And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

The 180 degree change in the teachings from the start of RSE until current times; in the corporation, the teachings and the teacher. Share your experiences.


Ockham
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And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:05 am

In the News topics thread, Freemysoul wrote about how Vanda Boone was sufficiently moved by Knight's, "teachings," that she felt compelled to close up her successful business in New York and move to Yelm, Washington to be close to the RSE and presumably safe from the litany of disasters coming in the near future. At least one my family friends has also made the pilgrimage to Yelm to set up shop in an underground shelter. Some of the authors on EMF have previously done the same as well. All these persons seem to be intelligent, well adjusted and successful in life. I also know some ramsters that are very hooked, but stopped short of moving to Yelm, yet dump tons of money and time into RSE on-line and various events.

What I struggle with as an RSE outsider is where the appeal (or brain washing?) of the, "teachings," is that so moves people to shut down their seemingly successful and fulfilling lives. Vanda seems to be a particularly good case in point because she had an established business and people with whom she was close back home. I have read some of Knight's, or rather her ghost writer's books, listened to a handful of the CDs and watched the Youtube videos that are available to the public. So far, thankfully, there's nothing compelling for me.

I really would like to understand the RSE - "student," dynamic. I've toyed with the idea of going to one of the beginner events, but of course I'm worried about getting hooked and going down the RSE rabbit hole myself. It is frustrating to have friends trapped in the RSE and for me not be able connect with them. As an outsider, to me it seems like most everything Knight and the, "Ramtha," character say don't pass basic fact check in our familiar four dimensional universe. "Ramtha," seems to not have a very good command of geography or history. Even if, "Ramtha," were a hyper dimensional being, our past geography history is going to be invariant in this 3D space and time line. You'd think, "Ramtha," apparently being confused about where and when in history would cast some doubt on just how savvy an entity this character is. Thats quite a red flag it seems. Also, what really substantive things have Knight, "Ramtha," or the "students," ever manifested? Sure, Knight says a lot, but what has anybody ever really seen, "Ramtha," accomplish? Knight obviously can't make teachings of never-ending abundant health work on herself because by her own admission she suffers from diseases and she's obviously had to resort to plastic surgery.

I have a feeling that Knight's hook is different for every student. There's a special something she's got that seems to fill in an emotional gap in one's life. She offers up a highly addictive emotional, "fix," then engages in brain washing to exclude rational thought that might allow, "students," to escape. It seems she employs tactics to instill dependency the way a drug pusher or pimp would use.

I'm interested in reading if others here found there was a particular hook that got them over the edge of the rabbit hole, or perhaps it is an indescribable appeal and charisma of Knight and the, "Ramtha," character. For those that got out, was there a particular red flag that made you say, "OK, that's enough!"

Another Dimension60
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:52 am

Ockham - do you own a cell phone or smart phone or droid or any one of those electronic gizmos? Do you watch the evening news? Do you vote? Did you happen to vote or root for Obama? Do you have a microwave oven?

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by freemysoul » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:11 pm

The red flags for me were many and from early on. You must suspend all rational thought, all common sense, and most all preconceived ideas about anything you thought you knew in order to be a part of JZ's circus. I would have to say, the idea of JZ channeling Ramtha was the biggest red flag for me. I thought from day one in the back of my mind that JZ was faking, but there was that part of me that wanted to believe in the magic she spoke of: fabulous wealth, eternal life, etc. etc. So, I suspended my disbelief enough to do the retreats, spend the money, buy the books/dvds/cds/pillows/blinders/cards/etc.etc.etc., in order to attain the dreamlike existence JZ promised. That small part of me outweighed all common sense and rational thought enough to destroy my life in a big way. The sad part for me personally was that in my heart, and somewhere in the back of my mind, I knew that JZ was lying. I knew it, yet listened to her when she said, "Suspend your doubt, that doubt is your monkey mind that wants you to die." I know now, if nothing else, to listen to that voice when it tells me something is fishy, or just doesn't add up, yet this experience has changed me profoundly, altered my life irreparably and left me distrustful of even the most well meaning of folk. I use this site to try and share my experience so that someone thinking about attending, doesn't have to experience RSE or JZ Knight to know that she is a fraudulent cult leader, and RSE is a hollow abyss that sucks the life out of all who enter.

Ockham
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Thank you Another Dimension60.

In other words, Knight develops or uses existing paranoia (and in some cases rightly placed paranoia) of technology, government organs or geophysical events to manipulate the students. I can see that in cases of government and technology and perhaps comets and asteroids - that those things are beyond the knowledge of most of us exactly how they operate. It isn't that we're not smart enough; it is just that we don't know.

