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Enlighten me objectively
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I'm new, greetings to you

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Hello,

I have some questions regarding the beginning retreat of RSE, I am NOT a RSE student yet, but my beginning retreat is sceduled beginning of March. It seemed wise to share some thoughts before going to Yelm, although I am definatly going, since I already booked the flight and the place in the retreat...

But first, let me introduce myself, actually my name is Pete, I'm from Europe, Belgium actually, where the government is falling and reforming each half year, we have excellent beer and prostitution is legal in my country, we are the founders of new beat music and we totally slaughtered the Romans when they tried to imperialise this bit of the continent. Ever since we've been overrun by other countries. I did high school just untill 2 months before graduation, at that time I just had to go to Amsterdam and dindt quite felt the need to finish school, I worked in a car body workshop, as a sales promoter, a trainer for a helpdesk of a major internet providor, and then moved to Berlin. Quite nice..

I guess I just like to hear your side of the story, since you are mostly the people that have been there. Ive been reading some topics, and it seems you people honest and open... cheers to that!

So, hope we can share some thougths:

Ive been reading a lot of Ramtha's books lately, and a lot of other books as well (eg. the masters of the far east, law of attraction, deepak chopra's,...) And the thing is, did you ever read a book that, without thinking it over, you just 'felt' that this book was telling you the truth? Well, I got this experience with Ramtha, therefor I want to see for myself at a beginning retreat.

Now, how come that most of the members in here have had a negative experiene with RSE? How come that RSE is seen like a cult? How come that Ramtha is seen as a imposter? What I really like you people to ask is, is there any danger in it? Or did you actually benifit from these teachings? Did you found proof about the teachings to be uncorrect?

I just see myself as open-minded, free to learn, and I think all of you saw yourself the same way when you went on your first retreat, so what changed that? What was it that made you reject the theachings of Ramtha?

I hope you could supply me with some clear answers. Im curious, secretly I'm hoping all of you are wrong, since I will be wasting money if you really are right, so make it worth while... Im keen on facts, not viewpoints, hope you could all share your experience... cheers!

Kind regards,

Pete

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Enlighten me objectively
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:17 am

Still waiting for some thoughts, been reading some topics, they are really disturbing... :?
Found out that there are people who really have cut off contact with loved ones to dig a hole and hamster food? Jeeesh, what were you thinking? Was that your idea of 'become a remarkable life'? How did they get you to do this? Thats what the Nazi's did when they went to pay a visit to Stalingrad... They turned to cannibalism in late january '43... very remarkable life indeed.

Hope you you people will share soon...

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:32 am

how come that most of the members in here have had a negative experiene with RSE? How come that RSE is seen like a cult? How come that Ramtha is seen as a imposter? What I really like you people to ask is, is there any danger in it? Or did you actually benifit from these teachings? Did you found proof about the teachings to be uncorrect?
Dear Pete,

Welcome.

I will try to answer your questions as best as I can after having spent over 19 years in the group as a very dedicated, discipline doing, hard working RSE student for that entire time.
During my time in there-the entire 19 years, I truly thought I was gaining some very meaningful knowledge at the time.
When I had my day of awakening, I had, over time, realized, books like Masters of the Far East and BrotherHood of the Third Degree were actual works of fiction. I was led to believe, and TOLD by ramtha , that HE inspired these authors and books of truth. There was not one iota of truth in the books.
RSE sais that "scientific studies" that were paid for by jz knight (not truly impartial now, is that?) that said something greater than jz knight existed. But......this study, was REFUSED for peer review (as is the usual mode of scientific verification), so the study never made it to the highest ranks of proof.
I see no inherent "danger" in some of the teachings that are presented.
The fact is, nearly all of it is plagiarized from other sources and re-worded then copyrighted by jz knight.
The actual danger of the group is that there is brainwashing and NLP techniques that are applied by jz knight.
I am living (and documented proof) of the real time transition that takes place in the brain and mind BEFORE and AFTER
entering the group.
I can include PTSD, agoraphobia, anxiety disorder for starters, NON of which I had prior to being in the group.
I personally know of 6 people who commited suicide, 1 who was diagnosed with schizophrenia , 3 with PTSD, several who have died who thought they could heal themselves through the techniques of the teachings......
That is just for starters, the mental dangers.
Others have lost nearly all of their life savings going to all events.
Some have sold everything to pay for underground bunkers and ten years worth of food storage.
Others have spent thousands on air faire that cannot be accounted for anytime later just going to events.

I, and others, have posted documented proof on this website of plagiarized material.
Excerpts from such books as Morning of the Magicians, and then literally 12 pages of transcribed advanced events
that jz as ramtha later taught as original teachings.
Excerpts from Masonic Manuals that were taught as such disciplines as mirror work.
Reading through cards and candle work was taken directly from The Story of Henry Sugar by Dahl.

Peruse links here by Darren Browne on Google or You Tube.
Also the movie The Wave ( I believe on Google).
Also, Google Merv Griffin and Ramtha. jz's first appearanace on national tv saying there would be no end of the earth.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:40 am

Found out that there are people who really have cut off contact with loved ones to dig a hole and hamster food?
We Were told to build 2 foot thick wall undergrounds and buy at least ten years of food by ramtha.

Was that your idea of 'become a remarkable life'?
This slogan was developed only in the last few years by the marketing department of RSE.
When we first started in the actual school of ancient wisdom in 1988, we were told that we could ascend
in 7 years. RSE was highly touted as an ancient school of wisdom.
It is now touted as "become a remarkable life".
And BEFORE those times, it was a not-for-profit church.

ex
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Unread post by ex » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:53 am

<I just see myself as open-minded, free to learn, and I think all of you saw yourself the same way when you went on your first retreat, so what changed that? What was it that made you reject the theachings of Ramtha? >
its all on the boards.go and look for yourself if you r anyway spend your money.some people realy like it.new age seminars are big buisness.i needed 2 years to find out the disscrepencies and anotherone having doubts doing the right thing leaving.[before emf]if you ask me was it worth the time and money?definitly not.yes it cured some of my gulability.the teachings are not realy from ramtha.the problem is she uses brainwashtechnics and messes intensly with the seratonin and melantonin levels which wouldent be a real problem if she would take the hyrophant student relationshipp seriously .but you r only as a paing customer of intrest to her.jzr gives a rats as about the students.[/quote]

swamibinton
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Unread post by swamibinton » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:43 am

Hi EMO,
There is only one way to find out and that means to go and experience yourself.
I am a student but not current and have found some very worthy knowledge in the school but my perception is different from most people here and yes the members here have some very strong comments and information but in the end only personal experience will prevail..You must reason and question it all to come to some sane conclusion.
I dont agree with the marketing aspects of RSE as to me they go against what is taught,but like I have said to these members that I have experinced to much at school to say it was a fraud or not usefull.

Enjoy your Journey.
Swami

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Enlighten me objectively
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:15 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, especially yours Tree, you seem a very straight guy to me.

I have some questions for you:

-The masters of the far east is like th? book on spirituallity/esoterie, how did you discover that this is a work of fiction?
-The sientific study.. are you talking about the sientific study about Ramtha being inside JZ?? Like described in her book?
-Do you think the earth will stop existing? Personally I think not, humanity may destroy itself, but the earth will last.
-How about the NLP techniques, are they intended to suck money out of people? Or are they to reprogram yourself to higher you level of acception/belief
-Am I in for some danger at the first retreat, in terms of health? Messing with my chemical substance levels?

Anyway I agree with most of the members here, there is no love in sucking money out of people, if you love all of mankind, you would accept the people who dont have any money into your school. That is a statement that no one can argue, if you love all of us, you also help the ones without any money. And it looks that someone got greedy, since they started out well, as a non-profit organisation. So what changed that?

Eg, i studied a meditation technique (vipassana) It is the oldest in the world, it takes you at least 10 full days to learn it. For 10 days you are given food and shelter, and these people do it for free! The teachers are spending 10 days with you for free, the people who cook you meals, do it for free, food is free, everything is free, if you liked what you have learned, you can make a donation, if you dont have any money, no problem, its free anyway, and thats a statement of true love and compassion. I have had a lot of it in my life, and i recommend it to everyone... If you start asking money for knowledge, you are not helping others, you are filling your bank account. And knowledge is worth nothing when it is not shared with the rest of the world, when you keep it for yourself

Also it was very disturbing to me that ppl actually started to build bunkers, because non of this is mentioned in the books, all of this 'you are all doomed in the future fear spreading' Thats indeed brainwashing people, if you die, then thats the way it went, and you shoud accept that fact. But orginasing your life into a bunker with food supply? thats just crazy! Enjoy your life, love the people around you, love yourself, make your life worth while, and overcome life itself as you live it, thats what cought my attention in these teachings. What is that all about? In the books they encourage you to love and overcome, and in the retreat they encourage you to build a big bunker and store food in it, and react out of fear instead of love? Im not getting that part...

My guess is, Ramtha left this plane, and JZ is still trying to cover up that fact, because she is in business with his teachings, and yes, i do believe in Ramtha, because of his books, they are well written, but I guess you should have him as a personal teacher, or have him back in the days that he was still here.
It is just a guess, and I maybe wrong...

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your time, it was usefull

Pete

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:59 pm

Welcome, EnlightenMeObjectively -

I've been thinking about how to share with you my experiences in RSE, but one of the best ways to understand the progression of my Life After RSE experience would be to read my thread of posts on this forum. (You can do this if you go to Memberlist and click on a member's name.)

When I first discovered this website, I was an "inactive" RSE student who still believed in Ramtha. I was an active student for 13 years, and for the next 7 years was still a believer of the teachings, but no longer wanted to actively participate in attending events. I had long ago made myself a promise that when I found myself attending events for reasons having to do more with visiting friends at the school than for the teachings I would leave the school, and that is what I did. Something deep inside told me not to keep attending events, and I hated attending the last two events but didn't want to be a "quitter."

The last 7 years of my life after leaving were tumultuous and dysfunctional. What I realize now is that I was experiencing the repercussions of the damage that was inflicted on me via brainwashing by JZ Knight/Ramtha,

What I treasure most about my RSE experience is the friendships I made there. Now, unfortunately, my friends who remain at the school are becoming increasingly close-minded and ignorant about their predicament as RSE students. Most would take a bullet for Ramtha. They will not listen to any of my revelations about RSE, as they have told me they don't want to experience "doubt" or "judgment." Critical thinking is erased from one's mind at the school. At an event I attended Ramtha told the audience that he intended to "wash our brains."

And the alcoholism that was rampant at RSE when I left (and during my last 5 years there) was astounding.

I've been searching the EMF archives for an excellent report written by Joe SZ which reveals that many of RSE teachings were in existence prior to Ramtha, but unfortunately I can't locate the report at this time. HOPEFULLY SOMEONE READING THIS KNOWS WHERE JOE's REPORT IS AND CAN DIRECT YOU TO IT. It cites many, many of the teachings and suggestions that Ramtha uses in the events, most of which were presented to the student body as being unique to Ramtha.


I believe that the majority of people who are attracted to RSE in the first place are good people who are earnestly working on their spiritual evolution, just like you.

After you attend the March event, please get back to us and share your experience.

GOOD LUCK!

Wakeup-Call
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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:08 pm

Hi EMO,

I was a student for 11 years and moved to the Yelm area after being involved with RSE after a year.

I would add to the comments this advice for your retreat....

Here's basically what will happen and how they accomplish sucking you in to the belief that Ramtha has all the answers

Greg Simmons will ask you to suspend your disbelief and critical thinking for just a few days. In other words, just try doing the exercises and disciplines, just try on thinking that what they are telling you is true. Don't question and don't doubt.

That's the problem - you are persuaded not to question "just for a few days" and in that time you are given specific explanations touted as "scientific" for various phenomena you may experience or observe. Plus there is a lot of high energy, uplifting music that encourages feelings of inspiration.

The explanations offered are fantastic, not mundane, and this is very appealing to the human mind. Again, so it "feels" like this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

You will probably not get the "end of the world" teaching at this retreat, or you will only get hints at it. Generally, it's at your first follow-up event that you get coached on that information. Or an advanced student you run across will fill you in and you'll be told what an awesome manifester you are for getting that information drawn to you.

So my advice is to consider other explanations for your experiences, not just what is given by Ramtha and his teachers. For example, finding a card in fieldwork is to some extent explained through the mathematics of probability and statistics...if you bounce around a bounded area for an hour there are going to be some people who find their cards simply due to randomness. RSE never acknowledges this nor will they perform a study to figure out what that number is in order to show that the students are doing better than random chance.

In fact, there are many many studies that could be done but simply are not to validate/invalidate the claims of RSE students. The one study touted (and note that there is a separate thread on this forum on this topic) is the one JZ paid for and controlled. Ironically, the study actually states that JZ and her staff are more likely than the general population to be disconnected from reality and prone to not being able to distinguish when they are lying (my phrasing - read the study to see for yourself).

They will also show you lots of orbs photos and then hand you completely unsubstantiated explanations for the orbs - who and what they are, and why they are here.

It's not a waste of money if you're exploring and want to see the place for yourself. There are so many other options for teachers and methods out there now since the movie The Secret came out, my personal opinion is that you can find the same material JZ is re-hashing and passing off as Ramtha for far less money. And the major brainwashing with NLP techniques kicks in during the follow-up retreats. What you are told in your beginning retreat is something like "If you thought this week was GREAT, you can't even imagine what the next retreats are like when RAMTHA himself teaches!!"

So my advice is to hang on to your wallet and your ability to question and reason. As good as it might feel, don't just blindly start believing everything you're told by RSE staff and Ramtha.

Good luck with your journey!

joe sz
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Unread post by joe sz » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:16 pm

EMO asks a host of questions that could take days to cover with material and then that would only be an intro. iow, an exit counseling. Of course, as Sw Binton says, 'you'd have to experience it to know what that is' :? :wink:

Not reallly. You can take your time, research, exchange notes with EMF folks, etc.
iow, stop and think about it.
RSE uses doomsday/endtimes pressure to get you to jump onto the train. Once on, you may be going too fast to feel comfortable getting off because there is no stop to the ride. It will go on and on veering around bends and switching tracks until it or you dies. Jump off and you could get hurt. You will feel confused, wondering in some cases for years if you did the right thing.

How can that happen? Here is what one ex-RSE stated above from experience:
"[RSE] will ask you to suspend your disbelief and critical thinking for just a few days. In other words, just try doing the exercises and disciplines, just try on thinking that what they are telling you is true. Don't question and don't doubt."

Guess what?
The Moonies approach new recruits the same way----after getting friendly with you, one workshop will introduce that idea: Just as an 'experiment' let's shove aside all our precomceptions and prior beliefs, all that the world, the government, the parents and the schools have taught you....... :roll:

Nearly all the 'mass encounter therapies' or 'large group awareness trainings' or 'life coaching seminars' apply the same technique: have an open mind; put your old beliefs aside; let's clean out all the old garbage that's holding you back; do not let your monkey mind run your life; blah blah blah..... :roll:

The question is what will you replace that with? Garbage offered--garbage in--garbage retained-----especially if you "have a good experience" while listening to garbage.
Most NLP in my view is garbage---a misapplication of Ericksonian hypnosis.

Even if the new info makes little sense, because one is in that social environment among a lot of true believers, the new recruit [if he or she is at all human] will inadvertantly begin to adapt to the new social system, taking little queues, some subconsciously, to get in sinc with the hyperreal environment. Change will happen. No one really wants to be a stranger in a strange land.

Even spy reporters have come out feeling upset and confused after entering one of these mass 'intensives' or seminars. I have debriefed many in my day....

That paper I wrote might be accessed here:
http://home.dejazzd.com/jszimhart/ramthapaper.htm

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:36 pm

Allright,

Cheers to that as well! Got some straight answers already...

But wasnt the whole idea of analogical vs binairy mind (got it out of his book) that one should experience the subject, in this case, knowledge, for themselves, because in that case, and I see the same philosophy in boeddhism, they 'd better got it copyrighted, one can only gain wisdom by experience, and if the field work and other things they make you do pays off as well, I can understand then why they are asking for not questioning what is thaught. But the wisdom should be gained and prove itself to be the truth, the knowledge experienced should become true in reality.
To put it simple, the child you told not to touch the fire, because he would get burnt, is not as wise as the child that actually burnt himself. So, did or didnt that happen in your fieldwork? Im so curious :-)

Thanks wakeup-call for your reply, I'm happy I found out about this place. Im paying for some rounds after my retreat in Seattle or Tacoma! What you think?

Greetz,

Pete

PS: does my name in short makes me look like im some kind of wanker?

PSS: If I tell you the secret of eternal life, even if Im the first to find out, does that make me the owner of that secret? Thats just sad, because it doesnt, I got it from God, the void, as you will, by finding that answer, and therefor it cant ever be in my posession. It is knowledge that can be called upon by everybody, why are there ppl then trying to make money out of it? Shame on them... thats how I see it, hope Ramtha can explain me how he thinks about it. That would be great!

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:58 pm

joe sz wrote:RSE uses doomsday/endtimes pressure to get you to jump onto the train. Once on, you may be going too fast to feel comfortable getting off because there is no stop to the ride. It will go on and on veering around bends and switching tracks until it or you dies. Jump off and you could get hurt. You will feel confused, wondering in some cases for years if you did the right thing.
Oh man, Im already regretting I'm going to hear a bunch of doomthinkers (yeah thats a word in my language) telling me I shoud dig myself in fast! Because the world will soon stop existing... Coming to think of it, that should be the beautifull thing about the endtime if what they say is true, everything just parishes, Id rather enjoy that with my friends with a sixpack of beer instead of building myself a stupid bunker and live by myself for 10 years... You people should have the ability to ascend by now, I can teach you to build a 'made-in-Germany-bunker' for free if you would ever like that.. My family served in the Wehrmacht...

Hope someone will do me the pleasure of telling me such crap, I'll be posting my answer here...

Thanks for all your answers,

Also, nice some people in here did get some wisdom out of it, gives me hope...

Pete

joe sz
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experience

Unread post by joe sz » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:35 pm

I think there is some confusion about this idea of having to experience something to know what it is.
As a matter of utterly personal reference, of course that is true.
To really know what death is we have to die.
To really know what losing an arm is we have to lose an arm.
To really know what the Depression was like was have to have lived in 1933 and stood in the bread lines or taken our truckload of stuff and family on Rt 66 to work as migrant labor in California for 2 years---ie Grapes of Wrath.

To really know what a harmful cult is we have to be fooled by a charismatic leader and spend ten years of our lives draining our past and resources serving the group and leader's ideas. Then we have to struggle to learn what all that meant to gain any value out of the experience

Experience is one thing but choosing how we enter an experience is another. Choice is an experience too.
I used this wine example at the first LARSE. I have sampled enough wine in my lifetime to understand what wine does to me and whether it is a 'good' wine.

Let's say I am confronted by a cute saleslady at a winery and she says, "We have a new wine here, a pinot noir made from grapes grown only on our land."

I say, "I am not partial to pinot noirs--too dry for my taste." She says, "But you have not experienced ours!"

So, maybe I take a sip from the free taste test and spit it out. No I do not like it. I can choose to buy or not at that stage.

The question is this: How much of this stuff do I have to drink before I know what it is? One bottle? One bottle over three months once a week? Drink it every day for the rest of my life at the exclusion of all other wines? Do I have to stay drunk on it to know what it is?

That last question is exactly what RSE folks want me to do with RSE before I can say I know what it is.

That is a load of cr#p. I drank from Great White Brotherhood grape varieties through the 1970s. JZ has produced lousy wine even by questionable GWB standards [more like grain alcohol with kool-aid]---sure it will get your drunk. If you want that kind of experience, knock yourself out.

My advice is to become a fine wine taster and learn what is the best, then stick to it--or not.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:52 pm

California-
GREAT post.
very well said.

from EWO:
-The masters of the far east is like th? book on spirituallity/esoterie, how did you discover that this is a work of fiction?
My exit counselor showed me the book where the Author Baird T Spalding confessed to not even ever having visited the Far East until after vol 4 was written. Total fiction. This was my second question that I had for him.
My first question was How Has being in the group affected my 20 year old son.
The masters of the far east answer was highly highly shocking to my being as I utterly believed in that series.
-The sientific study.. are you talking about the sientific study about Ramtha being inside JZ?? yes Like described in her book? yes
-Do you think the earth will stop existing? no Personally I think not, humanity may destroy itself, but the earth will last.
-How about the NLP techniques, are they intended to suck money out of people? yes Or are they to reprogram yourself to higher you level of acception/belief used to program the person/student to a very different belief system entirely
-Am I in for some danger at the first retreat, in terms of health? Messing with my chemical substance levels? I am not sure how to fully answer this as the programming is very subtle, and you will not notice it.
In the older days of the school, sleep cycles were shortened as well as meal breaks not given very often leading to deprivation and chemical imbalances. The copious amounts of wine and pipe tobacco also added some interesting mixes.
We are not talking about just a glass or two....we are talking at a mininum of a bottle and a half to two bottles in a 5-6 hour period.

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:03 pm

swami said: There is only one way to find out and that means to go and experience yourself.

This is one of the ways of reasoning while in such a group. It is a very influential way to get you to acquiesce and then eventually participate long term in the group.
Then it will turn into what Joe Sz (excellent exit counselor, btw) said:
The question is this: How much of this stuff do I have to drink before I know what it is? One bottle? One bottle over three months once a week? Drink it every day for the rest of my life at the exclusion of all other wines? Do I have to stay drunk on it to know what it is?

And I will add: do you even have to drink any? to know the effects.


Now, while I am sitting here mulling this over,
jz and her staff read EMF.
The staff now knows a guy named Pete from Belgium will be attending the event.
I can guarentee you, just as when there is celebrity in the audience,
jz will ask the staff to make sure they know where you are sitting and monitor your reactions the entire time.
Ramtha will come out at some point and ask you, or the audience, some of these doubting questions you are asking in here.
Mark my words.
and then she will use the same rhetoric in a reply.
You will think it makes sense at the time, and omg, he can read my mind etc.
He will tell you that doubt is killer to your manifestations and greatness.
jz uses the word doubt to replace what is termed in all human's thinking as "critical thinking".
It is an essential part of our survival.
If you lose this, you will be demoted to the bottom of the Darwinian ladder.
You are for the eating.

It should be interesting.

Honestly, Pete.
I wish you wouldn't go.
You have already spent (used/wasted) the money for airfare and the event ticket (non- refundable, of course).
Don't throw your time away. or your brain.

Tree

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:35 pm

Hi Joe,

You seem to have an excellent taste for wine...

And a nice example of how much time does it take before you decide whats tasty, or whats cr*p...

And I think we both agree that we can only make a decision after the experience, no matter how long that takes for a person.

But my point is this:

I'll try to use an example. When I first used xtc at the age of 15, it was a NEW experience, a beautifull one, and it opened up my horizon, it
uncovered parts of myself that I dindt knew I had, I was unaware of... I defined xtc as 'a good experience' because of that first time. later on, that defined the value of xtc for me. I was convinced that there was no harm in it, because of that first experience. Each time, when I was growing up, when I did it, I always referred to it as good. This went on till the age of 26, when I found myself te be addicted, and have lost control over myself, I couldnt go out anymore without it. And then I got the understanding that xtc can also be 'bad experience'. Now, in wider perspective, I could say I experienced the subject xtc. From good to bad, from heavenly to pathetic... That is my experience of that subject, And I know what it is, I've dissected it. Probably the same way you have dissected cults.

Now, like you've said, you know you are not a big fan of Pinot Noir. Lets say you are a big fan of a Bordeaux, for example. Did you find that out by drinking that wine and find it to have a good taste? Or a nice fruity bouquet? So that you preferred the caracteristics of one wine above the other? Or did you ask yourself, what is it that Bordeaux does with me, inside? And why does Pinot doesnt have the same effect? Because in the end of the day, its all made out of red grapefruit, only the taste, age, amount of sun, ... is different. In my opinion its not about experiencing different sorts of wine, its about what effect has wine on my personality, on my way of behavior, on the way I'm thinking, on the inside... How is Pete when he is sober, and how is Pete when he had a few bottles of wine, and how come that alcohol changed sober Pete into almost drunk Pete. What happened? Thats what the wine does, it changes the way you think, it changes your personality, if it's Pinot or Bordeaux doesnt matter, thats only the taste the wine has. You dont like Pinot because you like Bordeaux better, in the end of the day, you like to have some wine with your dinner, and have a nice conversation with the misses, or the kids... You like the effect that wine has on you, and if they banned Bordeaux from the market, you would learn to appreciate Pinot.. Now then, is Pinot then a bad experience? I think not, it is a less good experience then Bordeaux.

With the xtc I just like to point out that I had to learn my boundries, I had to learn how far I can go with that, and even today in the weekend, I'm 29 now, I'm still doing xtc, lets say once in 3 to 4 months... If I stop going out I could still be doing that with my best friends, maybe on holiday at a sunny beach, maybe I will stop doing it. The point being that a cult isnt necceseraly a bad experience, you can get inspired by what they have to offer, without becoming fanatic and start building bunkers. That really shocked my by the way.

With the wine I'd like to point out that an experience is something within, and not something out of you. I lived in Berlin, that was an experience, the way germans are to the point, the way they handle matters, that really changed me within. Its was not about having berlin nightlife and see the history of that city, it was the way it changed me, that was the experience for me. I came back different. I learned about myself over there.

Now, you see, I'm not all to happy about what I've read on this forum, it makes me angry, it makes me wanna set the place on fire on the 5th day... yeah :-)
But the knowledge experienced in RSE, is that valueable? Without the criticism like they ask you to drop, without JZ being an imposter or not? Thats something id like to know..

To answer your last question, if RSE folks like you to stay around till the end and build bunkers, to know what it is by experience, maybe they are right, personally I think not, because when you start to build bunkers you are already creating a negative event, you are already creating a situation in where you are going to live in a bunker, you are building up to that moment, you are focussing on it, thats a NEGATIVE thing... unless you love bunkers and having the world go down, rather focus on a big wine celler full of bordeaux and having world peace :-)

Greetz,

P

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Enlighten me objectively
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:04 pm

Tree,

Thanks for your replies...

Im really interested in that book that has the interview with Balding saying he never visited the far east. Do you remember the title or the writer??
Also, if they should try monitoring me, that would only prove they are a cult. Dont you think? :-)

That would be great!

Joe,

I would have sended you that last reply by PM, but the administrator disabled that option...
Also, Ive read your essay, did skip some parts because it was very long and I didnt had the time, but wow, very well written, you made some really good points in there...

Greetz,

P

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:17 pm

Also, if they should try monitoring me, that would only prove they are a cult. Dont you think?
the only thing is EMO, you will not know they are doing such.
Having been former staff member, I have a few insights.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:31 pm

Tree wrote:
Also, if they should try monitoring me, that would only prove they are a cult. Dont you think?
the only thing is EMO, you will not know they are doing such.
Having been former staff member, I have a few insights.
Tell me more...

Did you remember that book yet?

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:51 pm

EMO:

I want to point out here that RSE's recent marketing is targeting overseas (Europe and South America).
And, if you saw a few posts by some very recent members of RSE who are from Europe,
they were not even aware of things such as bunkers.

It has been my experience that Europeans get a different flavor of RSE, if you will.
As an RSE student gravitates towards Yelm, the connotation of the "Days To Come" become
more important and prevelant.
I think it was just over a year ago in Spain or where ever that Rambles did a Q and A regarding
"safe places". The Europeans were in a panic. Check out Greg Simmons' monthly newsletter's Q and A
section during the last half of last year. Europeans have bought into the doom and gloom with a shock.

Well, if they would only contact the moderators of EMF, the moderators know of several houses/land?UG's
for sale (by former RSE members) who would only be too happy to sell to the struggling, panicking, Europeans.
As, of course, Yelm is truly thee "safest place". Just ask another "expert student, Ed Wiltsie. :roll:

EMO, I have not said everything I learned at RSE was a waste of time.
I did, however, waste 19 years trodding in a circle, much like the one in the tank in Yelm.
I went in a complete circle for 19 years, not going anywhere.

While IN the group, I truly thought I was on an enlightened path.
I honestly did. And anyone who left RSE was truly out of their mind.
They had doubt and were not devout enough. They were stupid and did not realize the full impact
that we were dining with a God incarnate.
That was my opinion at the time.

But I have seen too many people kill themselves, too many refuse western medicine because they were taught at RSE
that they could totally heal their bodies with blue body healing if they TRUY believed.
I have seen too many early 20's young adults abuse alcohol all because they were brought up in a group to drink
wine like freaking maniacs. oh, And Tequila, because JZ sais she hates the taste of wine and only drinks Tequla.
pfffttt.
I have seen too many people become full blown alcoholics BECAUSE of RSE.
You should see the road side recycle bins in Yelm of all the Ramsters houses.

Now all of the people who had life savings also pulled them out for fear of the market crashing.
They put alot of money towards food storage, gold pieces, and their underground bunkers.
Not to mention the ones who keep the gold, guns and cash at their houses who get all of that stolen
while they are at events because the locals all know 1) they store gold, food and guns 2) they know
when their Ramster neighbors are at events. Easy targets.

There are many people, who are like California Dreamin' was up until a year ago.
They loved RSE for so many years and are currently inactive.
Yet they still listen to tapes, CD's, believe Ramtha is real.
Then, one day, for some weird reason, they run into a former student,
happen upon this site, or SOMETHING bizarre that starts them on the path to realize
things are not all that rosy in Yelm or RSE.

I do know maybe a handful of people who tried RSE out, maybe went for a year, it wasn't for them, and left.
no Harm done.
But that is a very few people. I personally believe they retained their critical thinking skills and just left.
The rest either stay in RSE
or they gravitate to other groups, like Nexium, The Secret (Abraham channeling), The Landmark Forum,
or A Course in Miracles. These people think they have broken the bonds of RSE when in reality,
they have really transferred it to another group without fulling dissecting the befores and afteraffects
of such a group.

There are a few people who have taken, what I think is the most direct but most painful road out.
And that is the road of coercive persuasive group recovery. And THAT path is no picnic.

You can ask David, one of the moderators here.
He was in a group in England for many years saving his guru's hair and the like
:roll: :wink: before he enrolled in RSE. He was a very sincere and devout student
having left his family and children half the world away to gain enlightenment and ascension.
because, as you know, it is "an alone journey". (pfft)

How can you measure the pain that has been inflicted on his family and himself
because he made the choice under NLP to move several thousand miles away because
Yelm was the safest place to be and he could be closer to his beloved school??
(the poster blueheeler did this as well.)

How can you measure what was lost for all those years and money
and then blithely turn the other cheek, so to speak, and touts some Rmatha-ism with the
blame-the-victim mentality that "it was all their own choice. They create their reality." ?

They made the choice under brainwashing and NLP and cults techniques.
Just like Jim Jones' people did.
Just like Scientologists do.
Just like Church of Latter Day Saints do.
Just like tight knit Mormoms do.
Just like Church Universal and Triumphant people do in Montana.
Just like Mafu people do.

Just like xtc, I think RSE kills a fair amount of brain cells.
Why would one want to voluntarily do that up front? knowing the group is a cult?

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:56 pm

Joe-

I forgot the name of that book.
I think it was on page 43. White cover.
Can you tell EMO the name plz?
ty

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:04 pm

Tell me more...

I will give you an example.

Several years ago the famous rock star Melissa Etheridge had signed up for an event much like you did.
The people on staff knew this and were very much looking forward to it.
At the time, Melissa had just discovered she had breast cancer.
the person labeled by rambles as "master of music" quipped to me at the time:
"God, I really hope she comes here to really see how she has really created her own
breast cancer by the music she writes and sings. After the event, she will really
be creating a new life with the new music and understanding of how music affects people."
And just as ramtha paid homage to sweet little Salma H, the movie star,
the same would have been done for Melissa Etheridge.

Thank god Melissa never made it.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:27 pm

Tree wrote:Just like xtc, I think RSE kills a fair amount of brain cells.
Why would one want to voluntarily do that up front? knowing the group is a cult?
Yeah, it did kill lots of it :D
Good thing that they grow back in time!

And yeah you're right, I didnt know it was a cult when I registered for that event, I saw it as an interesting workshop, but doing that voluntarily is veryverywrongindeed. Thank you EMF for the crazy bunker madness stories, I just know the person who started this forum will benifit from his deed! Mark my words!

Spirituallity has become big dollar/euro industry. But mark my words, they will have whats coming to them!

Just the other day I was informing myself with T.A.L.A.M., a 2 day workshop that claims to reveal the secret of manifesting, it costs about 1.250 euro, or 1.575 dollar in your money. I said, how about you learn me that technique and at the end of the workshop I'll manifest you 1.250 euro's, how about it?

I'm still going to find out, because I cant just waste the money I've spend, and I will report after...

Still hoping you can give me the title or writer of that book, really interests me ;-)

Thanks for the enlightenment,

Pete

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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:34 pm

Hi Pete,

A quick comment... RSE likes to tout that they are not a cult. JZ went through a very public divorce in Washington state. What RSE staff will say is this..."The Washington State Supreme Court determined we are not a cult."

I hung my faith on that statement when I first got involved in RSE. Be aware that the assessment was made mostly on the fact that devotees/students don't live full-time on the campus and most hold down real day jobs.

But there are other threads here on EMF that discuss how to tell if a group is cult-like. RSE definitely meets those criteria.

As far as attending the events you've already signed up for and committed the money for... you seem to be a confident, bright guy and able to monitor what's going on around you with the info you've gained here. You will hear some fantastic stories from staff and advanced students - I would advise you to just keep an eye on whether you're getting caught up in the moment. The programs are designed to give you an emotional high and the feeling of "insider, never seen before" information and then they say "trust your knowingness." Well heck, when you feel great, special, etc. of course your inner knowingness is going to be "this is the truth, baby."

All gets back to your handle on the forum...enlighten me objectively.

Here's are some good questions to ask about the fantastic stories you'll hear... "when did you manifest that?" and "what have you done recently?" Greg Simmons still tells one unsubstantiated story of how he changed the past but the story is at least 5 years old and he's done nothing similar since then. Also think carefully about what real benefit was in their story. Finding 5 cards on a field means what exactly if they still live in a shack? If people can see through cards why aren't they funding RSE scholarships with their gambling winnings and making the school free?

Also, there is only one discipline that has produced some people who can demonstrate them consistently - the Henry Sugar cards. And the exact procedure isn't copyrighted by JZ because it comes from the Roald Dahl story in a $10 book about Henry Sugar.

It will be great to hear about your experience and observations from your events!

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Unread post by aussiegirl » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:26 am

the book you are referring to is "Baird T Spaulding As I Knew Him" by David Bruton

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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:55 am

Pete, I just re-read the thread here.

In order to keep your wits about you at the event, I highly encourage you to watch the videos Tree recommended
Derren Brown on YouTube to see some amazing examples of what can be accomplished with NLP
And the movie The Wave on Google Video.

And keep Tree's alert in mind...that you will be easily identifiable by your name and home country at your beginning retreat. So it's likely that you will be spoken to by Ramtha himself. "Love I you greatly, master! I'm so glad you made the journey here." kiss kiss big hug. And then admonished to not let anyone take away the truth you found during your week at the retreat.

All you are is fresh meat to them. I'm sorry that's such a harsh statement.

It could be a very interesting event for you to sit back and watch the game JZ/Ramtha/RSE staff have going on and watching your own response.

You also asked if there was some valuable info to be gained from RSE...well, yeah, because JZ reads constantly and copies everyone else's stuff. But it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:25 am

(I'm just getting caught up on posts)

Hi EMO,


Welcome to EMF. I just finished reading through this thread and I can say "Ditto !" to everyone's comments back to you.

