An Open Post To Current RSE Students

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Whatchamacallit
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An Open Post To Current RSE Students

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

I still know people in RSE that I care about. Thankfully all of my family is gone. In any case, I want to share the following information, with the intent that it be a wake-up call, a seed planted in fertile soil, for those who are ready to see and hear that they are trapped inside a mind prison, even more so than a physical one (of attending event after event), chasing the elusive dangling carrot, all the while, being so red in the rainbow, that you don't see yourself trapped within.



WHAT KIND OF WINGNUT GETS SUCKED INTO A CULT ? (not)
Research indicates that approximately two-thirds of cult members are psychologically healthy people that come from normal families. The remaining third are likely to have depressive symptoms, usually related to a personal loss--perhaps a death in the family, a failed romantic relationship, or career troubles. Only 5 to 6 percent of cult members demonstrate major psychological problems prior to joining a cult (Singer, 1995). Cults don't want, and don't recruit, people with psychological problems or physical handicaps--they represent a loss rather than a gain of cult-oriented productivity. Cults prefer intelligent, productive individuals who are able to contribute money and talent to "the cause," whatever it may be (Hassan, 198-).

ALSO?.
?Instead, as discussed on a previous page, the vast majority of cult recruits are normal, productive people--people confident in their ability to shrug off cult influence tactics. So, if I had to name the single most important defense against cult influence, it is the realization that we are all vulnerable--our friends, our families, and ourselves. (Note: Dr. Singer argues convincingly that false perceptions of invulnerability leave us particularly vulnerable?
http://www.workingpsychology.com/cultdef.html


THE NINE SYMPTOMS OF CULT INFLUENCE
http://www.workingpsychology.com/cultdef.html
In the same way that a doctor looks for symptoms to help detect a disease, the following symptoms warn us that a family member or friend may have come under the influence of a cult. Of course, not all of these show up in every case, but they provide a red flag that something may be wrong. No single symptom may be conclusive, but you should be suspicious if you see several of the following symptoms together--and remember that the more quickly cult influence is detected, the easier the rescue.

Personality changes: Do you find yourself saying, "He's a different person," or, "I don't know her anymore"? Destructive cults successfully replace their members' personalities with new identities.

Dramatic shifts of values or beliefs: Of course, values and beliefs change gradually over a lifetime--but psychological research has shown that beliefs and values are highly resistant to dramatic short-term change. Such radical changes require extreme situational influences such as those provided by skilled cult leaders.

Changes in diet or sleep patterns: Cults will often restrict the diet and sleep of members, possibly in an effort to hamper normal, rational thought processing. In addition, the vegetarian diets commonly required by cult leaders allow the cults to feed members cheaply.

Refusal to attend important family events: Family members pose a strong threat to the influence of the cult. As such, many cults refuse to allow members to attend family events such as marriages, sick relatives, graduations, etc.

Inability to make decisions without consulting a cult leader or guru: One of the signs of dependency upon a cult leader is the loss of personal autonomy.

Sudden use of a new ideology to explain everything: Like a harpist playing an instrument with a single string, a cult member uses his or her new ideology to explain the entire world--even when it's wildly inappropriate.

Black and white, simplistic reasoning: Underneath all the complicated jargon, you'll find a cult recruit dividing his or her world into 'good' and 'bad'. The shades of grey in which we all live are usually intolerable to a cult member.

New vocabulary: Is the person suddenly using complex jargon to obscure irrational or simplistic thinking? (Although this could merely be a sign of attending graduate school!)

Insistence that you do what they are doing: Recruitment is one of the first duties a new cult member is given. It consolidates the recruits beliefs while it inflates the cult's ranks.


DETECTING DESTRUCTIVE CULTS: THE KEY QUESTIONS TO ASK
If you've encountered an organization that has raised your suspicion, Steve Hassan recommends a number of questions you can ask to determine if the organization may be a cult.
What's the background of the leader of the organization? Does the leader have a criminal record?
Here are some previous professions of cult leaders: carnival barker, used car & encyclopedia salesman, science fiction writer. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with these occupations, but they provide an unusual resume for a spiritual leader. What all these occupations have in common, however, is that they're influence professions. Many cult leaders learned the tricks of the trade in a previous career. Some have run afoul of the law.

