Open for discussion and exchange of views.
You only truly fulfill your potential when you stop complaining about your circumstances and search for the hidden logic that regulates your existence. Once you understand this, you stop blaming others for whatever has gone wrong in your life, and you improve your character by cultivating positive thoughts. You also stop fighting your outward conditions and progress more rapidly by discovering the hidden powers and possibilities within yourself.
Law, not confusion, is the dominating principle in the universe. Justice, not inequity, is the soul and substance of life. Righteousness, not corruption, is the force that molds the spiritual government of the world. This being so, you'll find that all is right in the universe if you right yourself......
Today Is A Good Day.
- David McCarthy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2509
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
- Location: New Zealand
To my mind placing this kind of quote in a CULT recovery forum such as EMF is insensitive and clumsy.You only truly fulfill your potential when you stop complaining about your circumstances
I know you mean well but...
Do you not understand that this form of armchair philosophy is exactingly what the likes of JZR uses to subjugate RSE members into Ramtha zombies and "spiritual enslavement"?,
that further confounds them from waking up... "complaining"...
Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found
out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them;
and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both.
The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Frederick Douglass (1817? - 1895)
Frederick Douglass - Wikipedia,.....
Compassion, the very book you quote from was also on the rse recommended reading list and as such is bound to trigger unpleasant memories for many people here.
Also, the ideas in the book (whether valid or not) are notorious for being used by cult leaders and groups to spin their webs and seemingly add reason to their insanity. On the surface it looks so simple (perhaps too simple) and on further examination we see the same old patterns of blaming the victim, impossible goals and magical thinking emerge.
I'm sorry, but this so called 'transformational classic' is in my not so humble opinion at best misguided drivel and at worst -in the hands of the likes of JZ Knight- another tool for deception that serves to twists the minds of unsuspecting hopefuls.
- The Beatles
I am really sorry that I thought this website was a sharing and caring website for 'family and friends'. However, I did not realize that this website was a recovery website and that RSE was pronounced officially a cult.
Dr. Gay Hendricks is a psychologist in good standing and a professor that taught at Colorado University prior to his good works in California.
I have never been aware that his writings crossed into a contributing benefit for RSE.
As you personally know, David, I have not been 'one of those' that tripped over into the RSE threshold entrance. Many years ago many of us were aware of Judith. However, we passed because it didn't reflect our path of music for the Soul.
What are the real 'feelings' inside each of you individually that projected here your parental posting?
- David McCarthy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2509
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:09 am
- Location: New Zealand
And so it is, The James Allen's quote you posted belongs no more on EMF than it does on the wall of a rape crisis center.I am really sorry that I thought this website was a sharing and caring website for 'family and friends'.
unfortunately for an organization to be "officially" pronounced "a cult" it is to late for its victims,However, I did not realize that this website was a recovery website and that RSE was pronounced officially a cult.
"Jones Town" a case in point, and yes, this website recognizes RSE for what it really is, a destructive Cult and JZ Knight a religious cult leader.
My real "feelings" are what I already posted, I can only repeat what others have already posted to you...What are the real 'feelings' inside each of you individually that projected here your parental posting?
That you are blaming the victims of Cult abuse masked as wisdom and "compassion", I "feel" you are uneducated to the nature of the RSE cult indoctrinations and in being so, by posting such quotes and philosophies on EMF you are unwittingly supporting RSE.
With all due respect; and deep appreciation for your efforts to share your "path of music for your soul" with others...what you have posted of late sounded very much like what many of us heard at RSE. A simplistic view and instruction that pretty much mirrored a directive given/imposed by another. "All you have to do is...", is common to them all.
You say that you knew of Judith some time ago but chose a different 'path'. I'm happy for you in that you did so; I really am. I trust then that you have the insight now to recognize organizations, which under the guise of promoting knowledge and wisdom, may in fact not be all that they seem.
Case in point: The Guy Hendricks whom you have referred to is affiliated with two organizations; each of which parallel RSE's method of 'transformation'.
Basically it goes something like this: You are messed up, confused and are wasting your time trying to figure it out yourself...so we'll get you on the right train of thought, teach you to fix your life and then it will all be good and lovey dovey (if you are IN OUR community).