From what I have read on EMF and what limited exposure I have to RSE material, it seems that Knight and the, "Ramtha," character step in and deliver a useable explanation, but the message is a false one that is engineered with doomsday talk and a hook that if students come back just another time, yet more of the mystery is going to revealed and a maybe there will be an explanation of how not to succumb to the doomsday event. Of course there will never be a final answer, or there will just be yet a anohter new doomsday event unveiled.

Ockham
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:34 pm

Also, thank you Freemysoul, for your sharing your candid and personal epxerience.

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Robair
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Robair » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:11 pm

I think it is for many of us about spirituality, feel a gap that religion did not feel, lack of knowledge or ignorance if you will thinking that it is all new secret knowledge, perhaps the need to be different, the sense of belonging , add to that all the techniques she use for programming the brain, loud music, food deprivation, NLP, lack of sleep, fear, and fear to doubt and voila a perfect brain storm.
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:31 pm

Ockham, you have had two very kind replies from both freemysoul and Robair regarding their personal experiences. There are two board headings on this site which are dedicated to what hooked people into the Ramtha experience and red-flags which eventually helped them leave.

I find it a salutary lesson to keep being reminded that people can never learn from the experience of others. On the old bravenet site there are accounts of people who joined RSE out of curiosity, or believing themselves to be objective observers and the next that was heard of them, they had been roped in.

The very uncomfortable truth is that you will join as one person, and more than likely, soon find yourself to be another. You will be bombarded with heavy music which will most likely have been threaded through with subliminal messages; you will be assaulted by visual imagery in the form of rolling video film on large screens which will surround you; you will be expected to dance yourself into a trance state (and you will) and before you know it, you are no longer an objective observer, but an interested participant.

A very important message from any mother to her child is "Don't play with fire. You will get burnt." There are far too many children who never wish to heed that advice (I had one of them) and burnt they will surely be!! Remind yourself of that before you allow your curiosity to carry you any further. Please.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:50 pm

Strictly as another outsider, I was already in my '70s and had seen many scams. When my daughter got involved and started telling me of all the wonderful things she had "learned" from "ramtha", my reaction was, "That is the most ridiculous, assine, bunch of crap I have ever heard." That prompted her to call me "ignorant", because I had not experienced all the wonderful things she had, and been tutored by this guy with all his ancient wisdom.

Then she said she was moving out there, with both my grandkids, because the world would be destroyed in 2012, and Yelm was the only safe place to be. I laughed at that one and said, "Yeah, when there is to be global upheaval the safe place is to be sitting on the San Andreas Fault, at the base of an active volcano?" She changed the subject.

I get all my knowledge of the RSE crap from this website. I tried watching a couple of her videos, that my daughter posted on Facebook, but couldn't sit through the whole thing because I found it so ridiculous. She sent me the DVD of, "What the Bleep", and I got through 5-10 minutes of it before I thought how ridiculous it was, and that it was all BS, so didn't waste any more of my time. Maybe it helped that my majors were Math and Science.

Maybe I am just the world's greatest skeptic. I don't buy most of the stuff taught by the major religions, either.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

Ockham
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:27 pm

I can not thank enough everybody that has replied. I appreciate your efforts greatly because the fresh conversation will assure people with questions about RSE will be able to loacate this information through Internet searches. Every person that reads the discourse here and then decides to stay away from Knight's rabbit hole of financial depletion and loss of self is a great success.

I'll be relieved when December 21, 2012 has uneventfully come and gone, but I hear there are already RSE rumblings that, no indeed, it is yet another disaster date after that.

Peace and love to everybody.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:18 pm

I , too, am waiting for Dec 22, 2012. I plan to contact my daughter again and ask what happened? Are you feeling stupid, yet, for moving 2500 miles, and blowing most of your retirement on a SCAM? Of course Judy has already given them an out because she has told them to concentrate their "powers" and maybe they can change the timeline. That way, when nothing happens, she can just tell them they saved the world by changing the "reality", and then lay the next doomsday scenario on them.

PT Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute." I suspect that now it has become every second!
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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David McCarthy
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by David McCarthy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:37 am

PT Barnum said, "There is a sucker born every minute." I suspect that now it has become every second!
SG...
People that join cults such as RSE are not suckers :cry:
Far from it….. this form of stereotyping is a dreadful misconception of cult victims that I had hoped you would have understood by now.
It is utterly horrible waking up from the cult nightmare … the feelings of betrayal, guilt and anger can push a person into deep depression and suicide,
last thing they need is condemnation and anger from those they need the most to understand ....and to help them recover from the clutches of RSE.
I understand your pain and the betrayal you are suffering
but please tread gently if your daughter reaches out to you.