One thing that I will gently mention here, is something I noticed as I read through the thread. When *you* say that you are going no matter what, because you already spent the money, it made me think, "Yikes!!!"

Why ?

Because one trap that exists in RSE, for students who get sucked into the "school", is the reasons/excuses that become increasingly prevalent to justify "choices".
Yes, you did spend the money already, toward attending the event. Does that mean it's in *your best interest* to attend ? My reply to you would be a resounding "No!"

As has been mentioned earlier in another post, some of the things we can say to you might seem a bit cold or harsh. It's not that WE are that way. We care enough to come here and attempt to offer an insider's viewpoint to RSE; we've been there. So, with that in mind, I am going to offer some words of wisdom, though some of them may come across as hard. Here are some facts as I know them to be true:

1) The most important thing in RSE is that YOU are paying JZ Knight. If you EVER fail to do that, you are worthless and unwelcome at the event, as a student. So much for Ramtha "loving his people." Your value is directly correlated to your ability to pay admission. Try that of for size after being in the school for many years. It hurts worse. It has happened to many, many, many people.

2) The average length of stay for people in a "cult" is 2 - 3 years. I apologize for not having the source of that citation at my fingertips, but it IS available. That's how long it takes the majority of people to realize they are spinning their wheels. MOST people who join RSE, do NOT remain past 2 - 3 years. It's the minority of them that remain. Even at that, JZ Knight deals with the attrition rate by having "Ramtha" invite the newest people to join the "elite" group, Blue College. That group is competitively held a carrot's dangle away from most students. We have even been told the group is closed and our chance has been forever missed. Then, when enough Blue College people have left RSE, always, always, JZ/Rambles will predictably, suddenly invite the remains to join B.C. The goal is a warm fanny in the seat and keep on moving them through the ranks. Do not be fooled. Those in B.C. are not special.

3) As it is with most cultish groups, the first time, or the first few times you attend, they're not so foolish as to hit you with too much of the deeper "initiations" (such as the doom and gloom, and cut off the rest of the people in your life cuz this is an alone journey and they are swine who won't understand you and who will hold you back from evolving, etc). Oh, no. The stories of the aliens, Ramtha watching you 24/7, needing to prove you are a dedicated, sincere student. How? You are to allow nothing "tainted" into your brain...into your thoughts. You need to reconsider the outside influences upon your brain!!!! Protect it ! Don't watch TV, don't listen to the radio, don't talk to anyone (especially folks on EMF!!!!) who are "negative", who are "victims", who will stop you from "evolving" due to their toxicity (doubt, critical thinking). You must do this ALONE.

4) Ramtha is THE BOSS, Emo. Never forget that you will totally and fully be compliant and obedient to Ramtha and/or JZ Knight or you will be kicked out of RSE. Some of us on this forum have witnessed PHYSICAL ASSAULTS UPON STUDENTS, EVEN IN FRONT OF CHILDREN, SEXUALLY EXPLICIT TALK, in audience, in front of CHILDREN of ALL ages, mind you. Sexual, swearing language for hours and hours and hours on end. People have been threatened. I was threatened when I refused to COMPLY with an demand, by "Ramtha" in audience. I stood still, refused to comply with something I disagreed with, and I my safety (if not my life) was threatened. It was witnessed by 1,000 people. THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE PLANNING TO ATTEND, EMO. Rethink it.

5) My opinion is that you should cut your losses NOW and do not go to that place. Be thankful that all you "lost" is some plane fare ! What if you lost your MIND ? I agree with Joe. You do not HAVE TO go there to "experience" it for yourself. Do you need to taste a dill pickle to know that ice cream is sweet ? Of course not. Do you need to taste a crappy wine to know that a fine brand is just that - a fine wine ? No.

6) You do not need to go to RSE to obtain eastern religious information. If that is a path you choose to search, you can do it many other ways, for FREE. The writings are voluminous.

7) Despite what RSE students would say about us EMF'ers; we are NOT victims, nor miserable people who couldn't cut it in RSE. Many of us WERE able to successfully do the disciplines. We did find our cards in the field, see through playing cards, etc., etc. But, guess what ? We were wise enough (in time) to realize that we falsely attributed our "successes" there, to the teachings. Human beings have a "sixth sense"...call it what you will. If it's important to you to hone those skills, you do not need RSE to do that for you. They will have you believe that THEY ONLY have THE answers. They do not. Most of us who have left RSE are now living fulfilling, happy, spiritual/intuitive/religious/atheistic lives; whatever we choose. Not BECAUSE of RSE; but in SPITE of it.

8) Ramtha has told students that "he" will heal them of ALL illnesses. The least that they have to do, is to ask for the healing in his name, and focus on his eyes. I cannot tell you how MANY, many students are now DEAD, though the did as they were commanded to do with all hope and sincerity for living and being healed. NOT getting dead. That's not even to get into the teaching of blue body healing. Again; people are dead. Conversely, there are "spontaneous healings" which occur to people all over the world, all of the time. They have not ever heard the name "Ramtha"...or...RSE. I mention this because at RSE, you will be told that students have healed themselves BECAUSE OF RSE. I disagree. They only attribute their healing to RSE. One could say, they've given their power away in that regard.

9) There are people in RSE who, as someone already posted on here, "take a bullet for Ramtha". Attending events, being part of the social scene, knowing at a competitive level who is doing what, is what many of the students are about. Now, that is not to bash the students. Some ARE seriously blinded fanatics. Some are caring people who are terribly misled. Those issues have even been addressed from the STAGE by "Ramtha" or JZ. It's not a secret. yet, they will all tell you that THEY are not the fanatics. They believe they are open-minded people, but they are not. Ramtha controls what they do and say and think. If it's rubberstamped with the seal of approval by Ramtha, they will include it in their brain/consciousness. If not, forget it. We on the outside, openly talk about how many people we have watched Ramtha/JZ abuse their authority, power and position, by taking people down to where current students will totally ostracize a person Ramtha/JZ has brought under attack. Much has been posted on EMF about this issue. It's ugly.

10) My opinion is that you are at serious risk of being brainwashed. You will not notice it is happening to you, EMO. These are orchestrated psychological techniques, designed to make you feel GOOD. Better than GOOD. In Scientology, they teach their members that anyone who doesn't support and/or agree with the Scientology worldview, is a "suppressive person". SP's. If EMF comes up, you will be told we are that. We're not. We're the brave ones who have dared to speak out about the truth behind the scenes, in the deeper, darker levels of RSE.

Please reconsider whether you really need to "experience" such a place. Some stones are just better left unturned.

Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:26 am

Well,

I'd be delighted, even honored, to have a word in private with Ramtha the enlightened one. I have my ways to tell if someone is telling the truth or not. My advice to them: keep up or go home. If he is an imposter, I WILL notice... Dont you even think about fooling me... I also suggest they have a splendid explination for those bunkers... think 3 steps ahead would be my advice... If he is real, I will listen to what he is teaching me. Im a pretty fair guy, and wont make any hassle out of it if he is he says he is.

And I did give up my identity in here, they can see me coming, and if they are reading this, I'm going because the books inspired me very well. And my intention is to learn, hope they see me as a student instead of meat :-)

Will do my preperation properly, like you suggested..

And I did some research about that Spalding guy. Indeed he was first in India in 1935, and the book was published in 1923. Like David Bruton stated. But there is a pretty damn interesting theory that it was someone else that made that journey, since he wasnt a scientist, didnt had the experience required to climb the Everest, and didnt even had a licence to carry a gun in other countries. The theory says he just used the report of someone else to write that book. The whole idea of keeping that secret was to protect the original source. The stupid thing is, its in dutch, and I guess you dont speak that language. Ill try to make a summary and translate it this week. If I can find the time...

Oh man, that whole trip to Washington really became more interesting by talking to you people... I'm excited like a little child :-)

Thanks for the reply,

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:40 am

Whatchamacallit wrote:One thing that I will gently mention here, is something I noticed as I read through the thread. When *you* say that you are going no matter what, because you already spent the money, it made me think, "Yikes!!!"
Agree on that, thats no excuse to go through with it, I could spend my week in Seattle, going to capital hill, the music museum, ... Have some fun with the people I meet, plenty of nice things to do. But I guess I shoud say that I really want to see for myself, I'm really eager to find out about that place.

1. There are things to learn over there, like stated by other members on the board
2. There is this kind of curiousness in me, that can only be satisfied by exploring the people and the place myself
3. Im well prepared by EMF, dont worry...

Greetz,

P

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Unread post by ex » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:08 am

please take your time and post again after the event.i am curious.good luck.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:52 am

EMO,

Okay, so you just go right ahead and attend the event, you silly if not stubborn, curious guy. (teasing & humor) I do agree with you that it will be an experience. I'll agree with "Ramtha" who has also said many times that once we have an experience, it's already in the brain chemically, so how many times do we need to relive it ? (Oh, don't challenge him/her with THAT contradiction, cuz they will want You to experience it many $$$$$ times $$$$) LOL

There are a significant number of people who go to one event, never to return. Who knows, you might be attending one of the few events where, at a Beginner Event, you witness some of the blatant abuses that we've addressed on here.

Off the top of my head, I think it was the summer of 2006, at a Beginner's event, that Rambles was pathetically drunk, sobbing while snorting boogers, and had slugged a father in the chest, in front of his wife and young son. I hope you are lucky enough to witness that sort of thing - which usually comes later on. Then, hearing how the current Followers will justify it all because after all, Ramtha knows what's best for you; YOU do NOT. (as they say)

I hope you're right and you're able to sustain your critical eye toward the experience.

We will all be waiting for you to return and let us know how it went. Tell ol' Ramtha someone at EMF said "Hello". ROFL

Beyond the RSE topic, I do hope you get to spend some time visiting Seattle ! Mount Rainier is a site to behold, too. We drove up there with our kids, in May. We could only go so far, because the huge snowplows were busy moving piles of snow off the roads up there. Walls of snow that were higher than housetops and treetops, at the top. We had a picnic at the bottom !

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:26 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:Okay, so you just go right ahead and attend the event, you silly if not stubborn, curious guy. (teasing & humor) I do agree with you that it will be an experience. I'll agree with "Ramtha" who has also said many times that once we have an experience, it's already in the brain chemically, so how many times do we need to relive it ? (Oh, don't challenge him/her with THAT contradiction, cuz they will want You to experience it many $$$$$ times $$$$)
Well, when you go through a door in a Hotel, and you tip the guy opening the door for you, do you drag him behind you with his leg and stuff his wallet with money every time you go through a door? :D

Ill say, oh, youre right, its already in the brain chemically, better ask to store enough wine and tequila in those bunkers :D

Hahaha 8)

Will be some proper fun! :D

Greetz,

P

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:04 pm

"3. Im well prepared by EMF, dont worry..."


Pete -

Although you're "well prepared," I have an additional caution for you: Before your event concludes, you will be ENTICED/LURED to either stay for the next event, or commit to a future event where the great secret (or something along that line) will be revealed. You will most likely be told that this is your last chance as the group is moving on to greater heights.

That's what I was told back in '88, and it hooked me good. You won't be released from the event without an enticement to remain or return. You might even be told that you a special one who "heard the calling." (I knew I was special - ha ha.)

CD

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:37 pm

California Dreamin' wrote:"3. Im well prepared by EMF, dont worry..."


Pete -

Although you're "well prepared," I have an additional caution for you: Before your event concludes, you will be ENTICED/LURED to either stay for the next event, or commit to a future event where the great secret (or something along that line) will be revealed. You will most likely be told that this is your last chance as the group is moving on to greater heights.

That's what I was told back in '88, and it hooked me good. You won't be released from the event without an enticement to remain or return. You might even be told that you a special one who "heard the calling." (I knew I was special - ha ha.)

CD
Hmmm *puts pointing finger on rounded lips* If they provide me with a comfy bunker, and provide me some RSE'ers to give me a foot-massage and have someone waving me fresh air with a palmtree-branch, maybe I will, maybe :lol:

Dont worry, I used to be a sales-promotor, that wont work... But thanks for the warning, EMF made me very clear that they seriously mean business :wink:

I have my life here in Belgium, the people I love, my dog, the girl I fancy, my projects, ... wont even think about giving that up for a underground bunker :lol: Id rather work in the salt mines in Syberia...

The big secret didnt have them creating heaven on earth either, apparently...

Nice you people care so much,

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:59 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:Beyond the RSE topic, I do hope you get to spend some time visiting Seattle ! Mount Rainier is a site to behold, too. We drove up there with our kids, in May. We could only go so far, because the huge snowplows were busy moving piles of snow off the roads up there. Walls of snow that were higher than housetops and treetops, at the top. We had a picnic at the bottom !
Yeah, looking forward to it! Got already some things on my agenda, is there a cheap place I could stay over there in somewhere downtown Seattle??

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Unread post by Tree » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:04 pm

Dear EMO-

I know several twenty something guys in the Seattle area who might be able to help you out.
Even better yet, they are fun loving, guys.
All of them children of RSE fanatical parents.
THEY will give you an earful!!

They are a very open minded bunch,
very allowing,
yet make fun of their parents
and ramtha wine toasts. It is quite hilarious.
So it's likely that you will be spoken to by Ramtha himself. "Love I you greatly, master! I'm so glad you made the journey here." kiss kiss big hug. And then admonished to not let anyone take away the truth you found during your week at the retreat.


this is exactly a very likely scenario.
Not to mention the fact that probably only 20 people in total will be in attendance in that huge hall.
So, it will be pretty chilly because they don't like justifying turning up the heat for so few people.

Of course then, an "evening event" will be called and Rambles will come down in all his glory
along with 400-500 other "advanced" students.
She HAS to do this for monetary reasons.
And then to make the evening worth the $50 for the advanced studetns- so quick! marketing dept!
think of something catchy to make this a big evening!!

Well, Pete, I am with whatcha here: cut your losses while you are still ahead.
But, your curiosity will get the better of you
and you wishing a one on one :lol: :lol:
you already have the reverence for Ramtha the Enlightened one (it is obvious by your posts)
so you will most likely be *&&^^ ing a brick in "his" presence.
She might even be too tired to channel from her birthday party. wth am I thinking??! :roll:

Seattle is a great place.
As is the San Juan Islands.
A 3 day trip around the Olympic Peninsula.
It will be to snowy for Mt Rainier.
You should have a very good time.

Better yet.
Usually, after one half of a day, the staff will present all these magnificant things about the school to you
and teach you one or two things.
Then, they normally offer your money back if you are not happy about what you have seen up to that moment.
That is the usual M.O., but I highly doubt that would be offered as the economic environment is
pretty bleak, and she needs to bleed money out from people however she can.

Have fun.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 am

Tree,

Are you from Seattle? How about we meet up next week and have some beers? I'm buying, Im sure I will enjoy having conversation with you.

One of the important things I learned in life is not to judge other people, even if Ramtha the enlightened one turns out to be a fraud, even then I wont be judging that. I will say things like, hey Tree, you seem to be a very straight guy, and usually im almost, not very far from, if not, completely correct, think other members would be the ones to confirm. But I will rarely judge on other people.
Let me explain you why, and you will understand why that is so important if I want to learn the truth (about Ramtha).

I'll try to use an example:

Thats in my opinion the basic principle of karma, its also 'what goes around comes around', and 'you reap what you saw'..., but karma is much more simple than that! Really much more simple, maybe others will disagree with me, but I think its worth thinking this over. This is something I have learned in Berlin:

So, lets say you are going for a walk and you go down from your apartment to the street. When you come out of the hallway, you meet a good looking girl with her hands full of shopping bags. She can barely walk, she has too much to carry. Now, if you ask her 'hey, do you need a hand with that' and your intention is to try and get her phone number, then THAT (the intention) will be picked up by her subconsciousness. her consciousness state may 'think' what a nice fellow, but her subconsciousness will pick that up. And it is likely she will say 'no Im ok', if that is your intention. It goes on, even if 5 minutes later you meet another girl, and you dont even speak with eachother, just by passing her by, SHE will pick THAT up too. Your intention will be picked up by her subconsciousness. Pretty watertight eh? :o So, in other words, if you have a free intention, if you are able to do that freely, give freely, without expecting anything, just being of service with her bags, not even expect to have a little conversation after, you are on the right path, you will get that back from her, or maybe the next girl, or a guy that helps you out with something you need help with, because eventually, peoples subconscioussness will react synchronicly with yours, they will give freely to you as well. Its almost magnetic. Thats how simple it is: what you give is what you get :P

Now, if Iwould like straight answers from Ramtha, I would want to have him defenceless, thats the moment I can tell if he is real or not, and when I already judged about him, saying to myself he is most likely to be an imposter, then I wont be getting straight answers. He will 'know' that, pick that up. I need to be without judgement if I want him in an honest/open state of being. Therefor I can only accept what he tells me for now, that he is an ascended being, and be honest and open MYSELF, without even having the intention of finding out if he's real (thats difficult because of my curiousity) Because eventually, his/her subconsciousness will react upon my subconscious behaviour, and he will give/wont give himself away in the end, that can be something stupid like body language, or making an unwanted/unexpected contradiction, or having a 3rd person enter the room saying the opposite he just said, yeah, other ppl pick it up as well... If somebody is fair and square, thats easy to tell, everybody can see that. it just takes proper attitude, time and asking the right questions, and Ive got 5 days of that plus a whole list, shoud be enough ;-) If you already judged and believe he is a God incarnated, you will never find out. He will 'know' and be more confident about it. Let him prove himself to be what he is, I dont need to do anything special. And you will be the first to know if Ive found out about something, whatever it will be... :wink: Im free, everyting cool over here :-)

You see now that it is important that Im not afraid about having RSE sucking money out of me? Or try to convert me into Ramster.. Or they will do exactly that.. Thats why I'm laughing all the time here on the board, and try being positive. Ramtha or not Ramtha, not important for now, love his teachings and his books, I WILL see when I'm in Yelm...

Hope I've enlightened you with my point of view, like you've enlightened me so well with yours here on the board...

Im in WA from 10-17th of March, Ive you 'd like to meet up and have some beers, or some water to grow into a bigger, happier Tree, id be delighted! :-) I will try to enable my email, feel free to send me one...

Greetz,

P

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baird t spaulding

Unread post by joe sz » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:17 am

"However, David Bruton, Spaulding's closest friend and biographer revealed in "Baird T. Spaulding As I Knew Him" (DeVorss, 1956) that Spaulding's books were essentially fiction"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naacal

I first realized that the entire "Masters of the Far East" series was fiction before I was aware of the above. [btw, if his closest friend says it was fiction that is good enough for me].

When I was with Liz Prophet's cult Summit Lighthouse [CUT] around 1979, the Spaulding books were always for sale at conferences. The foundation myth of CUT regarded them as authentic indications of the existence of Ascended Masters. The reason was that CUT was an offshoot primarily of the old I AM ACtivity founded by Guy and Edna Ballard in the early 1930s. The Ballards knew Spaulding years before--if fact, according to 'Psychic Dictatorship in America' by Gerald Bryan (1940) Spaulding's stories were one source for Ballards 'Unveiled Mysteries' (1934) wherein Ballard as Godfre Ray King meets Master St Germain at Mt Shasta. Ballard also wrote his books claiming the experiences were "true" yet they were total fiction. At one time there were 50,000 I AMers in 1939 who believed the Ballard books were 'true.' I did too in the late 1970s. Ballard plagiarized from several sources including Garver's (1894?) Brother of the Third Degree [also occult fiction].

This is from my "ramtha" paper:
Guy was acquainted with Baird T. Spalding[sp], the author of The Teachings of the Masters of the Far East, and shared some of his spiritual notions about the Masters. Spalding?s five volumes have been popular with many of Ramtha's followers. The books are based on Spalding's alleged Far Eastern travels and mystical experiences. There is one problem; Spalding wrote the first three travelogues before he ever left the American continent. He told Paul Brunton that he made these first visits in the ?astral body? (Brunton 252).

P Brunton, himself another occultist-poseur, has been exposed by many former disciples (My Father's Guru by Jeffrey Masson 1993). (P Brunton---October 21, 1898 - July 27, 1981) was born Raphael Hurst)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brunton

The astute reader without a burning desire for occult knowledge and without a penchant for a Gnostic identity, immediately recognizes Spalding's books as fiction. The publisher right at the start of the first book tells the reader that there are "no records" maps or living witnesses from Spalding's alleged trip to the far east/Himalaya. If that is not enough to convince the naive seeker, then the content should---if it quacks like fantasy then it is mosty likely all made up.

At best these kinds of novels, written as if true, are what Plato called "pious frauds" or noble lies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie

Another example from the 19th century was Zanoni by Sir Edward Bulwer Lytton (1842) which was written a Rosicrusian teaching tool about those "mysteries." Lytton says at the beginning that all he did was publish a mysterious manuscript left on his desk by a strange writer that says it was a true experience. :roll:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanoni

I could go on and on as there are dozens of authors like Spaulding that I have read who wrote in this fictive/metaphysical adventure genre. They still fool some of the people all of the time.


Joe

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:14 pm

Greetings Master,

(just kidding)

Hi everybody!

I started to translate that document I found with scientific evidence about the content of 'masters of the far east' Apparently, the book is full of scientific facts that were only to be discovered about 3 to 60 years after it was published in 1925...

MY ENGLISH ISNT THAT WELL, SO SORRY ABOUT THE MISTAKES I MAY HAVE MADE IN GRAMMAR AND CONTEXT, I HOPE YOU WILL FIND THIS INTERESTING, ILL ALSO COPY A LINK TO THAT PAGE IN HERE, UNFORTUNATLY ITS IN DUTCH

http://www.promootio.nl/floor/MEESTER1.TXT

The first part was easy to translate, but the second part is a quoting of the book, followed by a number of things that were only to be discovered later as scientificly correct. Hope I can find the time and courage (with all those medical terms) before I go to WA...

Here it is:

[color=#]In 1925 appeared the most remarkable book about the, since long known, masters in India: in the west only known as a bunch of naked asceets, that would do things like trow a rope up in the sky, let a boy climb that rope, cut the whole thing up with a sword. Where after a fountain of blood and body parts would come down. Quickly a blanket over that, ?Abracadabra? and behold, the boy stood up and shook the blanket of himself.
Finally inmortality was within everybodies grasp. They tought. Now there was also a rich American that used the newly invented camera to film this terrifying scene. Alas: the only thing they could see on the film was a lot of blue sky, a waving asceet, and a totally astouned audience. No boy, no rope, not even a blanket. Yet they were all very sure.

Nevertheless, the book was a huge succes, in spite of the fact that Theosofics and Rosekreuzers didnt embrace it in their library. Also the concerning publisher of scandal books: DeVorss was boycotted. Untill TODAY, this book from 1925 is still available in EVERY book shop. Only in little towns you have to order it with a 3 day delivery time.

The name of that book:

*The masters of the far east, their life and their learnings, 5 parts, Braid T Spalding*

Indeed a strange and intriguing title for a book that first appeared in 1925 and untill present still sells excellent. Especially when you notice that more or less 11 American scientists discribe their meeting wit Jesus himself: from face to face they talked with him in India and he even became their teacher.

Well, this is something that the fans of the Davinci code could learn from. Because whoever has read this book has definatly turned around and believes the content of this book littiraly. And that counts for Dominees, Reverends, Pastors, yes everyone who has read this book: ?this book is the TRUTH among all religions?
In the book an ?I?figure claims that he residented for 4 years from 1894 with the masters, including Jesus. One could suggest that the Davinci code is a roman where all forms of church-history-ledgends are wrapped together, the book ?the masters of the far east? from 1925 reads as a roman, yet was intended as a studybook.

But... It is a fact that writer Baird T Spalding visited India for the first time in 1935, and also for the last time. Spalding himself lived from 1872-1963 and was 22 years old in 1894: too young for a fully equiped mountain climbing expidition that, moreover, was in the possesion of firearms and the prescribed climbing experience of 5 years needed to climb the Everest. Also having the expedition experience in where he had seen the sunset in alsmost all of the other worldcountries.
Something seems to be wrong. Mount Everest requires older climbers than 22 year old. Also the author David Bruton, writer of ?Braid T Spalding as I knew him? catches the scandalstorypublisher DeVorss on some inaccuracies. Yet it was that office where both authors had spoken eachother.

A whole lifetime long Spalding held people in its grasp, by giving a vivid description of this expedition... that he could never have made himself. From Publisher Devross he received a monthly sum of 500$ for that, of which he dindt save anything. Both were married. An out of control joke or deception? No and yes, the solution to this riddle is described very emphaticly in the front of the book:

?Our company was made of 11 practical, scientific underbuild men, the larger part of our lives we dedicated to scientific science. We were used to only believe that, that was to be fully poven as truth, and never took something for granted. We all went as complete sceptici and returned totally convinced and converted. To that ammount that 3 of our group returned with the conclusion to remain there untill they are capable to do the same works and live the lives that these masters lived untill present.?
(End of quote in chapter one)

Well, you dont need to consult the Davinci code to draw conclusions. Is this sience-fiction littirature for who writer Braid T ? who didnt had any scientific title at all ? got an title of honor for? This is really clear as the blue sky: clearly here is someone speaking that handed over the manuscript to a younger person on condition to protect the original source. Thats common under writers, so with a pseudonym. Pseudonyms under writers are so common that a quart of all writers hide themselves behind a different name. On average writers use about SIX different writer names. But that could not be in here: that would affect credibilaty.

Maybe this explains why writher Braid T Spalding travelled for the FIRST time to india in an attempt to recover the, by the Indian ambassy stated missed, father that disappeared in 1923 during a journey in Calcutta with a tourist visum. Actually seems logical that a scientist who saw the end of his life approaching, and on his knowledge, decided to return to his aquintances in India. With as logical concequence that the son Braid T would recieve the heritidge and on his request would be converted to a monthy fee of 500$, that indeed was payed by publisher DeVross for the rest of his life. Braid used it all up. Strange when you come to think that if the inflation factor has reached about 20 by now, that he had to digest about 10000$ each month.
Furthermore, the 22-year old Braid didnt had any mountain-climbing licence, as well as the for the for foreign countries needed fire-arm licence, but his father CD Spalding had all of those, even as some scientific titles.
As noticed, the 22-year old Spalding wasnt promoted yet to a title of honor, that happened in 1938, a title as sience-fictionauthor! Son Braid T lived to an age of 91 (1966 by family Spalding) Furthermore DeVross had to deal with a conscious-conflict due to the fortune it gathered with this huge succes. (stated by David Bruton)
That went a little bit different than the author/plagiarist? Of the Davinci code: Dan Brown claims to have no remorse at all ? rather be satisfied with his suspectations; also Vandenberg claims something in the l
ikes of this.[/color]

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Unread post by joe sz » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:09 am

Thanks for the translation EMO.

"full of scientific facts that were only to be discovered about 3 to 60 years after it was published in 1925... "

From wikipedia: "Spalding discussed quantum physics years before mainstream science picked up on it. He was reported to have had contact with Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla and Charles Proteus Steinmetz and is said to have taught Tesla and Thomas Edison about the vibrational nature of the universe. Spalding himself was a well-respected geophysicist and mining engineer."

Guy Ballard of the I AM cult was also a mining engineer. He and Spaulding shared a place together for a time.

Attributing scientific "facts" to Masters of the Far East is like saying that Genesis 1 in the Bible predicted evolutionary theory:

"God called the dry land "the earth," and the basin of the water he called "the sea." God saw how good it was.
11
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it." And so it happened:
12
the earth brought forth every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw how good it was.
13
Evening came, and morning followed--the third day.
14
Then God said: "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the fixed times, the days and the years,
15
and serve as luminaries in the dome of the sky, to shed light upon the earth." And so it happened:
16
God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night; and he made the stars.
17
God set them in the dome of the sky, to shed light upon the earth,
18
to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw how good it was.
19
Evening came, and morning followed--the fourth day.
20
Then God said, "Let the water teem with an abundance of living creatures, and on the earth let birds fly beneath the dome of the sky." And so it happened:
21
God created the great sea monsters and all kinds of swimming creatures with which the water teems, and all kinds of winged birds. God saw how good it was,
22
and God blessed them, saying, "Be fertile, multiply, and fill the water of the seas; and let the birds multiply on the earth."
23
Evening came, and morning followed--the fifth day.
24
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds." And so it happened:
25
God made all kinds of wild animals, all kinds of cattle, and all kinds of creeping things of the earth. God saw how good it was.
26
4 Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground."

Makes sense, does it? First plants, then fishes, animals and finally man.
This is called equivocation in argument.

Similar to does not mean same as.

In "From the Earth to the Moon" Jules Verne wrote about going to the moon in a projectile in 1865. Does that mean he knew what space travel really was about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Earth_to_the_Moon

Nowhere I know of do Einstein, Tesla or Edison mention Spalding. Come to think of it, those guys never mentioned me or David McCarthy either :(

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:30 am

joe sz wrote:From wikipedia: "Spalding discussed quantum physics years before mainstream science picked up on it. He was reported to have had contact with Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla and Charles Proteus Steinmetz and is said to have taught Tesla and Thomas Edison about the vibrational nature of the universe. Spalding himself was a well-respected geophysicist and mining engineer."
I see your point, and I would believe that if the points he made in that document werent so... cant find the word for it...

How about the (preview of the big secret to come in that document, hehe, I would make a great Ramster) following:

The writer of the document, talks about the speaker that describes in his book that the 500 year old master can renew his bodycells like a child of 10, easily, and bladibladibla... he then makes a -difficult to translate- scientific point about telomare, an enzym that shortens the endloops of a dna-cycle every time after the devisionproces. Apparently they tested that enzym on a worm (life-expectation: 14 days) That worm became immortal. You could look that up on the internet if you want. That was only discovered in 1998. See for yourself in that document when Ive got it translated: interesting!

So in short, what we have is a fiction writer describing a biological proces, that was first discovered in 1998, he makes about 7 points, linked with scientific proof discovered after that story was written. he handles about only a few pages, then he states he could go on with that, but goes on with giving cults a hard time with more scientific proof, inaccuracies etc... Of all the fiction books and cults in that document, this book is the only thing he states to be "non fiction" because everyhing adds up to the future.

I'll do my best to translate this document as accurate as I can, I find it really interesting, also, whats really neat, is that in one of those points, he takes a little remark, a detail out of a sentence, that also proves to be correct only after the book was written. Thats really disturbing, how could he do that with 5 volumes of so called fiction? Ill work on it this week, hope I can finish that before WA.

What I'm asking myself is: how come that this chapter he has dissected, is full of biological and scientific correct information, that wasnt discovered at the time it was published, even if he knew Albert Einstein, Einstein died in 1955, he couldnt have helped him with that... Even he didnt know the function of the enzym Telomare (btw, thats the name in dutch)

Maybe an idea for a new best seller to come?

Im not saying that this is the truth, Im a musician, not a professor, but its worth concidering what he has to tell, and do some research, very interesting if some among the members here have some sientific background, and pay credit to the name: become enlightened for free, catch up with you later...

Greetz,

P

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:56 am

Almost forgot,

The writer of that document is: F Floor Bunnik, a dutch guy, didnt find much info on him on the internet though..

But he claims to have written 4 books in the end of that document. The document im translating would be from his 5th book, he died in 2006...

1e boek verscheen in 1983 getiteld: 'de Woodpeckersound'.
2e boek in 1994 getiteld: 'De ziekte van Crohn, een verdorven planeet'
3e boek in 1996 getiteld: 'De kankermasten van Odijk'
4e boek in 2000 getiteld: 'GSMfaq en gezondheid'
Dit hier is het 1e deel van mijn 5e boek: 'Aan de voeten van de meester'

'The woodpeckersound'
'The disease of Crohn, a corrupt planet'
'the cancerpoles of Odijk'
'Cell phone FAQ and health'
Part 1 of his 5th book: 'at the feet of a master'


Just in case someone would find out if he did publish that last book and had it published in english because of huge succes so it would save me the translating... ah.. wishfull thinking :lol:

Greetz,

P

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wormy mortality

Unread post by joe sz » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:59 am

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/health/livi ... ience.html

"But what if biologists could change life span by manipulating genes? The first breakthrough came in 1988 when Thomas Johnson of the University of Colorado extended the life of a tiny roundworm called Caenorhabditis elegans by 60 percent. Five years later Kenyon found several ways to double the life of C. elegans by speeding up or slowing down certain genes. Soon other scientists were achieving similar results by manipulating genes in yeast, fruit flies, and lab mice."

bottom line--the worm still died. So did Spalding. and so will JZ. and so will you no matter how many events you attend.

So much for secrets of the universe revealed from masters of the Far East.

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telomerase

Unread post by joe sz » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:10 am

"A new experiment suggests that the enzyme telomerase can extend the lifespan of mice by about 26 percent.

Some cells can keep dividing forever, essentially becoming immortal thanks in part to telomerase. But evidence for whether this enzyme affects aging and longevity in larger organisms such as people has been muddled and contradictory."

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic ... _longevity

Confucius maybe say: If you are not scientist, stay out of lab. :)

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Unread post by Tree » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:54 am

Confucius say: If you are not scientist, stay out of lab.


Bwahahhaha! :lol:

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Unread post by Kaworu » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:03 pm

Material on life extension/immortality:

BBC Horizon - Life And Death In The 21st Century - Living Forever
Exploring Life Extension
Living Forever: The Longevity Revolution
Do You Want To Live Forever?
Immortality Institute

RSE mainly claims that if you think yourself young, you will remain young, but this is only half the battle. They use this to promote a variety of items that are said to contain the secret to regeneration, like the infamous "twinkie-teaching" while in truth, Twinkies are everything but healthy for the body and the other items are just more money drainers.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:12 pm

They will eventually... question is how long will that take...

http://www.viewzone.com/aging.html

The thing is, if we find out the secret of immortality, is there any need for God then, and religion, there is no need for that anymore if they find that out...

Also Ramtha wont be of any further assistance then, maybe thats the reason why they are doing big business right now... and after they found out, they are very comfy with all those bunkers full of food... "Create your future! Become a remarkable life!! Join RSE and make sure you wont suffer the end of days...." Its all becoming very clear to me.. :-)

Oh, and Joe, dont be so sure about me eventually dieing... :D

For all you know they could figure that out within the next decade, and then I will have that eternal debate with you here on the forum about how Conficius said that you should stay out of lab if you are not scientist :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, enjoy having you here, in our way of thinking, we seem to have found the opposite in eachother, thats what makes it interessting, cheers to that! :wink: And I would definatly have you as my exit-counsellor of I ever get Ramstered...

Worked late today, hope I can do some further translating tomorrow...

Greetz,

P

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:35 am

On longevity...

http://www.lef.org

With the research on longevity, immortality, and incredible gains in science through nanotechnology, I wouldn't rule out extreme life extension. But if....or when...it arrives, it will be thanks to science, not JZ-Rambles "prophecies". It's not a secret if you research it.

What's in the scienctific and medical pipeline is nothing short of mind boggling...very cool stuff.

megan
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Unread post by megan » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:45 am

I have just joined and read through your adventure from the beginning with ferver. I realized you are due to return- yesterday ... sooooo , what did you decide? Experience? I am dying to know.

I do have a vested interest, my sister WAS involved and when I went to clean her house out I found creepy letters about things she wanted to manifest in her life under the bed in which she took her life. None of them said, " I want to die" She had left the cult but obviously was still so hypnotized ( documentation in this forum on that) that she still performed rituals. I don't believe I can fully blame her suicide on the cult but I know it didn't help matters. She had isolated herself from all friends and family and suffered much abuse after leaving. She was a member for ten years and began to question J.Z . She told me at one point she was brutally slapped in the face for questioning.

