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would like to disscuss the subject of the information generally taught at RSE is genuine and the big one "we create our reality"Lets leave out any ulterior motives that may be witnessed or seen at RSE and only comment on the information taught.
I have not been present for the "teachings" but am intimately familiar with many of them.
The big one, the foundation on which all the others rest is
"consciousness and energy creates reality"
This is then translated to Use your consciousness to create reality, you do it anyway, let us show you how to direct it to get anything you want.
As far as I know they do not claim that "we create our reality" which would translate into "I create my reality" which is in many ways a truth. They claim that "we create reality, or I create reality.
If we are using the definition of reality as the quality or state of being real and JZ/R claims that as gods we can manifest what ever we wish into that state of being real, I would say that is a falsehood. Just look at all the cosmetic surgery she has had done. So in one sense, she created a more youthful APPEARANCE but not more youthful organs or cells in her body. If she had, she would be all over Larry King touting it.
This is where the selective truth telling comes in to form the basis of understanding. If she claims that by getting cosmetic surgery is "creating a reality" that is true. Bought and paid for on the backs of her many students. She also has "fabulous wealth" again, bought and paid for on the backs of her students. As far as I know, there has never been any proof of any claims that she, or other students, or the big dude for that matter have ever done any of the things they claim have been done or are possible to be done through the "teachings"
David mentioned somewhere about a woman who had claimed to manifest a feather during one of the events. She later told him that she had bought it so then it should be included as a manifestation.
This is like cutting one hair and claiming to have had a haircut. Or, if you ask someone on election day "DID you vote?" and they say yes knowing that they voted, only in the prior election. They are not "lying" so to speak, but by leaving out substantial parts of the truth, it projects in the listener a perception that is a falsehood.
How about this?
What if it were true, that we could create our own reality, live forever, heal our wounds in milliseconds, levitate, walk through walls, bi-locate to where ever we wanted to?
What sort of world would that look like and is it more desirable then the world in which we live now and what might the long term effects be?
If everyone could manifest whatever they wanted, their would be no supply and demand, or would it become that one person could manifest a better loaf of bread then another? Therefore making one loaf more valuable then the other? That doesn't sound like that would be very feasible since once one determined the loaf as being better then theirs, they could match it with their own manifestation.
All this assumes that once this ability is a proven fact then it would be available to everyone. Or, would it be that only the "special, select ones" would be able to do this?
Continuing on assuming that this is and would be available to everyone, how would we handle the population problem that would become rapidly obvious? leave the planet? Manifest new worlds to go to? then manifest only the kinds of people we would like to be with to share the planet with us? What would we do if others decided to create their reality by barging into our new world? What if they didn't like us? could they create us out of their reality? Where would we end up?
We get a cut, within a few days our skin cells and bodies repair mechanisms go to work and in a few days it may be barley visible. We also got hurt, maybe stained our new shirt and ruined it and threw it away having just spent a lot of money on it.
In this world, we would have learned to be more careful (hopefully) because of the consequences of being careless.(assuming it was due to carelessness)
Have a look into a world where one could heal their wounds at will, in moments.
I am leaving my created house and going down the stairs, I trip, fall, break my hip elbow and neck. Which I instantly heal, I open the door and head out on the street. There I see a mass of people. They no longer look anything like what was in the "old" world. There are bodies flying, getting hit by cars, people getting stabbed, crashing through plate glass windows. Nobody minds getting hurt because they can eliminate the damage virtually instantly. Peoples bodies are a mass of ever healing flesh. Hmmmm.............
When I got home, my gal and I decide to have some adult reality creation, while we are doing it, someone who has just bi-located appears next to us because they wanted to create the experience of watching us, soon we are joined by our neighbor who is floating through the wall on his way to the grocery store. Would privacy exist??? How would it be enforced?
For me these have always been the many questions creating reality would entail. If it were true, what do you think it would look like?
Just how conscious would one have to be to create reality? do dogs do it? Brain damaged persons? What about the BAD people?? could they do it? What are the requirements for being able to do so?