David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

Ockham
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Good day everybody,

Thanks for the remarks and reflections. I tried to be careful in what I wrote that I that people that join up with JZ Knight's group are pretty smart and well balanced. It seems like the common thread is that many are looking to fill a void - emotional, spiritual educational that the standard system of social, religious and/or educational systems aren't filling. There seems to be a basic human need to make everything quantifiable and explainable. I think that's what has made a species so successful - the hunger to make everything work, everything controllable. We chip away at life's problems persistently until we have a solution.

Unfortunately, some of life's troubles are pretty amorphous are ill defined and it isn't easy to find a nicely quantifiable solution. Some things in life like earth quakes and volcanoes are capricious and occur seemingly randomly, triggered by factors that are virtually impossible to know and even tougher to control.

What Knight offers are solutions to those imponderables. The sad thing is that what you get is a glossy stage show. To borrow from Shakespeare's Macbeth - "...a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing." The sound any fury being incredibly amplified music, perhaps laced with subliminal mind control messages and then doses of clever neuro linguistic programming. Knight also has learned from aboriginal cultures and uses The C&E exercise and strenuous dancing to induce trance like altered states. It is easy to see where the engaging activities could easily allow even people that feel themselves smart and, "immune," from cults to enter a state where they can be mentally manipulated and perhaps given a post hypnotic message that keeps them hooked. What you get from an RSE event is powerful mind control mixed with messages that appear to provide solutions to life's imponderables. Unfortunately what one gets is what Macbeth opined. You get meaningless pseudo science and a tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow pace of doomsday from Knight and the RSE.

I agree with what David said, that one isn't necessarily a patsy for being pulled into RSE. It appears that RSE may use tactics that hypnotize the adherents to prevent them from making rational decisions to get out. For those of us on the outside of RSE, it is incredibly frustrating because we can't use our familiar rational and emotional tools to interact with ramsters. We just have to wait until the tower of twisted facts, pseudo science, illusory disasters and baloney to get so high that it falls down for the loved ones we have in the RSE. The best thing we can do is to keep a non-judgmental open mind and be there support when our loved ones finally exit Knight’s trap.

Another Dimension60
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:38 pm

There seems to me a tendency in most responses here to 'blame the victim' - and at the least to make it 'them'/those people/younotme who were manipulated by your desires. Ironically its the same patriarchal reasoning fostered by jzk inc.

I asked you those questions Ockham because even as eloquent as your last post is, you sound, as grandfather and so many others, as if you've never ever been manipulated/suckered by anything or anyone and poor stupid us for having succumbed to such Macbethian frauds because of our ignorant desire to be better human beings.

Ockham
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:21 pm

Hello AnotherDimension60,

Abosoultely not the case. I've been in plenty of rabbit holes in my life. I'm a little gun shy about going into the gory details because they aren't RSE and I'd prefer to stay a little bit of a generic commentator in that I'm hoping the people I know in Knight's web will eventually read this discussion board and it that it won't cause them to push back even more if they think in some way I'm, "out to get them," by posting things they think are untrue because they're looking through the filter Knight has installed.

I'll am willing to mention that I worked in army counter-intelligence many years ago. When you get picked for the job, you get sent to, "indoctrination." The army doesn't mess around and call it anything else sugar coated, just indoctrination. They use control tactics, probably a lot like RSE does, to get you to buy into what they want you to do. They set up a social fabric to keep you in their framework and even set up social events that are exclusively within the group. For many years, I saw enemy spies and agents everywhere and suspected everywhere might be bugged with listening devices. Even the hapless kid that knocked on the door to try to sell a newspaper subscription was suspect because he seemed to know more that he should - of course he was just a kid. I can turn around and laugh at how ridiculous I was now, but it took a long time for the programming to melt off.

Are people in RSE victims? Well, they are exploited by Knight. When they join in, they aren't victims, they're problem solvers, and they're looking for a solution to a need they have. I see that as self empowerment and a positive step because they aren't shrinking away from dealing with the need. The sickness is all Knight’s; the exploitation is the victimization. The devotee is not to blame; it is JZ Knight, Simmons, Ledwith and her other operatives.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by ex » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:26 pm

[quote]i am having a hard time with the whole 'cult' thing[/quote]how do you call an organisation who gives sugestions and when you ask why you should drink anabolic water you get the answer: because the ram sais so ..we do not disscuss the ram. how do you call a peorson who ask you to take prosacc that his work is easier. how do you call a peorson who tells you knowledge taken from sources and claimed comming from himself. i call this a cult, i call this a cultleader,a fraud. if you have nicer words lets hear them.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:08 pm

I am sorry that I may have offended some with my reference to "suckers". I was a sucker MANY times in my life, if I use the definition of "sucker" as one who falls for a SCAM of one kind or another. Each time I fell for some scam, I became a bit more mature, and while I would never fall for the same scam again, there are as many scams as there are scam artists.