She too was very inquisitive about life and an amazing person. Before cult life she was hilarious and vivacious. Truly beautiful outside and in. She wanted to know "why" and "who" and "when" about everything and now I guess she knows. I saw a psychic / clairvoyant who told me things they could have never known about her and I . They said she " knew why we were here and you will know too when your time comes"

She also said she was "in the wrong place at the wrong time" - Thats all it takes. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time to get snared in.

Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:49 am

Megan,
How tragic for all involved.

Timing seems to have a great deal to do with getting involved with the school. At least that was my experience as well as that of those who I have spoken with who were/are students. We were/are looking for pleasure or release in the wrong place or perhaps it was/is at the wrong time.

The school teaches that the releif that is desired for any situation is to be foune in some fantasized future; but at the same time they teach that students should adopt that future now. If one was not delusional when entering the school, in time they will become so or perhaps loose their mental balance. Students are encouraged to live in a fantasy world of masters, invisible entities/orbs and to beleive in a rather unstable self declared god who takes possession of JZ body. Once so possessed the being demonstrates the last thing that I would invite into my mind. The conclusion must be made the, that it entered through manipulation, deception and mind control. There is not compassion or concern for individuals who can't do as instructed at this school.

The school also promotes a paranoid mentality on may levels and from many directions. The enlightened one does threaten to take people down and the legal adventures of JZ Knight are not a secret. Couple that to ostrasization if one seeks information or help outside of the school and one is completely cut off from trusting anything but what seems to be a delusional sociapath.

I sincerely hope that you do not perceive that your sister, you or anyone is here to be subject to that. That that is some how connected to the meaning of life. True there are many experiences in this life...and even in death, but being enslaved by a manipulator of any aspect of the human condition is not the purpose of this life. Being free of such things might be...

Thank you for sharing a difficult situation.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:14 pm

Hi EMF!

I returned safely yesterday, but suffered from jet lag, and had to sleep off the tiredness..

During the day I'm seeing my friends and tonight I'm writing a full report of the things I've witnessed over there... will write it proporly instead of doing this now, so tonight it will be my turn to enlighten EMF, you'll enjoy reading it...

@ the 2 members above: Yes, for the mentally instable ones this could be a death trap!

@ David McCarthy: I planned that cup of tea with you together with Maria (a spanish girl) to exchange thoughts, but became ill after having a repulsive taco at Taco Time and had to trow up, after that I didnt had the time to see you anymore. I really looked forward to see the other side of the medal and talk with you, I'm sorry about that.. I also didnt see Maria anymore, who probably is staying now for the next event :-(

Untill tonight...

Pete

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Unread post by Tree » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:27 pm

EMO-
I had written you a PM about meeting some former young people in the area. I guess it never got through
to you and am eager for your report.

unbound-
The school also promotes a paranoid mentality
I believe this to be very much the case (as is with all Doomsday cults)
but ALSO,
paranoia is a SEVERE by product of such groups because they do promote isolating oneself
from former friends and family.
Timing seems to have a great deal to do with getting involved with the school.
Ever see how quick the Scientologists are to set up helpful tents to places like Virginia Tech
after a bizarre shooting?
That is because they know, people are easier to hook after life altering events happen in a person's life.
Lost a job, got a divorce, someone died, graduated from college and are lost, etc etc


megan-
wow...Welcome, in a very sad way for you.
At some appropriate time, I would love to hear more about your sister's journey through life and RSE.

I also believe that suicide among cult members is far greater than the norm of society ( If I remember correctly,
I think 10%, but someone can post something more current).
I personally know of 6 suicides in RSE. Zero in my "other" regular life (life before and after RSE).
And that is not including those I might have bumped into at RSE.
I think belonging to a cult for over ten years had a HUGE effect.
I know for myself, I am thankful to have traversed that past year and ten months without taking my own life;
the path upon exiting the school is that dangerous (and ask anyone who knows me. I am not one to hyperbolize
anything).

I, for one, welcome all these new voices with such interesting facets to share.

I liked the old forum better, (easier for organized navigation) so if you find any difficulty in finding any links or past information,
just post, and someone will be glad to chime in.

Thanks everyone, for you insights.
I truly believe every one who was affected by RSE has something very useful and insightful for
everyone here. You never know what one line you might say might be the saving grace of a line for someone to
finally get out of RSE.

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The full Report on my beginning retreat at RSE

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:36 am

Hello Everyone,

Yeah... Here it goes... an objective report on RSE... before I begin, I'd love to thank all of the members and wish them hapiness in their lives after RSE... Life is what you make of it, it's up to you if you want to see the good or the bad in this school, for those who can't see any good in it, I guess you should concider the fact that many people, including me, had a lot of friendship and support here on the board, and that if you left that place, you should be getting a medal for bravery, you didnt follow the herd, and that you are never alone in that, I think you are the ones that can be proud... ;-)

So...

The first thing that pops into my mind: was Ramtha real or wasnt he? I actually never got the chance to talk to him personally, but I did see him having his speech and see him giving bleu college coaching in the Tank. What I can say about his authenticity is this: I'm for 90% sure that it actually is Ramtha inside JZ Knight. Or at least that it is an other entity inside her. If I got the chance to talk to him personally I would have fired my questions upon him. I never got that chance...

Well, you could prove me wrong or you could agree, I have a strong intuition and I can tell you this... that was not someone from this time, this place, nor was it someone that mastered the art of acting another personality over those 20 years... If you are wandering why I'm so sure, Ive made eyecontact with JZ, looked her straight into her eyes, that wasnt her... although I'm giving it only 90%, if I had the opportunity to talk, I could be giving more certainty...

That place, those people... it's a mix of very beautifull intentions and things, together with the most sad attitudes and outcomes... I have been talking with blue collage, with the staff, with the teachers, with translators, with my own group... The only one I didnt talk to was JZ herself, although she did watch us very closely...

Lets start with the teachers, they all strongly believe in RSE, and they are very open and eager to teach, that was beautifull, we had this guy named Chris, he reminded me at myself when I first had to teach a classroom about internet problems, he had the same insecurities, couldnt find the proper words to explain himself, but nevertheless, was a good teacher, and will become a great teacher because of his enthousiasm, and will to pass his knowledge... He knew how to motivate, how to test you in your weakness, yeah... Then we had Miche, a german guy, very intelligent, very confident, looks up to Ramtha in every way, and did a splendid job as well, and there was Mike, really liked Mike for being open-minded and being prepared to have conversation with his students. He had this very special state of attention, he really listened to his students, and knew what was going on all of the time, everywhere, he was a professional teacher, they may concider themselves lucky to have him there... I didnt agree with their way of playing open cards with my group, a lot of questions were 'to be answered later' and that made me really suspicious, everybody knows there is a reason for that, they kept certain things for themselves, as well did blue college students, thats something they didnt count on, most of my group fell for that, that they couldnt see the whole picture yet.. I was very satisfied with those teachers, and was happy to have them make such an effort to explain their teachings... cheers to that!

The staff, and so was everyone in my first visit to the States, was extremely friendly, they put a lot of effort in making you feel welcome, and at home, that was wonderfull. I had a very good feeling there, in terms of becoming part of their community, and that counts for outside RSE as well. Very nice people allround... I cant say anything about long term relations though...

Was it worth the money, yes it was worth it, although I did find it just a little too expensive... I had the knowledge and techniques I was hoping to get. And that was that, am I convinced to move to Yelm? Certainly not! I will find my way, together with my friends, and will not leave loved ones behind. They can make their decisions, I will make mine... They did try to convince me to go to blue college, yeah :-? Very cold to give up on your loved ones, very coooooooold. My answer was without any doubt: No thanks, my loved ones live in Europe, Ill find a way, or I will die together with them, if you dont mind... :roll: They pointed out that I could heal myself in blue college from my stomach perforation, I had due to severe drug addiction. Dont need bleu college for that, although I found it quite interesting...

The downside at RSE: they do not have a proper policy on pre-selecting their students, thats a complete disaster... They dont, or dont want to apply a decent checkup before admitting a student to the school. They should be asking questions on the mental condition, the medical condition, psychological and drug related state of affairs BEFORE they let anyone even set foot into that school! With the most disasterous concequences... That made me sick... I dont need to explain why... I dont want to judge on that, but do they see people as an opportunity to make money, or do they see people as themselves? Good question, not my job to contemplate on that, I know the answer... Lots of people are in a very instable state of mind, put all their hopes on RSE, and like Tree pointed out, cults do have the tendency to prey on those people... Thats what proves for me this is actually 'a Cult'. Their explination: No compassion (for Gods sake, what that all about?) Its an alone thing (You love yourself so much you cant see other people anymore?) Thats necessary to become enlightened (Yeah, Jesus his apostles will explain you in a book called bible)... Never give up on your dream (thats pretty selfish, besides, my dream is to love my neighbor as myself) For Pete's sake, you leave yourself behind if you bail out on your loved ones... They will learn that in the end of the day... Yeah 8) A grand teaching from Pete-the-I-told-you-but-you wouldnt-listen-one...
Most of the people at blue college were also pretty close minded. Didnt like the way they had an automatic Ramtha answer to everyting... A true master listenes to other people, even Ramtha should, how are they planning to become enlightened if they quote Ramtha automaticly, and the funny thing is, Ramtha actually warned them about that... still they dont see that they are exactly doing the opposite... So sure that they manifest their entire life themselves, which is true in many ways, but that made me wanna say: did you did that on purpose? Manifesting this crappy conversation? Am I to learn something? Or are you trying to bore me to death? Jeeeesh... The worst conversations, but this happened with only a few of them, all the other blue college students were all quite Ramtha quoting, but still reasonable enough to have a laugh with... Pheeew!

Did enjoy the disiplines very much, that gave me a lot of insight into reality and myself. I regret Maria who sold everything to see the States, I wanted to hook up with her and see David, but because I had to trow up the whole evening I missed that opportunity, and she went to stay at this caravan in Yelm, before she wanted to see Vancouver after the retreat. I regret that... by the way... the food was really not done! That taco made me puke my guts out! And the combination of food you eat over there??! Even in midievel times they burned you at the stake for that!! Shame on you!!! Peanut butter with Jelly? A diner that hasnt got a soup without any meat in it? You put cheese in your vegetables, and top it off with sour cream???? :shock: I was in SHOCK!!! I really was....
All the other things I experienced in the States were pretty nice though, I like Americans, they are not so much different from Europeans... Exept the food thing...

A few people are even completely brain-washed at RSE, lol... We had this guy in our group, who was doing this retreat a second time, and during a video teaching of Ramtha, he fell asleep and was snorring... But only me and my partner noticed... And then Ramtha said somewhere: "how many of you agree", he stopped snorring and put his hand up, immediatly after he fell asleep again... till certain point Ramtha made a toast... again, he stopped snorring, grabbed his bottle, and mumbled half sleeping "To life!", and fell asleep again, lol, we were crying out laughing... That was the most hilarious experience at RSE...

Would I recommend anyone this school, well yes, if I really know for sure they are mentally up for it. If not, this place is the last you should go to... About the long term outcome of attending this school, I cant say anyting...

Do I like Ramtha, actually I do, I like his brutal, sharp way of teaching, but then again, I dont like the no compassion thing, thats not mentioned in the books either, and makes me wander if he really is straight forward on loving humanity...

Its 03:15 AM now, I am off to bed, I could go on for some hours, but Im feeling tired, if I forgot sharing about some things, let me know, Ill continue tomorrow....

Anyway, I appreciate the conversations I had in here, and hope to read some reactions in the morning, nightynight...

Big wet Kisss to all you ex-ramsters;;;

Pete

California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:16 pm

Pete -

"I'm for 90% sure that it actually is Ramtha inside JZ Knight. Or at least that it is an other entity inside her."


Thanks for sharing your experiences at RSE. I need to re-read your post before making further comments, but I feel compelled to comment on the above:

If in fact Ramtha were real, I don't believe he would let JZ get away with tainting his legacy and continuing to damage his once good reputation. If Ramtha is real, his behavior and values seems to have been compromised greatly by social consciousness, and he is no longer the impeccable entity that lured me into the teachings. It would appear that JZ's antics have tainted the big guy as well.

Perhaps an "other entity" resides in JZ, or maybe it's merely her alter ego. :P

Marie
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Unread post by Marie » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:14 pm

I will write more later too, but just wante to echo for now what CD said, that I do not believe R is a separate being / entity / life force... Personally, I am skeptical in general that other entities w/o physical bodies actually take over or inhabit human bodies, and it is from reading this board and doing my own research on channneling, etc., after my mother and sister's immersion into rse that I have come to that opinion... All that aside, it is because I know what I do about JZ's own personal history that I think chances are much more likely it is some offshoot personality of JZ's own wounded psyche than it is she is actually channeling any "higher" being....

I don't want this thread to devolve into "is it or isn't it" but just also felt compelled to add my 2 cents on that. Thanks.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

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Robair
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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:49 pm

Hello E.M.O

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
I just have couple of things that I would like you to clarify for me if you don't mind
.
First you did not get the chance to talk to the big guy,if you would have had that opportunity
Did you have questions prepared? and if so can you share those questions with us.

Quote
BEFORE they let anyone even set foot into that school! With the most disastrous consequences... That made me sick... I don't need to explain why.

Sorry to be so ignorant and not be able to read between the lines, but could you explain that statement for me I really don't get it

Since you are not going to move to Yelm are you planning to prepare for TDTC or you do not really buy in to that ?

thank you again for sharing your experience with us.

oldone

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Enlighten me objectively
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Re: Hello everyone

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:58 pm

Hi Oldone,

Let me clarify that:
Oldone wrote:BEFORE they let anyone even set foot into that school! With the most disastrous consequences... That made me sick... I don't need to explain why.
A great deal of people are seeking for a solution for their life, that has become so complexed with trauma, addiction, negativity, abuse,....

They hear about RSE, and the promises it keeps, and they put all their hopes, money and everything else into that school...

That school isnt prepared to attend the mentally ill, and doesnt have the proper personel that is educated to accompany those who have suffered severe damage in their life. Instead they leave you out in the cold with philosophy, that YOU need to transform into your own experience. If you are not able to do that, you will be left on your own.

Therefor: If they like their students to have a chance in that school, they need to filter out the ones that are not able to have a proper mindset, and should be seeing a proffesional instead of being trowed into the ring alone with their trauma's to feast upon...

That made me sick, I know these people would overcome their issues in time, and instead they commit suicide, die trying to heal themselves, or get excluded from their school...

Furthermore, if they are in the englightening business, which they claim they are, the first step would be a thorough screening of the person that is applying, because you cant really enlighten a dead person anymore, they should have preperation, screening, structural solutions for the ones that are instable... If they fail to do so, you get consequences, like the members in here have posted about: suicide, death, disolution,;;;

It feels very sad to hear 'they created their own reality', and at the same time you know from the inside this person, or these people could have been saved by them, if they werent so f***** selfish!!!!! And just put a little compassion and professionality into their school....

Im sorry if I get a little angry, its very very sad to be a witness of that...

So, now you are updated ;-)

Pete

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Re: Hello everyone

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:14 pm

Oldone wrote:First you did not get the chance to talk to the big guy,if you would have had that opportunity
Did you have questions prepared? and if so can you share those questions with us.
Actually, I had a whole list of questions, wandering around inside my head, I did not prepare these questions before I went to RSE, that happens kind of spontaniously when I'm there in that moment. Reason for that is that I follow my intuition in such a situation, instead of having a conversation prepared... The best questions that you can ask, are the ones that come from your inspiration in the moment itself...

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Re: Hello everyone

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:17 pm

Oldone wrote:Since you are not going to move to Yelm are you planning to prepare for TDTC or you do not really buy in to that ?
Nah, would spoil my future woudnt it... :D

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Robair
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Hello

Unread post by Robair » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:38 pm

Hello Pete
I do thank you kindly for your respond and you willingness to keep the communication open,it is much apreciated.
Quote
They hear about RSE, and the promises it keeps, and they put all their hopes, money and everything else into that school...

That school isnt prepared to attend the mentally ill, and doesnt have the proper personel that is educated to accompany those who have suffered severe damage in their life. Instead they leave you out in the cold with philosophy, that YOU need to transform into your own experience. If you are not able to do that, you will be left on your own.

I could not have put it better my self.

Don't you thiink that there is a BIG LACK of integrity and impacability of the part of the school promoting and using the weekness and hillness of people for the simple reason to make money

Quote
The best questions that you can ask, are the ones that come from your inspiration in the moment itself.

If you don't mind here is my problem with that,and you must admit that you being in the mind set of the teaching at that time and your critical thinking not at it full capacity you might not have come with realy chalenging questions, that why I was asking you if you had prepared some questions before when you mind was clearer.

Nah, would spoil my future woudnt it :lol:

Very much SO ;-) ;-)

Oldone

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Unread post by Wakeup-Call » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:21 am

Hi Pete,

Glad you enjoyed your trip to Yelm! And thanks for posting your notes on your experience. Really interesting point about how a school really serious about bringing about enlightenment would do better at screening the mentally unstable - hadn't considered that before and point well taken.

I almost hope you attend a second event just to see what you think about the events that aren't targeted to bringing in new recruits.

My observation is that the teachers put on their best faces at the beginner events and are kind, interesting and helpful. My observation is that, at regular events, they are self-centered, impatient, condescending and guru-ish.

Appreciate your posts and especially your compassionate concern for the woman Marie you met.

Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:29 am

thanks for sharing Pete... ... Interesting re your 90percent belief in Ramtha when the very next thing you say is that you didn't get to talk to him. If you were in JZ's shoes being Ramtha and there was someone like you at an event so sincere and centered and intelligent etc who had friends he could bring into enlightenedland... wouldn't you in JZ's shoes go right up to such a young man and answer all his questions?
Even leaving/not returning to JZ's world I believed in Ramtha's existence, and was of the commonly held belief that Ramtha had been and left - at the Gathering of the Eagles.... Until I listened to the audio tapes again, and again. and saw/heard/got what others have - the consistent verbal abuse - the consistent pattern of building up people's egos, presenting Ramtha as The Answer and bashing people,..... Always - if you don't stay and continue coming you aren't 'ready', aren't sincere, aren't passionate about becoming enlightened/healing/saving people... etc etc etc....
Also interesting is the continuous slipperyness of the accent -- Which accent did Ramtha use for the beginners - the India/Oxford English, the New Mexico twang, the Washington state with a mixture of twang mispronounced words and a dash of the 'old English'. The best I've heard is the "I'm not drunk" slipping slurring back and forth between accents... ... I'm curious which she uses now, really.
I wonder why if you recognize it as a cult that you would recommend your friends to attend.
I wonder if you need to rationalize your attending. Or simply trying to see all sides, so to speak.
The nicest man was a bus driver for a community over several generations of students... ... so it took several generations to recognize that he had been molesting young girls all along. ... What is the significance of "nice teachers" teaching plaigiarized material as part of a program designed to manipulate hypnotize and control people?
And why should the healthy intelligent people be encouraged to be participant in a cult, but not the unhealthy? Everyone, intelligent stupid centered crazy drug free and drug addicted have been harmed by their participation. Should only people in good physical condition cut their arm off because they can handle it better than the physically ill or anemic? .... I just don't understand your reasoning.
just spilled coffee... gota go...

Tree
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Unread post by Tree » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:36 am

Hi Pete-
I am sure jz is looking at your post several times over to
see, how, in fact, she can improve upon her already marketed product.
It will be interesting to see the changes after your post.
After all, you DID make a "conscious" decision to go even after coming to this website.
I put conscious in quotes because, after knowing how much you have read regarding Ramtha,
and listened to cd's,
you are pretty well indoctrinated already.
You have some critical thinking left,
or you wouldn't still be posting
and posing a few questions that are legitimate like:
they kept certain things for themselves, as well did blue college students, thats something they didnt count on, most of my group fell for that,
this is a very good hook.
"We can't say any more because we have more advanced teachings,
and YOU, as a 'beginner', really need to put in your time
and disciplines to forge your way
before we share openly with you."

If you are wandering why I'm so sure, Ive made eyecontact with JZ, looked her straight into her eyes, that wasnt her.
mind you Pete,
she has 30 years on perfecting this character.
not to mention bella donna, or any other additives.
:shock:


Did enjoy the disiplines very much, that gave me a lot of insight into reality and myself.
I would have to agree with you here.
And that is the big caveat to new age or self help or religious groups:
one DOES have valid experiences in which one discovers things about oneself
and then endeavors to improve upon such "flaws", in oneself, if you will.

I had as example experience today at KMart.
An 87 y old lady beat me to a shopping cart,
then proceeded to have a tongue tied interaction with the cashier after separate shopping excursions.
Little did I know at the time she was 87 because she looked 60 and was as sharp as a tac!!
Anyway, the cashier forgot to ask the woman if she wanted to apply for a Sears credit card.
The older lady said, "Missy?!? Is this your first day on the job?!"
"yes, ma'am."
"Well then. I won't ask for the manager about what the prize is that I get if the cashier does not
ask me if I want to open a Sears account. I will spare you."
:oops: "oh. thank you ma'am."
Terrible pause while the cash register rings.
older lady on the way out : " I am just so happy I didn't have to hear that BS of a sales line again!!!"
:lol: :lol:
the entire line at the register roared.

Moral of the story:
watch out for the old ladies who have their wits about them!
They will get you any which way!!
:lol:

See? enlightening and " I am twenty years younger" all at K Mart! :shock: ;-)

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:10 am

pete, for now i will just say that i'm encouraged to know that 10% of you doesn't believe in rse/ramtha/jz.

that's a ray of hope.

also encouraging to know you still feel compassion toward others, and it invokes your sadness and anger. good news. that means that you haven't succumbed (yet) to the notion that, "they created their reality", so just be a master about it and detach for YOUR emotional body. masters watch people die all the time, pete, and they don't get rattled. just ask ramtha.

by the way, i hope you return and you make a Focused effort, a manifestation, not just a casual attitude of maybe/maybe not, and see if you are powerful enough to manifest talking to the big dude. when you do that, you'll also be powerful enough to ask him why he needs to have in his reality, the action of physically assaulting women, men and speaking in sexually explicit, extremely, vile, foul language, for hours and hours on end, in front of children, pete ? why ???

i'd like to hear the old goat's answer to that, myself.

pete, you never will.

and if you dared, you're ass would be thrown, literally, out onto the rocks like the few before you, who dared defy the staff or the dictator-one.

i will continue to hold hope for you...that 10%, to save you from yourself.

if you believe in new age thought, good for you. i don't personally care if you believe that, or any religion...not the point. but the point IS, there MUST BE a kinder, gentler, more loving way than to act like a barbarian. and that, is what jz is.

;-)

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:08 pm

Another Dimension60 wrote:thanks for sharing Pete... ... Interesting re your 90percent belief in Ramtha when the very next thing you say is that you didn't get to talk to him. If you were in JZ's shoes being Ramtha and there was someone like you at an event so sincere and centered and intelligent etc who had friends he could bring into enlightenedland... wouldn't you in JZ's shoes go right up to such a young man and answer all his questions?
Even leaving/not returning to JZ's world I believed in Ramtha's existence, and was of the commonly held belief that Ramtha had been and left - at the Gathering of the Eagles.... Until I listened to the audio tapes again, and again. and saw/heard/got what others have - the consistent verbal abuse - the consistent pattern of building up people's egos, presenting Ramtha as The Answer and bashing people,..... Always - if you don't stay and continue coming you aren't 'ready', aren't sincere, aren't passionate about becoming enlightened/healing/saving people... etc etc etc....
Also interesting is the continuous slipperyness of the accent -- Which accent did Ramtha use for the beginners - the India/Oxford English, the New Mexico twang, the Washington state with a mixture of twang mispronounced words and a dash of the 'old English'. The best I've heard is the "I'm not drunk" slipping slurring back and forth between accents... ... I'm curious which she uses now, really.
I wonder why if you recognize it as a cult that you would recommend your friends to attend.
I wonder if you need to rationalize your attending. Or simply trying to see all sides, so to speak.
The nicest man was a bus driver for a community over several generations of students... ... so it took several generations to recognize that he had been molesting young girls all along. ... What is the significance of "nice teachers" teaching plaigiarized material as part of a program designed to manipulate hypnotize and control people?
And why should the healthy intelligent people be encouraged to be participant in a cult, but not the unhealthy? Everyone, intelligent stupid centered crazy drug free and drug addicted have been harmed by their participation. Should only people in good physical condition cut their arm off because they can handle it better than the physically ill or anemic? .... I just don't understand your reasoning.
just spilled coffee... gota go...

If I were a Master-teacher, I would have done that yes, I agree... especially if you know there were only 8 students in my group...

Whats the gathering of the eagles?

Like I said earlier here on the board, a cult isnt nessecaraly a 'bad thing'. Not all people get abused by attending an event. You can get lots of fun out of it (Archery, Grid, ;;;), interesting viewpoints, meet nice people, have a good laugh with those fanatics, like your grandparents had a good long laugh with the Nazi's for thinking they were '?bermenschen'.

The verbal abuse: thats a very personal effect, where some may see it as building up ego, others may get a higher state of conciousness, there is nothing wrong with seeing the God-ness inside oneself, humble, serving and loving all of Gods creatures, but if you put that God-ness in a place were you would be separate from that Godly creation, you are in trouble young man! :lol:

The accent: make known the unknown! Have them all! Have the gestapo accent followed by the greedy jew accent, hahaha :-x The accent during the speech which I have seen in Yelm was pretty normal, american kind of accent, if you look up the latest videos on Youtube, thats how she was speaking...

Why recommed: I guess you have a lot more experience than me in RSE, and therefor you probably dont understand me saying I would recommend that place, I know Im not in a place to see the whole picture about RSE, and you probably are... But if someone asks me about RSE, I would be carefull in answering, I know the conscequences for those who see it as the ultimate solution, and would suggest that place only to those with their both feet on the ground...

My reasoning: I dont understand it either sometimes, but that made me come to the conclusion that reasoning isnt the most efficient way to come to conclusions for as far as I can see... Hope you understand this... Critical thinking didnt get me very far, it is not 'seeing things as they are', it doesnt help you to be without judgement, nor does it help you to leave certain things unanswered... Instead it keeps you separate from your own intuition, and makes you believe that the mind has all the answers instead of trusting your own higher self... Boeddha and Jesus and all the others werent so critical in their thinking either, yet, critical thinking can save you from becoming a Ramster... But so can your higher self... So can EMF... So can Jesus...

I feel a lot of concern here on the board, I knew the danger before I went to Yelm, people in here did a good job in informing me about the bunkers, the suicides, ... That would have taken a while longer if I didnt find out about EMF before I went, so I want to say to all of you: thanks for sharing that information, you did your part in here: Thank you!

Cheers,

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:29 pm

Wakeup-Call wrote:Hi Pete,

Glad you enjoyed your trip to Yelm! And thanks for posting your notes on your experience. Really interesting point about how a school really serious about bringing about enlightenment would do better at screening the mentally unstable - hadn't considered that before and point well taken.

I almost hope you attend a second event just to see what you think about the events that aren't targeted to bringing in new recruits.

My observation is that the teachers put on their best faces at the beginner events and are kind, interesting and helpful. My observation is that, at regular events, they are self-centered, impatient, condescending and guru-ish.

Appreciate your posts and especially your compassionate concern for the woman Marie you met.
Hi WC,

That really disturbed me over there, no compassion, not serious about enlightening people, no mercy for the weak...

I got a good experience with those teachers, but they did had their inaccuracies, like Mitche, he claimed to have 'manifested' a gold coin out of nothing in the beginning, later it turned out he found that gold coin under the seat of his car... probably put there by Jesus who felt sorry about manifesting bread and fish for that hungry mob and let the world read about it... I mean, manifasting out of nothing means you are doing the same as described in the bible... not vacuum cleaning it up underneath the seat of your car...

I would go to a second event, if it werent so expensive, the France event is with Ramtha himself, not so far from where I live in Belgium, and Im interested, but I have my insights already, and am not in the mood to spend so much money on seeing him right now...

Greetz,

P

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:52 pm

Tree wrote: I had as example experience today at KMart.
An 87 y old lady beat me to a shopping cart,
then proceeded to have a tongue tied interaction with the cashier after separate shopping excursions.
Little did I know at the time she was 87 because she looked 60 and was as sharp as a tac!!
Anyway, the cashier forgot to ask the woman if she wanted to apply for a Sears credit card.
The older lady said, "Missy?!? Is this your first day on the job?!"
"yes, ma'am."
"Well then. I won't ask for the manager about what the prize is that I get if the cashier does not
ask me if I want to open a Sears account. I will spare you."
:oops: "oh. thank you ma'am."
Terrible pause while the cash register rings.
older lady on the way out : " I am just so happy I didn't have to hear that BS of a sales line again!!!"
:lol: :lol:
the entire line at the register roared.

Moral of the story:
watch out for the old ladies who have their wits about them!
They will get you any which way!!
:lol:

See? enlightening and " I am twenty years younger" all at K Mart! :shock: ;-)
Hi Tree,

First: didnt notice that PM, unfortunatly...

Second: agree with you all along your last post... I kind of follow my intuition and cant be sure untill I actually met both...

Third: Lol, nice anekdote... some 'ladies', not very lady-like, do have 'mastership', develloped along those years, they all act out of POWER instead of something else, like compassion, most of them dont even know how to be different, still think we are animals, are very manipulating, eager to have contol over others, yet dont have control over themselves, They will get you in the end of the day, true, hahaha, most of the time they even think they are the ones that are the on the winning team, most unfortunate, going through life as such a predator, eat or be eaten, untill they meet a big fat T-rex that will have them for supper... cant blame them for being ignorant, only able to take, not knowing how to give, they miss joy in their life, and thats pity... As they say: wisdom doesnt always come over the years...

Hope you are doing well,

Pete

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:12 pm

Pete -

you said:

"Critical thinking didnt get me very far, it is not 'seeing things as they are', it doesnt help you to be without judgement, nor does it help you to leave certain things unanswered... Instead it keeps you separate from your own intuition, and makes you believe that the mind has all the answers instead of trusting your own higher self... Boeddha and Jesus and all the others werent so critical in their thinking either, yet, critical thinking can save you from becoming a Ramster... But so can your higher self... So can EMF... So can Jesus... "

I disagree with you about "critical thinking (CT)." I don't believe that CT keeps you separate from your own intuition - I believe that CT is the voice of your higher power (i.e. God) talking to you and that CT is the foundation of one's intuition.

I was a student for 20 years (13 of those active), and more clarity is being revealed to me each day. RSE had stripped me of my values, switched up my goals, and totally dismissed my life (as I had known it and loved it). It produced an ominous fear in me for all of my loved ones who were not in the school. It gave me a false sense of importance and my communication with the "normies" was laced with RSE rhetoric. I felt I was super powerful just because I was a student of Ramtha, and believed I could raise the dead if need be when the time came. Had I applied non-tainted CT to my personal situations I would have been horrified by my grandiosity.

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:17 pm

and Pete,

Not to stop you from making your own decision about returning to an event -- that is purely your own decision -- but it appears to me that because you are willing to attend a second event it is an indication that JZ has you where she wants you -- tempted by the carrot being dangled just out of your reach -- sort of like the apple in the Garden of Eden.

You have generated a very interesting dialogue with people here who have been where you are going and have your best interests at heart. Everyone has their own path in this life, and far be it from any of us to tell you what to do. No one was ever able to convince ME not to attend the school.

Your RSE diary is fascinating. Please, please keep posting.

Sincerely,
CD

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:22 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:pete, for now i will just say that i'm encouraged to know that 10% of you doesn't believe in rse/ramtha/jz.

that's a ray of hope.

also encouraging to know you still feel compassion toward others, and it invokes your sadness and anger. good news. that means that you haven't succumbed (yet) to the notion that, "they created their reality", so just be a master about it and detach for YOUR emotional body. masters watch people die all the time, pete, and they don't get rattled. just ask ramtha.

by the way, i hope you return and you make a Focused effort, a manifestation, not just a casual attitude of maybe/maybe not, and see if you are powerful enough to manifest talking to the big dude. when you do that, you'll also be powerful enough to ask him why he needs to have in his reality, the action of physically assaulting women, men and speaking in sexually explicit, extremely, vile, foul language, for hours and hours on end, in front of children, pete ? why ???

i'd like to hear the old goat's answer to that, myself.

pete, you never will.

and if you dared, you're ass would be thrown, literally, out onto the rocks like the few before you, who dared defy the staff or the dictator-one.

i will continue to hold hope for you...that 10%, to save you from yourself.

if you believe in new age thought, good for you. i don't personally care if you believe that, or any religion...not the point. but the point IS, there MUST BE a kinder, gentler, more loving way than to act like a barbarian. and that, is what jz is.

;-)
Hey you dont have to worry about Pete :D

Still, I appreciate it, but I'd like to say that worrying is the last thing I want you to be doing...

I agree with you on kindness, the loving way... and I dont get what the Conan-approach is all about, but find it very amusing nevertheless...

Masters? Masters who have other people dying around them and are to ego-centric to intervene... They better learn how to raise the dead or they will be sorry in the end of the day...

I do believe in not reacting on your emotions, but instead of reacting on emotions: solve problems, seeing the challenge in a problem, and deal with it the best way you can...

Ignorance can be forgiven, egoism would be something different..

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:50 pm

California Dreamin' wrote:Pete -

you said:

"Critical thinking didnt get me very far, it is not 'seeing things as they are', it doesnt help you to be without judgement, nor does it help you to leave certain things unanswered... Instead it keeps you separate from your own intuition, and makes you believe that the mind has all the answers instead of trusting your own higher self... Boeddha and Jesus and all the others werent so critical in their thinking either, yet, critical thinking can save you from becoming a Ramster... But so can your higher self... So can EMF... So can Jesus... "

I disagree with you about "critical thinking (CT)." I don't believe that CT keeps you separate from your own intuition - I believe that CT is the voice of your higher power (i.e. God) talking to you and that CT is the foundation of one's intuition.

I was a student for 20 years (13 of those active), and more clarity is being revealed to me each day. RSE had stripped me of my values, switched up my goals, and totally dismissed my life (as I had known it and loved it). It produced an ominous fear in me for all of my loved ones who were not in the school. It gave me a false sense of importance and my communication with the "normies" was laced with RSE rhetoric. I felt I was super powerful just because I was a student of Ramtha, and believed I could raise the dead if need be when the time came. Had I applied non-tainted CT to my personal situations I would have been horrified by my grandiosity.
Hmmm, I find that interesting... I see them as two different 'things'

I have on one side 'CT' that questions and reasons and doubts everyting and doesnt come up with a clear point of view on the situation as it is spread out before me...
On the other hand I have a sort of 'feeling and intuition kind of knowing' that makes me do things against all odds... and in long term proves to be more reliable than my 'CT'

Could it be that your 'higher self' made you aware of the importance of 'CT' in RSE, or was it maybe that 'CT' was the spring-board that develloped you to act out of that 'CT'-foundation of intuition? Was it a chicken that you ate, or did you had an egg? :lol: I mean: apparently you kind of combined the two together, which I have not, and I find it interesting to know how you did that... Enlighten me :P

Pete

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Hello everyone

Unread post by Robair » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:23 pm

Hello Pete.

Again I must tell you how great it is of you to keep the conversation going with us I for one do apreciate it very much.

Your are very funny in this
Quote


I got a good experience with those teachers, but they did had their inaccuracies, like Mitche, he claimed to have 'manifested' a gold coin out of nothing in the beginning, later it turned out he found that gold coin under the seat of his car... probably put there by Jesus who felt sorry about manifesting bread and fish for that hungry mob and let the world read about it... I mean, manifasting out of nothing means you are doing the same as described in the bible... not vacuum cleaning it up underneath the seat of your car...