According to RSE, one has to first and in order, Pay some dough, sign a restrictive agreement, progress in a linear fashion, learning non- linear ideas, get rid of ones doubt, learn and perform regularly a bunch of "exercises" many of which are done blindfolded, "create their day", do a "neighborhood walk", talk to "gladys" ad nauseam...... And the end result is?????
JZ is getting richer and richer (and crazier and crazier), people die attempting to become "Masters", some claim to be, but masters of what is the question, and then their is EMF a supposed puny bunch of disgruntled students who weren't able to hack it in the school according to Greg Simmons. I say the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Fact or fiction????
Truth is, reality is indeed more often then not stranger then fiction!!!!!
Which is to say I believe as humans we have free will and do not live in a completely Clockwork Universe of pre-destination.
Which is also to say I believe we all get to make choices and experience the consequences of those choices and then continue on with that game.
However, swami, as JTR brings up, this "free will" has resulted historical in the discipline and philosophy of Ethics and a body of Law.
RSE looks down its nose on Newtonian physics as they paint that viewpoint as completely Clockwork in nature yet explains 99% of our everyday reality. Oh pish-posh on Newtonian physics and let's get into Quantum Physics and then proceeds to paint that viewpoint as being the source for a magical existence.
Most of the critics of The Secret movie point out that it's focus is on the Law of Attraction and neglects the Law of Action. Bill Harris of Centerpointe says it this way: For any outcome you want, there is a certain way of thinking and acting that will get it for you. You just have to find that way of thinking and acting, and then be willing to adopt it.
There may be multiple ways of thinking and acting to achieve an outcome. RSE puts no boundaries on those ways whereas society does. Methods such as cheating and lying, for example. Oh sure, JZR and the RSE teachers espouse integrity from their pulpit but actions speak louder than words. Lying, cheating, stealing, and misleading have been rampant at the school and in the RSE community for years. Why? I think because of the pressure to "manifest."
And lately, the RSE teachings have blurred reality and fantasy in the extreme.
The neighborhood walk, in particular. We watch JZ claim "millions" have been aided by the teachings (a bald-faced lie - millions saw JZR in the movie What the Bleep which does not equate to millions being aided by the teachings), as James Flick conveniently claims he's never seen a No Trespassing sign on a neighbor's property where he took photos for a lawsuit, etc. etc. It is as though by simply imagining a different future or a different past, we can walk around speaking as though that fantasy is absolute truth. How ethical is that?
I wrote a humorous entry on the forum about taking the Neighborhood Walk to its logical conclusion in the extreme. If I create my own reality and live there in that neighborhood, why can't I go into any store and shoplift? If I'm stopped, why can't I just say, "well I don't know what world of lack YOU are living in, but I create my own reality and I KNOW I paid for this."
Frankly, I suspect the reason Audrey was so shocked by being called out for lying about her phenomenal accomplishment has to be because she lied for years and was rewarded for it by Ramtha (e.g., bilocating while doing fieldwork and landing on her back outside the fence, when there were witnesses who saw her crawl through the fence)
So I ask you, Swami, do you think there are ethical boundaries for ways and means of creating your reality? Or will the attainment of magical powers lead us only to more wars based on who can out-manifest the other guy? Have you seen the TV show Heroes? It is exploring the ethics of having super-powers as does the X-men movies.
I have been getting tons of e-mail from "Bill Harris" or his computer generated version since I sent away for the holosync sample (research purposes). I am amazed at the claims and number of so called masters etc. Thank goodness I am not a workshop junkie, otherwise, I might have spent close to $20,000 on events and things he has recommended so far as once in a life time or don't miss out.....
In any case, speaking of ethics, does not the statement below support and condone "The ends justify the means"?????
"Bill Harris of Centerpointe says it this way: For any outcome you want, there is a certain way of thinking and acting that will get it for you. You just have to find that way of thinking and acting, and then be willing to adopt it."
I think the quote itself is objective. He does say you have to be willing to do the thinking and acting that leads to the outcome.
It works whether a person wants to become a really effective terrorist or a really effective philanthropist.
