Who lies behind the eyes ???

The 180 degree change in the teachings from the start of RSE until current times; in the corporation, the teachings and the teacher. Share your experiences.


voidgate

Who lies behind the eyes ???

Unread post by voidgate »

I have noticed there is a very big difference in the essence emanating from "Ramtha" in the early years to the one of later years. It is clearly visible to me in photographs. To me it is evidence that they are not one and the same being.

Who is to say the later version is not the same enraged character claiming he is Jesus that was channeled by JZ so long ago ?
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

I wasn't at the school then, but I'm very curious about that supposed "channelling." Were any of his/her gestures, postures, facial expressions similar to hers/R's? I've seen a video of her as Ramtha where she used, "Oh my heck!" - Judith's expression of choice. It was odd to hear R say it, and there was no accent. Does she sometimes "forget" she's supposed to be "channelling" and slip into Judith mode? Chanelling Jesus would probably be a "really big show!" requiring a lot of rehearsal time, unless she channeled up something that was certainly not the purported Jesus. What did her Jesus say? If she is channelling, no one knows WHAT is coming through her.

Curious, I purchased the DVD "The Veil is Lifting" about orbs, since I'm interested in them. I was dismayed to see Judith in the DVD, but wherever she is, there she is. I did notice her "ramtha eyes" at several points while she was talking. I wonder where she 'ends' and the others 'begin?'


:shock: :shock: :shock:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
voidgate

Unread post by voidgate »

G2G, I cannot say with any proof what JZ is channeling and I don't think anyone can. What I can say is that the Ramtha of the early years used to be a comic extraordinaire and had the whole audience in stitches when he really got going and this was quite absent when I attended in 2006.

The Ramtha of the early years was never profane and was totally against language that debased the human body and intimate relations. He also told us not to drink alcohol when engaging C and E as it produced a poison in the brain. There could be multiple beings operating that body. My personal observation in those early years was that the personality of JZ Knight and Ramtha were quite dissimilar.

I have not got the Jesus tape anymore. I threw my tapes out.....a huge waste of money. Perhaps someone else can fill you in on that.

There appears to be no god within from observation at RSE because the most dedicated people who have attended very regularly over the years are cleaned out financially unless they are in some way employed by J.Z. Knight (including international presenters). From observation J.Z. is the mediator between god and the people just like the church. When you look at the lives of the students god appears to be in J.Z. Knight's wallet.

The miracles at RSE are few and far between and a lot of the purported miracles are unable to be substantiated.

It is well known that people cheat on the name field. It has been stated by that people got to the void by cheating also. (On the occasion I was present at it was stated that some of those who were successful REASONED the layout of the tank out ) It is quite likely that a lot of people cheat when told to stand up if they got their sending and receiving and remote views right. There is no controlled assessment at all.

One would have to question the mindset of someone who would not put a halt to people vomiting all over one's own premises and having to deal with the cleaning afterwards.
See&E
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Unread post by See&E »

G2G, the whole Jesus channelling was very different from the others. Not what one would expect. It was the one and only time that it was attempted. Like many other things, in years later, there were always different different teachings about who/what Jesus really was, ranging from a composite of 13 entities sponsoring the individual... to other comments from time to time about the Jesus 'story' (implying it was a tool, teaching). Still later, then came Father (M L ) as being Jesus' brother.

Inconsistent and ever changing. As voidgate shared, the beginning events was with a very entertaining, witty, comical, tolerant presentation warning against judgment or intolerance of any kind from judging people by their age, gender, orientation, race, creed. We toasted with water, and as was shared, during C&E even used a hand-selected rock to place on top of the head. Many teachings at events followed the release of all manner of books. The Life & Teachings of Masters of the Far East were very popular (resurgence) at the time of the Jesus channel. There was also a book called Energy, Matter & Form : Toward A Science of Consciousness( a 6 volume series), of which volume 2 (as an example) stated the C&E-->R in different terms, but gave diagrams of making triads, the raising of kundalini energy up thru 7 suns (called seals at rse). There were chapters on the sending/receiving and all kinds of simple topics.

At least at one time, the teachings were often preceded/followed up by a list of books to read for that year, or prior to event/group one belonged to. This continued and maybe still does. One would go to an event, and come back with all manner of both music tapes selected by the Master of Music, and also special audio tapes of one's particular group.
Later the various groups merged, changed, and then there was the era of rock'n'roll.... krse, baby. After spending a lot of time and money, vacation, whatever to get to the event, it became not only a 'book of the month club' with true interpretation/clarification... but it became sometimes hours of listening to music of the 60's, 70's. About this time, the 'new agey' visualization music and instrumental only music played during C&E and other disciplines stopped. Often the sound track of a movie was used, e.g. Braveheart, or Robin Hood, others.

