the devil by his real name. to have a strong oppinion about a subject doesen't mean i or others here r filled with hate all to the bone. i guess i disscussed years ago maybe with you? that i don't buy this all over love. isen't it a bit naive? filling up a gastank knowing there flows blood, war, power, into my car? in this moment we r part of the cooperative conspirecie. is it guilt to send out love to the middel east or africa. if you lived in yelm you know that going to rse is a two edged sword you might prevented harm to yourself. there r lots of people who act on jzrs adwise, cash in theire social securety. sell theire homes to get a ug. prepare with big efforts for catastrophies which don't happen. left unwarned by the real earth changing events. get financial sucked dry by masters mlm scams.

freemysoul
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:39 am

This is a site for open discussion and debate on the experiences and opinions of former/current rse students and loved ones who have been abused by JZ Knight and rse. Lets not confuse this open discussion and debate with being judgmental or close minded. If there is a disagreement or a question over the validity of anything that has come out of JZ Knights mouth, the discussion itself is proof of open mindedness and compassionate communication. I can assure you, you won't get such an honest and open debate from JZ Knight.
If someone decides to share JZ Knights hypocritical fallacious philosophy as some beacon of truth or love, I can assure you that people will respond very openly, and very honestly their own experiences on that subject, so lets not misconstrue a posters contrary remarks as judgement. You don't get to share whatever you want, or post whatever you want without it getting a response, that isn't how this site works. I don't know of any member of EMF posting right now, who isn't compassionate, understanding and nonjudgmental. Someone who posted in such a way would not last long here, as it is not tolerated.
It is very difficult making the transition from 'rse' cult member, to a functioning member of the human race, and can make for a bumpy ride. This site has always been a very understanding and compassionate place and doesn't have any plans on changing that.

Another Dimension60
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:50 am

free - as much as you have contributed here, as grateful as we all must be for your time and dedication to being a moderator -- it seems to me you are simply not hearing justtruth.

Our first clue, that we missed/misheard is when she said "a sober moment" -- if we really heard, we can know that has to be a sarcastic comment because jz has probably not had a sober moment in the last decade.
Perhaps, just perhaps, just was pointing out exactly what many here have been pointing out - the 'truths' out of ramtha's mouth are not original, not necessarily wrong, and have been tarnished, corrupted, skewed, and presented in an abusive environment.

And yes, loving our enemies is a valid principle. Choosing love over hate doesn't make evil acts right - but to embody the evil we hate is absurd. But that's a whole other conversation.

There are 'truths' and ideals I had prior to becoming a jzk inc customer and just because they became the hooks by which jz caught me in her ramtha trap, and just because they came out of jz's mouth, doesn't mean they are now wrong. the challenge, or one of them, in leaving jzland is the sorting of what's true and what's garbage as the two have been so melded.

bottom line re just - if one looks/reads/hears all her posts, she made it quite clear she was extricating herself from the muck and mire of jzk inc.

This is a very old issue here on emf - and we're still learning and re-learning and re-learning about not jumping on posters who still believe in some aspects of jzk inc. Had emf existed and I posted within two months of waking up and leaving, I would have been in what I consider the before/after phase - i.e. believing that there once was a ramtha and now isn't; and I would have adamantly denied I'd been in a cult (took me a year and a friend who just left rse to convince me to even consider the concept). More than likely, I would have been 'jumped' on.... ....

Perhaps an option in the future is if moderators have question re a poster's loyalty to rse that they privately discuss this with the poster prior to allowing the post.

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David McCarthy
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Thank you for reaching for balance and understanding Another Dimension60

The hallmark of RSE is divisiveness and the guaranteed outcome of "JZK/Ramtha" quotations on EMF will be just that ---divisiveness---
The core issue here is for the mods to keep EMF safe from all RSE infections this can be an extreamly difficult task for us to achive.
Just a few "Ramtha" lines the poster wrote in just a few seconds without forethought can create an immense amount of
havoc and damage on EMF that we as moderators then have to handle... this takes time, effort and considerable soulsearching for to deal with....
So likewise, please hear what freemysoul is saying as a moderator.... :idea:

Here is my opinion regarding the splitting/moving of this thread that I fully support....
If anyone decides it really necessary to post “JZK/Ramtha” quotations and philosophies they must be posted or moved to the RSE supporters forum period that is what it is for.
Often such posts are full of ambiguity, on one hand it may be supportive in that posters efforts to salvage something of meaning from RSE ,
yet the same post may be very disturbing for those who trust EMF to be free from RSE triggers and JZK/Ramtha crap and propaganda.
Thus we have created the EMF RSE supporters forum to somehow quarantine EMF from such situations.
This bring me to these comment by Justtruth
Justtruth
I just woke up happy today and her post made me think of what Ramtha recently said.
Once again, thank you Indigo
I like what you said, it puts you in a conscious state to create
On one of the next to last streamings, in a sober moment Ramtha said '' You could have created infinite love in this lifetime''

With all my heart, I desire consciously to create love in all walks all of life, day by day, moment to moment and I know I have the free will and power to do so
Justtruth asks quiet rightly for understanding and kindness on EMF
But...with the same hand slams our moderator
“I do not have the hatred inside me that you do toward JZ
so I do not have to agree with you either”
Given that..in all consideration I think this thread has been placed in the correct forum and I would ask Justtruth
to stop posting your vitriol style flames directed at an EMF moderator.

Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Nah.... :shock:

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Another Dimension60
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:38 pm

please explain the vitrol in saying I don't have hate and I don't agree with you. Is that not exactly what "free" said - that he doesn't have hate for "just", and he doesn't agree with her? What's the difference - that he put more words to it?
I'm wayyyyyyyyyyyyy confused here.

Free erroneously made a quote from jz, unfortunately not specifically noting that she was being sarcastic - ok, move the quote.....
but allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the accusations against her are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over the top.

