an unguarded door!

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David McCarthy
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an unguarded door!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:00 pm

Hi everyone,
I have always been a "half believer" in supernatural powers, and oddly, I reserved a special place for the Gurus and Shamans of India.
Recently I have been questioning why I would support something so extraordinary that I had no personal experience with?
I understand now that my comfort in believing in “supernatural powers “ acted as a buffer to the seemingly harsh realities of life!
that perhaps were seeded during several traumatic experiences in my childhood,
during those horrific moments it was absolutely necessary and natural for my heart and mind to create a buffer zone of sorts! a “magical” place to escape to.
But in doiing so it created a fracturing of the mind that for many never fully healed.
Spiritual predators such as JZ Knight know how to capitalize on this fracturing of the mind "an unguarded door" they gain entrance with loving words, deceptions and extraordinary promises,
but once in they take up residence and and go about their business of feeding those very monsters and fears we were trying to rid ourselves from.
I see now that having such an “open mind” was the very door that allowed JZ Knight’s “Ramtha” to come waltzing into my life without the burglar alarms sounding…
But I have since come to understand that superstition and deception is one of the main causes of human suffering, that life itself is the extraordinary I had been searching for all along.
enjoy the videos….very “enlightening indeed” :shock:

David.

YouTube - supernatural revealed in india
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Kz8Fzr ... re=related

YouTube - secret of levitation in india
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSivpBHUmE

YouTube - Sai Baba Exposed - Part 1 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwOecpMk ... re=related

YouTube - A floating Dutchman in DC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OvVltLw ... re=related
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:47 am

Thank you for this, David. My thoughts on the matter, drawn from my own life, are very similar to yours. It seems that trauma, neglect, abuse, lack of love, etc, in childhood will leave us bound to try to put right what went wrong, heal, fill the void, gain the love we need. This often leads us to repeat history by being drawn to the very situations which will inflict the damage all over again. The mirror image of this, of course, are those who try to put the damage right by perpetrating it upon others, in some screwed up way. In every way, the one door opens onto the other. They are made for each other.


WofthesunEofthemoon

Another Dimension60
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:47 pm

yes W.E. - i too have seen that we who have experienced abuse of some form in our early years have a 'pattern' of abuse that we seem to keep repeating until we can recognize it and shift our perceptions of ourself - and it seems to take a lifetime to do so.
Aside from the utter horror of all that Sai Babba is/isn't - it's VERY interesting that he has had political and police protection - just like jz. ... .... There's still another story beyond this story - I just don't know what it is.

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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by ex » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:48 pm

the most interesting figure for me is the guy who is shocked in the beginning, promises help [words are not enough]. than abandons his own sense of right and wrong. get pampered by the guru and is a total turncoat. several years of a life including family with bonds to a cult make it hard to open the eyes to realty. of course at jzrs place everything is different isn't it ?

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Robair
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by Robair » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:23 pm

Hello Everyone
I know I am going to get in trouble for that but then again trouble is my middle name
Please don’t get me wrong here I am not trying to diminished anyone childhood trauma .
But I would not agree that it is the main reason that most get sucked in a cult like RSE.
My wife and I Were bolt raised by very love parents and still got stuck in JZ snare .
For one thing David and I have a different point of view about JZ he see her with much more compassion Explaining lot of her behavior as coming for a bad childhood. I don’t , I really do believe and know that there is real evil :twisted: (for lack of better world) persons and she is one of them, I know that some psychiatric or most of them would find something in her childhood that is making her behaved that way, therefore blaming and excusing lot of actions on her childhood experiences. Again please don’t get me wrong I know that childhood experience can and has affected millions of people in life still and always will but again I don’t think that it is the MAIN reason for people getting sucked in cults and don’t think that it is the reason that JZ is the way she is now , I see her as nothing more than a crook and a Charlatan. Did I got off topic again? :-)
Oldone
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:37 pm

Bless your heart, Oldone, you have no argument with me. There are evidently many people who are drawn into the JZ type of trap who have not had any difficulties in their childhood. I am not sure that I concur with your thoughts on the mainwhys and wherefores as to why one should join a cult, or not, as I know of no studies which have been done to show the proportion of one to the other. Therefore, perhaps, we simply don't know. Obviously, there is some kind of specific vulnerability for some people which may be traced back to childhood. (Does anyone have any specific information on this?) However, I do thank you for your compassion in this regard. Speaking for myself, it is much appreciated.

