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After listening to the old tapes and the new stuff, this seems plausible. Ramtha started swearing, he never swore. Talking about drugs etc, saying things he would never say, bizarree.
My friend was tellng me about how her friend was meditating and started levitating, I know it is possible. My god-daughter apparently manifested a coin, when she was 4 years old from no where (she is a psychic little girl) who happens to have a Mother who is a Medium. All my stories about magical things; having my friend who was the biggest sceptic commit suicide and then come back to me via. a Medium as "The Sceptic" apologising for doubting Spirituality, doubting the Power of the Mind.
I know that I limit myself with my own thoughts and Ramtha, has helped me. Helped me, no interms upon my enlightenment, but remind me that above all, my true mission is my Self, to rediscover that Original Self and this is talked about in Taoism and Buddhism, with the stories of their Masters who were working day and night towards the same Spiritual Goal, Jesus of course -- so does it matter is Ramtha is a fraud? His materials do coincide with a lot of the data that is in other fields of interest, is it new? Well yes and no. Just said in a way that can be understood.
Do I think JZ Knight is a fraud? Yes and NO. I think she got taken away with the money game of it all. Does Ramtha exist? I think so. Does he exist with her today? I don't think so. He has left, I believe, when he said he would. At the end of the day, I believe to not give up on finding that God within, that Original Self and if you choose to do that within the path of Taoism/Buddhism or any other avenue that will help, you should, if Ramtha helps, even though its very similiar to a lot of Eastern Practise e.g. trataka (candle focus), The Void (Zen Meditation), The Dance (Chi Kung/Tai Chi) and various psychic games practised by Shamams and the like, do it, it doesn't matter, just as long as you didn't give up on finding your Original Self.
if anyone believes in santa clause, 35000 year old warriors or other composite lead figures is a personal choice and i tend to respect this as long as it doesn't justifies anarchie, intolerance or violence. everybody should know the whole picture. hitler was a charismatic speaker. did it matter that he inspired also good people? does it matter when the kkk rallies in daylight and kills at night? does it matter to put a light on some ones dark side? we all have our failures. get the whole picture and make up your own mind. i heard ramtha before 2000 behind closed doors. it was not much different.
she he always ranted about everyone else.
And Interested (O.), I think I know who you are. Haven't you started this before on EE, your little 'Ramtha is not too bad', '...if it helps....', the end justifies the means...' etc.?
Ja, you are covering all possibilties here...Do I think JZ Knight is a fraud? Yes and NO
Don't limit this to your spiritual life. If someone is trying to sell you something that's fantastic (ex: magic elixir), ask yourself who is gaining from this exchange. Is there sufficient motive on the seller's part to deceive you? If you feel pressured to make a decision or participate in something, always take a step back and ask yourself if you're the one benefiting or are you making the decision out of fear or pressure.
I spent time at RSE Inc. and have been inundated with the teachings since I was 16. I'm now 42. I know Ramtha isn't real. I never witnessed anything extraordinary at the ranch. My family has been in for 20+ years. They're aging. They can't read cards, manifest, etc etc. It's a scam. Who has benefited more from 20+ years of purchasing CDs, books, events, JZ Rose shopping, pictures of JZ around the house, blind devotion, etc.? If you look at it objectively, I think the answer is pretty obvious.
For me, is started with meeting someone who went to the Ramtha school of enlightenment close to studying Martial Arts/Zen in the E. Coast of the US and meeting one of the Tai Chi Masters who showed him with his own Chi, how to turn cold water into hot water. He eventually ended up studying at Ramtha, although being a Zen Buddhist, he had already had some training.
No one really addressed my point, but instead of it was "Ramtha anger. Ramtha anger". I was saying that to get over your "Ramtha anger", as that isn't going to help either. That knowledge was real, there are countless stories of people who have done the things that he described, maybe none of us are Mediums, gifted psychics, can levitate but it doesn't mean that others can't.
Obvious, I am in love all things esoteric, I painted that pretty strong and my most sorrowful moment was when my friend, 'The Sceptic" he used to call himself hung himself and 7 years later, after blocking me from his life, the night of his death, coming to my house and moving things around, crazy stuff and talking to my friend, who is a Meduim about how he has chnaged his mind about Athiest and now wants to learn about Spirituality. Bah!
