JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

The RSE supporter’s debate forum is the ONLY place on EMF where supportive based posts regarding the teachings and concepts of RSE will be tolerated. EMF supporters please do not start new topic threads here.
RSE proselytizing may be deleted without notice.
Please take the time to read our EMF POSTING GUIDELINES: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3
User avatar
David McCarthy
Site Admin
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:47 am

Hi Mike,
I have another question for you to add to our unanswered list.
Do you share the opinion/belief with 'JZ-Ramtha' that murder is not wrong or evil?
This is as much a question for JZK /RSE students to address on EMF.... if you will.
Here is a direct quote pulled from ' Ramtha, The White Book. Circa RSE (1986)
Interesting to note that JZK has changed the publication date from 1986 to 2005.
What happened to the Steven L. Weinberg (Mar 1986) version?
Thanks,
David.
Ramtha, The White Book:
Chapter Thirteen. Page 125 - 126
"Student: Well, for example, if someone harmed my daughter, it's evil because, let’s say, she might die.
Ramtha: That is your judgment of evil. But what is evil about dying?
Student: So you don’t even think that killing someone is evil?
Ramtha: That is correct, because I have not limited myself by believing in the ending of any one thing, for nothing is ever destroyed — ever.
So if an entity dies, what is the loss in death?
The Father, in his Isness and eternalness of ongoing life, has nor created any one thing greater than himself that could disturb the guarantee of all existence. What the Father created, master, nothing can put under; it will eternally live. So your child would not have been destroyed, because nothing can destroy the life of God.
Student: So you’re saying that even murder is not wrong or evil.
Ramtha: That is correct."
Related:
(EMF) Online Forum • View topic - 'The White Book' Steven Weinberg Speaks Out...
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=701&p=15595&hilit=Weinberg#p15595

Ramtha: The White Book - Google Books:
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=gz78 ... use,+let's

Amazon.com: ramtha the white book Steve Wienberg: Books
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... rds=ramtha
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

joe sz
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by joe sz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:06 am

Thanks for posting this old Ramtha White Book chestnut:
murder is not wrong or evil. that is correct.
More than anything it proves how stupid and inept a philosopher JZ is.

I looked at the amazon ratings again for the white book readers. out of 65 reviews, 53 gave the WB a five-star rating. Anyone with half an insight into reality would never bother to read this book to review it...a waste of time...so those that do read it are by far those already within the New Age milieu believing I am the God within me therefore nothing can be wrong in the end.

Among the few one-star critics that review the book is a Steven Smith:
Skeptics point to Ramtha's story as proof that he does not exist. Ramtha claims to come from the continent of Lemuria and to have conquered Atlantis. The existence of the two locations are considered of legendary nature, and neither have been found. Furthermore, the claim that Ramtha led an army of 2.5 million contradicts estimates of the world population at 33,000 BC, and her claims of clairvoyant, telepathic, telekinetic and other ESP abilities, for which there is no scientific support, have been heavily criticised by skeptics and scientific communities across the world.
Ramtha's claim that every person can learn to create their own reality is itself a philosophical paradox. Julian Baggini, in his book "The pig that wants to be eaten" argues that if everyone was capable of creating their own realities with their minds, it would be problematic as one person could then create a reality in which no one was allowed to create their own realities.
Carl Sagan in his book The Demon-Haunted World says that "the simplest hypothesis is that Ms. Knight makes 'Ramtha' speak all by herself, and that she has no contact with disembodied entities from the Pleistocene Ice Age." He goes on to write a list of questions that Ramtha's answers would help us determine whether he is actually a disembodied entity from the paleolithic times (such as "What were the indigenous languages, and social structure?", "What was their writing like?" or "How does he know that he lived 35,000 years ago?"), and ends by saying that "instead, all we are offered are banal homilies."

JZ Knight's ex-husband, Jeff Knight, in an interview in 1992 with Joe Szimhart, said that Ramtha's teachings are a "farce" and that they are "just a money making business for [JZ Knight]". He also said that students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment are "involved in a very dangerous, very evil corrupt thing".