What's the power structure of the organization?
Unlike most established religions which employ a broad power structure with checks and balances, cults often have a pyramid structure, with one leader at the top demanding complete subservience from subordinates. Destructive commercial cults are often characterized by a similar pyramid structure with those at the top profiting from the work of those below.

Does the organization use deception to recruit new members?
Many cults use respectable sounding organizations as fronts. For example, what do the Freedom Leadership Foundation, the International Cultural Foundation, and Narcanon have in common? They are all fronts for cults. The Freedom Leadership Foundation and the International Cultural Foundation are owned by the Unification Church, while Narcanon is run by the Church of Scientology. Even more ominous is the Church of Scientology's recent acquisition of the Cult Awareness Network, previously a clearinghouse for crucial information about destructive cults.

Are you trying to recruit me?
This will work frequently, but not always. Some cults instruct their members to immediately deny a recruitment attempt. (However, I've found a similar question works wonders with telemarketers, too!)

Into enemy territory:
Resisting cult influence techniques on their home turf
Often, a new recruit will be encouraged to invite family and friends to an introductory meeting. If you receive such an invitation from your child, you've been given a valuable but risky opportunity to help your loved one escape. Once you're at the meeting, the cult members will probably try to isolate you from your child. This separation can be accomplished quite subtly: One minute you're sitting next to each other; the next minute, each of you is approached by a cult member who engages you in separate conversations, gradually moving away from each other until you're physically across the room from your child. Cults will often try to control your means of transportation, turning a two hour seminar into an overnight. Make sure you have your own way to leave - and approach with particular caution a group that refuses to let you drive to their meeting place.?

ADDITIONAL LINK YOU SHOULD READ:
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org ... cults.html
Whatchamacallit
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More info....

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

DANGER OF CULTS IS GROWING http://www.factnet.org/cult_danger_growing.html
?Despite the human and societal damage caused by cults, few organizations exist to help prevent or lessen the damage. Until very recently, governments worldwide have not created systematic programs to respond to the problem.?
What programs ????

CULT HOTLINE AND CLINIC: A PROGRAM OF THE JEWISH BOARD OF FAMILY AND CHILDREN?S SERVICES
http://www.cultclinic.org/resources.html
RESOURCES
http://www.cultclinic.org/resources.html

CULT STATISTICS
http://www.cultclinic.org/qa2.html
An estimated 5 to 7 million Americans have been involved in cults, or cult-like groups.
The total number of these groups ranges from 3,000 to 5,000. It is hard to get a precise number as cults change their names, splinter off into other groups, or shut down in one area only to open back up in another.
There are approximately 180,000 new cult recruits every year.
Do people ever get out of cults?
Yes. Of the numbers of people who get involved, more people leave than stay. Most leave on their own, yet there are a number who need the help of family, friends, and specialists to help them exit.
How has the cult phenomenon changed over time?
While many people are under the impression that cults have diminished, or even disappeared, they are actually just as prevalent as they were decades ago. They have become more sophisticated, and have taken on names, which mimic those of established groups. Some have also become quite litigious, and have therefore had great success in keeping their critics quiet and limiting public access to information about them.
Cults no longer focus solely on the young and searching. They have expanded their recruitment efforts to include adults and senior citizens. With the latter, they can bring in more money by preying on issues around mid-life crises, and fears about aging (promising health, financial security for yourself and future generations, and even immortality).
Some smaller cult groups have gone national, and international, while others have been disbanded. A number of cult groups have now been around long enough to have a new generation of cultists born into them.
Many cults change their names in response to public education and exposure of their true agendas. They retain the same basic philosophy as before, yet are able to continue undetected.
A number of cultic groups do work within the community to establish a respectable name. Their work is sometimes even publicly recognized by community leaders.
Cults may have originally started as groups that had integrity and a respectable cause yet have become became cultic as the leader designed his or her, role to be more controlling and manipulative. (Sound familiar?)
Whatchamacallit
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Danger Signs In Cults

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Danger Signs in Cults

Daniel Goleman, a psychologist with considerable expertise in spiritual development work, has summarised some very practical indicators of problems in spiritual work. This is an adapted extract from his article 'Early warning signs for the detection of spiritual blight', in the Association for Transpersonal Psychology (Summer '85) quoted in Charles Tart's book 'Waking up' (Element Books 1988) which was monitored for the Institute by Roger Knights.