But,as voidgate has shared, paying students expected to see the "real" show, not listen/watch to previous events (as happened frequently, later). You may already know all that, but just thought I'd mention that there were sources for material presented (not exactly the same) but similar that would be brought up, and then perhaps never mentioned again...
Whatchamacallit
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Later Years

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

I was there in those later years. It would be very common for video replays of Ramtha/JZ to be played as many as three times during one event. We were told that we needed to view the replays that many times in order to "get it". One time, after an Assay, students who had paid, were told that we'd be having a verbal test and if we failed the test, (on Ramtha's version of quantum physics), we would be kicked out of the rest of that event. Cute. I "passed" the test, lucky me! (insert sarcasm)

Then, if the Big Dude came down, we'd frequently have a wine ceremony, and very little if any, teaching. It was just a matter of eating, getting drunk, sexual overtures in all gender directions, puking and hoping you made it into the baggy they hand out prior to the ceremonies, and having the "pleasure" (not) of listening to Ramtha, who knows what's best for you because you're too stupid to know it yourself, lay you out in lavender when telling your faults to you and the entire audience.

Notably, JZ and Ramtha (JZ/R) were exempt from such ridicule, except by a rare brave student who would yell out some retort, or dare to disagree/deny with the onslaught coming their way.

My contention is that if JZ was ever really channeling, then something went awry, because the actions of the presenting entity, (her own delusional mind imo), were BASE human actions. It was as far removed from enlightenment as I can imagine.

Having been out of the school for a few years, it took me a little while, upon returning, and getting past the initial events when things are sugar coated, to figure it out. But, eventually I did; that's the good news.

I agree with Voidgate, too, that we do not need ANY intermediary - and certainly not JZ, between us and what we believe God to be.

As for the Jesus channeling tape. I have it in a box somewhere, along with too many other tapes. :roll:
voidgate

Unread post by voidgate »

The Ramtha of the early years was generally a presentation of beauty. I and many others attended because we loved what we saw in him. He was loving to people in a way that is absent in normal human consciousness.

He was not PRETENTIOUS. Normal humans are full of pretentiousness .....saying the right things in order to be accepted, successful or personally gain in some way.

The theory presented of how to transcend human consciousness seemed plausible at the time. The school had not been going very long so there was insufficient evidence to indicate that in the long run it would not work.

JZ has had tests done on her brain that indicate there is some sort of anomaly occurring. It is quite possible in my view that she has deposed the original Ramtha and the she has become the later version of "Ramtha" herself.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

It seems to me Voidgate as though you still believe that Ramtha existed.
Can't you see that JZ is just a good actress, where is the evidence that JZ's brain had some sort of anomally that couldn't be explained by anything but chanelling? You are very bitter about JZ, yet you still believe that there was an entity called Ramtha.
Don't you think it would help if you let go of the whole experience?
I know you are going to tell me I know nothing because I have never been part of or believed in the school but your bitterness is palatable and I would imagine quite detrimental to your well being.
voidgate

Unread post by voidgate »

Aussiegirl, Don't you think it would help if you stopped trying to tell other people how to live and how to think and judging them by your parameters of thinking ?

The bitterness you perceive is your own. You try to control this message board by trying to make other people see your way and accusing others instead of allowing their viewpoint. You are a domineering tyrant. This message board is for those that oppose RSE and it is quite obvious I am one of those. If you don't like what I write you are free to go someplace else. Stop trying to control me and manipulate me by trying to make me look bad in the eyes of others with your hypocritical judgements.

You yourself have stated that you considered RSE a fraud (written in a previous post) and almost in the next sentence you have stated that JZ Knight deserves her fabulous wealth. What a hypocrite. Why don't you clean up your own backyard before telling others to live? I have a right to my opinions based on my own experience and interfere in no genuine person's viewpoint on this message board. Your tyrannical attitude is BORING. I suggest you go to a neighbourhood where you will have like minded company.

p.s. Save the tears and telling everyone how nasty I am and how my writing hurts you so-o-o-o-o much. You are the one with a warlike attitude.
voidgate

Unread post by voidgate »

p.p.s. Aussiegirl, I have absolute no interest in your writings or your opinions so don't bother addressing me in future.
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David McCarthy
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Unread post by David McCarthy »

Hi Christel
I dont perceive Aussigirls post to be a personal attack on you or she is supporting RSE.

