The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

The RSE supporter’s debate forum is the ONLY place on EMF where supportive based posts regarding the teachings and concepts of RSE will be tolerated. EMF supporters please do not start new topic threads here.
RSE proselytizing may be deleted without notice.
Please take the time to read our EMF POSTING GUIDELINES: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3
MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:06 am

I've been reading over many threads here and it seems there only 'black and white'. Either you are a happy RSE student labeled (Cult follower) OR.... you appose RSE...see it as a cult....and also 'appose all it's teachings and everything about RSE. Is this true?

I'd like to express some things about my experience with RSE (good and bad). But I'm not going to waste a breath if 'nothing good' will be tollerated here.

I had my time in the school. I learned what I needed to learn and I left. I do think it is a cult. But that it does teach genuine information that one can apply and gain huge value from. I just want to do my own thing. I also want to speak my truth about my experience in the school and then state specifically all the points about it being a cult.

I'd like to make my point here and remain anonymous.

So can I say my piece here or not?

User avatar
David McCarthy
Site Admin
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:32 am

Hi MindState,
Welcome to EMF.
I'm sure I speak for most EMF members that so long as you are not here to promote JZK-R/RSE or post 'Ramtha' quotes
and willing to respectfully debate the issues "The Good, the Ugly, and the Bad"
so sure.... speak your piece.... :idea:
Can you share something about yourself and the time you attended RSE?
You believe 'The Great Work' is real, what does that mean to you?
Feel free to ask questions.....

David

Related:
EMF Rules For Posting, How to post and Registration Agreement Terms
The Enlighten Me Free (EMF) Forums has been created by former members of RSE to make public the destructive, deceptive and illegal activities regarding JZK,Inc, JZ Knight and the directors at RSE. Inc
EMF is also a place where former members of RSE, Family members and Friends can find support and information in regard to RSE and JZ Knight.
We are generally not concerned about theological issues but instead are more concerned about the psychological, physical, social and economic consequences of RSE involvement.
Religious debate does not belong on EMF.
The RSE supporter’s debate forum is the ONLY place on EMF where supportive based posts regarding the philosophies and concepts of RSE JZK/Ramtha will be tolerated.
Be sure you've read the rules for posting on this forum BEFORE you post. EMF is a moderated Forum. To contact the moderators email: enlightenmefree@gmail.com
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:36 pm

Hi David, ...Point understood!

I can assure all of you that I am by no means here to 'promote' RSE. This is more to give my soul some piece about some things I have kept bottled in for a long time. If any of my post seems like I am 'supporting'....it is the knowledge I 'learned and applied' I am supporting. Independent of RSE or where I learned it.

I'd like to express some things about my experience with RSE (good and bad) that I've kept to myself for many years now. It took a long time for me to sort out my experience with the school/cult. It was always hard for me to articulate what troubled me about the school. Where I stand here now is that I feel I must 'try to articulate it' and express it. So I can move on. There have been really no opportunities for me to express these things anyway. As people seem to be either completely 'devoted' to RSE...or hated RSE and everything about it (labeling it an evil cult and whatever). I'm not sure if this is the best place for me to post this...but I have found no other suitable place to say it. I hope I have found the correct thread to post this. I am compelled from my soul to get out my thoughts here about the matter. It will help give me some 'peace' within to write this and help me move on and heal. Even if it is long-winded....I hope that readers will keep an open mind and resist judgement. For I live a 'private' life and no one has the ability to judge the way I live it. I intend only to say this once and be done with it forever. I will wish to remain anonymous.

My feelings about RSE and my experience in it are that it is very much a cult. It displays so much of the qualities of cults. Not to be vague. I don’t ‘use’ cult simply just as some negative name about it because it rubbed me the wrong way or something. I got more out of my time there as a student than I could ever communicate to you! Maybe some of you will share this sympathy? What I mean by ‘cult’ is a dangerous ‘tool’ of gaining ‘power’. In light of that humans in the world play the ‘game of power’. It is a game. It is what humans do. And creating cults and growing them are a tool of power over people. From what I’ve observed, I can only come to the conclusion that RSE is just as much a cult and corporate force of power as the knowledge it teaches is genuine. The only way I can describe it simply is like ‘capitalistic spirituality’. The danger is the cult-atmospere around the school and how it traps the mind of the student. It is a trap. Dangerious thing is most students can’t see this and will combatively argue and deny it up and down and hate you if you ever tried to point this out to them. It is a very sophisticated trap. More on that later…
On the other hand, pretty much all of the fundamental spiritual teachings of the school I do support. For example, I don't know how 'former students' here can throw out the concept of 'God is within'! What you’re ‘atheist’ now? Agnostic? Whatever the case, to each their own!
I left the school about 5 or 6 years ago (for a number of reasons). Many things troubled me about the school. Pulling myself away felt natural but also very painful. My friends there fell away slowly as I was not attending events and it seems that was the only relevant factor that held our friendship together unfortunately. I didn’t set it up that way! And I won’t say necessarily, not all of them, it was like they all abandoned our friendship intentionally. All in all my desire to be there just fell away in 2009 and the pain was always difficult for me to understand until articulating this post here now.