Is JZ just evil (for want of a different word)? A sociopath/(once called) a psychopath, with no conscience, or way to relate to the rest of us, except to find a way to fulfil her own needs at our expense? I really don't know. But it is very possible. I suppose I come from a place that looks at what a person does, and calls that 'evil', or 'negative', or 'bad', or whatever, rather than the person themselves. However, as any psychologist knows, there are some people who are just born 'different', lacking a vital component which makes the rest of us at least half-way human. In their case, perhaps, evil is as evil does.

Much love

W.E.

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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by Robair » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:24 pm

Hello W.E. Moon
First I would like to thank you for posting ,your write beautifuly with knowledge and wisdom you have made EMF better with you contribution.
Yes it would be interesting to see research on that subject; Joe might know more than us on this.
I was raised Catholic went to a Catholic school and served mass for 4 years, I could somehow blamed it for joining RSE and blame my parents to make me do all of that stuff, would I have done so definitely would have made me fit better in the school but really never did even when JZ was calling the Catholic Church the great Whore, Now I know it was just the Tea Pot Calling the kettle Black.
Again I do not want to diminished anyone childhood bad experiences, I have no doubt it is one of the reasons for many to joint any group.
I have seen the pendulum going crazy swinging on this subject of blaming something in your childhood, to the old days not blaming it enough, these days blaiming it for all kind of defferent thing. I think it has been way over used by many in different fields consequently diminishing the one who had real nightmare childhood experiences. I do not consider going to a Christian Church one of them, this would be a stretch for me, I also think that too many people play the blaming game not taking responsibility for their own action, or decisions.
I do not blame JZ for my participation in RSE,first I am mad at myself to have done so and really P.O. at Charlatans like her that know very well how and who to target to make money taking advantage of honest and naïve people in search of spiritual ways to better them self.
I know I can not fight everything that going on but I can fight this Crooked Charlatan
My Two cents
Oldone
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by Another Dimension60 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:53 am

My reference to childhood experiences is not at all about blame; and is in fact all about taking responsibility for one's actions - which begins with recognizing patterns of behavior/situations/types of people in my life. So, for instance, a few years ago as I was attempting to understand/recognize/describe jz's personality, (the discussion was very big on the narcissistic personality stuff at the time...) I began to think of someone i've known for over 40 years and have called friend only to recognize I'd be conned and used all along.... .... And the description of the personality was similar to the personality of other people I knew at the time. .... So it's important for me to recognize the pattern, the personality dynamic, the hook that charms me.... --.... And damn if I still don't get 'hooked' - I'm just getting quicker to get out/away.
And - there are different 'types' of people who attend/are hooked into RSE -- for sure --- Not every one had an overtly abusive childhood. Not everyone was somehow told regularly that they were not enough.
i think that some of us were drawn for overtly spiritual intentions and some of us drawn 'cause we wanted the promised power(s).
So for me anyway, to recognize patterns which began in childhood is not about blame - - -- And, I certainly don't see JZ's childhood experiences as an excuse for her behavior. If all the women in this world who were molested in their childhood became jz-like scam artists, there wouldn't be many women customers.....
And, bottom line - the why and how I got hooked into ramthaland remains a Mystery to me! :D

And - keep on rocking n rolling Oldone....hugs

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an unguarded door!Theories on Sociopathic Personality Disord

Unread post by David McCarthy » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:36 am