Hi Aussiegirl,
Getting 'Ramtha' out of one's head is fraught with dangers and challenges..
A catch twenty-two syndrome?
First of all..
The ability for critical thinking has been severely compromised with a mindset totally oblivious to its own delusions..
Yet... thinks itself the authority of all things in Godlike proportions.
a time / mind bomb that must be defused with factual information presented with a great deal of TLC.
Our psyche has been raped by 'Ramtha" and our fundamental trust in humanity horribly betrayed..
It has taken me many moons, and a few buckets of tears to clean out the RSE delusions.
Now?
I have no doubt that JZ Knight is.. and always was... a charlatan.. and a brilliant one at that?!
My friend Carroll Cobbs who spoke at our first LARSE gathering, sincerely believed "Ramtha" left,
and that Judith was running the RSE show..
But..two years later ?
Carroll concluded it was a JZR act all along, and that she was capable of running the RSE show from the get go.
My point ?
Sometimes no matter how much ?proof of fact? presented..
It often takes time to accept a painful reality and to gain the understanding.
Perhaps its nature's way of protecting our mind from a total breakdown and to make the changes necessary for healing...
one gentle step at a time.

Trying to disprove "Ramtha" exists can be a little crazy making,
Much like asking someone to disprove that my teapot spoke to me this morning.
Hey..
Perhaps it did.. :shock:

I hope my post made some sense?

David.
journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

Voidgate,


My post is not intended to agitate you, but to gain some understanding of how you come to your present conclusions or thoughts.

"The Ramtha of the early years was generally a presentation of beauty. I and many others attended because we loved what we saw in him."
Certainly yours and others experiences. Could you describe what made the presentation so beautiful? and you say in general, were there times it was not so beautiful? If so, what was that like?
"He was loving to people in a way that is absent in normal human consciousness."
Again, please describe a bit in what way he was loving to people that is absent from human consciousness.
"He was not PRETENTIOUS. Normal humans are full of pretentiousness .....saying the right things in order to be accepted, successful or personally gain in some way."
Here is the definition of pretentiousness from Webster's is that the same word and definition you are using? If so, exactly how is he/she/it Non-pretentious??

pretentious

Main Entry:
pre?ten?tious
Pronunciation:
\pri-ˈten(t)-shəs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
French pr?tentieux, from pr?tention pretension, from Medieval Latin pretention-, pretentio, from Latin praetendere
Date:
1832
1: characterized by pretension: as a: making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) <the> b: expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature <pretentious> <pretentious>
2: making demands on one's skill, ability, or means : ambitious <the>
synonyms see showy
? pre?ten?tious?ly adverb
? pre?ten?tious?ness noun

"JZ has had tests done on her brain that indicate there is some sort of anomaly occurring. It is quite possible in my view that she has deposed the original Ramtha and the she has become the later version of "Ramtha" herself. "
The tests done on JZ simply indicated that there were physiological changes occuring in her body. Her brain in particular was not examined (though it sure should have been!!) I have made more comments on that in the thread about her tests. If you would like a hard copy of the paper I referred to I would be more then happy to mail it to you.
"The theory presented of how to transcend human consciousness seemed plausible at the time.
"

Again, I am wondering why you feel it was plausible at that time?

"The school had not been going very long so there was insufficient evidence to indicate that in the long run it would not work. "
If you feel one of the reasons it was implausible was because the school had not been going so long and lacking evidence. Do you feel that a lack of evidence makes something plausible? Your take on the whole thing has a sort of non-sequitur ring to me. I am hoping you will be able to explain it a bit more so that I can understand
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
journeythroughramthaland
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Unread post by journeythroughramthaland »

PS Aussiegal,

Nice boots!!
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."
-William Mizner
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

A little off-topic, but I agree, Aussiegirl - I LOVE those boots!!!
8) 8) 8)
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

Voidgate I know you dont want me to address you but your posts dont bother me personally, why would they? It is pretty clear you are still completely wrapped up in the whole Ramtha thing, you actually believe he existed ????? How does that help anyone reading this message board, to have you rave on about how wonderful he was? He's a scam don't you understand that yet? He never existed he's just a creation of JZ Knight.

[Moderator Edit]
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PPS - to everyone else, yes the boots are fabulous. Its an image I used for a great party I threw a couple of years ago - whips and spurs where the theme - and yes let your imaginations run wild.
Whatchamacallit
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Then and Now

Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Voidgate said, "I have noticed there is a very big difference in the essence emanating from "Ramtha" in the early years to the one of later years."

VG, I have talked to CURRENT students who have talked a lot about how they can't tell the difference between Ramtha and JZ anymore. They said this IN CONTRAST, specifically, to "back in the day", versus now and in the last couple of years. These are students who are all long timers, that I refer to. They know what they're talking about, because they directly witnessed the bold differences in teaching manner, attitude, levels of emotion (human vs. more Godly, so to speak), and the overall demeanor of the presenting "entity" (whatever you want to call it...or whomever). The DIFFERENCE was noted by many, many people. I would even say it was an item of conversation for a time.