The few years I was a student in RSE (2006-2009) was spent honing my discipline with the Henry Sugar cards every day. When I first started learning of RSE, I had this free-introductory DVD that contained footage of Kenney demonstrating the cards. When I saw that video at home, that was the main motivating factor that compelled me to attend my first event. There ,I saw Kenney and Debbie do the cards on stage and I was locked-in from that moment forward. That was my calling to the school. It would change and transform my life. And I needed that so much. I was never religious person or ‘spiritual’ in any sense. My life just needed the knowledge I learned there, and nothing more.
Also, I read many of you talk trash about Kenney Thompson. I’m not saying we should put him on any pedestal. Don’t put anyone on a pedestal! In his defense though… I would like to say that he is a respectable man and a beautiful soul. I have a great deal of love and respect for the man even though I can’t say he is a ‘friend’…because we don’t have that kind of connection. I’ve talked with him on many occasions in the past. He would recognize me if I met him again. I have no criticism of Kenny and have no place to judge anything he does. I wouldn’t ever have known about the work I did unless Kenny demonstrated it first. He played a very important role in inspiring many people at RSE. That was his destiny to do that. To me, he always felt like an ‘older brother’.
I can’t say for myself I desire to experience a similar celebration of things I accomplished or will yet accomplish in the great work as Kenny and many other students have been celebrated at RSE for. I suppose that is one of the things about ‘me’ that make me what I am. I can hear in my mind criticism of some of these students (who had their way with the ego and being celebrated) challenging that I never accomplished …and that is why I say these things. I can say honestly I was doing the same work for years quietly at home that many were being made ‘important’ people among the social atmosphere of the school for doing. I met them at the casino on many occasions also. I didn’t say a god damn word to them. I just observed them on so many occasions. Many of them.. and I strongly doubt they know who I am! I can say I don’t play like them in many regards. They draw so much attention to themselves and make such a display of it….it was comical watching them back then. Oh my god! You would not believe the acts of ‘display to make sure everyone knew what they were trying to do!’ It was really funny! Anyone could spot them a mile away! Did no one ever teach them at RSE to be invisible, make money, and take it home? They are losers who are set up to have the mouse trap closed on them the moment (if) they ever ‘truly’ achieve what they claim to want . I know some of them are quite well off and have not reason to conduct themselves with any concerns at the casino. Just there having fun pretending to be some character using some kind of power….Yah right! ‘Winning sometimes’ is not anything for a celebration. But if that’s fun pretending to be a winner…so be it!
How smart are you who claim that seeing the numbers is your ticket to ‘financial freedome’? Have you seriously examined just what that concept means in your own life? Have you examined what that reality will look like? I have never met or heard of any of them making their living 100% from casino play. None of them we know of are true pros. Shall I repeat this? Rank-amatures at best and gamblers are what they are and how they ‘behave like’. They even foolishly say “we’re not gambling”. Oh yes you are. Gambling is defined by the element of ‘risk’. When you folks play, there is ‘risk’ involved. You don’t always win. You have sessions that you lose. There is ‘risk’. Therefore you are a gambler. Come on! Do you take what you are doing ‘seriously’ or not?
Even when I was active at the casino and ‘seeing the numbers’ as other fellow students were practicing….I realized that I was playing a game that was not going to make me rich…by the simple realization that my developed ‘edge’ is ‘too-close-for-comfort’….and in all likelihood…it would probably always be ‘too close for comfort’ to make ‘large bets’. I couldn’t come there on a bad day and have my mood redeemed by a dependable success every single session I played at the casino. That troubled me. It’s a worthwhile skill to develop don’t get me wrong! All of you like to ‘personalize’ it as if it’s your humanity doing it. You have to have everyone know you do it! What kind of ‘Character’ are you people trying to be there in the casino? LOL You lack the humility, and seriousness to really walk the walk. Many of you are ‘losers’ in the casino. You play like gamblers. I have seen you lose. I have watched you go back for more money after you lose. Lose more and lose some more. Drink ….only to lose it again. Any success you may have been celebrated for…I caution you that it is ‘misleading’…..Gamblers don’t understand that short-term successes good and bad are misleading. I’m not sure that many of you truly have embraced how far you are from where you want to be. Enough to start being serious in your works! That finding ‘consistency’ you can depend on wherever you are at all times is a level you have yet to realize..I wonder if ANY of you will ever realize this for ‘real’. I also challenge you to spend more time at home testing…and working out a better ‘plan’. And what you want with these abilities and if you can start working it in a mature and sensible way. TO seriously figure out if this is a viable future! There are people in the world making a killing at the casino all over the world That’s a fact. True Pros. Milking the cow…/ not killing it. Not RSE studensts of course LOL! If they exist no one knows who they are. So I won’t say they don’t exist. But here we have some food for thought don’t we! This is not to put people down or as a petty rant or negativity. I’m being the ‘devils advocate’ here. Many of you have over-rated your casino play so much. If you start being ‘real’ about where you truly stand today….you have a far better chance of success in the future!
I think I’ve digressed from finishing up my little story about when I was in school at RSE.
For the record, my experience to appear on stage to demonstrate my abilities with the cards back in 2009 never happened. Mostly I hadn't quite mastered my 'stage fright' enough to take on the challenge. My nervousness of having over a thousand people watching me would have thrown off my focus and thus effecting my ability to focus and achieve my skill. So that was the 'level' I was at at the time. I was working up to that level to overcome my fears. Remember too, there are two kinds of "card readers". 1)Those mapping the cards(easy enough to learn in a matter of days or a week), and 2)Those with a genuine remarkable ability to see the shadow hovering over the back of the card and call it correctly (This is NOT easy work to develop. Takes a great deal of commitement, patience, and a strong will to persist even when there are no results showing. Many people can do the Henry Sugar Cards. If only but a little. Only a 'rare' person will master the cards. There aren't many of them. I know this is the truth.) With that in mind, yes many people did test on stage. I knew something was a sham. The numbers were multiplying exponentially. I don't believe in morphagentic fields or hundredth monkey (Yes it was like a hundred monkeys faking the discipline). But of course it was 'easy' for them to get up there and do it because no wonder when one is 'mapping' the cards that one can be confident and sure of success in demonstrating accurately reading the cards!
So the 2009 wave of students testing on stage came (I mean with regard to card-mappers in the masses). This at the peak of my skill and at the end of the third year of my work with the cards. This phanomina of the 'card-mappers' came just as I was working up the courage and polishing my skill enough to test myself in front of lots of people. Then my friends were coming back from events telling me what was unfolding that summer of 2009.
I remember one day I had completed 10 hours of continuous focus work at home when my partner rolled in returning from the big event. I couldn't believe what I was hearing of massive numbers of people testing perfectly with the cards. (I won’t deny perhaps a slight bit of envy at first at that time! That would be hypocritical of me to deny some of my humanity surfacing at what was unfolding. ) Something wasn’t right about this picture though! I knew almost all were cheating/mapping the cards. I do not know who genuinely were masters who were applying the right-use-of the discipline (seeing the shadow of the card unfold). My interest in going to events had been falling away and I was getting a lot of my information second-hand from many sources regarding these ‘card readers’. All sources were telling pretty much the same thing with regard to the card readers. The picture, when putting together all the stories became very clear about what was going on at that time at RSE. The stage became a 'free for all' of cheats. The act of testing in front of the student body seemed to have lost it's meaning. It turned into where no one could be taken seriously now who demonstrated a genuine ability. So what! And mostly the discipline of the cards was ruined by the students who cheated. They owe some of us an apology. They corrupted something very special. It was frivolous of them to try and claim to be something they were not and have most the school believing they were doing the discipline. Too many have not eyes and are dumb and blind to see the difference between a cheater and the genuine thing! They just praise everything that happens there ,and themselves, don’t seem to be doing the work. They call everyone “master”. I’m sure it makes them many friends. I’m sure it makes them well in their little social circles. They aren’t doing anything though. And….No one deserves that title in my book unless you are demonstrating the kind of abilities described in the book of “Masters of the Far East”. Even the “Masters” in that book didn’t call themselves that. It was the name ‘outsiders’ had for them. Just saying!
Let me correct myself. They didn’t really ‘ruin’ the discipline. Again about the ‘card readers’. It didn’t change the importance of the discipline to myself for example. They kind of ruined the act of testing on stage to the school. That meant a great deal to me at the time. Before, it was a rare and highly respected art in the school. A true platform of achievement.
That whole thing troubled me very deeply for many years. And made me stronger in so many ways as well as a result.
Perhaps it is purposeful good though too considering that the standard now of 'testing with the cards covered'...is how it always should have been. All the power to anyone who demonstrates that one on stage! That would be really cool!
The discipline of the Henry Sugar cards typifies something much bigger than simply reading the cards or winning at the casino. So many people just have the hardest time understanding this. Could it be that they who do not understand this have not experienced what it is to truly touch God? ….. There is a huge personal , mental, and physiological transformation that takes place in the individual working the discipline for a consistent period of time in earnest. There are a vast array of other ‘supernatural’ phanomina that happen around the cards also. I don’t like to use the word ‘serpernatural’. I mean…it’s completely natural….when you operate with the correct knowledge, understanding, and develop your self and use your mind correctly to apply the work. Some ignorant people ask "what's the point of seeing the cards..etc". It is hard for me to convey the full value and my experience with this in words. I can’t give to you my experiences. There is so much that happens.
And it isn't like you suddenly become supperman. It's more that it is the mind and brain beginning to open up these extraordinary abilities. It's the breaking through the 'shell' of limitation of humanity. We are making some BIG cracks in that shell when we develop this work.The cards are an important first step of achievement to develop the mind enough to break through that barrior and continue to unfold greater things. It isn't the only way. It isn't the only ‘one path’. But it is an extremely worth-while path or...’tool ‘to break through the vail and contact God within.
There are 'levels' of ability. Too many talk about it like it's black and white...They may say:..."I don't believe in this unless someone demonstrates PERFECTLY". Does this or that…and “if this were true and on and on”…. And yes this is a valid point. It's also true that anyone can experience the genuine magic of seeing the shadow of those cards for them self. This really is the only proof. When ‘you’ do it, it’s real. In the end it isn't "He did it!"....It's "I can do this.". In short, 'real Magic' was an everyday common phanomina in my life. I can honestly say that. I could write a little book just about stories of experiences. Not here! I say this because the work I was doing IS REAL. It's REAL-WORK. In this way I support the knowledge I learned at RSE! In that sense, nothing can ever take away the knowledge I learned. It is my own. Just as real and natural as the birds or trees.
So yes I say it is a cult….but….I learned valuable things there also. And I say these things to show that I have created something of value with the work. No frivolous ‘hate speaches’ about RSE here. I don’t ask you to accept everything I say as truth either. You are free to think as you will. All I ask is that you allow me to speak my truth (to reprieve me of bottling this inside me no longer) and that you consider if you learned anything at RSE when you were a student that you might consider to use in your own life to make it better!
I took about 5 years off from my work with the cards. Not because I left the school in 2009 and after the card discipline was ruined and corrupted at that! The break was so I could focus on another project/career ‘on the side’ of my day job. Inspiration came to me out of the ashes of my dissolutionment of 2009 with the school. It came out of left field and straight away. I literally didn’t have to search out anything else. It came to me and fit into my life like a glove. I have been taken by my work with it. This new adventure I've been focused on the last five years is my 'third bloom' (to borrow the analogy of the seed and the rose) and has almost nothing to do with what I learned at RSE other than ‘patience, personal discipline, and tenacity’. It is a career matter. I mentioned that to bring some sense to my little story and to finish up with it…sort of ‘bridge the gap in my story….However please don’t ask me any more about this bit here! This is all I will say about that....
Fast forward...Six months ago, I picked up the cards again. I was compelled to not let go and keep them as an ongoing part of my life as I once did. So I hone my discipline every day along with everything else I do. I'll admit it was 'almost like starting from the beginning. Lack of practice for quite an extended period of time caused me to lose the former ability for the most part. But now...the magic is comming back in my life in so many ways. The unique phanomina that happens when you consistently and genuinely work a discipline that (I'll put it this way) you shift from the state of your 'humanity' to a state of being 'universal mind'....delivers something truly unique and powerful. Beautiful! I'm speaking on a level that is purely a spiritual concept independent of RSE or any organization. That anyone can realize in their life. And I have nothing to prove with the cards. And I don't ask that you accept any kind of 'ability' on my part. as truth. And I am careful not to make any certain ‘claims’ about my abilities with the cards. It is my own thing. This is not to 'boast' about what I'm doing. I just say this because I want to say that 'mostly' I love what I 'learned' at RSE and don't agree that even if it is a cult or whatever...that we shouldn't throw away the knowledge and teachings with it. Why would someone go and do a thing like this when they have seen their own power?
And.. for example teachings about 'our emotions' and how we must master them to do the great work or to evolve for that matter! It is everyone's birth-right to realize the power they have within them.
However, nothing over the last years since 2009 has happened to convince me anything other than RSE being a cult. Even if we go easy and try to say the basic mission of the organization is genuine. I say the 'cult' is in the 'people who are devoted' to it. They create sort of what I think of as a 'cult culture' around the school. And a big fat 'cast system'. It's human nature. The school is not unique for this!
For me, I just came to RSE to learn that 'God is within me' and learn how I can experience this as truth in my life. Not, to be a ‘devoted’ follower. They had to be at those events. They couldn't be happy it seemed without being there. Their reality was a bubble called RSE ...the center of everything'. It was very uncomfortable for me living in that kind of social atmosphere.
I can’t stress enough that when I talk about “Students” I DON’t mean everyone. There is no way I can lump them all together. There are so many different kinds of people and students and it would not be fair for me to carelessly lump them all together. I miss many of my friends in the school!
Furthermore, The disciplines seemed to be a 'ritual' with most of them who ‘claimed’ to be sinceer. They wanted to be 'good little students'. They needed everyone to know they were doing them. If Ramtha changed or tweaked with the protocol of the disciplines. So many around me changed on a dime what they were doing. They could be 'displaying' to be passionate about one particular discipline. Come back from an event and now they are doing something totally else. In other words. They aren't leading their own life at all. They are drones. This disturbed me a lot about my friends until I was able to physically move away from that environment. Troubled me in a way that I felt alienated in a way that I couldn't communicate my passions and ideas with my friends who could not think outside a tight 'mold' of the thinking of the school. This meant that much of my independent work and study of broader learning ....passions. ....was not welcome conversation material among my friends. Some reacted to my thoughts and ideas in a combattive way or like it was at war with them. Like just expressing some ideas I was learning independent of what is taught at RSE…they behaved as if it was an attack on them. When there was nothing intended that would battle their current believe system. It was much like when I communicate with My Christian relatives...You start expressing a love for Jesus....Then they're like "What Jesus?" They become unglued if you don't communicate 100% every word the way it is in the bible. That is how some of my friends were about everyday conversation about lofty ideas in general. RSE was like their religion.
My impression about most of the students around me were that they were not in love with 'God' as they think they are. They loved being 'devoted students' of Ramtha School. That's different. My view is that if one truly loved “God” than one would not seek God outside of ones self. I've seen all of them. Every kind of student. From students doing great things with the work...to everything else we can imagine. There are many 'humble' students of the great work I trully love. I hope to see some of them again one day. But on the whole.....I felt like the whole experience was like a psychological trap. Really a trap. They take pride in their slogan "It's all about you". That's the bait. It's about many things. But it's also a very tightly contained trap. And a 'power game' in many ways it seems to me. I’ll discuss this in detail soon.
Anyway..I'm still building my new life after the school BTW! Slowly and steadily. And my life is NOT 'perfect' by any means. But I am finding happiness and having significant breakthroughs in my private journey with a number of things. Everything feels like a natural progression on my way to achieving what I want in life. Again to be clear. I’m not trying to present myself as some goodie two shoes. Or as some model of ‘purity’ by any means. Some I’m sure would even challenge me: “You seem to care so much about what others have done in the school! Why are you ‘troubled’ by what others do? Why should that effect you? My response is mostly that it dousn’t stop me from leading a happy successful life for myself. Whatever certain things I’ve discussed about ‘others’ here was because it needs to be said. That train is running carelessly in directions or some aspects are corrupt and messed up. The things I am saying I feel I just need to express from my soul to not have it as a burden to me any longer. And because someone needs to be saying this! Honestly, that is all I can say to that!
Personally, I see that RSE is bang-on when it comes to the philosophies it teaches about spirituality. It teaches all the same things that are contained in the books 'Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East'. Many of the statements made by Ram were word-for-word the same as in that book. Remember, those books were published roughly a hundred years ago. If we peel away the 'cult' off the teachings and work. We are left with genuine knowledge. Remember too that RSE went many huge steps forward in teaching about how our 'emotions' work. I've found no place else that teaches about the emotions like Ramtha. But anyway, we can hold the books 'Masters of the Far East' and see the knowledge pure and timeless. Belonging to no specific organization. There are many paths that lead to God as well. We have the Henry Sugar book…We have many things….Many tools!
I don't ask that you accept statements I've made about my work as 'truth'. It's my 'truth'. And it's my private journey. I only have disclosed this to support what the school taught me and to make some peace with this. As I have held this inside for many years now. I just ask those of you who have attended RSE to examine if you learned anything of genuine value instead of demonizing the whole package! This is where I support the knowledge.
That was the “supportive” part of this post of RSE. Much longer than I wanted but I had to get this out and release it from my soul.
In my next post in this thread I will list each of my main points in detail about why I see RSE as a cult. And the points I think are some causes of concern.

seriously
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by seriously » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:56 pm

MindState, thanks for joining and posting on EMF.

Most of us on EMF have either gone to RSE or have family that's involved. I check both of those boxes. You seem to focus (no pun intended) on the card work. Did you just dismiss JZ/RAM's doomsday teachings (aliens, dark planet, japan, tidal waves, etc., etc., etc., puke, etc.,)? That's a big part of the teaching and you didn't mention it. Also, all of the quantum babble was a large part of what was taught during your time at RSE.

As far as your card reading/gambling ability goes; if you tested yourself from a scientific approach, you would find over an extended period of time your success/fail rate would be exactly the same as random chance. Do you know who James Randi is? He has a 1 million dollar challenge set up to test claims exactly like yours. If you feel you have supernatural/magical abilities, by all means prove them and claim your 1 million dollars. The casino in Yelm isn't going out of business. In fact, they're in the middle of an expansion. I'm sure they love the RSE people coming in to try and prove their abilities to themselves. They celebrate their wins as their pure focus but disregard their losses. It's all chance. I've offered a few thousand dollars multiple times to have RSE students prove their abilities in a mutually agreed upon set of tests and have never had one taker.

My truth: My family uses this a lot as a defacto explanation for the ridiculous. The conversation would go something like: We focused and prevented Japan from falling into the ocean. Oh really. So, what do you think your share was 1 billion - 100 billion tons of the sliding tectonic plate? It's my truth. Following the scientific method removes an individuals "truth" from the equation as results are shared and peer reviewed.

Check on the definition of a cult.

Even though I knew RSE was BS, I had a difficult time leaving. I read the following book, recommended by JoeSZ and it really helped me understand. http://www.amazon.com/Bounded-Choice-Be ... 0520240189 Although, it doesn't deal specifically with RSE, it explained the separation anxiety, fear and uncertainty one feels when departing a cult.

Good for you. I'm glad you're out. Best of luck going forward.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:39 pm

*@Seriously.....greetings!.....I'm not here to discuss my thoughts any more than I have to get some things off my system. I know this is a forum and everything is open for discussion. I am going to decline from getting involved in any more discussions.

Is RSE a 'cult'? Yes I think so.

I really want to make this part of my post much shorter than the last as I think I have said most of what I had to say and I don't want to discuss this anymore. These are just some specific points about the RSE experience that troubled me and where I think it is a cult. It's not a hate speech. so.....

1) The "we vs. the them (or the rest of the world)" attitude. This attitude comes out most in statements for example: "Don't forget what we've been taught!".........The attitude shows in many other ways to....it's subtle...but much bigger in the mind of the cult/follower........For many this may seem harmless. Some may not really understand what I mean here. Some (former students or current students) will know exactly what I mean. I can't say what exactly is 'harmful' about this. It’s more an attitude that deserves to be re-examined. It’s a disease. It's a pathetic and disturbing 'perception' of the world. To split the world into a 'group' you belong to on one side and the rest of the world on the other. For, there is in actuality, NO genuine reason to make that kind of distinction about the world. And also you cult followers aught to just 'love' the whole world or at least make a serious effort to suspend your judgements and focus more on your self. Your company with ‘likeminded’ people may be ‘safe’….but it is only ‘safe’ …in your little minded way when you have this kind of attitude. This…. 'We' thing.....no no!