I would say that while I am now a strong skeptic, if the right scam artist came along, with the right message, that he/she might possibly get to me. I certainly wouldn't refer to those on this board negatively, since like me (many times), they may have been suckered (by Judy), but have now regained their power of rational thinking. I wouldn't swear that had I been hit with the "ramtha" story 40 or 50 years ago, that I would have been immune.

I am now 77 years old, and have fallen for, and been exposed to many, many scams. I like to think that my current skepticism might be a form of "wisdom", that doesn't come from a ficticious ancient warrior, but just having learned from a lot of hard experience. Using my definition of "sucker", the people on this board are no longer "suckers", at least for the ramster scam.

My daughter has always been one who was searching for the "answers", and could not accept that there are many things for which there are no answers. If (when?) she eventually sees through Judy's scam, she will be a better (wiser), but considerably poorer person, financially, for the experience.

I do exchange email, occasionally, with my daughter, but with the understanding that we both ignore the elephant in the room by the name of "ramtha".

When I registered, it was anonymously, but I have since put my picture and info on my avatar. If my daughter ever gets brave, or skeptical, enough to come to this site, I don't mind if she knows who I am.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

ex
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by ex » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:00 pm

sad grandfather. i rely appreciated that you come along and use your grounded wisdom when there is tap dancing around eggs in posts. there is one youngster on wide eyed cinema she he classified critic as smalmindedness or being angry. i am also astonished sometime how far the ++++thinking goes.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Marie » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:43 am

I have to respond to the post about always being gentle and loving to friends and loved ones still stuck in rse... This is not meant as a personal comment to the poster at all, it is just my own thoughts and feelings about that concept... As someone who has lost my mother, sister, brother in law, two aunts and two uncles to rse I am beyond being gentle and loving.... On one level sure, I can understand "allowing them their space" and "letting them break free in their own time" but for YEARS I have been treated like the family pariah simply because I do not share the same beliefs... I have been cut off, called mean, ungrateful, hateful and full of spite because I choose to have my own beliefs and have questioned rse when THEY bring it up.... I am just not at the place right now where I am feeling generous enough to "love them until they come to their senses." This is the flip side of what rse does to families. I have had no family because of rse.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:29 am

Marie, I guess We have a different perspective than those who have actually been in the cult and escaped. I have, also, been verbally abused when expressing my opinion to my daughter. At it's worst, I considered violence against Judy, but since I am old, crippled and barely able to get around, I knew I couldn't pull it off. I would still throw a party for my friends and have a big celebration if that evil woman were to meet her end. She is one of those people whose death would make the world a much better place!

David may edit this post, since he does not like violence, so let me say, I am not advocating violence, Just wishong for an end to Judy Knight, from any cause.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Blame the victim syndrome.....

Unread post by David McCarthy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:28 am

Marie, SG,

Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I would like to emphasize again that those that reach out for support in their efforts to recover from RSE
need support and understanding ... especially from family members.
I understand this is extremely difficult, Family members and friends may have been dreadfully treated, this may include families broken apart,
finances and inheritances robbed, psychological, physical and verbal abuse.
This must be defended against to stop the JZ Knights RSE abuse spreading like a virus outside the RSE indoctrinated membership.
No one deserves to be abused by a cult no more than a date rape victim or a beaten and molested child..
any blaming of cult victims leaves very few lifelines for cult victims.. while undermining efforts to bring cult leaders such as JZ Knight to justice….
SG is right .... any references 'even to jest' of using violence against JZ Knight 'or anyone for that matter".... will be removed from EMF.

David

'EMF' Message Board • View topic - Are Cult victims gullible?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1248
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:11 am

I believe that the administrators who control the finances and business of RSE will quickly concoct a back story and appoint a new, "channel," in the event that Knight retires, expires or fades away. I think we see hints of RSE testing the water from time to time, such as the recent event where Knight/"Ramtha" handed over the microphone to Ledwith to dispense pseudo-science and lies regarding the approaching comet. There's no point in wishing ill for Knight in that her demise might turn Yelm into a New Age Mecca shrine.