In the arena, JZ/R had to address the repeated VIDEO REPLAYS, because the rumors they do fly fast. Students were grumbling "privately" (at a safe distance, LOL ?), that they didn't pay all that money to go sit there and watch "Ramtha" on a VIDEO replay from a prior event. They, of course, wanted the Big Guy/Gal to show up "in person".

As for "is he real or isn't he real"... there are current students and former students, and never been students who have a myriad of opinions about that. Within ALL of those categories of "student status" positions, there are those who believe there never was a Ramtha, those that believe for a time, JZ really was accessing "someone evolved", and those that believe that she lost the ability to "connect" with such a high frequency because her own consciousness became so focused on humanity (money, power, greed, control, materialism and all its trappings), and as such, was only able to reach lower level entities. Then, there are some that believe Ramtha has always channeled and still does.

Nobody that I have met, can prove or disprove "Ramtha's" existence. So, IMO, for anyone to hold a position about it THAT THEY THEN EXPECT OTHERS TO UPHOLD THE STANDARD OF, is tyranny. We are all where we are in our beliefs no matter if we are Jewish, Muslim, New Age, Atheist, Catholic, Pagan, Wiccan, a Ramster believer, etc. We have a right to believe as we wish (thankfully), and, one might hope, give the respect for diversity that we would expect to be given to us.

I have my own view about "is he, isn't he, was he ever, is he now", etc. However, I don't see my viewpoint on that issue as relevant to the purpose of this website. The fact is, I have witnessed human beings suffer due to RSE, I have witnessed young children be exposed to forms of abuse at RSE, I have witnessed at least two adults being repeatedly, physically assaulted by "Ramtha" at RSE. I can go on with that line of experiences...and for those reasons alone, it is my opinion that RSE should be exposed to the PUBLIC for what it FULLY is. It is NOT just a place to go and receive a teaching that will exalt a "student" to God-realized status. NOBODY has ever made it to that since the school's inception. Incoming students are not fully informed about what goes on in that school. They are subjected to a glossy marketing campaign, and the wealthy among them are subjected to solicitations to buy into privately held stock for a meager price of six BILLION dollars.

IT IS A FOR PROFIT BUSINESS AND JZ KNIGHT IS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT THE INTENT OF THE SCHOOL, IS ONLY TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEIR LIVES. THIS WAS CITED IN PRINT, TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF WASHINGTON STATE.

BUYER BEWARE.
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Unread post by EMFWebmaster »

Aussiegirl,

Several paragraphs from your post have been removed.

For this forum to be remotely effective in helping former RSE members and their loved ones recover from RSE,
It must be free of ridicule, flaming and intimidation.

Please take a moment to read the rules for posting and refresh your memory as to the purpose of EMF.

The Moderators.
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

How do you think JZR actually manages to "pull off" the charade of channeling Ramtha? How is she able to ramble on for hours on end in an altered voice. She doesn't use notes and discusses everything she talks about at great length, in detail, with great authority, and never appears to be at a loss for words. She certainly deceives a lot of people. How do you think she does it?
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

My opinion (which probably isn't worth much as I have never seen her or her act, except laughable snippets on youtube and the most ridiculous old video of my partner's that was like some sort of rockumentary) is that she is an actor playing a part. Think of those daytime soaps that have been going for over 20 years (days of our lives etc) dont you think some of those actors could just maintain their role for days if they had to. Its not so hard when you have been playing a role for that long to be able to sustain a different voice, mannerisms etc for hours at a time. And as a lot of people have said on the forum, the voice has changed dramatically over the years.

For any poster who is a woman, we are experts at playing different roles, how many of us are different at the workplace, different at home, different with our friends. I think its a natural trait for us to adapt to different roles to the suit the environment we are in.

JZ obviously gets a total ego rush from what she is doing and thats enough to sustain her act, apart from the cash she sees rolling in. There's no magic its just human nature doing what it has to - to get what it wants.
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

Aussie -
The idea that JZR is performing a mere act is what really perplexes me. I have sat in those RSE audiences for hours and hours at a time and over days at a time and never for a second doubted that Ramtha was utilizing Judy's body as his channel. I remember phenomenal teachings that resonated deeply within me on both an intellectual and a spiritual level. It was an experience unlike any I've ever experienced in my entire lifetime.

I recall reading somewhere that Judy's "friend," Linda Evans (actress), said in an interview something to effect that "if JZ is merely acting, it's the best acting job she has ever seen in her life," and I agree with this statement. I have worked with and known some brilliant people in my life and some truly great B_ _ _ S_ _ _ _ artists, and none could hold a match to Ramtha when he was at his best. Can Judy really be [i]that[/i] talented?