2) Ramtha and RSE: The center of the universe. Many students live in this little ‘bubble’ of the school. It’s a small world! This is the cult culture of the school. I means in the life of being a student....RSE is the center of the universe for most. Wasn't for me. May not be for many current students even. But it is for most. And so that is there environment when your friends are fellow students and you are making your living and livelihood among the student community. RSE the center. Ramtha the central cult leader guru/God. 'Philosophically, most students don't agree with this and can't admit it'. But there it is ....a philosophy'. And most of them would give you all these reasons why it's not a 'religion'. I say it is....'to them'.....And again, I don't lump all the students together here. They are not all the same. I'm talking about most that I've seen over the years. Why is Ram a God/guru to them? Because they talk about what they learn at school to other people. They are indoctrinated with the verbage. They preach it as gospel. And if you try to have a conversation abundant with lofty ideas....so many of them can only repeat words within the mould of the ideas taught in school...in the same language. If it's different ideas. If it anything that is NOT mentioned at school, it can't exist or worth considering. Which leads me to the next point....

3) At RSE too many students feel that RSE is the only one truth. Just like every other religion! The only one place to get knowledge. The problem is is that RSE teaches only ‘part’ of the truth. Ramtha said in his backstory that he saught advise from 'no man'. That he was completely self-relient for answers. Students have taken this and say "well since Ramtha is a god and not a human. I can take advise from Ramtha. But no one else. Information and knowledge can only come from Ramtha. And everything goes 'unquestioned'. No shit! Seriously! Unquestioned. Everything. That's dangerous. And that's not 'living' as a free-thinking individual. I don't want to rant about this...but I will add this: There are many ideas...and many things to discover in the world....ideas that have been conceived by brilliant people in the world that no one else has developed. Very unique points of study. Brilliant people adding unique knowledge. Who spend there whole live developing there creation. There 'life work'. Many valuable ideas that are 'excluded' or never mentioned by Ramtha for whatever reason...Sometimes I wonder if the bookstores of RSE are the book collections of (1) 'personality'. Point is, I've seen many who feel like RSE is the only place worth learning from. That is scary...and the knowledge is quite limited in certain ways. There is a lot out there in the world to learn! Many of the followers of Ramtha don’t realize how much they don’t know …especially when they are under the illusion that there is nothing worth learning ouside of RSE. How ignorant!

4) Capitalized spirituality…..Everything at RSE is expensive. I am not criticizing that they charge money for retreats. That is not unique to RSE either. People will pay a lot more money to attend seminars of many kinds. However EVERY lecture…every interview….afilliated with RSE cost some hunk of money….Bottom line is that it is a lot of money to receive information from RSE. I can find it all practically for nothing. People….stop paying money for ‘common sense’! That’s ‘The Secret’ right there! I don’t need Her..’trademarked’ disciplines. Or any other ‘trademarked’ shit for that matter! And RSE can make up as many cutzy little names they want for events…..it’s only a ‘packaging’ that is all. The knowledge is very simple and I have questioned many times why people feel they need a ‘guru’/corporation institution/ cult to experience the knowledge. Most of them are alternatives to very ‘simple’ disciplines and protocols that are ancient and things that belong to all of humanity. The spiritual philosophies taught at RSE are every human’s birth-right to experience and therefore no one should have to feel like they must spend hundreds and thousands of dollars constantly to receive that knowledge. So they are not needed. Really! It mostly be found all over the place from various sources…..(besides the bit about our ‘emotions’ that’s worth a lot I can say about the events!)……It dousn’t take a special event or retreat to apply meaningful change and transformation in you life eather! Bottom line is ‘stop paying money for common sense!......Money can not buy common sense.

5) The disciplines are structured in such an exact and packaged way….and all this trademarking of everything…..That it’s hard to engage the disciplines, some of them, with genuine passion. This is not an excuse for people who just lack passion to do the work! All I’m saying is that when for example teachers talk about certain disciplines….it has to be such this certain exact way that it’s hard for the genuine desire to come from the soul or the individual. That’s just the way I feel about it. It’s like being told by a drill sergent of how to do something this one certain way when I have many ways I ‘could do the same’ things. Because of this, retreats always felt like I’m having to be ‘the follower’ taking the instruction by someone else’s way of doing it. Rather than it being my own idea and doing it. But then again, I don’t go. RSE has some purpose for sure. For I did need the school initially to learn some worth while knowledge! It’s not inspiring to hear teachers of the school either because they talk like they are ‘promoting’ the exact words of JZ rather than from knowledge they own. They been stepping up there game lately true. They speak with passion. But it sounds like they are ‘passionately promoting’ there organization they work for. It’s capitalism. It’s marketing. …..Not my way to receive spiritual knowledge!
I’ll give another example later maybe about why these disciplines don’t have to follow these exact protocols.

6) There is the 'doom and gloom' stuff we can also talk about. Sometimes I wonder if it's an important 'cog' in the cult/corporate machine to keep hold of it's follower if they believe the world is going to end or they have to center their life around RSE. It teaches preparedness. I agree in many ways with that. Christianity also teaches some truths as well. Is Christianity a dirty cult? Sure is! I think beyond the 'basic prepardness' there is a trick of manipulation involved in the subjects where Ramtha is talking about disasters and doom and gloom. I think it is part of the system of controlling and manipulating the minds of the followers. I really don't want to go on about this though....that is all I have the words to express about it.

I’m spent mostly with this. I am not getting pleasure in writing this at all. I chose to do this to just get this burden out of my system and be done with it. That’s pretty much all I want to say. That is all I can think of at the moment. Maybe there are other things...If I feel they are important/need said...I'll add. I think I've covered the most important points I wanted to express. Have a wonderful day! :)

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:18 am

One clarification about point (5). What I mean by 'certain disciplines'. I make this point because I don't want to put down the work or disciplines. Also, I recongnise that they are 'intelectual property' that needs protection. True!

Let me put it this way: For some years now the main discipline the school promotes heavily is the 'walk'....and how one 'must' do it. It has a protocol that is intended to produce an 'effect'. My feeling is that the same 'effect' can be achieved in so many many ways. It sounds to me when I hear JZ and teachers promoting so heavily how this 'walk' must be done....it's almost like a personality pushing 'the path, the way, and the light' for that individual. And they can say BS like that discipline is the only "Blue discipline"...etc.....They 'preach' that this 'must be done' and this 'must be done this certain way'. This is an example where I feel it's hard to get into the discipline by the way it is delivered. Not that I don't desire to 'discipline' or produce the 'effects'.....Sure don't want to do it there way after how they talk about it! *Note: This is specifically where I feel the 'work' at RSE feels like 'the work of RSE'.....and not 'my work'. Good thing too! Because I get to own my work! Personally, I've accomplished more in my life by a mixture of things. But not following any exact other persons way.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:27 am

I had a thought to recollect here one more thing about the cult RSE and my experience there. At the last major event I attended in 2009 Ramtha said something I'll never forget. It was at the wine ceremony. I can't recall word for ward everything said. But the gist of it was this: "Some of you wonder why I don't always appear in your dreams". And then he said, "you don't need me."

I recall this bit here to also point out that this 'cult' leader......whatever we can say about 'she' or 'him'....on rare occasions acknowledges that the school is not for everybody. And is not 'needed' by everybody.

Furthermore, I have never known a similarity between 'Ramtha' and JZ. Other than common knowledge. But I'm not here to discuss the authenticity of Ram.

I hope my little stories have been a 'fair' and balanced assessment of my experiences! :)

sera
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:55 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by sera » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:14 am

well...
the one thing I wish RSE would do is give a more real accounting of all the 'winners'
When they post their winnings, it makes it seem that these guys are ahead by tens of thousands of dollars.

I mean how much have they given back since their big wins??, or how much did they put in overall before they got a big win??

I have had jackpots using the disciplines, at times gotten nicely ahead, and even won little daily lotteries, but now overall I am quite behind, which sucks, because I work very very hard at it. I don't live anywhere near yelm, I haven't been a current student for several years, I don't have friends there. So I ask those who do and who are in the know, please tell true, are these people really getting rich?? Or are people losing their shirts and driving themselves into poverty and just not talking about it?? What's real here?

The times I am successful with the disciplines, it all seems to make such sense. But then it all comes crashing, I can just never get ahead. So I sincerely appeal to those who are more 'enlightened', how do you do it? Or are people really doing it...??

It's been very difficult for me to let go of the dream of 'I create my reality' especially when I have successfully done it several times...just enough to stay hooked in. Going to school there completely changed me. I find it very difficult to just go back and live a 'normal' socially acceptable life, and believe me I've tried. When I went through my journey there, I became totally alcoholic -- that is not RSE's fault, I have to own that within myself, and I have since gotten sober with the help of AA. But I still really struggle with AA's precept of accepting life on life's terms vs what I learned at RSE which was to create life on my terms.

I guess I need to rant a little too, I have no one I can talk to about this, people who have not been through this experience simply cannot understand. I honestly don't even know HOW I would explain this to a therapist...Only another RSE student who's been bitten by the 'bug' will get it.

I don't have a need to badmouth anyone, I just want my life to work.
And I don't have the answers right now, I am really in the question.
But I would love to hear from yelm folks who know the real picture about all this winning stuff...
thanks for listening guys...

joe sz
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by joe sz » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:27 am

Hi MindState.
you're having quite a journey!
glad you are past RSE
I will not belabor this.

The Great Work is a familiar phrase to me. It's been used by alchemists and occultists of various persuasions from Freemasons to Theosophists for centuries to indicate initiation into "the Mysteries" and coming to ultimate Self-realization so as to either ascend or never reincarnate again. Is that how you mean it?

I prefer the Great Debate, that path that philosophers are on to seek truth wherever it leads them.

as for books by Baird Spalding:
Personally, I see that RSE is bang-on when it comes to the philosophies it teaches about spirituality. It teaches all the same things that are contained in the books 'Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East'.
I first came across those 6 books on Masters of the Far East in 1978. I have done quite a bit of research on those books.
Evidence shows that Baird Spalding was never in India or the Far East at the time of the first 2 books. He later claimed that he wrote those from his "astral body" experience. He did get to India in the 1920s. He met up with another occultist, Paul Brunton, while there, and Brunton reported the story about that being Baird's first trip there. So, basically, his books are fiction and magical imagination. If you feel that there are "truths" in those books, no one should argue about that with you. But do not claim they are actual experiences in the flesh by that author.

Hope that helps.

Joe

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:38 am

@ Joe

Hi! With regard to Spalding and his works, I'm not too concerned exactly how authentic his story is as far as 'if he actually made the expedition to India in the late 1800's'. I've delved into his books and also read all the same sources and arguments about his life that you are proposing. I know the controversy. To me, the content in the 'story' and teachings in "Masters of the Far East" is truly incredible. Even if he somehow managed to write all that from his imagination....it's one damn good book! Thus, the spiritual significance of the 'message' in those books is more important to me than how the words came to be printed in those books. I really have nothing to debate about it.



That said, I wanted to bring some clarity to my possition and statements about the what I was saying of how it's not important that the disciplines at RSE (for example the 'walk') be done in an EXACT way or like some ritual or even something that you must spend a lot of money to learn for that matter. Disciplines like this are marketed and protected as if they are some kind of 'grail' ...one of a kind....that is your answer to everything you always wanted. Why, the answer is in 'you'.....and that you need not necessarily devote your self to anything but your own life.

I do support the basic 'spiritual' teachings that that have been discussed in this thread. Where I part with the school of RSE is that the 'power' or rather contacting this 'power'....is by way of 'intent'....'focus'...and there really is not much else. We can do this through 'words'....'picture'...or neither.

Casting any 'cult' stuff to the side......Let's talk about how 'any' one in the whole world who is successful at anything and how they typically achieve what Roberte Green wrote about when he wrote the book "Mastery". And achieving ones life work.

True 'mastery' of anything isn't some devine moment of meditation when God 'in a moment' casts the 'pot of gold' in your lap. It's a journey that spands a significant period of time required for one to 'develop' them self. A time of 'preparation' to become and 'embody' the Mastery of the thing they wish to create. It's true that often the 'breakthrough' comes seemingly in a moment. But the 'preparation' leading up to that moment was quite the journey!

The breakthrough doesn't happen because it was by some exact 'ritual' followed. It started with 'intent' ...the 'seed'. But there is no (1) way or (1) path to Mastering 'Everything you desire'. Note: I didn't say that some particular 'things' or 'skills' don't have certain 'ways' of achieving them. I said there is no (1) way of manifesting 'everything'.