Spiritual groups - like families, corporations, therapy groups, and marriages - are susceptible to the full range of human foibles. Vanity, power-seeking, and looking out for number one are as likely to show up in a spiritual organisation as any other.

The very nature of such groups often makes it difficult to notice or acknowledge that something is awry. Group collusions such as 'It's all part of the teaching' are invoked as alibis for meanness of spirit and pettiness. Wandering the spiritual path by no means protects us from the normal dose of folly that accompanies any other human endeavour.

Spiritual work is perhaps all the more ripe for foibles because of the excellent cover-up self-deception lends for the use of the spirit in the service of the ego, libido and pocket book. As a spiritual freelancer for many years who has been at the centre or periphery of a variety of such groups, I've had ample opportunity to note or fall prey to some of the typical pitfalls listed below.

Of course, in one or another context each of these signals may be a false negative - a benign symptom with no underlying pathology. But more often than not, they mean that an open-minded, skeptical enquiry is called for. Be wary when you notice the first signs of:

TABOO TOPICS: questions that can't be asked, doubts that can't be shared, misgivings that can't be voiced. For example, 'Where does all the money go?' or 'Does Yogi sleep with his secretary?'

Secrets: the suppression of information, usually tightly guarded by an inner circle. For example, the answers, 'Swiss bank accounts,' or 'Yes, he does - and that's why she had an abortion. '

Spiritual clones: in its minor form, stereotypic behaviour, such as people who walk, talk, smoke, eat and dress just like their leader; in its much more sinister form, psychological stereotyping, such as an entire group of people who manifest only a narrow range of feeling in any and all situations: always happy, or pious, or reducing everything to a single explanation, or sardonic, etc.

Group think: party line that overrides how people actually feel. Typically the cognitive glue that binds the group. Eg 'you're fallen, and Christ is the answer', or 'you're lost in Samsara, and Buddha is the answer', or 'you're impure, and Shiva is the answer'.

The elect: shared delusion of grandeur that there is no way but this one. The corollary: you're lost if you leave the group.

No graduates: members are never weaned from the group. Often accompanies the corollary above.

Assembly lines: everyone is treated identically, no matter what their differences; eg mantras are assigned by dictates of a demographical checklist.

Loyalty tests: members are asked to prove loyalty to the group [or leader] by doing something that violates their personal ethics; for example, set up an organisation that has a hidden agenda of recruiting others into the group, but publicly represents itself as a public service outfit.

Duplicity: the group's public face misrepresents its true nature, as in the example just given.

Unifocal understanding: single world view is used to explain anything and everything; alternate explanations are verboten. For example, if you have diarrhoea its 'Guru's grace'. If it stops, it's also Guru's grace. And if you get constipated, it's still Guru's grace.

Humourlessness: no irreverence allowed. Laughing at sacred cows is good for your health. Take, for example, Gurdjieff's one-liner: 'If you want to lose your faith, make friends with a priest.'
Whatchamacallit
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If The Shoe Fits ...