Attacks and criticism against Ramtha's teachings and Ramtha's School of Enlightenment have also been made by former students of the school. David McCarthy, a Yelm resident and former student of the School between 1989 and 1996, has accused the School of being a cult. He further claims that he was intimidated during his studies there, and he felt like mind control was being exerted by JZ Knight and the school. He said "At one point I was running around scared I was going to get eaten by the lizard people." McCarthy became disappointed, not only with his own experience of Ramtha's teachings but also as he had cut ties from his family to become a student as they lived in a different country. This lead McCarthy to form the website Enlighten Me Free (EMF) and a group called "Life After Ramtha's School of Enlightenment", which questions the authenticity of Ramtha and encourages people to come out and express their experiences after their realisation that the RSE is a cult. The School has also been characterised as a cult by acclaimed skeptic Michael Shermer, in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things".

Glenn Cunningham, a former bodyguard of JZ Knight's, in an interview with David McCarthy details the inner workings of the Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, and criticizes various activities (such as trademarking ideas and phrases that had been coined by other authors many years before - for example, the idea of "Blue Body", or mixing quantum physics with new age ideas, which can be found in Vera Stanley Alder's "From the Mundane to the Magnificent", first published in 1979) of JZ Knight's and aspects of Ramtha which he simply saw as JZ Knight acting. Among the things he mentions is the fact that Ramtha mispronounces the same words that JZ Knight mispronounces, and that Ramtha quotes the same books that JZ Knight has read.

Furthermore, Ramtha's teachings as they are portrayed in the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know!?", not only in the general gist of the film (which was directed and funded by students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment) but also in instances where Ramtha is interviewed on screen, have been heavily criticised by the scientific community across the globe, and skeptics, such as James Randi.
In his teachings "Ramtha" has made several controversial statements such as that Christianity is a "backward" religion, that Jesus' parables can be explained by means of photon waves and probability, that "murder isn't really wrong or evil" (if one believes in reincarnation), or (during the court case JZ Knight v Jeff Knight) Jeff Knight stated that Ramtha had declared that HIV is Nature's way of 'getting rid of' homosexuality.Jeff Knight alleges that he lost years of his life by postponing modern medical treatment for his HIV infection, due to advice from his wife that Ramtha could heal him. The court decided against him, but he died before he could appeal the court's decision.

A FINAL WORD
-------------
English is a language developed from Germanic tribes collision with other influences of the last several centuries. Even the King James Bible version of English can give modern people trouble and English from the Dark Ages is almost another language. Language grows and evolves and so what people spoke in Lemuria 35,000 years ago would in no way at all resemble modern English. Why does Ramtha not speak in Lemurian? If Ramtha can remember all those things about his past then he certainly can remember to speak Lemurian yet he does not. The only conclusion is that there is no Ramtha, just a woman making up a character to entertain her audience. Trying to say that Ramtha can not speak Lemurian while being channeled but can remember a host of other wisdom just makes Ramtha look like an less-than-stellar prophet.

joe sz
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by joe sz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:35 am

So here is the question for Mike Wright:
Murder in societies worldwide throughout history is basically forbidden by rule of law for obvious reasons, one being the taking away the fundamental right to life of an innocent. This is why in ancient Greek medicine abortion was banned as well.

If JZ/R can dispense with the rule of law so frivolously regarding murder, why employ the rule of law when it comes to trademark, copyright, and liability waivers for RSE students?

Ockham
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by Ockham » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:37 am

How tastefully cognitively dissonant. Ms Knight manifested the reality of the public videos her physical self feigns not to like, Next Knight's physical self pursues denial of the manifestation by playing in the grey men's courts of law. So who own the reality? Is it Ms. Knight or somebody else? It must suck to have manifested a reality where one has lost control of the reality.

seriously
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by seriously » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:19 pm

Great review of the White Book. Thanks for posting. Maybe I'll make that my next read. I'm currently re-reading Last Waltz of the Tyrants which I purchased for $.01 (not kidding). Time permitting, I'm going to write a full book report on it.