It will be interesting to see how long Knight can keep it going, given her penchant for: alcohol abuse, Prozac abuse, tobacco smoking, junk food, stress,... Knight can probably milk it for a long time, delivering pre-recorded messages; she even does that now for parts of some events, so I've read.

I think we will be better off developing an understanding of the dynamic that keeps people wired into RSE. Only then can we develop non-threatening unobtrusive tools we can give to loved ones in RSE's grasp so they can see more facets of the scenario in which they are immersed. For some people, staying in will be their correct choice, and we may have to accept that. I feel bad when I try to make a connection with old friends, but am pushed back because I have not enrolled in RSE. Life has taught me there are sometimes long frustrating years waiting for things to come to pass. As we've seen with Iamgod17's postings, being available as an emotional safety net if loved ones exit will be a quite valuable thing.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:51 pm

I am most frustrated that my grandchildren got dragged into the cult thing, and are too far away for me to talk to them. My son-in-law was at home with my granddaughter, who never bought the cult line, when my daughter flew in and gave him the ultimatum, that to "keep the family together", he would have to move to Yelm. I told him to stand up to her and I would go to custody court and testify that she was an unfit mother and was abusing her children by exposing them to cult activity. I'm sure his daughter would have also testified that she would prefer to stay home with her Dad. Unfortunately, he did not have the fortitude to stand up to her, so he sold his business and moved, taking my granddaughter against her wishes. At that time, I would not have grieved had something happened to my daughter, if it brought the rest of the family out of the cult.

I'm sure you are right, that someone would jump in to try to fill the void, when Judy dies. I wonder who would inherit the "ranch" if she met an untimely end? Does she have children? It would be interesting to get a look at her will, if she has one - - - Or maybe she has come to believe her own BS and thinks she will never die, so doesn't need a will?
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Kensho » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:23 pm

In response to our reactions to loved ones still following RSE and their reactions to us:

Certainly there were RSE followers who expressed anger toward me when I left RSE, and more so when I became active on EMF; but I'd like to share some perspectives that really helped to move my mind beyond the knee jerk reactions of self defense and aversion toward them.

First I had to admit that I would have reacted similarly when I was a follower of RSE and then ask myself why I would have reacted that way. The honest answer? As a follower of RSE I was not in control of my own mind because under the influence of RSE, I had ceased to watch my own mind with objectivity or utilize critical thinking. In place of that objectivity and critical thinking, were the thought stopping clichés and delusional thought patterns/behaviours of RSE.
I came to real-eyes and accept that my mind had been under the control of what I had believed to be true at the time and that there were specific natures to the thought patterns inherent to that belief. Delusional as it may seem now, I honestly thought and believed that what I was engaged in was righteous, enlightened, compassionate and loving. Thus there was no reason to think that those who follow RSE were/are holding anything other than the belief that they are correct in their thoughts or actions.

Given those observations, it became far easier to understand that those followers of RSE who expressed disdain toward me were under the same influence and delusion that I had been. They were not in control of their own mind and so, were more likely to express the nature of the mind and thought processes that are promoted by RSE.

Just like when someone is caught up in the emotion of anger which has the specific nature to lash out, it does not help to blame the person for doing so. Once the anger is in full control of the person's mind, that person is temporarily unable to think clearly; and it can be expected that they may act outside of their normal behaviour and strike out. it helps to recall trying to reason with someone who is fully embraced by a powerful emotion. Generally all one will get is the expression of that emotion's nature. Only when that emotion's nature subsides, is there is room to reason with them.

This perspective has truly helped in times when reasoning with someone is just not on the table. It was like that when I was the primary caregiver for a person with brain cancer. Slowly they lost control of their mind and at times they behaved as though they were another person. It was so easy to have only compassion and understanding for them; no matter how awful or abusive their behaviour became at times because a disease process was the cause of that aberrant behaviour. Trying to reason with them while they were in an aberrant state was an exercise in futility and only seemed to fuel the nature of it. Instead, it was calm patience that usually won out.
Perceiving RSE's influence like a disease of the mind, made it easier to have understanding and compassion for the followers of RSE; despite the nature of their actions.

It seems that RSE's mind's main nature seems to be to exclude...one's self from non-followers and non-followers from one's life. Trying to reason with an RSE follower who is fully caught up in the nature of the RSE mind may be the same as to trying to reason with someone who is under the influence of an emotion like anger or is afflicted with a mental disease. One can only expect the nature of the thought process to come through in such a person's actions. In the case of the RSE follower, those actions will probably be expressed as exclusion.