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

The Guru

Motivation: task focused
Mindset: confusion, inability to understand how others think and feel
Malice: zero to low; when held accountable, low to medium (it's often the absence of malice that identifies a guru type of serial bully) but could be medium to high if narcissistic or psychopathic traits are present

often successful in their narrow field of expertise
regarded as an expert
valued by the employer because s/he brings in the money, status etc
ruthlessly pursues objectives regardless of the cost
ruthless determination to succeed
can be successful over the medium term in their field
task focused
zero people skills
control freak
mainly but not exclusively male
often has a favourite who receives extra attention but who is expected to reciprocate with sycophancy
favours, protects and promotes non-threatening sycophants whilst marginalizing and hindering the advancement of those with higher levels of competence, especially in people skills
apt to betray those formerly favoured, especially when the favoured person starts to show independence of thought or action, or starts to receive more attention or become more popular than their mentor
a male Guru in a position of power may exhibit inappropriate sexual conduct
gauche, aggressive and unpleasant but not evil
may not be overtly attention-seeking but dislikes those around them getting more attention than they're getting, or getting attention which doesn't include the bully
selfish, self-centred, self-opinionated, dogmatic and thoughtless and with a tendency to pontificate
apt to throw temper tantrums when things don't go well or can't get their own way
emotionally immature, perhaps emotionless, sometimes cold and frigid
convincingly intellectualises feelings to compensate for emotional immaturity
intelligent (often highly) but lacks common sense
is happy to lie to suit own purposes
can have a rigid routine
does not accept responsibility for their own behavior
blames others for own inadequacies
refuses to recognise that they could have any shortcomings of their own
does not live in the present
usually extremely neat (for example, desk is always clear)
organized (sometimes overly)
tempts fate but always gets away with it
has stereotypical ideas about gender roles (though this may not be expressed consciously)
makes assumptions about others' thoughts
does not follow social rules, for example may display bad table manners in public
appears unable and unwilling to engage in and sustain small talk
seems unaware of the nature and purpose of rapport
seems to exhibit some symptoms similar to autism, although autistic people tend to be shy, introspective and lack manipulative skills and are usually the targets of bullying, not the perpetrators (it's unknown whether there might be a common cause or whether the similarities are just a superficial coincidence) [more on autism]
appears unable to read people and their thoughts and especially feelings
when held accountable exhibits genuine confusion as to why their behaviour is inappropriate
in cases where malice is low or absent the person my be regarded as somewhat avuncular or mildly jovial or charismatic in nature
likes the appearance of normalcy but rejects responsibilities of relationships
is unable to comprehend or meet the emotional needs of others
often puts work and duty above everything, including relationships
makes power plays, for example leaves the room when someone is speaking, or pretends not to hear and constantly asking a person to repeat what they just said, etc
doesn't share information about self (thoughts, insights, etc) and is not open to receiving this type of information from others (allegedly knows it all already)
secretive
possessive of objects and sometimes people
may view people as objects (this enables controlling behaviour of other people)
thinks of self as superior and above the law / rules / regulations etc (these only apply to other people)
uses denial as a defence mechanism
there are likely to be problems with succession



http://www.bullyeq.com/bol/workbully/serial.htm#Guru
swamibinton
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Unread post by swamibinton »

I had non of this happen to me at RSE it was all free choice.
User avatar
David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Welcome swamibinton
I have appreciated you presence here..
I had non of this happen to me at RSE it was all free choice.
I suggest that you test your RSE "free choice" in the presence of ?Ramtha?.
If there is a next time...
Take a good look into ?those? eyes..
If your knees have not been weakened... and your conscience silenced....
ask your ?hierophant??a very simple question that only you would know the answer to ?!
watch and listen carefully?
and you will see the cage... you are calling freedom ?.
and hear the lies... you are calling truth?

David

***************

Thank you Watcha...

Your humongous post....
is worth a great big box of European chocolate truffles..
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....
wolfman

Unread post by wolfman »

Swami..........

Quote:
I had non of this happen to me at RSE it was all free choice.

I suppose you also missed the teaching that said.

" You Were Given Free Choice (will) Not to Use It."

Tell me again Swami about all your great insights about being a master.

Sounds to me your nothing more than a "High Way Man."
Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call »

Swami, I'm sure it certainly FEELS like free choice to you. That's why Derren Brown's videos are so illuminating. I'm sure the salesman at the jewelry who took blank colored paper instead of real cash for a diamond ring felt like he had free choice at the time but was mentally manipulated, nevertheless.
swamibinton
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Unread post by swamibinton »

By saying "Free Choice" no one has stopped me doing anything I wanted to do at the ranch other than "ram is about to come" lets get inside. No one has bullied or treated me wrong or done anything your explination may imply.
I dont get mail or letters saying "Come back" nothing I come and go as I please. I spend as I please!!!

