Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

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Interested
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:08 am

Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:20 am

My friend studied at RSE for 10 years, he was a Scientist, turned mystic. He says that Ramtha said that he would leave I think it was 2000, and when 2000 came, the materials turned to shit; and he is convinced that Ramtha WAS there in the 80's and 90's but now, it is another Entity and JZ Knight wouldn't know, as she is only the Channeller.

After listening to the old tapes and the new stuff, this seems plausible. Ramtha started swearing, he never swore. Talking about drugs etc, saying things he would never say, bizarree.

My friend was tellng me about how her friend was meditating and started levitating, I know it is possible. My god-daughter apparently manifested a coin, when she was 4 years old from no where (she is a psychic little girl) who happens to have a Mother who is a Medium. All my stories about magical things; having my friend who was the biggest sceptic commit suicide and then come back to me via. a Medium as "The Sceptic" apologising for doubting Spirituality, doubting the Power of the Mind.

I know that I limit myself with my own thoughts and Ramtha, has helped me. Helped me, no interms upon my enlightenment, but remind me that above all, my true mission is my Self, to rediscover that Original Self and this is talked about in Taoism and Buddhism, with the stories of their Masters who were working day and night towards the same Spiritual Goal, Jesus of course -- so does it matter is Ramtha is a fraud? His materials do coincide with a lot of the data that is in other fields of interest, is it new? Well yes and no. Just said in a way that can be understood.

Do I think JZ Knight is a fraud? Yes and NO. I think she got taken away with the money game of it all. Does Ramtha exist? I think so. Does he exist with her today? I don't think so. He has left, I believe, when he said he would. At the end of the day, I believe to not give up on finding that God within, that Original Self and if you choose to do that within the path of Taoism/Buddhism or any other avenue that will help, you should, if Ramtha helps, even though its very similiar to a lot of Eastern Practise e.g. trataka (candle focus), The Void (Zen Meditation), The Dance (Chi Kung/Tai Chi) and various psychic games practised by Shamams and the like, do it, it doesn't matter, just as long as you didn't give up on finding your Original Self.

ex
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:18 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by ex » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:49 pm

yes it matters. it matters if a priest preaches about good or abuses kids. yes it matters if a sheikh talks about mohamed or radicals his listeners. yes it matters if you just run a show or you r honest.
if anyone believes in santa clause, 35000 year old warriors or other composite lead figures is a personal choice and i tend to respect this as long as it doesn't justifies anarchie, intolerance or violence. everybody should know the whole picture. hitler was a charismatic speaker. did it matter that he inspired also good people? does it matter when the kkk rallies in daylight and kills at night? does it matter to put a light on some ones dark side? we all have our failures. get the whole picture and make up your own mind. i heard ramtha before 2000 behind closed doors. it was not much different.
she he always ranted about everyone else.

Kelku
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:40 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Kelku » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:56 pm

Right Ex....

And Interested (O.), I think I know who you are. Haven't you started this before on EE, your little 'Ramtha is not too bad', '...if it helps....', the end justifies the means...' etc.?
Do I think JZ Knight is a fraud? Yes and NO
Ja, you are covering all possibilties here... :shock:
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

Paul
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:48 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Paul » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:52 pm

Scamtha is a Fraud. Look at the Merv Grifin Show in 1985 as he interviews Judith JZ Knight; its like watching a ten year old play Benjamin Franklin at the First Thanksgiving art show at your local grade school:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-HR2L5hVp0

ex
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:18 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by ex » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:35 pm

yes the change is too human. there is nobody leaving. there is just a blond turning into a bitter old hag. how can the attitudes of a 35000 year old whatever change in 25 years? do you have any motivation for ramtha never critisise jz but put everyone else in the dirt?

seriously
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by seriously » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:46 pm

Hey Interested. Welcome. Life, which includes your time at RSE Inc., is a journey. From your post, it's pretty obvious your belief systems are heavily influenced by spirituality and mysticism. Believe what you like and I wish you the best. Here's a bit of advice from a 3rd party with no skin in the game. Always look at who is gaining the most from any given situation or transaction. Ex: RSE Inc. JZ benefits financially and receives adulation from the participants. In a lot of other cults with male gurus, you can add sexual gratification to the list.

Don't limit this to your spiritual life. If someone is trying to sell you something that's fantastic (ex: magic elixir), ask yourself who is gaining from this exchange. Is there sufficient motive on the seller's part to deceive you? If you feel pressured to make a decision or participate in something, always take a step back and ask yourself if you're the one benefiting or are you making the decision out of fear or pressure.