Did it ever occur to "free" that his utter hatred may be offensive to others; that the hatred and tirades and accusations and not hearing posters is EXACTLY an RSE technique/trigger? As much as I agree that jz is killing people physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually; and as articulate as free is, his vitrol is a little much for me. .... Does it mean that because I don't hate jz that I have no right to post and that it's to be assumed that I support jz and everything she's said and done?!!??

I think we alllllllllll need to carefully re-read the relevant posts and re-think/re-perceive our positions here. -- I know I will, 'cause I'm just not seeing/hearing what you are.

If I take what you say literally David, you've eliminated the use of concepts like love, sacred, divine, create, matter, energy, religion, spiritual, walking, consciousness and a bajillion more words and concepts spoken about by jz -- or am I taking you to literally? Is that not a jz technique - oh my u used the phrase so be it so I'll sue you.

this is very upsetting -- I'm obviously missing something here --

It seems to me that the havoc and damage wasn't caused by one quote, but the reaction to it - which could have been handled privately, and quickly. .....I know when I asked 'just' privately for an explanation, I got one. Would not such a polite, non-accusatory, innocent til proven guilty inquiry have saved ALOT of time and upset? For heavens sake - one of the founders of emf believed there was a ramtha - does that invalidate all of emf? did it stop the evolve-ment of emf? did it stop all the help that has been given and received?

still upset and confused. .... And you know I know and greatly greatly greatly appreciate all the moderators have to contend with - 99% isn't even known to most posters. I also know that this over reaction has caused the loss of several, if not many posters.
Sad. Sad. Sad.

Lost in Space
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Lost in Space » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:07 pm

Is still upset and confused. This is the place, I thought, where people who have just left and even people WHO ARE STILL IN THE SCHOOL could post "safely and without fear of flaming and ridicule" - they have been explicitly invited to post on this topic. Some of the discourse here does not strike me as assuring that safety. And I am wondering whether that stricture against flaming is reserved only for those who are no longer in the school.
And, I agree with AD 60, there is hatred for JZ/RAMTHA and hatred for current RSE members implicit in some of the comments here, and that makes it likely that some people who question the school would not post here, and would seek solace and counsel elsewhere.

ex
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by ex » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:06 am

[quote]we cant love in conflict...ever....conflict only creates more conflict[/quote]
the whole life is conflict and handling conflicts. if it comes to a solution and solving of it that matters. and yes i judge. and i want jz knight be judged for misguiding people.the if you r not with ramtha than you don't understand anything is one of jzs brainwash courses. i saw it several times with ramsters if you don't agree with their superior worldview they let you stand and even if there would be a conflict solution urgent necessary they turn theire back.
the world will go on despite our different views. some of rse technics will show up here because we are out of the same boat. thank god they get observed. it still curls my neck hair if i heare: energie, create or focuse. i am tierd of their associations. i wish you all the best in handling your exits. i don't have to put my hand back to the stove i know its hot. i know also that my view is not right for anyone. i too enjoy the diversity here.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:58 am

please explain the vitrol in saying I don't have hate and I don't agree with you. Is that not exactly what "free" said - that he doesn't have hate for "just", and he doesn't agree with her? What's the difference - that he put more words to it?
I'm wayyyyyyyyyyyyy confused here
Perhaps AD60 you are confused because you are misquoting what justtruth posted in what I consider flaming!
I have little tolerance for those who resort to using baiting/sidestepping flame tactics of calling someone hateful whether it be on purpose or not.
Here are some samples of “Hate accusations” I have received in my PM box within the past few days.
Although these PM quotes are not from justtruth I think it clarifies my point that neither I nor anyone should have to put up with this nonsense on EMF particularly the mods..and then wrestle with trying to justify our decisions on keeping EMF a safe place for everyone to post.... :-?
Please explain what has triggered this anger and hated
I am sorry your experience at RSE has left you so angry and unhappy,
No one held a gun to my head to make me attend, so I see it a waste of time and energy to be angry at her after all this time.
I don't think dwelling in the past and blaming others for past decisions and "mistakes" is beneficial and I seem to be hearing a lot of victim talk and not much taking responsibility for decisions made that are regretted.
:
And now you AD60 are posting more vitriol on EMF against freemysoul
Did it ever occur to "free" that his utter hatred may be offensive to others; that the hatred and tirades and accusations and not hearing posters is EXACTLY an RSE technique/trigger? As much as I agree that jz is killing people physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually; and as articulate as free is, his vitrol is a little much for me. ....
If you continue to do so it will be removed from EMF without notice.

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

freemysoul
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:38 am

Although I disagree with AD60's assessment of my posts, I do agree with you about one thing.

I think we alllllllllll need to carefully re-read the relevant posts and re-think/re-perceive our positions here. -- I know I will, 'cause I'm just not seeing/hearing what you are.

Posts involving JZ's destructive philosophies will be responded to, and probably not in a way that everyone agrees with, and that is OK. I do not have anger or hatred in my heart towards anyone on this site, and if the wording of my posts is met with misunderstanding or have led people to make assumptions, I cannot control that. I can't control disagreement and heated discourse from being misconstrued as 'flaming, hatred, or ridicule', these are all personal opinions based on peoples interpretation of posts, while ignoring the potential harm that JZ Knight's poisonous words have had on numerous souls.
Entirely more 'havoc and damage' could be done on this site by allowing JZ Knight's hateful and divisive dogma to go unchecked, leading people to believe that her words and deeds have some validity to personal spirituality without pointing out the obvious evidence to the contrary.