That may be OK too, but it is also wise to know what the destination of these trains of thought are before one climbs aboard. Simply put, will they actually take you where you want to go, or are they potentially just a train wreck waiting to happen?
I find it interesting that the courses and training sessions of these organizations cost about the same as the events do at RSE, and that their web sites are very similar. There are short video clips from "teachers" to inspire would be students and a general breakdown of how wonderful the world is/can be when looked at through their eyes. This isn't to say that the world isn't wonderful...I believe that it is; but IMO the wonder does not belong to any one belief system or school of thought.
It is also interesting that the Gaia Illumination University utilizes the characters from the movie "The Secret" as resource people/teachers. Lots of NLP & Ericksonian techniques are promoted in that film and by the people who contributed to it; just like it is promoted and used at RSE.
IMO about all these 'groups/schools/universities agree on is that the others are wrong and that for a price (not necessarily monetary), they will share what is 'right' if you sign up.
Compassion, I am making an assumption here, but the gist of your recent posts leads me to think that it is possible that you took the $1295 'training session' recently, and you are now motivated to share it with/on EMF. If not, I apologize in advance for the assumption, but the 'instructions' you cite seem to be right out of these types of self-help groups.
For those who are interested in pursuing them, the links to these two organizations are posted below.
How about if we allow people to make their own choices about what is the right way to think and the right path for them?
$ 595.00 for a two day seminar at the Hendricks Institute
1295.00 for a five day training session that will teach you:
?How to teach the five essential skills of conscious relationship: Commitment, authenticity, 100% responsibility, appreciation and creativity.
?How to facilitate breakthrough in long-standing impasses.
?How to assist people in moving from complaint to commitment.
?How to use breath, movement and body-centered techniques to speed up problem-resolution.
?How to eliminate blame and criticism from relationships.
?How to resolve sex and money issues in close relationships.
QUOTE: "One of the unique aspects of our training events is the presence and participation of advanced students from our leadership and transformation program. These leaders assist with facilitating, exploring issues with participants upon request, and supporting a deeper experience and exploration of essence in the whole group."
Much love, unbound
Thank you for your apology. I have not meet, I have not been to any Gay (not Guy) Hendricks classes, seminars...etc. (have no intention of doing so). However, your postings I will review. Thank you.
Judith - I have never met her, just knew of her. My entry to this website has been because I watched a beautiful Spirit make entry into RSE. I have been here looking and reading to put pieces of the puzzle of understanding together not looking for projected anger energy from others. Although, anger is a part lack of knowledge. It is gOOd. Thank you.
I am in the professional world. In addition, I came into my first breathe at birth with the 'thrist for knowledge'. I play and dance to my own music. Furthermore, I take responsibility for my life choices (when my hair needs to be combed, I make the decision to comb it...I don't need someone else's permission). Thank you.
Furthermore, I can tell when a RSE has been on my computer........because there is 'white-out' on the screen. HA! HA! Thank you.
The only monies that I like to spend for nurturing from other sources other than 'within' is food from the grocery store. I love baked chicken. Thank you.
David, the BIG crime in any adult envionrment is the abuse of children because they are still in a molding way. The insult is the RAPE of a piece of their SPRIT and in the case of the beautiful Spirit that I knew there was a child within that got financially raped by RSE even tho the adult part gave participating permission.
If any one wants to know anything about me.....ASK....please don't project subjectively.
From what I have read, you have not been to RSE or given your power away to anything similar. If I had not been involved in RSE or a similar organization, I would not have understood this message board and its participants. Your recent posts seem to show that lack of empathy.
As you were unaware, your comments reflect the New Age teachings (including RSE) that ex-RSE students have been indoctrinated with. I have the book ?As a Man Thinketh? by James Allen as it was recommended by JZ/R. It seems that you are coming from that perspective. Hence, you would think that the ?victims? here are not taking self-responsibility, blaming JZ and complaining about JZ and life after RSE. For your information, JZ is a con artist, and her school of enlightenment is built on lies and deception. Evidence as per many posts here. JZ?s recycled New Age teachings serve as a ?cop out? for her deception as you have inadvertently reminded us in James Allen?s book.