In reply to your post, Aussie, yes, as women we are experts at playing different roles, but this performance at RSE exceeds any soap opera or acting role I've ever seen because of the content and intensity of information presented. My formal education ended with high school. Most of what I learned there was new information to me, and I didn't realize that it was recycled information. However, there are highly educated students that attend RSE, and many of them were equally drawn to the teachings just as I was.

I still really would like to know [b]how[/b] she does it.
tree
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Unread post by tree »

How is she able to ramble on for hours on end in an altered voice. She doesn't use notes and discusses everything she talks about at great length,
JZ uses this as a great tactic.

But this is what I have come up with.
How many times did you leave an event and someone come up to you and say." What did he teach?"

uh....uh.... :shock: :roll: uh..." I don't know, but it was GREAT!!!"

Rhetoric over and over again.
Look at the tapes. Just bs rolled over and over. After seeing or hearing some tapes (now, after having been out), can you come up with one concrete thing
that was 'taught'? I can't. Other than maybe that crap about Leonardo da Vinci being a woman, but in the same teaching, he
( I use that term very loosely) chastises the audience for missing "the greater teaching" and therefore we are complete imbeciles
and undeserving of any more "higher teachings."
What a load of crap.

To continue to say, "my daughteren can go on for hours and hours, even after 5 bottles of wine..."
But, to the rational and critical thinking minds in tact, NOTHING was actually said.
Just a crap load of words repeated over and over "supporting" the tenents of the teachings.

Then maybe borrow a word from the Dictinary of Q to support that some pion or photon supports you in creating your reality. :roll:

And then how about some of her made up words? When early on, she (as he) has to ask, " What be a Safeway?"
And then a bit down the line tell us how much we don't even know the meaning of our English language words and come
up with some sanskrit word for meade, and tell the two people in the audience how they harnessed their minds in remote viewing
what meade was in his native tongue.
BTW, what the hell was his native tongue anyway?
What did the people wear?
What was the economic culture of that time period?
(Now, JZ, go to work here for the next event. See if you can archaeologically find out what TRULY was on the earth 35,000 yrs ago
and NOT two moons. bwa hahahahah! I have a professer in mind...but maybe you have one of the scientists Danielle Graham is working with.)
don't get me started :twisted: :lol:
California Dreamin'
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Unread post by California Dreamin' »

"Other than maybe that crap about Leonardo da Vinci being a woman,"


Even that Leonardo da Vinci thing, I've heard the exact same statement said by at least two other sources, but at the moment I don't recall who. When I heard it though, a Red Flag immediately went up, since it was said prior to JZR's statement.

Also, the "thinking out of the box" teaching. JZR didn't originate that analogy either.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

I have been in almost 20 years of audiences and I have heard the same teachings taught over and over again. I have some crafts that I am very talented at in my non-EMF life (giggle). I can prattle on and on and on about them, and to someone who is new to it, they'd be impressed. To me, I sound like a broken record to myself, even though it's good info. Occasionally, I add a new twist, a new technique, that I then teach others about. I have heard Ramtha contradict "himself", many times.
I've heard "him" refer to himself as "I", when talking about JZ. "He" should have "her"....aha ! Heard that a few times, here n' there. Have also heard false information be given, too. In some instances, corrections were later made, sometimes it was glossed over and ignored, intentionally or not. How does JZ do it ? JZ has changed the teachings 180 degrees over the years, so there is NOT consistency at all. Just one example is when we were told never ever to swear as our mouth would expell such awful energy it would rot our teeth out !
Then, in later years, we were told swearing is just another form of expression, and even as his Godness self (hahaha), he is not above or below it, since he's just speaking our language. (Again blaming the student) The red flags are bountiful, especially when looking at the long term in RSE.

Yet, above and beyond all of that, I would like to suggest something else here.

For the sake of argument, let's say that Ramtha is real and as CA referenced, at his best, has done some great teachings. If that is true, he's real, and he treats human beings the way that he does, the question becomes, "What does it say as a reflection upon any person, that they would allow themselves to be treated like that ?" If the teachings are true, then Ramtha is fully capable of manifesting the school to be one that teaches only through RESPECT FOR OTHERS, and all the other high levels of virtue. He would also not have ANY need/want to manifest anything less than that in his reality, via people who steal from other students, rape them, abuse them, lie, etc., etc.

You can see where I'm going with holding RAMTHA accountable to his own teachings. It FAILS.

More to say, but have to go take the kids out for some social time with friends !
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G2G
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Unread post by G2G »

Initially impressed with Judith's talk as Judith, I thought, wow, she comes across so "down-to-earth." Then the channelling, I was taken aback. It was a monstrous event now that I look back, and I remember being in total shock when "he/she/it" walked into the room using Judith's voice plus the vulgar language. It was in direct contradiction to what I had read was being taught in the past.