Manifesting with a Vacuum Very funny :lol: :lol:

It would be save to say that He probabely that the Gold coin did fall off is poket while driving sometime before

But my point here is if HE or THEY lie about manifestating
HOW DO YOU KNOWN WHEN THEY TELLING THE TRUTH.

Ramtha Has made many predictions ,told us that he will lie to us to get us there.
WHEN DO WE KNOW HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH

One more thing you admited that the school was a cult,when you are going to talk to other friends about it are you going to tell them that the Ramtha school is a cult?

Her are a just a few control technic Cult use

Any familiar one that you can relate with ?

Subjection to stress and fatigue
2) Social disruption, isolation and pressure
3) Self criticism and humiliation
4) Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
5) Control of information
6) Escalating commitment
7) Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences



Oldone

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Re: Hello everyone

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:59 pm

Oldone wrote: But my point here is if HE or THEY lie about manifestating
HOW DO YOU KNOWN WHEN THEY TELLING THE TRUTH.

Ramtha Has made many predictions ,told us that he will lie to us to get us there.
WHEN DO WE KNOW HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH

One more thing you admited that the school was a cult,when you are going to talk to other friends about it are you going to tell them that the Ramtha school is a cult?

Her are a just a few control technic Cult use

Any familiar one that you can relate with ?

1) Subjection to stress and fatigue
2) Social disruption, isolation and pressure
3) Self criticism and humiliation
4) Fear, anxiety, and paranoia
5) Control of information
6) Escalating commitment
7) Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experience
I guess we'll just have to try out if its true or false...

If I suggest that place to my friends, I'll be making very sure that this is a cult, before they go I'll probably tatoo 'RSE is a Cult!' on their forehead myself... ;-)

1) YES
2) YES to all of them
3) Not really, maybe too soon...
4) Not yet, but got their act going on in blue college and 2-timers in my group
5) YES
6) YES
7) YES, they really didnt need to make the effort, 'any' peak experience wears off in time, happen to be an ex-drugaddict... did discover some nice music though, like the latest 'cirque du soleil - Ka' So had some nice moments with that as well.

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by G2G » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:53 pm

Quote: "My observation is that the teachers put on their best faces at the beginner events and are kind, interesting and helpful. My observation is that, at regular events, they are self-centered, impatient, condescending and guru-ish."

My observation and experience as well. Some are quite *mean* to students. You won't see this at a beginner's retreat because it's all "happy happy joy joy." Wham. Bursts the bubble after you're hooked at the next retreats.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:08 pm

Another Dimension60 wrote:thanks for sharing Pete... ... Interesting re your 90percent belief in Ramtha when the very next thing you say is that you didn't get to talk to him. If you were in JZ's shoes being Ramtha and there was someone like you at an event so sincere and centered and intelligent etc who had friends he could bring into enlightenedland... wouldn't you in JZ's shoes go right up to such a young man and answer all his questions?
Even leaving/not returning to JZ's world I believed in Ramtha's existence, and was of the commonly held belief that Ramtha had been and left - at the Gathering of the Eagles.... Until I listened to the audio tapes again, and again. and saw/heard/got what others have - the consistent verbal abuse - the consistent pattern of building up people's egos, presenting Ramtha as The Answer and bashing people,..... Always - if you don't stay and continue coming you aren't 'ready', aren't sincere, aren't passionate about becoming enlightened/healing/saving people... etc etc etc....
Also interesting is the continuous slipperyness of the accent -- Which accent did Ramtha use for the beginners - the India/Oxford English, the New Mexico twang, the Washington state with a mixture of twang mispronounced words and a dash of the 'old English'. The best I've heard is the "I'm not drunk" slipping slurring back and forth between accents... ... I'm curious which she uses now, really.
I wonder why if you recognize it as a cult that you would recommend your friends to attend.
I wonder if you need to rationalize your attending. Or simply trying to see all sides, so to speak.
The nicest man was a bus driver for a community over several generations of students... ... so it took several generations to recognize that he had been molesting young girls all along. ... What is the significance of "nice teachers" teaching plaigiarized material as part of a program designed to manipulate hypnotize and control people?
And why should the healthy intelligent people be encouraged to be participant in a cult, but not the unhealthy? Everyone, intelligent stupid centered crazy drug free and drug addicted have been harmed by their participation. Should only people in good physical condition cut their arm off because they can handle it better than the physically ill or anemic? .... I just don't understand your reasoning.
just spilled coffee... gota go...

::helps AD60 clean the coffee spill:: Agree. The relationship between RamAllThat and her students is one of a typically abusive relationship. Tell the person you love them, abuse them. Give them flowers, tell them you love them. Abuse them. And on and on and on...until the abused awakens.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:22 pm

Tree posts: "This is a very good hook.
"We can't say any more because we have more advanced teachings,
and YOU, as a 'beginner', really need to put in your time
and disciplines to forge your way
before we share openly with you."

Then when in "Primary," the exact blue college teachings are presented to you in the form of JZ in her videos. You watch the same videos twice a day...at the cost of "Primary" instead of blue college.... You find they've done away with things you were taught at beginners (C&E), and they now focus on something with which they can earn "notoriety," ie: card reading.

Read Vera Alder. JZ mirrors her story very nicely...well, perhaps not so nicely. ;-) ;-) ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:33 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:pete, for now i will just say that i'm encouraged to know that 10% of you doesn't believe in rse/ramtha/jz.

that's a ray of hope.

also encouraging to know you still feel compassion toward others, and it invokes your sadness and anger. good news. that means that you haven't succumbed (yet) to the notion that, "they created their reality", so just be a master about it and detach for YOUR emotional body. masters watch people die all the time, pete, and they don't get rattled. just ask ramtha.

(snip)
if you believe in new age thought, good for you. i don't personally care if you believe that, or any religion...not the point. but the point IS, there MUST BE a kinder, gentler, more loving way than to act like a barbarian. and that, is what jz is.

;-)
Brava!!!! You said it, Whatcha. Just how does she get away with assaulting people in her audience? It is mind boggling. :shock: Pete, you really had to be there. The language, the spatting onstage, the punching an innocent father in front of his wife and children, because of some fantasy JZ had that this guy was having fantasies about her and her "best friend," SH (I do hope she's left the group). It was my first event, and I couldn't see that far into the back. I was onstage with a certain "high profiler" since reduced to, I don't know what, while this was occurring in the back of the "not-so-great" hall. My mind was whirling, as a result I sought out one individual for help, and that was the one who was once a priest. I wrongly believed he would never condone what was occurring, yet he didn't budge through all of it. Also, I'm very married and would never even consider anything of the sort, but this man simply would not make eye contact with me when we spoke, which I found quite odd. I make eye contact with people. Just me and how I grew up. ::shrug:: Anyway, getting off-topic. One thing that's been mentioned here and I can't stress enough, level of education and profession has absolutely *nothing* to do with one's "internment" at RSE. Use your *own* mind to decide. Many of the others will believe anything said, regardless of their life status. This, I know for certain. Sinister? Oh my heck, yes.
8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:42 pm

Pete:

I've been reading along, and can empathize with where you are in your thinking process re RSE. Do you know anyone who is an actor/actress, and has performed the same character for years on end? They do it without batting an eyelash or missing a step. Anyone can drop atropine/belladonna into their eyes, or use colored contact lense. (My eyes are very dark, yet with quality coloured contact lenses, people have actually believed I have the many different shades of "eye colour" when I'm wearing lenses.

Tread carefully. This is the highway to the dangerzone. (don't I know it) :!:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by swamibinton » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:18 pm

Hi EMO,
Good to read your comments and others and now you have your own insight into the school you may realise that even though there is areas of unsettled feelings that it all is not a waste of time and somethings are worth exploring for the experience,My advise keep one foot in and one foot out as you may just get somthing from it all.and like it has been said that sometimes you cant see the forrest for the trees.

Swami

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:05 am

swamibinton wrote:Hi EMO,
Good to read your comments and others and now you have your own insight into the school you may realise that even though there is areas of unsettled feelings that it all is not a waste of time and somethings are worth exploring for the experience,My advise keep one foot in and one foot out as you may just get somthing from it all.and like it has been said that sometimes you cant see the forrest for the trees.

Swami
Hi Swami,

Thats what I was planning, just because I dont agree with their policy and their way of treating people, doesnt mean I found it to be a bad experience, Im working to put their disciplines to the test... We shall see 8)

Pete

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:25 am

EMO said, "I agree with you on kindness, the loving way... and I dont get what the Conan-approach is all about, but find it very amusing nevertheless... "


A few comments:

* As the teachings go, the first three seals would be the territory in which the "Conan-approach" would be based from. If you accept that we all create our reality, then Ramtha chooses (CHOOSES) to use that approach. In order for "him" to do that, it means that he is not beyond the need/want to do so. (red flag)

* As an aside, and only for the purposes of comparison: I have gone to a few channelers in my time. One I went to, was Lazaris, while I was also going to RSE. As I've said before, while I was serious about my personal evolution, I was not a "Ramster" in the fanatical sense of the word. I was searching for myself, not to "follow" a guru. Anyway, the basic New Age message of God within ALL things, was true for the Lazaris teachings, as well as RSE. The major difference, and this striking difference also helped me to keep a few toes out of the RSE door at all times, was this comment Lazaris made: "We have grown beyond the need to use anything resembling a human emotion of a contracting kind (negative), and all we will do to teach you, is through gentleness and love."

Now, on the one hand, you could get into a tit-for-tat over the semantics of the duality in that statement. Lazaris was, whether he exists or not aside, making the point that there is a LOVING way to teach spirituality-new age thought, without anything remotely resembling the "Conan-approach". So, I thought long and hard about that, because I never liked that Conan approach from the get-go. How I didn't get kicked out of there is a mystery to me, because I sure enacted my share of "double dares" when refusing to comply. Part of me didn't care if I got kicked out, because my non-compliance was also my unacceptance of certain things I experienced/witnessed directly or indirectly.

I experienced Lazaris doing a DETAILED teaching on the brain, YEARS before Ramtha did. I even wondered if JZ had heard Jach Purcel's teaching (J.P. is the Lazaris channel). It was that closely aligned to what I had learned YEARS prior.
Yet, the Ramsters, who didn't even know any better because they never bothered to look outside of their little R-boxes, were all chattering away about how "this was the best teaching EVER". Again. ...... rolling eyes.....

* All that said, it leads me to wonder about just what type of human being does the RSE teachings attract ? One that needs/wants to have the Conan-type approach, for sure. Those that don't need/want it, don't remain there as current students very long. And, that is MOST people who ever pass through those doors. Only the minority return, and the average length of stay in cult-type groups is 2 - 3 years before people "get it" and move on. That has been studied, though I do not have the citation handy. A local non-never-was-an RSE student person that I knew and befriended for years, told me that she watched many, many people come and go over the years, and that most of them stuck around for a few years and disappeared. Don't know why I was such a dull bulb, but I hung around too long !!!!

* I can understand why you would see the Conan approach "amusing". If it were ONLY limited to the theatrics of it all, I would agree that yeah, you could sit back and roll your eyes, and look at it as amusing. But, there is a fact that cannot be overlooked, in my opinion. There are very sincere people who gave up so much to be in RSE, and who took Ramtha's words to HEART. For their own reasons, in a myriad of ways, a large number of people over the years fell victim to the EFFECTS of that Conan approach. Not that I don't have a healthy sense of humor, because I surely do ! I'm a very happy person. However, I don't find humor in ill fated attempts at Conan-like maniupulation and mind games over vulnerable human beings who are looking to what they have faith is a God presenting to them, the truth upon which they can trust and evolve themselves.

As others on EMF who are reading this thread, I have, too, taken the time TO read through it all. Make no mistake; I'm glad that you are posting, because it's clearly helping you to see a fuller picture and share your thoughts, too. BUT, you sound so "convinced", which as another poster mentioned a bit further up in this thread, they were "convinced" it was all for the betterment of mankind/evolution, too. You also said that you are not willing to spend the $$$$$$$ to be doing all of the events, or the Yelm events. But, you did mention going when R is in your neck of the woods. Yes, that's just all your choice, but with all sincerity, I wonder why you are still posting on here, when you are really a convinced, active RSE student ? What outcome do you expect ongoing posts to achieve ? We are surely not going to become "convinced" of why we ought to be in RSE. You don't want to be convinced you're making a .... I'll just use the word "mistake", though I don't intend to get into debating semantics over it. I'll assume you understand my sentiment in using the word. What do you think RSE can do for YOU, that YOU cannot do for YOURSELF ? Or, find a similar path that is far more loving and compassionate, and also costs a lot less !

Sincerely,
Whatcha

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:46 am

Whatchamacallit wrote:EMO said, "I agree with you on kindness, the loving way... and I dont get what the Conan-approach is all about, but find it very amusing nevertheless... "


A few comments:

* As the teachings go, the first three seals would be the territory in which the "Conan-approach" would be based from. If you accept that we all create our reality, then Ramtha chooses (CHOOSES) to use that approach. In order for "him" to do that, it means that he is not beyond the need/want to do so. (red flag)

* As an aside, and only for the purposes of comparison: I have gone to a few channelers in my time. One I went to, was Lazaris, while I was also going to RSE. As I've said before, while I was serious about my personal evolution, I was not a "Ramster" in the fanatical sense of the word. I was searching for myself, not to "follow" a guru. Anyway, the basic New Age message of God within ALL things, was true for the Lazaris teachings, as well as RSE. The major difference, and this striking difference also helped me to keep a few toes out of the RSE door at all times, was this comment Lazaris made: "We have grown beyond the need to use anything resembling a human emotion of a contracting kind (negative), and all we will do to teach you, is through gentleness and love."

Now, on the one hand, you could get into a tit-for-tat over the semantics of the duality in that statement. Lazaris was, whether he exists or not aside, making the point that there is a LOVING way to teach spirituality-new age thought, without anything remotely resembling the "Conan-approach". So, I thought long and hard about that, because I never liked that Conan approach from the get-go. How I didn't get kicked out of there is a mystery to me, because I sure enacted my share of "double dares" when refusing to comply. Part of me didn't care if I got kicked out, because my non-compliance was also my unacceptance of certain things I experienced/witnessed directly or indirectly.

I experienced Lazaris doing a DETAILED teaching on the brain, YEARS before Ramtha did. I even wondered if JZ had heard Jach Purcel's teaching (J.P. is the Lazaris channel). It was that closely aligned to what I had learned YEARS prior.
Yet, the Ramsters, who didn't even know any better because they never bothered to look outside of their little R-boxes, were all chattering away about how "this was the best teaching EVER". Again. ...... rolling eyes.....

* All that said, it leads me to wonder about just what type of human being does the RSE teachings attract ? One that needs/wants to have the Conan-type approach, for sure. Those that don't need/want it, don't remain there as current students very long. And, that is MOST people who ever pass through those doors. Only the minority return, and the average length of stay in cult-type groups is 2 - 3 years before people "get it" and move on. That has been studied, though I do not have the citation handy. A local non-never-was-an RSE student person that I knew and befriended for years, told me that she watched many, many people come and go over the years, and that most of them stuck around for a few years and disappeared. Don't know why I was such a dull bulb, but I hung around too long !!!!

* I can understand why you would see the Conan approach "amusing". If it were ONLY limited to the theatrics of it all, I would agree that yeah, you could sit back and roll your eyes, and look at it as amusing. But, there is a fact that cannot be overlooked, in my opinion. There are very sincere people who gave up so much to be in RSE, and who took Ramtha's words to HEART. For their own reasons, in a myriad of ways, a large number of people over the years fell victim to the EFFECTS of that Conan approach. Not that I don't have a healthy sense of humor, because I surely do ! I'm a very happy person. However, I don't find humor in ill fated attempts at Conan-like maniupulation and mind games over vulnerable human beings who are looking to what they have faith is a God presenting to them, the truth upon which they can trust and evolve themselves.

As others on EMF who are reading this thread, I have, too, taken the time TO read through it all. Make no mistake; I'm glad that you are posting, because it's clearly helping you to see a fuller picture and share your thoughts, too. BUT, you sound so "convinced", which as another poster mentioned a bit further up in this thread, they were "convinced" it was all for the betterment of mankind/evolution, too. You also said that you are not willing to spend the $$$$$$$ to be doing all of the events, or the Yelm events. But, you did mention going when R is in your neck of the woods. Yes, that's just all your choice, but with all sincerity, I wonder why you are still posting on here, when you are really a convinced, active RSE student ? What outcome do you expect ongoing posts to achieve ? We are surely not going to become "convinced" of why we ought to be in RSE. You don't want to be convinced you're making a .... I'll just use the word "mistake", though I don't intend to get into debating semantics over it. I'll assume you understand my sentiment in using the word. What do you think RSE can do for YOU, that YOU cannot do for YOURSELF ? Or, find a similar path that is far more loving and compassionate, and also costs a lot less !

Sincerely,
Whatcha
Wow, my eyes were wide open when I read your post...

You wander why I am still posting here? :arrow: Just ask me to leave and you will never hear from me again...

I am convinced about RSE? Didnt you read I see RSE as a cult, dont agree on their policy, feel sorry for all the people who are/were in that school

I've always respected peoples opinions, and so shall I respect yours, but dont forget I am not your ennemy, I just like to share my experiences with the people who wanted to hear about my retreat afterwards, if that has come to a point that it has become non-discussable, then I dont see any reason to post anymore.

No hard feelings, be honest with me..

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:26 am

Pete posted, "Wow, my eyes were wide open when I read your post...

You wander why I am still posting here? :arrow: Just ask me to leave and you will never hear from me again...

I am convinced about RSE? Didnt you read I see RSE as a cult, dont agree on their policy, feel sorry for all the people who are/were in that school

I've always respected peoples opinions, and so shall I respect yours, but dont forget I am not your ennemy, I just like to share my experiences with the people who wanted to hear about my retreat afterwards, if that has come to a point that it has become non-discussable, then I dont see any reason to post anymore.

No hard feelings, be honest with me..

Greetz,

Pete"



I AM being honest ...

I didn't ask you to leave; my post wasn't about that. I asked you a sincere question. I am still asking a sincere question... What do you expect .... personally .... as an outcome of your being a student in RSE ? I expect that in your answer, would be your purpose for going (no matter if it is in Yelm or elsewhere...that's not the point). Why do YOU post, when you are posting amidst people who have chosen to stop going, and who believe JZ Knight is a fraud ?

I don't think you are my enemy. I'm just really confounded as to why you admit, as you just said again, that you DO see the "red flags", so to speak, and yet you would even desire to have such a place, with such a "teacher" as the point of reference for your spiritual growth ? Especially when there are very loving, much more positive alternatives to teach you "new age thought" ?

You can engage any number of new age teachers (such as Lazaris...and I'm not suggesting that, but making a comparison), who will teach the same INFO, which you will have to apply in YOUR life to "see results", without...

1) EVER engaging in "XXX" rated, sexually explicit talk including IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

2) disrespect. Who will show you immense respect and kindness, all the while, teaching . (You don't have to taste dill pickles to know ice cream is sweet .... do YOU?)

3) needing/choosing/wanting to resort to drunken debauchery in order to deliver a teaching because it can only be best done when your "veils are down" . (bologna to that lie)

4) delivering teachings under the influence of alcohol, IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

5) physically assaulting adults on a number of occasions, for ANY reason.

Yes, I am being honest, EMO ! WHY would you choose that ESPECIALLY when there are alternatives if you choose the new age thought as where you place your "faith" ? I don't care if you're Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, New Age. I'm just questioning about these points, no matter WHAT the "religion" would be. I'd ask the same questions of anyone if their religion/spiritual teachings included the items listed above. There are other places that you can go, where you may not have to feel like it is a cult, or disagree with their policies, etc.

I know full well how easy it is to set these things aside, and continue on in RSE. I DID IT for years !!! That is why I am asking the questions. A number of us answered those questions later on, and those are the types of questions that we had to come to terms with, the "red flags", that caused the egg to crack, so we started to see the light of day outside of that RSE darkness...and we left. You're not even "invested" in years of the teachings yet, so why not make a more loving choice, earlier on ?

All very sincere questions, EMO.
Pete said, Just ask me to leave and you will never hear from me again...
(Also, for the record, if/when anyone is seen as posting inappropriately, that gets communicated to them in a direct manner. It's always a sad day, but sadly, it is sometimes necessary that the moderator's need to do their job. It's not a fun space to be in and the pay is atrocious)

;-) :P

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:12 am

Whatchamacallit wrote:
Pete posted, "Wow, my eyes were wide open when I read your post...

You wander why I am still posting here? :arrow: Just ask me to leave and you will never hear from me again...

I am convinced about RSE? Didnt you read I see RSE as a cult, dont agree on their policy, feel sorry for all the people who are/were in that school

I've always respected peoples opinions, and so shall I respect yours, but dont forget I am not your ennemy, I just like to share my experiences with the people who wanted to hear about my retreat afterwards, if that has come to a point that it has become non-discussable, then I dont see any reason to post anymore.

No hard feelings, be honest with me..

Greetz,

Pete"



I AM being honest ...

I didn't ask you to leave; my post wasn't about that. I asked you a sincere question. I am still asking a sincere question... What do you expect .... personally .... as an outcome of your being a student in RSE ? I expect that in your answer, would be your purpose for going (no matter if it is in Yelm or elsewhere...that's not the point). Why do YOU post, when you are posting amidst people who have chosen to stop going, and who believe JZ Knight is a fraud ?

I don't think you are my enemy. I'm just really confounded as to why you admit, as you just said again, that you DO see the "red flags", so to speak, and yet you would even desire to have such a place, with such a "teacher" as the point of reference for your spiritual growth ? Especially when there are very loving, much more positive alternatives to teach you "new age thought" ?

You can engage any number of new age teachers (such as Lazaris...and I'm not suggesting that, but making a comparison), who will teach the same INFO, which you will have to apply in YOUR life to "see results", without...

1) EVER engaging in "XXX" rated, sexually explicit talk including IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

2) disrespect. Who will show you immense respect and kindness, all the while, teaching . (You don't have to taste dill pickles to know ice cream is sweet .... do YOU?)

3) needing/choosing/wanting to resort to drunken debauchery in order to deliver a teaching because it can only be best done when your "veils are down" . (bologna to that lie)

4) delivering teachings under the influence of alcohol, IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

5) physically assaulting adults on a number of occasions, for ANY reason.

Yes, I am being honest, EMO ! WHY would you choose that ESPECIALLY when there are alternatives if you choose the new age thought as where you place your "faith" ? I don't care if you're Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, New Age. I'm just questioning about these points, no matter WHAT the "religion" would be. I'd ask the same questions of anyone if their religion/spiritual teachings included the items listed above. There are other places that you can go, where you may not have to feel like it is a cult, or disagree with their policies, etc.

I know full well how easy it is to set these things aside, and continue on in RSE. I DID IT for years !!! That is why I am asking the questions. A number of us answered those questions later on, and those are the types of questions that we had to come to terms with, the "red flags", that caused the egg to crack, so we started to see the light of day outside of that RSE darkness...and we left. You're not even "invested" in years of the teachings yet, so why not make a more loving choice, earlier on ?

All very sincere questions, EMO.
Pete said, Just ask me to leave and you will never hear from me again...
(Also, for the record, if/when anyone is seen as posting inappropriately, that gets communicated to them in a direct manner. It's always a sad day, but sadly, it is sometimes necessary that the moderator's need to do their job. It's not a fun space to be in and the pay is atrocious)

;-) :P
DONT ask me that if you dont respect my opinion

DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

DONT think you even know what I am choosing for, are you telepathic?

DONT give me your list with arguments, you should know I dont agree with them

DONT tell me where to go, as you, Im free to explore whatever I want to whenever I want to

DONT tell me what to do, if I should like to kiss Ramthas enlightened behind, you should respect that...

Note to administrator:

You might want to change "where you are welcome" into "where you are welcome, unless you disagree with Whatchamacallit" :lol:

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...

Im off to sleep,

No hard feelings,

Pete

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:59 am

AAAAhhhhh, I see I've sparked a lively debate !

Thank you, Pete.

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:00 am

DONT ask me that if you dont respect my opinion

DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

DONT think you even know what I am choosing for, are you telepathic?

DONT give me your list with arguments, you should know I dont agree with them

DONT tell me where to go, as you, Im free to explore whatever I want to whenever I want to

DONT tell me what to do, if I should like to kiss Ramthas enlightened behind, you should respect that...

Note to administrator:

You might want to change "where you are welcome" into "where you are welcome, unless you disagree with Whatchamacallit"

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...
Interesting statements "Enlighten me objectively"Pete...while asking for an objective debate with open minds on EMF, :roll:

Opinions need not to be respected on EMF, but to respectfully disagree with another opinion is...!
Just as...All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do.
Watcha and the other posters have asked many direct questions to you, only to have them breezed past with little consequence. Now you have resorted to diverting attention elsewhere with unfounded accusations,
such as..
So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, .
Hopefully questions and disagreements respectfully posed on EMF will challenge our opinions and observations.
This is often the key needed to unlock an imprisoned heart and ignorant mindset.
you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board.
Just not so Pete, there are several fundamental differences of opinion, intentions and philosophies going on here.
I hope this can be explored more directly.
On another note..
Have you spoken with any RSE staff members about your concerns?
Or mentioned EMF at all? Either in Yelm or in your home country?

I was looking forward to meeting you in Yelm,
I offered to meet you anytime of your choosing, yet you declined once you arrived in Yelm, not even to call.
I am sure we would have have enjoyed our cup of tea.,not only to chat about these RSE issues, but as fellow musicians,
Perhaps.... to have shown you my music studio nor far from Yelm..
Did you stay warm during those icy cold nights ?
Who knows.....Our meeting may have saved you from Taco Bell and "RSE's poisoning of the soul..............!
Chuckle.

But I also understand the intensity and time consuming environment and demands of attending an RSE event..
Once the ?Ramtha? wool is pulled over one?s eyes, and that warm fuzzy feeling of "knowingness" takes hold..
the outside world soon shrinks to insignificance..
I advise you to question your ?intuitiveness? with your stated gift of objectivity.
Intuitiveness is not infallible, especially to a master of deception such as Judith.
As for you are?.
90% sure that it actually is Ramtha inside JZ Knight.
They are merely two sides of the same coin, a fool?s gold.
Judith Darleen Hampton is still buried beneath her terrible delusions, awaiting her own 'One fine Morn".

There is no ?Do not ask me? prerequisite for posting on EMF, so please grant the same courtesy to our other EMF posters.
The fact is you are a current RSE member, with the intention to ?keep one foot in and one foot out??! This is a very common attitude held by every stanch RSE member I know, yet, in reality..
They have been snared hook, line and sinker leaving behind a trail of broken trusts and hearts.

I will recommend to the moderators that this entire thread be moved to the
"RSE Current Students Debate Forum"

May the Muse be with us...

David.

Muse - Wikipedia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:12 am

AD60 said, "And why should the healthy intelligent people be encouraged to be participant in a cult, but not the unhealthy? Everyone, intelligent stupid centered crazy drug free and drug addicted have been harmed by their participation. Should only people in good physical condition cut their arm off because they can handle it better than the physically ill or anemic? .... I just don't understand your reasoning. "
Thanks, AD. I'm glad to know that I am not alone in not understanding EMO's reasoning.

Respect it, but disagree with it. Does anyone on here, other than Swamibinton, agree with EMO's reasoning ?

We've seen this pattern before, where the hard, straightforward questions are asked, BUT NOT ANSWERED, and then the person that asks, is attacked.

Now, we're seeing the pattern again.

I understand that it's very difficult to look at the issues that I've pointed out, and then find a way to justify attending, thus SUPPORTING, RSE. It creates cognitive dissonance.

That's MY opinion

;-) .

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Unread post by ex » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:12 am

thanks for posting again after your event.when i read your post i started to write back and got lost.the emberessing thing is i would have argued the same way after my beginner.i was convinced too that there is someone else at home in jz.but watching her closer over the years and especialy in not mandatory events or events targeted to real in new flesh[or cash] ramtha got too manny menapause houswife troubles.far off a warriour mind.the show is impressive.not showing peorsonal up is just to make you strive forward to be part of bc.you will find the desire growing in you to come back to restore the spirituall uplifting feeling you get through all the "work".thats the first programing.whatever smart reason you bring up for it it might not be your dessison it might be the introduced programing.good that you saw the ramthter answer to all comunication.but make no mistake jzr might say: think for yourself.but its pretty clear:you dont disscuss the ram.no cult but every aspect of a cult r present at rse.the guys you describe[bc people quoting r all the time the waking sobeit guy]might have started like you and r just products of linguistic programing.please forgive this metapher but its just like watching a child playing around the stove. you know it will get burned you try to shout warnings but you know you cant prevent the burned fingers [the expierience]i wish you all the best.after leaving rse i also contemplated how it would have been just to come for a beginner and maybe some events rse might have kept its magig and r might be still my hero.the beginner was the only worthwile thing.[lots of exercises and tools]but it was not worth staying so prolonged...good luck

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Unread post by Kensho » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:15 am

DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...

EMO,

In concern for the directions you have taken in support of your position please accept the following in the kindness and understanding with which it is intended.

Mr. Goenka is a very great teacher and has dedicated himself to teaching people a basic meditation technique. Vipassana is often associated with Buddhism but a practitioner of the technique is not necessarily a practitioner of Buddhism.

One is not required to become a Buddhist to attend the retreats hosted by Mr. Goenka's organization and if I remember correctly, he does not define himself as a Buddhist.

I am interested to learn what is your Buddhist tradition and whose interpretation of the dharma do you align yourself with. What is your practice?

Also do you still practice Vipassana daily as you were instructed at retreat? At RSE you will be berated for not doing your disciplines on a daily basis. If you are now doing what you were taught at RSE; as instructed, you are creating your day, taking your walk, gridding the sky all before breakfast. Then you are doing your cards, your candle focus and perhaps some C&E before gridding the sky at night at going to slumber with a subliminal tape running through your headphones.
If on the other hand you are not doing these things, RSE perceives you as less than dedicated and you will be told this upon your return.

RSE promotes living a discipline based life while Buddhism promotes living a precept based one. Which one do you favour at this point or is it neither?

Please be advised that if you attempt to promote yourself as a Buddhist at RSE you will be both laughed at and be looked upon by students, staff and JZR as ignorant and unenlightened. All will make it their business to press you to abandon your belief as a controlling and limiting. There is only room for RSE controls and limitations at RSE. Period.

Similarly if you promote Vipassana, and/or its benefits at RSE the reaction will be the same.

The reactions you are likely to attract by these two things pales in comparison to what will occur if you declare that you have another teacher. There is absolutely NO tolerance for that at RSE. None.

A dear friend of mine was a rather new student at RSE. After her third RSE event she went to a retreat hosted by White Wind after being invited to do so by another friend of hers. Soon after that event she received notice that she was no longer welcome at RSE. There was no room for appeal (she tried). Apparently RSE spies attended the White Wind retreat and recorded the RSE students who had attended. It is my understanding that all were excused from RSE.

I do wish you all the best and sincerely hope that you find your path easy to walk.

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Unread post by Tree » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:55 pm

Pete said:
My reasoning: I dont understand it either sometimes, but that made me come to the conclusion that reasoning isnt the most efficient way to come to conclusions for as far as I can see... Hope you understand this... Critical thinking didnt get me very far, it is not 'seeing things as they are', it doesnt help you to be without judgement, nor does it help you to leave certain things unanswered... Instead it keeps you separate from your own intuition, and makes you believe that the mind has all the answers instead of trusting your own higher self..
so EMO is not quite clear yet in his thinking.
And does not believe critical thinking to be a vital life skill.
Thus sets the stage for his further answers.
Everyone is demanding answers when he clearly states he cannot do so.
Hence the indoctrination has begun. This paragraph sais it all very clearly.

He gave us his trip report which was very honest and forthright in and of itself.
Please be advised that if you attempt to promote yourself as a Buddhist at RSE you will be both laughed at and be looked upon by students, staff and JZR as ignorant and unenlightened. All will make it their business to press you to abandon your belief as a controlling and limiting. There is only room for RSE controls and limitations at RSE. Period.

Similarly if you promote Vipassana, and/or its benefits at RSE the reaction will be the same.

The reactions you are likely to attract by these two things pales in comparison to what will occur if you declare that you have another teacher. There is absolutely NO tolerance for that at RSE. None.

Very well articulated, as is the example.

Good luck Pete in your future decisions regarding RSE.
If it is any more forewarning to you,
cults are illegal to operate in Germany.
Hence RSE events taking place in Belgium and France.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:13 pm

[color=#]Okey a lively debate it is :-)

Remember though Im not Pro-RSE, Im against RSE, but did enjoy the things Ive learned at my retreat, and Im in it for the conversation...

Lets sort things out Whatc
hamacallit:[/color]

I didn't ask you to leave; my post wasn't about that. I asked you a sincere question. I am still asking a sincere question... What do you expect .... personally .... as an outcome of your being a student in RSE ? [color=#]I expect to learn about things I didnt know about, is that wrong because this is a Cult and I should only learn from the ones that are not a Cult? I was eager to see that place or myself, like posted before, And have the right to do so..[/color]. I expect that in your answer, would be your purpose for going (no matter if it is in Yelm or elsewhere...that's not the point). Why do YOU post, when you are posting amidst people who have chosen to stop going, and who believe JZ Knight is a fraud ? [color=#]I post because I enjoy conversation, I like to see your point of view, when you ask me why I post, that kind of makes me think I am not welcome to share my opinion, if so, I wont post anymore... [/color]

I don't think you are my enemy. I'm just really confounded as to why you admit, as you just said again, that you DO see the "red flags", so to speak, and yet you would even desire to have such a place, with such a "teacher" as the point of reference for your spiritual growth ? [color=#]What is wrong to go and hear what the man has to say, I do that with all the so called teachers, writers, people that have got something to say that interests me, who are you to judge about that being not done? Its my own choice[/color] Especially when there are very loving, much more positive alternatives to teach you "new age thought" ?

You can engage any number of new age teachers (such as Lazaris...and I'm not suggesting that, but making a comparison), who will teach the same INFO, which you will have to apply in YOUR life to "see results", without... [color=#]Again, I am free to see for myself, make my own descisions, agree that there are others, and will see them too if they are interesting enough to hear them out, dont tell me I shouldnt see Ramtha if you did it yourself all those years...[/color]

1) EVER engaging in "XXX" rated, sexually explicit talk including IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

2) disrespect. Who will show you immense respect and kindness, all the while, teaching . (You don't have to taste dill pickles to know ice cream is sweet .... do YOU?)

3) needing/choosing/wanting to resort to drunken debauchery in order to deliver a teaching because it can only be best done when your "veils are down" . (bologna to that lie)

4) delivering teachings under the influence of alcohol, IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

5) physically assaulting adults on a number of occasions, for ANY reason.

[color=#]Whats that all about? You know I already stated that I dont agree with that? How many times do I have to tell you that? [/color]

Yes, I am being honest, EMO ! WHY would you choose that ESPECIALLY when there are alternatives if you choose the new age thought as where you place your "faith" ? I don't care if you're Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, New Age. I'm just questioning about these points, no matter WHAT the "religion" would be. I'd ask the same questions of anyone if their religion/spiritual teachings included the items listed above. There are other places that you can go, where you may not have to feel like it is a cult, or disagree with their policies, etc. [color=#]Again: Where I go is not up to you to descide, I wanted to see that place, if you dont mind, agree that there are others to see as well, and do know you had very bad experiences with RSE, but does that mean I cant check it out for myself???[/color]

I know full well how easy it is to set these things aside, and continue on in RSE. I DID IT for years !!! That is why I am asking the questions. A number of us answered those questions later on, and those are the types of questions that we had to come to terms with, the "red flags", that caused the egg to crack, so we started to see the light of day outside of that RSE darkness...and we left. You're not even "invested" in years of the teachings yet, so why not make a more loving choice, earlier on ? [color=#]Actually, I did agree with those 'red flags', dont see why you think Im still continuing RSE, I stated I dont want to spend so much money on RSE, I already had my insights, and the only point of interest would be a one-on-one with Ramtha, because I was hoping for that all along[/color]

[color=#]Could someone enlighten me about getting those colours right?