Hi Oldone..
just to followup on
Yes it would be interesting to see research on that subject; Joe might know more than us on this.
There are complex and parallel issues to be explored here that are seldom mentioned in the mainstream media when it comes to cult leaders and cults.
1. what is the cause of sociopathy..."Nature or Nurture" or both?
2. why some people are more prone to be victims of a sociopaths than others?
3. Responsibility and accountability
4....
My hero on this subject is the psychologist Robert Hare
wikipedia link..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hare_
I agree with Oldone that JZ Knight is a total charlatan and should be held to account in a court of law.
it may be true that children brought up in a perfectly loving environment may still turn out to be sociopaths "perhaps" due to some genetic flaw
and children exposed to the most horrendous abuse may grow up to be compassionate and brilliant human beings.
The point I was trying to make in my earlier post is..those of us that have been traumatized by a sociopath during our childhood are perhaps "fractured" and more vulnerable to a sociopath entering our lives through that fracture.
I believe most of us are about as responsible for joining a cult as being hit by a drunk driver!
Thank you Oldone, AD60, WofthesunEofthemoon, ex,
I dont really have an answer but..
Lets shine a light on this dark subject and see what scurries out from under "Ramtha's rock..... :shock:

David.

_________________________________________

Causes of Psychopathy
Theories on Sociopathic Personality Disorder

Jul 30, 2008 Jennifer Copley
There is much disagreement as to whether psychopathy is a function of neurological factors or the result of some aspect of environment.
A study of 1,000 boys in New Zealand found a version of a gene that is linked with antisocial Behaviour but that only appears to lead to criminality when its possessor is raised in an abusive environment. While this particular interaction provides a basis for criminality but not necessarily psychopathy, it does illustrate the importance of both nature and nurture in the expression of personality. Evidence suggests that nature, or heredity, accounts for approximately 50% of the expression of psychopathic traits, and environment the remainder.
Nature
There is evidence that psychopathy is to some degree a heritable neurological problem. Studies have shown that:

• Psychopaths don’t have the same physiological responses to fear that constrain the Behaviour of normal people, such as rapid heartbeat, sweating, dry mouth, trembling and muscle tension.
• Psychopaths don’t have physiological responses to emotionally charged words such as “love” and “death” the way regular people do, suggesting that they process emotional stimuli differently.
• When one identical twin is psychopathic, the other is more likely to be psychopathic than those in the general population.
• Adoption studies indicate that children can inherit psychopathic traits from a psychopathic parent even when they are raised by different parents.
• When compared to non-psychopaths, differences have been found in a number of brain chemicals among psychopaths.
Nurture
It is now well-known that those who are abused and traumatized in childhood are more inclined to abuse others in adulthood. Unfortunately, this has made it easier for psychopaths to do what they do best—play on the sympathies of others—by claiming to have suffered abusive childhoods. But psychopaths are just as likely to have come from loving, nurturing homes as from abusive ones, and many abused children do not grow up to be psychopaths.
Although abuse can worsen existing psychopathic traits, it does not cause psychopathy. However, it can shape the way in which this personality disorder manifests. A psychopath raised in a loving home is more inclined to become a shady businessman, a romantic user or a nonviolent criminal, whereas one raised in a violent, neglectful home is more likely to become a violent criminal.
Children who suffer from a lack of attachment due to early deprivation and neglect often exhibit symptoms similar to those of the psychopath including law breaking and cruelty. However, they can be distinguished by a propensity for psychological distress, anxiety and low self-esteem, in contrast to the psychopath who has a high opinion of himself and is not inclined to suffer from anything other than frustrated desires. Also, while psychopaths usually work hard at appearing normal in order to manipulate people, those with attachment disorder are more likely to be chronically hostile and off-putting, swinging between belligerence and desperate neediness rather than exhibiting the surface charm of the psychopath. Additionally, the majority of psychopaths do not suffer severe early childhood deprivation.
Social Forces
Many criminologists and sociologists believe that psychopathy is caused entirely by social forces, which include not only childhood home life but also the broader social environment. There is some support for this theory in the fact that certain cultures have a higher incidence of psychopathy than others. Places such as the United States where the incidence is as high as 4% and increasing steadily ascribe to an individualist, self-promoting ethic, whereas places where the incidence is just 0.03-0.14%, such as Japan and China, favour an ethos of connectedness and personal responsibility.
Read on
• Narcissism and Psychopathy
• Antisocial Personality Research
• Antisocial Personality in Children
Psychopaths exist in all cultures, even the relatively isolated Inuit, who view them as irredeemable and have traditionally dealt with them by shoving them off ice flows. It is possible that a similar percentage of people are born with the innate tendency for psychopathy in every culture. However, in some places all elements of the social environment strongly discourage the expression of the associated behavioural traits. In other words, being a psychopath is more likely to pay off in America than it is in Japan, so the uglier traits are more inclined to be expressed in one place and suppressed in another.
Evolution and Natural Selection
There are two potential strategies for getting genetic material into the next generation. The first is to have few children and take very good care of them in the hope that they will survive to reproduce. A second strategy is to have as many children as possible in the hope that even if you don’t care for them, at least some will survive into adulthood. Psychopaths follow the second strategy.
Psychopaths are notoriously irresponsible when it comes to birth control. They also tend to be sexually promiscuous, and to abandon lovers and families regularly when they move onto the next conquest. Though they tend to have many children, most don’t take care of them, and those that do often abuse them in some way. Even if their children die through neglect (which is particularly common among psychopathic mothers), they are likely to have more. Diane Downs, killer of her own children, worked as a surrogate mother. Another female psychopath said chillingly, “I can always have another,” after one of her lovers beat her young daughter to death.
Brain Damage
Some individuals who sustain damage to the frontal lobes exhibit behavioural similarities to psychopaths, such as poor long-term planning, shallow affect, aggressiveness, low tolerance for frustration and impulsivity. However, research has not found brain damage in diagnosed psychopaths.
Further Reading
For a comprehensive list of references on psychopathic personality disorder, visit Dr. Robert Hare’s website. For more information on psychopathy, see Personality Traits of a Psychopath, Behavioural Traits of Psychopaths and How Psychopaths Exploit Others.
References:
• Nature via Nurture by Matt Ridley
• The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, PhD
• Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us by Dr. Robert D. Hare

Read more at Suite101: Causes of Psychopathy: Theories on Sociopathic Personality Disorder .......
Theories on Sociopathic Personality Disorder
http://www.suite101.com/content/causes- ... thy-a62417
_________________________________________________________________

Mind of a Murderer: Programme Transcript

Narrator: But there are those who argue that deeply traumatic influences in early childhood will surely have a damaging effect on an otherwise normal child, possibly causing psychopathy.

Martin Smedley: People are going to say, if you've been abused as a child, if you've been deprived, if your environment's been so shocking, then inevitably that's going to have consequences in the way that you impact on your environment and on other people. But it's just not enough. It's an inadequate answer. If you look at areas of deprivation in the world, if you look at Third World countries, if you look at children who've got nothing, who've been abused, they don't turn automatically into psychopaths. This is something that is innate to the child, which the child is born with - not, I would stress, directly inherited. It's not that if your dad's a psychopath then you're a psychopath but it's much more to do with a combination of genes working together or not working properly together that creates a predisposition for this.

Narrator: Martin Smedley works with seriously disturbed children at a leading London hospital. He's certain there are signs of psychopathy in some of them who are very young but the law forbids him to diagnose it formally as such.

Martin Smedley: You can't call a child a psychopath; you can't call a child somebody with a personality disorder. One is still of the view that children can change, that change can take place over time, and that personality disorder is something that you have as an adult and not as a child. I think there also ethical considerations for taking a small child and saying: this person's a psychopath. It has a certain sense of inevitability about it, of incurableness, and one doesn't want to look at children in that way. I think one needs to intervene as early as possible if there is any suspicion that this child is likely to develop a personality disorder that is likely to become psychopathic or is showing signs of psychopathy. One needs to be able to identify what those signs are and intervene.