I think the RSE expression of "create your reality" implies a person can always have their cake and eat it, too. That's not always the case in life. We have to make choices and we have to take action.
i have thought alot about this statement and agree with Mr Harris in his statement. As i understand we must have some influence on our reality by the way we are and act or attract as it maybe.i know of plenty of people (example) who are allways out for a fight or argument, no matter where they go and as sure as the sun shines they get it allways,so this same attraction or creating must have a certain formula or process for this to happen consistently.this I am endevouring to understand and yes RSE seems to have some of the formula.
Journey etc i follow your reasoning and have thought the same as how this may change the reality we live in.Quoting ram he mentions that for one to creat their reality it is from a different part of the brain (instantly I mean) and Jesus's amazing statement of "Ask and you shall receive" must have some merit behind it.
Hope we can talk more,not much time for me tonight
There is a great book called VOODOO SCIENCE written by Robert Parks (A physicist) where he explains in quite an amusing and readable way how even scientists get fooled. It is a real eye opener. It also has a section about QM that explains how it is really not wacky it actually makes things less wacky!! You should be able to pick it up at a library.
1) When asked an intelligent thoughtful question, "the teacher" responds with an intelligent, relevant answer - unlike Ramtha who it now costs $170,000 to have a conversation with
2) "Creating reality" creates consequences for which we are responsible - NOT ever emphasized by Ramtha
3) "Compassionate Action" in relation to "Creating Reality" - again, NOT emphasized by Ramtha
Everyone, I'm not saying run off and try Holosynch or Bill Harris. I'm trying to compare and contrast how "teachers" behave and also to expand on the "creating reality" question.
Bill, have you or could you address Ethics in relation to your statement:
For any outcome you want, there is a certain way of thinking and acting that will get it for you. You just have to find that way of thinking and acting, and then be willing to adopt it.
I love this and find it very succinct and more thorough than ?we create our own reality.? However, sharing this recently I was challenged that this statement encourages ?the ends justify the means? thinking. I argued that the statement is an observation. It applies to becoming a very effective terrorist or to becoming a very effective philanthropist.
Do you believe Holosynch assists people in growing in empathy and compassion and thereby becoming more ethical or able to establish better boundaries?
FROM BILL: The statement is about cause and effect. If you want a certain outcome, there is a certain way you must think (ie, believe, focus your mind, etc.) and a certain way you must act (certain actions you must take). Obviously whatever outcome you create also has consequences. Cause and effect is always operating. If your actions are hurtful to others, there are consequences. The more aware you become, the more you see those consequences, and the more your perspective expands to include that of others. You begin to see that the idea that there is ?you? and ?others? is an illusion, a way of thinking, not a description of reality. Everything is actually one thing, one flow, one system. Knowing this, you automatically become more loving, more compassionate. It becomes obvious that it is crazy to treat some other aspect of the One as if it was separate. Doing so would be like stomping on your own foot. Since Holosync makes you more aware, it does increase love, compassion, and increases compassionate action.
How much QM have you really read? What you've posted so far indicates to me that you're taking at face value the Mike Wright guide to QM. I fell into that trap myself.
How would you address this "Fact" about QM? It is relevant at small scales but not at large.[/b]
Yet RSE's teachings, using QM to justify them as truth, jump to saying Newtonian physics (proven to work at large scales) is out-dated and we should be paying attention to QM to manipulate reality on the large scale (even though science says does NOT support that leap of logic).
I borrowed the following from another website but she makes a wonderfully articulated recommendation:
If you really want to get a better understanding of quantum mechanics and why it?s relevant at small scales but not at large, I would suggest ?The Quark and the Jaguar: Adventures in the Simple and the Complex? by Murray Gell-Mann (won the nobel prize in physics for discovering the quark). He does a very thorough job of explaining quantum theory and complexity, and why the universe behaves so differently at different scales. He also has a section where he explains why the whole ?observer affects the observation? analogy is so badly, and incorrectly, misappropriated by groups [like RSE].
Well i havnt read a lot of QM only books recommended at rse and as this is one of the main concepts that is looked at
then i am trying to understand it more and I will look at that book journeyetc talked about.
my understanding is that the small makes up the large but can we effect the large from the small is my question.
These magnificent creatures are strong, powerful, sovereign masters ... yet you may observe how the small (the mouse) can effect the large (the Elephant) and have one enlightening experience.