I spent time at RSE Inc. and have been inundated with the teachings since I was 16. I'm now 42. I know Ramtha isn't real. I never witnessed anything extraordinary at the ranch. My family has been in for 20+ years. They're aging. They can't read cards, manifest, etc etc. It's a scam. Who has benefited more from 20+ years of purchasing CDs, books, events, JZ Rose shopping, pictures of JZ around the house, blind devotion, etc.? If you look at it objectively, I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Interested
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:15 am

To the Person who said "they know who I am" -- weird, I have never posted on this forum before ... :roll:

For me, is started with meeting someone who went to the Ramtha school of enlightenment close to studying Martial Arts/Zen in the E. Coast of the US and meeting one of the Tai Chi Masters who showed him with his own Chi, how to turn cold water into hot water. He eventually ended up studying at Ramtha, although being a Zen Buddhist, he had already had some training.

No one really addressed my point, but instead of it was "Ramtha anger. Ramtha anger". I was saying that to get over your "Ramtha anger", as that isn't going to help either. That knowledge was real, there are countless stories of people who have done the things that he described, maybe none of us are Mediums, gifted psychics, can levitate but it doesn't mean that others can't.

Obvious, I am in love all things esoteric, I painted that pretty strong and my most sorrowful moment was when my friend, 'The Sceptic" he used to call himself hung himself and 7 years later, after blocking me from his life, the night of his death, coming to my house and moving things around, crazy stuff and talking to my friend, who is a Meduim about how he has chnaged his mind about Athiest and now wants to learn about Spirituality. Bah!

So I say, Ramtha, I believe DID exist, but as said, he said he would leave and he did. Is JZ aware that he is gone? Surely she is, I don't know but I am convinced that he is gone and has been for many-many years. Were the teachings from teh 80's and 90's fantastic, absolutely. Were they new? Well, in some respects yes, but as previously stated, a lot of the information shared was written in a lot of Eastern Philosophy, so not information that was unheard off.

My friend, again who I wrote about before, said that he knew of a Taoist in Chicago who won the lotto three times, as he wanted to fix up the Taoist temples. There is a story of a gym instructor in teh US who also won the lotto two or three times, but he spent years in front of a piece of paper, repeating "I have won" -- thus he won and kept winning, did the Taoist or gym instructor study at Ramtha, no, does it matter, NO! It doesn't matter, the inforamtion was the same that you create your own reality, so you can be angry and write about how Ramtha is a rapist, murderer, etc, it means nothign to me, because that is not the point and if you can't remember the point anymore, after studying at The Ramtha School of Enlightenment, key word, Enlightenment, than you deserve your own victimhood, because that was the Point, your Victimhood.

Other people have done amazing things, so can we. With or without Ramtha, Ramtha who I believe, is no longer with JZ Knight.

Ockham
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:31 am

Interested is right. "Ramtha," is shorthand for a collection of mostly egocentric philosophical ideas cherry-picked from christianity, buddhism, hinduism, theosophy and new age pop culture. There is nothing new under the Sun with, "Ramtha;" it is all ideas you could read for free at a public library or browse on Wikipedia. The difference is that at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment one pays hundreds or even thousands of dollars per event to get a light weight treatment of matters philosophical by an apparently often intoxicated Judy Knight and staff teachers of unknown qualification.

In summary, Ramtha's School of Enlightenment is to philosophical education as North Shore Community College is to Harvard. Veritas baby!

Lost in Space
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Lost in Space » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:41 am

I like the way you say things, Okham.
And, Interested, I find your post interesting. I see some sense it what you say, yet also, the circular argument about "buying into your own victimhood" which should somehow justify those who actually have done wrong and caused injury to others. "If you didn't pre-choose or manifest that, it wouldn't have happened." Well, I think that is the opposite of compassionate or enlightened, although that is just my opinion. I am 100% responsible for myself, true, but I am 0% responsible FOR everybody else, although I may be responsible TO them, and it is the responsibility to behave decently towards others that is being shot down with that argument of "well they manifested that, so they deserved it", and I find that disturbing no matter where it shows it's ugly head, whether in a temple, a marketplace, a home, or a school.
Also, I think that SHARING enlightenment is way more impressive than PEDDLING enlightenment.

Ockham
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:16 am

Any of the stories I've heard about, "manifesting," by RSE staff or stundents are apochryphal at best. I know students of RSE, and I first-hand haven't seen them do or manifest anything out of the ordinary. I don't understand why manifesting is convoluted. If one needs a car, temple, or whatever, why not manifest it? Why is it necessary to take a side track and win a lottery prize?