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:39 am

Good heavens, David, why don't you shoot us all at dawn? - Will all you naughty people who have spoken out of turn please line up for the moderators to load up their machine guns! This has gone way, way over the top and completely out of hand. On the night that I read the posts going between Indigo and Justtruth, I have to say that I felt myself getting pretty angry. I felt as if they were creating an atmosphere that was pure "Ramthaland". I felt that they had taken advantage of my thread, somehow, to do that. I would have intervened myself, in the morning, but freemysoul got there before me, and, I have to be very truthful, he said pretty much what I would have, though I would have toned it down a bit. (And please remember, I was never a member of RSE)

Justtruth, in my opinion, appeared to get angry, and didn't want to be 'told'. She even started to tell 'free' off, in rather an imperious way, telling him how he ought to behave as a moderator. Do I think that 'free' responded correctly? All I can say is that I am not sure that I would have continued to express himself quite as he did, but it occurred to me that Justtruth was not going to hear, or understand, what he was saying, in any case, as she had dug into her position. Compassion must be tempered with discernment, and Justtruth had raised my antennae in this regard, already.

Since then, however, the whips have really come out. Words like 'hatred' being bandied about (started, I believe, by Justtruth), people taking their sides. And, for my part, I did begin to feel that she had been thrown into the 'sand-box', in case she was combustible, and rather cruelly. I would go with AD60 on this one, and ask whether this could have been done with more compassion and respect through the PM system.

Now, poor AD60 has been threated with having her posts removed, just for speaking out, even though there may have been real misunderstandings and misinterpretations going on.

We may not like each other's 'behaviour', but please, please, may we continue to honour one another.

WofthesunEofthemoon

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David McCarthy
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Do Victims create Bullies?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:41 am

Thank you for your post WofthesunEofthemoon,
Now, poor AD60 has been threated with having her posts removed, just for speaking out, even though there may have been real misunderstandings and misinterpretations going on.
Just not so WofthesunEofthemoon,
What AD60 posted was totally unacceptable particularly that I had just explained why the EMF moderators will not tolerate this form of vitriolic/flaming
to remain unchallenged on the board.
If our standing firm on this principle is not acceptable or understood to a poster then they are free to respectfully object and we may agree or disagree, the final say however is with the mods.

Vitriol is form of bullying that when the victim push back all hell breaks loose then the victim is blamed and accused by the bully.....
Kindergarten stuff but with enormous destructive ramifications if allowed to go unchecked in society..... Or cult recovery forums … :idea:
As for your suggesting that “I may as well shoot you all at dawn..”
Really?….
I would rather make you all a wonderful breakfast.
Or better still... I would rather you understand and support the EMF moderators for standing firm on the foundation principles of why we created EMF and in this...
we have made it clear within our posting rules ... that any form of vitriolic postings will not be tolerated and will be edited out/removed without notice.

No apologies there..
Just another point I would like to share with you all...
I am constantly attacked by JZ Knight/RSE supporters using very effective nasty character assassination methods......
My apparent "Hate and Anger" being one of their main weapons of choice.
If anyone thinks I will soften my approach when I see this happening on EMF particularly against an EMF moderator think again.
Am I angry when I see this form of postings on EMF.?
Absolutly.
I understand the injustice and damage done very well.
Thank you everyone for your "respectful' contribtion to this topic thread...

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:49 am

Hi, David, I appreciate your reply.

With regard to AD60, and her post, my position is, that I certainly did not agree with her point of view, as I had not experienced freemysoul's posts to be vitriolic; although I had thought that of some of Justtruth's. Perhaps I would have used the word 'spiteful', or something similar. I felt that poor 'free' was getting a little out of his depths, though, at one point. I, again, did not agree with LiS, and her comments about how upsetting she was finding the discourse, in particular speaking to freemysoul. I am afraid that I am not a bleeding heart, and really didn't know why she felt so harrassed by it all. Somethings need to be said. However, having set down my position very clearly, whilst not agreeing with AD60's point of view, nor really understanding where on earth she was coming from, I certainly didn't think she was being vitriolic. I thought she sounded upset and angry, and I will reiterate what I said about misunderstandings, David, as there seemed to be quite a bit of taking quotes out of context going on.

However, I very much take your point about supporting the mods, and that flaming should never be allowed. I accept that sometimes a very strong position has to be taken. I would not want you to think anything different. I agree that there will always be times when individual members disagree with the moderation, and that it is how it should be. Of course the moderators will always have the last word - if they didn't, it would be pointless having them there. However, with all due, and sincerely meant, respect, may I ask consideration for the thought of "Who guards the guardians?"

W.E.

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David McCarthy
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This is who guards the guardians...

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:12 am

Thank you WofthesunEofthemoon
however, with all due, and sincerely meant, respect, may I ask consideration for the thought of "Who guards the guardians?"
This is a very important question that arose when EMF was first conceived and created, and a great challenge as to how could we stop EMF from being hijacked by a chocolate crazed despot. :shock:
Add to the challenge that EMF had to be "owned by somebody" in the sense that it has to be human beings who registers EMF.com, those are who JZ Knight's low life lawyers come looking for!
We all understand I am sure that EMF in the hands a "dictatorship" would be disastrous and would fail miserably in it purpose.
The fact that EMF was seeded and created by some very brave and compassionate human beings is still the backbone of EMF, Whatchamacallit has since left EMF never to return but other brave souls stepped forward to lend their strength and compassion. Robair has been a tower of strengh and instrumental in creating the Glen Cunningham videos and protecting EMF from some very real threats, We have Kensho another wonderful human being who stepped forward with boundless compassion and wisdom in her moderation and posts, Ah then we have our resident catholic Joe Szimhart.. ;-)
What a brilliant mind to help break the RSE mental chains..who has been stedfast in supporting EMF since day one.
We have so many unseen supporters/posters/readers ---Moderator comment----big hug to AD60" for lending their strength and compassion to keep EMF sailing..
recently freemysoul joined the EMF crew.
Set in place is a form of EMF democracy where all important decisions regarding EMF must first be place in the moderator forum for
discussion and decision making, if there is a disagreement then it is placed for a vote where the majority vote stands.
This includes the banning of a poster.
If anyone has a better solution and method to "guard the guardians" I am sure all of us mods will be gladly consider it.

Again... Thank you for your candid and important question WofthesunEofthemoon..

I hope this helps.................