Mind of a Murderer: Programme Transcript
http://www.hare.org/links/equinox.html
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:12 pm

Thank you, Oldone, for your kind comments.

I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on this topic - so many of them mirror my own views and do remind me of what an extremely complex subject this is.

With regard to the links and quotes that David has provided with regard to the psychopthic nature, I have to say that I am particulary interested in the idea of shoving JZK/R off an ice flow. HWAHAHAHAH (diabolical laughter). :twisted:

What can one say?

(No, not really)

Love

W.E.

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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by Robair » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:57 pm

I understanding very well that this is an uncharted subject ,but not crazy about psychologist psychiatrist or any of those .They have to many theories.
David mentioned that JZ should be taking to court, well that all fine and dandy but imagine for a moment that some Crooked lawyer would take her case decide to bring her childhood as an excuse for her behavior , JZ being the good actress that she is would play the part so well that Hollywood would give her an Oscar for her performance. The crooked lawyers would brings lot of those Psy, guys to evaluate her also bringing everyone from her childhood that know her to testified that she has always been that way, blame all ramsters to have contributed to her problem all those years by helping supporting her sickness. The jury would be bombarded with all kind of psycho stuff not understanding most of it like myself do not, come up with a verdict that she did not know what she was doing all those years that she is really sick and need a lot lots of therapy maybe they would called it privates sessions with a master get lot of money for those sessions, After a while she will be doing so much better according to the psy guys that she would be let free and still enjoy her millions. Lawyers Psychologists or whoever would have made lot of money, and JZ left free to enjoy one of her favorite hobby her boy toy.
When it all said and done, she would have time to come after EMF suing us to have also contributed to her sickness .
Ok OK I know it is not a laughable subject but could not resist.
Chill out
Oldone
I Value Things Not For What They Worth But For What They Represent

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:56 am

Direct and to the point, Oldone. I am not at all offended by your views on the psychological/psychiatric view on all of this. The scenario you have painted, whilst bringing a wry smile to my face, also fits an altogether possible situation. (See, I said she should have been shoved off an ice flow!) Any funds in the kitty for fighting a court action on behalf of EMF, David? :lol:

W.E.

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David McCarthy
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:39 am

Any funds in the kitty for fighting a court action on behalf of EMF, David?
Hi W.E.
The only EMF kitty we have is my cat -- ;-) --
I think the topic of fighting a court action on behalf of EMF deserves its own thread...
I will say this for now..
EMF suing JZ Knight does seem a logical action and there are posters very upset that we choose "at this point" not to take that road.
We believe that going after JZ Knight in the courtroom will causes more harm than good and feed into the divisive nature of RSE.
I think the most important question to ask is..
What is the best way EMF can help former members and their love ones recover from RSE.... while also serving as a beacon to warn others about the dangers and deceptions of RSE involment?
The process of cult recovery is fraught with minefields just waiting to explode when members step outside the cultic path and RSE is no exception.
JZ Knight understands very well we will not be silenced nor intimidated by her Ramtha mumbo jumbo act nor her lowlife highly paid attorneys.
The Pandora's box of RSE deceptions that would undoubtedly be opened should EMF be forced into showdown with JZ Knight would prove disastrous for her and her RSE business.
Thats my tuppence worth.
anyone?
David
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

WofthesunEofthemoon
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by WofthesunEofthemoon » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:08 pm

If I was a rich woman, David, I would be prepared to devote my millions to fight in court on behalf of revealing JZ as the damaging individual that she is. After all, what is money? Truth is truth and should be fought for with a bright sword, which maybe all we have.

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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by David McCarthy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:34 pm

Thank you for that W.E...... :D
But he has nothing on at all, cried at last the whole people....

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Sad Grandfather
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Re: an unguarded door!

Unread post by Sad Grandfather » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:32 am

And if anyone ever decides to start a class action against her, I would certainly like to help. Of course, I have not suffered direct harm from her other than stealing the minds of my daughter and grandchildren. I would like to shut down her scam.
Down with Judith Hampton Knight!

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