In addition, practice something daily for 20-30 years, and you, too, can stand on a stage and babble on about the same thing for hours, adding or subtracting as you see fit. Thinking back, the only remarkable things were what I had done myself. As for "giving your power away," students don't realize that they are doing just that - giving their power away to Judith/Ramtha/RSE! I remember sitting in that field, on a very cold and wet morning, freezing with the guard yelling at the "students." I was focusing not on the "gridding the sky," but on staying warm. Then that guard's harsh authoritarian voice "you better be here before 6:30 am because the gates lock!" What the bleep? The feeling I had was that I traded one belief system for another. A true "godlike" being ought behave above it all - for this is illusion, no? The only real thing is love and I went into RSE KNOWING this, but while there I "felt" not love from many who were the teachers, but arrogance. When the "big guy/gal" finally made it's show on a Friday night, I felt contempt coming from whatever the "big guy/gal" is. Why would I wish to give up the love I already knew was Truth, for this charade? Oh yeah, that's right. I found my card, moved my kundalini, had an oob experience, did very well at remote view....and the best part was everyone was so happy and "up," - it was very "bonding" with those who shared the physical hardships of that week. The "high" and the "bonding" was what brought me back. The display of contempt by some teachers and the "big guy/gal" itself was what allowed me to TAKE BACK MY POWER from RSE, itself. You're addicted yet you are unaware of it! Become aware, and that's when you truly have taken your power back, not to mention the thousands of dollars given away to that place!
:roll: :roll: :roll:
"I never really understood religion - it just seemed a good excuse to give" - Ten Years After circa 1972
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

G2G said, "In addition, practice something daily for 20-30 years, and you, too, can stand on a stage and babble on about the same thing for hours, adding or subtracting as you see fit."


Yes, that was the point I was trying to make, also.
Another thought along that line is about how in the early days and years, JZR actually did NOT speak fluidly. There were many breaks in the "teachings", as JZR constantly needed to intersperse many "As it were, indeed", and "as it is seen now", etc. into many sentences. The delivery was very choppy and fragmented, "indeed" ! (LOL)

As the years went by, and the teachings became very repetitive, and more easily delivered. Scripted.

I also wanted to mention that numerous students noticed over the years, that we would get "new" teachings; new spins on the old, that were straight out of books ! Entire week long events would offer a few morsels of new information (or so it seemed that it was new!), and students would be, as Tree already said, buzzing about how AWESOME the latest teachings were. ...sigh...

California, in my opinion, you answered your own question and curiosity when you asked "How does s/he do the teachings for hours and hours....?", when you commented on the red flags that you did notice. Ultimately, no matter how "awesome" the delivery may (or may not) be, it's the red flags that should send a student running. For the sake of comment, if Ramtha is real, and JZ Knight and Ramtha are the "hope of the world", and the highest we have to look forward to, and up to, on this planet as setting Godlike examples of potential, then I find that deeply concerning and hope-dashing. I consider that I have reasonable expectations, (not overly high), but my standards are surely higher than what RSE has delivered.

Interesting thread ~ thought provoking.
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aussiegirl
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Unread post by aussiegirl »

I couldn't agree more with what has been said, in anything I have watched of JZ whatever she is trying to say could be said in about 30 seconds, the rest of the talk is filler and fluff and lots of stupid expressions and fingers in the air.

I actually cannot believe my partner can be bothered listening to the crap that comes out of JZ's mouth, I have no patience for someone who doesnt get to the point, no wonder noone ever graduates from that school, everything she has ever said could probably be condensed into one hour. Its the mind control, the music, the wine, the high she gets everyone on that stops them from seeing the lack of content. Its so easy when you dont believe to see through the performance and see all the discrepencies.

We have all looked at the Derryn Brown videos, even really intelligent well educated people can be manipulated and thats all JZ is doing, there is no Ramtha. If you still think Ramtha is real then watch different videos from different times, especially that early interview, JZ goes in and out of character all the time. Once you look with an open mind (a really open questioning mind not the quasi open mind that Ramsters (inlcuding my partner) have) you will see clearly that there isnt and never was a separate entity, its all JZ.

Its definitely part of the cult mentality to believe that it's impossible for JZ to be putting on an act (thats what she wants you to believe), its not impossible to anyone outside of RSE, its as clear as day.
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

Hello folks,

This is my first reply. I have never attended, but my partner and her whole family has 20 years under their collective belts...