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:45 am

yes, it helps a great deal, David, and I am sure there may be many other people who will have found your reply as helpful as I have. Whilst many of us may have had some idea of the workings behind EMF, there is nothing like being reassured that the chocolate-crazed despot is not 'out to get us'! :lol: Seriously, though, I am very glad that I did ask this question and, at a time like this, it is very important for us all to remember the answer. Thank you very much.

Just to change the subject a bit, I began the original version of this thread, and I would like to thank those that replied before it all started to turn into something completely different; in particular, I would like to thank Joe, Kensho, Marie and yourself, David - which may be somewhat partisan of me, as you were all echoing my own thoughts on the matter, probably in a much better way than I would have been able to express them. It was very much appreciated. Thank you all.

W.E.

Another Dimension60
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:24 pm

it is very difficult in this moment not to be extraordinarily hurt, upset, angry and confused. Hopefully I can find some balance even knowing I should probably wait to respond - and recognizing I'm incapable of not responding.
My apologies to free - I sincerely thought he was expressing hate for jz - my mistake, I apparently mis-interpreted.
My entire post that has David so upset with me was also a sincerely concerned query - yes, there was energy to it, but not attack ----( When, David, have you ever known me to attack anyone???? )--- Again I can only apologize that my asking questions and being confessedly upset and confused was considered attack. I didn't realize I'd misquoted you.
This has never ever been a question to me re allowing someone to proselytize on emf -whether it be for jzk inc or any particular group, product or set of beliefs. For heavens sakes guys, that's an obvious. And of course no one should be allowed to 'abuse' someone else purposely - vitrol-ly, as you would say.
My concern was specific to what I felt was a heavy duty reactive jumping on 'just' when a private, or at least gentler, approach could have been taken. Yes I was disturbed and confused by her post. Yes I wondered at the apparent support of a "previous" ramtha -- And I 'heard' to the depths of me her statement about "who can I talk to and who are my friends now after an investment of 30 years" - So I asked her what she meant - and yes I disagree with her that there is a 'before' ramtha, and have shared my experience and information and perspectives --- -- Do we cut off the hand of the child who steals a cookie? - haven't we had enough experience, including our own, to recognize that a clearly identifiable (schizoid) "phase" of leaving jzland is to separate jz from ramtha, or to hold to a 'before Ramtha' and an 'after Ramtha'? - how many many times have we heard this.? Aren't we in our initial leaving jzland like children, still clinging to some illusions when confronted with a harsh reality? ----- Sometimes when people speak openly re believing in ramtha, and sometimes when it's nevertheless obvious but not acknowledged, there is blatant intent to demean/criticize/mock everything re emf and all who participate. Sometimes though, such people are sincerely struggling to extricate themselves from a tangled mass of truth/lies/and pure caca. .... .... In the context of all of 'Just's posts there was 'reasonable doubt' to me that she was not of the first type, but the second - i.e. sincerely struggling.

It seemed to me that neither free nor just were hearing each other. 'Free' keeps eloquently ranting how dangerous and hurtful quoting dangerous and hurtful/ramtha speak is -- -- and 'just', 'cause she's not a supporter of ramtha or the awfulness perpetrated by jz that 'free' so eloquently describes, is understandably defensive and the energy of her hurt is translated, somehow, as support of ramtha and how awful that is. ..... Free and David are right - proselytizing and supporting ramtha is inappropriate for emf. But Just was not proselytizing and supporting ramtha - and it seemed to me, emphasis on it seemed to me and therefore I could be wrong, but it nevertheless seeeeeemmmms to me that neither free nor David were hearing 'just' explain where she's coming from.

You guys, you 'mods, are understandably defensive because you do get attacks unseen by other posters. But why is your asking for kindness, patience, understanding, compassion ok and the request for kindness, patience, understanding and compassion be expressed in written responses not ok and considered vitrol, attack, and pro-ramtha-ism and self-centeredness? ---
That's not an attack - that is a sincere question of one who is still confused.

As David kindly pointed out, I have a long history here on emf, and perhaps the longest 'outness'/freeness/awakeness from jzland than any one else here - and I have never ever attacked anyone, jumped on, unjustly judged, or spewed vitrol - and to be so accused is hurtful beyond words. In this moment, my reactive response is to simply be done here. I do not deserve such judgment. And it points out, again, that a poster's post needs to be seen in context of all their posts -- -- We who have been part of emf from the beginning know that a poster's 'true colors' ultimately come out - that there is a recognizable consistency. For example - there's a difference between someone who constantly spews violent threats and desires toward jz, which of course is not acceptable, and someone who in a moment of upset may express a wish for jz's death. - and there have been times when someone has been gently reminded that such talk is not appropriate - because they were seen in the context of all their posts . ..... .... Neither 'just', nor I were given the consideration of seeing our posts in the context of who we are/where we're coming from.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:17 pm

AD60 has written that she believes that neither she, nor Justtruth, were given the benefit of having their posts judged in the light of former posts and where they are coming from. I agree with her, but only in respect of herself. This is to be taken from purely my own personal viewpoint. I have read all Justtruth's posts, including the ones put up under the board name of Beautiful Mind. Having, on an earlier thread, taken the point from her that we may be being too harsh with new members, I thanked her for pointing that out, and offered the hand of friendship. I felt it had really been bitten off when she and a fellow poster began, in my opinion, to create a warm and fuzzy little Ramthaland for themselves at the expense of my topic thread! Having read her Beautiful Mind posts, I also realised that some of what was being said was almost word for word what had been written by her before as Beautiful Mind. I don't believe she found it easy to hear what 'free' was saying, even though she has expressed that her viewpoint has changed since her earlier membership. It then appeared to me that she was most definitely playing the victim/poor me card, and even 'sneaked off' to another thread, where she thought she would get more sympathy, and was posting how she had now appealed to Robair on the subject, by email. That didn't really do it for me, but I have to state here that I do not, in any way, have the very large heart that AD60 has.