Im sorry if I attacked you with my DONT monologue :-) I had too much people telling me what to do in my life and I felt like you were telling me what to do and what not to do, so I appologise for tha
t ;-)

Pete[/color]

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:31 pm

I appreciate your posting Pete - it's led me to some interesting thoughts and perspectives. And I do believe you came here sincerely in question. You must forgive us "Mothers"/Brothers/Sisters = your "Elders" re the ramtha experience. It was 90percent predictable that you would get suckered. And you did. And we recognize the pattern 'cause we've been there/done that. And we understand your sudden defensiveness... 'cause we've been there/done that.
My questions were sincere, and based on my experience. And I really do want to know which accent ramtha is using.
The interesting thing about all "the disciplines" is that pre-1988 Ramtha was ADAMANT that "disciplines" only taught you disciplines and were essentially worthless. He made that clear in every Dialogue and Intensive. And, there is not a "discipline" used by Ramtha that isn't from somewhere else. And, one cannot successfully do any "discipline" if psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, and physically setup to believe you won't do it right/enough/passionately enough/enough... ... And, just recently I was shown videos of Thich Nhat Hahn teaching his mindfulness walking -- seems pretty clear jz took that meditation and f...ed it/raped it/stripped it of heart/Soul/Truth and called it the Neighborhood Walk. And the painful irony is, as with all the "disciplines", people are setup to use the discipline to GET something - whether a Toyota truck or Enlightenment... ... The fact is that at the heart essence of any true Sacred/Spiritual path it is the letting go of our desire/need/ to GET that allows us to receive the abundance of the Universe.
A marvelous metaphor used by someone here a year or so ago is how emf is a warning of a ditch in the road up ahead... ... you've been warned ... you fell in and you find value, it seems, in being there. So Be It. We here don't.
I didn't see/read/sense any attack on or rejection of your posts in her initial response to you. Again I find your response interesting - and, as indicated, classic 'ramsteresque' response. Nevertheless - I sure don't want to this message board to deteriorate again into accusations judgments by regular posters and/or whining 'if you don't like me I'm gonna take my toys and go home' bs. The irony is - it is our task here on emf to do our best to warn others of the dangers of ramthaland ---- and it is NOT the task of posters to in anyway promote ramthaland. Kinda like if you're playing basketball, running is part of the game, but it's not football - so tackling is not allowed.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:44 pm

Opinions need not to be respected on EMF, but to respectfully disagree with another opinion is...!
Just as...All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. [color=#]Dont agree with that, all people deserve respect, without any doubt, not all ideas do, I think you are wrong about that, you can disagree on an idea, but you should at least have respect for that...[/color]
Watcha and the other posters have asked many direct questions to you, only to have them breezed past with little consequence. Now you have resorted to diverting attention elsewhere with unfounded accusations,
such as..
So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, .
[color=#]I find it childish to assume that one knows what I am thinking, to being told I shouldt go to RSE, to be told I should go to other places, to assume I accept Ramtha as my teacher, I never stated I did, and therefor I found that to be not open-minded, thats just assuming things[/color]
Hopefully questions and disagreements respectfully posed on EMF will challenge our opinions and observations.
This is often the key needed to unlock an imprisoned heart and ignorant mindset.
you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board.
Just not so Pete, there are several fundamental differences of opinion, intentions and philosophies going on here.
I hope this can be explored more directly. [color=#]I DO agree with almost everything you people shared with me, the one thing I stated, is that I enjoyed the things Ive learned, and the disciplines Ive did, all the other things Ive been agreeing on with the members all along, if not, I would like be quoted on that...[/color]
On another note..
Have you spoken with any RSE staff members about your concerns?
[color=#]Only spoke with the staff briefly during my retreat, the times I did, they were convincing me to stay...[/color]
Or mentioned EMF at all? Either in Yelm or in your home country?
[color=#]Didnt mention EMF at RSE, but have talked about EMF with my friends, shared all the bunker and suicide stories with them, and they all feel sorry about that place, so my enviroment knows what RSE is all about...[/color]

I was looking forward to meeting you in Yelm,
I offered to meet you anytime of your choosing, yet you declined once you arrived in Yelm, not even to call.
[color=#]Hey, I emailed you and said I was arriving late, and suggested to do so after the retreat, can post that email on the board if you want...[/color]
I am sure we would have have enjoyed our cup of tea.,not only to chat about these RSE issues, but as fellow musicians,
Perhaps.... to have shown you my music studio nor far from Yelm..
[color=#]I was really looking forward to that as well David, I became Ill after that stupid taco, and slept most of my time at a motel, untill I had to go to seatac, I agree that I should have given a phone call, thats the least I could do, and I appologise for that, sincerely... I felt really bad in my stomach...[/color]
Did you stay warm during those icy cold nights ?
[color=#]I slept inside all of the time, had a motel, and slept in the kantine at RSE. [/color]
Who knows.....Our meeting may have saved you from Taco Bell and "RSE's poisoning of the soul..............!
Chuckle. [color=#]I had a lift to my motel after RSE, and buyed dinner for the one that was driving me, he insisted to go to taco time, while I wanted to go to a proper restaurant, RSE poisoning the soul? Im not going to answer that, and yes, I would have been better of meeting you, and regret that...[/color]

But I also understand the intensity and time consuming environment and demands of attending an RSE event..
Once the ?Ramtha? wool is pulled over one?s eyes, and that warm fuzzy feeling of "knowingness" takes hold..
the outside world soon shrinks to insignificance..
I advise you to question your ?intuitiveness? with your stated gift of objectivity.
Intuitiveness is not infallible, especially to a master of deception such as Judith.
As for you are?.
90% sure that it actually is Ramtha inside JZ Knight.
They are merely two sides of the same coin, a fool?s gold.
Judith Darleen Hampton is still buried beneath her terrible delusions, awaiting her own 'One fine Morn".
[color=#]You could be right you know, didnt had the chance to meet her, instead, my intuition said, thats not JZ...[/color]

There is no ?Do not ask me? prerequisite for posting on EMF, so please grant the same courtesy to our other EMF posters.
The fact is you are a current RSE member, with the intention to ?keep one foot in and one foot out??! This is a very common attitude held by every stanch RSE member I know, yet, in reality..
They have been snared hook, line and sinker leaving behind a trail of broken trusts and hearts.
[color=#]Whats wrong with that? Because I like to keep my options open, I will leave a trail of broken trusts and hearts? If I ever want to go back and see Ramtha, whats wrong inn doing so? You already judged about me David, please, dont do that

I will recommend to the moderators that this entire thread be moved to the
"RSE Current Students Debate Forum"

May the Muse be with us...
[color=#]May the Muse be with Pete![/color]

David.

Muse - Wikipedia,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse[/quote]

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Unread post by Tree » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:47 pm

Could someone enlighten me about getting those colours right?

pete-
highlight the area you want to quote or make in another color.
in the font color box, just click the color you want.
that's it.
then continue typing.

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Enlighten me objectively
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:50 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:
AD60 said, "And why should the healthy intelligent people be encouraged to be participant in a cult, but not the unhealthy? Everyone, intelligent stupid centered crazy drug free and drug addicted have been harmed by their participation. Should only people in good physical condition cut their arm off because they can handle it better than the physically ill or anemic? .... I just don't understand your reasoning. "
Thanks, AD. I'm glad to know that I am not alone in not understanding EMO's reasoning.

Respect it, but disagree with it. Does anyone on here, other than Swamibinton, agree with EMO's reasoning ?

We've seen this pattern before, where the hard, straightforward questions are asked, BUT NOT ANSWERED, and then the person that asks, is attacked.

Now, we're seeing the pattern again.

I understand that it's very difficult to look at the issues that I've pointed out, and then find a way to justify attending, thus SUPPORTING, RSE. It creates cognitive dissonance.

That's MY opinion

;-) .
I dont like to be told by others what I should do or not do, I am free to explore for my own, ask me your questions, I will answer directly.. ;-)

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:56 pm

ex wrote:thanks for posting again after your event.when i read your post i started to write back and got lost.the emberessing thing is i would have argued the same way after my beginner.i was convinced too that there is someone else at home in jz.but watching her closer over the years and especialy in not mandatory events or events targeted to real in new flesh[or cash] ramtha got too manny menapause houswife troubles. [color=#][co[/color]lor=red]LOL[/color] far off a warriour mind.the show is impressive.not showing peorsonal up is just to make you strive forward to be part of bc.you will find the desire growing in you to come back to restore the spirituall uplifting feeling you get through all the "work".thats the first programing.whatever smart reason you bring up for it it might not be your dessison it might be the introduced programing. [color=#]Im only doing the walk and candlefocus, my meditation is something more important than C&E[/color] good that you saw the ramthter answer to all comunication.but make no mistake jzr might say: think for yourself.but its pretty clear:you dont disscuss the ram.no cult but every aspect of a cult r present at rse.the guys you describe[bc people quoting r all the time the waking sobeit guy]might have started like you and r just products of linguistic programing.please forgive this metapher but its just like watching a child playing around the stove. you know it will get burned you try to shout warnings but you know you cant prevent the burned fingers [the expierience]i wish you all the best.after leaving rse i also contemplated how it would have been just to come for a beginner and maybe some events rse might have kept its magig and r might be still my hero.the beginner was the only worthwile thing.[lots of exercises and tools]but it was not worth staying so prolonged...good luck
[color=#]Agree on that, I would go back to have a long talk with good old Ramtha, but have already got my insights, and am not willing to spend a ridiculous ammount of money for an event[/color]

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:07 pm

DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...

EMO,

In concern for the directions you have taken in support of your position please accept the following in the kindness and understanding with which it is intended.

Mr. Goenka is a very great teacher and has dedicated himself to teaching people a basic meditation technique. Vipassana is often associated with Buddhism but a practitioner of the technique is not necessarily a practitioner of Buddhism. [color=#]Its THE meditation technique, teached by Boeddha itself, 2500 years ago, I live my life according those values, am a vegetarian, live up to the ideals of boeddha... am not a perfect one, but concider myself to be a buddhist to a certain level[/color]

One is not required to become a Buddhist to attend the retreats hosted by Mr. Goenka's organization and if I remember correctly, he does not define himself as a Buddhist.

I am interested to learn what is your Buddhist tradition and whose interpretation of the dharma do you align yourself with. What is your practice?

Also do you still practice Vipassana daily as you were instructed at retreat? At RSE you will be berated for not doing your disciplines on a daily basis. If you are now doing what you were taught at RSE; as instructed, you are creating your day, taking your walk, gridding the sky all before breakfast. Then you are doing your cards, your candle focus and perhaps some C&E before gridding the sky at night at going to slumber with a subliminal tape running through your headphones.
If on the other hand you are not doing these things, RSE perceives you as less than dedicated and you will be told this upon your return.

RSE promotes living a discipline based life while Buddhism promotes living a precept based one. Which one do you favour at this point or is it neither?
[color=#]I frequently told all of the Ramsters that Ramtha shouldnt mock the wisdom inside Buddhism, they didnt want to hear about it, felt sorry for them[/color]

Please be advised that if you attempt to promote yourself as a Buddhist at RSE you will be both laughed at and be looked upon by students, staff and JZR as ignorant and unenlightened. All will make it their business to press you to abandon your belief as a controlling and limiting. There is only room for RSE controls and limitations at RSE. Period. [color=#]I noticed that very well, still I kept saying I believe in the qualities of having compassion, and love all of gods creation....[/color]

Similarly if you promote Vipassana, and/or its benefits at RSE the reaction will be the same.
[color=#]I have the freedom to believe in what I want, but dont forget, so do they...[/color]

The reactions you are likely to attract by these two things pales in comparison to what will occur if you declare that you have another teacher. There is absolutely NO tolerance for that at RSE. None. [color=#]Then Ramtha has no choice then be moved to the 'intolorant and bad attitude list'[/color]

A dear friend of mine was a rather new student at RSE. After her third RSE event she went to a retreat hosted by White Wind after being invited to do so by another friend of hers. Soon after that event she received notice that she was no longer welcome at RSE. There was no room for appeal (she tried). Apparently RSE spies attended the White Wind retreat and recorded the RSE students who had attended. It is my understanding that all were excused from RSE.[color=#] Again this proves that they are quite close minded on enlightenment, and wish to make money out of it[/color]

I do wish you all the best and sincerely hope that you find your path easy to walk.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:21 pm

I appreciate your posting Pete - it's led me to some interesting thoughts and perspectives. And I do believe you came here sincerely in question. You must forgive us "Mothers"/Brothers/Sisters = your "Elders" re the ramtha experience. It was 90percent predictable that you would get suckered. And you did. And we recognize the pattern 'cause we've been there/done that. [color=#]Appreciate the posting as well, and led me to much interesting perspectives as well...
And we understand your sudden defensiveness... 'cause we've been there/done that.
My questions were sincere, and based on my experience. And I really do want to know which accent ramtha is using. [color=#]He uses the accent like in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqUcrnCiEzM[/color]
The interesting thing about all "the disciplines" is that pre-1988 Ramtha was ADAMANT that "disciplines" only taught you disciplines and were essentially worthless. He made that clear in every Dialogue and Intensive. And, there is not a "discipline" used by Ramtha that isn't from somewhere else. And, one cannot successfully do any "discipline" if psychologically, emotionally, spiritually, and physically setup to believe you won't do it right/enough/passionately enough/enough... ... And, just recently I was shown videos of Thich Nhat Hahn [color=#]Have read alot of books he wrote, did you know he also charges a rediculous ammount of money for a workshop in his Plumvillage, in Europe?[/color] teaching his mindfulness walking -- seems pretty clear jz took that meditation and f...ed it/raped it/stripped it of heart/Soul/Truth and called it the Neighborhood Walk. [color=#]Probably yes, but got it copywrited before he could[/color] And the painful irony is, as with all the "disciplines", people are setup to use the discipline to GET something - whether a Toyota truck or Enlightenment... ... The fact is that at the heart essence of any true Sacred/Spiritual path it is the letting go of our desire/need/ to GET that allows us to receive the abundance of the Universe.
A marvelous metaphor used by someone here a year or so ago is how emf is a warning of a ditch in the road up ahead... ... you've been warned ... you fell in and you find value, it seems, in being there. So Be It. We here don't.
I didn't see/read/sense any attack on or rejection of your posts in her initial response to you. Again I find your response interesting - and, as indicated, classic 'ramsteresque' response. Nevertheless - I sure don't want to this message board to deteriorate again into accusations judgments by regular posters and/or whining 'if you don't like me I'm gonna take my toys and go home' bs. The irony is - it is our task here on emf to do our best to warn others of the dangers of ramthaland ---- and it is NOT the task of posters to in anyway promote ramthaland. Kinda like if you're playing basketball, running is part of the game, but it's not football - so tackling is not allowed.[color=#] Okay I see your point, but I have been warned plenty of times, and I think that Ive made myself clear that I am not a Ramster, I hope we can end that assumtion, I am someone who likes to expand his mind, and is free to explore that place, Im not crazy enough to follow those at RSE, lets end that illusion...[/color]

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:34 pm

so EMO is not quite clear yet in his thinking.
[color=#]Shame on you :shock:
And does not believe critical thinking to be a vital life skill.
[color=#]I had more of my intuition, but dont reject critical thinking either...
Thus sets the stage for his further answers.
Everyone is demanding answers when he clearly states he cannot do so.
[color=#]Hey, what are you on about? Are we in court? :lol:
Hence the indoctrination has begun. This paragraph sais it all very clearly.
[color=#]Tree, did you had too much applejuice or something? THE INDOCTRINATION HAS BEGUN... Lol!!!

He gave us his trip report which was very honest and forthright in and of itself.

Please be advised that if you attempt to promote yourself as a Buddhist at RSE you will be both laughed at and be looked upon by students, staff and JZR as ignorant and unenlightened. All will make it their business to press you to abandon your belief as a controlling and limiting. There is only room for RSE controls and limitations at RSE. Period.

Similarly if you promote Vipassana, and/or its benefits at RSE the reaction will be the same.

The reactions you are likely to attract by these two things pales in comparison to what will occur if you declare that you have another teacher. There is absolutely NO tolerance for that at RSE. None.


Very well articulated, as is the example.
[color=#]In that case, THEY LOST THEMSELVE A STUDENT AT RSE, I REFUSE TO GIVE UP MY TEACHER AT MY MEDITATION CENTRE IN BELGIUM!!!!!!!

Good luck Pete in your future decisions regarding RSE.
If it is any more forewarning to you,
cults are illegal to operate in Germany.
Hence RSE events taking place in Belgium and France.
[color=#]Yeah, they learned from their mistakes during the second world war... [/color]

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Tree wrote:
Could someone enlighten me about getting those colours right?

pete-
highlight the area you want to quote or make in another color.
in the font color box, just click the color you want.
that's it.
then continue typing.
When I select and coulour something, the text fades out, and when I click somewhere, there appears a color box in the sentence Ive selected, trying to get it right... thanks for the tip...

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:50 pm

Dear EMF,

Hope you realize now that I agree with you on state of affairs regarding RSE, but that I like you to respect the fact that I am free to explore that place, to get the good things out of it, and to have my own opinion about it...

I am really happy to read your postings, enjoy the conversations, and had a lot of information out of it...

I also like to apologise to Whatcha, sorry if I overreacted, that has nothing to do with you, instead it has to to with to much people in my life telling me what to think, or what to do, or where to go...
And another SORRY to David, I regret the fact I didnt see you in Yelm, but I was too sick to get out of my Motel...

I have my own opinion, and that deserves respect, the same way I respect your opinion in here...

Dont be worrying about me becoming a Ramster, If I would have that intention, I wouldnt be posting in here anymore...

So hope we sorted this out and can continue like we started...

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by ordinarymind » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:00 pm

Hi Pete ..and thanks for posting on EMF. I think I understand the desire to go to RSE to see for yourself what it is like ?and I appreciate you telling us about your experiences there and for being open to continuing the dialogue.

Having said that, I want to be clear that I hold the same opinions and beliefs as Watcha and other ex-RSE students that have posted here (and not with SwamiB) ?.I would say, for myself anyway, I am not open-minded about RSE ?in fact, I am very closed minded about RSE ?based on my long years of experience there as a student and my recent years recovering and re-finding myself and re-creating a life.

Now Ramtha/jz would say that the only thing that can?t be changed is a closed mind and he/she encourages students to think they are being open minded by being open to his/her teachings ?and closed to the thoughts of the ?villagers? or to the thoughts of any ?students who just couldn?t do the work? (that?s how he/she labels those of us that support EMF). ?well, where am I going with this ?. I guess I?m just wanting to say that I am firm in my belief that RSE does not deliver what it promises, people?s lives have been devastated by their commitment to the place ?and people, like me and many who post on here, have given huge amounts of their life resources, time, energy and money to RSE that, in my opinion, could have been much better spent on dealing with the real problems in the world ?like the environment, poverty, violence ?.instead of some mistaken notion that we could expand our brains by doing ?rock work?, or running at each other across the field, or proclaiming loudly to all that ?for as long as I can remember ?.blah blah? .. ..or ?.

So anyway, here?s my point ?.is it ethical to support a place that does not practice what it teaches, a place that, in fact, harms others? ?is it ethical to do that because we think we are finding a few good things in it and we enjoy our experience at the ?ranch?? Pete, this isn?t meant as a criticism of you but it is a question I want any newcomers out there to think about before deciding to attend a beginner event .. . and certainly before deciding to go to a follow up ..or ?one more event? .. ?so to those of you out there who are in a place of curiosity about RSE .. and are thinking about going there to ?take what you want and leave the rest?, now that you have read what some long time students have experienced and observed at RSE, can you really justify supporting the place?

Phew, just wanted to get that off my chest ?
OrdinaryMind

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Unread post by EMFWebmaster » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:11 pm

Could someone enlighten me about getting those colours right?
A place to practice posting on EMF.

'EMF' Message Board :: View topic -
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/phpbb3/p ... .php?t=715

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Unread post by G2G » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:27 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:
AD60 said, "And why should the healthy intelligent people be encouraged to be participant in a cult, but not the unhealthy? Everyone, intelligent stupid centered crazy drug free and drug addicted have been harmed by their participation. Should only people in good physical condition cut their arm off because they can handle it better than the physically ill or anemic? .... I just don't understand your reasoning. "
Thanks, AD. I'm glad to know that I am not alone in not understanding EMO's reasoning.

Respect it, but disagree with it. Does anyone on here, other than Swamibinton, agree with EMO's reasoning ?

We've seen this pattern before, where the hard, straightforward questions are asked, BUT NOT ANSWERED, and then the person that asks, is attacked.

Now, we're seeing the pattern again.

I understand that it's very difficult to look at the issues that I've pointed out, and then find a way to justify attending, thus SUPPORTING, RSE. It creates cognitive dissonance.

That's MY opinion

;-) .
::raises hand:: Agrees with Whatcha and David. The pattern is clear to some, yet not to all. EMO - ask yourself why you feel attacked? One person was simply asking objective questions. You were not attacked, from an objective standpoint. These are real and difficult questions to answer. It might hit an area those who are enamoured with RSE find a bit discomforting. Look within and keep asking. ~aum mani padme hum~
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:06 pm

EMO states: I would go back to have a long talk with good old Ramtha, but have already got my insights, and am not willing to spend a ridiculous ammount of money"

Actually, JZ was selling "time" with one-on-one with her Ramtha persona. I don't know what the going rate is these days. I remember thinking, too, that there was someone else behind those eyes; that after hearing JZ give a talk onstage, no way could that be the same "presence." At my last event, I saw something perhaps not many did. It was very cold and muddy, and many people were ill. I had to flee my RV in the wee hours when the carbon monoxide detector went off due to the propane heater the RV rental owners had placed inside, and wound up dragging a blanket and my belongings through the rain and mud into the great hall. What a mess at night, and people were coughing everywhere. It was difficult to find my own spot without stepping on anyone. Oh, and the incessant subliminal frog/cricket/stream tape playing drove me to putting in my "flight" earplugs. I didn't "manifest" this and wouldn't even think of having a carbon monoxide problem in an RV. I could have died. I digress (as I often do, sorry). Next morning, wakeup and staff shouting to get outside to grid, no breakfast that day, and then onto the field for "the walk" and field work. Only after that could anyone eat. (I admit I ate an energy bar I had with me - sorry, not going to let my blood sugar drop "just because" someone tells me not to eat). Pfui to such an imposition. :lol: We finally get indoors, and are told we're going to do fieldwork again. So everyone is gearing up, duct-taping waterproof pants to waders, you know the drill (or did you have good weather and a dry stream?) Then a teacher runs in at the end of the hall shouting, "Our teacher is here..Our teacher is here!! Out to the field quickly!" Everyone hurries, sick as they are and runs onto the muddy, slick field. There was JZ dressed in a "feminine" coat" wearing "feminine" boots. I wasn't sure if it was her JZ face or Ramtha face at that point. We instructed to do the "walk." Everyone begins marching down the field, babbling aloud with myriads, "I have always been...(insert whatever here)." I walk directly past and in front of JZ/Ramtha, get down to the end where the creek is and walk right through the water, where the duct tape fails me and my boots fill up with water. People were still trickling onto the field, some mothers pushing baby carriages. JZ/Ramtha shouts for everyone to come upfield quickly (try running on slick inches-thick mud with a couple inches of water in your boots!). She then shouts to those who are moving slowly, "Are you well? Are you WELL!?!!" Then, people are called into the group and are savagely admonished by JZ who seemed to decide to take on the Ramtha persona. "If you could see your 'bands,' you would cry!" Then she went on about how wonderful her 'advanced' students were (well, blue college students were in the group then and there, too..ahem).

So now, she calls for those who are "ill" to come to the front. A small group of people did. One was an elderly woman with an O2 tank. Another was a middle-aged woman who used a cane to walk, and had some type of paralysis, it appeared on one side of her body. JZ as Ramtha then instructs this group to "look at her and use her mind," and she does this while moving downfield and back up again. She admonishes one woman for being overweight. Then she instructs the woman with the cane to drop it, and "Use my mind" and walk the length of the field. The woman walked while dragging one side of her body. It was very disturbing and painful to watch, with JZ as Ramtha calling out again and again, "Use my mind." People were clapping and saying "how beautiful," not realizing this poor woman dragging herself down the field was *not* any better at all, and I was very concerned she could slip in the mud and injure herself.

Now here is what I saw, being up front. While this woman was struggling to walk without her cane, JZ turned her head away for a moment and had a very pained look, almost as though she knew what was occurring was hurtful. I saw that look, and THAT look was NOT her Ramtha act. That was JZ. Then she turned her head back and became her "Ramtha" act again.

The accent would change from a pseudo whatever to southern to no detectable accent all in the same teaching. JZ as Ramtha even slipped up, using her well-known "Oh my heck" when she was supposed to be Ramtha.

One doesn't *see* these things in the early stages. One is too caught up in the "euphoria" induced by C&E and "I got my card! It works!" kind of thing.

One thing you might find interesting, EMO, is something Joe has, a newspaper article. Joe? (I think I still owe you money for this), the reporter who went in and you "exit-counseled" prior to his going in - that article is truly eye-opening. EMO - imo, it could be quite an interesting read for you.

Do believe in YOU - Ramtha is an act - you are a real person. Keep the blinders off. (tore mine off on the field and dropped those $29 blinders in the mud) Never went back and although it took awhile, I've "regained" the spirituality I had PRIOR to RSE. I allow my compassion and know that the manner in which we create our reality is through hard work, setting goals, not by simply wishing it to be so.

~Aum~
8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:10 pm

Enlighten me objectively wrote:DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...
EMO - I've studied Buddhism, as well. Ask yourself, is this response the manner in which an individual following the teaching of Siddartha would respond? Something to think about.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:13 pm

[color=#]In that case, THEY LOST THEMSELVE A STUDENT AT RSE, I REFUSE TO GIVE UP MY TEACHER AT MY MEDITATION CENTRE IN BELGIUM!!!!!!!

Pete, this is spot on. One can have *no* other teacher if one is in RSE. I witnessed a woman taken down by another student due to this. The woman who was verbally admonished was one whose *profession* included that of having another involved in teaching her. I don't know the details. I know what I heard and that was, "you cannot have another teacher except Ramtha."
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:23 pm

ordinarymind wrote:Hi Pete ..and thanks for posting on EMF. I think I understand the desire to go to RSE to see for yourself what it is like ?and I appreciate you telling us about your experiences there and for being open to continuing the dialogue.

Having said that, I want to be clear that I hold the same opinions and beliefs as Watcha and other ex-RSE students that have posted here (and not with SwamiB) ?.I would say, for myself anyway, I am not open-minded about RSE ?in fact, I am very closed minded about RSE ?based on my long years of experience there as a student and my recent years recovering and re-finding myself and re-creating a life.

Now Ramtha/jz would say that the only thing that can?t be changed is a closed mind and he/she encourages students to think they are being open minded by being open to his/her teachings ?and closed to the thoughts of the ?villagers? or to the thoughts of any ?students who just couldn?t do the work? (that?s how he/she labels those of us that support EMF). ?well, where am I going with this ?. I guess I?m just wanting to say that I am firm in my belief that RSE does not deliver what it promises, people?s lives have been devastated by their commitment to the place ?and people, like me and many who post on here, have given huge amounts of their life resources, time, energy and money to RSE that, in my opinion, could have been much better spent on dealing with the real problems in the world ?like the environment, poverty, violence ?.instead of some mistaken notion that we could expand our brains by doing ?rock work?, or running at each other across the field, or proclaiming loudly to all that ?for as long as I can remember ?.blah blah? .. ..or ?.

So anyway, here?s my point ?.is it ethical to support a place that does not practice what it teaches, a place that, in fact, harms others? ?is it ethical to do that because we think we are finding a few good things in it and we enjoy our experience at the ?ranch?? Pete, this isn?t meant as a criticism of you but it is a question I want any newcomers out there to think about before deciding to attend a beginner event .. . and certainly before deciding to go to a follow up ..or ?one more event? .. ?so to those of you out there who are in a place of curiosity about RSE .. and are thinking about going there to ?take what you want and leave the rest?, now that you have read what some long time students have experienced and observed at RSE, can you really justify supporting the place?

Phew, just wanted to get that off my chest ?
OrdinaryMind
Well, I do appreciate that as well, I am happy to share thoughts, and will keep posting as long as we can maintain that open dialogue.

The thing is, that school has done more harm than good, and they are still doing that, thats what makes other people upset, and thats validly. But I cant close that place. I live in Europe. What happens next is, and I am aware of that, is that when I touch those 'traumatic experiences' here on the board, by stating that I did had some nice things, some good experiences out of it, most people in here dont want me to go where they have been before, and thats well appreciated, my experience wont be the same as yours, I wont go that far, I try to explain myself that I have no intention at all to continue in RSE (Except having a cup of tea with El Ramtha, out of curiousity), furthermore, that I agree with your point of view on RSE, and still there is so much concern, even suspicion, that I somehow will, Yes Ill put their techniques to the test, and will find out for myself if they work (candlefocus, walk) How am I to say if they are worth while otherwise? Would you like to have me telling the truth, or do you want me to agree with you all, and secretly think otherwise? When I had some good things out of it, I'll make that statement honestly, and I'm honest about the downside as well... Someone ought to save those poor souls, but I cant be of any assistance over here, except maybe share the things Ive learned here on EMF, and share about the close-mindedness Ive witnessed in Yelm... Its not up to me to come to action... Thats up to the ones that are able to do something, if I can help, gladly...

Then I want you to concider the fact that I dont support RSE, I would be carefull to suggest it to someone I know, be honest about the good things, but as well be honest about 'the huge' list of bad things, how can you still be saying that Im supporting RSE, when I repeatedly stated Im against their policy, way of handeling matters, abusing people, sucking money out of them,... Hey, I even said somewhere that I would tatoo 'RSE is a Cult!' on their forehead if they are going, to make clear I will inform them as best as I can... Pete is not, did not, or wont be supporting RSE... "For as long as I can remember, I have always been supporting compassion, love, EMF, vegetarian food, free parking spaces, hypnotoad, living above the ground instead of underneath, ..." You see?

Thanks for your post, point taken, and am happy we got the debate on the right tracks again...

Cheers,

Pete

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Unread post by Tree » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:34 pm

"For as long as I can remember, I have always been supporting compassion, love, EMF, vegetarian food, free parking spaces, hypnotoad, living above the ground instead of underneath, ..."

bwahahah! :lol:

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:42 pm

::raises hand:: Agrees with Whatcha and David. The pattern is clear to some, yet not to all. EMO - ask yourself why you feel attacked? One person was simply asking objective questions. You were not attacked, from an objective standpoint. These are real and difficult questions to answer. It might hit an area those who are enamoured with RSE find a bit discomforting. Look within and keep asking. ~aum mani padme hum

Simply asking objective questions? Let me quote that:

but with all sincerity, I wonder why you are still posting on here, when you are really a convinced, active RSE student ? What outcome do you expect ongoing posts to achieve ? We are surely not going to become "convinced" of why we ought to be in RSE.

Is that an objective question? Would you feel attacked in my place? I sorted this out with Watcha, and concider it to be understood now (both sides)...

Then this:

What do you think RSE can do for YOU, that YOU cannot do for YOURSELF?

Objective would be: I think that RSE isnt the only place where you can gain that kind of wisdom, and surely, all those things they teach you can find out for yourself, by reading books, or attending other, less expensive workshops...

So yes, I felt kind of attacked by those questions, and after I apologised about my reaction towards Watcha... So lets concider that matter handled..

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:00 pm

G2G wrote:EMO states: I would go back to have a long talk with good old Ramtha, but have already got my insights, and am not willing to spend a ridiculous ammount of money"

Actually, JZ was selling "time" with one-on-one with her Ramtha persona. I don't know what the going rate is these days. I remember thinking, too, that there was someone else behind those eyes; that after hearing JZ give a talk onstage, no way could that be the same "presence." At my last event, I saw something perhaps not many did. It was very cold and muddy, and many people were ill. I had to flee my RV in the wee hours when the carbon monoxide detector went off due to the propane heater the RV rental owners had placed inside, and wound up dragging a blanket and my belongings through the rain and mud into the great hall. What a mess at night, and people were coughing everywhere. It was difficult to find my own spot without stepping on anyone. Oh, and the incessant subliminal frog/cricket/stream tape playing drove me to putting in my "flight" earplugs. I didn't "manifest" this and wouldn't even think of having a carbon monoxide problem in an RV. I could have died. I digress (as I often do, sorry). Next morning, wakeup and staff shouting to get outside to grid, no breakfast that day, and then onto the field for "the walk" and field work. Only after that could anyone eat. (I admit I ate an energy bar I had with me - sorry, not going to let my blood sugar drop "just because" someone tells me not to eat). Pfui to such an imposition. :lol: We finally get indoors, and are told we're going to do fieldwork again. So everyone is gearing up, duct-taping waterproof pants to waders, you know the drill (or did you have good weather and a dry stream?) Then a teacher runs in at the end of the hall shouting, "Our teacher is here..Our teacher is here!! Out to the field quickly!" Everyone hurries, sick as they are and runs onto the muddy, slick field. There was JZ dressed in a "feminine" coat" wearing "feminine" boots. I wasn't sure if it was her JZ face or Ramtha face at that point. We instructed to do the "walk." Everyone begins marching down the field, babbling aloud with myriads, "I have always been...(insert whatever here)." I walk directly past and in front of JZ/Ramtha, get down to the end where the creek is and walk right through the water, where the duct tape fails me and my boots fill up with water. People were still trickling onto the field, some mothers pushing baby carriages. JZ/Ramtha shouts for everyone to come upfield quickly (try running on slick inches-thick mud with a couple inches of water in your boots!). She then shouts to those who are moving slowly, "Are you well? Are you WELL!?!!" Then, people are called into the group and are savagely admonished by JZ who seemed to decide to take on the Ramtha persona. "If you could see your 'bands,' you would cry!" Then she went on about how wonderful her 'advanced' students were (well, blue college students were in the group then and there, too..ahem). [color=#]Agree with you on that, those are Cult-Blitzkrieg-tactics that I have witnessed as well, but they need to do that, otherwise you would get some spare time to think it over

So now, she calls for those who are "ill" to come to the front. A small group of people did. One was an elderly woman with an O2 tank. Another was a middle-aged woman who used a cane to walk, and had some type of paralysis, it appeared on one side of her body. JZ as Ramtha then instructs this group to "look at her and use her mind," and she does this while moving downfield and back up again. She admonishes one woman for being overweight. Then she instructs the woman with the cane to drop it, and "Use my mind" and walk the length of the field. The woman walked while dragging one side of her body. It was very disturbing and painful to watch, with JZ as Ramtha calling out again and again, "Use my mind." People were clapping and saying "how beautiful," not realizing this poor woman dragging herself down the field was *not* any better at all, and I was very concerned she could slip in the mud and injure herself. [color=#]I wander what would have happened if she actually had hurt herself, makes me shiver...

Now here is what I saw, being up front. While this woman was struggling to walk without her cane, JZ turned her head away for a moment and had a very pained look, almost as though she knew what was occurring was hurtful. I saw that look, and THAT look was NOT her Ramtha act. That was JZ. Then she turned her head back and became her "Ramtha" act again. [color=#]Didnt witness her that closely, but if you say so, I believe you...