My counter example is that I won a first place prize in a radio station sweepstakes merely by mailing a post card on an impulse. I didn't do any disciplines or draw pots of gold on index cards. I even forgot I entered the contest, and was very surprised when I got a call from the radio station several months later.

ex
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by ex » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:33 am

ramtha anger ? you can believe whatever you like. the next multilevel marketer is your next santa clause. or your house ghost find his ways being a good ramtha follower. go and speak to ramsters they will tell you how they got rich drunks going out of their bodies.... and they share your believes. if you don't wanna listen what we have to say: good by.

Ockham
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:35 am

Thanks Lost in Space. You also bring up an important point. That buying into your own victimhood stuff drives me crazy when I'm around ramsters. Any innocuous thing can be turned on its head - "Now you said it. You're going to manifest it." Arrrgh! I have a feeling that along the way, any number of angst filled teenagers would have had sufficiently negative thoughts that the world would have ended long ago if that were true! Thank goodness we are still here.

Interested
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:08 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:35 am

Thanks for your good responses.

Yes, it's a tough one.

I didn't study at Ramtha, but was given a lot of Ramtha videos from an ex-Ramtha person and found that the old materials changed me in teh sense that, it took all the things I felt into, for me, a more assertive foundation e.g. I am God/I am from God. Where previously I didn't believe in an External God, through the old Ramtha materials, I could finally see that, for me, I was from the Universe, I am Energy, I am Mind, thus, I am that, too. In terms upon the anger that a lot of you have experienced, I guess I am distant, becuase it was not my experience or my money going down the drain, so I am not too good at understanding what you all experienced, it does seem that the Ramtha stories got more crazy pos-2000. I did meet a woman who was part of the crazy story where a young woman was manipulated into having sex with a Man and Ramtha pulled the Couple (the married woman and man) on stage and humiliated them for forcing the young girl into having sex, the ex-wife I met said it was a terrible time, as she wasn't aware that her Husband was behaving so manipulating behind her back, so it seems that ppl can, like in any Group, changing what is taught for their own fruition.

I haven't been doing the disciplines (prayers and tra ta ka) for 1 year, due to the suicide one year ago, and two weeks ago, I realised I was not very aligned and have been doing the prayers again, within a week, I had a job on a mining site and using teh tra ta ka technique, I "manifested" a job interview next week, where I want to work. Now, your argument, re: winning stuff, is could I have done this without the prayers? Maybe. The focus technique I was using seemed to make things go faster, that said, I don't want to work in mining anymore, as sleeping on site always gives me dreams about murder and rape, so I see that my Thoughts need to be change, as I don't give myself enough credit and force myself, using thoughts (forced energy), to a new industry, which is how I got in, to begin with, forcing my energy.

Now, could I do this to win a luxury home as an example. How do others win, without doing prayers? What thoughts do they have? What thoughts did you have when you won your prize? It's difficult, becuase we have so many thoughts and feelings, so difficult to really ascertain what we think and feel, when we feel and think too much. I have been studying Buddhist Mindfullness and the idea is to be aware of what you're thinking, observe your thoughts/feelings, choose your reactions/actions and I can see, in my Teachers eyes, innocence & purity, that said, there is a lot of money in the new age game, ppl are searching, I haven't "found", I don't know if you ever do, but I believe that I am getting close, it's not about "Ramtha" for me, but just learning to be aware of my subconscious Mind, let go of tings that no longer are needed e.g. kinesiology test recently stated that I am still holding onto childhood birthing trauma (I was a cecearian sp?) baby)... It seems that it is true, in order to just 'let go', you have to change your mind, but thats the hard part, because the Mind is so strong, hence why yoga, meditation, prayers, Network Chiropractic, Raw Food, Good Health, laughter, lots of silliness and joy is needed, to make it easier to let go of all of our petty issues. It's alife process.

Do I still listen to the Ramtha tapes? I do, if I need some inspiration e.g. I spent three months not doing any yoga or meditation and it left me less-aware, so for me, throwing on one of teh 80's Ramtha tapes is just what I need to inspire me again, to care about myself and do prayers, do tra ta ka (candle focus), do Chi Kung (move Chi around the body), because I know what happens when I don't, and it's not good.