Some ex-RSE students were ?compassionate? enough to set up this website as a warning to others about the Ramtha deception. Thank you David and friends. I do not think this is a recovery website but there are ex-RSE students here in various stages of recovery. Some people?s lives were more wrecked than others. Part of recovery can be to talk about it with other ?victims?. It would be normal to be ?angry?, an emotion that New Age thinkers (including RSE supporters) seem to dislike.
You may not be aware but your posts about ex-RSE students needing to take self-responsibility and stop blaming JZ would be similar to telling the ?victims? in the ?Grief and Bereavement? forums to stop complaining about their circumstances. How do you think your comments would be beneficial to their state of mind? If you were in their shoes, would you appreciate being told that?
I know you have gOOd intentions but it may be difficult to understand the minds of ex-RSE students if you have never been deceived by someone like JZ. I hope you now have a better understanding of the posts here.
?There but for the grace of God go I.?
I acknowledge you and I appreciate your post/questions. All postings have been gOOd pieces of the puzzle for me to put understanding together to see the clear picture. I 'thank you' all for bringing your subjective rhetoric to the puzzle table as it has helped me get clarity on how a beautiful person (I know) would take their soul over the threshold of RSE. I feel the cloud of saddness lifted off my Soul as I feel and fill myself with my own compassion.
Furthermore, for the paths of fire that I have walked in life (your quote, 'been deceived by someone') make RSE seem like a gentle lamb. All energy of abuse comes back to bit the abuser....including JZ.
After reading the following...A LightBulb went ON...I GOTTA IT! May blessings of life come to us all.
'The strength of a nation derives from the integrity of the home.---Confucius
THE COMFORTS OF HOME
'We offten love---and cling to--that which is familiar. In studies of victims of child abuse, it is proved, time and again, that children view their abusive parents with something akin to worship and long to return to the abusing or neglectful parent even when living in a far more loving alternative home. This is, in part, due to the belief the child develops that he or she is responsible for the abuse; returning to it offers the opportunity to "get it right," in a sense. In part, too, the clinging to that which is negative and harmful is related to your comfort with the familiar; no matter how destructive, the familiar is what you know, and therefore, you cling to it like a lifeboat.
Each of you clings to something, or to many things, that have long since stopped providing you succor. Material objects, jobs, people...you hold on for dear life even when you are being battered,whether the battering is physical or emotional. On a conscious journey, the familiar unworkable, which I have already discussed, begins to lose its appeal, and as this occurs, you are given the opportunity to let it fall away from you. In this opportunity, however, you are also given the choice of clinging even more desperately that which harms you. What will it be? The familiar or the new? The hope or the despair? Becoming conscious means breathing deeply, and sometimes it means sucking in a hug gasp of air and then leaping into the unknown. Make the leap.'
Conduct of Life, Library of Congress-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lOVE iS tHE aNSWER--lOVE iS tHE oNLY aNSWER
ALL I CAN SAY IS, WOW!
Compassion, with all due respect to your personal life?s experiences, from your above statement, I am not sure if you really understood the ?destructiveness? or ?potential? destructiveness of RSE.
From this message board, it is obvious that RSE has destroyed the lives of many students and their families. For example, some students have committed suicide and some have become delusional with the teachings. Some have died prematurely as they refused to seek proper medical care due to their beliefs in Ramtha and his teachings that they can heal themselves without medical intervention. Some have become ill and ?created? medical problems from taking various toxic products recommended by JZ/R. RSE also promotes alcoholism (red wine), pipe smoking, gambling and Prozac, all in the guise of enlightenment. Many students have also become financially destitute as result of attending events and buying associated products, making unwise decisions based on Ramtha?s false predictions, scams recommended by JZ/R etc. By the way, this is not an exhaustive list. There is more?
From the above tragedies, RSE does NOT seem like a gentle lamb but it is a destructive organization, infectious and parasitic. I acknowledge that there are other organizations similar to RSE but we are dealing with RSE on this message board.
Compassion, the second paragraph of ?The Comforts Of Home? reminds me of JZ?s zeroxed teachings about one?s ?addiction? to the past. ?Make known the unknown!? Ramsters will be very familiar with that paragraph?