I dont need convincing when My own personal experience is convincing enough.

I will next chance look deep and see what maybe you dont see.

(go on comment "thats what all the students say")

Till again.
ex
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Unread post by ex »

good for you.you r in the honeymoonphase.obviews contradictions happen later.you r obviews jzrs target group.[about 25 with a girlfriend who has a job].i guess you will feel soon the need to make your own dessision to go to the ranch to continue your edjucation.[but remember dr joe is fierd.you have to relay on jzr she stears the boat]since you suckt the schoolvocabluary up like a sponge i guess you end up on stage or in the fanatic section.yes i have seen it all and i am entiteled to this judgement out of bitternes wasted 5 years with a shizophrenic housewife on drugs.hope you earn the titel"swami"good luck.
journeythroughramthaland
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This is the freedom you chose

Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Swami,
By saying "Free Choice" no one has stopped me doing anything I wanted to do at the ranch other than "ram is about to come" lets get inside. No one has bullied or treated me wrong or done anything your explination may imply.
I dont get mail or letters saying "Come back" nothing I come and go as I please. I spend as I please!!!
Here are some of the choices that you have "agreed" to limit yourself to by participating in the school, my comments will be in caps:



CONDITIONS OF PARTICIPATION

Ramtha?s School of Enlightenment, a division of JZK, Inc. (the "School") is pleased to have you participate in the teachings of Ramtha so long as you make a solemn covenant to abide by these conditions of participation. These conditions apply to students, teachers and other participants in the School. Therefore, as a condition to your participation you must agree to the following: [NOTE, YOU MUST AGREE TO ALL CONDITIONS]

1. The information and techniques taught here are for your knowledge only. You are licensed to use this information and techniques for your personal use only.[NOW, IF YOU WENT TO MEDICAL, LAW,FLIGHT,ART,SCIENCE SCHOOL YOU COULD NEVER SHARE WHAT YOU HAD LEARNED, WRITE A BOOK ABOUT IT, ETC WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE SCHOOL. WHO AND WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO GO TO A SCHOOL THAT WOULD LIMIT ONES CHOICES IN THIS WAY?]You are not authorized to teach or otherwise disseminate through speeches, books, articles, media interviews, or other forms of mass or group distribution (collectively, to "Teach or Disseminate") any information that you learn or teach at the School. By signing these Conditions of Participation you agree not to, directly or indirectly, Teach or Disseminate to others the information and/or techniques that you teach or learn here without the prior written consent of the School, nor shall you assist or facilitate other persons in their dea1ing or dissemination of these matters to others without the prior written consent of the School.
Initials: ______

2. The materials provided to you at the School have been copyrighted. You are not authorized to copy, reproduce, prepare adaptations, publicly distribute, publicly perform, or publicly display any of those materials without the prior written consent of the School. All School events are routinely recorded on audiotapes and archived under the registered trademark RAMTHA DIALOGUES?. RAMTHA DIALOGUES? serves as a historica1 record of the teachings of Ramtha. Portions of those recorded teachings have also been reproduced in various print and other media with the express permission of JZ Knight and a1so form a part of the historical record. By signing these Conditions of Participation. you agree that you will not attribute to Ramtha any statement that is not part of that record. [THIS MEANS THAT WHEN YOU HEAR THE BIG DUDE CURSE, ACT DRUNK, ABUSE;ALL THE THINGS THAT GET CONVIENENTLY EDITED OUT OF THE PUBLIC MATERIAL YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCLOSE IT] You further agree not to Teach or Disseminate anything you BELIEVE you received from Ramtha in a dream, a vision or discipline, or any other source. [HERE EVEN YOUR OWN BELEIFS HAVE BEEN LIMITED]
Initials: _____


