Jay posted.....

If you feel you've benefited in someway at RSE and would like to share your experiences,
This is the place for you. You are most welcome to directly post here.
We are locking all posts from reply unless the author specifically requests that their comments be open for discussion or debate. Outright proselytizing for RSE is not permitted and will be removed without notice. A moderator post or EMF reference link may be included.
Please take the time to read our EMF POSTING GUIDELINES here > viewtopic.php?f=39&t=272&p=1389#p1389
Feel welcome to contact us via Email: enlightenmefree@gmail.com
P.S. "You won’t find a section like this in JZ's chat room"!
Jay
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Jay posted.....

Unread post by Jay » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:43 pm

I tried to respond to David and Another Dimension, but the thread was locked, so I'll post the reply here.

I did read all of the material and posts. It took me nearly three hours. But what you are complaining about is called "flaming" and "trolling" on every Internet message board known to mankind.

"Tree" has obviously been "trolling". And flaming too. But abuse? LOL. Sorry. Abuse in a written format is simply not relevant, since the so-called "victim" has only to not read the material to avoid it.

The first amendment of the US Constitution covers this amply and is quite clear. You can ban them, remove their written material, and even prevent them from posting new material, but accusing a person of "abuse" for writing something is rather absurd, and over the top, in my opinion.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

-Moderator comment-

The title of this thread has been renamed from "Abuse on EMF II" to "Jay posted" and moved from the "Abuse" forum to the
Current RSE Students Debate Forum.
When a thread has been "locked", please refrain from re-posting using the same thread title.

Thank you for your cooperation.
The Moderators.

Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:08 am

would 'abusive' be a more appropriate word?
are you a lawyer? - just curious.
So jz/ramtha's pattern of building people up and smashing them down is not abuse because anybody can just not listen, get up and walk away, or simply not attend.? A woman whose husband verbally berates her on a regular basis, calling her names and demeaning her in every conceivable way is simply utilizing his freedom of speech - because the bitch didn't have to marry him in the first place? The Parent who regularly tells their child he's stupid, ugly, worthless, clumsy, bad and going to hell is not abusive but just utilizing freedom of speech?
Are we splitting hairs here? I dunno. What actually is your point Jay? that Tree's behavior was misnamed? fine with me. Should it have been called 'verbal battering'? ... Actually it was more than that to me - it was the whole pattern and not just the specific flames that put it over the top for me.
Not sure where you're coming from - - Were you ever a customer of jz's? Are you a friend of Tree's?/or Tree?
Since I haven't read much of any other message boards, let alone all known to mankind, I dunno even what 'trolling' means. What I do know is that there was nothing at all laughable about Tree's behavior, the harm it has done to emf, or the upset it has caused. NOTHING LAUGHABLE, no matter what her behavior is called.- in my opinion of course. For people who could be potentially helped in their understanding of their experience with jz and who because of tree's post simply did not read here - that is not laughable, to me. Some people did simply skip her posts. Some don't read here at all because of her posts. The credibility of emf in this area, to many, was diminished because of her posts. None of this is laughable to me - out loud or silently. In my opinion. But I'm not a lawyer, haven't read every internet message board known to mankind, or an all wise intelligent being.... just an ordinary person who's heart breaks when reading posts based on lies, and demeaning to others.

Jay
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Unread post by Jay » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:38 am

Another Dimension;

I will clarify. "Abuse" requires more interaction than a simple printed statement. Phone calls can be abusive (even though you can hang up). Person-to-person verbage can most definitely be abusive, since it's person to person. Physical abuse is self evident.

But to my knowledge there is no precedent or evidence of anything in print ever being considered "abuse".

Now, if I FORCE you to read the literature, that could perhaps be construed as abuse, but the definition is being stretched even there.

Tree is (was) trolling. That what she was doing and that's what it is.

Accuracy is important.