There is a principle in business I've heard many times from a number of entrepreneurs called the "80/20" principle. Or "90/10" even sometimes. My experience is only that this is true. That about '20 percent of your efforts will produce 80 percent of your result'. In a nutshell, that's the basic idea. To illustrate this in my experience, there were countless days where I'd be working 10 to 12 hours (even forgetting to eat) in my work. And the 'results' produced often seemed to elude me for the most part. Other times I could be just sitting and having coffee and smoking...in the morning and have 'breakthrough' realizations. Or the breakthroughs sometimes came while walking. That was the 20 or 10 percent of efforts. It doesn't mean that I didn't have to do the other 80 percent of my efforts! The other 80 percent of my effort was developing my mind. Or was the 'preparation'. Root system! :) There are no shortcuts. Also, none of this is to imply that anything is complicated. Keep everything simple! The greatest things may be the weirdest things sometimes. But nothing is complicated.

What about this 'preparation'....well whatever endeavor that one sets out to achieve or master....one may find themselves doing many different things to achieve that desired effect. The actions taken may be a whole assortment of different things. In some of my work I find myself writing....drawing diagrams....using colors...pens...and all sorts of things....in my work. From my past education, I know that all that I do is 'wiring' my brain. There have been many many many many many failures and times where it seemed my work was going no where. Where it appeared on the surface that my long hours were wasted for nothing. I knew always inside me that I have wasted nothing! So here I'm trying to explain what I mean by 'preparation'.

'Walking' is good too! I won't deny the idea that walking does something special to the brain in wiring thoughts! It is good for everyone to 'go for a walk'. When one may feel 'stifled' about something or discouraged ...defeated.......go for a walk! I disagree that a 'walk' need be some daily 'ritual'....at least to the degree that one has to speak in terms of 'how many times per day they walk'....or 'you're either doing it or not doing it' and comparing ones self to others by such standards.

Anyway, I hope this has added something of value to this thread!

seriously
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by seriously » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:02 am

Sera, thanks for posting. I can tell you with 100% certainty there are only a few financial winners at R$E and they're all on staff. My parents do the exact same thing you do. They're elated when they win and then don't understand why their focus and teachings failed them when they lose. Actually, they'll never blame the teachings. Ramtha is a God right. So, that's not the source of the problem. They will tell themselves there are minor victories in failures: ex: They need a 6 of diamonds or lower to come up and an 8 of diamonds comes up. The rational will be; I saw it was a diamond but .......... I'm getting so close.

If my family or any other R$E member kept 100% accurate track of their gambling over an extended period of time, they would find their success/failure rate is exactly the same as chance.

Creating your own reality: This was huge topic when I attended and am sure it still is. Here's the truth. Do you create your own reality? For the most part, YES. Can you think something and make it so? NO!!!!!!! This is magical and childish thinking and doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You have to think you will attain a goal before you do but that's the first part of the process. After you think it, what do you do? Do you let it go into the void? Do you see it through the color spectrum? Do you sit down and do hours of C&E or candle focus? Well, you can but you're wasting your time. You, meaning everyone, needs to get off their butt and WORK! I want a bigger boat. Ok. I could sit and try to pull one out of the void and have it land in my driveway OR I can get a 2nd job or a better job and/or save money for it. That's how things work in the real world. The book the Secret and JZs rants on creating your reality all sound really nice. However, I've known a lot of people at R$E over the years and none of them are rich. In fact, I'm not aware of anyone that is financially better off after attending R$E. I get there are other ways to value one's life and happiness. I'm just discussing that aspect of it in answering your post.

I apologize to you and MindState if I come across as combative. I don't mean to be but the frustration comes from virtually a lifetime of listening to my family go on and on with ridiculous notions and never learn when the promises fall WAY short or the premonitions don't come true yet again. I have witnessed them waste a good deal of their lives believing in a lie.

I don't want to dissuade either of you from posting here and if you'd like me to refrain making comments on your post, I'd be glad to comply. Send me a quick private message. Take care and best of luck.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:22 am

@ Seriously & Sara

Each of you make valid points. I agree with most of it. I also hope that those reading this will see that what we are discussing 'needs' some serious discussion. I've read almost no serious discussions about these things over the years. RSE is leading it's students in a careless and destructive path. It's gotten out of control!

Why?

It is not for the 'better good' of any developing human being to constantly praise them. The praising of the ego in that school has only increased in the last 5 or 6 years. They are entraining it's students down a path of mediocrity first of all.

Second of all, like I said before, those Ramsters need to 'get real' about where they stand on their road to where they want to be.

Third of all, where they 'want to be' is not impossible.

Fourth of all, as troubling as it is some of the things we have seen.....don't judge your own potential or be discouraged because it seems like you can only see examples of fools showing the way. Make up your mind and follow your own way. There's this saying, "suffer fools gladly"....I don't know where that came from but don't let 'fools' distract you from your path!

Five of all, Believe in your self and your vision at all times. But.....keep it quite. Your power is in you and the more you keep it there the greater it will be. No matter how confusing and complicated things seem sometimes....the answers will come within you...if you will listen to your own mind...be patient...and 'keep looking at your desires'. Simply thinking about what you want can not ever be underestimated. The act of daily thought about your work.......is one of the biggest parts of your work.

Six of all, there are 'three' kinds of people in this world. There are people who 'build' traps. And there are those who fall into traps.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:32 am

I'd like to remember my old buddy John from San Fransisco. I only saw him at events the first couple years of my schooling there at RSE. I don't know if there is anyone I ever met at RSE I loved more. He was a black man. A humble janitor. We had this little special connection between us in our journey of the cards. He'd tell me of his experiences back home with the cards. He didn't go around bragging about it. But he and I both felt the joy that this new discipline was bringing into our lives. He was one person I was excited to see there for a while when he seemed to always be at the same events I was. After a while I stopped seeing him at school. But never forgot him. I remember this one event....we were sitting in the arena ....nothing major was going on there...just people coming and going. I looked over at John and he was doing his cards quietly. I smiled. Some time later he called loudly to me to come over. He had the biggest smile on his face. He said "I saw that '8 of clubs'" Then he demenstrated calling accurately a few cards in front of me. I was so proud of him! I hope he found a happy life for himself whatever he's doing. Haven't seen him in a long time.

John (I'm pretty sure that was you're name!) If you ever find this thread, I wish I could 'high five' you! :)

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:04 pm

@ Sara

I hear you. All I can say is that you are not alone. Also you will need to control your self. And your emotions. I know of a great many who are able to make 'anything' work. I know you want to win. Please humbly join in line with millions of others! This thread is for you!

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:12 pm

@ Sara

I have been giving some thought to your post. I feel that what you have expressed is very similar to many other people including myself in some ways. I want to explore this more here. Though it may take some time. This thread is for you!

We have to start with something very simple. Everything must be simple. The question for you is "Why?"

"why" do you want to win?

"Why" do you want to 'create your own reality?'

Do you want somone else to make your work however many hours per day to make a living? Someone else to boss you around and force you of 'how to spend your time'....working for someone else for money?

Or will it be 'you' working for 'you'?....

What is your 'time' worth?

Can you 'imagine' spending many thousands of hours of your time with 'no pay'?

Does your 'time' belong to you?

what is your time worth to you?

'why' do you want to win?

User avatar
David McCarthy
Site Admin
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:56 pm

Hi sera,
Welcome to EMF.
Thank you joe, seriously and MindState.
the one thing I wish RSE would do is give a more real accounting of all the 'winners'
sera....your concerns and questions are forthright and need addressing directly if I may.
Lets start with >Shills at RSE< :idea:
JZK-R's 'masterful' employment of shills is rife.
Shills are a form of ‘psychological trickery’ to fool onlookers to believe in an orchestrated scam / deception.
More often than not they are paid RSE staff members.
The use of shills is to groom students into buying into 'The Great Work' no less than a form of religious slavery to JZK-R
Its all part and parcel of JZK’s RSE show and stage-props and has been going on since day one.
I have direct personal experience that became a major red flag during my time at R$E..
But to really look into this dark corner takes courage and critical thinking that will clash head on with the RSE indoctrinations.
I’ve since discovered shills are a common practice used by many religious Cults......Corporations ETC.
So for RSE to give "a more real accounting of the winners" is a matter of HONESTY,
and that is not going to come from JZK-R or her groomed staff....
for it would collapse RSE and reveal a clever charlatan hidden behind very elaborate masks.

If you would like to understand more about this hidden practice I've included some EMF links.
I hope you find a helping hand and answers on EMF.....
Thank you for posting,

David

Related:

What is a Shill - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

(EMF) View topic - Kenny Thompson JZK Shill?
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1982&hilit=shill

(EMF) View forum - RSE SCAMS, SHILLS, FRAUD & PONZI SCHEMES
viewforum.php?f=54

“To learn who rules over you,
Simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

-Voltaire
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Ockham
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by Ockham » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:55 pm

I believe nothing in the physical universe is an indivisible binary choice - after all quantum physics suggests that conclusion. Can one learn something good by spending a lot of money and time at RSE? Probably. Is it worth it? Maybe.

I would ask myself: what is the application? What does one do with the RSE disciplines? Too many times I have watched practitioners of disciplines, RSE and otherwise, make disciplines and end rather than a means to an end of enlightenment. To me the great work is what enlightenment is about and that is making the most of the physical universe to achieve perfection of the soul. Discliplines are exercises that are symbolic physical manifestations of the growth that one needs to do spiritually. RSE disciplines are like practice etudes to a pianist. Paino disciplines are to build dexterity to master the beauty of difficuilt and complex mmusic. Dexterity alone does not make music. I look at RSE disciplines the same way. The diecilines themselves aren't what one needs spiritually, but rather symbolic of the process of enlightenment.

What I find hollow about RSE as an outsider is that the instruction does not appear to connect the dots, but the RSE sales material suggests there is an enlightenment package deal. I suspect there is no spiritual package deal the same way there is no package deal for becoming a preeminent concert pianist. A teacher can provide you with technical tools, but only you have the ability to become transcendent.

When I look at RSE, I see what look to me like corruption. A lot of money is collected from RSE's practitioners for the the apparent self aggrandisement of Judy Knight and some her close friends. The question is whether there is anything unique to the message or the form of delivery at RSE. There are a lot of places to go that teach the pathway to enlightenment and their practiconers are ecstatic. With modest effort, it is possible to find an organization that teaches without requiring an up front payment of money. Finding enlightenment is most likely not going to come to anyone witout sacrifice, however sacrifice is not necessarily equivalent to giving up money to Judy Knight.

sera
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:55 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by sera » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback, much appreciated,
no don't feel anyone is being combatative, no worries.

Like I say, I pretty much bottle all this stuff inside, unless you've been there, it's difficult to understand, so I appreciate you all listening.

Mindstate, yes winning would be helpful financially, and has been when I have won. I am definitely a be my own boss kinda person, right now I am self employed, though my clients could be considered bosses. I have always been enchanted with the idea that I can shape and mold my world and experience, that's not likely to go away. but YES it's so important to be grounded and realize living in this world does indeed take action and effort, and I am a very hard worker. I only get lazy when I just have no passion for the work at hand. BTW I too LOVED practicing the cards, again I worked very hard at it. I was never a mapper, I had actually seen through cards before the whole mapping craze happened so I knew that wasn't it. And no, I never once saw through a whole deck, in fact only once I saw through almost half a deck, and I haven't been able to even do that since that one time. HOWEVER the experience of seeing the shadow pop through was amazing and really hooked me in for some time. But I just hit this plateau, could not go further, and then the school itself started to get really crazy with all the doomsday stuff, that and my own personal spiral down, I had to step away and dump whole thang for a good long while so I could get my own head screwed back on straight. Was the best move I ever made, thank god.

But I am still enchanted with the science of changing our brain, and improving my own performance in life, and I am very pleased that there are dozens and dozens of programs far far away from RSE who are all about that kind of work with many different modalities and there is no drinking and no drama involved and people are very calm clear and practical about it. In fact right now I am studying hypnosis, and mindfulness meditation, great stuff! I also find some of the RSE disciplines and study helpful to me and still work the ones that work for me. My deal is let's stick to what is practical helpful and useful in daily life.
I have NO tolerance or interest in weird drama scenes and craziness, nope- can't do it anymore. Which is why I have pretty much stayed away, though I appreciate what I learned.

And yeah, what I realize today is that it doesn't matter who is winning and ahead or who is not, those people don't have to pay my bills, I do. Bottomline, if it doesn't work for me, I gotta move on and try something else.

The casino focus thing is waaaayyy tricky, sure it's great when I have an on day, but I when don't, I still have a tendency to still keep trying to hit that mark, I have a tenaciousness in me that doesn't give up, but OUCH that's expensive! It's like what if I had to pay a dollar or more everytime I hit the fence and did not find my card!! yikes!! well, that's exactly what it is... And to top it off, it is so easy to slip into getting addicted and before I know it, I've gone from a sincere intention to focus to being an gambling addict.

No thank you, that's not why I started this work. So I am just grappling with what's real for me right now, and where I best need to put my energy to move my life forward.

Again thanks everyone for your feedback, much appreciated.

Onward and upward...

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:41 pm

Hi guys,

This discussion has landed on the nail! I'm going to have to sit down and read your posts later. It looks like some good stuff!

Just real quick.....I want to say something about that whole 'thing' at RSE about the casinos...and lotto...etc.