I have two questions for you that I hope you would reply:
Do you think that the participants here in discussing the ?past? about JZ and RSE are NOT moving on with their lives and taking responsibilities for their lives?
Is it possible that one can move on with life BUT continue to warn and help others here about the bitter or tragic lessons one has learnt from the RSE experience?
These questions are NOT coming from the New Age (or RSE) perspective that people create their own realities or are addicted to their past.
A lot of the things they come out with are pure fantasy and have no foundation in fact. When you become the observer you see what is in front of you. A normal person would say, "I see a chicken ' and an RSE person would say "I thank the lord god of my being for being the creator of my life and bringing this wondrous being in my presence as a gift of the divine. "
What a mouthful !!! I really enjoy common sense.
This is a website for anti RSE sentiment and anti cult. I really enjoy this site when it is not infested with spiritual ideas that are similar to RSE.
Question: Why did the chicken cross the road?
1st chicken answer: To GET AWAY from RSE!!!
2nd chicken answer: I FORGOT to CREATE my day...
3rd chicken answer: I was BLINDFOLDED and NOT FOCUSED.
Relationship with self = Me, myself and chicken...
This is as much sense as I got from typical New Agers/Ramsters' comments.
It seems that in Western spiritual philosophies (especially new age) the push is to cultivate more of 'self'. There is a whole lot of talk about creating or re-creating the 'I'. The 'march' which is promoted at RSE is all about that. "I have always been..." The Secret movie is promoting much of the same stuff.
The irony of these philosophies is that the more one follows them, the more one becomes separated from the whole; even though unifying with the 'greater whole' is what is often touted as the motive behind engaging in this line of thinking.
At the other end of the spectrum, there are the Eastern philosophies/religions; where the spiritual path is one of selflessness. There too there are systems/methods of creating/re-creating the imputed 'self', such as the ones to be found in Buddhist Tantric practices and the practices of Hinduism.
After coming out of RSE, I seem to be seeing a similarity in many schools of thought and that generally boils down to needing to change the way that one thinks or has chosen to live their life. All of them either push, lead or some how compel the followers to believe that there is something wrong with how they are and how they think.
The question is, are followers of any philosophy any better off by changing the way that they think so that they are in alignment with one particular school of thought; or are they simply more delusional because they actually believe what they have projected as their 'self's' reality?
I realize that some of the beliefs that I have held and hold; as well as some others that I have heard (even at RSE), have contributed to the concept of what I hold and project as my 'self'. If the realization is correct, then it logically follows that the whole idea of 'self' might very well be based on illusions and even delusions.
Getting back to your quote then; having a relationship with self may just be more of the very clinging to the familiar (in this case projected delusion) that Compassion has posted under 'The comforts of home'. There we are encouraged to leap off into the unknown (we all heard that at RSE many times-and it sort of makes me sick to see it again), but there doesn't seem to be any concrete evidence that this is a good idea. In fact most biological systems, of which we are one, are set up to prevent this sort of behaviour; its called fear (of the unknown) and in the human being, its called critical thinking (show me the evidence that the unknown is better than the known).
Those of us who followed RSE definitely did take a leap into an unknown. The evidence of what the result has been for many is born out in the posts of EMF, in the fractured lives of followers and in the perpetuation of suffering; and for current RSE followers, with a healthy dose of self-blame to go with it (You aren't dedicated enough).
More and more, I see the directive of promotion of self (especially if it is purely based on delusion); but however one defines it, as a sure fire method to perpetuate suffering within an isolationist's perspective. At RSE we were told time and time again to re-create our 'selves' because the perception that what and who we were just didn't cut it. At and through RSE, something in me left, was taken or just simply died...what ever that something was, it is gone and there is only a sense of loss; but for exacly what, I do not know.
Is it any wonder that I/we feel victimized by the likes of RSE; and resist anything that remotely resembles it?