But I enjoy reading this forum often. I love reading about yoru stories, it helps give me perspective and reminds me that Ramtha really isn't there anymore, so to avoid JZ Knights school, but I don't need to avoid his Teachings, which were, find your Original Self, that God within me. I know it is there, it's just that I hold on to so many emotions in my very cells, that don't serve me anymore, effected by it, but know that if I want to chagne my forever, I have to be active and keep working on myself, because it feels like this Self, is all I have got.

Ockham
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:45 am

Thank you, Interested. I appreciate you shatring how you have used the RSE materials constructively and obtained good results. This shows there are two sides to a coin. The books and tapes are a more affordable alternative to RSE's in-person school. This is a good object lesson that a prospective student is probably just as welll off with the books and skipping the expense and tedium of travelling to Yelm or watching RSE's Internet live streams. It is just as well to skip the hours of JZ Knight (or is it Ramtha?) berating the Catholic Church, Mexicans and people who eat organic diets; it is hard to see the enlightenment in that.

Interested
Posts: 19
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:00 am

Thanks.

I can't speak for the Organic Diet, but I did try the Raw food Diet for 6 weeks, coincidning with Chi Kung, Prayers @ 5 am and then tra-ta-ka (candle focus) and prayers again in the evening, several years ago.
The result = A few people told me that they usually can't see auras, but they could see mine, it was really bright and golden (I was covering myself in gold); so I know that it can change you, but I stopped diong it cos it was hard work (stopped the raw food diet that Ramtha did advocate) and everything else and the bright aura deminished, no one ever commented again.

I don't just listen to Ramtha for inspiration i.e. inspiration for me is having someone/anyone tell me to give a shit about myself; I listen to many other sources, Carolynn Myss, Louise Hay are also good; sometimes, it's easier to be lazy and just watch TV, unfortunately, it doesn't get me very far, very quickly, hence needing to listen to, say, Ramtha tapes every so often, as it's hard talking about these things with a lot of people I know. We are all so busy.

Jingz
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Jingz » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:38 am

Hi Interested, nice of you to join us here! You are obviously a seeker, as all of on this forum. You are correct when you refer to some of the rambles material is beautiful, it speaks to us with almost an internal vibration of truth. Especially for those of us who hadn't heard anything like it before, that's the hook. You want to continue your education, read Vera Stanley Alder Finding the Third Eye (you can get it free online, sorry not savvy enough to include the URL link) and I promise you, in some cases right down to the plagiarized language, is where all the material is stolen from. You want predictions? Cruise on over to Edgar Cayce, you will find many there, and again shes not even smart enough to change the language "in the twinkling of an eye" how many times is that on your tapes? Well it is directly out of an Edgar Cayce prophesy from the 1920's. Poor jz, she didn't factor on the Internet in the lat 70's early 80's, luckily for her many of her followers are too broke to afford a computer let alone wifi. Read the posts, no doubt there are jewels hidden under all that horseshit, it's the manipulation and abuse that we all have a problem with! The flagrant plagiarism packaged in gold and ribbons that she has the audacity to copyright! And now she thinks she scaring people based on her confidentiality agreement. Well this is where you can tell the alcohol has taken it's toll on her poor over inflated ego. Opening herself to litigation, anything can happen. Maybe some eager lawyer may want to investigate where these 'original' ideas have come from, the very ones we're apparently not allowed to share. She's such a dumb ass she's keeping the story of the leaked videos in the news! Here's a tip to your brilliant marketing team: you want to spin this, show the world ONE example of the miraculous that you speak, bring rambles out himself, that will show us all what the truth is. Considering I am no longer a dumb ass, I won't hold my breath, but will enjoy watching her greed an ego be her tragic flaw!

Interested
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:08 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:44 am

Thanks Jinz

Yes, we all are Seekers. I like them the most.

I have not heard of Vera Stanley Alder before, I will google sometime today. I always love finding correlations, its like everything is a Big Puzzle.

Ockham
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Ockham » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:18 am

Finding the Third Eye is available on line. Vera Stanley Alder authored a number of books. I have been looking for From the Mundane to the Magnificent. The latter text is rather difficult to find; it is the one Alder text that has been out of print since the 1970s. Several writers on EMF have noted that FTMTTM contains passages that are virtually verbatim text that appears in RSE books, such that describing as webs blue body, etc. Alder wrote much of her work before JZ Knight was born or when Knight was a toddler. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd be inclined to suspect that RSE tried to buy up all circulating copies of the book, and was paying to keep it out of reprint. Reading Alder makes it obvious that RSE supposedly original teaching was already extant and available without the need of Ramtha. Also note the, "white book," Ramtha was ghost written form notes taken from JZ Knight's Ramtha presentations in the 1980s. Later editions of Ramtha changed the attribution and only acknowledge , "JZ Knight and Ramtha." The same author, Steven L Weinberg, also wrote Love Yourself Into Life, which I believe is the original text, pre-RSE. I was also able to find this on line in PDF format.