3. At all its events, the School seeks to maintain a relaxed and dignified atmosphere, free from commercial and other distractions; therefore you agree not to make commercial or private/ personal solicitations of any kind at School events. This includes solicitations for any business in which you may be invo1ved outside of the School and so1icitatious for payment of your tuition at the School. Any student violating this condition will be asked to leave the event immediately without refund of tuition paid to the School for that event.[OK FOR THEM, BUT NOT FOR YOU]
Initials:_____

4. Ramtha employs interactive methods of teaching that carry a risk of injury to participants.[I HAVE A FEELING THAT YOU DID NOT ASK FOR THE RECORD OF PREVIOUS INJURIES AND THE EXTENT OF THIER SERIOUSNESS SO THAT YOU COULD REVIEW THE RISK IN AN INFORMED MANNER. NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU FROM INQUIRING NOW THOUGH] While the School strives to provide a safe environment that will encourage the mastery of Ramtha's teachings by students. students assume the risk of injury involved with Fieldwork?, the Tank? [a.k.a. the Labyrinth) and any other activity at the School.[NOTE, THIS SAYS ANY OTHER, THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO HOLD THEM RESPOSIBLE FOR WHATEVER THEY MIGHT THINK UP IN THE FUTURE] by signing these Conditions of Participation, you acknowledge that these activities may require physical agi1ity, stamina, and coordination. Further, tbe participants involved in Fieldwork? and the Tank? are often blindfolded. Accidents can occur because you and others arc blindfolded or simply because of the interaction with others or the strenuous activity. To induce the School to allow you to participate in Fieldwork? and the Tank?, you represent that you are physically capable of performing both. Although participation in Fieldwork? and the Tank? is encouraged, it is not required. If you do participate in Fieldwork? and the Tank?, you agree to exercise reasonable caution and prudence while taking part in these activities. Participation in other events and activities also involve interaction with others, and accidents can occur because of the neg1igence of you, the other participants, or even the leaders. In any case, for all of the activities at the School or any School-sponsored event you hereby release JZK, lnc. and its employees and Agents of all liability for damages and injuries you incur while participating at such events, except for
JZK, lnc.?s gross negligence.
Initials:_____


5. Events and their participants are regularly photographed. and videotaped by the School staff. These images, whether videotaped or captured by still photography, may be used by JZK, Inc. in literature, sales products (videos), press releases, Internet postings or School promotions. [YES, YOU HAVE AGREED TO BE A FREE ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE SCHOOL, EVEN IF LATER YOU FIND OUT THAT IT IS A SCAM YOUR FACE COULD POTENTIALY END UP ON AN INTERNET SITE SOMEWHERE AS A HAPPY CAMPER]
Any image photographed of you while at the School or a School-sponsored event may ?be used at a later time without notice to you or consent by you.[ONCE AGAIN, AN ELIMINATION OF YOUR "FREE CHOICE" You understand and agree that JZK, Inc. will not be required to give you prior notice before such an image is released or used.
Initials:_____


6. The School/JZK, Inc. has the right to refuse any person admission or enrollment, except as may be prohibited by law. All events are nonrefundable unless the event is cancelled by JZK., Inc. [THEY CONTROL THE CHOICE OF YOU GOING OR NOT, AND IF THEY KEEP YOUR MONEY OR NOT]
Initials:_____


7. These Conditions of Participation will remain in effect and enforceable for the life of JZ Knight, plus 21 years.[I GUESS THIS MEANS THAT SHE DOES NOT REALLY EXPECT TO BECOME IMMORTAL, OR IS THAT IMMORTAL PLUS 21 YEARS LOL]Inasmuch as a
violation of these conditions would cause damage to the School in an amount that is difficult or impossible to estimate,[SO MUCH FOR ANYTHING BEING POSSIBLE]you agree that these conditions may be enforced by equitable proceedings, including court injunction. Further, you agree that all income you receive from activities in violation of these Conditions of Participation will be paid to JZK, Inc. as compensation for the damages that JZK, Inc. incurs because of such breach (whether JZK, Inc. can establish the amount of such damages), unless JZK, Inc. can establish that its damages are greater than this amount.MONEY , MONEY, MONEY BUT NONE OF IT IS FOR YOUR FABULOUS WEALTH] Initials:____

If you are unable to agree with these conditions and you have already paid your admission fee. JZK, Inc. will refund your payment.