Thinking back to when I first left RSE, sure it was initially painful to have friends express their dislike for me. But with a little contemplation, their actions just became recognized as the expressions of those who were not in full control of their mind. With that perspective, the feelings and reaction toward all RSE followers became less self-concerned and more directed toward understanding the terribly tragic situation of mind control. Through that perspective it was easier not to bear down so heavily on the actions of RSE followers, but to see those actions simply as the nature of the influence of the beliefs that they had been manipulated into holding.

Now I just see it as that and am not so easily hurt by the actions of RSE followers. Similarly, I feel that it may be impossible to help someone reclaim a clearer thinking process while they are fully caught up in a delusional state. That would be like trying to reason with someone who is fully caught up in an emotion like anger along with its nature to lash out...the nature of the emotion or delusion is in control of their mind at that point and that is all there is.
Before calm reasoning and lucidity can be given its due, it seems that first there has to be a little crack in the shell of the nature of the delusion.
Until that happens for those we care about at RSE, perhaps we can rest in compassionate understanding for them; as well as in the hope that it comes through speedily for all RSE followers.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

ex
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by ex » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:56 pm

you r a great soul kl. i had to deal with some ramsters resently. what angered me is that they follow ramtha so they assume if you r not in school you have to be submissive to their agenda. that included disposition over my property. also its frustrating with what their guru gets away just resently [17h, death in a barrel] so your apeale for patience and understanding reached a line for me.[not your request, the patients] but i am too selfcentered for a reaction like you describe. there is one fault i see in your example facing death beeing terminall ill, is an excuse. beeing healthy and having manovered yourself into a cult is kind of an adiction someone should be held accountable with realety checks like a drug addict not a cancer patient. still thanks for the reminder.

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Sad Grandfather
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:44 pm

If only my daughter was involved, it would be much easier for me to show patience and just expect that she would eventually figure it out. Since my grandchildren were dragged into it, it is a bit harder to be patient when they are being abused. The grandson got into it, and now is involved in other wierd stuff. The grand daughter still has control of her mind, but is immersed in the stuff constantly.

I understand about the mentally ill. My wife is in moderate Alzheimer's and can come up with some wierd stuff, but I realize it is the disease talking. I agree with Ex that the cult is more like an addiction, and I have less patience with addicts.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

ex
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by ex » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:22 pm

there is also a difference if a person wants to get off drugs and needs help. or they r happy high addicts who care only about getting the drug. transpose this on the ramster comunety.

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Sad Grandfather
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:00 pm

Well, one difference is that I constantly shake my head when I hear about people getting hooked on drugs. How on earth, with all that is known about drugs, could anyone be stupid enough to get addicted? The ramster addiction is more insidious and understandable since the general public doesn't even know it exists until a family member gets hooked, or they go looking for knowledge and get sucked in.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

Kensho
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Kensho » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:32 pm

Thanks Ex and SG,

You both bring some very good points to the conversation.
The previous post was only an attempt to share the possibility of perceiving the behaviours of RSE followers while they are fully under the influence of it, in a different way. How someone (including myself) gets into that situation, or better yet, why they do is still a bit of head scratcher from my side. The analogy of someone suffering from an addiction is perhaps more accurate than that of someone who is afflicted with a disease, but IMO just like an addict who is under the influence of their substance, the RSE follower may be just as difficult to reason with as someone high on drugs or alcohol. Until there is at least some sobriety (a crack in the delusion), expecting anything other than the influence/nature of the substance/delusion might be expecting too much.
In the end it is we who may suffer the most through attempts to help someone in such a state because the addict/delusional individual is quite insulated from recognizing the problem while they are fully under the influence of it.

I also find the topic of children in RSE brings disturbing contemplations, and IMO the involvement of children is one of the greatest tragedies of RSE; for they truly have little choice but to experience the effects of their parents' beliefs and behaviours. Equally tragic is when a child follows in the footsteps of those parents/relatives who are either too caught up in something themselves to think clearly or beyond themselves to provide balanced guidance and/or protection. An addict or a delusional individual is certainly going to have great impact on the lives of innocent children and the rest of the family; however attempting to address that with the parent/relative while they are under the influence of their substance/delusion may be counter productive in that all communication may be lost in the process. That reaction seems to be the standard for RSE followers and is in keeping with the nature of RSE's exclusion philosophy.

Exercising patience may not seem fulfilling but I simply wanted to share that at the very least, it was an alternative to anger, resentment or retaliation; and that it may help to decrease the pain at witnessing loved ones succumb to addiction/delusion as well as witnessing/experiencing the harm that it does to others while that influence is in control.
In this way, the debate over how or why someone engages in addiction or delusion can perhaps be kept somewhat separate from the actions of one controlled by the addiction or delusion and our reactions to it.