Kelku
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Kelku » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:38 pm

I apologize, Interested, I don't know you and confused you with somebody else.
Sorry :-?

Silvia
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

freemysoul
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:04 am

Hello Interested, welcome. After reading your posts, it is still unclear to me what you wish to find here. If you find "ramtha" still helpful to you, and live those types of philosophies, and justify JZ Knights deviant behavior, what could we here, at a site created by former students of RSE, to make public the destructive, deceptive and illegal activities regarding JZ Knight at RSE possibly have to offer you. It is obvious to me, that you don't believe you were harmed in any way by rse's rhetoric, contrary to that, what you have found there is very helpful to you in your life, except the fact that you seem to think that this 'ramtha' left and another 'ramtha' took its place, what is it about a site focused on recovering from JZ Knight's deceit and manipulation that has you interested? From what I read of your posts, you looked to be trying to convince people of their "victimhood", and other outlandish fantastical nonsense, which to me, I take very personally. Trying to convince people on this site that the unrealistic and new agey BS is somehow greener on the other side doesn't fly. If you want to believe in JZ Knights harmful rhetoric, have at it, just don't come here spewing that garbage like we just don't understand or maybe we missed something of value in those pearls of wisdom you seem to have grasped. I know, I KNOW from my YEARS of experience that there is no such thing as ORBS or people seeing our 'auras', no such thing as winning the lottery because you wanted to real bad or wished it so, there is no such thing as most of all of what you choose to believe to me, because I KNOW from EXPERIENCE, not just that I don't want to believe in it, or I don't believe in it enough, I KNOW from EXPERIENCE. There is a giant leap you make in your logic, where you skip over truth based things like reality, science, and seeing with our own eyes, that allows you to accept unproven, undocumented things because you want to, not because you have verifiable proof or tangible evidence. I have made my logic very simple, very realistic, and very healthy for a person who was once as immersed as you in the nonsense of the supernatural, and I won't sit idly by as you make flippant remarks about 'victimhood', its extremely offensive and uncaring, and has been said by others UNENLIGHTENED. So I would like to ask you very bluntly, What are you doing here? What is it you wish to gain by communicating with people recovering from the same symptoms you both exhibit and embrace?

Lost in Space
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:30 am

Freemysoul, I understand the points you make. I did kind of think, though, that Interested's comments were in keeping with the theme of this particular part of the forum: "RSE Supporters Debate Forum". I guess it is only to be expected that some posters here are actually RSE Supporters, right?

ex
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:18 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by ex » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:43 am

thank you free my soul.
that is sadly were a discussion with a rse supporter goes. there is a mountain of facts the people here gathered. than someone comes along and brings ramtha got tested by scientists....or i had such good experiences with blowing my brains out...or but the teachings......
please is there no other kind of supporter. they are all the same they are going in circles. that should be already proof enough for being in a cult.
no matter how polite they start they try exactly what fms describes.

Rooster
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Rooster » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:45 am

Agreed ex!

Kelku
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Kelku » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:26 pm

Thank you Freemysoul, you spoke my mind....

and I would like to carry bluntness further and ask Interested to politely refrain from further 'inquiries' of such kind.
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

freemysoul
Posts: 362
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Lostinspace, I appreciate that this is a JZK/R RSE Supporters debate forum, and I would love to debate with Interested the merits of rse and jz knights harmful propaganda. Having found none, merits that is, I went directly through the bullshit to question Interested's intent. I know this, from my many years of experience, there is no debating a person in Interested's condition, its not a fair fight. I don't know what is so wrong, with strongly stating my own opinion, and questioning the intent of a poster, who obviously is trying to spread the same dis ease which nearly cost me and many friends of mine their lives. I can appreciate that Interested has found their way here, to a site whose primary goal is to be a beacon to those whose lives and lives of their loved ones have been devastated by JZ Knight, to spread that same new age nonsense that Interested has been going on and on about since post one and is the exact tool jz uses to ensnare those who only want to believe in something greater than themselves, and if Interested were coming to this site, questioning their involvement with rse, while still being a current member, that would be another thing entirely. Just because we have an rse supporters page, doesn't mean we are going to turn it into a jz knight fan club or a channeler's forum, that is not why it was created. There are plenty of New Age belief sites on the internet, this is not one of them. Thank you Lostinspace, I hope this answered your question, and I have one for you. What good does allowing Interested to post their ongoing lifestyle of denial, delusion, and cult mentality for a site such as this one, unquestioned and unconfronted? And my follow up question would be: What harm is there in the same?