'winning' is NOT a 'HOBBY'.

And there will be no we all win win win and will be rich rich rich and we all rejoice and celebrate each other and pat each other on the back. That is not ever going to happen.

The real success in whatever case....those individuals will be their own legend. I strongly doubt there is going to be any attributing to RSE or any story. Because it would have taken everything of the individual to create was they create. It isn't going to be " so and so makes such and such million dollars every year. He/she attributed it to learning at RSE...see full shory..."

Winning is not a hobby.

I'll catch up with your previous posts guys later. Good discussion here!

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:09 am

@ David McCarthy

*Damn this discussion is going to be hard for me to stay away from! I want to address your post about 'shills' real quick before I leave the door.

You make a very valid and important point about 'shills'! I support what you said completely there!

I have no 'hate' with anyone I met at RSE. However.....I have been in and out of many situations and have seen many things there. Right from the beginning there were things that troubled me. There are some dark corners of the school. It's not perfect. It's not completely bad and bless those who have gone home with something good from that school!

The 'shills' are real. I will once again bring up the fact that I saw almost every body who is anybody in school 'play at the casino'. I am quite familiar with all the faces I have seen.....and how they play. I have no intention of 'bad mouthing' them or singling anybody out or tearing any of them down or humiliating them. I could do that if I was that kind of person. It was my own observation and learning. All I will say is that they are no different than any body else in the world. Women doing what women do. And Men doing what men do. Everyone wants to 'look good'. They want to look good at the casino. They want to look good at the golf course ...they want to look good with everything! The only difference between them and common gamblers is they have layered this 'special' mask over what they do. It's 'spiritual'. They're students of Ramtha. LOL!

Many of the characters that keep appearing in story after story are people who work at RSE in some way. Many of them work behind the scenes. Realistically, most of them probably have some kind of career that earnes them a decent living. They are not wealthy. But they are 'comfortable'. They go to the casino as a 'hobby' and play 'for fun'. They win like any gambler wins. And clearly they have not examined seriously the difference between 'winning' and 'winner'. Or 'winning' and 'earning'. They don't even know anything about what they should be defeating. And they aren't particularly bright about the games they play. They do have low standards. A one time win of a thousand..or several thousand...is not much money. Even a few winning sessions that added up to whatever amount is not impressive. Even 'randomness' grants good luck even for a number of sessions. I say most of them don't know what they are doing at all. And they all play like the casino is their living room. I think they should stop 'enjoy' to gamble. They should stop being gamblers. Go home and never go back to the casino until they can be a 'winner'.

They win sometimes like all gamblers do. The difference is that every single time they win they attribute something about it to RSE. Only the completely stupid buy that kind of trash! Many of these people who you are reading about in these stories are indeed 'shills'. They earn there income through the school or in other ways. All the other students you hear about ...the same applies ....but they are not shills. They are just weak.

Thanks again David and yes people need to wake up to what you were saying of 'shills'. All the common people in RSE hoping to have success applying their work to the casino should stop being 'tools' for the school and take their work more seriously as well!

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:12 am

Ockham wrote:


What I find hollow about RSE as an outsider is that the instruction does not appear to connect the dots, but the RSE sales material suggests there is an enlightenment package deal. I suspect there is no spiritual package deal the same way there is no package deal for becoming a preeminent concert pianist. A teacher can provide you with technical tools, but only you have the ability to become transcendent.

When I look at RSE, I see what look to me like corruption. A lot of money is collected from RSE's practitioners for the the apparent self aggrandisement of Judy Knight and some her close friends. The question is whether there is anything unique to the message or the form of delivery at RSE. There are a lot of places to go that teach the pathway to enlightenment and their practiconers are ecstatic. With modest effort, it is possible to find an organization that teaches without requiring an up front payment of money. Finding enlightenment is most likely not going to come to anyone witout sacrifice, however sacrifice is not necessarily equivalent to giving up money to Judy Knight.
@ Ochham

This was beautifully put and well said!

I don't have any exact answers of as far as 'rating' RSE as a spiritual organization. There was a time in my life where it was exactly what I needed. It has an important place in the world probably! I have no cause to 'promote' it though. Especially the way it's become in more recent years. To me, the good old days are behind me of RSE. Hell, it 'was' my old buddy 'the janitor' who made the 'good old days' the good-old-days for me! Aside from that, the teachings around emotions and mastering them, again, are among the unique things I learned there. But, I don't believe the school is like it used to be. And I wonder sometimes if this is why the despirate marketing of gamblers every wins are signs that the school is losing it's footing of authenticity. There is little science involved there and very little scrutiny of the authenticity of accomplishments there. The only thing supporting the 'Great work' are in the minds of the students doing the great work. The 'stories' of student accomplishments contain very little that can be taken seriously. The is why the only way one can know this is 'real' is you have to be the one doing it. That's my favorite way to know! :)

I have a little 'side' theory of my own apart from these discussions of RSE. My theory is this: "determinism" or "Natural law".....vs. "free-will"....or "free-play"....or "freedom"................... are equally at play in the universe. Anyone like to discuss this subject?

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:36 am

@ Sera

"Onward and upward" I love it! :)

Thank you for sharing your story of your journeys! It was a pleasure reading what you were saying about your journey with the 'Henry Sugar cards' and 'seeing through the cards'....seeing that shadow appear! Nothing will ever be able to take that away from you. And never should you feel like you need to compare your level or experience with the cards to anyone else!! Hopefully those are times in your life where you can roll your head back...close your eyes....and hear your song play as you recall some of your greatest and magical moments. And you will feel your 'heart sing' in those special moments of recollection. That is why there is no reason to prove anything to no one! And you will realize also how beautiful 'the future' is! And where else you like to explore....what adventures remain to unfold!

It sounds like you know what you want! That's cool! And congratulations on being 'self employed'! I can imagine also the challenge of dealing with a lot of other personalities when your clients are your income. I guess there's a couple ways to look at this! It can be showing you a 'challenge'....and it can also help you realize what you would like to create.

I wish you all the best in finding your path to happiness and freedom! For me, after deciding what I wanted for sure, it helped to keep a folder to collect knowledge and information and just learn all I can, research all I can, do all I can. And be patient with it. All the while keeping it in my mind. 'Holding the goal in mind'....always!

I have a simple thought to leave you with that I hope will be helpful. And it is tricky! I was just reading about your experiences and 'casinos'. I can relate to the same feelings you have expressed! Did you know that 'simplicity' is King? And 'Consistency' is Queen. Or another King I guess you could say! The 'impossible' is made 'possible' in the simplest and sometimes 'weirdest' of ways! But from what I have seen in the casino......a lot of 'why' people 'lose' is by the 'way they play'. Also they 'lack a clear plan' and the discipline to execute that plan. 'planning' includes everything and how one will conduct themselves in the casino...to money management...bank roll...division of BR....the bet....win targets...stop losses..and on and on..There is a lot that needs to be thought out well to make up a clear plan. And one of the simplest things gamblers don't understand is what it means to win. The best way I can put this is that if you can only win....1.....2.....3 ...etc....chips , just a conservative number of chips in a sessions winnings...but win that number of chips 'consistently'. There is no reason to ever lose a single session! There are 'many reasons' to not play at all though in the casino. And there are also many good reasons to not be a 'regular' at any one casino if you ever want to play there again! As a matter of fact, the 'casino' is not needed for one to develop their 'work' at all, depending on what game is concerned. That's what the 'bat-cave' is for! It can be like a 'safe' whom for the 'work' to grow. That is smart!!! Gambling is not smart. Losing is not smart! That's why no one brags about losing (almost).

All the best to you! :)

Rooster
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by Rooster » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:38 am

Welcome mindstate,
I have yet to read everything to catch up. I do think you really nailed the lure to Rse. I have to say I attended the school when Gambling was basically a sin with Ramtha's school of enlightenment. "If you gamble, you have already lost". A direct quote. Yeah... there was no drinking too. You are right to say the school is a cult. It has lures, carrots to bring you in. I am happy you are not trapped like my family and friends.
I do get what you are saying. I struggled myself for some time. You may have learned a few things you can carry on with your life. They are not indigenousness to the school. Not unique, just out there for people to choose. Most of RSE materials are plagiarized and are in books all over the world. I do agree as human beings we are quite dynamic. We are capable of many things. Look at we have accomplished? I do not and can not ever credit Rse for any of this. For some, maybe it was the only way they did see some of this. I have just seen more horror, despair and destitute my self. Many, many years I have I watched and been involved. I do see your point and from one that did not fall into the trap. Yet, you even felt the fallout.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:13 am

@ Rooster

Hi, nice to meet you!

Yah those are some interesting points! 'Freedom' has always been an idea that I can not let go of for myself. This is very much why I cannot 'belong' to anything. Also it's why I choose to keep most of my experiences to myself, be private, and work at self-reliance. I imagine if I had been one of those people at RSE entangling myself and my social life into the trappings of the school....and worked at carving some kind of reputation there.....it would be much harder for me to speak my truth! But instead, I feel much more 'free' where I stand now. And 'nothing' is closed off from my mind. Nothing is 'stifling' me at the moment from progressing to where I want to be. There is no 'lack' of magic in my life. Quite the opposite!

I can also say, it's ok to be 'confused' sometimes or wondering what is the 'truth' with all this! Just allow your self to be as you are! When I was in that school it's like because everyone is so ingrained with so much 'philosophy' and dogma....there's nothing you can say to them people! There's sometimes no one to talk to! No one to hear your pain. But there still 'is'. 'You' hear it. You experience it! And you live still through it!

As an aside, you know....I've never been one to 'quote' things...much. I was just remembering this simple bit in that book "Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East"......It was this scene when there was a gathering at a table of Masters and one of the guests from the expedition asked the Masters "What is the greatest attribute of God?" The reply was "Love". I thought "what a great and simple question! I never thought to ask that question before!"

sera
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:55 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by sera » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:13 pm

@Mindstate

Hey thank you!! you made some very helpful points about the gambling winning focus.

That is what I really needed to hear, so I am glad I reached out.

And thank you for your supportive encouraging words.

I still have ALOT of work to do on my addictive/impulsive/emotional nature, and your words helped me to see that.

Thanks again to all and bless...

joe sz
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by joe sz » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:00 pm

this thread might even leave Heidegger breathless trying to catch up with the platitudes and heavenly ideas! Heidegger remains on the short list of important 20th Century philosophers. The reason I bring him up is not because he was in sympathy with Nazis, rather his late work bordered on a mysticism, beyond philosophy and into speculation about "WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT." Or as the Vedic tradition states it, Tat Svam Asi [Thou Art That].
and what is That?
getting past the Sanskrit language game of moksa or ultimate freedom in the Atman/Brahman identity, the sages in the Upanishads beg off saying the mind can't go there. Any thought of That destroys That.

One Christian mystic called "it" The Cloud of Unknowing."

What I am bringing up here is how easily we are tempted or attracted to that cloud, to 'gnosis" and then how easily we can be convinced that there are techniques or rituals that enhance our possibility of achieving the ultimate.

The ultimate is the ultimate bait for any cult leader.

I call this the transcendent bait that so many gurus and fakes like JZ use to attract recruits---we all want a piece of the Freedom pie, don't we?

The switch come in when RSE members or any cult member buys into the techniques at any level. All techniques are limitations or traps that you will never get out of..no one gets enlightened by wearing blindfolds, mindful walking, stretching psychic awareness in casinos, praying fifty rosaries....

I think some of this was mentioned above by two or three of you.

I don't have any advice for anyone hooked on the desire for transcendence, but good luck little fish! Hope you grow your feathers soon....

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:11 am

Hi everyone,

I thought I was complete with what I had to express in this thread up until now. And I will have to catch-up some time later with any previous posts or general discussions. There is more however that I want to leave here for now. Ever since I posted above about my old friend 'John' from San Fransisco (ex RSE student.)...and I have a confession to make about that. The reason I posted that original message about him is because I remembered him while in focus. And I hadn't thought about him in a long time. But once I remembered him after all these years....the significance of our connection came back to me like being hit with 5 tons of bricks. My soul has been very heavy and wondering about him as I never saw him apart from events and not since like 6 or more years ago. Last few days I have been experiencing many different phenomenon connected with him....unfortunately 'not in the physical' sense. I won't tell about these manefestations. But if he is alive and well....my focus is that we will meet again. All is on my mind to know where he is at. I'm focused that if I do ever see him it will just come naturally.

My main intent with this post is to expand more on how beautiful he was as a person.

I remember this one time at an event…there was this long ‘break’ period. It might have been longer than an hour. We were just chilling at the smoke pit. I was in contemplation. He was sitting right next to me focusing on his cards. I remember him dropping one of the cards. As he reached down to pick it up. He sais “damn! (examining the card)….I have to throw it away…it’s ruined!” I offered him my clean ‘back up’ deck for him to use. It was different than my normal deck but the same as his. He was grateful! He was the same way as me with the cards! You get one scratch on it and your mind starts to remember what that card is through so much repetition. So you have to throw it away because cards like this become the annoying cards in the pack. And clearly he would not tolerate anything that would taint his observation that what he was doing was ‘real’! I’m sure he went through many different decks!