Much love, unbound
Good point, unbound! Fear of the unknown is a healthy, protective and necessary human trait, in fact I have seen it elsewhere better defined as 'critical thinking'. I believe when it is put in that perspective, it becomes quite clear why you would not necessarily want to indiscriminately 'make known the unknown' the way we sought to while we were at rse. It sure is interesting how priorities can change, isn't it?unbound wrote:show me the evidence that the unknown is better than the known
- The Beatles
The other interesting realization is that if one does in fact leap into the unknown and re-creates them self there, doesn't it also follow that at some point that new self becomes familiar? Are we then to leap off into something unknown and recreate our selves again...and again...? RSE and similar schools of thought seem to think so. Isn't that just a little bit of an unbalanced way to live?
Or are we to be just like hamsters on a wheel; always running toward something but not really going anywhere? Eventually even that cycle would become known...and boring...and confusing...and dizzying...and then, horror of horrors, by the time one would think to get off of that thing, perhaps the mere perception of self has become so distorted that even a point of reference is difficult to see clearly.
IMO the statements, from the first post on this thread:
QUOTE: 'Law, not confusion, is the dominating principle in the universe. Justice, not inequity, is the soul and substance of life. Righteousness, not corruption, is the force that molds the spiritual government of the world. This being so, you'll find that all is right in the universe if you right yourself......'
are meaningless if not ridiculous.
It is not explained what Law, nor whose Justice is being referred to; and by the way...exactly what is the 'spiritual government of the world'...and who or what empowers it/them? If that's not spooky, what is?
These statements and similar rhetoric seem to disregard the fact that even if one chose to follow such a directive, that it
would require the habitual running/re-creating of self and internal spinning to cease before one could even hope to right themselves. Further, what if one has been conditioned/manipulated/brainwashed/coerced into alignment with a form of righteousness that has been molded and defined by corruption? Is that the sort of perception of the 'universe' that awaits them when and if they finally 'right themselves'?
Finally, lets make the assumption that at some point, some individual has actually attained a state where they are living by the 'Law', having renounced confusion and are upholding 'Justice' as their soul and substance of life; all in accordance with the 'spiritual government of the world'.
Would they not then be compelled to leap off into the unknown and give it all up? Wouldn't that be intentionally screwing up one's life?
Then if we negate these directives and schools of thought altogether, we are left to consider at least one other alternative. What about those who choose to live their life through expressing what they perceive to be virtues worth sharing? And what about they who simply trust that their personal definition of righteousness is enough of a guide to base their choices upon? Are they hopelessly lost and supposedly clinging to a familiar to the detriment of their own spiritual growth?
THE POWER OF A SINGLE THOUGHT ...indeed!
Much love, unbound
PS -- my sister and her husband have sold their home and plan to be in Yelm by Sept 1.
Part of the seeming complexity, and reaction, to her posts is that much of what jz says is from valid sources - and if not seriously twisted -at the least stated within an abusive context and environment.
To me, for instance, to not languish in forever blame of jz for all the evil she's done/doing is not the same as not holding her accountable for all she's done. It is essential for the abused to acknowledge the abuse/abuser -- It is essential for the abused to move on from blame and anger if the abused wants to live a healthy life. To me, to hold onto blame and anger is in fact to continue the abuse, now becoming self-abuse.
It is a fact that children of and women in relationship with abusers do stay/return to the known/abuser. It doesn't make it 'right' or healthy or helpful or anything positive - nevertheless it happens time and time and time again. How many have posted or read here who've clearly stated how many 'red flags' they've ignored or denied re rse and continued to return to events. It took me years from the first red flag to the last to leave.
I don't have the time energy or inclination to carefully study and respond to each of the previous posts, but it seems to me there is reaction to phrases taken out of context in equally circular arguments. Just because I've become "familiar" with not being in RSE or myself as no longer in a cult doesn't mean I have to chase my tail into new abusive relationships/groups/cults.
Finally - just because my father didn't moderator edit me as a child doesn't mean I don't have compassion for and can't sincerely attempt to understand the experience of women whose father did. Do I have to be in a tsunami to have compassion for those who were? Do I have to become a quadriplegic to have compassion for one who is? In fact, knowing someone who was so paralyzed has given me greater gratefulness for all I can do, helps me get over whining about a sore back or physical work that has to be done. etc.
i'm just not understanding the reaction to Cat's posts. Maybe there's something I'm missing or don't know. But so far I've read nothing here to make me suspicious of her or seeing reason for attack.