Lost in Space
Posts: 375
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:13 pm

Dear Freemysoul:

I believe that Interested HAS expressed doubts about Ramtha, insofar as he or she is somewhat critical of the current state of the teachings and the school. In spite of the "New Age" mindset, which many non-Ramsters also share by the way, I do not think that Interested is here to promote RSE so much as he or she is here to explore what appear in his or her mind to be issues about it and perhaps to understand where you all are coming from.
I noted that Interested, here or perhaps in another posting, remarks that they did not pay for events but were instead given tapes and videos. Interested has also said that they follow the teachings of several other shools of thought or gurus.
Many people here have expressed that very same idea over the years, that Ramtha used to be present but is now absent.
I think, personally, as someone who has loved ones in RSE, that the absolute repudiation of everything RSE and the idea of Ramtha stand for is too lofty a goal for most ex-students, and not really to be expected. In at least one case of which I am aware that standard led to a nervous breakdown which might have been avoided had the person allowed themself the illusion that all those years had been worthwhile in some small way.
As an outsider, it seems to me that what is objectionalbe about RSE is not the New Age or magical teachings (which mostly are not so original to RSE), but rather, the doom and gloom predictions and the effects these may have on the lives and life choices of students, as well as the castigation of students and self-castigation by students of themselves, not to mention the financial havock that may be wreaked by trying to stay 'current'.
That being said, you are right, it is not good to have newly exitting students exposed to the same 'stuff' they are trying to grapple with in their own minds and have come to question. I was not criticizing you, Freemysoul, I was asking a question.
Respectfull, LIS

Lost in Space
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Lost in Space » Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:20 pm

As well, if we apply your standard of reality testing, all religions and many philosophies would be thrown out as failing it. We can't PROVE, for example, or see with out own eyes, that Christ ever existed, or that Mohammed was for real. And science has become a religion for some. " There are more things in Heaven and on Earth than are in your imagining." A faith can also have beneficial effects. I am not, though, recommending RSE as one that is salutory.

Interested
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:40 am

Thanks LostinSpace, you most certainly hit the nail on the head, in respect to freemysoul's recent post, as you have clearly read my posts, including noting that I don't think that everything Ramtha has said makes sense. That said, I did once spend time focusing on "The Blue Star" and after I had finished focusing on it for 10 minutes, I could feel the beat of the Ocean Floor (I was at the beach), something I had never felt before, so I don't discount ALL of the teachings, I believe that discounting EVERYTHING is a closed, as there were some amazing things in there. Another example is eating a raw food diet, I did it, and I have never felt so happy in my life (but my addictions came back and haunted me). Ramtha said, spend time in "The Void", the void imo is just Zen Meditation, he talks about "The Dance" -- that's just Chi Kung, now I know personally a Chi Kung Master in Wellington, New Zealand who goes to California yearly and heals peoples Cancer. His website is http://www.yuantzecentre.com/about_yuan_tze.html
Now, am I going to dismiss everything, because Ramtha ALSO said it? That would be stupid.
I don't advocate Catholicsm by any means, I grew up Agnostic, but there are stories of levitation in Catholicsm, I am going to say everything in Christianity is invalid, because I haven't personally seen it? It's not my truth, that is true, but I am open to the possibility that Humankind is not just "sex, cars and rock n roll" - that there is so much more, that we have lost.

The old Ramtha, from the 80's and 90's really did hit home for me, in a way that Eastern Thought never could, although, saying the same thing, said in a way that was far more easier for my western mind to grasp. Books like "The Immortal Sisters" in Taoism, and other books, all talk about the techniques that were being used to attain immortality, the Egytians have obsessed with it since antiquity, but for some reason, for me, it was the Ramtha materials that made me realise that this is potentially something that I could understand and develop, hence the reason I actually started Qi Gong to begin with, otherwise, I would have just put it in the "asian section" in my brain, and continued to ignore it. Do I believe that I will find my Original Self in this life time? Well I guess to use Ramtha's frame of reference (Doubt), I doubt I will, do I believe that it is possible for me to continue working on actively on myself, with the proof for that, by my personal experiences of intuition, inspiration, self-healing and love? if that is all the proof i have right now, then to use Ramtha's quote (I use his quote in irony btw), So be it; but really, I refuse to purely stagnate spiritually because RSE has too many discrepancies, so does Tibetan Buddhism, with the Dalai Lama being "in bed" with the CIA, Science too, has many flaws and discrepencies, you get to a point that you can go crazy, not from Ramtha, RSE, but from being a sceptic 24/7 and seeing everything as wrong and implausible, like EVERYTHING, and that is a boring life, too.