Remember, that all things are relative, and that the tiniest microbe can effect living organisms significantly larger than itself. So, yes, again the small effects the large.
Are you learning? Please share with your cyber partners this teaching.
Sew Bee Zit!
The Quantum Mechanic (TM)
Fortunately, for me,
I think time (out) is on my side,
I started to read that and thought: "What a load of crap!!"
That and who is that dude on Oprah? Eckart Tolle.
Same bs. different cover.
I coulnd't stomach any of it.
I think I have a permanet bs meter ingrained in my brain since exiting and some good counseling!
Going back to your original post on this topic about commenting on information taught at RSE.
In my experience, I learned a bit about physics and biology at RSE. The information that was taught also just happened to be readily available for purchase at the RSE book store (formerly "bull pen," now "Quantum Cafe"). I was led to read many books by various authors, many of whom ended being guest speakers at RSE. So yes, I was exposed to some reading material that I probably wouldn't have read before.
After many wine ceremonies, I got over any inhibitions about dancing. I could have rid myself of these same inhibitions at the place you might hear referred to as The Prancing Pony. Came close to having an affair, since I truly believed that RSE was a reality in another dimension and that what happened at RSE didn't count in the outside world.
I learned that I am able to endure extreme physical challenges when blindfolded and sensory deprived. Another word for this is survival, which is a natural instinct in most healthy-minded people.
I only learned AFTER leaving RSE how gullible and malleable I had become - what a sheeple I really was.
Other than what I have sited above, the life tools I had PRIOR to joining RSE are the tools that have gotten me through the years before RSE and now after RSE.
Now, in sessions with my therapist, when issues arise that I need to resolve, sometimes she advises me to search within for any inner resources that I "surely" must have picked up during my tenure at RSE. The sad thing is, absolutely none of the teachings that I learned at RSE are transferable into my life after RSE. Sad but true. I have to rely on the inner resources that I developed prior to joining RSE to get me through today's challenges, and all of these were attained through self realizations.
RSE is not my reality anymore. I believe RSE is JZR's "Alice in Wonderland/Down the Rabbit Hole" dream being orchestrated and made real in HER reality. Amazing how she pulled it off.
Now I have moved on. I have my own dream to manifest, not JZR's, and it is called LIFE.
TO LIFE!!! (uh oh. Is that trademarked too?)
thanks Aussie girl and california dreaming for your comments.
Some RSE students do jump on things fanatically but not me.
California Dreaming you have had quite an experience dont know what to think of this.
One thing I feel is that some of the knowledge has been very beneficial to me and seems very reasonable at times to apply it.Some of the topics touched realy seem to be reasonable answers for the life we live in and even though it is referred to as brainwashing I dont think all of us are actually completely enveloped our lifes by and all that is taught being all there is.
Dr Joes lecture on the brain which is taught at beginners is very enlightening to say the least and i would asume he got it from Ram (correct me if i am wrong) and i suppose it can be found elsewhere but Joe did an exceptional job in his days.
I have put to practise focusing on an event i wanted to happen and did it very impecably and only for a short while and in the next few days it all unfolded like i wanted it to (allmost) I cant explain how this does happen only the way ram talks about it.
Like to here your comments.
Please look up and read on "confirmation bias" it is a world-wide psychological trait. It may explain more then I could. Here is an example:
lets say, I wanted to influence you to believe anything I said (I don't). You relate what you just did and I send you to look up confirmation bias, you look it up and understand its meaning and potential effects after doing so.
Because I had been "focusing" on your doing so, I now feel that I somehow created the fact that you focused on this particular event you mention which led you to post so that I could suggest you reading about confirmation bias.
Perhaps think about it this way.
Did you ever believe or understand about coincidences?
The big dude does not believe in them, his/her explanations cannot include them. It is truly just one of the prime examples of his/her own limited thinking and its ability to spread the contagion to others. Make sure this is the virus you desire to be exposed to.
That's pretty much where I am now, too.
I would LIKE to know the whole truth about the Mystery of Life, but it no longer drives me TO know.