So I say, Ramtha, I believe DID exist, but as said, he said he would leave and he did. Is JZ aware that he is gone? Surely she is, I don't know but I am convinced that he is gone and has been for many-many years. Were the teachings from teh 80's and 90's fantastic, absolutely. Were they new? Well, in some respects yes, but as previously stated, a lot of the information shared was written in a lot of Eastern Philosophy, so not information that was unheard off.
My friend, again who I wrote about before, said that he knew of a Taoist in Chicago who won the lotto three times, as he wanted to fix up the Taoist temples. There is a story of a gym instructor in teh US who also won the lotto two or three times, but he spent years in front of a piece of paper, repeating "I have won" -- thus he won and kept winning, did the Taoist or gym instructor study at Ramtha, no, does it matter, NO! It doesn't matter, the inforamtion was the same that you create your own reality, so you can be angry and write about how Ramtha is a rapist, murderer, etc, it means nothign to me, because that is not the point and if you can't remember the point anymore, after studying at The Ramtha School of Enlightenment, key word, Enlightenment, than you deserve your own victimhood, because that was the Point, your Victimhood.
Other people have done amazing things, so can we. With or without Ramtha, Ramtha who I believe, is no longer with JZ Knight.
In summary, Ramtha's School of Enlightenment is to philosophical education as North Shore Community College is to Harvard. Veritas baby!
And, Interested, I find your post interesting. I see some sense it what you say, yet also, the circular argument about "buying into your own victimhood" which should somehow justify those who actually have done wrong and caused injury to others. "If you didn't pre-choose or manifest that, it wouldn't have happened." Well, I think that is the opposite of compassionate or enlightened, although that is just my opinion. I am 100% responsible for myself, true, but I am 0% responsible FOR everybody else, although I may be responsible TO them, and it is the responsibility to behave decently towards others that is being shot down with that argument of "well they manifested that, so they deserved it", and I find that disturbing no matter where it shows it's ugly head, whether in a temple, a marketplace, a home, or a school.
Also, I think that SHARING enlightenment is way more impressive than PEDDLING enlightenment.
My counter example is that I won a first place prize in a radio station sweepstakes merely by mailing a post card on an impulse. I didn't do any disciplines or draw pots of gold on index cards. I even forgot I entered the contest, and was very surprised when I got a call from the radio station several months later.
Yes, it's a tough one.
I didn't study at Ramtha, but was given a lot of Ramtha videos from an ex-Ramtha person and found that the old materials changed me in teh sense that, it took all the things I felt into, for me, a more assertive foundation e.g. I am God/I am from God. Where previously I didn't believe in an External God, through the old Ramtha materials, I could finally see that, for me, I was from the Universe, I am Energy, I am Mind, thus, I am that, too. In terms upon the anger that a lot of you have experienced, I guess I am distant, becuase it was not my experience or my money going down the drain, so I am not too good at understanding what you all experienced, it does seem that the Ramtha stories got more crazy pos-2000. I did meet a woman who was part of the crazy story where a young woman was manipulated into having sex with a Man and Ramtha pulled the Couple (the married woman and man) on stage and humiliated them for forcing the young girl into having sex, the ex-wife I met said it was a terrible time, as she wasn't aware that her Husband was behaving so manipulating behind her back, so it seems that ppl can, like in any Group, changing what is taught for their own fruition.
I haven't been doing the disciplines (prayers and tra ta ka) for 1 year, due to the suicide one year ago, and two weeks ago, I realised I was not very aligned and have been doing the prayers again, within a week, I had a job on a mining site and using teh tra ta ka technique, I "manifested" a job interview next week, where I want to work. Now, your argument, re: winning stuff, is could I have done this without the prayers? Maybe. The focus technique I was using seemed to make things go faster, that said, I don't want to work in mining anymore, as sleeping on site always gives me dreams about murder and rape, so I see that my Thoughts need to be change, as I don't give myself enough credit and force myself, using thoughts (forced energy), to a new industry, which is how I got in, to begin with, forcing my energy.