One of the distinct things I remember most about John ….he wasn’t handsome…and his eyes didn't line up 100 % correctly either..his dress was….nothing to remark about….cloths that you wonder if it was the bottom of the pile at the thrift store…It was beautiful to me because…( Yes I am straight LOL) …I did check him out so many times…marveling in how despite his appearance…he was so beautiful! You couldn’t help but love him. He had a humbleness of character I’ve never seen. And it what so beautiful observing this soul and his journey with the adventure with the cards! I saw how it made him feel. And that is worth never forggeting. This helps me remember that there is light in whatever dark place I ever find myself in!

The period where I was seeing him from event to event….I felt this soul connection with him and particularly around the cards. As a matter of fact, we both had decided to take up the cards after that initial event where we saw it demonstrated on stage! I remember each and every new event we saw each other again…months gone by and we would discuss our journey’s and progress…it was like we were in perfect sinc and progressing together in parallel living many miles away and different states apart. In ‘all’ our discussions about the cards….there was never the slightest hint of ‘comparison’ between us… no ‘score’ keeping at all! not the slightest hint of ‘competition’. Just ‘joy’. As a matter of fact….if we had both decided to practice the cards together….I’d be over joyed if I got zero percent correct and he got 100% correct….just as much as if I had got them all correct!

It confuses me why I never thought to ask him how we can connect long distance between events. I don’t think the thought ever came to me to ask any contact details. I can't reason why that is. He felt like a brother that would always appear at the right time and would always be there.

Yah that’s pretty much what I have to say about that here! Now, if John ever reads this and he is out there in the world….he will know for sure to get in touch with me! :)

John...Black dude with the eyes....janitor from San Fransisco...you know who you are! ;)

Ockham
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by Ockham » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:31 pm

Thanks everybody for a great discussion. It is great that everybody seems to have a reasoned and gentle attitude. I am not in RSE, but I have friends and family that participate. I don't find RSE wholly good or bad, as is the case with most things in life. I believe there are a lot of beautiful people that go to class, and if nothing else, RSE is a meeting space for them to share in their spiritual pursuit. On the other hand, I am not too impressed with the curriculum, if you can call it that, of RSE. Of course I only have access to the RSE material that is public, but the RSE material doesn't impress me, seeming to be not much beyond popular New Age philosophy that is borrowed from several sources. In some cases, RSE material conttains fairly significant errors of easily observable and verifiable fact in the field of quantum physics. Such overt inaccuracy through several editions of Ramtha (so called white book) make the text seem more like it was written by somebody with an incomplete science education science rather than devine channeling.

What bothers me is that RSE charges a lot of money for the experience. For people such as movie stars that have more much money than they need to be secure, the expense of RSE is no big deal. Some of my friends are obsessed with taking RSE courses to the point where they have sacrificed financial security in favor of taking more courses. As far as I can tell from the outside, they're getting a rehash of the same stuff. My friends are happy and they love it, so in that respect the RSE courses are good, but living below the means of stability is not good. To that extent, my friends are creating reality, but it seems a bit like fantasy to me. From what I have read on EMF, there are people that become so hooked that they become destitute and die an early death.

I have not met Judy Knight personally, so I have to go with other people's assessment. I think in the mid 1970s that Judy Knight may have actually believed she was channeling Ramtha, but pretty early in her career Ms.Knight realized there was good money to be made from the Ramtha Dialogues. Eventually shady business people institutionalized Ramtha as a product and charged considerable money for the experience. The early material from Judy Knight doesn't have much to say about quantum physics and reads like a restatement of Vera Stanley Alder's and other Theosophist texts. I wold not be surprised to find out that Judy Knight attended a Werner Erhard EST seminar in the late 1970s and that is when the quamtum physics got folded into the Ramtha story.

I don't mind the Ramtha story. It is the way the franchise is run that bothers me. I think Judy Knight herself has gone off the rails with the wine ceremonies and apparently promoting the 2012 doomsday stuff which she should have known to be total bunk. There are a lot of corrupt practices such as the Omega financial scandal and various qack medical scams that RSE has apparently allowed to go along for the ride and people have been harmed as a result.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:18 pm

Thanks Ochham! I agree mostly and these things can't be stated enough!

Bless your families! As it sounds like a number of you have family in school.

The reason so many in that school are poor is very much to do with that they are 'unprincipled'. They may have a philosophy but if they had any 'principles'....they wouldn't be trying to buy 'commons sense'. A great man (nothing to do with RSE) taught me that 'common sense' cannot be bought at any price.

They think if they left the cult they would lose their leader. LOL LOL! They would only lose some really petty things that their humanity grasps so tightly to. They wouldn't lose anything of value!

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:46 am

I think we've expressed enough in this thread about the authenticity of the 'great work'. Hopefully, readers will see clearly that it belongs to everybody. I will also remark that I have seen more great things done in the world by people who are not affiliated with RSE and probably aren't familiar with that nasty cult! Maybe that cult isn't eating your babies....but it will eat 'you'!

Just wanted to make an observation....and I'm not sure if this has been discussed in this forum. It's kind of connected to what David was saying about 'shills'. And I don't claim to know everything that goes on around there. I haven't been there in a while. However....the light it puts out into the world has only 'dimmed down' from my perception. I mean....listening to interviews of many students there ....reading articles after articles on their website and elsewhere........Let's look at "FACTS".

Fact:

-RSE is a 'corporation' and it is a 'business for profit'....maybe you should have one too!

-Some of the prominent teachers and staff have retired recently. Not to be heard from again. New faces are taking their place. Not suddenly....but there are always certain people who have always been 'important' people around the school. These people are always the ones you see recognized doing the disciplines at school. ( as an aside, I have been to the center of the TANK and never had my name called. Even though it was noted when I got there. I didn't do anything about it even though I was encouraged to stand up and say something. But you will always see certain faces recognized for all sorts of things that go on in and out of school. Not all of these...but many of these are 'shills'. Most of it is not that remarkable what they do as I've discussed in the past....They sure love the attention those little sausages! If they are 'good' little boys and girls...they will move around and up that corporate ladder. Next time your are at an event....take a good look at who you see and what you observe. Just learn and 'think' for your self! )

-whatever the teachers are telling you.....it is 'marketing'. OK....just marketing!

-Students in the school aren't getting any younger or prettier......that is no kind of judgement about 'beauty'....but has anyone stopped and thought about what they want to be doing in say......25 years? :/

Are there anything I am forgetting here guys?

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:47 am

Here is a little something from the back of my sock droor. If, you don't want to be a 'gambler'. Wonderful! If you like your games and would like to play off into the sunset happily and wonder if you can enjoy abundance and freedom and still play your games.....learn everything about gamblers you can. And don't be like them! For example you will notice the 'last' bet they always make at their times at the casino is a 'losing bet'. Whatever your 'strategy' is....doesn't matter what you call it...make sure you always 'cash' out after (2) consecutive wins. You will notice that the difference over time is huge if you think about it. Also, even if you are only playing or practicing or testing at home...in the quiet comfort of your own company........don't end whatever you are doing on a 'loss'. Even if there is no money involved and it's just you at home. If you think this 'principle' is worth taking seriously....be 'consistent' with it at all times. Hope you like this! :)

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:51 am

Oh I forgot to add...about that there are only 'rare' times when you wouldn't be able to follow this principle in the casino. Those times are rare. And it is way you will have 'stop-losses'. :)

California Dreamin'
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:15 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by California Dreamin' » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:00 am

Hello Mindstate -

Thank you for your participation in this forum. I really welcome and honor your experiences.

I've been reading this particular forum for the past 20 minutes and have skipped many of the subsequent postings by yourself and others (which I will read when time permits). I hope I am not redundant in what I have to say, but in the interest of time I'll jump ahead of reading all the posts of yourself and other and take that risk.

Your experience at RSE was totally different than mine - I missed the Henry Sugar teachings by about a year or so. In my experience, I was at RSE to further devote and enhance my journey on my spiritual path. The magical experiences of what my mind and body could accomplish were a bonus.

I will be the first to admit that I personally had magical and wonderful experiences at RSE. My HUGE GRIPE AND RESENTMENT is JZ Knight and the one-time devotion I felt towards her and the ramtha character she perpetuated. She drained me spiritually, emotionally and financially. I am turning this all around 12 years later, but I was so duped by her.

Sounds like JZ may have wizened up and not fed your group poisonous LYE etc. Lucky you.

Thank you, Mindset, for posting.

CD

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:51 am

Hello Mindstate, everyone.
I have read your posts, most of them, enough I think.

If you go into a Casino, and give money to that casino, whether you win or lose, doesn't that make you a gambler? Casinos operate under the principle of having odds rigorously in their favor, and every 'game' in a casino is designed to make you feel as though the next big win is just around the corner. Sound familiar? I can't get beyond the fact that it was JZ Knight who convinced her patrons to 'use' her magic tricks (disciplines) to gain an edge on the casino. In my opinion, a rabbits foot or horseshoe would give gamblers more of an edge then JZ's hokey nonsense.
When you think about the new gambling angle JZ instilled to her audience, its all about the hook. Convince someone that by simply breathing in her 'copyrighted' and 'trademarked' way, they will have an advantage when gambling, that misled soul will attribute every win for the rest of their lives to JZ Knight and her brilliant 'spiritual'' Great Work. The 'Great Work' is the single most destructive set of hijacked principles and plagiarized regurgitations since 'Mein Kampf', and it saddens me to no end that more isn't being done to destroy the charade and charlatan who perpetuate such evil practice.
I have a very strict moral code today and become unsettled when new age nonsense and unverifiable phenomenon run amok over common decency and common sense.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:08 pm

@ Freemysoul and everyone

I can assure you, I'm no hatefull bastard. I have met rich people. I have met rich winners. People who likely if you talked to them have never heard of the word Ramtha. And they could take the casinos to the cleaners. But then their income would be take to the cleaner as well.

Since I am not hateful, I have a mission for you. Go on the RSE newsletter website and scroll all along the 'student accomplishments' thread. If you see anyone mentioned more than once, keep an eye on them. And bless their hearts. They have missed the kingdom of heaven by a lot more than 'walking distance'.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:38 pm

For good measure..........I'll add I have focused "off-campus" with many a Ramster in archery. You would not believe the way of the disrespect certain ones have for their fellow human being when on the stantions side by side in what is supposed to be 'private focus'. One bitch couldn't keep her cell phone off for more than a minut and every time my girlfriend and I were at this private archery range....this bitch had to answer and talk on her stupid phone loudly...stomp around and basically make sure everyone knew she was most important anywhere she goes and no one else matters to her unless she looks good. If I pointed her out to you....it would look bad on me. Whatever you want to say about that...........I'll say I have seen all I need to see about many people in that stupid cult and you can observe my last post and look them up in the 'story' threads. No one is being recognized who are worth remembering. "ANYBODY"!

Ockham
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:15 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by Ockham » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:03 pm

The disciplines must not be all that effective because the Nisqually casino is still open for business. Judy Knight isn't big on altruism, so it is not like like the Ramtha students are letting the house win some times so that wealth can be shared with the casino operators and non RSE patrons.

The principles ought to be the same for manifesting what you need directly as they are for manifesting a winning bet at the casino. It makes more sense to cut out the extra layers of complexity of gambling then going out to purchase ones needs. RSE promotes gambling because gambling is relatable, while doing disciplines to manifest a new car suddenly appearing in one's driveway or a box of money from nowhere showing up in the mail slot is not easily relatable. Of course the latter notions are not relatable because they are fantasy at best. On the other hand, roll the dice and you might win; if you don't win it is because you didn't understand the disciplines.

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:43 pm

Mindstate,
Can you decipher this for me, I'm not sure what you are saying here: "Since I am not hateful, I have a mission for you. Go on the RSE newsletter website and scroll all along the 'student accomplishments' thread. If you see anyone mentioned more than once, keep an eye on them. And bless their hearts. They have missed the kingdom of heaven by a lot more than 'walking distance'." Isn't this something JZ Knight said at a 'wine ceremony'?
Also, maybe the cell phone (*#^$%) wasn't the rudest, most selfish person on the range that day.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:26 am

freemysoul wrote:Mindstate,
Can you decipher this for me, I'm not sure what you are saying here: "Since I am not hateful, I have a mission for you. Go on the RSE newsletter website and scroll all along the 'student accomplishments' thread. If you see anyone mentioned more than once, keep an eye on them. And bless their hearts. They have missed the kingdom of heaven by a lot more than 'walking distance'." Isn't this something JZ Knight said at a 'wine ceremony'?
Also, maybe the cell phone (*#^$%) wasn't the rudest, most selfish person on the range that day.
Mmmm must have been having one of my moments! These things are intended for the purposes of making observations and hopefully learning a clearer picture of reality.