What we all do here on EMF may be one of the best ways to address that issue for those who choose to have a peek through a little crack in the armour. I for one found the mirror effect of that first peek a breathtaking realization of "Hey, I am not alone in questioning this RSE stuff!" For that and for the opportunity to openly and freely discuss differing views, I am forever grateful to all who post on EMF.

With love, Kensho
"Don't let any person bring you so low as to hate them."
Booker T. Washington

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:30 am

Thanks, Kensho, I agree. This board has been valuable to me in getting some idea of how the ramster brain works. I think it may do as much good for prevention, as it does for rehabilitation. I wish I had known of this site in time to send a link to my daughter before her mind shut down.

Of course, I didn't even know the "school" existed until she was already involved. Perhaps more key words could be on the homepage to make it pop up on Google and other search engines. I just Googled "ramtha" and the first 6 items were from RSE and Wikipedia. The 7th was a small link to this site and then more from Judy. "ramtha scam" brought up several skeptic sites but I didn't see this one.

If a search for "ramtha", "RSE" or "JZK" or "Judy Knight", brought up this site FIRST, it might save a lot of people before they got involved. Could be worth a try? Of course, if it takes money, no doubt Judy could top all efforts.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

Marie
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Marie » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:59 am

I understand the process of being indoctrinated into a cult. I have been following this board for three years and have read most of the topics more than once or twice. I don't deny my family the right to their beliefs. I do not instigate debates or attempt to lure them back home. Actually I never have as I come from a family that has always valued the right of each and every individual to define their own values and what they must follow as far as spirituality is concerned. I give them space and let them be who they are. I have also been subjected to their deciding I am worthy of having a relationship with one year and then deciding the next for no apparent reason that I am not. I am just as entitled to my beliefs and feelings as they are to theirs. I will not speculate at this time "what I would do" if they should need my help exiting rse in the future. But right now, angry with them, yes. Hurt, yes. Wanting to maintain my distance for my own sake, yes. Feeling a need to "be the bigger person" and comfort them or be there for them, no. And I owe no one any apologies. Because these are my feelings about my family, does not equate to my harrassing, abusing, or creating a hostile environment on this board to others who have left rse and are seeking to recover from that.
"That's me in the corner -- losing my religion" -- REM

ex
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by ex » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:04 am

the appeal is actually the trap. yes thats the question: how could i fall for this. the appeal is what the devil promises faust. all knowledge, all experience you wish for, powers, health, money, extended life.so just like faust signs a contract with mephistopheles. you sign with jzs rse . with rse it might be only your sanity and money. the devil delivers for a lifetime then he collects the soul. jz get paid up front and never delivers. nobody wants to admit that they don't receive anything. because than they are the losers who don't get it.who wants to admit that he got scammed? its easier to go with the flow stay positive and do what ramtha sais. jz gives promises the students trade their life's success and families for it.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Ockham » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:51 am

Good day everyone,

I just want to say a quick, "Thank you!" to everybody who has contributed to this thread. For me this has helped tie up a lot of loose ends of questions and also helped me see my own perspective in a better light. I'll try to add more later, but for now just say thanks.

Justtruth
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Justtruth » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:08 pm

Who are whatever Ramtha was or is sincerely changed the course of my life for the better and I have no regrets, but I was very involved early and missed the years of drunkenness and abuse and truth teachings

I feel the real reason I started watching the streaming again was to check in with the DTC

The first hooks were love and the attention of Ramtha and it was alll about the self and having an amazing relationship with our own spirit

Later the greatest hooks became fear based and you have to keep going back and you completely miss life NOW

Vanilla
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Vanilla » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:02 pm

The hook was I believed Channeling was possible, was real phenomenon. I believed it.

the end was public humiliation on stage

freemind
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by freemind » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:52 am

Very good point Ockham.
In my opinion, FEAR is the weapon that they use, I said they because is no only JZ, all the general staff and people close to JZ (that every body knows who they are, friend of JZ with privilages in the school, ).
Right now a new date to Apocalipse is on, every student is in panic, and if nothing happend, of course they saved the world, I been here for 18 year and is the same song over a over, I wish to be far from Yelm some day and forget about all this crazy school, meanwhile I'll try to be happy with my things and don't waste my energy thinking too much in JZ and her crazy crew , but is difficult living in Yelm Area.

seriously
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by seriously » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:05 pm

One way of getting hooked that wasn't touched on too much in this thread: Kids being inundated with RSE Inc during their formative years. It makes believing the ridiculous much more palatable. If you approach your average teenager or young person in their twenties and showed them a Ramtha video and explained to them this one lady whom you have to pay to listen to is taken over by a being that lived on earth 35K years ago. This 35K year old being is a member of the Great White Brotherhood and will show you the path to being a Christ that can do anything, be anything and know everything. Give up your life as you know it and follow this woman.