Now, could I do this to win a luxury home as an example. How do others win, without doing prayers? What thoughts do they have? What thoughts did you have when you won your prize? It's difficult, becuase we have so many thoughts and feelings, so difficult to really ascertain what we think and feel, when we feel and think too much. I have been studying Buddhist Mindfullness and the idea is to be aware of what you're thinking, observe your thoughts/feelings, choose your reactions/actions and I can see, in my Teachers eyes, innocence & purity, that said, there is a lot of money in the new age game, ppl are searching, I haven't "found", I don't know if you ever do, but I believe that I am getting close, it's not about "Ramtha" for me, but just learning to be aware of my subconscious Mind, let go of tings that no longer are needed e.g. kinesiology test recently stated that I am still holding onto childhood birthing trauma (I was a cecearian sp?) baby)... It seems that it is true, in order to just 'let go', you have to change your mind, but thats the hard part, because the Mind is so strong, hence why yoga, meditation, prayers, Network Chiropractic, Raw Food, Good Health, laughter, lots of silliness and joy is needed, to make it easier to let go of all of our petty issues. It's alife process.
Do I still listen to the Ramtha tapes? I do, if I need some inspiration e.g. I spent three months not doing any yoga or meditation and it left me less-aware, so for me, throwing on one of teh 80's Ramtha tapes is just what I need to inspire me again, to care about myself and do prayers, do tra ta ka (candle focus), do Chi Kung (move Chi around the body), because I know what happens when I don't, and it's not good.
But I enjoy reading this forum often. I love reading about yoru stories, it helps give me perspective and reminds me that Ramtha really isn't there anymore, so to avoid JZ Knights school, but I don't need to avoid his Teachings, which were, find your Original Self, that God within me. I know it is there, it's just that I hold on to so many emotions in my very cells, that don't serve me anymore, effected by it, but know that if I want to chagne my forever, I have to be active and keep working on myself, because it feels like this Self, is all I have got.
I can't speak for the Organic Diet, but I did try the Raw food Diet for 6 weeks, coincidning with Chi Kung, Prayers @ 5 am and then tra-ta-ka (candle focus) and prayers again in the evening, several years ago.
The result = A few people told me that they usually can't see auras, but they could see mine, it was really bright and golden (I was covering myself in gold); so I know that it can change you, but I stopped diong it cos it was hard work (stopped the raw food diet that Ramtha did advocate) and everything else and the bright aura deminished, no one ever commented again.
I don't just listen to Ramtha for inspiration i.e. inspiration for me is having someone/anyone tell me to give a shit about myself; I listen to many other sources, Carolynn Myss, Louise Hay are also good; sometimes, it's easier to be lazy and just watch TV, unfortunately, it doesn't get me very far, very quickly, hence needing to listen to, say, Ramtha tapes every so often, as it's hard talking about these things with a lot of people I know. We are all so busy.
Yes, we all are Seekers. I like them the most.
I have not heard of Vera Stanley Alder before, I will google sometime today. I always love finding correlations, its like everything is a Big Puzzle.
that is sadly were a discussion with a rse supporter goes. there is a mountain of facts the people here gathered. than someone comes along and brings ramtha got tested by scientists....or i had such good experiences with blowing my brains out...or but the teachings......
please is there no other kind of supporter. they are all the same they are going in circles. that should be already proof enough for being in a cult.
no matter how polite they start they try exactly what fms describes.
and I would like to carry bluntness further and ask Interested to politely refrain from further 'inquiries' of such kind.
I believe that Interested HAS expressed doubts about Ramtha, insofar as he or she is somewhat critical of the current state of the teachings and the school. In spite of the "New Age" mindset, which many non-Ramsters also share by the way, I do not think that Interested is here to promote RSE so much as he or she is here to explore what appear in his or her mind to be issues about it and perhaps to understand where you all are coming from.
I noted that Interested, here or perhaps in another posting, remarks that they did not pay for events but were instead given tapes and videos. Interested has also said that they follow the teachings of several other shools of thought or gurus.
Many people here have expressed that very same idea over the years, that Ramtha used to be present but is now absent.
I think, personally, as someone who has loved ones in RSE, that the absolute repudiation of everything RSE and the idea of Ramtha stand for is too lofty a goal for most ex-students, and not really to be expected. In at least one case of which I am aware that standard led to a nervous breakdown which might have been avoided had the person allowed themself the illusion that all those years had been worthwhile in some small way.