The accent would change from a pseudo whatever to southern to no detectable accent all in the same teaching. JZ as Ramtha even slipped up, using her well-known "Oh my heck" when she was supposed to be Ramtha.

One doesn't *see* these things in the early stages. One is too caught up in the "euphoria" induced by C&E and "I got my card! It works!" kind of thing.

One thing you might find interesting, EMO, is something Joe has, a newspaper article. Joe? (I think I still owe you money for this), the reporter who went in and you "exit-counseled" prior to his going in - that article is truly eye-opening. EMO - imo, it could be quite an interesting read for you. [color=#]Bring it on!!!! Love to read that!

Do believe in YOU - Ramtha is an act - you are a real person. Keep the blinders off. (tore mine off on the field and dropped those $29 blinders in the mud) Never went back and although it took awhile, I've "regained" the spirituality I had PRIOR to RSE. I allow my compassion and know that the manner in which we create our reality is through hard work, setting goals, not by simply wishing it to be so.

~Aum~
8) 8) 8)
Okey, found that post really interesting... More of that! :D

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:06 pm

G2G wrote:
Enlighten me objectively wrote:DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...
EMO - I've studied Buddhism, as well. Ask yourself, is this response the manner in which an individual following the teaching of Siddartha would respond? Something to think about.
She touched my sensitive spot! :D And before I became a buddhist, I would have tried to spike her head like a kebab... :evil:

No youre right, not a proper reaction... I know that...

Sincerely,

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:18 pm

G2G wrote:[color=#]In that case, THEY LOST THEMSELVE A STUDENT AT RSE, I REFUSE TO GIVE UP MY TEACHER AT MY MEDITATION CENTRE IN BELGIUM!!!!!!!

Pete, this is spot on. One can have *no* other teacher if one is in RSE. I witnessed a woman taken down by another student due to this. The woman who was verbally admonished was one whose *profession* included that of having another involved in teaching her. I don't know the details. I know what I heard and that was, "you cannot have another teacher except Ramtha."
If Ramtha was making more effort for his students, he would be in a position to demand such a thing, why does he forbids his students to have other teachers, when he fails to maintain a proper Teacher-Student relation? That for starters...

In my language we have this proverb: "I learn from every human being, and from the most evil, I learn the most."

And like I said :D Moved him from the cool-list, to the intolorant and bad attitude-list... Where he is to stay untill someone can explain me that kind of behaviour...

Thanks,

Pete

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:37 am

ex wrote:the show is impressive.not showing peorsonal up is just to make you strive forward to be part of bc.you will find the desire growing in you to come back to restore the spirituall uplifting feeling you get through all the "work".thats the first programing.

please forgive this metapher but its just like watching a child playing around the stove. you know it will get burned you try to shout warnings but you know you cant prevent the burned fingers [the expierience]i wish you all the best.
Yikes, I have a lot of reading to do tonight, to catch up. Ya'll have been BUSY !!!

For now, just wanna say that there sure is merit in what our dear EX has said. When Rambler doesn't show up, one common thought amongst students is that they didn't do the Great Work well enough, seriously enough, with enough dedication, blahblahblah. They blame themselves. Perhaps it never occurs to them, to hold the teacher accountable. How about, "Rambles needs to accept us unconditionally, as he says he does, and get 'his' butt down here and teach." (Just making a point about hypocrisy, not endorsing anything here) As is typical, students are inferior and flawed, and full accountable, and Rambles is above reproach. Only so, because the students, who HAVE the power but don't see it, allow that treatment by Rambles. The students go away from an event, waiting to return for their "fix". That "FIX", is an emotional fix. A sign of cult life. Many books address this psychological programming-emotional 'addiction' to the cult/teacher.

As EX also says, about the child burning his fingers and the parent watching and trying to warn them...sometimes, they just don't listen ! So, the parent (or friend, or EMF fellow), tries in desperation to help keep others from "getting burned". Sometimes, instead, they just want to go bang their own head against a wall in utter frustration. :shock:

More later ! Gotta go read to the kids before bedtime.

:-)

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:11 am

Whatchamacallit wrote:
ex wrote:the show is impressive.not showing peorsonal up is just to make you strive forward to be part of bc.you will find the desire growing in you to come back to restore the spirituall uplifting feeling you get through all the "work".thats the first programing.

please forgive this metapher but its just like watching a child playing around the stove. you know it will get burned you try to shout warnings but you know you cant prevent the burned fingers [the expierience]i wish you all the best.
Yikes, I have a lot of reading to do tonight, to catch up. Ya'll have been BUSY !!!

For now, just wanna say that there sure is merit in what our dear EX has said. When Rambler doesn't show up, one common thought amongst students is that they didn't do the Great Work well enough, seriously enough, with enough dedication, blahblahblah. They blame themselves. Perhaps it never occurs to them, to hold the teacher accountable. How about, "Rambles needs to accept us unconditionally, as he says he does, and get 'his' butt down here and teach." (Just making a point about hypocrisy, not endorsing anything here) As is typical, students are inferior and flawed, and full accountable, and Rambles is above reproach. Only so, because the students, who HAVE the power but don't see it, allow that treatment by Rambles. The students go away from an event, waiting to return for their "fix". That "FIX", is an emotional fix. A sign of cult life. Many books address this psychological programming-emotional 'addiction' to the cult/teacher.

As EX also says, about the child burning his fingers and the parent watching and trying to warn them...sometimes, they just don't listen ! So, the parent (or friend, or EMF fellow), tries in desperation to help keep others from "getting burned". Sometimes, instead, they just want to go bang their own head against a wall in utter frustration. :shock:

More later ! Gotta go read to the kids before bedtime.

:-)
Hi Whatcha,

I can imagine the frustration, and I am glad we can put all of the desperation/getting burned issues concerning myself behind us. Not everyone can be saved though, just like a child, sometimes they grow stronger/wiser in getting burned. But that doesnt mean they need to commit suicide, thats over the top; thats where I think the larger part of frustration comes from, getting burned allows you to grow, and learn from your mistakes, commiting suicide doesnt has that opportunity, in this life-time. And you dont know the outcome when they join RSE, Its necessary they close that place, and hope they will soon...

Nightynight,

Pete

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:12 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:::raises hand:: Agrees with Whatcha and David. The pattern is clear to some, yet not to all. EMO - ask yourself why you feel attacked? One person was simply asking objective questions. You were not attacked, from an objective standpoint. These are real and difficult questions to answer. It might hit an area those who are enamoured with RSE find a bit discomforting. Look within and keep asking. ~aum mani padme hum

Simply asking objective questions? Let me quote that:

but with all sincerity, I wonder why you are still posting on here, when you are really a convinced, active RSE student ? What outcome do you expect ongoing posts to achieve ? We are surely not going to become "convinced" of why we ought to be in RSE.

Is that an objective question? Would you feel attacked in my place? I sorted this out with Watcha, and concider it to be understood now (both sides)...

Then this:

What do you think RSE can do for YOU, that YOU cannot do for YOURSELF?

Objective would be: I think that RSE isnt the only place where you can gain that kind of wisdom, and surely, all those things they teach you can find out for yourself, by reading books, or attending other, less expensive workshops...

So yes, I felt kind of attacked by those questions, and after I apologised about my reaction towards Watcha... So lets concider that matter handled..

Pete
Okay, deal. ;-) The candle focus and walk aren't JZ's inventions. One can learn them elsewhere. She did a "package deal swipe" of so many practices and ideas belonging to others. So the "disciplines" taught aren't RSE's to begin with... That, imo, is important to be aware of. Good luck!
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:16 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:
G2G wrote:
Enlighten me objectively wrote:DONT tell me Ramtha is my teacher, Im a boeddhist, my teacher is SN Goenka, look him up on the internet...

So lets quit this childish behaviour and keep this board open-minded, you know very well I agree for almost 100% with the members here on the board...
EMO - I've studied Buddhism, as well. Ask yourself, is this response the manner in which an individual following the teaching of Siddartha would respond? Something to think about.
She touched my sensitive spot! :D And before I became a buddhist, I would have tried to spike her head like a kebab... :evil:

No youre right, not a proper reaction... I know that...

Sincerely,

Pete
Oh, you ticklish thing, you! ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:21 am

Whatcha writes: "When Rambler doesn't show up, one common thought amongst students is that they didn't do the Great Work well enough, seriously enough, with enough dedication, blahblahblah. They blame themselves. Perhaps it never occurs to them, to hold the teacher accountable."

Guess they don't consider how much time it takes to put on the face-lifting serum, false eyelashes and rest of the makeup, untangle the hair extensions, etc. in order for Ramthat to make an appearance. Must be exhausting. 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:21 am

[/quote]Okay, deal. ;-) The candle focus and walk aren't JZ's inventions. One can learn them elsewhere. She did a "package deal swipe" of so many practices and ideas belonging to others. So the "disciplines" taught aren't RSE's to begin with... That, imo, is important to be aware of. Good luck![/quote]

For instance, that neighbourhoodwalk, thats actually almost the same thing as 'walking meditation' from Thich Nhat Hahn, the buddhist we were talking about, he was doing it long before JZ...

Candlefocus is also much older than that...

Its too sad to be posting about lol... Its one big business nowadays, in ancient time they had no money and were teaching you this for free! :D

Pete

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:24 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:
Okay, deal. ;-) The candle focus and walk aren't JZ's inventions. One can learn them elsewhere. She did a "package deal swipe" of so many practices and ideas belonging to others. So the "disciplines" taught aren't RSE's to begin with... That, imo, is important to be aware of. Good luck![/quote]

For instance, that neighbourhoodwalk, thats actually almost the same thing as 'walking meditation' from Thich Nhat Hahn, the buddhist we were talking about, he was doing it long before JZ...

Candlefocus is also much older than that...

Its too sad to be posting about lol... Its one big business nowadays, in ancient time they had no money and were teaching you this for free! :D

Pete[/quote]

Imo, as it ought to be... :-) :-) :-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:26 am

G2G wrote:Whatcha writes: "When Rambler doesn't show up, one common thought amongst students is that they didn't do the Great Work well enough, seriously enough, with enough dedication, blahblahblah. They blame themselves. Perhaps it never occurs to them, to hold the teacher accountable."

Guess they don't consider how much time it takes to put on the face-lifting serum, false eyelashes and rest of the makeup, untangle the hair extensions, etc. in order for Ramthat to make an appearance. Must be exhausting. 8)
Oh yeah, almost forgot.. She had her lips done as well... Hope she reads about this, cause thats a fatal flaw in the whole create your reality show...

Not nice of me to say, but I just like to be honest about what I have seen...

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:18 am

I'm catching up on posts....so this post and my next ones may appear fragmented or out of order.....but....here goes !!!

GOENKA ? BUDDHISM
I?ve always liked Buddhism. Still do like much of it. Taking EMO?s request seriously, I did Google ?Goenka Buddhism? and I found tons of sites, these two among them that seemed very good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._N._Goenka
http://www.dhamma.org/en/goenka.shtml
However, being of a new mind (hehe), realizing I was in a ?cult??and since I?ve left RSE, and been ?saved? by Joe and Robert?s rationally thinking input, along with the profound, compassionate guidance I received, while I cried my eyeballs inside out, from the YELM LOCALS, who have seen many like me, come and go?
Nowadays?
I MUST ALSO spend time Googling the OTHER side of ALL equations. Therefore, I also Googled ?Geonka Buddhism Fraud?. In doing so, there were 382 google responses. I breezed very quickly through them and didn?t dig deeper, as my friend would suggest we all do. I?m not going to, only because I have no inclination at this time in my life to research any spiritual leader?s teachings. After what I?ve been through, I?ve concluded (correctly or incorrectly), that I will speak directly to God, and I?ll live my life as ?evolved? as I am able to. If I get my ass kicked when I croak, fine. If I did a good enough job, then it?s all good. At least I will have made my own choice. The thought of another spiritual path makes me want to run and hide in a closet, lock the door, and curl up in a fetal position. Not happening.
I am only saying this to comment on where I am at. It has NOTHING to do with anyone else?s beliefs or path, whatsoever.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:32 am

Pete said,
Im sorry if I attacked you with my DONT monologue :-) I had too much people telling me what to do in my life and I felt like you were telling me what to do and what not to do, so I appologise for that ;-)

Pete
Pete,

I think it's speaks VOLUMES about your character that you would care enough about my feelings to apologize. Thank you. I DO (as we all do) realize that the whole RSE drama is highly emotionally charged, and when I asked pointed questions, it's not because I'm trying to be a pain in the arse, but because it really gives me anxiety to think of someone getting suckered into that place. YES, many of us have posted that we had "good times" there, too. But, abusers are certainly capable of facilitating good times, along with the nightmares.

I wasn't trying to tell you not to check it out. I was afraid you would do what I did...check it out and fall into the abyss !!!!! Keep in mind, that not everyone has the wherewithall to go there with the ammo you had in advance, learned from reading EMF, keep their wits about them as you did when you were at RSE. I'm GLAD you have Buddhism/Goenka as a contrast, with the experience that goes with it. While I would cringe if you went to Lazaris, the FACT is, it's a MUCH more loving environment/attitude than at RSE. At least it's not abusive.

Okay, off to read a gazillion more posts. Don't you people sleep ???? :lol:

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EMO

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:52 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:I frequently told all of the Ramsters that Ramtha shouldnt mock the wisdom inside Buddhism, they didnt want to hear about it, felt sorry for them
Rambles can't stand, nor will 'he' tolerate, 'his' students going to any other teacher/guru. We were even told that we'd be kicked out of school, or weeded out. It's a known fact that on many occasions, JZK has employed people to spy on others whom she perceived as possible threats to Her Turf.

A jealous, territorial, insecure GOD ?? ........... :roll: ...................

Reminds me of a two year old's temper tantrum. Perhaps he needs another incarnation and Goenka can help him out !!!! Seriously, JZK/R has bashed all major religions. RSE would surely have us all believing that Only the Ramtha Model is the "right one". (not)


YES, EMO, you are totally free to do as you please. Absolutely.

I'm just breathing a sigh of relief that you aren't falling hook, line and sinker into that RSE abyss.

I know you don't know me, or my personality. I don't have the creative flair for flowery words that David does. I'm far more businesslike, blunt, forthright and sometimes come across as aloof. That can be misconstrued as other qualities such as telling others what to do or what to think. It's not. My grown children will attest to the fact that I will always give my opinion, perhaps strongly stated, perhaps something I know in advance they won't want to hear. But, I do not tell them/others what to do or how to do it. I try hard to be fair, well balanced and diplomatic, honest, and respectful, while not being remiss in ignoring important issues because I'm afraid to be anything other than politically correct. I'm a no nonsense person. That has its strengths and it's weaknesses, depending on the situation. Right or wrong, good or bad, that's me. Maybe I'm a curmudgeon and don't even know it. (naaah)

So stay away from RSE, EMO !!!! (insert humor)
8)

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:57 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:so EMO is not quite clear yet in his thinking.
[color=#]Shame on you :shock:
And does not believe critical thinking to be a vital life skill.
[color=#]I had more of my intuition, but dont reject critical thinking either...
Thus sets the stage for his further answers.
Everyone is demanding answers when he clearly states he cannot do so.
[color=#]Hey, what are you on about? Are we in court? :lol:
Hence the indoctrination has begun. This paragraph sais it all very clearly.
[color=#]Tree, did you had too much applejuice or something? THE INDOCTRINATION HAS BEGUN... Lol!!!
EMO............ insert humor here............

I'm glad you yelled at Tree. I was feeling very alone !

Trees don't drink apple juice. They only drink water. They tried wine, but that burned their roots. Now, they've been planted elsewhere.

Be nice to Trees ! They give you oxygen.

(I'm channeling David)

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:07 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:
so EMO is not quite clear yet in his thinking.
[color=#]Shame on you Shocked
And does not believe critical thinking to be a vital life skill.
[color=#]I had more of my intuition, but dont reject critical thinking either...
Thus sets the stage for his further answers.
Everyone is demanding answers when he clearly states he cannot do so.
[color=#]Hey, what are you on about? Are we in court? Laughing
Hence the indoctrination has begun. This paragraph sais it all very clearly.
[color=#]Tree, did you had too much applejuice or something? THE INDOCTRINATION HAS BEGUN... Lol!!!



EMO............ insert humor here............

I'm glad you yelled at Tree. I was feeling very alone !

Trees don't drink apple juice. They only drink water. They tried wine, but that burned their roots. Now, they've been planted elsewhere.

Be nice to Trees ! They give you oxygen.

(I'm channeling David)

this is getting too weird for me.
I merely posted what pete commented about his own critical thinking skills.
I will not start a diatribe by re quoting what he did in his original post.
He doesn't practice anyway in the "practice" section.
Maybe he changed his brain in 2 weeks. wtf?
you 2 got your own thing going on (whatcha and EMO)
I will bow out.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:14 am

ordinarymind wrote: So anyway, here?s my point ?.is it ethical to support a place that does not practice what it teaches, a place that, in fact, harms others? ?is it ethical to do that because we think we are finding a few good things in it and we enjoy our experience at the ?ranch?? Pete, this isn?t meant as a criticism of you but it is a question I want any newcomers out there to think about before deciding to attend a beginner event .. . and certainly before deciding to go to a follow up ..or ?one more event? .. ?so to those of you out there who are in a place of curiosity about RSE .. and are thinking about going there to ?take what you want and leave the rest?, now that you have read what some long time students have experienced and observed at RSE, can you really justify supporting the place?
Geez, that's the point I was trying to get across, but you said it much better. Ditto, ditto, ditto.


......... and to Pete........ Please understand that I took most of my kids there, ONCE EACH, at some point in time or another. Granted, toward the latter years (about 1996 and onward) it started to really deteriorate, with the introduction to the whole school, of the wine ceremonies. I had taken a few years off while having some kids, so when I returned, and I treated my curious 5 year old to a long weekend event with me, I figured no harm would come of it. The wine had seemed to be curtailed. Just my dumb luck...Rambles comes out one night, and started up with the vile language. I looked at my kid (who had fallen asleep, thankfully), and looked back at the stage, then at the exit door...

it's frightening to me how parents seem to lose even their parental instincts to protect their children at RSE. Just ONE example; there was a huge problem with all ages of children going around (thanks to copying Ramtha's behavior), telling just about anyone and everyone who even slightly annoyed them to "F*** off" or some very similar phrase. Can you imagine ? I remember during a break, sitting at the picnic table over by the swings, expecting to enjoy watching all the children play. Not. I cringed at the foul language and the power plays I witnessed. If I heard my kid talking like that to another kid, and certainly not to an adult...holy smokes ! They'd be grounded and making amends! !! ! No kid of mine ever set foot there again, nor ever will. It is my opinion that having children in RSE constitutes child abuse. They see and hear FAR too much inappropriate behaviors, all around.

Anyway, I mention this, just to add to the laundry list of experiences that I and others can attest to, as true. And why as Ordinary said, choosing to go there, with this foreknowledge, becomes at some point, an ethical issue. (not to be confused with telling anyone what to do) ;-)

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:23 am

G2G wrote: Only after that could anyone eat. (I admit I ate an energy bar I had with me - sorry, not going to let my blood sugar drop "just because" someone tells me not to eat). Pfui to such an imposition.
Okay, I'm going a tad off topic for a second with a story from the RSE past.

I think this is funny and wonder how MANY people actually did similar things.

I knew a person who bought fried chicken to events, wrapped it up and stuffed it in her coat pockets. Now, this was in a time when we'd be on the field for 6 - 12 hours, non-stop. No breaks. NONE.

So, when she got the munchies while on the field for a gazillion hours, she took off her blinders and snuck off somewhere and had herself some fried chicken ! Talk about survival planning !!! She found me on the field one time, and we were laughing about it. 'Cept, I was gittin' hungry, too and wanted to know where my chicken was !

Okay, shutting up now.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:31 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote: living on the ground instead of underneath
Laughing my butt off !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PETE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where is your sense of adventure ????????????????

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:41 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote: People were clapping and saying "how beautiful," not realizing this poor woman dragging herself down the field was *not* any better at all, and I was very concerned she could slip in the mud and injure herself. [color=#]I wander what would have happened if she actually had hurt herself, makes me shiver...

EMO...
For many years, as others here can attest to, Rambles told us that nobody would EVER die in "his" audience.

Well, at a Blue College mandatory spring event...oh gosh...what year was that ...... 2004 ???.........

a long time, dedicated student who was even in the "special" (comrade) group, dropped dead of a heart attack IN THE AUDIENCE and nothing was done.

I didn't know the man personally, but knew who he was by face. David knew him, I believe. Probably some others on here...well, I'm sure of that.

Fortunately, that old woman didn't fall and slip in the mud. Yes.

Not so fortunate for the guy who died, though, IN audience. I'm sure you understand that the standard response by students was, "It was for the purposeful good. He's with the Ram now in the 23rd universe."

It's scary to me, that someone can be hit, or drop dead (against a promise of it never happening), and the brainwashed masses (my opinion) don't skip a step.

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:44 am

Tree,

It was a FUNNY. Nothing more, nothing less. I was encouraging EMO to lighten up on you. He thinks we're jumping on him, and we're not. Though, I'm confident he realizes we're not, now.

And yes, I am trying to get caught up on posts. Sorry I have so many in a row.

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:15 pm

whatcha=
I had taken a few years off while having some kids, so when I returned, and I treated my curious 5 year old to a long weekend event with me, I figured no harm would come of it. The wine had seemed to be curtailed. Just my dumb luck...Rambles comes out one night, and started up with the vile language

I did not realize you had been away for a time and then treated your 5 year old to an extended weekend.
ESPECIALLY described as such (which, is all true, btw).
As a mother who had not been at the ranch for quite some time, I would have been abhorred at the behavior of jz.

I see you feel as strongly about the children as I do , except in my case,
I had a bunch of teenagers around who 1) had been introduced to the wine ceremonies 2) 3 boys whose mother had commited
suicide 3) one teenager who father had died in the audience and I was the only mother NOT at that event
and I had to locate the kids at a party and then inform them of the death.

jz and her charade has had the worse influence on a single group (appox 20) of teenagers (in my little sphere)
that I have ever seen.
and none of these kids (now young men and women) want ANYTHING to do with that place (including greg simmons
own son)
and are adamant about not needing any professional help.

her little game has changed people's lives in a most destructive way.

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:43 pm

Pete - you probably haven't seen the posts where people who have experienced jz's ramtha expressed their valuing of their experiences and learning. I still, almost 20 years later, apply lessons learned there. And I quickly add - as someone long ago posted here - some people who were in Hitler's concentration camps learned great life lessons -- does that mean we should all go to a concentration camp to learn life's meaning? ... Life calls each of us to learn be each experience, including our "mistakes", including disasters-natural and otherwise. ... Every soldier has learned from his experience in war - does that mean all men should go to war to learn?... We, at least I, am not de-valuing or questioning that you learned ... that's not the point. ... But maybe you're understanding that now. Just wanted to make clear that we too have learned and had incredible experiences - we kept our babies, we just threw out the septic grey water in which jz bathed us.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:55 pm

Tree wrote:
this is getting too weird for me.
I merely posted what pete commented about his own critical thinking skills.
I will not start a diatribe by re quoting what he did in his original post.
He doesn't practice anyway in the "practice" section.
Maybe he changed his brain in 2 weeks. wtf?
you 2 got your own thing going on (whatcha and EMO)
I will bow out.
Tree,

Have been reading some posts, and I just found out you are a mother of several childeren. Ive been thinking all along you were a man, because Tree made me think of a name a man would use. And because of your posts that were so... advanced in reason, CT, I thought you actually were... women mostly have their facts going trough the emotional filter, while you kind of kept a strong balance in your reason... You surprised me, and come to think of it, wouldnt have asked you to have a cup of tea, when I knew you were a mother..

Let me explain my CT for a moment: I rely mostly on my intuition, because I am a 'feeling-person' instead of a rational person. My CT has been seriously damaged by drug abuse, as well as my brain... and by reestablishing CT after that, I noticed its not always as usefull. I mostly make decisions based upon intuition. But think both are absolutely necessary to survive...

Now, pay attention, because master Pete is going to *burp* explain his model of conciousness...

There are two sorts of consciousness inside brain, I mean yourself...

1) Your lower conciousness

Your rational thinking, your reasoning, your monkey mind, your thinking skills, as well as critical thinking...

2) Your higher conciousness

Your higher self, your incarnations, your intuition, the part that sometimes knows things before you thought it over...

Now, in order to survive, its not very smart to rely on just one of them, like eg just use your intuition, or just rely on CT...
I think it is important to make a solid connection between your lower and higher consciousness, and guess thats where Im going to...
I am a 'feeling-person' and rely mostly on my intuition, and use my CT as a secondary instrument most of the time...

I hope you see now why I was laughing with you, Ive been like that all along, and RSE didnt had anything to do with washing away my CT skills, I did that all by myself by abusing myself with drugs... If you ever would meet me, you would know, because I'm a very weird guy... :lol:

Now turn to your partner tree, and tell him what I just told you,

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:30 pm

Another Dimension60 wrote:Pete - you probably haven't seen the posts where people who have experienced jz's ramtha expressed their valuing of their experiences and learning. I still, almost 20 years later, apply lessons learned there. And I quickly add - as someone long ago posted here - some people who were in Hitler's concentration camps learned great life lessons -- does that mean we should all go to a concentration camp to learn life's meaning? ... Life calls each of us to learn be each experience, including our "mistakes", including disasters-natural and otherwise. ... Every soldier has learned from his experience in war - does that mean all men should go to war to learn?... We, at least I, am not de-valuing or questioning that you learned ... that's not the point. ... But maybe you're understanding that now. Just wanted to make clear that we too have learned and had incredible experiences - we kept our babies, we just threw out the septic grey water in which jz bathed us.
Thats nicely said. One does need some critical thinking/intuition in order to draw the line between spiritual growth and being a blind fanatic. And yeah, understand that now. Back on tracks! 8)

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:51 pm

Hi Pete-

I appreciate your response.
I am the mother of only one child, but the nature of the group and the single
mothers that abounded at RSE brought together a large group of kids, much
of the time at my property.

My son just moved out of the state last weekend after having spent from age 10 months
to 21 1/2 in the Yelm area due to my and his other parents' involvement with the school.
His other parent is still very very much in the school and in the inner circle, if you will; still a staunch
believer.

I feel blessed in having had a child while in RSE because my child kept me from being 100% swept away
with total fanaticism. (I was only 99% swept away! lol :oops: )
AT any rate, there were times where I just could not make that extra event due to my son's private
school costs or other such matters. I was a total wreck inside when I missed my very first assay (assay iv)
as I experienced being totally left out and alienated while I babysat 6 other kids while their parents went
to the retreat.

I would still have liked to have gotten together with you,
but I have since moved away.

I really like meeting with people who are thinking of going to RSE, or who have gone, or even just inquiring.
I am not forceful in my approach- I just give some personal experiences that gives a person food for thought.

I am no where near having a dialogue about higher and lower consciousness.
I am just now, after almost 2 years, able to entertain the possibility of god or higher source or anything spiritual in nature.
And topics like OOB experiences, hypnosis, anything new age brings me to near nausea.
I just have to turn to another chapter in the book and I can go on discussing whatever it is you want from there.

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:59 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote:
G2G wrote: Only after that could anyone eat. (I admit I ate an energy bar I had with me - sorry, not going to let my blood sugar drop "just because" someone tells me not to eat). Pfui to such an imposition.
Okay, I'm going a tad off topic for a second with a story from the RSE past.

I think this is funny and wonder how MANY people actually did similar things.

I knew a person who bought fried chicken to events, wrapped it up and stuffed it in her coat pockets. Now, this was in a time when we'd be on the field for 6 - 12 hours, non-stop. No breaks. NONE.

So, when she got the munchies while on the field for a gazillion hours, she took off her blinders and snuck off somewhere and had herself some fried chicken ! Talk about survival planning !!! She found me on the field one time, and we were laughing about it. 'Cept, I was gittin' hungry, too and wanted to know where my chicken was !

Okay, shutting up now.
I had a feeling I wasn't the only one!!!... :lol:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:03 pm

Tree wrote:whatcha=
I had taken a few years off while having some kids, so when I returned, and I treated my curious 5 year old to a long weekend event with me, I figured no harm would come of it. The wine had seemed to be curtailed. Just my dumb luck...Rambles comes out one night, and started up with the vile language

I did not realize you had been away for a time and then treated your 5 year old to an extended weekend.
ESPECIALLY described as such (which, is all true, btw).
As a mother who had not been at the ranch for quite some time, I would have been abhorred at the behavior of jz.

I see you feel as strongly about the children as I do , except in my case,
I had a bunch of teenagers around who 1) had been introduced to the wine ceremonies 2) 3 boys whose mother had commited
suicide 3) one teenager who father had died in the audience and I was the only mother NOT at that event
and I had to locate the kids at a party and then inform them of the death.

jz and her charade has had the worse influence on a single group (appox 20) of teenagers (in my little sphere)
that I have ever seen.
and none of these kids (now young men and women) want ANYTHING to do with that place (including greg simmons
own son)
and are adamant about not needing any professional help.

her little game has changed people's lives in a most destructive way.
Greg's own son doesn't go to RSE!?!? Wow, how did Greg "manifest" THAT! ;-) ;-) ;-)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:07 pm

Greg's own son doesn't go to RSE!?!?
no. the oldest son does not, and has not for quite some time.
He is very "cool" about it though and sais,
"whatever makes my dad happy. I am happy for him if he is happy."
His son is not judgemental in regards to what his father is doing.

Very allowing for not being an rse advocate
whereas rse totally abhors any other teachers, belief systems,
any other "teachers" other than rambles.

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kids with rse parents

Unread post by Tree » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:15 pm

which brings me to an off tangent post in regards to kids of rse parents.

The kids who are now young adults, anywhere from age about 18-30
really do not want to speak or analyze their involvement nor their parents'
involvement with rse.
However, if one is privy to a social situation, let's say a BBQ with any amount
of alcohol,
you will see the often noted sarcastic chides of "TO LIFE!!" and "so be its!!"
and "wow! Look what I manifested!!!" to which everyone roars
with laughter because they all know it is crock of (*&^&.

I personally think it will either a) take some more time for them to want to seriously reflect
on this topic or b) they will just blow it off altogether because most of them have gone
on to lead productive lives and have not been as seriously affected as their parents.
They do have the added environmental impact of having witnessed and participated in
numerous wine ceremonies and wine ceremonies on the home front that brought
on much abuse and violence, unless that is of course, their parents got out of rse.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:55 pm

Tree wrote:
Greg's own son doesn't go to RSE!?!?
no. the oldest son does not, and has not for quite some time.
He is very "cool" about it though and sais,
"whatever makes my dad happy. I am happy for him if he is happy."
His son is not judgemental in regards to what his father is doing.

Very allowing for not being an rse advocate
whereas rse totally abhors any other teachers, belief systems,
any other "teachers" other than rambles.
I wander what he has got to say about 'its an alone thing'
If he would leave behind his own son to become a Master...

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Unread post by G2G » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:24 am

Tree wrote:
Greg's own son doesn't go to RSE!?!?
no. the oldest son does not, and has not for quite some time.
He is very "cool" about it though and sais,
"whatever makes my dad happy. I am happy for him if he is happy."
His son is not judgemental in regards to what his father is doing.

Very allowing for not being an rse advocate
whereas rse totally abhors any other teachers, belief systems,
any other "teachers" other than rambles.
I know while I was there, JZ as Ramtha took down Buddhism, Hinduism (oh yes, "Great Ram" imposter!) ;-) ..as well as Christianity.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:45 am

G2G wrote:
Tree wrote:
Greg's own son doesn't go to RSE!?!?
no. the oldest son does not, and has not for quite some time.
He is very "cool" about it though and sais,
"whatever makes my dad happy. I am happy for him if he is happy."
His son is not judgemental in regards to what his father is doing.

Very allowing for not being an rse advocate
whereas rse totally abhors any other teachers, belief systems,
any other "teachers" other than rambles.
I know while I was there, JZ as Ramtha took down Buddhism, Hinduism (oh yes, "Great Ram" imposter!) ;-) ..as well as Christianity.
I dont get it, I read somewhere that he was a god in Hinduism, Rama, also known as Ramachandra, as described in the Ramayana, whats that all about?
You know what, if you look up that story, it tells a story that he build the sandbanks in the sea between Sri Lanka en Tamil Nadu; with an army of monkeys.

Wander what he is up to with his army of masters? :-?

Could it be he is building a big bunker-complex, to feed his army of undead monkeys, and start a travelling circus with masters of the cards, undead monkeys and archery spectacles?

Help me out here, has to be a connection...

Pete

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:18 am

Tree wrote:I did not realize you had been away for a time and then treated your 5 year old to an extended weekend.
Remember in 1997 when that big tent was up in the summer (Boktau), and there was some mini-event at the same time for part of the bigger event ? Well, anyway, it was at that event (I was there with a relative), that Rambles had the comrades set aside in that tent, and was instructing them. The wine ceremonies were being test driven on those comrades. I remember being nearby, NOT doing my disciplines, and overhearing quite a bit. I felt "icky" inside from what I heard. It scared me because as we know, whatever he test drove on the comrades was likely to next show up on the schedule for the entire school. I don't drink. I find the taste of any alcohol just revolting. I'd much rather an iced tea!

Well, I was already seeing too much Roughness from staff (Vicki was......well...Vicki), and just lots of negative, controlling, bossy attitude stuff and I just figured the energy was all wrong and I was going to leave RSE back then, anyway. Just fed up. Plus, I was also going to Lazaris, whom I found a MUCH more gentle, loving persona, who also taught the same basic premise. Combine that with a difficult pregnancy, and I had two kids in a couple of years at that time, so I just didn't return. I missed it and I didn't miss it. Couple of years later, a friend of mine who had never gone, wanted to go but was chicken about going it alone in a strange land. She begged me to go with her. I said no over and over and she wore me down. UGGGGGGG.

So, off I went, back into the gates of hell. Fool.

My first event (beginner's) was one of the best events I had EVER attended. Damn. I thought ... I"ll give it another chance. I sat in THE front and center. Ramtha looked me right in the eye and talked...blahblabblah...oh, damn. I was so hooked. AGAIN. FOOL that I was. It went well for a while, really. No wine ceremonies. I was hearing tales, though, and I had listened to some audios, and I wasn't impressed. The red flags started up again. Here we go, again. I'd say it was 12 - 18 months before we started up again with the w.c. It got ugly, fast. It was before it really tanked, that I had brought my 5 year old there. She had so much fun at the food vendors, picking out anything she wanted for eats, and playing on the playgym. Honestly, we had a pretty good weekend.

Except for the night when Rambles came out, and was in a "mood", I call it. Ugly. Vile. I told my hubby, no way would I bring a kid back there.

The next year it went downhill more and more. One night, I had had enough (this is well after my daughter was there). I was in the front, noncompliant, and quite defiant, actually. Well, I got myself chewed up and spit out by Rambles. Even threatened my life. I stared in silence and refused to react. With all humility I will say that if anyone was "mature" there, it was not "him", but me. After that event, I had pretty much decided it was over...but...it physically took me a while to disengage. I was sick to my stomach from emotional pain. I came home, woke up in the middle of the night, had anxiety attacks and felt like I was suffocating...it was a nightmare. I had to face so many things about being duped it was overwhelming to consider and sort out (as we all know in our own ways).