I have watched several recordings and do agree with aussiegirl's analysis. I see nothing other than, perhaps, a level of psychosis in JZ. I had a thought that perhaps she lived the act of a split-personality so long, that she now truly believes herself... reminds me of Manson... and not Marilynn :(

She/he is idolized by my partner (on some level...) and can do no wrong. I imagine that it is easier for "believers" to gloss over blemishes to keep the appearance of "perfection" in her/him. I see little difference between this and drug/alcohol/food/sex/chaos/YouNameIt addiction.

Humbled
tree
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Unread post by tree »

Hi Humbled! Welcome.
Great Assesment, and wow, I don't know how you do it, enduring all the JZ is holier than thou effects.

Glad to see your views. They are very welcome!
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Hi Humble,

Nice to meet ya.

When reading your post, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "I wonder how they accept him as part of the family?"

Depending on what you've read (posts on EMF), you may/may not have noticed that others in a similar situation as you have experienced various things. One is family members who get real quiet when the non-student is around. Don't want to give away secrets to villagers (non-students). That sort of thing. Other times, current students are very open and vocal (even in restaurants, LOL), and talk openly about the teachings. I'm curious what your experience has been along that line ?
HumblePied Piper
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Unread post by HumblePied Piper »

Thanks for the welcome,

Tree - She doesn't speak much about JZ or JZR to me; I have made my views known to her on multiple occasions when we were dating, and moreso when she moved in with me. Those conversations "tire" her and produce no good results (in her opinion) for our relationship. In essence, I do not have to listen to her speak of her sentiments toward JZr, yet I understand that her not speaking, not conversing, not communicating with me is also detrimental to our relationship.

Whatcha - Her family has been wonderful to me so far. This is in no small part because she has been going through a terrible divorce with another insane/alcoholic ramster. Her family sees the support and love I give her and her daughter; it is genuine. I am open with my views with all of her family, as I want no secrets (and want to model that for her). A 12 step program I work (very dilligently, with great help from some great people) has taught me to be as accepting as I can, and be as loving and respectful as possible without my boundaries being crossed -- that, at least, has earned their respect.

I would love to share more of my personal trials, tribulations and hopefully (Godspeed) some progress, while getting the feedback that I SEE will benefit the journey I am starting. I believe I should probably post these things on a different thread.

Again, thank you for the welcome. I have spent the last 3 nights devouring the information herein. I cannot do this alone. Thanks all of you for being available.
Whatchamacallit
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Unread post by Whatchamacallit »

Humble,

You may have already read this somewhere else on the site, but it might help you to help them, by further educating yourself by reading. Not sure how you'd handle having such a book around the home with partner there, but I found Taking Back Your Life, by Lilich and Tobias, very down to earth, and educational. It aptly described the stages (on all levels), that a person goes through getting into/out of a cult-cultlike group. I think that information might serve as a powerful tool for you to have.

I totally agree with you about maintaining YOUR healthy boundaries and working within them. One step at a time. Who's to say the difference a year can make; and it comes 'round quickly !

Good luck !
tree
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Unread post by tree »

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=M ... itesearch=# cult recovery 101
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=M ... itesearch=# cult recovery 201

for further down the road Humbled.
your 12 step comment reminded me of this.

and I am so not surprised by the alcoholic/insane Ramster.
There are many who fit that description.
I hope you are the last stop in your partner's list of relationships.
blueheeler
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Unread post by blueheeler »

Knight, you are so deluded about your current occupation that you have no idea your consciousness if on the infra red level to begin with (to use your terminology).
intune2u2
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Ramtha said he was leaving

Unread post by intune2u2 »

I too believe that the early works are valid, but Ramtha said he would leave in ten years and that was around 1985. After that I felt JZ was trying to be Ramtha but that Ramtha said what he came to say.
Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho »

Welcome to EMF intune2u2, and thank you for your post.

Please forgive me but your post has left me a little confused. Would you be so kind as to clarify what works you believe are valid?
I am also curious as to whether you now believe Ramtha is or was real, and if you are current in RSE.

Respectfully and with much love, Kensho
intune2u2
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believe

Unread post by intune2u2 »

I actually believe, due to my own personal experiences, that what Ramtha said was very true. I also believe that Ramtha left when he said he would. Now JZ tries to be Ramtha and the RSE is JZ based. When I watch the 1984 85 videos I am certain that I am hearing the truth. Just as the Bible says, Have you not heard it said, you are Gods.
However, JZ is destroying her own self and the lives of others trying to pretend Ramtha did not leave when he said he would.
Kensho
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Unread post by Kensho »

intune2u2,

Thanks for the clarification.

I wish you happiness and an easy path.
Much love, Kensho
Indigo
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Re: Who lies behind the eyes ???