As an outsider, it seems to me that what is objectionalbe about RSE is not the New Age or magical teachings (which mostly are not so original to RSE), but rather, the doom and gloom predictions and the effects these may have on the lives and life choices of students, as well as the castigation of students and self-castigation by students of themselves, not to mention the financial havock that may be wreaked by trying to stay 'current'.
That being said, you are right, it is not good to have newly exitting students exposed to the same 'stuff' they are trying to grapple with in their own minds and have come to question. I was not criticizing you, Freemysoul, I was asking a question.
Now, am I going to dismiss everything, because Ramtha ALSO said it? That would be stupid.
I don't advocate Catholicsm by any means, I grew up Agnostic, but there are stories of levitation in Catholicsm, I am going to say everything in Christianity is invalid, because I haven't personally seen it? It's not my truth, that is true, but I am open to the possibility that Humankind is not just "sex, cars and rock n roll" - that there is so much more, that we have lost.
The old Ramtha, from the 80's and 90's really did hit home for me, in a way that Eastern Thought never could, although, saying the same thing, said in a way that was far more easier for my western mind to grasp. Books like "The Immortal Sisters" in Taoism, and other books, all talk about the techniques that were being used to attain immortality, the Egytians have obsessed with it since antiquity, but for some reason, for me, it was the Ramtha materials that made me realise that this is potentially something that I could understand and develop, hence the reason I actually started Qi Gong to begin with, otherwise, I would have just put it in the "asian section" in my brain, and continued to ignore it. Do I believe that I will find my Original Self in this life time? Well I guess to use Ramtha's frame of reference (Doubt), I doubt I will, do I believe that it is possible for me to continue working on actively on myself, with the proof for that, by my personal experiences of intuition, inspiration, self-healing and love? if that is all the proof i have right now, then to use Ramtha's quote (I use his quote in irony btw), So be it; but really, I refuse to purely stagnate spiritually because RSE has too many discrepancies, so does Tibetan Buddhism, with the Dalai Lama being "in bed" with the CIA, Science too, has many flaws and discrepencies, you get to a point that you can go crazy, not from Ramtha, RSE, but from being a sceptic 24/7 and seeing everything as wrong and implausible, like EVERYTHING, and that is a boring life, too.
I don't want a boring life of 24/7 Sceptic, I want some scepticsm, that is important, but not 100%, Change is my goal and I am open to anyway to do that. i love growth.
I am giving you notice, that no more Pro Ramtha/JZ Knight posts will be tolerated further by you. If you insist on posting quotes from JZ Knight or continue flooding your posts with New Aged, Ramtha based ideas, quotes and advice from a proven Sociopath and destroyer of lives, your posts with be removed without notice. I also would request that you read my post to you, and if possible, answer the simple questions I made of you.
I have removed your post. This is a debate forum, and that is not what you are using it for. You are simply spreading your message of how innocent, harmless and helpful JZ and her cult are, and that will not be tolerated, nor will your demeaning and vitriolic posts be tolerated. If you wish to post how wonderful your life is due to what JZ Knight has you convinced of, feel free to go to her site, or others like it and spread that nonsense there, as it won't be tolerated here. If you wish to post another demeaning and insulting post, it also will be removed and if you continue, so will you. Please use this site for what it is intended, and that is not for sharing your glowing perspective on ramtha, rse, and her style of new age hokey nonsense. You obviously have no intention of leaving the destructive and dubious ideals that JZ Knight stands for, just the opposite, you intend to seek out others who are like minded and just as harmful, and that is completely your right, however counterproductive to sanity and recovery from cult abuse. I have asked you twice now what you are doing here, and you have refused to answer me with your words, but your actions speak loudly. You wish to come to this site debunking the harm in ramtha and similar destructive, manipulative ideas, and have shared and justified repeatedly your delusional practices ad nauseam. This is not only counter productive to the goals of this site, but has the potential for great harm to those wishing to escape the clutches of JZ Knights manipulative and harmful ways.
A debate forum means, many different opinions. If you're going to create a "debate forum" and then delete posts that are pro-Ramtha (when its in the Debate forum"), and you think its OK for you to write about how deluded I am, and then delete your posts when you have not been impeccable and become extremely emotional, to give you time to calm down emotionally, come back and give me the "talk" about how I am not allowed to debate, in the DEBATE forum.