I am, just as you said, simply JOYFULLY living my life !!! I revel in even the small things...like right now...it's very quiet in the house because everyone is asleep (and I'm on the way, too! LOL), and the windows are open, so I only hear myself typing on the keyboard, and the crickets chirping outdoors. So peaceful.
A woman that I met in Yelm, who had never been to RSE and isn't likely ever to go (she thinks it's a fraud), said something to me one day, when I was talking to her about my plans to leave/quit/graduate from RSE. She said that she knows of so many people who come and go through Yelm, who stay at the ranch as current students, for perhaps 2-3 years at the most. Then, they leave and that's that. She's watched this for MANY years. So, one day, we talked about God, and I asked her what she believes. She said she's not sure that she even believes that there is a God at all. But, she said she figures that in the end it doesn't matter because SHE still had a choice to make. She had to choose HOW (morally) she was going to live her life. If she spends each day doing right by others (and herself), and been helpful when she could, she's content with HERSELF. In the end, it is all about choice. Do we want to take the high road or the low road in life ?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz.....over n' out :o
we covered a lot of this in "Missed the boat" so i dont want to go off the road of what may be happening.
I have looked at confirmation bias and understand and it is very valid point, my query is that i apply what is taught and I get results, some people dont, so is this that is happening and taught at rse fact or fiction that I am getting some results here.
I am relying on myself now and not ram but some of his knowledge seems very applicable. If I was not getting results then i would say so but how are these results happening,,,,so,,,fact or fiction.
You seem to be jumping back and forth from a subjective point of view and then looking for objective viewpoints to determine if something is "fact or fiction" for you.
Without knowing exactly what you are doing and what it is that you think is happening, it is very difficult to make an assessment. Since you claim to be relying upon yourself. One way to tell for yourself would be to simply stop doing what you are doing for a month, try other methods ( perhaps non-esoteric ones) and compare to the previous month. Do the people who are not getting the results feel that there is something lacking in the teachings or themselves?
Do they feel it is fact or fiction after not obtaining results?
Would you feel it is fact or fiction if you didn't get results or would you have the same questions?
What would it take for you to come to a conclusion it was fiction?
What would it take for you to come to a conclusion it is fact?
If your real question is How can something be fact (or fiction) if it doesn't effect people in the same way that would be more answerable.
very excellent and "normal point".instead of trying to avoid loss and grief, learn healthy ways of coping with those emotions.... Most of us just lack the parenting to give us healthy emotional coping skills for life and we somehow think being able to control all life situations is the answer... .... emotions are our FRIENDS.....
The problem is, the "teachings" ( I find that almost laughable now) is essentially: emotions are not good.
One is constantly on guard to "be greater than your body".
And if per chance,you EXPERIENCE a heightened emotion (you ever see JZ throw a tantrum??),
they just chalk it up to "I was in my emotional body, but I did some C and E, drank some wine,
and now all is well."
uh....unfortunately, not for the person/people you spewed your reckless emotions and lack of control ON.
That person is left with your emotional gunk on them.
The RSE person goes on their merry way because "I live in the present"
and the spewee is left to sort through the afteraffects on their own.
What I find interesting is the fact that member of family members of RSE are responding primarily to this thread
(as that is what the forum is for-all of us).
The people who were students of RSE in the past have stopped responding because there is no convincing
the convinced. We know, we have been there.
Excellent for family members to be posting critical points of reference for swami.
Of course, that is insane. It's simply a lack of accepting responsibility for one's own CHOICE OF ACTIONS (spewing), and blaming the victim that they chose to treat like a victim with their emotional outburst due to lack of self control.
It's all so very twisted, and former students need to be real clear about this; they did not deserve any of the negativity spewed on them. With this comment I am referring to the current students saying of ex-students that they just couldn't do the work, they're quitters, victims, etc. It's SO far from the truth. It takes far more courage and overall wherewithall to let that delusion crumble, for what it is; fraud (in my opinion), and deal with the subsequent pain of having been duped financially, emotionally, and spiritually, than it does to keep living in a fantasy where you have no accountability and responsibilty, and where you treat other human beings as though they were cockroaches because you consider them to be social conscious swine.
There is NOTHING fourth seal about that. It's actually about as self serving and base as one can get, while calling oneself "spiritual".