I am so glad that the moderators have posted her a big hug. I think she should also have a large box of chocolates and a slap up meal at the restaurant of her choice! :-)

W.E.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:44 pm



It then appeared to me that she was most definitely playing the victim/poor me card, and even 'sneaked off' to another thread, where she thought she would get more sympathy, and was posting how she had now appealed to Robair on the subject, by email.

I did not sneak off to another thread to get more sympathy. The thread that Wolf started was split off and a new thread was started, putting me as the author, which I am not. The fact that it was put in this category, I started a new thread because by putting me in this category, it was saying I was a JZ supporter, or still in RSE, or that I wanted to debate. So, please read it again, because I answered those, though no one really wants to take my word for it.

I only emailed Robair, because I knew he would understand the timeline I was involved in Ramtha.

I missed the wine ceremonies, truth teachings, comrades, omega, abuse and it was only recently that on the streamings, that I saw a drunkem cursing, spitting, crazy Ramtha that I have decided I do not want to influence me anymore. I came and went and mostly lived outside of Yelm.

Please feel free to post everything I said as Beautiful Mind, I don't feel it is word for word.

I am in a comletely different phase, because now I am completely free to walk away because I am completely prepared for the DTCome, but that is massive that I had to go through all that to conquer the fear that has been an undercurrent for almost 30 years.

After R said we had to be underground by Dec 21, 2012, that also scared me enough to walk away. I really do not want to be in a newspaper clip, that we finally came out of our bunkers.

I asked for kindness, not pity or sympathy

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:10 pm

I really don't understand why I was jumped on so harshly for a quote of Ramtha, even though I put the word sober in front of it
Sober is obviously is not a respectful word
Because I was commenting under a title saying, Do Thoughts Create Reality, it brought to mind, what I want to create and that is love


I am also wondering why the title of this thread as been allowed??? If you see this as Ramtha doctrine, which is not allowed here????

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:49 pm

and is your opportunity to post without fear of ridicule or intimidation,
with tolerance and respect from all posters for what may be diverse differences, is necessary.

Above is a part of the guidelines here for posting in this section

I have been labeled here without my request and I am getting some pretty stinging comments

Wolf, your comments hurt the most

You take away your friendhip so easily?

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:06 pm

Most of us here have one thing in common and that is we were touched by something in R

That I have discovered is all ready in us, so it is our own

I read recently on this board that someone was saying that David wanted to be a christ

So he could heal the world

So for me to say I wanted to create more love


Why the harshness?? I understand now quotes from R are not OK

But perhaps I could have been told that

I started posting, before knowing all the rules

I was not trying to create a cozy Ramtha land with Indigo all warm

And fuzzy as Wolf said

I just thought her stories were beautiful that she was talking about

After she left R and I relate to them

Loving thoughts and memories

Positive for healing

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Robair
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Robair » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:16 pm

Hello Justtruth and everyone
Excuse my lateness in Respond
First you said that you know me from way back then, I would like to remind you that we were two Robair in the school during those days, Robair the hairdresser and myself truly The Contractor, which one do you remember?
I had written a very long letter responding to all your concerned, but after more thinking and after reading the new development the last days or so I have decided to change it to something more in tune to everyone.
Stay with me on this, do not jump to conclusion if I say something that might seem to you a bit harsh but when come to JZ and RSE I have no middle ground and if you read some of my posts and blogs you will find out very quickly that I am very direct and always call JZ for what she really is a Rapist of Mind and soul, a charlatan and a Crook and like David call her a Spiritual Predator.
You mentioned that you kind know AD, or perhaps know her on paper, AD is a very good friend of mine and contrary to me she is more loving and much more center when come to JZ and RSE then I am or ever will be even though I sometime disagree with her comments never the less her opinion and thought are always very highly taken in consideration and welcome by me. What bring us to this private interchange is the problem you are having with FMS and his comment and Moderating stand. Since I am going to post this on the board also as it is important to everyone to know my position when come to moderating on EMF. After his first respond FMS sent me a private with concern about his interaction, I told Him that I much prefer him to be that way then be too soft when It come to what we think might be an RSE supporter or one that come here gently trying to snick JZ talk on other places then the RSE supporters tread, were they are welcome to post and also where we can all meet and discuss and argue whatever is on their mind knowing where they stand. Many seem to think that we are hater when come to JZ and her organization, Myself personally I really do not like her and to be honest and my wife would confirmed that I never liked her from the start, I never considered her to be a loving entity, for me she was just the Body. This site is not base on Hate but from deep love for people that are snared and stuck in her grips. I have said it before ,if the one that was able to get away from her and are in position to help don’t do it who will. I have cried many times reading the devastating experiences that some have posted on here and are the base of my resolve NOT hate and if I see someone on here again call us that, I will consider them very ignorant of what this site and us are all about and also being see to be very counterproductive and will act accordingly . Everyone on here need to understand that when come to moderating many time we are stuck between a rock and a hard place dam if we do and dam if we don’t, so our basic rule is simple if we are having doubt about someone we will take the safer route to protect the one that come here that have been devastated by this Charlatan and really not in a State of mind to hear more Rambling quotes whatever posted with no harm intended. Perhaps we should make our rules more clear when come to that.
This site is not about Me Me Me or You You You it is about all of US.

In conclusion I would be very disappointed if you decided not to post on here anymore, but will support your choice to do so, you have written great posts and perhaps you and FMS would consider a standard but great option, agree to Disagree, and put all our future effort and focus to help, not to be divided amongst each other making This Crooked Charlatan the big winner.