I'm so disappointed that I returned, but I did. There is NO chance of that even happening again. At least that's good news. My life is MY life now. Since my last event in 2006, all of the kids and I have gotten closer and closer. It's like we are making up for lost time. Literally. They know if I could do it over again, I would have left the RSE experience OUT of my life, but we all have to accept that I did what I did. At least in a strange sort of way, they understand that my INTENTIONS were good. Just misguided.

I guess one good thing, too, is that the kids are unlikely to ever get sucked into a cult. Anything that even smacks of such a thing and they'd be like, .......NOT ...........

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Unread post by G2G » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:13 pm

Enlighten me objectively wrote:
G2G wrote:
Tree wrote: no. the oldest son does not, and has not for quite some time.
He is very "cool" about it though and sais,
"whatever makes my dad happy. I am happy for him if he is happy."
His son is not judgemental in regards to what his father is doing.

Very allowing for not being an rse advocate
whereas rse totally abhors any other teachers, belief systems,
any other "teachers" other than rambles.
I know while I was there, JZ as Ramtha took down Buddhism, Hinduism (oh yes, "Great Ram" imposter!) ;-) ..as well as Christianity.
I dont get it, I read somewhere that he was a god in Hinduism, Rama, also known as Ramachandra, as described in the Ramayana, whats that all about?
You know what, if you look up that story, it tells a story that he build the sandbanks in the sea between Sri Lanka en Tamil Nadu; with an army of monkeys.

Wander what he is up to with his army of masters? :-?

Could it be he is building a big bunker-complex, to feed his army of undead monkeys, and start a travelling circus with masters of the cards, undead monkeys and archery spectacles?

Help me out here, has to be a connection...

Pete
JZ as Ramtha claims to be "the Great Ram of the Hindis"...she doesn't use "Hindu" - since "Hindu" is a religion. She is neither the "Great Ram" of the mythological Ramayana or anything related to India. She read, she took, she twisted. The Ramayana is a great epic, but is not to be taken literally. Deepawali or Diwali is the celebration of "Ram" returning from exile, which is translated into "good overcoming evil."
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by California Dreamin' » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:07 pm

EMO said:
Could it be that your 'higher self' made you aware of the importance of 'CT' in RSE, or was it maybe that 'CT' was the spring-board that develloped you to act out of that 'CT'-foundation of intuition? Was it a chicken that you ate, or did you had an egg? I mean: apparently you kind of combined the two together, which I have not, and I find it interesting to know how you did that... Enlighten me
While in RSE I was driven by a belief system that was brainwashed into my consciousness. A red flag for me was that we were taught to command the lord God of our being in our affirmations (i.e., the list). That always made be uncomfortable as prior to Ramtha I turned within to God for direction, not commanded God.

Now that I'm out of RSE, I'm working on re-establishing my core beliefs - both spiritual and mental. I'm consciously aware now of critical thinking, which I had never previously given much thought.

Now, when confronted with problems and challenges, I turn within to God for guidance and I see the situations from a deeper, broader perspective. My critical thinking and decisions are increasingly becoming God based. I'm still working on re-establishing the habit to turn to God, and sometimes I slip up and my alter ego takes over and taints the situation. But, when I turn within for guidance, I am able to see situations more clearly and lovingly and my actions appear to be the best interest of myself and those who are affected.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:20 pm

California Dreamin' wrote:
While in RSE I was driven by a belief system that was brainwashed into my consciousness. A red flag for me was that we were taught to command the lord God of our being in our affirmations (i.e., the list). That always made be uncomfortable as prior to Ramtha I turned within to God for direction, not commanded God.

Now that I'm out of RSE, I'm working on re-establishing my core beliefs - both spiritual and mental. I'm consciously aware now of critical thinking, which I had never previously given much thought.

Now, when confronted with problems and challenges, I turn within to God for guidance and I see the situations from a deeper, broader perspective. My critical thinking and decisions are increasingly becoming God based. I'm still working on re-establishing the habit to turn to God, and sometimes I slip up and my alter ego takes over and taints the situation. But, when I turn within for guidance, I am able to see situations more clearly and lovingly and my actions appear to be the best interest of myself and those who are affected.
Ah, thats interesting. If I understand correct, you have changed standard CT into CT in a higher counscious form, connected with the inner 'God'. Or something of that sort, my english vocabulary is too limited, but this describes what I think you did.

And is exactly what I think one should do, although im not so far yet, Im very intuitive, but my thinking hasnt made that connection yet, most of the time...

Its also difficult to maintain that higher state of vibration, when you come in contact with people that vibrate at a lower level, one should be able to do diciplines, or exercises, like i.e. Yoga, meditation, be positive,... and I think thats the state where you can combine them more easily... But due to every day life its sometimes difficult to rise above that... and stay there...

Thanks for your post, found it most interesting

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:06 pm

What I also found very interesting was that girl of Australia. She predicted 51 out of 52 cards while our group was watching, and I also read the story of Roald Dahl, bought the book in that quantum caf?, and it is exactly the same thing that she did, she states the candle focus helped her to do that, together with 'not trying' and being analogue in the moment...

So although its stolen from that story, it proves to be working nevertheless, and I dont see what difference it makes if she stole that technique, or she invented it herself... she was smart enough to make money out of it. Its a very interesting thing to be working on, bought myself some candles and Im practicing myself :D

What I also think is: there is a big difference in the manner they teach at RSE, and other spiritual places, like i.e. my meditation centre where I learned Vipassana, Plum village (the place in Europe where Thich Nhat Hahn has his workshops), and so on...

Because like CD pointed out, at RSE they command the inner God to grow, like an induvidual, while at other places they kind of help the whole enviroment by getting yourself vibrating at a higher level, doing that by 'asking' your inner God, and have the best solution for everybody, and supporting that enviroment at the same time... If you vibrate at 100% you radiate that to your enviroment, and that helps the ppl around you, if someone gets left behind, other places coach you personally, have proper one on one guidance,.. In BB technique, they claim to do just the same thing. But their philosiphy is a really different one. Because they see it as an alone thing. And you should only work yourself up to mastership, and leave others to learn for themselve. while in other communities they work as a group, they are one big vibrating family, pulling the ones up that have a lower frequency... helping out to bring about a community that sees everybody as an important part of that community. didnt see that at RSE. everybody for himself over there...

And thats a dangerous aspect in community life I think, it could sink the whole ship if there is no proper community spirit. Like, in world war 2, my family in germany didnt want to go to war, but in '43, they had to go or would be shot. They didnt create that reality, they just became victim of the collective consciousness (I lack a better word) and became part of that reality anyway...

So to the point: at RSE where there are so many instable students, left to their mastership, that kind of collective counsciousness (you know what I mean) is actually feeding a situation in which there will be people left behind to die or commit suicide. Why would Ramtha and/or JZ allow that? Because it could take down the advanced students as well, Their reality could suck up the reality of the 'masters' like Miche sucked up his golden coin underneath his seat... and leave an empty school that doesnt bring about enlightenment, nor makes money for JZ...

I guess I just dont see the logic in their way of working on mastership...

Pete

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Unread post by joe sz » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:51 pm

Its also difficult to maintain that higher state of vibration, when you come in contact with people that vibrate at a lower level, one should be able to do diciplines, or exercises, like i.e. Yoga, meditation, be positive,... and I think thats the state where you can combine them more easily... But due to every day life its sometimes difficult to rise above that... and stay there...
EMO: Where did you get the idea that we have to "vibrate" at a "higher level" to be a "master" or enlightened?

Yoga and most eastern meditation techniques slow the human system down, in fact, the core goal of Yoga is to "still the breath/mind" or regulate breath/mind to a calm, steady state, to utterly settle all the vibratory noise in order to "yoke" with the sacred Brahman. Since Brahman is "non-dual" there can be no vibration.

Just thinking out loud here in the calm of a midday misting rain outside---perfect weather for Twilight's vampires. [Our youngest, a tween, is totally into all the Twilight books and movie/dvd.]

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:42 pm

joe sz wrote:
Its also difficult to maintain that higher state of vibration, when you come in contact with people that vibrate at a lower level, one should be able to do diciplines, or exercises, like i.e. Yoga, meditation, be positive,... and I think thats the state where you can combine them more easily... But due to every day life its sometimes difficult to rise above that... and stay there...
EMO: Where did you get the idea that we have to "vibrate" at a "higher level" to be a "master" or enlightened?

Yoga and most eastern meditation techniques slow the human system down, in fact, the core goal of Yoga is to "still the breath/mind" or regulate breath/mind to a calm, steady state, to utterly settle all the vibratory noise in order to "yoke" with the sacred Brahman. Since Brahman is "non-dual" there can be no vibration.

Just thinking out loud here in the calm of a midday misting rain outside---perfect weather for Twilight's vampires. [Our youngest, a tween, is totally into all the Twilight books and movie/dvd.]
My English isnt that good, and even in my language its very abstract, but the closest I could think of was Stuart Wild his point of view on highering your 'vibration'.

You do calm your mind and body with those, but you actually higher your vibration with that, because you lose all sorts of things (ego, certain thoughts) that keep you from 'vibrating' at a higher level, mmmm, now Im thinking of those vibrating seats they have at the movies here lol, anyway according to Brahman, everything = vibration, thats how the story starts. And yeah, there is no polarity anymore in a certain frequencies of vibration. Thats why they try to higher it.

Same weather here in Europe, hope it will be sunny soon...

Pete

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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:24 am

Hi Pete,

I have been away and out of touch with the board for a while and have been reading your posts and your evolving interest in RSE.

I have some questions and will try to keep them simple.

What makes you feel/think you are capable of determining within a 90% probability that there is an entity separate from jz's personality?

Do you think that everyone has this ability?

If you believe this "entity" is whom they claim to be, would they not have the capacity to deceive your senses?

If not, why not?

You have said you will perform the "disciplines" and see if they work.

Please list the "disciplines" you are training with and what you expect each one of their results to be and how long you expect before you recieve the expected results.

I read in your introduction that you have some sales training. I would assume that you understand the value of "making one comfortable" in order to make a sale. Why is it that you do not think that in the reading of any of the Ramtha/jz material that this could not produce a similar "feeling"?

One of the ways I can understand some of your reasoning is that you went to RSE for entertainment. Do you think that statement is true? and if so to what degree?

I ask you these questions to explore the context of your reasoning in order to more clearly understand what you are attempting to achieve and the various ways in which you have attempted to do so.

Thanks
JTR
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:33 am

And yeah, there is no polarity anymore in a certain frequencies of vibration
Pete, as far as I know a vibration is an oscillatory movement moving in opposing directions. if there is no more polarity, would it not cease to be a vibration?

What exactly is the certain frequency you are referring to?
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:16 am

HI Journeythroughramthaland,

Welcome back!

Answered your questions:

I have been away and out of touch with the board for a while and have been reading your posts and your evolving interest in RSE.

I have some questions and will try to keep them simple.

What makes you feel/think you are capable of determining within a 90% probability that there is an entity separate from jz's personality?
My intuition

Do you think that everyone has this ability?
The ability: yes, would it be possible for everyone: no. In order to do that, one has to be convinced there is a, lets call it 'roam of spirits, entities'. That for starters... My brothers ex happened to channel for me, and she said some things that no one could ever know, so I believe that it is possible... However, I have never met anyone who could take over an entire body to work with...

If you believe this "entity" is whom they claim to be, would they not have the capacity to deceive your senses?
If there would be a reason for that, sure. But it seems that there is none. Au contraire, JZ does have that reason...

If not, why not?
Even human beings are able to do that, why not entities beyond this fysical world, allthough I dont see why

You have said you will perform the "disciplines" and see if they work.

Please list the "disciplines" you are training with and what you expect each one of their results to be and how long you expect before you recieve the expected results. Candlefocus, the walk and reading through cards... expect to sharpen my focus, NLP myself and see if it has a positive effect on my life, and read through cards and have myself a nice evening at a casino

I read in your introduction that you have some sales training. I would assume that you understand the value of "making one comfortable" in order to make a sale. Why is it that you do not think that in the reading of any of the Ramtha/jz material that this could not produce a similar "feeling"? I never said that, I do see how they try to suck you in with all sorts of techniques, and they did a very poor job on that, exept with the ppl that sold everything, but any fool can sell his teachings to that sort of people, the contract was already signed before they entered that place

One of the ways I can understand some of your reasoning is that you went to RSE for entertainment. Do you think that statement is true? and if so to what degree? False, I think due to my last post, I gave the board the idea I see enlightenment as 'climbing up the ladder thing' because of my highering your vibration post, actually I see it as a 'big puzzle, where you fit in missing pieces'. If you are on a certain path, and you choose to have a different path for a while to see where that leads to, thats enlightenment for me. So, I was (and am still) a buddhist kind of guy, and chose to have the Ramtha highway to see where that leads to, that WAS the unknown for me, and by doing that, I became enlightened, I learned about things I didnt know about. What I can say is that the workshop was entertainment: fun disciplines, crazy narrow-minded people,... But I went to RSE for learning, exploring = enlightenment for me, ok, its not the buddhist way of elightenment I agree, but still its what I call working on your spiritual growth, enlightenment, and has this tiny difference compared with learning about stuff you didnt know about, in that your goal is learning without direct spiritual growth, with enlightenment your goal IS spriritual growth.

I ask you these questions to explore the context of your reasoning in order to more clearly understand what you are attempting to achieve and the various ways in which you have attempted to do so. Are you sure you are, why would you be concerned about that? :-) You didnt ask me questions about vipassana meditation, allthough thats the larger part of my search...

Thanks
JTR

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:49 am

journeythroughramthaland wrote:
And yeah, there is no polarity anymore in a certain frequencies of vibration
Pete, as far as I know a vibration is an oscillatory movement moving in opposing directions. if there is no more polarity, would it not cease to be a vibration?

What exactly is the certain frequency you are referring to?
When you start to think about something, lets say starting a board like EMF, that thought starts to vibrate in your head, and if you follow that thought it takes root in the fysical world, and in time EMF is born, and members join, and they all have nice conversations, a good laugh with JZ and so on. That can be positive for the members of EMF, or negative, for hard core Ramsters... (polarity) Or it can be nice to meet people who have had the same experience, or it can be sad to talk about the suicides and disolution (again, polarity)

Thats the beautifull thing about this fysical world, in this world your thoughts and emotions return to you in a slow way, so you get the opportunity to learn from them. But then again, because everything in here moves so slow, you may get the illusion that your thoughts, emotions are not the ones that create your reality. And you may think that there is an other external force that controls your life. Now, if you break loose from this fysical world, by highering your energy (meditation, veggy life, no alcohol or drugs,...), you start to notice (I did) that your thoughts and feelings are manifesting sooner, with more speed. Thats the point where I learned that Im actually creating my life myself, I am responsible for a very big part of my life... and that your everyday life is actually a reflection of what you are on the inside... Now the higher you elevate your own energy, the less time it takes to manifest your thoughts... At a certain point, the frequency doesnt have the idea of polarity anymore, it doesnt care if its good or bad, it just manifests whatever it is that you are asking for...(see law of attraction of Michael Losier) and thats the frequency I am talking about. I am not saying Im operating at this frequency, I just think that this is the way it works... and like to explore if I can do the things Id like to do in this kind of way, lets say, you master yourself (thoughts, emotions) and learn how to operate this frequency...

Hope you understand my reasoning,

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:47 pm

interestingly your frequency explanation is a more coherent summary of jz's ramtha's Manifestation Intensives in the late 80's - just before the C&E and "School" thing started. ... And if it is true what you describe - isn't it like nuclear power and stem cell research and nanotechnology - yes, we got the "power" - but do we have the consciousness, the regard for Life, the values, the ethics, to use these "tools" for the good of all and not simply for selfish means. The 21st century seems to have a consciousness of 'since we can we will' - no more 'social' boundaries. To me, so what if someone can read every card every time and win lots of money at a casino, so what? - because to me "enlightenment" or spirituality isn't about a 'deeper' level of manipulating the world around me for my own needs. When there's busyness with this instant manifestation thing, my creative self has this image of a "Ramster"/Instant Manifester driving along an interstate highway at 70 miles an hour and someone tailgates his car then pulls around and cuts back barely missing his cars front end, and the Ramster/Instant Manifester yells "F...k YOU!" -- Instant manifestation.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:56 pm

Another Dimension60 wrote:interestingly your frequency explanation is a more coherent summary of jz's ramtha's Manifestation Intensives in the late 80's - just before the C&E and "School" thing started. ... And if it is true what you describe - isn't it like nuclear power and stem cell research and nanotechnology - yes, we got the "power" - but do we have the consciousness, the regard for Life, the values, the ethics, to use these "tools" for the good of all and not simply for selfish means. The 21st century seems to have a consciousness of 'since we can we will' - no more 'social' boundaries. To me, so what if someone can read every card every time and win lots of money at a casino, so what? - because to me "enlightenment" or spirituality isn't about a 'deeper' level of manipulating the world around me for my own needs. When there's busyness with this instant manifestation thing, my creative self has this image of a "Ramster"/Instant Manifester driving along an interstate highway at 70 miles an hour and someone tailgates his car then pulls around and cuts back barely missing his cars front end, and the Ramster/Instant Manifester yells "F...k YOU!" -- Instant manifestation.
Lol, I actually explained that more coherent? Haha, I should start my own school! Ill call it: Pete's-big-happy-we-manifest-you-free-Yelm-area-bunker-or-official-Pete-hat/boa-if-you-join-today-enlightenment-university (TM). Initiation will be burning down a tent at RSE... Or paint go home Ramsters! on their cars... Sorry, got carried away....

And I completely follow your story and agree with it, and am planning to go for the compassion way as well... but I think it doesnt matter in the end (maybe wrong, its how I think it is)

So let me explain that: I think when you learn how it works, you come to a junction in your life, and that both ways lead to the same point, only one of them is shorter than the other one. So, you can have the selfish way or the compassionate and love your enviroment way, and have the same things as the selfish way, but they are not the goal of that path. You achieve them without any effort. They all lead to the same point I guess.

So what I think is that you have on one side the ego (Ramsters) and the other side the soul (EMF) and they will all arrive at the same destination in the end of the day, only EMF will be there just a little faster. Trying to make a comparisation of some sort... Hope you know what I mean...

Greetings,

P

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Unread post by Tree » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:22 pm

my creative self has this image of a "Ramster"/Instant Manifester driving along an interstate highway at 70 miles an hour and someone tailgates his car then pulls around and cuts back barely missing his cars front end, and the Ramster/Instant Manifester yells "F...k YOU!" -- Instant manifestation.
OMG!!! freakin' funny!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:02 am

My tread is sleeping, cannot agree with that...

Oh, did I mention I registered for the followup event?

Your Pal,

Pete

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Unread post by G2G » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:13 pm

Enlighten me objectively wrote:My tread is sleeping, cannot agree with that...

Oh, did I mention I registered for the followup event?

Your Pal,

Pete
Highway to the danger zone! Hope you're kidding. I was in that "trap" as well, thinking "Oh, I'll learn more next time." I learned, but it wasn't about teachings. I learned how cruel the staff and JZ as Ramtha can be. I learned the hypocrisies of the teachings. You will learn on your own, whichever route you choose.
Bless you.
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972

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Unread post by joe sz » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:10 pm

So let me explain that: I think when you learn how it works, you come to a junction in your life, and that both ways lead to the same point, only one of them is shorter than the other one. So, you can have the selfish way or the compassionate and love your enviroment way, and have the same things as the selfish way, but they are not the goal of that path. You achieve them without any effort. They all lead to the same point I guess.
maybe guess again, Grasshopper.
Yes, all paths lead to same point---death, but not all gravestones say same thing:
"Here lies another faithful follower of Ramtha"
not same as
"All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia". [not on W C Fields' grave but good legend anyway] :lol:

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Unread post by Kensho » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:26 pm

EMO,

You say that you are "planning to go for the compassionate way as well..." but I am not clear on what you mean. What do you refer to when you say "As well"? Compassionate way and__________?

Also to what or to whom does your compassion extend? Is it conditional and if so, on what does it depend?

Your many posts make an interesting read but my perception is that you feel that you are immune to the mind control and abuse of the many aspects of human nature by RSE. Is it simply because you have more information than most who enter RSE about others' experiences of RSE regarding what may or may not go on there?
From reading your posts, I must assume that the information provided on this forum will not protect you from being manipulated by RSE. I say this simply as an observation and not as a judgement in the hope that you will recognize a potential downfall before it takes you under. By what you have revealed on this forum, you seem to be open to behavioural manipulation.

A simple case in point. You attribute a clarity of your mind to how you choose to live your life and include examples like vegetarianism and adoption of Buddhist philosophy, meditation etc. In acceptance that you may not have revealed all of your understanding of these things on this forum I remain unconvinced that you have "thought things through to completion." You will know what the latter part of the statement refers to if you have adopted the Buddhist philosophy; otherwise ask your meditation teacher and perhaps he will explain it.

Did you realize that many Buddhists, including monastics are not strictly vegetarian? Think about it. What sort of vegetation grows high in the mountains of Tibet or India where some of the greatest Buddhist monasteries are? These are closed to the public for months at a time during the spring rains retreats so what are they eating? In fact, the teaching is to eat what is given (that is apparently what poisoned the Buddha - a gift of food). I know that monastics eat what is available according to where they find themselves and to what is offered to them in alms because I have lived that life.
But by your reasoning, you are more clear than they who take flesh as food.
Do you use animal products of any sort? Leather, soap, oils, perfumes? These too go into your body. How much is your clarity of mind influenced by strict adherence to vegetarianism? Valid points for contemplation if one is desiring to truly know their own mind, are they not?

My point is that from a perspective of one's own mind it is natural to assume that we make our decisions consciously and through careful thought; when in reality we may simply be adopting a status quo that seems to resonate with us. Because you apparently have practice in basing your decision making on adoption of what others profess to be correct, I fear that you will also adopt some of the reasoning put forward at RSE. I am not saying it is right or wrong at this point, I am simply trying to point out that you may be in for more than you bargained for by dancing with RSE.

From the ground of experience, this much I can tell you. If generating and enhancing your innate compassionate nature is your goal as alluded to in your post, the path to and of RSE is not necessary and may even detract from it. Granted you may obtain greater insight in the workings of your own mind or the nature of attitudes and emotions; separate from the ego. Therein lies the seat of compassion, but if first hand experience is deemed to be necessary for you, do you pay attention to and seriously contemplate anything that has been posted by those who have experience with the path of RSE?

As stated before, I wish you an easy path.

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:45 pm

G2G wrote:
Enlighten me objectively wrote:My tread is sleeping, cannot agree with that...

Oh, did I mention I registered for the followup event?

Your Pal,

Pete
Highway to the danger zone! Hope you're kidding. I was in that "trap" as well, thinking "Oh, I'll learn more next time." I learned, but it wasn't about teachings. I learned how cruel the staff and JZ as Ramtha can be. I learned the hypocrisies of the teachings. You will learn on your own, whichever route you choose.
Bless you.
Trying to wake up my tread :-) Didnt register..

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:51 pm

joe sz wrote:
So let me explain that: I think when you learn how it works, you come to a junction in your life, and that both ways lead to the same point, only one of them is shorter than the other one. So, you can have the selfish way or the compassionate and love your enviroment way, and have the same things as the selfish way, but they are not the goal of that path. You achieve them without any effort. They all lead to the same point I guess.
maybe guess again, Grasshopper.
Yes, all paths lead to same point---death, but not all gravestones say same thing:
"Here lies another faithful follower of Ramtha"
not same as
"All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia". [not on W C Fields' grave but good legend anyway] :lol:
Lol Joe,

I'll have: "Here lies Pete's body, he took over Joe's while he was getting a cup of tea in his kitchen at 01:00 am" :D

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:55 pm

unbound wrote:EMO,

You say that you are "planning to go for the compassionate way as well..." but I am not clear on what you mean. What do you refer to when you say "As well"? Compassionate way and__________? I ment that Im not following RSE in their way of making the world a better place, I mean I have more respect for Buddhism, Christianity,... where they see mankind as a whole, and work together for a better life here on earth. So I 'too' join the philosophy of being compassionate and try to work as one...

Also to what or to whom does your compassion extend? Is it conditional and if so, on what does it depend?
[color=#]It should be unconditional, but in reality, its not always the case with me.

Your many posts make an interesting read but my perception is that you feel that you are immune to the mind control and abuse of the many aspects of human nature by RSE. Is it simply because you have more information than most who enter RSE about others' experiences of RSE regarding what may or may not go on there? EMF helped me a lot with reading stories about the bunkers, suicides,... and lets not forget the members. Here in Europe you'll find lots of ppl that will help you for a little bit of money, to pay for their time, transport, ... like 10 $ for an hour, and they do pretty nice things for that. All those ppl are non commercial. And there are those who do it for free as well... Now RSE, where you sleep in your own tent and have to pay for your food, was from the beginning classified as extremely commercial to me. And of course they try to sell you anything they can, do anything to keep he cash flowing.
From reading your posts, I must assume that the information provided on this forum will not protect you from being manipulated by RSE. I say this simply as an observation and not as a judgement in the hope that you will recognize a potential downfall before it takes you under. By what you have revealed on this forum, you seem to be open to behavioural manipulation. It would be nice if you would add some argumentation with that, makes it easier for me to answer you in more a accurate way... You have an observation, thats ok, then because of that you hope that I recognize a potential downfall, fine as well, but I would love to give you a reassuring feeling again if I only knew what that observation is all about...

A simple case in point. You attribute a clarity of your mind to how you choose to live your life and include examples like vegetarianism and adoption of Buddhist philosophy, meditation etc. In acceptance that you may not have revealed all of your understanding of these things on this forum I remain unconvinced that you have "thought things through to completion." You will know what the latter part of the statement refers to if you have adopted the Buddhist philosophy; otherwise ask your meditation teacher and perhaps he will explain it. There is nothing to explain regarding that statement 8)

Did you realize that many Buddhists, including monastics are not strictly vegetarian? Think about it. Buddhists ARE vegetarian: the reason: eating meat is in conflict with the first rule that states you should not kill or harm man or animal with the result of death. They even have vegetables that are forbidden. Also would eating meat be in conflict with Karuna. What sort of vegetation grows high in the mountains of Tibet or India where some of the greatest Buddhist monasteries are? These are closed to the public for months at a time during the spring rains retreats so what are they eating? In fact, the teaching is to eat what is given In fact, they drink Lama milk for months instead of eating the Lama (that is apparently what poisoned the Buddha - a gift of food). Buddha did accept that gift, and ate whatever was given in those days, that has altered over the years, some say he knew the food was poisoned, but accepted it for sake of the giver...I know that monastics eat what is available according to where they find themselves and to what is offered to them in alms because I have lived that life. Sure, then you are aware that certain foods affect your consciousness, some will create lust, others will give you a bad mood... If you were able to maintain equanimity, thats very cool I think.
But by your reasoning, you are more clear than they who take flesh as food. Yes I am, and not only that, I have more energy...I know the difference since I have been eating meat for years....
Do you use animal products of any sort? Leather, soap, oils, perfumes? These too go into your body. How much is your clarity of mind influenced by strict adherence to vegetarianism? Valid points for contemplation if one is desiring to truly know their own mind, are they not? Definatly, I dont use animal based products... If I do, it slipped my attention or there was nothing else available, like eg soap...

My point is that from a perspective of one's own mind it is natural to assume that we make our decisions consciously and through careful thought; when in reality we may simply be adopting a status quo that seems to resonate with us. Because you apparently have practice in basing your decision making on adoption of what others profess to be correct, I repeatedly told EMF I follow my intuition, and test out the things I find interesting enough, pay attention because you are not reading this tread proporly...:D I fear that you will also adopt some of the reasoning put forward at RSE. I am not saying it is right or wrong at this point, I am simply trying to point out that you may be in for more than you bargained for by dancing with RSE. [color=#]My girfriend is a dancer, she dances my world, not RSE

From the ground of experience, this much I can tell you. If generating and enhancing your innate compassionate nature is your goal as alluded to in your post, the path to and of RSE is not necessary and may even detract from it. Again: repeatedly posted about how I dont agree with their attitude Granted you may obtain greater insight in the workings of your own mind or the nature of attitudes and emotions; separate from the ego. Therein lies the seat of compassion, but if first hand experience is deemed to be necessary for you, do you pay attention to and seriously contemplate anything that has been posted by those who have experience with the path of RSE? Lol, I could ask you the same question about my posts, but I know you are sincere and dont wish me to end up in that horrible place, you arent taking any chances are you? :lol:

As stated before, I wish you an easy path.

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Unread post by Kensho » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:19 am

EMO,
I truly do wish you an easy path.

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:37 pm

Enlighten me objectively Pete,

Are you open to a telephone conversation?
:-)

David
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Unread post by Tree » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:37 pm

maybe you two can use skype as it would be a very long distance call!

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:06 pm

Tree wrote:maybe you two can use skype as it would be a very long distance call!
Sure... I have a Skype adress... exciting !!!! Why do you wanna call me? Are you still thinking Im going to join RSE?

Never used Skype intercontinental but used it when I was in Berlin, works great, and costs you nothing, from PC to PC...

But be aware its 6 hours later here in Belgium, we have to agree on a certain time...
We can turn on the webcam and have that cup of tea David :-)

You should also be aware english is not my mothertongue... but Ill manage...

Anyone who wants to call me:

petestarling@gmail.com

looking forward to it,

Pete

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:17 pm

skype is wonderful..
I recommend it to everyone.

I prefer a regular phone line for our conversation though.
If you wish... you can Email me your Tel #. I will call you.
LARSE@Ywave.com

thanks...

David
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:49 pm

David McCarthy wrote:skype is wonderful..
I recommend it to everyone.

I prefer a regular phone line for our conversation though.
If you wish... you can Email me your Tel #. I will call you.
LARSE@Ywave.com

thanks...

David
David,

I dont have a fix line where I live...

And calling to my cell will be very expensive...

but you have a PC, if you have a headset you could call me for free... You can also make conference calls with other Skypers if there are ppl that want to join the debate...

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:54 pm

unbound wrote:EMO,
I truly do wish you an easy path.
Wish you the same mate ;-)

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:09 pm

And calling to my cell will be very expensive...
No problem....

I will call you on your cell phone.

David.
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:51 pm

David,

Thats ok if you want it this way, but lets agree on a certain hour...

I can have that conversation from tomorrow afternoon...

Ive send you an email with my cell phone number, mail me when, so I can keep some time free in my agenda tomorrow... or the day after...

Greetz,

Pete

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:00 pm

Great..
Thank you
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:15 pm

David McCarthy wrote:Great..
Thank you
No problemo, I have 6 $ left from my trip to Yelm, send me your adress as well and you can have those as my part in the conversation... Ill send you a nice postcard.

Pete

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:10 pm

Hello EMO
'Oh, did I mention I registered for the followup event?'
Do you mean the Follow-up in Yelm in Sep or Oct? You are very organized as it's months away. There are no refunds or transfers if you have paid.

I can understand why you would want to explore the teachings more. I'm sure the others here will discourage you based on their many years of experience.


Caterpillar

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:40 pm

Caterpillar wrote:Hello EMO
'Oh, did I mention I registered for the followup event?'
Do you mean the Follow-up in Yelm in Sep or Oct? You are very organized as it's months away. There are no refunds or transfers if you have paid.

I can understand why you would want to explore the teachings more. I'm sure the others here will discourage you based on their many years of experience.


Caterpillar
I didnt register, I was trying to get members posting again, im sorry... :cry:

Wont do that again... promise... :cry:

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Disingenuousness

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:44 pm

Enlighten me objectively Pete,
Oh, did I mention I registered for the follow up event?
Would you care to elaborate why you would post something so disingenuous ?..

David.
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Re: Disingenuousness

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:49 am

David McCarthy wrote:Enlighten me objectively Pete,
Oh, did I mention I registered for the follow up event?
Would you care to elaborate why you would post something so disingenuous ?..

David.
I had a few reasons...

To keep this tread alive because nobody was posting
To see what kind of reactions I would get... testing.
To have less serious posts and have a little nonsence in between

I figured with all the critical thinking in here, you wouldnt take that seriously, and on top of that, by my posts earlier on, you would know I wasnt going to do such a foolish and expensive thing...

The posts after made me realize how deep this goes, yet I was hoping members would snap out of that therapeutist character... this is life! Lets have a break from time to time and have a laugh at the whole RSE situation... BAD things have happened, but you cant change that anymore can you? What you can do is take it less seriously and let go the compulsive fear (thats an observation too) about other people, by provoking eachother. You people test me all the time...

Now why have a laugh with such a sensitive subject on this board? Fear blocks life, and blocks open conversation... I wouldnt post such a thing if I knew it would hurt peoples feelings, And it doesnt, You never met me, you dont know who I am. I only try to help you see what is going on, like EMF made me see whats going on at that ranch in Yelm. Isnt that what EMF is all about? Have proper conversation? Have enlightenment for free?

Dont make me do it! Dont make me register!!!!! :-x (...)

Pete

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:26 am

Well on that note....:roll:

I will recommend to the moderators to lock this thread.
Its high time we started new topic..
(NPD) 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder' on EMF.

Fasten your seat belts, we will be passing through some turbulence here...!

David.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissist ... y_disorder
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Re: Disingenuousness

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:03 am

Enlighten me objectively wrote:I had a few reasons...

To keep this tread alive because nobody was posting
To see what kind of reactions I would get... testing.
To have less serious posts and have a little nonsence in between

I figured with all the critical thinking in here, you wouldnt take that seriously, and on top of that, by my posts earlier on, you would know I wasnt going to do such a foolish and expensive thing...

The posts after made me realize how deep this goes, yet I was hoping members would snap out of that therapeutist character... this is life! Lets have a break from time to time and have a laugh at the whole RSE situation... BAD things have happened, but you cant change that anymore can you? What you can do is take it less seriously and let go the compulsive fear (thats an observation too) about other people, by provoking eachother. You people test me all the time...

Now why have a laugh with such a sensitive subject on this board? Fear blocks life, and blocks open conversation... I wouldnt post such a thing if I knew it would hurt peoples feelings, And it doesnt, You never met me, you dont know who I am. I only try to help you see what is going on, like EMF made me see whats going on at that ranch in Yelm. Isnt that what EMF is all about? Have proper conversation? Have enlightenment for free?

Dont make me do it! Dont make me register!!!!! Mad (...)
Hi Greetz Pete,

Were you feeling lonely on this thread ? Awww!! You weren't feelin' the love ? What do you want ? What do you need ? Tell us more ... about you !
There are lots of threads on EMF, Pete. Only a few of them are "active" at any given time. This one, too, will have "talked itself out" in its own time. Seems that has been the case.

I'm sure we're all old enough to know that without making anyone right or wrong, there are all sorts of ways to perceive things. You don't know me, but I assure you I have a sense of humor, as do many of the posters on EMF. I tend toward a dry humor, but whatever. Irrelevant.

Did you and David have a phone chat ? Would like to hear about that !! Do tell !!


:!:

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Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:10 am

Did you and David have a phone chat ? Would like to hear about that !! Do tell !!
Unfortunately I couldn't get through to Pete, I think a problem with the country code.
I will try again later today.

David.

P.S.

I found this website very useful..

International Country Calling Codes and World Time Zones
http://www.countrycallingcodes.com/
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Re: Disingenuousness

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:42 am

Whatchamacallit wrote:
Hi Greetz Pete,

Were you feeling lonely on this thread ? Awww!! You weren't feelin' the love ? What do you want ? What do you need ? Tell us more ... about you !
There are lots of threads on EMF, Pete. Only a few of them are "active" at any given time. This one, too, will have "talked itself out" in its own time. Seems that has been the case.

I'm sure we're all old enough to know that without making anyone right or wrong, there are all sorts of ways to perceive things. You don't know me, but I assure you I have a sense of humor, as do many of the posters on EMF. I tend toward a dry humor, but whatever. Irrelevant.