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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:10 am

Jay,


for writing something is rather absurd, and over the top, in my opinion.
you have made your point very clear.
And I respectfully disagree.
Written, verbal or physical...
Abuse is abuse......... :cry:

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Jay
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Location: Yelm, WA

Unread post by Jay » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:28 am

Fair enough, David. We can agree to disagree. ;-)

Another Dimension60
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Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:20 am

okeydoke Jay, you made me look! - I googled "trolling on a message board". There's any number of sites - but the one I got to first seems sufficient to give me an idea of what you're referring to. http://www.curezone.com/forums/troll.asp
"An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war."
From what I'm understanding about a 'troll' is that it is a purposeful game to play with people, irrelevant of the topic. It is my perspective that what the moderators have been dealing with is a little different. There are many similarities: for example "Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility." And, "Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself."
I don't believe the situation of what has been called abusive was merely a purposeful intellectual game even though the personality characteristics have some commonalities. Perhaps, an example off the top of my head, it's the difference between someone getting purposefully drunk so that they can be purposefully obnoxious or abusive or whatever; and someone who simply cannot help but drink alcohol and their behavior is nevertheless obnoxious or abusive or whatever. One is, to use the vernacular, an a..hole; the other is a person with a serious problem. Both have to be stopped from hurting other people.
Meanwhile, I still don't understand your point. ? Nor have you answered the question as to whether or not you've been a customer of jz or have a relative friend family member who is/was. Are you a troll?
I ask respectfully.

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:43 am

Clearly, Jay is not posting within the context of the posted EMF guidelines.

Not on this thread, nor others.

Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:48 am

It is my opinion that Tree certainly has done things that constitute abuse. Clearly, I am not alone in that view.


a⋅buse
1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority.
2. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight.
3. to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign.
4. to commit sexual assault upon.
5. Obsolete. to deceive or mislead.
?noun
6. wrong or improper use; misuse: the abuse of privileges.
7. harshly or coarsely insulting language: The officer heaped abuse on his men.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abuse

Jay, what's it to YOU ? You have no business posting on EMF from what I can tell.

Jay
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Unread post by Jay » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:36 am

[quote]"Another Dimension60"]okeydoke Jay, you made me look! - I googled "trolling on a message board". There's any number of sites - but the one I got to first seems sufficient to give me an idea of what you're referring to. http://www.curezone.com/forums/troll.asp
"An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war."
From what I'm understanding about a 'troll' is that it is a purposeful game to play with people, irrelevant of the topic. It is my perspective that what the moderators have been dealing with is a little different. There are many similarities: for example "Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility." And, "Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a webmaster is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, the webmaster has to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself."
I don't believe the situation of what has been called abusive was merely a purposeful intellectual game even though the personality characteristics have some commonalities. Perhaps, an example off the top of my head, it's the difference between someone getting purposefully drunk so that they can be purposefully obnoxious or abusive or whatever; and someone who simply cannot help but drink alcohol and their behavior is nevertheless obnoxious or abusive or whatever. One is, to use the vernacular, an a..hole; the other is a person with a serious problem. Both have to be stopped from hurting other people.
Meanwhile, I still don't understand your point. ? Nor have you answered the question as to whether or not you've been a customer of jz or have a relative friend family member who is/was. Are you a troll?
I ask respectfully.

Another Dimension;[/quote]


Not a troll. And, yes, I've been a "customer" of JZ's and have family members who are and were as well.

Don't want to make any waves here, I just added my two cents.

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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:38 am

Don't want to make any waves here, I just added my two cents.
Jay..
This is good news, but your posts has been a whole lot more than just "two cents" worth...!
I have a question for you..
Have you posted before on EMF using another name, or ever been banned?
I just need to clear this up,.

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Robair
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Hello Everyone

Unread post by Robair » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:43 pm

Hello Jay
Welcome to EMF.
Since you seam to have a good knowledge of the law,can you give us some background,did you mention that you have been to RSE,
if so can you tell us some of your experiences.

I think you have brought some Very good healthy points, and have giving some of us ( David Whatch,AD60) a great opportunity to farder make the point about abuse on this site,they have responded to your post with some of the best argument I have seen so far.
Anyway good to see you here.

Oldone

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David McCarthy
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an open and respectful debate.....

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun May 03, 2009 9:40 pm

Hello Jay,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I sense that you abhor the behavior of JZ Knight and certain RSE members...!
yet... still fully believe and support "The Ram" and the RSE doctrines...!
Is this why you are posting on EMF?
Can you at least set the record straight on this matter?
If you open to a candid and respectful debate on these issues...
You are welcome to start the ball rolling by posting on our "Current RSE Students Debate Forum".

David.
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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