It's a tough sell. For adults, I would speculate there has to be some trauma in their lives, a feeling something is missing or experience with mysticism to buy into it. For young people that grew up around RSE and/or other cult or metaphysical activities, it's not that difficult to believe. You've been brought up with it. You've been inundated with it and it doesn't seem that fantastic. Once you're away from it for a time, the whole prospect of what JZ is selling seems sillier and sillier and then scarier and scarier.

If you're a parent with young kids, please don't take them to the Ranch. Once they grow up and get some life experience under their belts, they'll resent you for it.

Kelku
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Kelku » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:18 pm

Hi Nachoman,
I wish to be far from Yelm some day and forget about all this crazy school, meanwhile I'll try to be happy with my things and don't waste my energy thinking too much in JZ and her crazy crew , but is difficult living in Yelm Area.
... I feel for you and all those who are stuck in the Yelm area although they'd wish to live elsewhere.

So what is the new 'end date' now and did she use the usual stuff to instill terror in the students?
“Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud.”
- Sophocles

heyV
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by heyV » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:26 am

Hi,
For me I have had significant losses that I was trying to recover from emotionally and when I felt I could take back my power through being my own creator of reality I got hooked.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) I had sickness that I was concentrating on that did not get better after the promised "40 days" as Craig says in his story about using C&E to complete a project. At that point I began to suspect and found this site (which pissed me off at first) and then another site (eyes wide open I think it is called) and I realized I had been duped. Ouch

heyV
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by heyV » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:31 am

Hi- just to clarify that is Craig (or Greg?) who I am talking about that told his story of how the dicipline of C& E made his drawing /picture come true- he leads some of the beginners online streaming events - as a teacher at RSE.

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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Robair » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Hello Everyone

Yes it is The Lying Dr Greg. More like Dr Crook.

He is also the one that saved a fish and can start any Car that have a dead battery if he wanted to. 8)

Robair
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

Vanilla
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Vanilla » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:55 pm

HEY V- Yes, Greg is in the home study course videos where they teach c&e. He has a pentagram necklace and black shirt.

freemind
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by freemind » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:31 am

Good for Greg, he can work at AAA when finally somebody shut the school.

heyV
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by heyV » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:32 am

"Thinking back to when I first left RSE, sure it was initially painful to have friends express their dislike for me. But with a little contemplation, their actions just became recognized as the expressions of those who were not in full control of their mind."
Thank you for this nugget of wisdom, it helps me understand mental illness (my Mom) much better. V

Vanilla
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Vanilla » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:09 pm

My advice to new prospective students, here it is FREE RSE STUDENT ADVICE

Stay at home and do C and E every day for a year, do Mirror focus, Candles, flying through frequencies, grid, roulette, staring at walls, going to play lotto, drink red wine, blindfold yourself, blindfold yourself and go get your breasts groped at a concert, etc DO THIS AT HOME FOR A YEAR to see what its like living in Yelm. For a year. See if you like it...then come here.

...and if you have done this correctly, see if you are in a different place and if you are not- stop. And if you have fabulous wealth, then come to Yelm.

You see, these disciplines take up 10 hours a day average. And they are hard to stick to, after a week, you want to give it up, you blew all the capillaries in your cheeks..you are obsessed with orbs and Jesus Twin brother stories...You realize none of the guys on the original tapes have long left or all dead from cancer... and people soon realize what it is and give it up.

Try it out first at home.

forever
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by forever » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:06 pm

The amount of Love, Respect, Support and Compassion i receive from others is in direct proportion to how much of the same -i have for myself.

I will never let myself down,
treat myself like a doormat,
or make myself small so others can feel big.

P.S.

Try it out at home first.

Live by this and there are no victims.

Watcher7
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Re: And the appeal of JZ Knight's message is...?

Unread post by Watcher7 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:47 am

Vanilla,

That reply was great, couldn't have summed it up any better. And, of course there will always be another
calamity to pre-pair for, at least the dollar didn't drop to 7 cents, like JZ/R said in the mid 80s.
Never did dig that dam UG, but, I know many that did, not even on there own property.
It all brings back such memories, living in squalor, using a porta potty, shower bag for hot water, and
of course giving out money on failed investments ie omega, David Hudson, Harrington Templar.
What a ball.

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