PS: to everyone that come here and post comment that JZ is beautiful and loving entity or anything along that line in any other tread then RSE supported forum will fist get a very harsh respond from me and be warned and move to the RSE forum,

Again we at EMF will discuss about making this particular rule more precise and perhaps more visible for everyone to see.
Thank you Justtruth and everyone
Robair
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

ex
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by ex » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:27 pm

love ahh, hate hmm, anger, emotions we have them all. if you don't i suspect you are dead or a cultleader trying to program me. now we judge emotions that is good they have to be in the right place. some people go so far they wanna eat only the sweet stuff in life looking very disgusted on people who eat souer or even bitter. totally forgetting that sweet makes them fat and sour refreshes them or bitter can heal their liver and digest their fat. what i wanna say is to love and suport the people around you and people who give you respect and the stranger who diden't do you any wrong by all means share love and be nice. but hate has its place too. i hate what jz does to countless people, i hate the rapist, the murderer, the guy who makes a profit selling rotten food. i hope they get a punch on their nose. would i understand them in a conversation? yes i probably would even have a good talk with jz. would i suport and love her or a serialkiller going back to have his expieriences and try to love him for what he is, just a misguided peorson? no. and somedays if a ramster would come to my house and tell me how great rse is or how rich his latest mlm made him i probably would take a stick and throw him out. would i help him? possibly if he ask me for help. i would judge this in the moment. sorry i am no longer the unconditional giving loving fool the cult wants me to be. you all have a good time.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by joe sz » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:56 pm

ex
some good points you make...

Unconditional love can be perpetual only between rocks.
Human beings are not rocks.
Therefore, unconditional love can not be perpetual between human beings.

how's that for a ;-) syllogism :?:


I think we human folk can approach instances of unconditonal love, but to ask that of any human being as a full-time goal is called a "demand for purity" in the 8 themes that comprise a totalist cult per Robert J Lifton---i agree with him:
3.Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Re ... f_Totalism

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:19 pm

And before anybody takes me for the truly heartless individual that I really am, I have to say that I have heard what Justtruth has said about my post hurting her the most. She and I have pm'd this afternoon and, whilst I cannot be sure that she feels any better about my position now, I have shared with her where I am coming from and, perhaps, why I appeared to take friendship away so quickly.

All that I can add is that I do care about people, and that she is one of them.

W.E.

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:29 pm

What a sweetie !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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David McCarthy
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:41 am

Dear Ad60

Thank you for your post,
Please know that I very much appreciate your efforts to protect, understand and help others on EMF.
I would like to clarirfy something of what you wrote .....
You guys, you 'mods, are understandably defensive because you do get attacks unseen by other posters. But why is your asking for kindness, patience, understanding, compassion ok and the request for kindness, patience, understanding and compassion be expressed in written responses not ok and considered vitrol, attack, and pro-ramtha-ism and self-centeredness? ---
That's not an attack - that is a sincere question of one who is still confused.
Within the context of character assasination style attacks within posts that has taken place on EMF what I asked for is......
I would rather you understand and support the EMF moderators for standing firm on the foundation principles of why we created EMF and in this...
we have made it clear within our posting rules ... that any form of vitriolic postings will not be tolerated and will be edited out/removed without notice
This stand does not negate or trample kindness, patience, understanding and compassion but rather helps insure its presence on EMF.
Robair posted..
Everyone on here needs to understand that when it comes to moderating many time we are stuck between a rock and a hard place
dam if we do and dam if we don’t, so our basic rule is simple if we are having doubt about someone we will take the safer route to protect the one that come here that have been devastated by this Charlatan and really not in a State of mind to hear more Rambling quotes whatever posted with no harm intended. Perhaps we should make our rules more clear when come to that.
We are taking another look at our forum rules that will help make it clearer that "RSE Rambling quotes" will be moved to the RSE supporters forum.
Again I stress my point..this does not mean the EMF mods are "hateful" or is negating kindness, patience, understanding and compassion on EMF.
It is not a coincidence that the “hate connotation posting" arrived within the same bad breath as “Rambling quotes” :idea: !
Thank you from us mods to..Justtruth, WofthesunEofthemoon, Another Dimension60, ex, Lost in Space, iamgod17, Marie, joe sz, Indigo,
for your partisipation on this very difficult and somewhat derailed thread..."Do Thoughts Create Reality?

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Marie
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Marie » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:37 am

I am dubious about jumping into this fray but since I do frequent this board I'll put in my two cents... take it or leave it.

With all due respect, I do not see the "vitriol" or "hatred" in the PMs quoted above. They seem questioning and fairly benign to me. Annoyed maybe, at a stretch, but certainly not "hateful."

I agree we all have "our days" and sometimes some things are just better left unsaid.

Sometimes the efforts I've seen to be sticky sweet and "unconditionally loving" at all times on this forum seem unrealistic and just a different spin on unhealthy behaviors or even, ok, I'll say it, an extension of the "spiritual enlightenment" hype that is the goal of most cults. It's not real.

One might ask ones self why it is so important to only feel love at all times.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:58 am

Robair,

Thank you for your reply. I want to take a few days to think on what you said and what happened here.

It was a very hard lesson to go through to get to understand your rules here, it would

Be great to have it clearer.

I hear you on the damn if you do and damn if you don't. Understood.



For the record, I was never asking for unconditional love, love all the time, or sickly sweet love

Or saying that love had to be there all the time, or that I wanted it or thought it should be

There all the time, or acting from cult doctrine

freemysoul
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:39 am

Thank you to everyone who has posted. This thread has been the most challenging I have experienced and have learned much because of it. I thank you Robair for your heartfelt post and take your advice on a solution to this issue. Agreeing to disagree is a noble and thoughtful solution. Although there will be posts that people may misunderstand, and emotion may outweigh deduction, anyone can post on this site without fear of judgement and hate, and I will continue to uphold this sacred trust that EMF has for all its posters. I think everyone who posts here has a voice that needs heard and a story that needs told.
JZ Knight has caused more destruction to peoples lives and the lives of their families than most people conceive, and for me, EMF is a safe place from her wicked grasp. I see this as a place for healing and understanding, compassion and rebuilding, and to keep it this way I will do whatever it takes. It is my hope that everyone can take something from all of this that makes EMF stronger, healthier and more unified so the next person who comes here needing whatever help it takes to recover from rse's nightmare, finds it from us all.