Did you and David have a phone chat ? Would like to hear about that !! Do tell !!


:!:
Hi Whatcha,

You do have a funny sence of humor, like you show in your post... :D But thats not the point. Ive been telling about myself all along, you know more about me then I know about you... David did his best to figure out those codes, but didnt reach me yesterday, perhaps he will today... Im not telling about it, David will do that for me ;-)

Guess youre right, we should close up this tread. Enjoyed your posts, thanks for the conversations, the laughs, the pointing fingers part, the stories...

Enjoy summer!!! 8)

Pete

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:46 am

David McCarthy wrote:Well on that note....:roll:

I will recommend to the moderators to lock this thread.
Its high time we started new topic..
(NPD) 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder' on EMF.

Fasten your seat belts, we will be passing through some turbulence here...!

David.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissist ... y_disorder
DAVID!

Im really going to enjoy having that phone conversation young man! :lol:

You... you... ah just wait you... :shock:

Love you man, wish you well...

Thanks for the posts, enjoyed it very much,

You too: enjoy summer!!! ;-)

Bye,

Pete

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If you are ever in my country

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:49 am

If you are ever in my country:

Do let me know if you need something, place to stay, information, cup of tea...

Ill give you my adres:

Peter Jelena
Het Heike 17
3550 Heusden-Zolder

Or Skype me @ petestarling@gmail.com

I know Brussels and the other major cities well, so dont hesitate to contact me...

See ya?

Pete[/b]

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Unread post by Caterpillar » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:04 am

Hey EMO

Thanks for the laugh. I thought the thread didn't make sense.

Is your name/address real? :lol:

I enjoyed Brussels - only been once.

Caterpillar

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Re: Disingenuousness

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:26 pm

Enlighten me objectively wrote:Hi Whatcha,

You do have a funny sence of humor, like you show in your post... Very Happy But thats not the point. Ive been telling about myself all along, you know more about me then I know about you... David did his best to figure out those codes, but didnt reach me yesterday, perhaps he will today... Im not telling about it, David will do that for me Wink

Guess youre right, we should close up this tread. Enjoyed your posts, thanks for the conversations, the laughs, the pointing fingers part, the stories...

Enjoy summer!!! Cool

Pete
Pete, the "sense of humor" was MY point ;-) in response to your post.

I know David is really looking forward to having a chat with you ! I hope it all works out.

As for your comment that you've been self disclosing, and we have not...we know more about you than you do about us...well...how can I agree with that, when from my point of view, I have posted on EMF many hundreds of times, and shared quite a bit about myself, my RSE experiences (both GOOD and BAD), and even some personal information.

Surely, you wouldn't expect someone like me to repeat all that stuff ?! .... giggles .... I'd bore the readers to sleep, Pete !!!! If you want to know more about a person's posts and what they choose to reveal about themselves (hopefully honestly....but that's not guaranteed, right ?)...then you can take the time to read what we've all taken the time to post ! Three years worth of heartfelt posts from me, if you care to know about my opinions/experiences...they're but a click away ! Hmmm...maybe I ought to have them published. My Journey In and OUT of RSE !

Skipping merrily along ... :D

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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:11 pm

Caterpillar wrote:Hey EMO

Thanks for the laugh. I thought the thread didn't make sense.

Is your name/address real? :lol:

I enjoyed Brussels - only been once.

Caterpillar
Glad you had a laugh with it ;-)

Enjoy the summer...! 8)

Pete

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Re: Disingenuousness

Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:19 pm

Whatchamacallit wrote: Pete, the "sense of humor" was MY point ;-) in response to your post.

I know David is really looking forward to having a chat with you ! I hope it all works out.

As for your comment that you've been self disclosing, and we have not...we know more about you than you do about us...well...how can I agree with that, when from my point of view, I have posted on EMF many hundreds of times, and shared quite a bit about myself, my RSE experiences (both GOOD and BAD), and even some personal information.

Surely, you wouldn't expect someone like me to repeat all that stuff ?! .... giggles .... I'd bore the readers to sleep, Pete !!!! If you want to know more about a person's posts and what they choose to reveal about themselves (hopefully honestly....but that's not guaranteed, right ?)...then you can take the time to read what we've all taken the time to post ! Three years worth of heartfelt posts from me, if you care to know about my opinions/experiences...they're but a click away ! Hmmm...maybe I ought to have them published. My Journey In and OUT of RSE !

Skipping merrily along ... :D
Yeah youre right, I only took time to read the posts that interested me before I went to JZ's school of freaks, and after I just posted in this thread...
But be honest, I would spend weeks to read up on this forum....

Had part one of that conversation yesterday with David, was nice to actually hear him speak, instead of reading his posts, cause by reading about someones thoughts, you get this whole image about him, but if you actually hear him 'live', its a world of difference... I enjoyed it...

So, wish you well ;-)

P

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Re: Disingenuousness

Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:52 pm

Enlighten me objectively wrote:Yeah youre right, I only took time to read the posts that interested me before I went to JZ's school of freaks, and after I just posted in this thread...
But be honest, I would spend weeks to read up on this forum....

Had part one of that conversation yesterday with David, was nice to actually hear him speak, instead of reading his posts, cause by reading about someones thoughts, you get this whole image about him, but if you actually hear him 'live', its a world of difference... I enjoyed it...

So, wish you well Wink

P
Pete,

I will repeat this particular story, though I have posted it before. It will actually address your entire post ! Cool .

When I had gotten fed up with the deteriorating qualities in RSE, I was discussing doing two things in the same time frame.

1) I was discussing my observations about RSE with my family. They lovingly told me that it was their opinion that the time had come for me to leave. I agreed. BUT, we didn't take the conversation further than that. I had already paid in advance for a number of my seats (uggg). I also used that time to go back to RSE, because FOR ME, it was (as I've said a bunch of times before) very healing to go there, and NOT participate. I was slowly, steadily detaching from that place. All the while, I was literally seeing different things; the other people who would go hide in their RV's, the staff who would wander throughout the parking lot, and yell at any stragglers they found that "should have" been on the field.
Saw folks over at the food tents, chatting away.

I took those hours to go sit by myself. I kept a journal. I wrote about my thoughts, and my feelings about the event. I wrote about how hurt I was feeling. I made a list of "pros and cons" about RSE. How could something that was sometimes so good, be so bad ? In the end, I can sum it up by saying that I felt spiritually raped; and for good reason. I was. So were we all. The lies, the lies. The deception. The abuse I witnessed. The outrageous claims; unsubstantiated. It was time to leave.

2) I spent my time at home, researching. I looked online for information about cults, fraud, JZ Knight, fraud, Ramtha, RSE, whatever I could type into a search engine and get more info. I ordered a few books to read about cults.

3) By the time I was at my last event, which I knew was my last event, I was sort-of-ready. It still hurt. I felt kinda numb, though I cried all the say home on the plane. I cried for 4 months and then from 4-6 months afterward, I started putting my emotions into something positive; taking action and becoming pro-active. My very nature is that of a happy, well adjusted person. I got sucked into RSE because I have been extremely intuitive since I was a little girl, and RSE promised "more". Why not ? I even had a lot of success with the "disciplines". What I came to realize, was anything that I "succeeded" at, was not related to RSE. It was ME all along; didn't need RSE and it's coercive persuasion tactics, even though I didn't know that term at the time. I had identified wrongdoing and was willing to face it, not justify it as acceptable in the name of Ramtha. My attitude was and is, if that's "Ramtha's" attitude, resorting to abuse to teach, he's a jerk. At RSE, I learned about the RSE spin on eastern religions, and why they were wrong, because Ramtha had the whole story. (not) Enough, enough, enough.

4) One evening, I was searching "Ramtha fraud JZ Knight) online and I found FACTNet, an online message forum that had a folder for RSE. I spent WEEKS reading through the posts on there. I kept reading, in particular, posts by some guy named David McCarthy. I was skeptical, to a degree. Then, it happened. I found this article http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5860 and as I read it, and saw David's photo, I screamed to my husband, "I RECOGNIZE THIS GUY!!!" So, Pete, as you said, it's nice to speak on the phone ~ it was nice to do just that. I contacted David and we talked and talked a number of times. Couldn't understand him well with that accent of his ! (Of course, *I* don't have an accent, only he does....giggle....)

The end of the story is what you see here; EMF and LARSE.

This is just a general overview, and is leaving out a lot of detail. But, as I said, I spent WEEKS reading through posts. Not that anyone has to do that, but if one chooses to do that, you can't help but to get a feel for where we're coming from on here.

Life is so funny sometimes. I remember seeing David around the ranch, though I don't believe we've ever talked there. Never had him for a partner at an event. Now look at us. It really is a small world.

I suggest you keep reading

;-)

journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:35 pm

Hi Pete,

I was glad to see that your posting of going to the follow -up was just foolin' around. It saved me from writing the second half of a response I had been working on to try and understand your thought process in making your decision.

For some of us, we put time and effort into our responses. Responding to jokes with seriousness is not such a great recipe for respectful communication. Thank you for understanding this and setting the record straight

Elsewhere on the thread you responded to someone who was asking you how could you tell if the big dude was telling a lie or not in light of the fact that he/she/it had said that he/she/it would lie if necessary to teach.

Your response was that you would need to try it out to see if it was true or false or not.

Given that logic, if you saw a sign that appeared to be from the Coast Guard that said "do not swim in these waters, there are dangerous currents as well as sharks" would you jump in to find out if it is true or false or not? Or, if you read a warning that said "do not enter, danger of radiation poisoning" would you enter to find out? I suspect not and so, I am interested in why you would think differently about taking what the big dude says and feeling a need or desire to test it out? I would think a sign from the Coast Guard would seem on the surface at least far more valid then a 60 year old housewife claiming to channel a entity over 35,000 years old who has come back to teach everyone how to be the God that they forgot they were and by the way, send the check to the housewife for the rent of her body..........

Also, when I asked you questions about doing the "disciplines" and seeing if they work, I asked you how much time (and as I think of it effort) you were willing to put into it in order to determine their efficacy. I am not sure if you saw that part of my question , but I am still wondering as to what your answer is. If answering any of my questions makes you uncomfortable, just tell me and I will not ask them again or follow up on them with no hard feelings on either side I would hope.

Your response to my questioning the ability of an "entity to deceive" you responded that even humans were able to do that so why not the entities? However you didn't see why they would. How about because they could???

In addition, you say that you could see that "..they try to suck you in with all sorts of techniques..." Does the "they", include the big dude??? or is he so limited that he does not have any control over policy and the techniques used in the "teachings' as well as the rest of the marketing?

I had asked you if you went to RSE for entertainment because in your introduction when you gave your reasons for going, you said because you had already booked the flight and registered for the event. Later on in your postings, after attending it sounded like you went for other reasons.

And yes, I am sure the reasons I asked you the questions was for the reasons previously stated. I did not ask you about your use of Vipassana meditative techniques because that is not the nature of the discussion on the forum. I prefer to stick to the techniques, patterns of behavior, and authenticity claims by RSE of so called healings, miracles, past lives, "godly" powers etc. so as not to stray outside the boundaries of the forum. There are plenty of other forums for discussing the various forms of spirituality as well as practices.

Thanks again for your responses and willingness to engage in a discussion about yourself and RSE.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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Enlighten me objectively
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:53 am

journeythroughramthaland wrote:Hi Pete,

I was glad to see that your posting of going to the follow -up was just foolin' around. It saved me from writing the second half of a response I had been working on to try and understand your thought process in making your decision.

For some of us, we put time and effort into our responses. Responding to jokes with seriousness is not such a great recipe for respectful communication. Thank you for understanding this and setting the record straight

Elsewhere on the thread you responded to someone who was asking you how could you tell if the big dude was telling a lie or not in light of the fact that he/she/it had said that he/she/it would lie if necessary to teach.

Your response was that you would need to try it out to see if it was true or false or not.

Given that logic, if you saw a sign that appeared to be from the Coast Guard that said "do not swim in these waters, there are dangerous currents as well as sharks" would you jump in to find out if it is true or false or not? Or, if you read a warning that said "do not enter, danger of radiation poisoning" would you enter to find out? I suspect not and so, I am interested in why you would think differently about taking what the big dude says and feeling a need or desire to test it out? I would think a sign from the Coast Guard would seem on the surface at least far more valid then a 60 year old housewife claiming to channel a entity over 35,000 years old who has come back to teach everyone how to be the God that they forgot they were and by the way, send the check to the housewife for the rent of her body..........It comes down to estimating the value of testing it. Like you said, you probably wont go out swimming and see for yourself if you would be eaten by a nasty shark. On the other hand, there is value in affirmations, candle-focus... To test these things is a noble persuit. You gain knowledge about yourself, you enlarge your perspective, you get wiser... In the worst case, you lost some money, but thats replacable.. And I know what you are thinking, you probably think about the damage that school has done, and how I would be vulnareble to indoctrination... well, if I know JZ is a big nasty shark, and there are people I know about that have got sucked into that current, would I take a swim out in the open or would I stay at the shore up to my waist in the water?

Also, when I asked you questions about doing the "disciplines" and seeing if they work, I asked you how much time (and as I think of it effort) you were willing to put into it in order to determine their efficacy. I am not sure if you saw that part of my question , but I am still wondering as to what your answer is. If answering any of my questions makes you uncomfortable, just tell me and I will not ask them again or follow up on them with no hard feelings on either side I would hope. I am not doing those things very intensively, lets say both about 15-20 min a day. Your questions dont make me feel uncomfortable, its not about that, its being analized, being dissected on behalf of my posts, that makes me uncomfortable, you cant have an entire mental profile based upon someones posts. If I write a sentence, and let it read by 10 different readers, no 6 billion different readers, they will all interperet it differently, based upon their own experience, based upon their own believes and perception. That shows little respect towards me, sounds harsh, but I dont mean it that way, because Im well aware of your experiences at RSE. It sounds like you think I dont know any better, like Im some kind of fool that has to be saved from the big bad boogieman... Yet Ive been posting my *** off to make clear I agree with you on the cult-tactics. That also makes me see how well they are at it, and I noticed that when I was in Yelm. Its also about the freedom to choose, to have your own free will and respect that. Let me ask you a question, if your best friend comes up to you and says he is going to drink himself to death, would you respect that? There is a difference with respecting it and trying to avoid it, answer me that, Im curious...

Your response to my questioning the ability of an "entity to deceive" you responded that even humans were able to do that so why not the entities? However you didn't see why they would. How about because they could??? There has to be a reason I think, with no reason they arent going to do that. I couldnt see any reason why an entity would be doing that. Because they could? I dont understand that as a reason, maybe you can fill me in on your point of view, I guess I dont understand, or at least, the way you mean it... What would they gain from it? Power, entertainment, skills to deceive?

In addition, you say that you could see that "..they try to suck you in with all sorts of techniques..." Does the "they", include the big dude??? or is he so limited that he does not have any control over policy and the techniques used in the "teachings' as well as the rest of the marketing? I used to be a very skilled trainer, and am still... If you wanna teach something like this (healing, levitating, bilocating,...) I would follow this model:
Apply the technique yourself, make a clear example of what it is they will try to achieve (eg levitating)
Do it together (levitate and give them intstructions a secont time, while they join you)
Let them do it by themselves (Let them practice)
Now: did you ever see Ramtha shoot an arrow straight into the bulls eye? I guess you didnt, nobody did..
Well, now the question, if he cant even supply an example to his students of the skills he is teaching, can he really take control over an entire school, from policy to marketing? We both know the answer...
Does that mean there isnt a Ramtha out there? I didnt say that... And why would he allow JZ to continue to do so? He will have a proper reason if he is out there, otherwise he wouldnt be doing it. Or it could also be he isnt out there and its a fantasy JZ made up, I wont be judging about that for now..


I had asked you if you went to RSE for entertainment because in your introduction when you gave your reasons for going, you said because you had already booked the flight and registered for the event. Later on in your postings, after attending it sounded like you went for other reasons. My first reason was to learn, then I found out about this place and was feeling bad about having already payed and booked the flight, and then after I got back, I kind of got into this black-white conversation, while I saw the whole thing grey, because it was sad and nice at the same time. If I remember I posted, its a mix of the most beautifull intentions and ideas, together with the most sad attitudes and outcomes or someting. My reasons didnt change, and the only reason I would go back is to have a chat with JZ, not as student-teacher, but as Pete-Ramtha/JZ... And what happened is that I kind of gave the idea I got sucked in because of the whole thing being allround a positive experience, finding out the truth about it felt good, it was good to see for myself what kind of place that really is...

And yes, I am sure the reasons I asked you the questions was for the reasons previously stated. I did not ask you about your use of Vipassana meditative techniques because that is not the nature of the discussion on the forum. I prefer to stick to the techniques, patterns of behavior, and authenticity claims by RSE of so called healings, miracles, past lives, "godly" powers etc. so as not to stray outside the boundaries of the forum. There are plenty of other forums for discussing the various forms of spirituality as well as practices. You stated you were asking these questions to give me insight in what it was I was looking for, how were you planning to do that on a message board? Frankly, its meant to have conversation, share information, never to penetrate inside ones mind and build up a profile where you can work with. I could be anybody, posting about whatever I want you to believe that I am. It has been done before David told me. If you would try to do that, you would call me (or skype me) like David did... I think you were in fear that I would go to that second event. And you were merely testing me with those questions. You wanted to be sure that I wouldnt attend a second event.

Thanks again for your responses and willingness to engage in a discussion about yourself and RSE. No prob mate, enjoyed your post :-)

journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:03 am

Hi Pete,
Thanks for your response!
You stated you were asking these questions to give me insight in what it was I was looking for, how were you planning to do that on a message board? Frankly, its meant to have conversation, share information, never to penetrate inside ones mind and build up a profile where you can work with. I could be anybody, posting about whatever I want you to believe that I am. It has been done before David told me. If you would try to do that, you would call me (or skype me) like David did... I think you were in fear that I would go to that second event. And you were merely testing me with those questions. You wanted to be sure that I wouldnt attend a second event.
I am sorry you had that impression, I wanted to understand the context of your reasoning from YOU so that you could give me your insights as I assume they will be much more on the money then my own. When I get my skype going I would enjoy speaking with you I am sure.

I wasn't in fear of you going to another event, it just sounded out of character from what you had been saying in the past and I wondered what was going on, you cleared that up.

Fortunately for me, I understand that I am not ultimately responsible for who goes and who does not go to RSE.

I used to be a very skilled trainer, and am still... If you wanna teach something like this (healing, levitating, bilocating,...) I would follow this model:
Apply the technique yourself, make a clear example of what it is they will try to achieve (eg levitating)
Do it together (levitate and give them intstructions a secont time, while they join you)
Let them do it by themselves (Let them practice)
Now: did you ever see Ramtha shoot an arrow straight into the bulls eye? I guess you didnt, nobody did..
Well, now the question, if he cant even supply an example to his students of the skills he is teaching, can he really take control over an entire school, from policy to marketing? We both know the answer...
A very astute observation, one that I have wondered about why this is not brought up more often by those at the "school" and how does it get rationalized away. We know that good teachers pretty much at a minimum would demonstrate and teach in the manner you describe.

Does that mean there isn't a Ramtha out there? I didnt say that... And why would he allow JZ to continue to do so? He will have a proper reason if he is out there, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it. Or it could also be he isnt out there and its a fantasy JZ made up, I wont be judging about that for now..
Hate to be a stickler on this, but if one takes the big dude at his word that he would lie to "teach" his/her/its students then wouldn't one have to accept that there really is no "proper " reason because there could not be an "improper" one because if there was a improper one he wouldn't be doing it so it wouldn't exist??? :-?
....It comes down to estimating the value of testing it. Like you said, you probably wont go out swimming and see for yourself if you would be eaten by a nasty shark. On the other hand, there is value in affirmations, candle-focus... To test these things is a noble persuit. You gain knowledge about yourself, you enlarge your perspective, you get wiser... In the worst case, you lost some money, but thats replacable.. And I know what you are thinking, you probably think about the damage that school has done, and how I would be vulnareble to indoctrination... well, if I know JZ is a big nasty shark, and there are people I know about that have got sucked into that current, would I take a swim out in the open or would I stay at the shore up to my waist in the water?
LOL I am a surfer so I have a certain special perspective on our sharky buddies. When I don my wet-suit, I am always aware of how mush closer to looking like a seal I am.....hmmm.....waves better be worth it! And, if I recall correctly, there are more shark attacks in waist high water because the shark gets disoriented and panics in the shallow water and will bite its way through anything to find its way out.

I hardly think you are some wayward victim falling pry to RSE, your participation here substantiates that.
I am not doing those things very intensively, lets say both about 15-20 min a day. Your questions dont make me feel uncomfortable, its not about that, its being analized, being dissected on behalf of my posts, that makes me uncomfortable, you cant have an entire mental profile based upon someones posts. If I write a sentence, and let it read by 10 different readers, no 6 billion different readers, they will all interperet it differently, based upon their own experience, based upon their own believes and perception. That shows little respect towards me, sounds harsh, but I dont mean it that way, because Im well aware of your experiences at RSE. It sounds like you think I dont know any better, like Im some kind of fool that has to be saved from the big bad boogieman... Yet Ive been posting my *** off to make clear I agree with you on the cult-tactics. That also makes me see how well they are at it, and I noticed that when I was in Yelm. Its also about the freedom to choose, to have your own free will and respect that. Let me ask you a question, if your best friend comes up to you and says he is going to drink himself to death, would you respect that? There is a difference with respecting it and trying to avoid it, answer me that, Im curious...
Sorry if I came off as wanting to profile you. I recognize your individuality and would not assume about you other then what you tell me and if I don't understand, I tend to ask more questions. You are not alone in feeling analyzed by my questions. I apologize, it was not my intention Please feel free to mention it if it occurs again.

As to your question, I can answer because for me it is not hypothetical. I assume by respect you mean to hold in esteem or high regard. in that sense I would not respect the decision. I may have some understanding of it but I do not see what value would come from my holding such a behavior in high regard or esteem.
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner

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intuition

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:28 am

Hello Pete,

I just want to jump in here and share my thoughts about something that has been on my mind since you posted.........
I repeatedly told EMF I follow my intuition, and test out the things I find interesting enough,
My understanding of the meaning of the word intuition, goes along the lines of...
A means of instinctive and unconscious knowing without deduction or reasoning.
Perhaps even overlapping into what is called Extra-sensory perception (ESP), or the sixth sense.

In hindsight, it was also my intuition that failed to recognize the RSE "Ramtha" trap that I fell "in slow motion" headlong into.
Until then I regarded my ?intuition? as the gold standard of ?knowingness? in life, .
That is? until all the life and intuiton had been so robbed out of me by the RSE ?spiritual piracy?,
eventually leaving me struggling for my sanity and survival, shipwrecked and devastated on the shores of life.
Please don?t misunderstand me, I cherish my intuition still, especially as a music composer? but now I better understand that it is not infallible, and my ?knowingness? couldn?t have been less knowing?! even though I called myself a ?Master??of the great Work".
I recently came across an article titled..
When intuition misfires?
Enjoy.
I look forward to ?part two? of our conversation soon.

David.

**********************

Intuition
"The intuitive system will be faulty when the world conspires against us to present information that is misleading."
Tom Gilovich
Cornell University


When intuition misfires
Intuition helps us understand the world--except when it's wrong. What are the causes and consequences of its faults?
BY MARK GREER

A craps player must roll an 11 to win his bet. Hoping to do so, he shakes his clasped hands vigorously then fires the two dice at the felt table. Instead, he rolls a four.
On his next turn, the magic number is lower--three. He delicately cradles then gingerly tosses the dice. He gets a seven and loses.
The gambler believes he can control the dice by how he throws them--a hard roll for a big number and a soft roll for a low number--even though the result is pure chance, explains Tom Gilovich, PhD, a psychology professor at Cornell University, who uses the example to show how people irrationally intuit events. "We think a big cause should create a big effect," he says. "People think, 'If I roll the die hard I'm more likely to get a big number.'"
Such logic may seem silly from the outside. Yet we've all felt we could make certain judgments, even if we later acknowledge our decisions lacked an iota of logic. We go with our gut, yet our intuition often fails us, psychologists say. So why do we still rely on it?
Research suggests that intuition, despite its flaws, is integral to our thinking. Some say it helps us to make connections between events to understand a chaotic world, and others suggest it's necessary for us because we must have some immediate apperception of events.
Yet sometimes we are too eager to find connections, so we create them when none exist. And while using that bias at a craps game is relatively harmless, such thinking causes larger problems--from miscalculating quantity to choosing the wrong person for the job, psychologists say. What's worse, it's a tough bias to overcome.
"I've argued that thinking about alternatives helps," says Jonathan Baron, PhD, a psychology professor at the University of Pennsylvania. "But it doesn't seem to help everything."
Desperately seeking something
A basketball player hits five straight shots. "He's on fire!" the announcer exclaims. Yet his next five shots miss. What happened to his hot hand? Nothing--it never existed, says Gilovich, author of "How We Know What Isn't So" (Simon and Schuster, 1993).
People's intuition derives from a desire to find patterns and connections in--and to figure out how to act within--an otherwise random universe. So when a player sinks five straight shots, we think those shots are interconnected and label the player "on fire," Gilovich says, even though those shots are largely independent of one another.
Sometimes people overestimate their intuition and prevent sound decision-making. For example, employers think they can do a better job of predicting employees' future performance through interviews than they can through factors like education and test scores. However, the scores are actually better at predicting someone's performance, finds research using standard statistical regression analyses by Robyn Dawes, PhD, a professor in Carnegie Mellon University's department of social and decision sciences. Yet people still have a desire to interview people for positions because the illusion is so powerful, suggests Richard Nisbett, PhD, of the University of Michigan.
"No unstructured interview for any kind of position--graduate school, medical school, the military or professional jobs--has anything but a low validity for predicting the interviewees future performance," he says. "But we can't contain it. You meet someone and the feeling that you know who that person is after talking to them is just overwhelming."
And sometimes intuition defies logic in our decision-making. Seymour Epstein, PhD, an emeritus psychology professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, and his colleagues demonstrated that people often ignore probability when teased by their gut intuition. Participants tried to draw a red jelly bean from jars of either 10 or 100 beans, most of which were white. The 100-bean jar contained seven red beans and the 10-bean jar contained one red bean. Even though the odds of drawing a red bean were better for the 10-bean jar (10 percent) than the 100-bean jar (7 percent), more participants chose to pick from the 100-bean jar. Why? Because the 100-bean jar actually had more red beans, and people's gut intuition indicated they would fare better in that jar because there were more red beans to pick.
The study, in the 1994 Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 66, No. 5), found that conflicted participants, though fully aware of their irrational decision, trusted their intuition that more red beans meant better chances to win over their understanding of probability. The finding suggests a dual-mind process, the researchers argue. Their logic told them to pick from the 10-bean jar, and their intuition directed them to the 100-bean jar--but their intuition was wrong in this case.
"If people are being pulled in two directions," Gilovich says, "it suggests there are two minds pulling--one deliberate and one intuitive."
Mechanics of the mind
Gilovich calls these two minds "system one" and "system two." System one is intuitive, rooted in personal experience, imbued with emotion and interested in here-and-now situations. System two draws on logic and deduction, plods slowly through each hypothetical situation, analyzes the odds and selects the most rational decision.
System one's advantage is its quick, survival-based decisions, such as assessing the potential threat from a stranger on a dark street, Gilovich says. Because intuition operates on a gut level, its judgment is compelling. People develop heuristics--mindsets to view the world--using this system.
And that's where we can get into trouble. "Intuition leads us astray because it's not very good at picking up flaws in the evidence," Gilovich says. "It will be faulty when the world conspires against us and presents information that is unrepresentative and misleading."
He notes, for example, that our intuition discriminates against less dramatic and newsworthy events and those that are unrelated to one another. In addition, we disproportionately notice coincidences but fail to notice when no coincidence occurs.
This bias presents larger problems than picking jelly beans. Consider moral behavior, says Baron. He mentions the "do no harm" heuristic: People generally believe that harming someone through action is worse than harming them through inaction, even if the result is the same.
In a 1991 Journal of Experimental Social Psychology (Vol. 27, No. 1) study, Baron told participants about a tennis player who, during dinner the night before a big match, tried to sicken his opponent by knowingly recommending to him a salad dressing that contained an ingredient his opponent was allergic to. In another version, the player merely notices his opponent ordering the dressing but says nothing to warn him. Most of the participants thought the player's behavior was worse in the first example.
The heuristic plays out in real life issues, says Baron, citing euthanasia. He says most people in the United States feel it's better to let somebody die naturally, even if it's a long and painful death. In most states it's illegal to kill a person to ease the pain even when that person wants to die. Without justification, people intuitively favor inaction, he says.
Lost in translation
Our intuition is doubly biased. Just as we think we can intuit others, we think other people notice--and judge--our appearance, behavior and emotions more than they actually do, says Kenneth Savitsky, PhD, a psychology professor at Williams College. Savitsky calls this our "illusion of transparency."
This bias creates communication problems in relationships. In a study of married couples, people assumed their spouses could pick up on hints and detect meaning in their subtle voice inflections--such as saying something sarcastically--more than a stranger could. But participants' spouses could not interpret the meanings any better than strangers could--suggesting that we think our hints, jokes, sarcasm and things gone unsaid are clearer to others than they really are. And the bias makes us nervous in public. In a 2001 Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 81, No. 1) study, Savitsky and colleagues asked participants to wear embarrassing T-shirts, then walk into a room of their peers. Participants predicted that half the room would notice the shirts, but less than a quarter did.
"We overestimate how negatively others will judge us because our transgressions loom larger to us than they do to others," Savitsky says. "We think we're the tell-tale heart. But observers have other things to think about besides our social blunders. On some level, we know others aren't as focused on us as we are on ourselves, but it can be easy to lose sight of that idea--especially when we are in the midst of an embarrassing blunder."
So why do we fear the faux pas?
"My best guess is that we've evolved a tendency to be overly concerned with how we appear to others," Savitsky says. "There are costs to that preoccupation, like anxiety, but the opposite error--not being sufficiently attentive to how others judge our transgressions--can be even more costly, possibly leading to social exclusion."
Yet there's hope. In a 2003 Journal of Experimental Social Psychology (Vol. 39, No. 6) study, Savitksy took students who were nervous about public speaking and told them the truth: Their nervousness is less obvious than they think. In the end, observers didn't notice their nervousness, and the students gave better speeches compared with a second group that received no instructions.
"People are sometimes nervous over the possibility that they will look nervous--and the fear that their nervousness is apparent serves only to make them even more nervous," Savitsky says. "By telling them about our previous findings, we cut through that cycle. It's possible to get around these fears. I think that's cause for optimism. Yet I find I still overestimate how much others will notice my behavior, and I do this research. So some portion of it is inescapable."
That's the curse of intuition. Despite our better logic, it's easier to believe we can control the dice than to know it's left to fate.
"We chuckle at that dice rolling, because rationally we know it's not right," Gilovich says. "But it's a sympathetic chuckle, because we think, 'Hey, I'd do that too.'"


When intuition misfires

http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar05/misfires.html
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:24 pm

JTR and Pete commented, ?Well, now the question, if he cant even supply an example to his students of the skills he is teaching, can he really take control over an entire school, from policy to marketing? We both know the answer...


A very astute observation, one that I have wondered about why this is not brought up more often by those at the "school" and how does it get rationalized away. We know that good teachers pretty much at a minimum would demonstrate and teach in the manner you describe.?

JTR is correct that this issue doesn?t really come up for current students, and even though I have posted about it a couple of times, it wasn?t picked up on then, either (on EMF). Not sure why, but that?s that.
In any case, many years ago I was actually having a conversation with a minister who was involved with the teachings and who did question this issue. Why was JZ seeming to ?run the show?, when Ramtha (if he?s real), seemed to allow a number of things to unfold, that really affected the school in a negative way. Since the school is in ?his? name, one might certainly see that he would be dead to rights in intervening to uphold a high level of integrity.
As I had this discussion with the minister, I was referred to this scripture as a sign that JZ was in fact, channeling something/one (see just below). If you go to the link, you?ll see the differences in interpretation.

New American Standard Bible (?1995)
"Then the Spirit of the LORD will come upon you mightily, and you shall prophesy with them and be changed into another man.
http://bible.cc/1_samuel/10-6.htm

Now, there is another scripture, in the New Testament, that I cannot recall right now. It refers to a
spirit communicating through a seer and being SUBJECT to approval by the seer. I wish I could share that with you. The minister believed that scripture to be THE explanation for why JZ is ?in charge? at RSE, and not ?Ramtha?. Obviously, the minister I?m referring to, did believe in Ramtha?s existence.

NOW, I am not saying Ramtha IS or IS NOT. I am responding to your post with what I have experienced that is relative to it. I do not belong to any organized religion and am not suggesting anything here, along that line.
I also vividly remember my friend who had the fried chicken in her coat pockets, standing next to me on the field one day. ?Ramtha? had come out to the field, and seemed annoyed. I don?t claim to know WHY that was. ?He? absolutely wanted to DO something and was unable. I am stating that, because as ?he? was ranting about ?being controlled by the government and if he could, he would?because the government was stopping him from doing?.? Not a happy camper. My friend wasn?t fond of JZ, anyhow. She heard those comments and turned to me, whispering in my ear, ?You KNOW who the GOVERNMENT is that he is so pissed about being controlling, don?t you?? I shrugged my shoulders. She said to me, ?You dope. The government is JZ, controlling Ramtha, and he?s pissed!?

Within the year, my friend left RSE, because she completely believed that with or without a ?Ramtha? in the picture, JZ was running the show. I never told her about the minister, but in my head?obviously by this post?that back burner doubt never left me to this day. That happened on a warm summer day in the mid-90's, outside on the field.

Just sharing. Not proselytizing.

ex
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Unread post by ex » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:21 pm

A very astute observation, one that I have wondered about why this is not brought up more often by those at the "school" and how does it get rationalized away. We know that good teachers pretty much at a minimum would demonstrate and teach in the manner you describe
rs excuse is"i dont wanna get you with phenomens.you should do it yourself"there is also the excuse of "adversety makes you grow".since r is a scam jzr has to stay no 1 above every student since she cant do this she obviously stays away from demos.there is allways somebody better as we know.wa.also i wanna make this challange again:just make a summary what you learn in one session with the big guy.it mostly summerizeable in one to three sentences.the rest is more or less confusion.[in my opinion that is where the nlp is happening]ask currents the day after an evening what they learned it doesent have to be a wine ceremony.you most likly get the answer "it was asome i have to look at my notes"if you are not current they are excused with the secrecy vow.which is a very wise thing for jzr because some people might get a eyeopening realatycheck.since this are liveteachings i hope you can have your notes with you in the real emergency like the days to come,youre death,your hangover or your caraccident oh sorry i forgot you failed the teachings if you get in a situation like this.

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:39 pm

ex,

i agree with you that each individual event can really be summarized in just a few sentences. jz will take one simple concept and make a big deal out of it, feeding crumbs to the students for an entire event. then, the students will say that it was the best event ever.

then there are the events when jzr will say s/he isn't teaching anything because the students:

1) aren't read for it

2) don't deserve it because they're not applying the disciplines

3) or they aren't understanding the message/teaching so s/he can't go further

one thing that is consistent is it is always the student's fault for the failure to progress.

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Enlighten me objectively
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Unread post by Enlighten me objectively » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:33 pm

Hi,

Really busy at the moment, catch up with you later to reply at the last posts...

Found a horoscope about Ramtha, was interesting to read...

http://www.ccrsdodona.org/m_dilemma/198 ... night.html

Maybe you already found it ages ago...

Post to you soon,

P

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