As for the archery range....there were many days like that and yes you make a good point! She wasn't the only one. But...........she is just one example of many cult followers who on one hand...don't care about anybody whatsoever unless is makes them look good with their spirituality and everything else. These same people who some of them go to great lengths to have a story about them regularly, often, and about anything.....and attribute it to the great work no matter what it is. We don't have to hate these people. But it doesn't hurt to observe and know. Personally, I have the hardest time watching people make so much display of their spirituality when clearly they are rotten to other people who have no consequence to their reputation. I have no problem saying that!

But their are many reasons I say these things here that I'm saying. I don't need a forum to rant in. I'd like to draw attention again to one of the point I made early in this thread about 'why I think RSE is a cult'. The point about that 'attitude' the 'us/them' attitude. ....They are drunk and dumb with this attitude. They think they are so special with their spirituality. And they think whatever they do at the casino is 'special'. I'm the voice that sais.....'get real! You're a gambler'!

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:54 am

Oh also I 'do' give a lot of attention to this 'we/them' attitude because it really stinks. And the effects of this attitude are quite big. It explains a lot of the behavior we can observe and is why so many times friendships are found to be held together by not much more than by what one 'belongs to'. On one hand, there's the 'perception' that one belongs to a lofty community. They are their own bubble or island and the rest of the world can rot or to hell with them! On the other hand, there's the perception that we are all people sharing this earth...brothers and sisters. Any feeling of evolving or transformation on a personal level is only one becoming 'more' of what they are. An more authentic refined version of them self. No different or special from anyone else. 'Love' isn't a belief. 'Love' isn't a 'moral'. 'Love' takes practice and development similar to lifting weights. You can't lift 300 lbs the day you decide to start working out! Similarly you won't be able to 'love' the whole world the day you decide to start loving 'you'! Also something to point out, one is 'visible'...the other is 'Invisible'. I have a name for 'love' I have addopted all my own. I call it the "Invisible Flame".

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:44 am

Ah yes, one more thing......I have something 'constructive' for all those ramsters out there....and something that might be worth trying out next time you're at an event. Now I know this might be challenging to do.....but it 'is' possible to love the teachers and staff at your cult! Try this out: When you look at them, instead of thinking about what they're saying (yahhhhhn!).......or instead of thinking about how much they're being paid.......have a good look at the 'cloths' they're wearing. Take note of every detail .....the colors of their cloths.....and just embrace these simple little things......let your mind just look at these things for a while. Then, report back to us (or not) what you felt like. :)

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:51 am

freemysoul wrote:Hello Mindstate, everyone.
I have read your posts, most of them, enough I think.

If you go into a Casino, and give money to that casino, whether you win or lose, doesn't that make you a gambler? Casinos operate under the principle of having odds rigorously in their favor, and every 'game' in a casino is designed to make you feel as though the next big win is just around the corner. Sound familiar? I can't get beyond the fact that it was JZ Knight who convinced her patrons to 'use' her magic tricks (disciplines) to gain an edge on the casino. In my opinion, a rabbits foot or horseshoe would give gamblers more of an edge then JZ's hokey nonsense.
When you think about the new gambling angle JZ instilled to her audience, its all about the hook. Convince someone that by simply breathing in her 'copyrighted' and 'trademarked' way, they will have an advantage when gambling, that misled soul will attribute every win for the rest of their lives to JZ Knight and her brilliant 'spiritual'' Great Work. The 'Great Work' is the single most destructive set of hijacked principles and plagiarized regurgitations since 'Mein Kampf', and it saddens me to no end that more isn't being done to destroy the charade and charlatan who perpetuate such evil practice.
I have a very strict moral code today and become unsettled when new age nonsense and unverifiable phenomenon run amok over common decency and common sense.
Freemysoul, I share similar feelings about that whole thing. There is another 'layer' to this.

I've shared before that 'gambling' is distinctly defined by 'risk'. If one can eliminate 'risk', it's only then not gambling. I do agree with all your points about JZ ....cult stuff and even using it's students as tools whenever they 'win' anything to 'sell' others on coming to RSE. It's not in the students best interests to have the world know what they win or what they do for that matter. Their 'greed' and their ego are what cause them to allow themselves to be used.

What's this 'other layer' though? When we are presented with situations that challenge our beliefs of what is 'possible', this is an opportunity of a life time! We can ignore it, or we can allow our mind to explore if a solution to the impossible exists. These are magical opportunities. These are the situations in life where we find out what we really are. What stokes our coals! As always, these are my own words ok!

Giving easy answers isn't always the way. If I can make someone out their go "Wait...What! But I thought.....?????" Then it's possible for them to discover something new for them self. It may not be easy. But if they want it, they can create it! I'm not here to 'tease' anybody. Just offer some helpful advise to help people not gamble....and maybe provoke somebody out there to 'want' something more. "'Want' is the desire to create"...as was said in 'Masters of the Far East'. Hopefully, we can also freshen the air a bit about these subjects of gambling at the casino....and RSE. I thought the air was getting very stale in that regard! It's like, how long can this go on ...to continue to publish publicly ramsters gambling winnings when those same students want to be finanically free? And say that they are 'building consistency'. Anyone can win for even 25 sessions in a row and then have a session from hell. This is possible. 'consistency' must be tested rigorously. Also, the impossible has a long history of being proven possible. By who? By people who love nothing more making possible the impossible. :)

Shocked
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:08 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by Shocked » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:28 am

I agree with you freemysoul, I just don't understand why nothing has been done to stop her. It is complete mind control, but I guess everyone when they enter in the school, enter in on there own will, beyond that is there really anything anyone can do, no one was forced into her cult. It also makes me sick and very angry, even today, the mind control is still with me. I think about all the students that are classified the "elderly" giving there little bit of money they may have to attend events, and what they may be going without to attend. There must be some sort of law that protects the elderly because they are a vunerable population. I just wanna say WAKE UP PEOPLE ITS A CULT, the sooner you get out the sooner you may have a chance to have a life. I don't understand how many have the funds for the casino, I didnt have two pennies to rub together while attending that school. At one point I had to drive around to get firewood in ditches to keep myself warm in the winter, and alot of the students they dont want to help you or they can't because they are in the same situation you are but would never admit it. I am just so glad I don't have to hear "why did you manifest that for yourself". I use to thank JZ when I was focusing, for giving up her life to channel Ramatha, I felt she deserved her wealth, but of course that was when I was completely out of my mind, now I am just pissed about it, hate is such a strong word and I never want to use it, but I can honestly say that is how I feel about her!!!

joe sz
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Birdsboro, PA
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by joe sz » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:59 pm

Hating what she does is always appropriate, Shocked. Hating JZ is another matter. I would not trust her to walk my dog, let alone run my life with her ideas, and I certainly have personally aided dozens of cult members leave her circle, thus perhaps costing her mega bugs because many I worked with were quite wealthy. My deepest satisfaction was interacting with Jeff Knight toward the end of his life and while he was suing her. Jeff by all accounts died at peace with his friends and family. He had no more confusion over what RSE was--he said that my paper on Ramtha was "the icing on the cake" for him. He "won" and she is on the way to a ridiculous ending to her life leaving a huge legacy of debt for all those she lied to harmed..

Shocked
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:08 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by Shocked » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:18 am

Joe I hear and understand what you are saying and I know what you are saying is rationale and true. I don't want her to have that power over me anymore, and at times I have peace with what has happened and continue to move forward in life but in a split moment something will spark in me that is a reminder of the school and I just get very angry and hateful!!! I know I am only hurting myself. So thank you for the reminder!!! Life can just be so overwhelming at times!!!

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:51 am

@ Joe and Shocked and others..

I think we all share some kind of 'pain' that RSE has inflicted on us. A deep lasting pain. A justified pain. I know what has dug under my skin about that experience and can relate very much to many of the things I've read in these forums. And I will do what I can to help others heal also. Even if that is to listen to them and allow them to try to express themselves even if it is hard to articulate what they feel. It can be hard sorting these feelings out! You tell any ramster these things and they will judge you like you need 'help'....or say something to send you on your way feeling in shame for being bothered by RSE cult. Also, I've met 'Christians' who aren't actually that religious and are good people. And seem to have similar frustrations when recalling why they stopped going to church or why they pulled away from their religious friends and family.

Took me 5 years to find the words what troubled me about RSE:

1. Teaching me that 'God lives inside of me'...all the while trying to 'organize my relationship with God'. By...

-Trying to manipulate me and others into feeling like I 'need' to be there at events...purchase videos.....purchase books that JZ likes...Purchase everything. The TM slogan "Become a remarkable life"....I always found deeply insulting. It suggests you pay and come to this cult to become a remarkable life! They don't have any justified reason to market in this way because it implies that attendees don't already have a remarkable life and RSE is recognized as the place to 'get a life'. And the Million Dollar event crap is a scam as I said before.....what it means is "if you come to this event....JZ will make a million dollars". They don't teach real knowledge for wealth creation and as always....."RSE followers are JZK's asset; not students". It is not a school really. There are some good things taught at some events. But nothing like a school no matter what cute names they want to give the seminars. Followers insist it is a school but whatever it is...it dosn't teach much. What? Meditate and understand about your emotions! Is that it? They didn't teach how to make money or understand money...despite the scam marketing described above. They didn't teach about problem solving or 'creative thinking skills'....they didn't teach many things! Is that really a 'school' of the mind? No! It's spiritual cult. Not a school. A cult. Or.... That's some 'easy' school ....with destructive and painful side-effects!

-Teaching that God is in me but always trying to get into my wallet at every opportunity.

-Marketing that sais..."See! Look how our students are applying the knowledge from RSE to win big!".........When.........
They aren't winning. Winning even 1 million dollars 'one time' is not remarkable. Anyone can win money...have some big hits! That is everyday common things! It's just money. Earning multi-million dollar income every year for the rest of ones life........now that is something! That is remarkable because it is 'consistent'. And nothing is remarkable that isn't either "simple"....."Consistent"........"Love". :)

*Anyone have anything else to add? I encourage others....express what you need to express and be free of this pain. If we all understood that we are all 'children of the world who have gotten older'....we'd listen to others and appreciate them for all that they are regardless of how much they 'agree' with us! For it's a sign that we are not alone in this world. Let's heal this! It may seem 'bitter'. But it is wonderful also! It's real!

forever
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:43 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by forever » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:45 pm

MindState,

I used to love black jack. It was same as going to ATM. School had nothing to do with it. I had NO idea until many years "after leaving" that students were doing it

It's all been a journey. Teachings came along in my life decades ago. Blew my life apart. It's that it made me think. About myself as more than physical and as life more than relationships and "success". I went to school and it REALLY created havoc because of what i experienced.

It isn't the "teachings" as much as what i experienced, learned about myself on the field, tank and woods. I was never a part of student body. It was too wild for me. Too mean. The struggle for survival was great for a lot of students. And many were already cynical and disillusioned. Some were doing drugs and it was overwhelming-i left. Other than family and a few friends i have never told anyone about school. Over the years i embraced the teachings and it helped me. In terms of addressing issues. I was in no mans land. Had experienced too much to return to former life and "reality" but wasn't strong in myself without support of teachings. And went through difficult things in life that would NOT have happened if i had taken responsibility for myself.

Over the many years i went through an alcohol stage-to cope. Find solid ground, get my life back. Get free from people that i didn't want around me. More and more i turned to the teachings from events i had attended. And began to use to help get on my feet.

I always believed in God-whatever i thought it was. And there was always confusion within because i couldn't relate to how the world is-and i couldn't relate to students. So where does that place someone? In a very alone place. Over many years of very alone i worked to comprehend, embrace, know God. I turned to the teachings. Made it my life.

Then i began to go outside of the teachings. Go into history. Educate myself as much as possible. Learn, grow, get some questions answered. I went to MY God. I went within. Not Ramtha and the school as my God, but within MYSELF. And i grew.

As recent as December 2014 i was at casino. And as i sat there it came to me that i was degrading myself, i was degrading what's holy and sacred-to ME. The environment, people, alcohol, it all of it. I left and wont ever go back.

Listen, if i have to go to a casino for my God to give me money-forget it. If that's as great or big as God is..somethings wrong. In contrast to the unimaginable MIRACLES i have experienced.

When i discovered what's going on at RSE, lotto and casino i was horrified. At the focus being placed on it $$$. What has happened to the original premise and teachings of the school? Consciousness, Christ, HEALING, etc? And if you listen to your own words it says it all, a bunch of human beings on stage doing CARD TRICKS!!!

Imagine Jesus showing off? What's sacred is NOT exploited. To me that includes everything from sexuality to the teachings. Not RAMTHA or Judy or school, or who's who, but the teaching, "the kingdom of heaven is within".

I was uncomfortable when first beginners was taped. It was a form of exploiting students. For what reason? Was it really to reach the masses with answers for their questions, help with their life? "Becoming a remarkable life"? Or a corporation that created an absolute money machine?