This stance is the height of hypocrisy, it is imperative that you delete all of my posts thus deleting my alias, as Interested.
there is more knowledge than 3 seminars. we all know what a sweetheart jz is in public and what she pulls behind closed doors. why do you think we went to rse? some of us have more than 10 events on our backs. why do you think we became sceptics? because ramtha had all the answers and we r all pitiful lost souls who need some new perspective? you stated nothing new here.
rse is a cult and jzs ramtha a delusion. if you love to believe in santa and the tooth ferry that's up to you. they left when i was 8 but before they were all cool and dandy.
[i also have some punctuation and grammar problems so sorry for that]
You have confused Debate with Proselytizing. This Debate forum is just that, and like I have said before, you are not debating, only advertising your personal lifestyle choice of living a life in JZ Knights nightmarish reality of fear and manipulation.
I will not be dictated to by you by removing all your posts. They will be left for others to see and judge for themselves the merits of rse and JZ Knight. It will also be educational for people to be able to recognize someone who is living in denial and delusion, having thrown critical thought right out the window with common sense. If you wish to stay on this site, I would suggest you follow the simple instructions of not proselytizing and recruiting. If you wanted to leave or question rse and it harmful ways, you would have made that very clear, but it is obvious what you are here for and that will not be tolerated.
evolution is a ancient concept... i still can laugh my ass off. put some big words into mixed up gibberish and talk smart. diden't i saw this somewere?
I read the rules of teh debate forum, it clearly says its OK to be "Pro-Ramtha" in there and the fact that what I wrote was deleted in pure hypocrisy. Considering I wasn't even writing about Ramtha, but Eastern Philosophy and the correlations between Ramtha and what "every other Tom, Dick & Harry" have said for yesteryear, it is just sad, that it is come to this.
My personal choice is to do applied disciplines as it were. I spent hours and hours of concentration and got a professional certification and that did indeed get me an interview and success landing a job I had decided I wanted. I could have done C+E instead' but I'll bet I wouldn't have had the applied knowledge to be successful in the interview. Similarly, I can't rewind and try it with the RSE way instead. I tend to be rather applied about such things and I can see A implies B implies C in the route I took. Focus and meditation are great, but that seems to lead to an indefinite outcome. I could see a place for some of RSE's exercises to build self confidence where I would need to project belief in myself in front of an interviewer - something you've got to be able to do to seal the deal in an interview. If you want to spend a lot of money at RSE for soft skills, so be it. Self confidence may get you in the door, but you probably won't go too far without a fact based education as well to back it up.
I don't do formal exercises and extended prayer sessions the way it is taught by RSE. I am certainly aware of God and understand myself as part o God and the universe, I try to let that awareness be part of everything all day long. I don't see the point of not having that be an integral part of life in general. If so, then one needn't set aside separate time for disciplines, and the time that would have been dedicated to disciplines can be used toward work that supports overall spiritual and secular goals. Spiritual goals don't necessarily have to be separate from secular goals. Siddhartha recommended the middle path and that is the approach I try to have, keeping moderation and balance in life, taking time to enjoy and appreciate whatever I have and whatever I am.
- David McCarthy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2596
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
- Location: New Zealand
Our moderator freemysoul has deemed several of your posts as proselytizing RSE doctrines with scant regard to debating the issues they present. These posts have been removed from this forum.
Why? When an RSE member/supporter drifts into philosophizing 'Ramtha' quotations' while circling around the possible good of RSE
this is not a debate at all, but a nice chat over coffee, this is valuable and fun to be sure,
but our RSE supporters debate forum was not created for this form of exchange.
Please stretch your understanding....
For most EMF members RSE/JZ Knight has devastated their lives, a spiritual rape by a clever sociopath just about sums it up.
Some of the information you are advocating is what JZ Knight dresses her 'Ramtha' charade around for camouflage,
It is this that with respectable debate, I hope would become clear to you and perhaps save your life, or someone near and dear to you from a cultic recruitment, indoctrination and immersion such as RSE,Inc.
I hope you understand as I feel you are sincere but somewhat not willing to look into the dark and hard questions
of RSE and its building blocks. This takes a more digging and respectful debate.
All the best to you in your seeking of meaning and journey in life.