I don't want a boring life of 24/7 Sceptic, I want some scepticsm, that is important, but not 100%, Change is my goal and I am open to anyway to do that. i love growth.

freemysoul
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by freemysoul » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:57 am

Interested,
I am giving you notice, that no more Pro Ramtha/JZ Knight posts will be tolerated further by you. If you insist on posting quotes from JZ Knight or continue flooding your posts with New Aged, Ramtha based ideas, quotes and advice from a proven Sociopath and destroyer of lives, your posts with be removed without notice. I also would request that you read my post to you, and if possible, answer the simple questions I made of you.
Thank you,
Freemysoul

freemysoul
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by freemysoul » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:25 am

Interested,
I have removed your post. This is a debate forum, and that is not what you are using it for. You are simply spreading your message of how innocent, harmless and helpful JZ and her cult are, and that will not be tolerated, nor will your demeaning and vitriolic posts be tolerated. If you wish to post how wonderful your life is due to what JZ Knight has you convinced of, feel free to go to her site, or others like it and spread that nonsense there, as it won't be tolerated here. If you wish to post another demeaning and insulting post, it also will be removed and if you continue, so will you. Please use this site for what it is intended, and that is not for sharing your glowing perspective on ramtha, rse, and her style of new age hokey nonsense. You obviously have no intention of leaving the destructive and dubious ideals that JZ Knight stands for, just the opposite, you intend to seek out others who are like minded and just as harmful, and that is completely your right, however counterproductive to sanity and recovery from cult abuse. I have asked you twice now what you are doing here, and you have refused to answer me with your words, but your actions speak loudly. You wish to come to this site debunking the harm in ramtha and similar destructive, manipulative ideas, and have shared and justified repeatedly your delusional practices ad nauseam. This is not only counter productive to the goals of this site, but has the potential for great harm to those wishing to escape the clutches of JZ Knights manipulative and harmful ways.

Interested
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:08 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:33 am

As said, just delete all of my posts, like I have requested.

A debate forum means, many different opinions. If you're going to create a "debate forum" and then delete posts that are pro-Ramtha (when its in the Debate forum"), and you think its OK for you to write about how deluded I am, and then delete your posts when you have not been impeccable and become extremely emotional, to give you time to calm down emotionally, come back and give me the "talk" about how I am not allowed to debate, in the DEBATE forum.

This stance is the height of hypocrisy, it is imperative that you delete all of my posts thus deleting my alias, as Interested.

ex
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by ex » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:38 am

are you serious intrested? what are you talking about? it was always the same there is no good old ramtha. jz pulled her materials twisted them a little bit and sold them to hungry people like you. she showed up on seminars and threatened her students listening to someone else. you should listen to fms
there is more knowledge than 3 seminars. we all know what a sweetheart jz is in public and what she pulls behind closed doors. why do you think we went to rse? some of us have more than 10 events on our backs. why do you think we became sceptics? because ramtha had all the answers and we r all pitiful lost souls who need some new perspective? you stated nothing new here.
rse is a cult and jzs ramtha a delusion. if you love to believe in santa and the tooth ferry that's up to you. they left when i was 8 but before they were all cool and dandy.
[i also have some punctuation and grammar problems so sorry for that]

freemysoul
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by freemysoul » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:46 am

Interested,
You have confused Debate with Proselytizing. This Debate forum is just that, and like I have said before, you are not debating, only advertising your personal lifestyle choice of living a life in JZ Knights nightmarish reality of fear and manipulation.
I will not be dictated to by you by removing all your posts. They will be left for others to see and judge for themselves the merits of rse and JZ Knight. It will also be educational for people to be able to recognize someone who is living in denial and delusion, having thrown critical thought right out the window with common sense. If you wish to stay on this site, I would suggest you follow the simple instructions of not proselytizing and recruiting. If you wanted to leave or question rse and it harmful ways, you would have made that very clear, but it is obvious what you are here for and that will not be tolerated.

ex
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:18 am

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by ex » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:48 am

don't save him the embaresment. put his bull... back on.
evolution is a ancient concept... i still can laugh my ass off. put some big words into mixed up gibberish and talk smart. diden't i saw this somewere?