What about the desperately poor that barely have food much less THOUSANDS? Would Judy give all that money to politicians if it didn't make HER look good and give her power? The alleged $$ she gives for scholarships to locals? What about the desperately poor wanting to go to an event? Any charity there?
For the many souls around the globe, wounded, hurting, confused, how does card tricks help them pull them self up?

After spending money to hear Ramtha, either at event ot streaming, how does it help anyone to witness the barroom atmosphere, vulgar attacks, rants? Is that healing?

Going back to the cards, i cannot speak to what THEY are doing but can from my own experience, far removed from any contact with anyone from RSE. And it's this, i have sat at a black jack table and raked money in-yes. When it happens i know it's coming. I have also lost my A.. a few times. Because i didn't get up and leave. And THAT is the tragedy of students and RSE. If someone goes once and gets something helpful-they are a winner. If they don't get out and keep going back-they are going to LOSE anything they gained and everything they went there with.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:04 am

Hi forever,

Thanks for a beautiful read! Actually, I wasn't going to post today but I am recovering from a hangover and so am going to write you while my head is recovering.

About casinos, those ramsters and especially the 'shills' who play at the casino....they are just getting lost in a pile of crap. What we need to recognize about playing at the casino to 'earn' money....is that it is a 'business' of 'self-employment'. It's not any more 'spiritual' than charging people to attend seminars or any other form of 'business'.

To set my hangover on the right track today, I'm going to help others experience real 'magic'.

When it comes to 'miracles' and 'super powers'....most people are greedy and just want 'super powers' so they can look good and mostly they are just greedy and want powers that bring them personal gain. They want ‘short-cuts’. There are no short-cuts.

That's not the way I roll! I am here to help people 'see' something. See how beautiful the 'invisible' is. By the way, I have not heard or read a Ramtha teaching in many years. I have no use for such material. All is ‘within’ me. I listen to the voices inside my brain and take them seriously because they have some cool sh8! All I post is ‘all’ my own words unless otherwise noted.

Quickly a point about ‘when people wonder where all these miracles are and where are the people with these abilities and why don’t they take James Randy’s money? It has very much to do with the idea of ‘holding ones power inside’. It took enough effort ‘gathering that power together’! The next challenge is holding the power.

I’d like to use an analogy. The city has this water pipe that they’ve been patching this pesky leak for over 20 years. It keeps leaking. Ever so often, crews come and dig up the pipe and put a patch on it. I talked to the crew leader recently and he sais this pipe has patches on it stretching for 10 feet. He laughed. He said that even the smallest pin-hole or slightest crack in the pipe that the water will force it’s self through it and make the leak bigger.

This is much like it is with ‘holding your power’. Understand that the slightest bit of information you present to the world to see about your self…not only has a tendency to grow as a bigger leak. It is an opportunity for others to examine this information about you with a big lens. Just some ‘food for thought’!

Moving on to the ‘magic’…..

As an aside, I can't help mentioning this song I really like Called "Room Without a Window" by Operation Ivy. I know my personality likes to talk about music! You won't hear any ramster I am pretty sure raving about old punk bands....but that song not only has very enlightened lyrics...you can't help but dance to it! It talks about how our minds are a room without a window...completely boxed in. It tells that we need a "window to a different way to see". And that is a fact! Because most of us only 'see' our own mind when we look at others. We only see the world through our own limited 'perception'. We are literally 'blind'.

What did the 'cards' do to me? Well.........my work trained me to 'see'. Along with other tools I have gleaned along the way in my journys (post-RSE). ‘Seeing’ is very much about looking at things from many different angles.


Some time ago earlier in this thread, I suggested people try to 'resist judgement' about the teachers and 'shills' of RSE if they are attending events. I proposed they forget what the teachers are saying for a time. Forget what the teachers are earning....and gaze at their cloths. To embrace simple things like their cloths and the colors of the cloths. I doubt many people took much notice of this point. And I admit this thread has gotten quite long. I will expand on what I was getting at back there.

You could try this exercise on anyone in the world. Doesn’t matter what they are….what they have done to you….Maybe they stole from you in some way and you know it but they deny it? Maybe they are a brazen liar!

If you look at their cloths….and I will note that this should not be done in a way that you are ‘staring at them’ outright. Don’t do this to make a scene or cause them to wonder what you are up to. Practice this undetected. It is ‘your temple’ doing it’s thing. Not a display!!!!

If you notice their cloths, you may notice that the cloths are not on a manikin. They are being worn by a human being. You might then ponder that that being ‘chose’ to wear those cloths. You glance at their eyes. Maybe not even making eye contact. Look how beautiful they are! See how clearly everyone are ‘children of the world’ who have grown older. Everything about them is beautiful. Even their beliefs that don’t agree with you are beautiful. Their problems are beautiful. You wouldn’t change anything about them if you had the power to because you are too much in ‘love’ with the way they are just as they are. Any fat-ass....any greasy slob.....anybody!

If you are experiencing what I’m talking about here and doing this right……you will see ‘like magic’ that the persons eyes look very different than you saw them before. You will see the eyes of a ‘child’ shining beautifully in front of you. And you will be silently in awe and admiration of the rose that is before you…..and I promise that the ‘effect’ of this secret and quiet admiration will undoubtedly reveal itself.

Learn to love ‘simple’ things! If you will do this, you can ‘love’ eternally.

Furthermore, if you apply this basic idea when you are ‘reading’ anything online. You may find the ‘words’ of the author become ‘animated’ in a way you never imagined before.

Make this day a ‘magic day’! :)

forever
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:43 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by forever » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:12 pm

MindState, in the early days Ramtha talked about having a teacher.

forever
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:43 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by forever » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:28 am

Hi MindState,

Glad you on here. I resonate with you. It isn't the physical, the magic is in the invisible. Miracles are personal and sacred to me. Me and my God. It's an inner journey. And that's what makes RSE such a blatant corporation. How do you take something sacred and exploit it for PERSONAL gain, fame and $$$$?

The last time i was at a casino is just that-the last time. It's degrading to my Holy Spirit. It's low. If students actually believe what's taught at RSE, 1, consciousness and energy creates nature of reality. 2, you are God. 3, make known unknown, and 4, conquer your self, why aren't students "focused" on manifesting from consciousness?

It isn't about reading a card or finding one on a fence. Making it to the void. That's about focus yes, but what good is any of it if the foundation isn't LOVE? Not to mention that love is a rung up on the ladder from survival.

I do not recognize the current RSE. It has become all that was taught about in early teachings. The more i see the uglier it gets. Distasteful, revolting, DARK! What i have is mine. It didn't get it from RSE of Ramtha. I am my own creation. It's between me and my God. I am not about to throw my Holy Spirit under the bus because of what initially inspired and motivated me. The theme used to be, " i will do anything to get you closer to your God". Bait and switch at RSE? More to it than i care to think about. A teacher is someone that leads by example. Not shackles. I have to admit, it has blown me away.

I have not been there either but have used to teachings to "get to the void"? meaning have my own hook up/source rather than depend on anything external. The teachings. Ironically, i had pushed and pushed for truth. I am not talking about $ and materials. Or being visible. "Important". I'm talking about something much greater. And in all the pushing what came right out of the air is the eye opener about RSE. Judy, it's history and agenda.

It was different in the earlier days. People had yet to die. History hadn't been written as yet. And now it has. There's 4 decades of history. And not ONE provable great accomplishment, avatar, master, Christ as a result of RSE. To the contrary it's about gambling, $, sex, power. IMAGE! What was "good" about RSE at one time as an opportunity to go beyond human limitation is gone.

I had to force myself to look at the video of a drunken WOMAN, that has set herself up as a channel, bloted ego and physically, a bully, foul...did you see the video? The great enlightened performance attack on Evens? Isn't my teacher. As i have said i just saw it last few weeks. And it only got uglier from there. And while there's NO doubt in my mind that to Judy (who took acting lessons) whose wonderful moment of fame and fortune arrived via Ramtha, even so at first there was something helpful. It seems to me that people that went but didn't "merge" with group, had an experience, got basic info and left...I see RSE as a black hole for those that merge as/with student body, make Ramtha their God and only source of information, make going to their next event their primary reason for living....it's a black hole.

The "great work" has NOTHING to do with finding cards OR doing disciplines. The great work is an inner journey and actually has nothing to do with Ramtha, RSE, Judys sexual appetite and frustrations. Does it? That people pay big $$$$ to have to listen to at the feet of their drunken master teacher? It's mind boggling.

Is Ramtha a complete fabrication? It's my understanding that before starting RSE Judy had started the "Church I Am" in Tacoma. Pastor. Resigned to start RSE. Yes, Life And Teachings Of Master Far East, major hook for me. Those books were written when? It appears that information from various authors was gathered, packaged, added to and presented as "original" and thus the ONLY place on earth for enlightenment. Major corporation.

Over the years a charade has fallen apart? Arrogance. She has her fame and fortune, isn't important or necessary to keep up the charade. With a 40 year history the proof is in the pudding. Or is the sauce? I don't think the "teachings" were EVER important to her, Judy. It's always been a business.

forever
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:43 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by forever » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:09 am

MindState, in reference to the clothes? The clips i have seen you tube clothes are masculine. Heavy.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:44 am

Thousands of people go to RSE each year. I wonder sometimes how one can 'teach' all of them?

Personally, I accepted 'the keys to heavon' when the Ram gave them to me. And they are my big-ass-sword. I am a humble owner of these keys.

These are the same 'keys' I have given all of you. And I didn't just 'give' them to you. I 'threw them' at you with utter abandon.

My work in these forums are complete. I will keep an 'eye' on these forums however yet. As I said, I stand by Dave.

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:48 am

Mindstate,

Speaking for myself, I would just as soon as you kept your 'keys' that you got from the imposter JZ Knight, as I have experienced the devastation these so called 'keys' have wrought, and would caution anyone applying these 'keys' to their lives as foolhardy and in most cases counter productive.
What exactly do you see as having accomplished Mindstate?
Spewing Ramtha quotes and manipulative ways to the masses hardly a humble man makes.

User avatar
David McCarthy
Site Admin
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:28 am

Hi MindState, everyone.....

MindState,
I appreciate your support and the very interesting thread you started on EMF.
However…
I agree with freemysoul's post and concerns.
Can you please explain/clarify the meaning of your closing statements :?:
> Personally, I accepted 'the keys to heavon' when the Ram gave them to me."
"These are the same 'keys' I have given all of you.

David.

(Moderator note.
- It is likely this thread will be split to a new thread topic -
)
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:27 am

The most powerful beings in the world are the 'simplest' of things. Our Dear 'Henry Rollins' screamed 'You never dig that hard...until the devil's in your back yard" in the song "inilate" by Black Flag.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:31 am

I am a simple man that love god and everything else. You will always wonder about me.

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:53 am

Like all the responses you've given so far to honest, fair and simply worded questions Mindstate: cryptic, muddy and meaningless to anyone other than yourself.
Extricating oneself from the clutches and mind raping holocaust of JZ Knight and her horde is an involved, personal and deeply troubling experience. There are people on this site who have more knowledge than you could imagine on recovering from this traumatic disaster. Its okay to not have all the answers for once, to allow someone to know more than we do, help us when we need it most. I know for me, it was the sanity of men like David and Joe and many others here, who easily have more experience dealing with the likes of JZ Knight than anyone in the world, who offered their kindness and giving natures to my obvious suffering, and it was "THEIR ADVICE AND WISDOM", not some plagiarized horseshit JZ Knight tried to manipulate me into believing, that saved my life.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:09 am

Very well put freemysoul! I will remind those who read that I have never spoken a single lie on these forums ever. I have never plagiarized anyone. I am my own. That is a FACT.

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:27 am

What if I told you I have been 'broke and homless' before? Would you 'like' me then? What if I told you that Judy (JZ) is the 'Ronold Mc Donold" of RSE? (I....Haaaaaaave............Aaaaaawaaaaays) Would you 'like' me then? LOL

MindState
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:48 pm

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by MindState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:31 am

What if I told you that I 'forgot' that 'facebook' existed quite some time ago. Because as the Ram say "the world is not my facebook"! Would you 'like' me then? Fuck 'all' who can't "Simple.....consistent.....love"! You are worms.

freemysoul
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by freemysoul » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:40 am

Now you have gone all breaking bad Mindstate, not a good argument for all your bumper sticker philosophies. I simply wanted to know what your motivation was, and you have revealed that very clearly.
I honestly hope you find peace and the help anyone whose been through JZ's ringer obviously does.
Nothing but Love

User avatar
EMFWebmaster
Site Admin
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:28 am
Contact:

Re: The "Great Work" is real. And the RSE is a 'cult' also.

Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:22 am

Thank you MindState
and to everyone that has contributed to MindState's thread.
This thread has run its course and is now closed.

The EMF team
qui tacet consentire videtur: He who keeps silent is assumed to consent

Locked

Return to “JZK/Ramtha RSE Supporters Debate Forum.”