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:57 pm

Marie,

I think the better question is that I hope you ask yourself why you had to come throw logs on a fire that was all ready going out.

This thread was reaching a level of peace and if you read the whole thing, you might get a clue that there was alot of pain.

Everyone,

Because I wanted to love more, my words have been picked to death and everyone wanted to offer up what I meant, except for what I said they meant

I came back to this board to bring peace and even though, I was moved to a section where supporters are supposed to be free of ridicule, that still went on.

I also came back because it hurt me that AD was hurting.

I did not tell you guys yesterday how much this us made my soul ache

I mean this is what you offer up instead of RSE?????????????

I am one stong person and if it took this experience, for you guys to get your rules

Clearly visible, great, because with that , I know you do good things and can help others

It is a crucial time to help others especially with this timeline of 2012 hanging over

Our heads.


I say that because I am not clear of the indoctrination of it and I am concerned of the actions

Of others, what they might do if they haven't done everything R says.


I do not think this is a place I belong because I have barely separated JZ from Ramtha and

I am worn out from explaining myself and I do not think I have anything else to offer.

Thank you for all the good you do for others and waking many people up

Marie
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Marie » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:39 pm

For the record, my post was not directed to any one person in particular but a generalized sentiment that yes, I am free to post at any time.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

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Robair
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Robair » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:29 pm

Hello Everyone
I know the way I responded to Justtuth might be interpreted by some to be hard, controlling and perhaps lacking of compassion and love. Knowing that whatever my respond would be other then understanding and supporting to JTT position will received by some as what I mentioned above.
Myself think that we as a society do really throw the word Love around way too much and at everything we FEEL even directed to material things like my shoes, my car, my house my, my, my. So much so to the point to have completely diminished its real meaning.
So when someone come here throwing the word love around or telling us that we have lack of it I take it with that understanding. If someone come on here and ask directly for help, when that did happened all of you have jump in with all you might and help, the most help people get on here is from all of the posters, we at EMF provide the vehicle or tool for all of you. But for you to have a safe place to do so this site need to be kept safe 24/7/365, so monitoring and moderating become a part of our lives , in doing so many decisions need to be make and some might not always be right or agreeable to all.
This site is supported by David, Kensho and I, with the help of FMS in moderating. Not too many want to do what we are doing, there is not financial reward in it. So when you come here instead of telling that we have hate in our heart against JZ and seem to be unfair nothing can be farther from the truth Instead of us throwing the word Love around at everything like most do, we are doing it true our actions, dedication, time, and money for the last 4 years.
That will not change no matter who come here and FEEL FEEL FEEL otherwise.
Robair
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

freemysoul
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by freemysoul » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:20 pm

Justtruth,
In your most recent comment:

It is a crucial time to help others especially with this timeline of 2012 hanging over Our heads. I say that because I am not clear of the indoctrination of it and I am concerned of the actions

Of others, what they might do if they haven't done everything R says.

You honestly can't see this as anything other than supporting JZ Knight's harmful apocalyptic flim flam can you? I firmly believe that when you allow a person the freedom to express themselves, the truth always comes out, so I am very grateful that EMF operates in such a manner. You have obviously ignored everything that has been said to you in a very compassionate and understanding way, and as far as I am concerned it is you 'throwing the logs on the fire', with your divisive posts.

I completely support whatever your decision:

I do not think this is a place I belong because I have barely separated JZ from Ramtha and

I am worn out from explaining myself and I do not think I have anything else to offer.

Thank you for all the good you do for others and waking many people up

Justtruth
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Justtruth » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:45 am

t is a crucial time to help others especially with this timeline of 2012 hanging over Our heads. I say that because I am not clear of the indoctrination of it and I am concerned of the actions

Of others, what they might do if they haven't done everything R says.

You honestly can't see this as anything other than supporting JZ Knight's harmful apocalyptic flim flam can you? I firmly believe that when you allow a person the freedom to express themselves, the truth always comes out, so I am very grateful that EMF operates in such a manner. You have obviously ignored everything that has been said to you in a very compassionate and understanding way, and as far as I am concerned it is you 'throwing the logs on the fire', with your divisive posts.


Free,

I had to come back here because someone told me you mis read my last post. When I said I am concerned of the actions of others if they have not done everything R says, I mean I am concerned that there will be people so afraid, there might be suicides because they want to be close to R or because they are terrified because they are NOT prepared or underground, etc..............or they think it is better to be in the 23rd universe. Do you remember the man who predicted the rapture in May? There were some suicides. I really do not like using that word, but I wanted to make myself clear.

Plus, because he said that people needed to be underground by Dec 20, 2012, you can imagine the people quiting their jobs, breaking up of families or just plain losing their mind.

ex
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by ex » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:56 am

only a realty check will help. the cold bastard i am, i am not concerned about people who choose to hang on ramthas robe or wanna go to the 21st universe. if they diden't get it on the 15th of june i don't know when. i am concerned about the ones unpacking their automatic weapons who see every outsider as a threat. [south africa: whats your opinion about this story?]

sara
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by sara » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:06 pm

Oh, this is exactly why I left. I came back to visit because I heard about this thread. Justtruth, I never doubted your integrity for a moment, and agree with every word you say. Another Dimension - thank you for trying to bring some gentleness and a considered, thinking approach into this post. I think you are right - as are others - EMF is not at all a safe place, because some at least of the moderators, with the best of intentions, are simply not self-aware enough. Sometimes people can't hear, because of where they're at, and it's ok to be where you're at. And if you can't hear, then sometimes other people will just stop trying to communicate and take themselves out of the firing line. I would like to say more, but this is more than enough to get me fired at without being heard. I want you to know, Justtruth, that I think I hear and understand you completely - or well enough, at least - I know I can't understand completely. You are welcome to PM me. As far as I can tell, your character comes through, and I hear you, as well as the testimonial of your friend.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:44 am