I hereby agree to be bound by the foregoing Conditions of Participation, as witnessed by my signature below.

:roll:
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

free will is relative - you can claim that you have free will. if you have already been manipulated (unaware) to think that truth is being presented, how can you tell that you are acting freely. i suggest reading the the thread labeled 'RSE discrepancies'.

swami - would you agree, that if JZ is a fraud (a non-channeling, fallible human, etc), then her teachings will be flawed, also
would you agree, that if your teacher is just Judith Hampton, aka JZ Knight (whose last husband died of AIDS), and NOT a being named Ramtha, then you are being lied to and manipulated and paying a large fee that goes directly to JZ Knight? would you agree that that would constitute a central pillar built on a lie?

i really have appreciated your sharing, and would like your thoughts on these ideas. i am having a hard time understanding what RSE students a big enough lie to invalidate the learning process... or even to keep a fair amount of skepticism.

truly,
hpp
Stopped going to the hardware store to get milk.
California Dreamin'
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Critical Thinking

Unread post by California Dreamin' »

I'm not sure that this is the right place for this comment, but it reminds me of how challenged my "critical thinking" has become over the years. In fact, embarrassed to admit it, but I never even contemplated critical thinking until reading this message board.

For as long as I can remember (no pun intended), rather than apply critical thinking to situations in my life I have simply impulsively acted and responded to situations from what I deemed was my "knowingness." Now that I'm in touch with the concept of critical thinking, I find that my "knowingness" could be more aptly termed my "personal desire and personal sense of righteousness" and many times made no sense at all once I acted on a decision about something, and the ramifications proved to be tremendous and sometimes unnecessary complicated situations that never would have happened had I applied critical thinking to my words and actions, prior to making decisions.

Hope this makes sense to somebody/anybody.
tree
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:31 am

Unread post by tree »

at RSE it was all free choice.
this is equivalent to saying: "there are no seat belts here, you are free to go."

the kicker is, the seat belt is in your brain. and it was put on you unknowingly.


the only way to know this is the case is several years down the road when
your critical thinking skills are intact. Google "critical thinking."
Right now, for you swami, you are red in that particular rainbow, which is fine.
When you start being pink or yellow, then you will have the eyes to see.
No sense feeding you more red.
We were all red for so many years.
We are now experiencing the other colors.

Cheers.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Tree said, "We were all red for so many years.
We are now experiencing the other colors."


Exactly. Including seeing the limitations of the color red...which cannot be the other colors cuz it's RED.
joe sz
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eightfold path

Unread post by joe sz »

swamibinton

consider what a Buddhist "views" as reality and free choice
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

the first principle of eightfold path is "right view."
"Right view is the beginning and the end of the path, it simply means to see and to understand things as they really are and to realise the Four Noble Truth. As such, right view is the cognitive aspect of wisdom. It means to see things through, to grasp the impermanent and imperfect nature of worldly objects and ideas, and to understand the law of karma and karmic conditioning. Right view is not necessarily an intellectual capacity, just as wisdom is not just a matter of intelligence. Instead, right view is attained, sustained, and enhanced through all capacities of mind. It begins with the intuitive insight that all beings are subject to suffering and it ends with complete understanding of the true nature of all things. Since our view of the world forms our thoughts and our actions, right view yields right thoughts and right actions."

No one has free choice without first seeing and understanding things as they really are in this view. Thus we end "suffering" and wrongheaded desires by seeing things as they are.

To me, as long as an RSE devotee or an ex-RSE devotee cannot "see" that Ramtha is not real as an independent entity, that person has not grasped this first prinicple of Buddhism. If one still "desires to see" [experience] Ramtha one is yet trapped in that desire, therefore choice is not "free" or as free as you percieve. It is as Janja Lalich calls it in her book by that name "Bounded Choice".

see:
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articl ... ce_abs.htm

joe sz
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