Unread post by Indigo »

I wasn't going to post again. But, it is quite interesting to me to find myself going back through several of these threads on a quiet, sunny afternoon. I am still stunned by the radical change in what I knew as Ramtha in the 80's and early 90's. I met Ramtha and moved to the Yelm area a few months before there was an RSE. I wanted only to say that I do remember the early days. Ram was nurturing, kind, entertaining, outrageously funny, strict, sometimes stern, and, quite often, joyful and always entertaining. No one was singled out and debased, no profanity, no drinking, etc. I also remember Ram saying he would leave in 10 years time, as someone above posted.

I left, after several years in the "school", 5(?) or so, because the atmosphere had changed dramatically and the whole area seemed filled with sad, depressed, frightened and very poor people, as a generality. I was sick of rain and cold, too. Yes, there were those who came with substantial wealth and still lived comfortably. But, overall, from what I saw, there was little joy and much fear, lack, and sadness. Things were changing. The tank, the field work, sitting in the rain and snow for days, doing the exercise (what was the word? Tuhomo?) where we stripped down to our underwear in the snow, at dawn, to melt a ring around us with the discipline? Boy, and that was an honor to be part of that group- jeez-what was I thinking! No, things were definitely changing and it did not resonate with my soul or mind.

However, upon finding this site just a month or so ago, and then watching JZ's recent tapes as Ramtha, and hearing the stories of what RSE had disintegrated into, posted here, is, frankly, in my opinion both frightening and sickening. The person on the video of April this year (Ram/JZ?) is not the same person/entity, whatever, that taught us, walked on the field with us, encouraged us, yes, seemed to love us. That was no enlightened being/person, period. The mannerisms are totally different, the appearance is remarkably different. (taking into account 25 years) Do I say Ram was real, no I do not, I am truly undecided. And, it doesn't matter. I still have some thoughts that the first few years were real. JZ's greed and vanity were apparent, even in the very early days. However, if she was faking Ramtha (then) she was one extremely brilliant woman. I fear for the well being of those remaining in RSE, truly.

That's all I have to say. I wish I had saved a few of those first Ramtha Dialogue tapes to share with the new students, or those now leaving RSE..it is 180 degrees from what is going on in Yelm now, except for the DTC talk. Run, run, run as fast as you can.......that's my humble opinion. Leave that place. There is a wonderful life waiting for you.
Blessings,
Indigo
appealing
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Re: Who lies behind the eyes ???

Unread post by appealing »

Run, run, run as fast as you can.......that's my humble opinion. Leave that place. There is a wonderful life waiting for you.
Well said Indigo!

Appealing :)
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Dove
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Re: Who lies behind the eyes ???

Unread post by Dove »

Thank you for your post Indigo.

It is very interesting hearing insight from a student from the early days in the school. I remember my shock viewing JZ as Ramtha on the Merv Griffin show on YouTube for the first time in 2009. I had been in the school for 3 years at that stage. The Ramtha on that show was so completely different to the Ramtha I knew. I kept thinking he's a round shouldered, bent over kindly old man not the "ramrod" straight warrior almost "Rock star" personality that we know today. And the predictions that Ramtha gave on that show (sometime in the 80's) was the last nail in the coffin for me - not one of them has come true, and Ramtha even said on the show, "the earth will not move on its axis" - now of course he/she is saying it will move on its axis.

I do hope you keep posting from time to time, it is greatly appreciated.
Indigo
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Re: Who lies behind the eyes ???

Unread post by Indigo »

There is no comparison between the Ramtha of the early days, as I remember, and what is now being shown on YouTube and quoted here on EMF. I am puzzled why anyone would pay that kind of money, invest the time and effort and be abused. And, mostly video teachings? No.. I also recall that absolutely no photos were allowed of JZ when channeling Ramtha, there was to be no commercialism, no exploitation. I was once in Jeff Knight's home,before he died, but after he was separated from JZ, and was surprised to see a photo of JZ when channeling Ramtha. I imagine he was exempt from the strict rule regarding photographs.

To see the commercialism now is quite shocking. Major instillation of fear regarding TDTC was starting to take place around the time I left, building UG's was a massive undertaking and many unqualified people were building these potential "death traps" in my opinion, some people sold space on their land for others to build UGs as a way to make money, etc. etc. Now, there was an urgency to get out of the city, get on your own land, etc., prior to that, but not the fear mongering that started to take place. Happy Hovel was selling amazing amounts of bulk food (given today's increase in food prices, that may turn out to be a good investment if you didn't go crazy over it.) Balance was hard to find because of all the fear that was pervading Yelm. It seems to have only escalated.

To those about to leave or who just left,well done! I fear for what is about to happen there I really do.
It has veered way off the path of the original message.

Wishing you a joyful day.
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