Interested
Posts: 19
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Interested » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:38 am

The only thing i am interested in, is knowledge, it doesnt' matter where it comes from ... whether that is ramtha, buddhism/taoist thought, or a child.
I read the rules of teh debate forum, it clearly says its OK to be "Pro-Ramtha" in there and the fact that what I wrote was deleted in pure hypocrisy. Considering I wasn't even writing about Ramtha, but Eastern Philosophy and the correlations between Ramtha and what "every other Tom, Dick & Harry" have said for yesteryear, it is just sad, that it is come to this.

Out.

RoyGBiv
Posts: 118
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by RoyGBiv » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:44 am

maybe you should seek your knowledge elsewhere, dude.
after you get trashed, come on back and we'll be here for you.

seriously
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by seriously » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:43 am

I think Interested is living on a plane of existence I'm very glad to not be a part of. however this is the one area of EMF where we should tolerate pro JZ ramblings. I get it from my family but maybe other EMF members are no longer exposed to it and it can be used as a reminder or yardstick to see how far you've come in your recovery.

Ockham
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by Ockham » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:38 am

One thing I can add is that it is difficult to try the experiment both ways with just yourself. If out do the hours and hours of candle focus, meditation, C+E, etc., etc., you just might have great things happen to you - perhaps get an interview and land a great job or purchase a lottery ticket with a big pay out. What you can't do is to rewind and try it again without the disciplines to see if you still land the job and hit the lottery. Note that I don't buy into time travel remote viewing as taught by RSE; there is no believable demonstration that remote viewing is real. I don't want to get tripped up arguing that right now, but suffice it to say, yes it is possible, but not likely in the rule set with which this particular universe has condensed.

My personal choice is to do applied disciplines as it were. I spent hours and hours of concentration and got a professional certification and that did indeed get me an interview and success landing a job I had decided I wanted. I could have done C+E instead' but I'll bet I wouldn't have had the applied knowledge to be successful in the interview. Similarly, I can't rewind and try it with the RSE way instead. I tend to be rather applied about such things and I can see A implies B implies C in the route I took. Focus and meditation are great, but that seems to lead to an indefinite outcome. I could see a place for some of RSE's exercises to build self confidence where I would need to project belief in myself in front of an interviewer - something you've got to be able to do to seal the deal in an interview. If you want to spend a lot of money at RSE for soft skills, so be it. Self confidence may get you in the door, but you probably won't go too far without a fact based education as well to back it up.

I don't do formal exercises and extended prayer sessions the way it is taught by RSE. I am certainly aware of God and understand myself as part o God and the universe, I try to let that awareness be part of everything all day long. I don't see the point of not having that be an integral part of life in general. If so, then one needn't set aside separate time for disciplines, and the time that would have been dedicated to disciplines can be used toward work that supports overall spiritual and secular goals. Spiritual goals don't necessarily have to be separate from secular goals. Siddhartha recommended the middle path and that is the approach I try to have, keeping moderation and balance in life, taking time to enjoy and appreciate whatever I have and whatever I am.

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David McCarthy
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Re: Ramtha would leave I think it was 2000

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:54 am

Hello Interested....Everyone, thank you for your posts... :idea:

Interested,
Our moderator freemysoul has deemed several of your posts as proselytizing RSE doctrines with scant regard to debating the issues they present. These posts have been removed from this forum.
Why? When an RSE member/supporter drifts into philosophizing 'Ramtha' quotations' while circling around the possible good of RSE
this is not a debate at all, but a nice chat over coffee, this is valuable and fun to be sure,
but our RSE supporters debate forum was not created for this form of exchange.
Why?
Please stretch your understanding....
For most EMF members RSE/JZ Knight has devastated their lives, a spiritual rape by a clever sociopath just about sums it up.
Some of the information you are advocating is what JZ Knight dresses her 'Ramtha' charade around for camouflage,
It is this that with respectable debate, I hope would become clear to you and perhaps save your life, or someone near and dear to you from a cultic recruitment, indoctrination and immersion such as RSE,Inc.
I hope you understand as I feel you are sincere but somewhat not willing to look into the dark and hard questions
of RSE and its building blocks. This takes a more digging and respectful debate.

All the best to you in your seeking of meaning and journey in life.

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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