joe sz
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by joe sz » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:09 pm

seriously et al....
you may have seen this review I posted not long ago, but here it is again:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2FB5GTRGH ... 5GTRGHNRZS
Ramtha Hokey Pokey, May 31, 2013
By J. SzimhartThis review is from: Last Waltz of the Tyrants: The Prophecy (Paperback)
The back and front covers of this small book indicate nothing much about its main focus: The dire and mostly dumb teachings of an imaginary being named Ramtha channeled by Judith Z Knight since the late 1970s. [see ramtha.org; enlightenmefree.com]. The book is based in part on Ramtha Dialogues or words that come out of the mouth of Judith Knight.

The "Disclaimer" under 1989 copyright: "...purpose of this book is to educate and entertain. The author [JZ/Ramtha], editors and publisher shall have neither liability nor responsibility to any person or entity with respect to any loss or damage caused, directly or indirectly, by the information contained in this book."

The editor used predictions by Ramtha in 1987 mainly for this book. At this writing the author called herself Judi Pope Koteen ["AKA Judi Pope, AKA Judi Zion, AKA Judi York AKA Judi Sion" by someone that lived with her for a time]. She was a devotee or follower/student of the Ramtha cult ("new religious movement" if you are a kind of sociologist) apparently for a few years but has since vanished from the Ramtha School of Enlightenment ranks, as so many have done before and since.

The book recounts channeled teachings of Ramtha about "graymen" [those shadowy bankers and governors in power on earth, those "Tyrants...who own the world" (36)] and how to get ready for the endtimes that JZ Knight has been spouting about as Ramtha for decades. One wonders why so many otherwise educated adults cannot see through this nonsense? Why would so many rather wonderful adults succumb to Jim Jones's command to die for a bogus cause in 1978 through ritual suicide?

Koteen quotes Ramtha: "And if you have enough gold and silver to last you until 2042, purchase land, but not in the city" (118), "And if it is simply a matter of relationships and you are going forward and living the Lord God of Your being and someone is holding you back, leave that person!" (119), "I would advise you to not take the mark of the beast, the debit card...then whole economies of the money system have to fall, worldwide, for ther debit card to be implemented as the salvation." (76), and if you do the blowing or hyperventilation thing taught by JZ K called C&E to help you reach "superconsiouness", you can beat death or "The moment the Seventh Seal [read 'crown chakra'] opens, the death hormone will be no more" (131). Thus far everyone in the RSE "school" is aging and fading or dying the same as we all do, including JZ Knight whose body and face show the ravages of drinking too much and smoking too much and eating too much overtime. If Ramtha's own "daughter" whose body "he" possesses or inhabits at times cannot beat death....well, you answer it.

It is now 2013. This ongoing doom prophecy is yet at the core of the Ramtha School and drives its devotees to go to session after session with the invisible teacher...or the leader's mind puppet, if you prefer.

Ockham
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by Ockham » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:16 am

Very funny: a whole $0.01! I know somebody who sells used books on Amazon, and he's got software that links to Amazon's popularity ranking to set his asking price. Less popular equals a lower price. One can conclude that $0.01 indicates not very popular.

There are at least three editions of the, "white," book whose actual title is, Ramtha. The original edition has some art work on the cover and Ramtha in Script. The original edition acknowledges Steven L. Weinberg as editor. The later edition has a plain white cover and Ramtha in small roman font, and the authorship is changed to, "JZ Knight and Ramtha." I'll wager that the text between the editions is virtually unchanged.

The following illustrations are courtesy of Amazon.com, free preview image pane on the web pages advertising these editions for sale in the United States. These images are used here for critique and educational purposes only:
page-1old.JPG
page-1new.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
David McCarthy
Site Admin
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: JZ Ramtha: even murder is not wrong or evil!!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:44 am

Thank you Joe, Ockham... :idea:
I wonder if JZK's new edited version still has the atrocious "Ramtha paragraphs > even murder is not wrong or evil" ?
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Post Reply

Return to “JZK/Ramtha RSE Supporters Debate Forum.”