What do you think sara....?
Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality.....
as taught and philosophied by "JZK/RSE/Ramtha" :?:

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by sara » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:25 am

Hi David

No, I don't think or believe that at all. I think our actions create part of our reality, eg if you smile at people and are pleasant you will most often find that people smile back and are nice to you. I think that our thoughts create a good part of our inner reality - that our attitude is probably the greatest influence on our level of happiness/contentment. Eg noticing, appreciating and being thankful for what we can in our world and everyday life, rather than noticing and thinking about only what seems negative to us (and sometimes is negative). Let me personalise this! Eg taking responsibility for myself and my own feelings rather than wanting or waiting for circumstances or other people to change so that I can feel better. Letting myself feel whatever I feel - happy, excited, sad, angry, resentful, hating in that moment - whatever - without pushing it away or telling myself I don't feel like that - but taking full responsibility for what I do with those feelings, how and where and whether to express them. And doing so with kindness, clarity and gentleness, in a way that tries to connect rather than separate. Eg trying my best to have a kind and gentle attitude towards myself and others, and noticing the thoughts I have that take me away from that. Not judging them but noticing them, and sometimes changing them. I can entertain, dwell on and follow along the road of thoughts that are more and more judgemental, for instance, more and more disconnected, and which will make me feel worse and worse. Or I can notice them, notice how I feel, and hold onto it all, understand what I feel that way, then choose a thought that will make me feel just a little more hopeful, easier, kinder... Then another... I don't mean pretend that I'm not really angry or whatever it is. I don't mean pretend that the situation is different or that it doesn't matter. I mean choose thoughts that take me along a more positive road, so that I feel better, clearer, can think more reasonably, then I will better be able to deal with the situation. Then I'm more likely to make positive choices. This is how I've experienced my thoughts creating my inner reality - a long way away from what I learned in RSE. I also think that thoughts can influence my outer reality in that if I think with clarity and positive emotion about something I want, believing that I can achieve it, my dominant attitude towards it will be positive - one of hope, anticipation, relaxation, willingness to make effort to achieve it - and so I'll be more likely to notice things that will help me towards it, have conversations with people who will help me, be in the right place at the right time because my unconscious will be on the ball, noticing things I didn't consciously - maybe I subconsciously noticed that such and such an event would be taking place at this time and date, didn't consciously think about it, but my subconscious got me to the event, where I learned something I needed to know to achieve my goal. On the other hand, if my dominant attitude towards whatever it is I want, made up of my dominant thoughts about it, is "I'll never have that, it's impossible...", I'm unlikely to notice opportunities to take steps towards it, or to take the steps and follow through when the going gets tough. So I believe that a combination of my thoughts and willingness to take action can "create" those parts of my reality that I can influence. I'm sure this is pretty obvious. I can't create a reality in which I'm a concert pianist unless I put in the hours - HOURS - of practice every day, and even then, I might just not be quite good enough. But "good enough" perhaps to give people a great deal of pleasure - and myself.

I hope this is clear? Written in haste before leaving for work!

Sara

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:53 am

I hope this is clear?
Yes...you were refreshingly clear on that one, thank you.
I remember being sooo very impressed by the RSE slogan... C & E creates the nature of reality!
I swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
I huffed and puffed year after year..till long after the cows came home….. :shock:
But the only reality I created was a further separation from reality I really cherished ...the gifts of life and love..
Also…….Some fair questions to ponder for the RSE 'Thoughts Create Reality Brigade....
Just what is reality? What are thoughts?
Or….how about…. Does reality create thoughts?
All very nice to sit around chatting over a nice cupOtea and a digestive.
But to build one’s life around this type of RSE thinking “in my opinion” is the epitome of selfish ignorance while adding and exasperating the human challenges and sufferings most of us would like to lend a hand alleviating and solving.
The RSE “Thoughts Create Reality” is clever mindbait poison that once swallowed is extremely arduous and painful to clean out….

Thanks for your reply Sara,

David
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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Vanilla » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:27 pm

My girlfriend C told me she huffed and puffed so much that the area where she blew energy out her head, the hairs all turned white. I thought that was a funny story and relating it here as I thought of it, when David was saying how he huffed and puffed til the cows came home.

I heard Joe Dispenza puffed so much he dislocated an eye socket. I am sure thats not the word, but his eye came loose and he had to go to the hospital. Its some medical term. This person said they were there and saw it.

When I was a little girl I used to blow into my cheeks because I liked the "Freckles" it gave me around the eyes. Thats what C and E did to me too. I was told that then you know its working.

I never left my body. I did feel black out almost once, and with glee thought I was on the "other side"

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Ockham » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:20 am

“Do thoughts create reality?” is actually an interesting question and runs deeper than a simple yes/no answer depending upon the context in which you are posing the question. Descartes famously wrote a meditation on, “Cogito ergo sum.” (I think, therefore I am.) Variations on the statement go back to Archimedes, Plato and ancient philosophers.

What it doesn’t say is that if you think happy thoughts and do your C+E huff ‘n puff a la RSE that you’ll be able to condense a gold coin out of the ether. If manifesting were possible, for sure RSE attendees would have long ago cleaned out and bankrupted the Nisqually casino that’s just a few miles down the road from Judy Knight’s ranch. The casino appears to still be in sound condition.

There is a good case for objective reality in this universe where the laws of physics are the same for you and me. There is no free lunch / shortcut.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by Vanilla » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:38 am

If I thought about a blue butterfly and I go to the store and see one, buy it...that does not mean I manifested it.

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Re: Do Thoughts Create Reality?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:15 am

If I thought about a blue butterfly and I go to the store and see one, buy it...that does not mean I manifested it.
It does is you are an RSE shill...! :-?
I remember getting these horrific migraines after hour upon hour of huffing N puffing to Yanni music blasting my ears..
The mirgrains were explained away by the more enlightened students as a sign of healing that my brain was opening up
No Pain..No Gain..:shock:

David

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